Mastering Team Building in the Mortgage Industry

Hello, my friend. This is Jeff Zimfer. Welcome back to another episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Before we get into this week's special guest, I have another win-of-the-week success story coming to you from one of our members' advising classes in this world where we are trying to scale our reach, get in front of more realtors at scale without chasing coal-calling paying for leads. How do you do that? You do it with a one-to-one approach, leading with education classes and workshops and events that put you at the front and center that build your agent attraction machine so you don't have to chase. And agents are drawn to you because of the value you're bringing them. Shout out to Wesley Terrell, who just recently did our AI workshop at a real estate board. So, Wesley is doing a great job in building his personal brand, his local market, and he's getting invited by their local real estate boards to come teach classes to real estate agents and get this. They're promoting the class for him. He shows up. He follows our proven system, our trainer approach to be able to be the messenger and share valuable content agents take and implement their business. But most importantly, he's building a platform that puts him in front of one to many large groups of agents at a time so he can apply the law of leverage and multiply his results and therefore get more conversations and get more relationships and referrals. And that's what we do in my class. So, shout out to Wesley. He just had 18 agents attend the AI on fair advantage. And Wesley goes on to say they were engaged. They asked lots of questions and it was a trial run for the new real estate board. So, here's what they said afterwards. Let's schedule some more classes. But they love the class. They love the content. And now, what's a Wesley's job? It's to get in front of these agents and do the follow-up to make the calls, to have the conversations, to ask the question about, hey, would you like some help implementing the ideas from today's class in your business? And now you have a reason. Now you have a purpose-driven platform that separates you from the rest that shifts the call dynamics from not about products in place at the beginning to, how do I help you in your business? So, if you'd like to learn more about what we do, I want you to check the link in the show notes. Our platform is called my agent classes. You can also go to go.myaginclasses.com. Check that out. Or the links in the show notes very simple. It needs to just tap on it. There's a brief video there that gives you an overview of what the platform is. And it also shares with you some other success stories from people who have been doing this for some time. So go ahead and check that out in the show notes. And now onto our special guest. Question for you. Are you stuck doing it all in your mortgage business? You do in the marketing, the originating, the processing, and you're wondering if you're burning out before you ever reach that next level that you know is there for you? It's common, right? Chasing deals into your pipelines full and then drowning in files. Well, new business activities dry up. But hey, what if growth, what if your next level of growth wasn't about more hustler grind, but it was actually hiring the right help at the right time? Welcome to the mortgage marketing radio podcast, where we help mortgage professionals get more clients, close more loans and grow their business. My name is Jeff Zinfer. Today on the show, we're tackling the question, how do you know when it's time to hire and how do you avoid hiring the wrong person? And to help us answer that, we're joined by Irene Dufert, she's a veteran originator and longtime coach who's worked with thousands of loan officers, team leads and branch managers on exactly this topic. So in this episode, we're going to talk about three primary things. Number one, how to know when it's time to make your first hire. Number two, how to leverage the disc profile. And what are the exact disc profile traits that make or break your next team member? And why most hiring failures start with you? Not the person you're hiring. We're also revealed the one mistake that keeps the loan officers stuck in a cycle of overwork and missed opportunities plus how to break free from that grind for good. So if you're ready to scale your mortgage business without sacrificing your sanity and stick around for this episode of mortgage marketing radio. Irene, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jeff. I'm glad to be here. Good to connect. You have been around for quite a while in this space and I've kind of watched from afar some of what you do. And so I wanted to have a conversation today because I think you bring a unique perspective and viewpoint to this industry, particularly when it comes to growing a team, managing a team. How do you know when you should hire? Because you've been helping people do that for quite a while. Yeah. Long time. I did it as an originator and I also did it as a coach for the last 14. How many people would you say roughly, whether it's group or one-on-one, loan officers, team leads, branch managers, how many people have you in your career you think interacted with at some level with a conversation that was coaching oriented? I would say at least a thousand. At least a thousand. So you've probably seen some patterns, things that people repeat clues if you will. So you've got a captive audience of loan officers at various levels. Some people have, you know, L.O.A.'s and various team members and some people don't. Some