121 Units. Half the Team. One AI System

Welcome to the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. I'm your host, Katie Shive. And if my voice or my name doesn't sound familiar, that's okay. I am doing a guest podcast takeover. So no, I'm not Jeff and no Jeff's not going to be joining us this episode, but I promise you're in for a treat because we have a great guest on today's show. So we are going to be talking with Abdel Kwatme. He is a top 1% producer with PR MG over in New Jersey. He is a team leader and a originating loan officer. He is coached. He is all of the things. And so we're going to dive deep today into his business on his systems, little bit of his story. And really how he has a top producer and an originating branch manager, how is he using AI and not just dabbling in it, but how has he personally incorporated AI in his own personal production, but then how has he systematically built that into his entire business process from his virtual assistance to his front end processors to his originators all from top to bottom. He is all in. We're also going to hear some really great ideas on how he is staying sticky with in person events. I promise that is one of the best parts of this some of the things that he's doing. I've never heard a loan officer do before. And then he's going to end the show with some really great advice. What's one thing that you can be doing today to lean into adopting AI to level up your systems and build in more efficiency and more opportunity for growth. So with that, I'm going to stop gabbing and we're going to get right into today's episode. Up down for people who don't know you, which if you don't know up down all of the links everything's going to be in the show notes. So at the end of this, you need to go follow every place that he is because he is somebody that you want to have in your ecosystem. But for people that don't know who you are, can you give us like a 60 second version of like, who are you? How long have you been doing this and let us know like just for frame of reference. How many units did you do last year? What are you on track for and just go go for it. Jump in. So first off, thank you for having me on. Appreciate it. My name is Adele Kuatme. I have with PRMG. We run our brand got mortgages. We've got two locations in jerseys several outside of the state as well. We did personally 121 units individually last year, just a hair under 40 million. Our team within our entire region for Jersey did well over 90 million and then some we have been in the business for eight years. So since 2018. So, you know, I always say it's eight dog ears because it's just crap that we get thrown at us and from several stuff. There's four right always like the pre pre COVID to pre COVID to COVID to post COVID to what I know as post post COVID. And we just we crank away right head down extremely extremely modern day driven approach. But we're also Jersey guys right and gal so so we're just what do we got what do we need to do. How can we get things done. How can we execute and that's kind of our motto right. Yeah. I always say I have three clients in my hemisphere in my position. I have my consumers obviously who are looking to buy a refi. I've got our referral partners, which is a spider web of you know real estate agents title attorney financial advisors. We just ran a pretty cool mastermind yesterday about AI, I know I should might know it's with you previously. And then the last and obviously one of the biggest ones are our loan offices right catering catering to our loan offices understanding that if you're a loan officer out there, you know, there's no one right way to be successful in this business. Which is just the cool part right. So you could be somebody who season for 20 30 years and running a business a very successful way. You could be somebody in the business for 20 or 30 seconds running a business a certain way. Kind of that happy meeting in between to right. Yeah. It's cool because I mean, I like how you frame not because especially wondering like it's it really is like a two zero and adventure. You know, you can just as you're saying you can build whatever business you want. That is the one thing I love about this industry is you can be as successful as you want. You can come into this industry with no background and be whatever you want and vice versa. So I know you have a background actually before you were in mortgage that you were in law, not as a lawyer, but in law firm in general. So can you talk about us like that's not a typical path. So what was the journey of going from having a successful career managing a law firm to well, I want to completely pivot and become a mortgage advisor. Yeah, so I love getting this question all the time right because and I say this is nobody in second grade walked up right during a career day and said that they wanted to be a mortgage guy or any frankly sales professional. We were always programmed my parents are first generation when they came here. So it was always like you got to be a lawyer, you got to be a doctor, you got to be whatever. And now obviously, you know, we're blessed to you know exceed that. So I originally was going to school at Rutgers, so Rutgers University, I met my beautiful wife there now 18 breaking years ago, which is. Wow. Congrats. That's the deal. That's that's yeah, I still don't know how she tolerates my shit, not me tolerating her. That's a whole lot of stuff. So we got freshman year of college, right. She was a soccer player and I was the gorilla, you know, juice head in the gym, which is kind of how we met. We were both going for political science, which is where I was going for the law route. I was always a good student. Thank God we're, you know, we're always knuckleheads and part of fraternity and the whole college jazz. Then she got pregnant senior year of college. So this is this is going back 2011 and you were like holy crap. All right, my whole life is going to change and all that stuff. We had been together at that time for about just just a hair under four years. So it was like, OK, well, it looks like we're we're blessed now she just turned 14. Yeah, so, but so we ended up we end up going that route and I had a choice right do I go to law school, which is the reason why I went to Rutgers because in Jersey, they have nominal law school program. And I had to unfortunately for go that side. Well, fortunately now and then and then actually go and run a PI for personal injury for several years. I always kind of was I guess regimented and being extremely structured and organized. And I quickly went to being the right hand right under the managing partner and I'm regimented. I mean, you know, just like you and I sometimes I text. How early do I text, you know, somebody, especially because we've got such a huge natural national reach. I always forget because I'm a 4 a.m. So when I text somebody, I'm like, I hope that I'm not texting them super early and I always have to like start out with excuse the early text, you know, because it's like whatever. And so I ended up going and managing this firm for quite some time. I was the liaison with the