A Candid Conversation with Barry Habib

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, everybody, Jeff Zim for Host of Mortgage Marketing Radio. Welcome. Thanks for tuning in to this podcast. We've got a great one for you today, just a few moments before we get into that. I'm holding in my hands something that I'm proud of that was brought to my attention by somebody recently I was speaking with. And 10 years ago, I actually self-published my very first book. And as you may or may not know, I came out with a book last year that's called Disruptor Die, How to Survive and Thrive the Digital Real Estate Shift. And this book that I originally published 10 years ago is called Instant Referrals for Mortgage Professionals. It's a proven system for capturing more agents, closing more loans and becoming the go-to lender in your area. As I open this up and I look inside it here, the copyright date on this hold on, you can probably hear the pages turning. It's 2011. 2011, I wrote this book and the whole premise and idea for this book was to share my stories and experiences and system that allowed me to go from zero to 50 million in three years or less as a mortgage originator and figured out, discovered through sweat equity, through trial and error and through continuing to put myself out there and learn. I was able to kind of perfect, if you will, a system for becoming known in my local real estate community, meaning in front of local real estate agents, title, escrow, home warranty, be building my own personal brand within the local real estate community in Orange County, California, where I was originating loans for over 10 years. And what this is is basically my journey, my story written down in paper, how I did it, how I worked through it all, kind of the process, you know, and I walked loan officers through this. Well, fast forward now today, this is much of what I do here today, and this is still incredibly relevant. As a matter of fact, I'm looking at the quote on the cover, which is from Sue Woodard, shout out in respect to Sue, when she says, if you want to quickly and easily capture real estate agents, instant referrals is your ticket in today's market. And then if I flip it over, I've got some quotes from some other people, assistant vice president of sales from to the editing national title. And a bunch of quotes on the inside of this as well, testimonials that is if you all a success stories, right, from Michael Citron, Blaine Brunson, Bob Garrett, Darla Watts, Bonnie Oliver, Cheryl Sheesby, Lee Williams, on and on and on. And all these are all personal stories, like in this one, and for example, Lee Williams won't consultant from ICG loans in San Francisco. He says, we secured 15 agent meetings, three new referral partners and $990,000 in originations within 30 days. These are top producers who would normally brush me off and never return my calls. We could have gotten, we could not have gotten those results so quickly without your system. And that's just one example. And why am I talking about this? Well, here's why. I did a podcast a week ago, it was just me. And if you listen to that, you know what I'm talking about. Bottom line is if you are looking for help in attracting, capturing and converting real estate agents, having better, more productive real estate agents as referral partners, adding more purchase loans to your business and doing it without chasing coal, calling door knocking. Let's talk. Every week myself and a small elite group of loan officers meet and we hold each other accountable. But we also work. We work on projects and initiatives. One of the primary things we work on is getting in front of real estate agents. And we are doing that using an updated version of the system that I wrote that book on 10 years ago, right? Some things have changed. The means of which of how we reach out to agents, you know, communicate and get in front of them. Some of the tools have changed, but the principle remains the same. The principle is get in front of agents at scale, add value, drive conversations. Matter of fact, we had a call this morning. And one of our pro members was on there, Sean Kisler. Sean Kisler did his very first class at the end of his class, then the very next day, he got a referral. That's why the book was titled Instant Referrals. Because if you apply the right process and systems, right, and you follow the ground work that's been laid out for you, you literally can get instant referrals. I know the title can be a little bit misleading, but it's true. Case in point, Sean Kisler. Hosted a YouTube for real estate agents class yesterday and got a referral. One of our other pro members, General Davis, did the same class. She's been with us for part of our group for gosh, well over a year or so, maybe even two years. What she shared on today's call was she did the YouTube class, agents loved it. And she made a good point is she said she doesn't even have a YouTube channel. Imagine that teaching a class to agents on YouTube and you don't have a YouTube channel. What is that point? The point is you don't need to be the expert, you are a messenger. And what you'll hear us talk about somewhat on today's episode is that you can win by becoming more magnetic. How do you become more magnetic? You show up and you pour value into people. You look for ways that you can make a difference that's not based on making a sale. And there's few ways you can do that more impactfully than showing, teaching, sharing someone how to do something they want to do. In this case, it was a YouTube class where agents wanted to learn how to level