people are just, you know, the one or one person shop. But how do you know? Like, what would you see that the common pitfalls or mistakes that are repeated from somebody who doesn't have a team yet? Let's just say that and they're trying to do it all. The biggest thing is trying to do it all themselves and they're working 50, 60, 80 hours a week depending on how many loans are closing and it's that inevitable cycle. They go, they go get business, the business comes in, they stop going to get business and then they take care of the loans and then they have a dry pipeline again or a lower pipeline. I should say not all of them get a dry pipeline, but it can dry up pretty quick if you're not doing the activities that got you there. Okay. Okay. Do you think people put off hiring help longer than they should? Yeah. I do. And you know why I think that? Because I think they're afraid to put the money out and they think, oh, man, I have to pay all this money in an annual salary. But what happens is they don't actually have to put a whole amount of money in an annual salary. They're going to hire someone and they might be out a month or two at the beginning. But then if that person is the right person that they hire, that person actually ends up bringing more business, making them bring more business in because they're taking care of things that they were taking care of before. And so now they have more freedom to go out and get more loans coming in the door and bring more clients than that they can help because that person is helping them now. So where would you recommend in terms of units that somebody start to get really serious about bringing in help? I think it depends on the type of loans they do and it depends on their market and their efficiency. If they're able to still go out and get loans while they're doing that, great. But usually I see it right around five loans a month somewhere around there. They need to start really looking for someone because at five, they're pretty busy. They're doing it all and all the way up to processing and some of them even process their own loans. And so it's a lot to do and still go out and get business. Plus they're running their own business as well, the business the business end of it even. What's the first role in this may vary, but generally what's the first role I should hire for? A loan partner. And the reason the loan partner is because they need to be somebody that they can rely on that they can trust that will take care of things when they're out getting business and when they're out meeting with different people agents and people that can bring business in. What would describe to me what a loan partner does then? So there's several different models that they could do, but they could take the first call. They could make an appointment for the loan officer. Then the loan officer has a loan consultation with them and they can do everything else in the background. They can run the credit, get it all prepped, have the loan officer do the consultation, convert the buyer to say yes, I want to work with you and then take it from there as soon as the buyer is converted and they're going to work with them, then they get they'll finish up the loan application, all of the they get all the documentation, everything that is done from that point all the way to a contract. When the contract comes in, of course, the loan officer can look at it, review it, make sure everything is good, and then it goes and gets prepared for the processor. So the loan partner can do all of that. I know you and I have talked on our previous call about different profiling tools to identify the right person in the seat and you have definitely seen the stories and I've definitely talked to loan officers over the years about the people that they go through and how many times the first hire was the wrong hire. So how do we help avoid the wrong hire? There's a couple ways. There's a lot of questions that need to be asked. When you're setting up the ad that you want to put out there, it has to be the right ad that's going to attract the kind of people that you're looking for, and then when you interview them, you need to have a list of questions that you're going to ask them that have to do with what exactly you're looking for as a loan officer because if they don't have the right vibe, if they're not talking to clients the way you do, if they don't have the experience, they're not going to do you much good. Always suggest that people find someone that already has experience so that they can just come in, figure out, you know, you guys can decide, figure out how you want your team to work, what exactly you want them to do, and then they know exactly what to do, but they have experience. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack right here. My mind has got a few different questions. First of all, how do I know the right questions to ask? Well, you ask the questions about the type of person you're looking for. You ask questions about the experience that they have, go through scenarios with them, see if they really know what they're doing because they can say they know what they're doing, but if you test them on it, then it's going to be a much better fit for you. Yeah, often I've heard that, and I've probably been guilty of this myself, is when hiring somebody to perform a task, you don't have a very clearly defined process or method of operation, and that oftentimes is leads to being frustrated with the hire, but usually it comes back on you, the hiring person. I agree. 