attorneys managing the attorneys. Did you file your complaints because PI so jerseys to your stature limitations. Did you get it done? Do you answer your discoveries? Do your motion? Did you prep for trial? Did you get your summary judgments and all that. So it's really well versed in that world. The goal was to eventually get back into law school. Right. Got it. Okay. There. The effort question time. The firm was literally ready to subsidize. And I actually ended up not going to school and getting my masters and recent compliance from my class state, which is another state university in Jersey. Still with the goal intention of now going and getting into law school. And then what started happening too is as we were settling a lot of cases, what do you usually do when you get a lot of money? You want to buy a house or about something of that nature. And I was generally the person that handed them off to colleagues and stuff with no intention of wanting anything to return. Just hey dude, like take care of that. And the common complaint I say this all the time that what makes us Uber successful in today's market and what many referral partners want is communication. And the common complaint I got was this person didn't get back to me. That person didn't get back to me. I'm still waiting to hear about, can you nudge them? I literally would find myself nudging people that you are the Texas person. Or just wild because communication is the one thing that you can absolutely control and own. And yet you think it's the easiest low hanging fruit. And yet you're absolutely right. So many people have poor communication skills, poor follow up skills. So you're highly structured. You're in a law firm. You have access to kind of liais between a database. There's already high trust between your team there. And you're doing lots to loan officers. And then I imagine you have this light bulb of like I could do it better. So let me go through them wrong. Yeah, pretty much. So basically it was like, well, I'm still stuck in being in this liaison. And frankly, I've got wife. I've got a kid. I could probably do this shit myself. I went to the class Monday to Friday took the exam Saturday past. And you know, ever since then, been with the same institution and all that fun stuff eight years now. So start off as an originator. And then very, very quickly, my mindset was I got a shift focus. And I attribute a little bit of luck to it too. As crazy as that sounds, but I ended up I was still at the firm while being an originator. As I'm sure many people who are stuck with their foot first. Unless your parents ran a business or family members ran a business or you got kind of handed a book of business. You generally sometimes start part time. And then you end up saying, okay, here's it. So kind of what happens. I go all in. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I kind of whisper back then, right. We always tell ourselves we're like, I wish I went all in. It's like, well, you know, God had it structured for you that you were going to live your life and do thing. And to your point, I was using essentially a segue from both sides of client database from the firm while simultaneously doing, you know, the mortgage side and real estate side. One month in July, I had six closings in one month. And back then, margins are a lot different than today. Like, hold up. There's something here, right. And I was making very good money at the firm. Yeah. I said, yeah, I'm going to dive in face first November of 2018. I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go all in. I've got a semi, you know, database over about a year and a half. We jumped in face first and then boom, COVID hit, right. And then that back then it was a wild, wild west. And it's a conversation now, because now we're back into the ebbs and flows of rates. Like slowly rolling down, put the international terminal, that will eventually subside, but rates are slowly ticking down. So now eight years later, I have a database to refile. Right, right. So I purchased money, heavy lender. I did not during COVID, right. Which is cool. It's like if you can build your business in the absolute downturn, which a lot of loan officers that are kind of in that 10 year timeframe of where you're currently at. I really think like it disguises the limits because if you can build and prove yourself in the hardest conditions. I mean, anybody could be successful in COVID when they had a book of business and you, I mean, you just like it's raining opportunity. And that's not been the case for so long now, which, you know, you kind of have that a side advantage of like, you know, sky's a limit. So what I know about you personally, because you and I have a personal friendship outside of this, you are an implementer. I mean, like you have an idea and like you take it to the 10th degree and like you've developed and executed like 24 hours post ideation. So I want to talk a little bit about your adoption for AI, because I think you really as a loan officer in this space, you are far ahead of where most people are in terms of not dabbling and chat GPT for, you know, a meal plan or, you know, a gym workout, but like you've all in incorporated it into your team, your workflow, like AI is embedded in brain. Oh, yeah. Like walk me through back to that moment when you realized AI is not a trend and how were you going to take AI and have it be a non negotiable for your team and your client experience. Yeah, I love it. So the way I always look at things right is my business from the beginning, right, when I went and said, I'm opening up my own branch. I'm going to do this. At the end of the day, everything comes down to profitability, everything comes down to efficiency operations and all that. So we've got a phenomenal team of offshore assistance that worked directly for me. Like virtual assistance. Yeah. And I always thought to myself, the hardest part when you worked with any employees in general, right, whether you're, you're C executive or whoever it is is kind of the okay, I want an employee to do something a certain way, but I don't want to spend the time to tell them what I want because I also don't know what I want. That makes sense. Right. So and it trickled down right from a $30 an hour employee to a $20 an hour employee to a, you know, affordable hour employee. Let's put that on the offshore and stuff. So the reason why I bring that up is I think it also like I didn't just dive face person to this right. I work through managing attorneys and telling them how we want to think structured in a certain way. So then switching it and managing employees right here and then going into offshore assistance to a point where I had seven and then over the last year and a half, we've cut it down to three because of the efficiency that I have trained my core ones on artificial right now going into AI. I don't know when the light bulb happened because I think like most of us you end up as many of us do start dabbling in certain stuff like let me play around with chat. Oh, I was introduced to this platform. Let me play with that. I was introduced to that platform right