up, get started with YouTube and all that stuff. Well, we have a turnkeyed system that helps loan officers do that. The YouTube class is just one example of over 12 classes linked in Google My Business, video marketing, Instagram, how to get your buyers off or accepted, how to get more listings. I mean, you name it. The list is always growing. And if any of that sounds interesting to you, here's the next step you can take to check it out for more. Go to this website, mortgagemarketing.pro. Orgemarketing.pro. It's a brief video put up there. Quite honestly, the video is out of date and I need to update it, but that's just me being completely transparent and honest with you. But what you'll see there is a summary of kind of what we do. And if you think it's for you, well, then love you to take the next step. Risks is low, but the reward's high. So mortgagemarketing.pro mortgagemarketing.pro.com, that's where you can check it out. OK, now to transition to my special guest this week, I am thrilled and honored to have Barry Habib here. I think last time I talked to Barry, it was about three years ago on the podcast and of course, a lot has changed since then. I thought it was time that we have revisited the conversation. Now, this conversation is different than most of the conversations you're used to hearing from Barry. As you may know, Barry, of course, is an expert when it comes to forecasting mortgage interest rates, understanding housing, inflation, et cetera. And we spend the last three to five minutes of this interview talking about that. So if that's why you're here, well, stay tuned and that'll be handled at the end. I thought it would be appropriate or useful to have a different conversation with Barry because he recently wrote a book and it's called Money in the Streets. I read it and I was fascinated by Barry's story of his very humble upbringing and the stories of sacrifice from his parents and some of the hard roads that he had to go through and the challenges and lessons. And then as we begin to, in this conversation, unpack his journey from being the son of immigrants who didn't speak English and had their own challenges with that to also losing his father when he was eight years old and the challenges that included and his journey from there and how he grew and evolved to what we see him as the person he is today. I think you'll find this conversation interesting and impactful and hopefully you'll not only get to know Barry maybe in a way that you haven't known him before, but also maybe extrapolate and pull some life lessons out for you here that will hopefully you can take with you in your life, your relationships to make a difference. That's what this is all about. And of course, if you are interested in any of what Barry has to offer to help you become more educated, professional, help you level up your conversations, your knowledge level, and improve your sales. There's a couple different resources. First of all, the book is on Amazon, Money in the Streets. Second of all, if you are not yet a member of MBS Highway, you should definitely check that out. MBShighway.com. This is what some of the best in the country use to stay informed and be educated and to really do the best job they possibly can for their clients. And then most recently Barry came out with a certification, which is a certified mortgage advisor. And you'll hear him briefly describe that at the end of our talk here today, but that is another option for you if you're looking to really get some both foundational level of market knowledge, right, training, understanding of an economics, bonds, personal wealth creation, technical analysis, interpreting reports, understanding the central banking and the Fed. I mean, it's just one hell of a platform in terms of becoming knowledgeable and educated to obviously help yourself but serve your clients. And that is called the certified mortgage advisor. And we'll put a link to all this in the show notes, like I said, but you can find that at becomecma.com. Okay. So, once again. Incredible conversation with Barry. Enjoy this so much. And if you liked Barry before and appreciated who he is as a human being, I think you'll have a whole new perspective for what a quality person he is. And I consider it an honor that he took time to have this conversation with me here today. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Barry Habib, welcome to the show. I am so glad to be here with you, Joe. Thank you so much for making time. I know how incredibly busy you are and so I'm always grateful for the time to be able to chat with you. I'm trying to think, last time I had you on the show, it's got to be three years ago, roughly. That's been a minute. Been a minute. Yeah, things have changed in that minute in so many different ways, right, in the world. But anyway, let's get right to it. The reason why I wanted to have you here today is you came out with a book recently, Muddy in the Streets, very intriguing title. And I want to unpack some of the stories and lessons that you share in that book and probably have a little bit different of a conversation with you than a lot of people typically have with you. I mean, let's face it, right, you're kind of like, what did you win, the crystal ball award, right, for forecasting rates and all that kind of stuff. So a lot of people come to you for that, like markets and rates. But I want to have a little bit of different conversation. So I appreciate your willingness to do this. Money in the Streets. What does that mean? What's in that title for you? Yeah, well, first off, it's always easy to