100%. I've done it myself. We've all done it right at some point in our careers, but what I've learned is that the first thing, that's what I should have said the first thing was when you asked me, because the first thing is clearly defining what you want that person to do before you even do an ad. You have to know exactly what you're looking for in that person, because they may be good at some things and not good at others, and so you want to make sure they're good at the things that you need them to be good at. So that's the first thing. Yeah, so you said experience, make sure they're good at what you need them to be good at, which comes back to experience, and then running them through some questions or scenarios. So I'm thinking, would you have them do like some test mock loan structure and setup, or like how would we test for, you know, understanding? Absolutely. I would have them do a mock setup of a loan scenario. What I used to do before I, you know, before I, when I was originating, before I became a coach or anything, and I did it for my own team, is I had a file back in those days, they were actually paper files. I had a paper file that had everything crossed out of it, and they had to do a test to see if they were good at it. And I remember I had this big old thick file, it was like an FHA file with the C in child support and all this stuff, and I had a processor who was looking for a job. In this case, it was a processor, and she came in from Las Vegas, and she came in and said, I'm looking for a job. I know you're not hiring, but I know what I'm doing. I can do a great job for you. So I said, okay, let me, you know, she was really looking, and she had just come into town. So she gave her this file, and I said, here, I'm putting this loan together. Can you put it together for me? She sat at my desk. I was right there, and she put the whole thing together in less than an hour, and it was this thick. And I said, you're hired. He was the best processor I ever had. Wow. That's great. She clearly knew her role. Yes. Hmm. One other thing should people do in preparing to identify the right person to minimize pain in the hiring process? Yes. So clearly defining the job position, making an ad that's attractive to the right person, meaning if you're looking for somebody that you don't want them to be, that you want them licensed, but you don't need them to know loans. I mean, to go out and be a loan officer, there's a certain types of ads that you can do. And I'm happy to share with people if they want to reach out to me, but there's certain types of ads that you can do that will attract the right person. And then talking to them, having the conversation with them, letting them know what you're looking for, asking them questions. You know, the best people ask questions, the best people in any possession, in any profession, they ask a lot of questions and they find out about people. Instead of just letting the hire talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, you ask them questions and then really listen for the answers and see if they're a good match for you. I would make a list of everything that's important to you as a loan officer. What do you want your loan partner to do, your loan assistant, and what's important to you that might not be important to somebody else? Are you fast paced? Are you slow paced? Are you do you want somebody that's really going to take a look at the file and earn the loan and really give it their all and really go through with a fine-toothed comb? Are you looking for somebody that's more quick paced? Everybody's different, Jeff, that's the thing. What they're looking for. Right, what's a loan officer's looking for is different. Yes. If I'm correct, you're a believer in the disc profile? Yes, I am. I'm certified in the disc profile and it really helps. It's only part of the equation. It's not everything. Well, a previous company I used to work at, they used the disc profile a ton in coaching and helping their loan officers identify the right role for these L.O.A.'s and other roles. Yes. And they had them take an assessment, a disc profile. I had a time. Would you recommend that? Absolutely. I do that every time and I've helped hundreds and hundreds of loan officers go through disc profiles. Probably thousands of disc profiles over the years because they were looking for people and I would help them when I was coaching them find the right person and I would help them by looking through the disc profile and it was so easy to use that as a tool. Yeah, let's break that down a little bit because I remember the person that I was working with, they were pretty adamant about if the person ranked in these certain categories such as, so it's the disc. It's the driver, right? The high, what's the eye again? The eye is the interact. Interactive. So the real people, person loves to talk, social, and then the S is like steady and then C is like consistent, right? Or conscientious. I forget what they are exactly. But I remember one of the red flags, if you will, and the colors, of course, the eye was yellow, the DD is red, etc. If the person applying for a loan processor was a high eye, that was a red flag. Yeah. There'd be on the phone all the time and real friendly and all that kind of stuff. I'm not going to get their word. Real chatty. Wanted to make friends and go hang out at the water cooler. Yeah. So what do you think are some of the, if we're talking about a loan partner, where they're, give me the quick hit loan partner. How would you identify their job primarily? Their job or their disc profile? Okay. No, their job first and then we'll break down disc profile. Yeah. So a loan partner would be, they could start at the