here out with that. And then in my opinion, you end up in a position where you're not really mastering any of that. You know, the jack of all trades of the master of none. And I think that's where I was like, all right, I'm going to somewhat and this might go against popular opinion and wherever the hell everybody wants to see recently with the news, but I've kind of gotten in with the chat, right? It was like the forefront with chat, CBT was kind of like there, but I use it more not just for like, hey, make me a cartoon image of this or to your point. Yeah, me a meal prep and make me work out and stuff, although I literally have a project for that that's there, but I started getting really fun into it where I'm like, hey, this is how I want this done. Here's an SOP in place right that is broken down because we're using the platform that records my screen with scribe or whatever is out there. And this is moving forward how I want it to be done. But I was doing the exact same thing for my offshore admins, right? And obviously what I started noticing is, okay, if I can train this regimented technology platform to do it somewhere, what I have found is when I came back and asked to do it again, it did it exactly I wanted it. Human error was when I gave something a specific task to do and I came back and told you to do the same thing a week later, two weeks later, you made mistakes. I said, okay, so there's there's there's obviously a part where I have to now get back into mix right and they don't call me the gorilla for no reason. I get very frustrated when I have gone and set something to you and I've given you an SOP break down the whole thing and you still mess up, then it's like, all right, now you're kind of wasting my time to an extent, Mr. And we've just we started just dabbling in even more and it starts I break my business down, you've heard me say a lot right sales service and support. So I started breaking it down from sales perspective into how am I going to use it for my B to B clients, how am I going to use it for my B to C clients, right? And then you break it even further. Mine is so embedded from an operational perspective, we're behind the scenes, right? A lot of our frankly letter of explanations that conform by fanny and HUD guidelines are being structured based on the conversation with the consumer, we're a little bit of a sprinkle of artificial intelligence. Our AI is trained on how to calculate schedule E and schedule C income calculations, which might not seem like a lot of stuff for people who are seasoned, but if you're a new originator out there, obviously practice is going to make perfect. But what if I gave you training wheels for freaking like you could probably ride that bike right now, you know what AI it's it's in my opinion, it's somewhat of a cheat code. And that's why we're seeing that, you know, younger generation in my unbiased opinion, having that upper hand advantage versus some of the professionals that have been doing it for 20 or 30 years, there are some that are absolute monsters. And there are a good majority like we've seen the exit of the business right like three quarters of it have gone and I attribute a big portion of that to technology on AI because they are having that failure to execute and implement while maybe some of the younger ones are like, I don't know any better. Yeah, so I think this is the way to go. And I love just to kind of reiterate what you're saying is it sounds like you knew the power and the potential of AI and you were able to look forward and be like this is coming like a freight train. How do I get ahead of it? And because you live and die by systems in your highly efficient, you figured out like I've got to implement all of this. But you didn't just execute overnight. So is it correct to say that first you looked at your current client and partner experience and you mapped out kind of systematically what are the different touch points and where do I communicate and where do the human element come into play. Now looking at that from tip to tail, how do I weave in AI components. Maybe that's taking over the, you know, the schedule, see like you talked about or certain email or a summary call is that is that correct on kind of how you approached it. Percent, I think it also gives you if you're somebody out there who stuck and you don't know where to start to great point to start in many different circumstances. But to your point, Katie, I think the biggest part, I get this question all the time, right. People come to me, they're like, where do I start? And I'm like, I really can't answer that question for you. What I needed to do as a professional is I need you to write down what you do on a daily basis, because you know, I do coaching too. Frankly, for our partners from nothing, right, just just a value offering. And I say, well, talk to me about your business, like what's your day look like, right, your calendars, your CEO of your life. And what does your day look like is your calendar integrated with AI and people are like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, again, no matter what platform that you had me say this all the time, right, with some of the organizations that we have, I'm like, I freaking hate when people talk crap about one platform or another. I just truly think you're not optimizing it to a certain way. That's my unbiased opinion. But I'm going to tell you, okay. So we can't debate about cloud versus chat GPT. I mean, I would, and I feel like I also have that itch where I don't want to introduce another platform to my system, because I can definitely don't. But check this out. So you got to write down what you do, right. And in my opinion, every industry, whether it's real estate, whether it's financial advisory, whatever it breaks down to those three core principles of sales service support, right. So if you're getting news in the client experience, I have never more been on the phone over the last year, since we really implemented artificial intelligence or business than ever before, right. Because a lot of people are like, whoa, you're going to lose that client. It's like, no, dude, I actually will sit there and be like, now I only have anything to do because the automation is there because the ops is there. I can actually pick up the phone. And some of it might be like, you've seen some of our stuff, right, with some of the platforms we've implemented. And it was literally as your point implements on 24 hours. But now I see it. Now I actually kind of like, like a kid, like enjoyed picking up the phone and be like, hey, dude, did you see what I just sent you. Yeah. And then they're like, yeah, this is crazy. I'm okay. Great. Well, do you have a couple minutes for me to explain everything to you. And then go, boom, mortgage coach, total cost analysis. This is your savings in the 60 months. This is your 15 year breakdown. This is this. This is that. The next one. This is a cost of waiting. If you don't buy with MBS highway. This is a real estate report card in the area. This is that. So and what's funny is I used to kind of have a lot of that stuff on like automated part where