be with you, brother. You're a good friend and you're a good man. You do a lot for the industry and so I'm always happy to do things with you. The other thing you mentioned that was kind of just interesting is how things change. And it's always something for us to remember because if you look at our lives and you look back two years ago, three years ago, even one year ago, is it the same life that we had? Things do change. They're very different. So as people that might be listening to this and predominantly in the mortgage industry, but any industry, don't think that everything's the same for your customer. Don't think that things are the same. Things change. So it's always important to keep in touch with them because you may be able to help them through those changes. They might not have reached out to you to tell you about those changes, but you can help them with the change. Money in the Streets is something that a lot of people that have immigrated to the United States. So retire and move. Now, I'm first generation born here. I'm fortunate and blessed to be born in the United States. But so many people who have heard about the promise of America and how great of a country it is. And thank God it really is a great country. They come here from all over the world and they hear about how America is such a rich country. And it's got so much opportunity that either the streets are lined with gold or that there's money in the streets. And it's something that my mom would tell me when I was a little boy about kind of almost how ridiculous it was to believe in that. It was kind of almost funny, but it's sad at the same time because when they came here, my parents were very, very poor. They had nothing when they came here. And they really struggled. My dad, who was an international journalist, but did not speak English at the time, spoke 10 languages. Well, nine at the time. They learned English, but nine different languages could read and write in six. And my mom, who had to be pulled out of school when she was a young girl. So she never learned to read or write because her mom was very ill. You know, back in those days, they said, ah, girls don't have to go to school. What are they going to do? They're going to go to school just terrible mentality, right? And so she had to take over like household duties at a young age. So she never really learned, formerly had to read or write, but she still manages to speak seven languages. Well, six, and then she learned English later. But so they had to humble themselves. My mom worked in a sweatshop. I got a picture of one over my shoulder just as a reminder always of, you know, where we come from. And stifling conditions, you know, sweatshops for those who don't know. You know, women who are, you know, sewing dresses together, you hear the roar of the machines. And it's very hard work for not a lot of money. And my dad, who was in this position of being a journalist and covering different countries and languages, came to the United States, had to humble himself and literally had to work at a hot dog place. You know, so it was a very different life. And when they came here, they really didn't see the abundance that everybody was talking about in America. They didn't really see that money in the streets. And so as we'll talk about, as I understood a little bit more about opportunity and seeing opportunity, seeing opportunity that everybody can miss or very, very few people can see. Best majority of people just pass by. Learning the skills, how to see that. And then understanding that you can, you can take those opportunities. You can do good with them. And the rewards that you can get had me actually before my mom passed away, my dad passed away when I was a young boy. And my mom, she wasn't very old either. But when I sat with her, I said, you know, mom, you were right, there really is money in the streets. You just have to know how to see it and how to pick it up and do good with it. But there really is. There's opportunity everywhere. So I was glad I was able to have that conversation with her. So Jeff, yeah, that's, so the title of the book is kind of just a, an acknowledgement to my parents, to all the people that have come here looking for opportunity. And for those who are here, that can see the opportunity. Wow. It's obviously very personal for you also. You mentioned something just now. And also in your book is identifying opportunities as a skill and what I, what I gleaned from learning a little bit more about you and your background and stuff and how you kind of came up and stuff in the book is it seems like you have this, this well-homed skill to identify opportunities. And I'm just wondering like, I was, I remember reading your book in the story like even when you went back, you know, when your dad was, you know, having the, the heart attack situation and you went back, right, to say goodbye and you had this intuition. And I'm just wondering like, do you think that is something you were born with? Do you, do you think you have a natural inclination or intuition to feel, notice certain things that some people don't? I think we all do. I think every one of us does, but it's only natural for us to quiet those voices. You know, we want to talk ourselves out of things, you know, how many times is there a good idea that you thought of? And yeah, you say, oh, maybe not or I'm, you're a little afraid to do that or you're insecure about it. I'm not saying you should chase every wild idea out there, but opportunities are about seeing things that I call in points of friction. So when there's something that is a