beginning or they could take it as soon as the, the loan officer has spoken to the client and then they take it from there and they take it completely off of the loan officer. Their job is to make sure it closes. Absolutely. Their job is to make sure that that client is taking care of beautifully throughout the whole process that they feel wanted and cared for and they get the loan done efficiently. Okay. So that the loan officer doesn't have to worry about it. So a loan partner does interact with clients and partners. Yes. So we do want some degree of people skills. Yes, we do. So we want some level of an I. Yes. Absolutely. We also want some level of a D, right? Somebody who can be task oriented and get the job done. Yes. Somewhere not too high, probably a 25, 30 somewhere max out of 100 out of 100. Okay. Yeah. So the lower end of a D, but not so low that they won't get stuff done and they can't make up their mind about stuff because it's the driver mentality. So you don't want it so high that they want to be the boss, but you want it be, you want them to be a supportive driver, but a driver. And you want them to ruffle feathers and piss a bunch of people off your underwriter and others, right? I don't know about that. What I do want is for them to take care, good, great care of the clients and make sure that the underwriter and the processor, they're following up with them as well. Talk to the underwriter. So how would, so how would somebody know then? Let's continue that thread of the L of a loan partner, a L.O.A. Same thing, right? Long officer. Yes. They're interactive. Yeah. Yeah. Using the disk profile or what qualities or traits have you seen be best and you can do some ranking or whatever, you know what I mean? But just like how do you know when you when you've got a good loan partner personality wise? By looking at the personality test at the disk test. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm certified in three areas of the disk test, not just the DISC, but also the values and the motivators. So all three of them. And I never I don't like looking at a disk with just the DISC because that doesn't tell the whole picture, but motivators, what motivates them and also what kind of interactive skills do they have. And so if I'm looking at just the DISC just to make it simple, the D for a loan partner that that talks to clients and everything would be anywhere around 30 or less of a D, but not below probably between 30 and 40 somewhere around there. And then and this is the very general generalization, but the I needs to be above 50, but not past probably 65 or 70 because otherwise they're going to be chatty on the phone all the time. They're the life of the party. And so you want them to be friendly, but not overly friendly where they're constantly on the phone. Like a loan officer is usually a high eye. Yes. Yes. And then in S, on the steady, we want them up past 70 somewhere between 70 and 80 somewhere around there because they really want security. Want a they don't want to go out and get business. They don't want to be on the commission only. They want to have that security and steadiness. And they can calm people down. And you want someone like that on your team for the S. And then the C for a loan partner, I don't like to see a C higher than a 60 or 65 somewhere at the max. And the reason for that is because they will take forever to get anything done. They won't release the file to the processor because they're looking for perfection if it's too high. Really? So is it about perfection more than control or both? It's it's about perfection. Just they're they're concerned that they want to make sure that they're conscientious of perfect. That's right. Yes. You know, it's going to be really good. Yes. So and they can be overly focused on accuracy, slowing the file down. Yes. Even though you have to be accurate, right? I mean, it's an important part of the job. But some people are just too afraid also when they make errors, right? And then when you have to coach them on the errors and they just, you know, just friggin shrink. Yes. Yeah. You don't want them to be afraid to release the loan to the processor. The processor is the second set of eyes in my opinion. They're the ones that have to double check what the loan partner did anyway. So it's okay to release it. But the processor will let them know if there's something they could have done differently. Then they'll let them know and then they can do it that way next time. But they've got to release that loan. Otherwise, it sits on their desk basically and doesn't get to the processor in time and that's what holds things up. Okay. All right. So that's for an L.O.A. That was good. I'm kind of putting you on the spot here. So I appreciate this a lot. Let's say for processor, right? That's kind of a different profile. So again, putting you on the spot, but to what degree could you assign some profiling around the disk profile for a processor? Yeah. And so for the disk profile, it needs the red, which is the D. The D. It needs to be at least 40, 50, 60 somewhere in there because they're going to take control. Some processors have a really high D. And those are the processors that have a high D and a high C. Those are the ones that can be kind of nasty. They're like, get on it now. And they're not nice to people sometimes. And so that's not a good combination for processor. But kind of a high D somewhere in the 70, 80, D, but they can't try to take over from the loan officer. That's where you have to be really careful. This is where the other parts of the disk profile come in, the values and how they interact