the admins did it. Cool. They got it. That means they're looking at it. Now I've actually been picking up the phone and being like, hey, did you see this in the clients are going to be like, I have no idea what I'm looking at. Perfect. That's where I'm here for right is to explain it to you. And then depending on my audience, as I say, what your preferred method of communication. One guy who had just got introduced yesterday from a referral partner who was at our event. She met with the client. And it's funny because my referral partners know how very modern day thinking we are. So they kind of warned me in advance where they're like, hey, by the way, just a heads up. He's a little bit older. So I'll know immediately. I'm still going to dial in my process because no matter what it's going to be done. But I'm also going to keep in mind that I got to be a little bit more forward thinking with this consumer and push in to want to come to my office and meet in person rather than just fire out or do zoom or whatever the case may be. Okay. That's awesome. So you know what I what I appreciate you seeing is I mean, we talk a lot. At least I hear a lot that AI allows you to have leverage. And I think that that absolutely there's merit to that statement. But I have also found that people that aren't as confident or proficient in using it. There is this expectation that just going to AI instantly like it's going to be perfect. And I would imagine you've had to refine your processes and your prompts and some of your assistance over time. But with the goal that now it has has paid off for you that you're you're so efficient on the technical back inside that that has freed you up to be more one to one and build relationship, which is the goal. So my next question is I'd say a lot of loan officers. They're almost hesitant or you know, we don't know what we don't know. So when it comes to a new tool or a new workflow. So you know, we've just slowed down learn it, incorporate it. And for loan officers that are buried in their business. Sometimes we don't have time to do that. So how do you actually get your team to be all in as well. So that it's an all lift and not just you, you know, task mastering and driving this. It's a great question. Right. You know, the new tool that we just recently implemented right where I had texted you. I'm like, Oh, I know you took a little bit of time with the name of that. I'm going to show you a shameless plug housing link. If you don't use it, go look it up. Scott Nicholson. It's super, super cool. And it was kind of somewhat of a tool that to your point. I didn't really know I needed. And I was at a event for realtors that we were at. And one L.O. showed it to me. And it reminded me of a platform that I had seen four years ago. It turned out to be the same as that platform. And then I'm like, dude, you know what? I didn't need it four years ago, because four years ago, just like three years ago, just like two years ago, just like two years ago. Processes were different. Yeah. And we thought our shit was like bulletproof. Right. I think it's funny now as our businesses become more efficient. We're like working till the final hour to refine it, refine it, refine it, refine it even more. And I think the way that we do it, because remember, I'm a very heavy active producing originator as well on top of the area manager with my branches. So when I sit there and tell you, yo, dude, I started doing this. This is the feedback from the referral partner. This is a feedback from the client. And this is literally one of the reasons why we're either saving time. We're 210% now revenue year over years. If you're a business owner, that's all I need to tell you. Or you're going to actually wait. So what I like to do from my perspective is kind of be that guinea pig for my originators. And I say, hey, dude, I met this. It's working. Now I have four managers that are there to help implement. Right. So we have our growth strategy, who manages the admins. Our business development manager, who's hands on who meets with our originators once a week and checks in, how's everything going. We have our sales manager, who basically when you're issuing a pre approval and you have a sticky situation, and you need help, you know, switch it to a 25 year, which is a cool little trick. We just did on one deal that could not get approved that 30. We dropped the term to 300 months. Boom, a US proof. You have a sales manager for that. And then we have the ops, which is post contract. Right. Having that system and structure support, but I think it starts as us as leaders to be like, hey, I want you to do this not because I saw it at a trade show, not because I want something on a webinar. I'm going to dive in. I'm going to demo it. I'm going to build it in my model. And once I see that success, where I can kind of, and this is where I think you and I probably share. That's where we struggle. Our minds move at like 100 miles per hour. So I have to remember like other people may not be as proficient in it. And I need to accept that and also understand that that's a weakness that I need to improve on. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm working on it. I built it. It's there. I think it's at a point now where I can also assign it to an admin or to one of the LP ones processors. And they can now show the loan officers that this is what it tells Bill. I'm going to show you and we're going to have the four managers to teach you along the way. Yeah. Right. Well, that's that's cool because I mean, I always go back to, you know, tech without leadership is just noise. I mean, how many times you talk to people whether they're your referral partners or other loan officers. And when you start to get under the hood of what is your tech stack. It's like, man, we subscribe to all of the shiny tools, which don't give me wrong in their own respect. They're all pretty amazing. But you can quickly be on your tech stack and you're not executing. So I always advise like, hey, pair down and actually get really good at what you're using and then add on as you have the need or the capacity with your team. So that, you know, a lot of leaders and I'd be curious to your take on this. I think we, we go to the sales rally, we get on a webinar, we get amped, we see the potential, we implement it, meaning we pay for the subscription. And then we kind of yo, yo, our team, like we're going all in and then what do we do? We waterboard our team, we overload and then we just end up not using. So where do you see loan officers making the noise, like doing exactly what I had just said or what would you say to that? Think it falls under the leadership. It truly falls under the leader, branch manager, area manager up to see sweet executives and stuff. I'll speak on my organization, right? Pyram G. Pyram G is one that I think I mentioned I have only been with, but we've also been one where from an organization perspective is our role is to grab every potential tool there is, right? And introduce it to you guys. Now I think what we also have found to over the years is hey, by the way, we've also realized that there's a