point of friction, something that's could be better, most of us what we do is we bitch, we complain, somebody should fix that. If we can possibly make that somebody who fix it to us, then we can have explosive and exponential growth. And I've really discovered that over and over, but much of it comes from trusting our gut. And that's one of the most important lessons I learned in life was trusting my gut and the story that you talk about is, you know, I don't know, you're going to bring this one up. But so, you know, my dad had a heart attack and I was just a kid, I had no idea what a heart attack was. And he survived it. He was in the hospital. So I don't know. Maybe a heart attack wasn't that bad. I didn't know. But I remember going to the hospital to visit with him and he seemed okay. And you know, I remember as a family, we left and we went to the elevator and there just was something, I don't know what it was, that said to go back and see him again. And so Jeff, I was a young kid and I just ran, you know, like being yelled at, you know, pretty much for doing that because there's a little kid running down the hall of a hospital but I ran back into his room and, you know, it was just for a minute because I was in trouble doing it, right? And I just waved and, you know, said goodbye daddy, you know, and that was the last time I ever saw him. But you didn't know in that moment. Of course, I didn't know. I thought that, you know, everything was okay, but I just felt like I had to do that, even at the risk of getting in trouble for it, but it's a lesson I learned early on as really to trust or got, you know, if you really feel something deeply that you should follow that. Our forces that are in this universe that are much bigger that we just don't understand. You know, I oftentimes use an analogy like this and say as smart as we think we are, just because we can't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And the analogy that I've come up with that I like to use is, you know, I, you can have the smartest dog in the world, you know, I had a freaking golden retriever that was just so brilliant and so smart, I thought he was a person sometimes, but if I show him an Excel spreadsheet, he's not going to know what the hell it means. Sorry. Just because that dog doesn't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or can't do things or doesn't have forces, just because we don't understand things that are in the universe doesn't mean that they can't be very powerful. And I think that if we have the ability, even if we don't fully understand it to tap into it, that we should follow that. So trusting our gut, trusting our intuition, which you started off answering this question that I'm answering in a very long way about, is that the skill that I have? No, it's a skill we all have. And it's something that we just need to listen to more. We just quiet it. We just talk ourselves out of it. We just, you know, don't trust it enough. Yeah. And if it's for good, if you think that there's really possibility, certainly research it and follow it, but see those things through. I'm curious, by the way, thank you for sharing that story. I'm curious then when that happened and obviously your dad passed away, and then you're next the very next day, by the way. You were next day, wow, geez. You were left at home if I'm correct, it was just you and your mom. Just being in my mom, yeah, my, mostly, so my, my parents were much older when I was born. My dad was almost 60. My mom was more than 40 and now today I hear about that a lot, okay. But back when I was, oh yeah, Warren, that was not, that was not something you saw. And I kind of just slid in under the wire, bro. I made it right before birth control was, was available right before months before birth control. I, I was conceived and right before abortion was legalized. So you talk about sliding in there, right? So, um, so the thing of it is, is that, you know, my parents made so many sacrifices to allow me to have opportunity and I, I want to make the best of that. I want to honor that, you know, and I've been, for whatever the reason is, I've been given a chance here, I, well, let me, let me ask you, I stuck in through a small crack in the window. Yeah. You're a miracle. We're all miracles, right? We're all miracles, but I want to try and make sure I make the best of that. Well, I'm curious, like when did that click in for you, the sacrifices, you, you articulate them a bit in the book. But when did that click in for you, that the difficulty, first of all, that your parents had, right? Because this is eight when you're, when your dad passes on in your home alone, so you don't necessarily perhaps, you know, conceive of that. But was there a moment or something that happened when you're like, it, the lights went on, you're like, wait a minute, holy crap. Like my parents sacrificed like crazy for me. Well, that happens. That happens for all of us all the time, you know, um, oh, I mean, I wouldn't say for everybody. Well, um, you know, there's a lot of memories that I have that are hard to even talk about, you know, the, like the time my mom would come up the stairs one time and, you know, she's had a tough day of working and, and like the grocery bag breaks right as she got to the door and, you know, and she broke down and cried and I'm like, oh my god, you know, it's like, you know, these are times where you, you know, you, you, you take a step back and you realize that, you know, that you have to be empathetic and you have to, to, you know, I was just a kid, but, you know, I had to realize that there's a