with people. That's why I don't like just using the DISC. But if we had to, that's where I would put them on the D. Yeah, I realize, again, this is very off the cuff in one dimensional. There are deeper aspects of the disk profile, which I agree. I remember going through those when I was going through some similar training. Those were actually much more revealing because like you said earlier, it's about what motivates them. Yes. And what their values are, how they do things and how they care about people and that type of thing. Hey, are you tired of cold calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere with my agent classes? You don't have to chase agents anymore. We hand you a done-for-you system of ready-to-teach presentations, plug-and-play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite so you can double your agent referrals in 90 days or less. Plus, you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members. I joined it because I was tired of doing business the way that regular loan officers have been doing it in my market, which is just making the core calls every Monday and Friday, checking with real estate agents. I had done that for years and it seemed like everybody was doing that. I need something different. And I wanted to find a way that I could work with the agents that I want to work with. I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience every month, every couple of weeks, where I could find agents that were like-minded and that wanted to work with me as well. So it's probably brought in. I'm just guessing here, but it's probably brought on in the three years I've been back with the program. It's probably brought on. I'd probably say about $40 million in volume since then, right? And it's led us some massive relationships. I wouldn't be able to do those things without this program. The value of these Friday calls are so incredibly valuable for all of us. I get upset if I miss it on a Friday. The cost of this program is worth it just because of these Friday calls that were on, where we help coach each other. We're just here to help each other add value to our real trip partners. Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting agent referrals on demand? Book a call at mortgagemarketing.pro or hit the link in the show notes now back to our show. Yeah. All right. So we got the D for a processor should be higher. I give me a quick, quick hit on that. I don't think it needs to be. It depending on whether they're talking to clients or not. If they're talking to clients, it should be like a 50. If they're not talking to clients, it could be very low. It could be 25, 30 somewhere around there. It's kind of in the middle for processors. And then the S needs to be pretty high like 1670 because they want security as well. They're not looking to go out and get business or anything like that. And we want to make sure that they're steadfast. That they're steady. That they can be counted upon. And then the C for them should be I would say somewhere between 50 and 75 see most processors will be in the 90s. I've noticed that. They'll be in the 90s. But they also take a long time to get things done. So that's why I always say as a as a loan partner, you don't want a really high C because it will take forever. But as a processor, I've seen them high in the 90s. And as long as they've got the rest of their work stuff together and they're organized, they can still take more time by having a high C on that loan and make sure it gets in right. Yeah, as long as it's meeting the timelines. Yes. Yeah. So and to your point about a C being upwards of 90% and that's because they're heavy on compliance. It tend to be a little bit more analytical, which I guess is a good thing when it comes to processing. Yes. Yeah. For processors, you want the C to be higher. For loan partners, not as high because the processor is the one that's going to take it, take the final thing into the underwriter, the final loan. All right. Let's, if we can, can we touch on motivations for a second? What motivates people based on? And again, this is all based on hiring. We know a loan officer typically is motivated by money. That's one of the things or competition. I wish I had my book. I'm looking over here. My three ring binder. I'd whip that thing out. It's been a couple of years. What's normally here is all packed up because I'm moving. I totally, right. And we should have should have let each other know I'm going to grill you on the disc profile. When it comes to, so I'm thinking about the loan partner L O A. We want them to, depending on how you pay them, right? I assume that if an L O A, you would, there'd be some kind of a bonus structure for them to motivate them. There can be. Yes. Yes. There should be a salary plus bonus. Not everybody agrees that a bonus should be paid, but I think it helps motivate them to do really well and to get get it in by the deadlines. Well, all right. Let's just say it's not money. There's other ways to acknowledge them or fulfill that values. Yes. One of my favorite things is just random bonuses. Even if you do give them a bonus, let's say they're doing a great job and you want to do something special for them. Something that matters to them. Find out something. I've heard of a loan officer that found out that their loan partner wanted to go to this concert, but really couldn't afford to go. So he not only got the concert tickets for her and her husband, but he also gave her half a day off. And it was a little bit of ways from their house, gave her half a day off and got a hotel room for them so that they could have an evening out to