lot going on. And I think that's where as I'm sure most companies is we need to somewhat like refine everything we're still going to get you as access to the tools. But what we've started doing over the last two years as I know most companies have been doing is at our sales rallies, instead of bringing some of the phenomenal speakers that you usually used to, I'm seeing a lot of organizations highlight the originators that are actually using this stuff. We're instead of you bringing some of the awesome speakers that we've been used to for several years. What I'm noticing internally is companies are highlighting a modern day originator or somewhat traditional originator. And I have found that to be the most powerful way to kind of get that buy in because you're not hearing from industry expert who has some type of vested interest based on a platform or based on a coaching thing that they're doing. These originators are doing it on a day and day out. Or in the trenches with you. And yeah, I like that because I mean, I always call it the seagull effect. You know, you can bring in these thought subject matter experts. They come in with their brilliant idea. They fly over you, drop their white stuff. And then they leave. And you're like, cool. I don't know that I'm actually better for that. I'm inspired, but am I actually going to implement versus what your name is. Hey, this is peer to peer. There's a mutual respect because you the originator understands the pressure of all of the things, right? So that's really cool. I want to switch gears a little bit and now talk just into more of your business and some of the things that you're doing. So, you know, you've talked about some really creative events like renting out a gym doing manicures, which is cool, but very different and hosting even cornhole events. So that is a strategy. And I'd love to learn a little bit more like how do you think about proximity and visibility as a business development tool. Yeah, I mean, listen, we're always big on the hyper local market. Can we land throughout the entire nation? Sure. Can I land throughout all of New Jersey? Sure. But, um, which is the reason why we opened up two offices now in the same state, which is kind of like, why would you do that? Well, I have two strong presences in mometh county and ocean county. And I had one and my wife would complain because the office is 45 minutes away and I'm in the office till eight nine o'clock at night, frankly. So what do I do? We open up another office 90 seconds away from my house and it's across the street from my kids school. So now my wife can't complain. That's a whole other top or a different conversation. Now, from a visibility perspective, I think I want to say two or three years ago, probably three years ago, was where in my business social media was like the combo of top, like the topic of conversation. Right. Um, where I was like, you have to post, you have to your readers, you have to your combos, you have to your YouTube, and you were reaching from a such a huge wide net, right? We're selling it and you're hoping you're going to get the WWE audience, as I said, right? You're starting doing a lot of hyper local events, right? And it started with your typical cliche in person home buying seminar, where it was like $50 ahead. And as a reason why I put that and then you had a hundred people and it's five grand and then you're calling sponsors and you're calling this, you're calling that. And it's still a successful model. I just don't find it to be one where you're really, truly providing that consistent value, whether it was to a partner or to an individual consume. I think today's day and age, you're able to do that webinar style, which is what we've been doing consistently. Now we started doing a lot of cool, but unique stuff because it's a bell, you know, how I am. It's, yeah, can't we just happy hours and alcohol on. I'm trying to cut out booze, so I got to do better. So let's not do that. Right. But honestly, I'll be completely transparent. And of course, you're going to laugh at this is I literally used AI to be like, yo, what super freaking cool stuff. Can we do Botox events for realtors? We did the Manny Petty. We're working on doing a daddy daughter rent out a salon, dad's income, do their daughter's hairs. Like cool stuff like that. You can't freaking tell me that it's not going to you're going to send your husband, put him on a plane, take it and come, right. Because you're like, dude, that is so freaking cool. Right. So I think that stuff. And then obviously investing back into the community is a huge part. Right. We've got our got more just cares really to an extent, helping out, right. And it's also I've got two two kids, right. So I got to set that same example too. And if I can kind of use it at the same time where I'm doing it the same satisfying my need as a father, while also showing, you know, the outside community that it's not just money, right. It's not just not looking at the consumer or you as a referral partner, from a dollar perspective, those other business owners, which is where an estimate literally grew from those other business owners are going to flock to you. Because they're going to be like, dude, what are you doing? Right. Like we're seeing you everywhere. We're and it's I say the ROI, right. And it's not return on investment. It's, are you being relevant. I'm the presence and intimacy. So are you going to be really, can you relate to your consumer? Can they find you more or less everywhere? You're on the presence. And from an intimacy perspective, I'm not asking you to hook up with them. I'm asking you, can they relate to the content that you put out there? Do they feel like it's as authentic as it gets doesn't have to be behind a fancy green screen doesn't have to be in a podcast studio. Can you walk your dog and shoot a video and can I relate to you? Can you not have your hair perfectly done and in a bun. And you look like complete dog shit. Like I usually do have the time and still have the need to be like, great. Just took a dump. I got to shoot a video and educate my clients. Which I love that because as a brand new expert, I mean, my whole thing is you have to be relevant and you have to be natural. Like if there's not a currency between who you are in real life and who you show up online, like, I mean, we're in a trust erosion economy. Right. And so when people can replace themselves with AI where your voice can be replicated, your photos, your video, if you use AI to replace you, AI is going to replace you. So by you finding strategies different is better than better. Right. So finding the ways to stand out because, you know, I always go back to something that Gary V said where he said there are no niches. There are no original ideas like everything's been done. And when you look around you scroll social media and you look just especially within the mortgage industry, that's largely true. Like it's really hard to stand out. The only thing that hasn't done is you. So you like, I doubt like it would be impossible for me to just come and completely replicate your model because you how you talk your energy, all of that is your seek sauce. But I love that you're doing more in person events. And that's the other thing I would say is I'd be curious. Now with everybody having the same access to a $20 chat GPT subscription and this brilliant thought leader in their pocket, it's noisy. And so by you going, hey, how can I de-platform like how can I take events off social media and face to face is really cool. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Very neat. It's pretty cool because you kind of get the blend between everything, right. And I think in today's day and eight, you do to an extent, half the cater to that. Now you're going to identify a niche. But again, like I always say, what's your preferred method of communication. As I say to my, I think with a referral partner, it's the same way. What's your preferred method of us to engage. What's your preferred method of us reaching out and you can do a combo of everything guys, right. There's, there's no one right way, like I said earlier, to be successful. I think the one non-negotiable though is you got to implement these modern day strategies, right, with tech and with AI or it's, it's a non-negotiable in today's market, right. Just know it's the, it's the computer translation of what it was previously. It's the docuSign translation of when you used to wet side. It's the calculator efficiency. And this, this is one that I mean, we're seeing it already on the employment market, right. The market market making a dump and it's not because of inflation. It's mainly because of the adoption of these huge companies from an efficiency perspective too, right. Things are getting done. Things are being done faster. More efficient and the thing that robots can't take away from us is us. It's our personality conversation. It's our relations to people. Yeah. And having that your arsenal make you successful. And I think about that too. I mean, I was just talking to a group of realtors earlier this week and I gave the example of using AI to make a video, double of you or photos and creating social media posts. And that's fine. If that's your jam and you do that, that's fine. But what that video can't do and exactly what you're touching on is that video can't sit across from a wife who just lost her husband and is now having to make the decision. Do I sell the home that we raised our kids into downsize and to better financial strategy and less maintenance, but there's such a high emotional attachment and there's grief involved in. Like that's real people like we're in the people business and the mortgage in the home is just the the vehicle that you know we use and that's something that AI will never be able to tap into. So for people listening that are like thinking about AI and where we're headed, I always like to remind people of yes, AI brings an efficiency, but like you still have to have the heart and be very much involved in your process. Yes. Okay, so another another question I have for you is, you know, clearly you're a team leader. You are in the top 1%, you coach, you've been coached like you're doing all of the things that a top producer would do to get to where you are. And that's a hard balance, especially because you still have two kids at home. So what's one thing that you've had to give up and let go of to build that team knowing that you're one person and you you can't touch everything. That's a great question, which is very because I never gotten that. I think one is definitely the I think I said earlier right the understanding that I can't do anything. I can't I cannot be the bottleneck in my business and I need to accept the fact that I'm not going to be able to be maybe the first touch with a client. And my team is extremely regimented and structured to ensure that that client does not feel that as a disadvantage. But actually to an extent feels it as man, what a blessing. I mean, you've called me maybe once or twice a night and answer and it goes to my office, right? Like I don't have a wish. No, I've never called you and not gotten you, which is surprising. So challenge accepted. But you're next time I see your name, I'm available. But that's great. So a lot of times, you know, if I don't answer, it goes to my phone. So that was one thing that I had to accept, right? Because most of us will say, well, they can't talk like me and my originators can't do this. That was one big part where I had to accept the fact that I need to be able to delegate efficiently, right? But I also need to be able to train my team to somewhat be regimented to speak like me, talk like me, text like me, literally email like me, set expectation. We have a regimented post contract because I think pre sales. So I, you've heard me say this maybe several times, right? There's, there's, there's essentially like a four step process to a consumer experience. We first talk to them to them, completing an application. Again, we got an application that got pretty approved. They found the house or an offer. The offer got accepted to closing and then post closing. So I always think the first kind of like, or the first two experiences initial test pre approval, finding a house is kind of like your own personality, right? You're going to put the efficiency and put that, but the clients talk to you, right? Obviously, I'm in East Coast, Jersey. There's like three houses for sale, right? So the hardest part is I need to make sure that client, they're not going to give a shit about your birthdays and emails and stuff like that. They want to feel like they can have a conversation and vent to, right? Let's be honest, we are, I need to put mortgage lender, comma therapist, comma best friend, comma drink buddy, right? And my clients all feel that way, right? So, so that's a hard part where I have to kind of accept that I'm not going to be able to get to everybody, but I damn well will not ever let a day pass. It's in my calendar, 7 p.m. Mist calls and emails for me to get back. So I get notified the admins will text me and tell me, hey, don't forget to get back. And I literally go in my iPhone, click on Mist calls and I will text. Even if I'm like, did I call this person or not? Did I text or not? I will still pick up the phone and call them. You know, dude, I know we've been emailing back and forth. I know you called me. I missed your call. Did I miss anything? They're like, no, we already got perfect and it's funny because when I call them and they're like, yo, you already got back to me? Cool. All right, because they know it's coming. My fourth part between 7 to 8. I'm regimented in that time frame where I'm going to get back to you. So that was one thing. Another part was like, I don't make the initial calls to clients or partners. They will do the calls for me and then transfer the calls. That was a big part too, right? They're plugged in my calendar is extension of my calendar. Obviously chat gives me the reminder of a different platform text me and tells me they do too. But they are the first touch. So so you're someone out there. That's a very big test that I've learned because how many times have we sat there? We're in the weeds building a