lot that's going on behind the scenes that I didn't really fully understand, but that I needed to try and understand. Well, in some ways, did you have to, you know, quote, grow up faster because it's, we had to grow up faster. I mean, geez, I had to, I had to perform duties like, you know, even going through the mail and then just trying to, you know, make, try and make sense of what all this adult stuff meant or even in the car, but, you know, I had to take on, take on responsibilities that my friends didn't really have to. So, and it's not just me, so many people go through this kind of stuff, you know, so, you know, I get it, I understand what they go through, but, you know, I had to realize that the young age that there's a whole different world out there, you know, I remember going to see my mom where she worked, and, you know, I was a kid, I would go there a lot of times because I wanted something, you know, as a kid, but I would see how hard she would work and all the other women that worked there. And, you know, it stayed with me, so, you know, you appreciate these things, you appreciate, you know, the sacrifices that were made. For you then, because of that situation, you know, forced to grow up fast and stuff, where you could then, did you become like the scrappy entrepreneur, paper routes, whatever, selling bottles, I mean, I don't know, right, did you like find those different ways to try and make money? Yeah, yeah, I did, I did, I mean, I was a kid too, so, you know, I was lazy as a kid, like a lot of kids are, right? You know, kids are like this late, you know, like, so, but then things just, just started to change, where, you know, I started to, as a kid, I, you know, I did your, you know, delivery routes and stuff like that and they worked in a butcher's store and, you know, so, yeah, but I was kind of entrepreneurial, even in college, I, I was able to get like these calculators that everybody needed much cheaper, so I was able to pick them up cheaper for everybody and do good by them, but I was able to make something for doing it and it was a little extra money that I didn't really have, so everybody benefited, right? So it was a good thing I was doing and I was benefiting myself, so then, believe it or not, I started selling housewares and items like that out of the trunk of my car and making extra money doing that and then, you know, and I talk about this in the book, but one day I saw somebody that was doing something similar, but it was with stereo equipment and I saw what he was doing and I could certainly feel for him because I know how hard it was and I felt like he was really giving these people a good deal. So I like, I supported him and I unexplained, hey man, that's a really good deal. He's probably getting it really inexpensively and live, so I helped him close a sale. He was like so appreciative that, that act of kindness, you know, I didn't want anything for it. I just, you know, thought that he was doing good and I wanted to help support him. He actually repaid the behavior to me by teaching me about instead of housewares, you should sell stereo equipment that way and, you know, as a 20-year-old kid, I turned it into a business, I got all my friends to do it and it became a business that I was making for, you know, for somebody in the early 20s, a good amount of money and it allowed me to look at other opportunities, believe it or not, in real estate and, you know, one of the time I was 23, I started taking all the money I was making and buying different properties and I noticed that, you know, where I was in New York City in Brooklyn, New York and I traveled all over selling stereo equipment, the property values in New Jersey seem to be disproportionately lower than property values elsewhere. I would ask a lot of questions. I like talking to people, I like asking questions, you know, we learned so much, right? All of us are like a book. And if you can read someone's book, not literally, but talk to them, there are pages within their book that you could benefit from. And I started to understand a little bit about how, for whatever reason, New Jersey properties seem to be to me undervalued in a bargain. So I started buying properties there and then they started to catch up. And so I started doing well and that led to getting into the mortgage business because, you know, after doing a few mortgages, you know, all of like six mortgages I've done now, I'm like an expert, right? But like all young, all young people, you know, you think you kind of have it, you know, kind of figured out, right? Yeah, I got this. Yeah, that yeah. So I decided on a whim, probably very foolishly, to get into the mortgage business two months after my twins were born. Oh, really? Wow. Dan and Nicole were born. I got this. I could sell stereos out of the trunk of my car. I could do anything, right? Same thing. Jeff, it was very rude awakening because nobody wanted to talk to this young wet behind the ears kid and trust them with a transaction that was going to mean what they were going to do for their income, you know, a real term meaning, you know, but so I said, okay, well, I got that failure is not an option. I can't this is not something I can fail at. I've got two young mouths to feed. So I said, well, I'm going to just talk to everybody I can talk to if a realtor won't talk to me because other people do need mortgages. And at night, I wound up knocking on people's doors. I went door to door and asked people if they wanted to refinance or if they were going to purchase a home. Now, some people threw me out a couple of people called the