themselves. That girl will never leave him because she is so happy with him. There's been a bunch of different things like that. Another person bought something that they saw their loan partner was looking at online and couldn't afford it or didn't want to spend the money and he went and bought it for her. Just things like that that are random that show, but you have to know what matters to the person that you're working with. It really takes paying attention. And you can find out what really matters by having them take this disc and values the husband, right? Yes. The other thing that's important besides the disc, Jeff, and I know we hadn't talked about this before, but the languages of appreciation in the workplace. There's a book called Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Anybody who's married, probably heard of that one. Yes, for sure. I remember, boy, that opened my eyes. I think I read that in like 25 years after I was married. It was really great. It really did open my eyes about a lot of things that I really never put two and two together of why your spouse acts a certain way or wants us, you know, needs certain things in their lives of appreciation. But anyway, he also wrote it for languages in the workplace. And so I recommend that every loan officer take that assessment, have their team take the assessment. So when we do wow training, we give them the assessment to take and then we tell their loan officer, we give it to their loan officer so that they know what their language of appreciation is because sometimes we're talking in our own language and that person is not speaking the same language. And so if we know what motivation, talking about motivation, that's why I brought this up is if we know what motivates them, sometimes you give a bonus and sure money's great, but it would have meant more if you'd written them a really nice note or sent them a text or talked about how great they're doing in front of everybody else because that's the language that they speak. So there is different languages that they could speak and that's one of them. So it's not always money. No recognition, acknowledge me. Yes, time. It's another one. Yeah, acts of service. Yeah, it's so funny. Think about the disc profile. This is instructive. It was very revealing to me and you know, I'm 25 years married now. My wife and I, you know, thank you. We've had a few conversations about this, but one of the, I remember there was this time where when last I took the disc profile, I was high on the D in the I and I think the I was just a bit higher than the D and what my wife didn't understand was before she was aware of the disc profiles, like when I was in task mode, it was like get the hell out of my way, you know, and it wasn't and but as you know, people on the outside perceive that to be is, oh, he's being a real tool or geez, why do you have to be so blah, blah, whatever. And what they don't understand is like, no, the D, the high D has a task and come hell or high water. They want to complete that task. Yes. And they don't see that how their behavior, which their entire look is like, I'm just completing this task. I'm not trying to upset you or be a jerk. And they don't recognize that that's how their style and communication is coming off. Yes, that's driven. They're driven and they're going to get it done no matter what. Yeah. And so what you can learn as a result of that, both you and the other end of that is like, oh, he's not purposely trying to be a jerk and and and and trigger me and all that kind of stuff. He's just in his high D mode. And now when there's that understanding, I'm not saying you should live there. I'm saying you should also develop skills to be able to adjust your communication style because that's that's true mastery, right? Is when people can adjust their communication to better map to the person they're interacting with. Yes. That's the key. Yeah. And that's where that self self awareness comes in is when you start to realize that's why I act like that when I'm in this situation, you know, you know, it's interesting when people read their dis profile. I always say because the one that I give is like 60 pages, 70 pages, something like that. And I always tell loan officers it's a book about the person. So if you if you're doing it for your team, it's like they've written a book about them. And so have them read it first. See if they agree with it. Most of the time they do agree with it. There are maybe a few little things that they may not agree with because they're not self aware in some cases, but it really tells all about them. And it's amazing. If you look at that and read it, especially if you only have one loan partner and it's just you and that loan partner, you really should get to know who they are and become more aware of what's important to them and what motivates them by reading their dis profile. Yeah. And whoever's listening to this, you should take your own disc profile if you haven't. And it's if it's been a while, like a few years, you should you should consider updating it. Yes. Do you believe also, you know, how these personality traits, I've heard it said that these are relatively set personality traits. Do you believe that? Did you think that over time, people's traits can change? I think that they're somewhere set, but I think we can learn to manage according to who we're talking to. And I think that's why there is a primary. And there's one that there's two. There is one number that is your primary. And there's another number that when you're under the gun, when people are looking at you and watching you, you can adjust