deal, putting a fire out whatever the case may be. And then you look and you're like, I forgot to call that client at three o'clock and it's now six. That client, especially if it was a consumer direct client, that client's left. You lost. Yeah, or you got a bet for forgiveness or you got to go back to your referral partner and say, sorry dude, I got busy. Yeah, that was you shift where I'm like, all right, I need to build out a regimented approach. We use countly like I know you do and all that automation. But it still loses the human element, right? Remember whether people are talking directly to you or they're talking to an assistant for them to call. Transfer them over and you speak and stay on the call to take notes. That was the old approach, right? We use ring central. They would stay on the call. They would transfer. They would take notes and update the CRM. We don't have to do any more because the call they reported. Now the transcriptions going into the CRM. And it kind of works off of the basis of that, but I think you really need to be one to constantly innovate, innovate, innovate, innovate, innovate. Just when you get, just when you get comfortable with your process, right? The workflows change the technology change. There's constant disruption. And I think that's hard in our industry because we're wearing so many hats. You know, the loan officer has to prospect. You have to keep your deals going through the current pipeline that you need to nurture your past clients and you're, you know, all of these things. And so to add in there, I've got to be a thought leader and an influencer and learning AI and it is a lot, but that that's kind of just the nature of the beast. But what I hear you saying is you adapt to a growth mindset. You are constantly figuring out, okay, how can I be better? And knowing that, you know, it's not going to happen overnight. But you're making these micro tweaks that, you know, you didn't have to just incorporate everything all at once into your, you know, in one day. You're like, you're constantly pushing that that on the low forward. So for someone listening right now, let's say they're a loan officer and they're grinding in a tough market because it still has its own challenges today. And let's say they feel behind on tech or maybe content or relationships. We've touched on all that. What's one thing that you tell them to do first, like not a list, but like what's one thing that you could tell them to do. Listen, I mentioned it in passing earlier. The first thing you need to do sit down, grab a pen and paper and write down. What does your calendar look like on a day to day basis, and then break it down again into the core principles of sales service support. I will say it to I am blue in a face because you will break it down. And then now you identify where from a sales perspective, where your lead sources coming from. You might think that real estate agent that you think is super loyal to you and you could run model latch on them and find out. Damn, they hit that oil right or you sign them up on list reports where you sign them up on home reports and find out like shit, they're cheating on me. Because they're just close to transaction at once you three main street and then it used me and they were on the buyer side. That is ways that you use tech guys like that is ways that you got to be smart, but I can't sit here and tell you to go and download or subscribe or whatever it is. I kind of interact with model match and MBS highway and the supports and mortgage coach and up list and this and that. And that's funny cake because that was how I was before was I would spin out so much shit. And I'm like guys, before I can even tell you because you might be a very big consumer direct driven professional right and I'll be completely honest, I would maybe recommend you to a different manager within my ecosystem. That is extremely consumer direct that is going to be a little bit more on the cost efficiencies. It's like a click and you're quick to convert which I track to, but I'm not that master added what I'm kind of building out is like I want to be in your face right like I want that belly to belly conversation. I want you to feel I want you to see a six to 280 pound gorilla in front of you who's talking with his hands and having conversations with you and showing you that I really give a shit and there was empathy behind a bad situation or a divorce or you have a kid. And a big part Kate and I know you're really good at this like me is we do our research before we go in the mean right before you a man which is why like 20 seconds late which bothered me but we had a good financial advisor to dudes we had met my boys did my boys my own officers did a post on social. Hey got more you just seen is looking for financial advisors do you guys have any recommendations what do you think happy yeah less or a potential financial advisors colleagues one of them had reached out to one of my originators and said hey one of me sure. I always have my loan officers is tap me in right get me involved because I want you as an originator to feel the support and I invite i'm going to be biased here and say a lot of loan officers don't get that right you're in many instances sometimes competing with your branch manager yeah or you're in many instances just like this fucker I haven't talked to him in like two weeks yeah that approach I think is huge then you break it down to service where you are in your business you have to get involved in calculating your income right. involved in drafting letter of explanations do you have to get involved and now again we're not going to take away the huge element of it but how long did it take us before to calculate a schedule E on a property when a client had seven properties right right really I got a rental minus expenses plus plus plus took a long time. now we built it out where it doesn't really have to take time now check your work right just like when we are kids right we're talked to do math with our fingers and I still do it to his day my daughter you know messes with me all the time where I still do my math and seven are a close okay but you're not there you go it's I get the answer and I'm no longer allowed to do homework with her by the way because I think it was about four years ago where I did the homework for her and it was all wrong like the answers worked for us. like but the way to show you work yeah so I got an advance from doing her homework which I'm not complaining about and then the supports I guys social media I Katie I don't know your take I despise video avatars I think it is I think again and and some people might use it in work I'm not a fan I think that's when you're really like hey bro I'm so freaking busy for you that I don't have the time to pick up my phone issue a personal customized video. I mean I yeah I have the same sentiment you know I'm not an originator and I but as a brand strategist when I come in and I look at that like again going back to wear any high trust poor environment just in the industry and then you add in the layer of social media you add in you know different demographics and