cops, but my third week literally in the business by third week, I wrote 16 loans that week. Nobody had ever done that before within the company back then. I'm sure people in the industry had done that, but in our company, nobody had ever done that. And they're like, who is this kid? And I just told them what I was doing. They said, you're crazy. I said, I know, but it's working. So like you said, failure was not an option. That's the place you know, I want to share a quick thing. So in the book, you mentioned, this is relevant for those listening in my audience who, you know, as you know, in the mortgage space, you know, one of the people we go after is realtors to get referrals and relationships. I love that you shared. I think this is really actually a pretty cool tactic. You like busted out a picture of your twins. Absolutely. Because you know, the thing is like realtors aren't going to trust you. You're brand new. And what do you want to tell what you said? I would show realtors pictures of Dan and Nicole, these little newborns. And I said, I have to do a good job for you, because I can't let them down. I'm going to do whatever it takes. Right. And I was I was a good kid. I was, you know, and and a lot of realtors who were who related to me as maybe their son, you know, they kind of took me under their wing and they and they gave me a chance and leave me. I didn't let them down. Of course, I did whatever it took. But you know, I think if you are vulnerable and you're open with people, you know, funny stories. The first mortgage I ever did was so I started getting into real estate, started buying homes, flipping homes, I started doing all this stuff. Well, there was a there was a guy that his name is milk knock bar and and milk was just a really nice man and and he purchased a home from me that I was flipping. But but I was, you know, I really cared. You know, I wanted to do the right thing for him and you know, I made sure everything was perfect for him. I really helped him and he came to like me. You know, it was just we was a transaction. He liked me and and I said to him very honestly and vulnerably said milk milk. I just got into the mortgage business and I don't know exactly how it all works. But I'll get the answers for you and and would you do me the honor of being my very first mortgage client. And I said, you know, I promise I'll do everything I can to make sure it's good for you, you know, and I'll get all the all the answers that I don't have. And he was like, Barry, yes, he says, yes, I believe in you and and I'll and he gave me the chance to be my very first mortgage client with his purchase of the home he was buying for me. And and so to take it even to the next step. So when he closed, I sold him stereo for the house too. So so that's a true story. God's on his truth story. They're going to need a stereo for this new house. Right. That's right. So it's awesome. But what a wonderful man to get me that chance and trust me. So so yeah, yeah, that was that was my start in the mortgage business. Well, and I want to hang out here for a moment in your start in the mortgage business because I think it's useful. This is again, it's context that people may not attach to because all we see is you here today now, right? Who you are on the stages and the platforms and all that. But we didn't see you coming up. So let's let's do this for a moment. Walk me through briefly. Like what would a week and average week look like a Barry in the field? I mean, you used to present you would go into real estate offices and basically present, right? Oh, yeah. I would. And you know, Jeff, I like to think I'm the same person. You know, I don't think I've changed that much and still, you know, I really try and stay very grounded. Yeah. I never forget where I came from, which is why I keep pictures of where I used to live and where my mom worked. And you know, just it's it's you know, that's that's cool. I am very grateful. Yeah. For having some of the things that I've been able to experience and do. But back then as an originator, so we used to do a lot of visits in house. And that was important. So I always tried to bring something of value for them while other people were bringing donuts. I would try and bring something that they could use to help them close sales, whether it was real estate market related, interest rate market related. But I would try to find those points of friction. You know, what was the problems that they were experiencing at that time? And if I could address those and quickly talk with them about it, they really appreciated that because I was trying to help them. I wasn't trying to buy their business. I wasn't trying to win favor. I was trying to help them. And they would oftentimes say, well, can you can you explain that to my customer? Because they really need to hear that. And even if I couldn't do the loan, even if it was to help them get a listing, I would do that. I would always go the extra mile. And then it became, well, can you tell our office? Now, I wasn't a speaker. You know, I'm 25, 26 years old. I don't know what the heck I was doing. But I tried to seize the opportunity. And that's what I think a lot of us don't do. A lot of us say, well, yeah, I don't do that. I can't do that. I'm afraid to do that. Yeah, I was scared to death to do it, Jeff. I was, you know, my first year as a professional speaker, I used to throw up every time before I spoke. I mean, now I've had everything happen to me. So nothing phases me because everything bad that could possibly happen has happened to me. So it's fine. Okay, I've been through this