it higher low, depending if some people, if you look at them, they don't adjust at all. They're just pretty stubborn. They're going to do what they do. But some other people can really adjust between what's natural for them and what's adaptive. Yes. Very situational. Yes. And so it's a skill, I think. Yeah, it is a skill. And again, it's self awareness and it's understanding it's all about effective communication. And so back to my wife example, like I could continue to say, well, that's just how I am. I'm trying to get the job done, right? Well, that's not very empowering for her, is it? So I'm the one who needs to learn to adjust a little bit. Yes. Or communicate about it and say, I'm in tact mode right now. Right. Which is actually what I started saying to her. I'm like, honey, I'm not trying to be. I've done the same thing with my husband. Him and I both have taken turns doing that. Yeah. But it's cool too, because that can really minimize a lot of arguments and hurts. Yes, it really can. And having like a little trigger with the person that you're interacting with, whether it's your spouse or someone you work with, having a trigger word that you can say, just like saying, I'm in task mode right now. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm in task mode right now. Or you can even say it before you get to that point, I'm going into task mode now. And then they will know that either to leave you alone and let you get it done, which is what probably what should happen. But my husband and I do that sometimes I'll I'll say something or he'll say something when we're in the middle of something else, you know, like I'll interrupt him when he's reading something or something like that. And then he'll he'll just he won't answer me the nicest way possible, you know, the perfect way. And I'll and I'll realize that that's what it is. But he'll also tell me, I'm sorry, I'm just in the middle of this right now. Let me finish it. And then I'll you know, I'll answer what you're what you asked me. Yeah. So we become aware over the years. We've been married 45 years. So we have a lot of practice. Yeah. Two crunos to you. Thanks. It's pretty fun. It is. I just happened to I was digging deep here into my files. I was able to open up some a loan officer's a disc profile from back in the day. When was this 2018 that I did this one? I'm looking at this loan officer who was a good producer. But I want to we'll move on in a second. But I love the fact that the dimensions of value and motivation because this is for you listening or for who whom you might hire. We talked about are they money driven or whatever. There's these other categories, which I am now cheating because I haven't opened in front of me. But it's, you know, are they individualistic? Are they more regulatory? Are they aesthetic? And those may sound, you know, like very vague. But when you get into the disc profile and you read the definitions, like economic, just to be clear, once one thing I learned, economic isn't just about money. It could be about competition or bottom line oriented. Exactly. Too many people think that's just about money and everybody loves money. But that may not be their primary motivation. Yeah. And then there's this other one, which is high regulatory. Uh-huh. You have a strong preference for following established systems or creating them if not as. So if you're all about I need systems, have somebody take the disc profile and see where they rank on the regulatory scale of those values? Yes. All right. I know you have some resources you like to use for people. Did you want to share any of those when they're thinking about how do I get a disc profile? Yeah. So as far as a disc profile, you can go to the Tony Robbins site to get a dis profile. There's some other, there's a bunch of them. You just look it up and you can purchase a disc profile. I think the one with Tony Robbins is free. But you can just go Tony Robbins dis profile and find it. But that's a great way to get a dis profile. The other place that and you can put it in the show notes is the assessment for the language of appreciation. That one is a really, really good one. I think it's $15 a piece. And I would get, if I was a loan officer right now, I would get one for everyone on my team. In fact, I do have one for everyone on my team, my loan training, my loan team training team so that I understand what motivates them and to speak in their language. That's, I'm going to try and find that. Does the assessment, the language of appreciation? Yes. Language of appreciation in the workplace. And so I can send you the link if you want it. Sure. The good, the good old Google or AI will find it for me. Can I see it right here? Is that also related to Gary Chapin? Yes, he wrote it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. The five love languages. Okay. Cool. Yeah. I think that's a great tool. All right. So it all starts with that self-awareness. If you're thinking about hiring, get clear on what role it is you want them to do. And then you've got to get clear on who is the right person for that role. And don't, don't sacrifice the right person just because you're in some short-term pain. That's a big one, Jeff. That is it because you'll end up being in more pain. If you get the wrong person on your team, you'll end up being in more pain. But don't let that stop you. There are ways to find out how to get the right person. And so if anyone wants to reach out to me, they can schedule a free discovery call on call with Irene.com. Okay. I'm going to make a note of that. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Call with Irene.com. Let's quickly talk about then how you help people listening either get ready to hire, how they build teams, how they grow to the next level with people. What do you want to tell us about that? Okay. So we have a couple of classes that are live virtual classes that they can send their loan partners to. While training is the big one. That's the signature class that we have. And it teaches them how to wow clients so that they never want to go anywhere else. And we talk about self-talk, we talk about teamwork, systems processes, checklist is a big one, having checklist. And also just all of the things to communicate with clients, how to communicate, how to talk to people, how to read people, how to get over call reluctance. Like if they don't want to pick up the phone to talk to people, they can get over that. I'm not talking about co-calling or anything like that. I'm talking about their normal job. A lot of people don't want to get on the phone. And so we teach them how to get over that call reluctance because a lot of people have reluctance just to pick up the phone instead of texting or emailing, how to have a sense of urgency. All of the things that the loan officers over the years have told me that their loan partners need to have or they're lacking. Those are the things that we put into it and they can go to LoneTeamTraining.com to find out more details on each of the classes that we have. Yeah, you've got three primary ones. You've got the wow training, you've got client conversion training, which is I think a must for everybody because it's all about conversions. And then the loan assistant bootcamp as well. Yes, and that one is an online course for we originally designed it for loan assistance to come in. They learn everything from A to Z in a bootcamp about how to actually do the loans. Take a talking loan application, all of that. We have that. And then recently I started helping loan officers hire people. So I have a service where I personally will walk them through the process and help them by interviewing their final candidates as well. Wait, you will interview the candidates? I will interview the candidates. Yes, not all of them. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but that's great. Really? How many on average should be on a final list? Three max? Three or four. I've done three or four. I've done up to four. Okay, all right. So your website once again is LoneTeamTraining.com. We'll link that up in the show notes. You can learn more about the different workshops and trainings that you guys have there. But it's pretty in depth. Yeah, we worked real hard on it and it's been helping lots of people over. We've been doing it for six years now. But I'm starting to get the word more out about it because it's really sad when you have something really good for people and you're not letting them know about it. Yeah. And so I need to let more people know about it because it's a really good thing. It's helped hundreds of people. I think we've trained over a thousand people. Wow. Congratulations. Well, it's not something that's often brought to the surface because obviously normally what we see out there is, you know, the social media, how to build a brand, do video and all that fun stuff. Yet what I think is underserved or under-promoted is what you're doing, which is inside the business versus the external, right? How does the business run, the efficiencies, the operational structure and so forth? Because like, unless you have that right, forget about generating leads because they're just going to come in and die. You know what I mean? Or get lost in the system. And if your conversion isn't right, if your operations and your processing isn't right, then that's the that is the constraint. That's where the leaky bucket is. Yes. And that's what holds loan officers back from hiring a loan partner. Is they want to make sure they're the right one? It holds them back from going out and getting more business. Yeah. And it's sad to see that happen. There's no there's no reason for it and and I'll walk them through it. That's awesome. It's a great service you offer. I appreciate you being on today's show Irene. I want everybody to do this. I want you listening. You want you to check the links in the show notes. Go to her website. Check it out. Take a dis profile or assessment profile that we've shared with you here today. And we're going to put a link to your both your LinkedIn and your Instagram. Thank you so much, Jeff. I appreciate you having me on. What I want people to do is I want them to DM you on LinkedIn or Instagram and say, Hey, what was the one big takeaway you got? And what is the one thing you applied? Whether it's the dis profile, whether it's the appreciation assessment, whatever it is, and check out her free content as well. Irene, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate you. I appreciate all you do for the mortgage community. It's amazing. Well, you know, this is just it's a labor of love, right? We're just here to serve. Yes. Absolutely. All right. Well, listeners, you know what to do. I already gave you the instructions. Go do it now. And if like this episode, share it with somebody else who might find value in this. And I will see you on the next one. Bye for now. See you later. Okay. That's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes, your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to co call again, instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit mortgagemarketing.pro or check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage pros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.