ages you add in AI like it is a uphill battle to establish trust and credibility. All you know on the line so now when I look at my key I already am going into the gate not trusting you as much and if I look and see that your content is an AI video that signals to me that you don't have the time or the care to record a video yourself or maybe you're not confident enough to lean into just the arms and the stutters I'm like but that's how you are in person and I want to establish trust. I want to see that like you're picking up kids in carpool like that's just it's just what you see is what you get so I would be with you in that same philosophy now there are people here I'm sure listening that use AI video very well and it works for them so I say lean into what you're doing but tread lightly understanding that you know if the lip sync is off or what have you you could lose credibility in the problem with that is 9 out of 10 times you're never going to know that somebody stops following you or isn't going to send you. The lead because they just silently exit so I would wholeheartedly agree with that okay last question we're going to land the plane has been a great conversation okay so I'm asking this as someone who has I've like watched you in your business up close worrying conversations every week pretty much what are you building toward like let's envision five years from now what does the version of Abdel look like that you're that you're wanting to build. Dude I can't tell you what the vision looks like in five minutes because it's constantly changing perfect. I think for me my core focus is on efficiency from a revenue perspective and really from how much and I don't know if I got to figure out a phrase for this but how can I dummy down. My mind moving at 200 miles per hour right and it's such a challenge yeah because I think I don't expect everybody to wake up at four I don't expect everybody to just move at the rate of just whatever right and there might be people moving 100% fast enough to freaking love I think it's just. Having an open mindset to being like okay just put this whole SOP together and now this platform integrated with this one so I don't really need that one anymore so I got to now do it and I think that's what we've been really picking up a lot of steam with our originators with our partners is yo guys I don't want you guys in the lab. I want you guys to do what you do best which is talking to clients and originating I will be the person in the lab still originating yeah. Still creating fun environments like we have environments like who's going to be the Delta the office who's going to stay later in the day although I've gotten it at that so yeah. My ass on that right finding that there's there's no work like balance whoever says it your full shit and if you do call me right now I will buy whatever you're selling yeah yeah and you're in the mortgage space and you're you're slaying loans like there really isn't a such thing as a balance. It's it's tough and I think we've really gotten to a point where that client experience is pretty awesome we've been spending a lot of time with just as you know right while show you like digital digital brand strategies that we've been doing for partners frankly out of out of the kindness of the relationship and the value and then I'm like alright you guys like this cool. Cool um are you guys going to be able to do this on your own yeah just like a dentist right you got to go and get them now you're going to go Katie and Katie and tell you guys how to actually do it yeah right and that's kind of where we've been seeing a lot of success and speaking to the masses more of like I want my time and energy to be built on that while I keep building efficiency tools for my originators right without them having to somewhat figure it out yeah. Yeah like guys like I got it and some don't use it a certain way and I'm okay with that right show me what you guys have in mind especially from those two verticals right of the pre contract side um show me what you got because dude I might pick up a nugget or two and again I don't care for any business for 20 years or 20 seconds we didn't all grow up the same way right so you might think of things and I'm like two guys freaking awesome you know what that's a great recommendation I might do it for my business yeah because you might you know the qualifying once you're on the answer hang up call again leave a voicemail right I used to call the first time a little voicemail and so I remember hearing that saying whatever it was my oh that's actually a great idea or call yeah then well second time don't answer then taxi and be like hey is this Katie yeah small tactics and having that love to always look to I need to improve right every weekend day yeah I mean it's I mean it's the cliche of be better every day but when that is your kind of your ethos in one of your codes um you know you see that and that's those micro tweaks that you know okay what's one takeaway that I can implement what's one thing that I can be working towards and then having the goal to just live that as a lifestyle if that is your core code then you naturally will become that because that's what you're doing so I love that well thank you for I hope that anybody listening got lots of takeaways because there's a lot that you're doing question for those that's heard something on this podcast and they want to dig deeper with you what's the best way like Instagram email like how could somebody get in touch with you yeah I mean it's not hard to find us online but Instagram got underscore mortgages got mortgages.com you can email me directly got mortgages at pure and g.net again I I'm an open playbook guys right Katie you know I share stuff all the freaking time yeah what do you think we we even run a small little core group here in Jersey loan officers the hero it's about eat or not different mortgage professionals as well from high-level executives to day-to-day originators and we're just collaborating changing ideas you know there's there's no as I said earlier on the pod there's no right way to do business yeah and if if you're not successful or even if you're not I still want to hear what you're doing because I might pick up a nugget or two or give a recommendation or two that I didn't get when I first started on it I like statement and again it is a cliche as well but better together right I think a lot of times people you know I don't feel so much in this industry but people tend to like go inward and they protect their secret sauce and actually if you have a heart of service which you very much do we really are better together it's like hey let's collaborate let's share so we'll put all of the links below on how you can connect with Abdel as you heard him say he's up at 4 a.m. he's east coast time so if you text him or email him we're not going to spend a number if you reach out to him you most likely will get a response by the end of the day so thanks so much Abdel for joining us and we will be on next episode so make sure to like follow and subscribe so you never miss an episode and we'll see you on the next one thanks guys