before. You know, you're doing this for almost 30 years as a speaker. Did I really just say that? So yeah, everything's happened. But when I was first starting out, I was, I was terrified. But I did it anyway. You know, because I said, this is an opportunity. And here's the thing, if we wait to get really good, you never get really good. The only way you get really good at something is to suck at it first and learn from it and keep doing it. Right, right. So it's okay to suck because that's part of the process of being really good. Amen to that. As a matter of fact, you wrote this in your book. I love this. Yes, try, suck, reflect, learn, try again. Yeah. Yeah, it's with everything. You know, listen, there's a lot of things that I suck at right now, but I continue to try and do good at it. You know, I'm, well, I tried yoga. I really suck at that, but I'm trying. You know, it's embarrassing how bad I was, but I'm trying. There's hot yoga, by the way. Oh, geez. Oh, my God. Just go for it. Don't you? Yeah. Well, yeah, I tried a 90-minute class my first time. I talk about being ambitious, right? Goodness gracious was I humbled. But, but yeah, but in anything, right, in anything you want to really understand that part of the process of getting better is humbling yourself and knowing you're going to suck, but you can eat that and learn from it because you can't just do it the first time unless you're extraordinary, lucky, or have this exceptional talent in something. First time, you're going to be like a, like a master at it. It's that's hard to do for most of us. For me, anyway, it's not. Yeah, that wasn't to be. So I suck that a lot of stuff first and speaking was one of them that I clearly was not very good at the beginning, but I kept on trying. Well, and see, there in lies a secret, if you will, right? Air quotes secret. Like we've talked about, you've mentioned a couple times, recognize an opportunity, take advantage of it. And I think knowing your story better now from the book and obviously hearing you kind of walk through this right now, something about you, and I'm thinking like, well, does everybody have this? Because what you have done differently, and that I think people who achieve at a high level do differently is they do exactly what we just said here is is suck, right? And be okay with that, but know that you're not going to stay there. You're going to continue to improve like in your book, one other thing real quick, and you can comment on this. That is mentioned, you know, you're incredibly wonderful story about Dr. Caputo, right? And your son with with the eye situation and all that kind of stuff. And for me, what I took away from that was, was that be so good at what you do that you can change someone's life. Yeah. And he was the one guy that you you sought after you found this guy that was so good at what he did as a as a doctor to help you, right, with the situation that you have with your son's eye, that he literally changed your life, your son's life. He did change Jake's life. Yeah. Jake would have been blind in that eye if it wasn't for Dr. Caputo and went to two other doctors that didn't do a very good job. And the window of opportunity was closing on us. And he was an inspiration for me to make sure that and hopefully to all of us to really be so good at the things that we're doing, whatever it is. And we have a chance to do that in the mortgage industry every day. We literally can change people's lives. If we look at it like it's a commodity boy, that's that's a hard way to go through this business. But if we look at it as an opportunity, and that's the way I tried to do it as a mortgage professional, as an opportunity to really make a difference in those people's lives, not by giving them a mortgage, but by giving them a tool to help their financial picture. And it's so crazy to me why so many of my contemporaries at the time were thinking that I was an oddball. You know, how do you ask these questions about their kids college and their retirement and their cash flow and their you know what their goals were. So yeah, what are you doing? And I would be like, well, think about what it is you're doing. You just met them for three seconds and you said, how much money do you make? How much do you have in the bank? Let me look at your credit. Explain that to me. You grill them. Let me look at your divorce and all the ugly, gory detail. So that's the hard stuff. This is the stuff they love talking about. So, you know, that's what I want to do. I want to help them. Sure, I'll do that other stuff to get the basics. Then let's get to the part where they light up and I can help them fulfill their dreams by not taking a commodity, but by using all the research and the knowledge I'm trying to continuously gain so that I can better position this financial resource to create the dreams that they want achieve the goals that they're looking to achieve. Yeah, and I think about that journey and you know, you're right. So many people don't approach this business from that angle. As a matter of fact, I was talking to somebody yesterday and in certain communities as well, in certain ethnicities, there tends to be almost an exclusive focus on rate. And I wondered how that man competes knowing that that's pretty much what the expectation is around that. And what made me curious is I read your story here. First of all, you answered the question I had in my head because I agree as well as like, can we literally do our best? It won't always happen. But if we start from the place of, hey, you know what, I can actually change somebody's life by giving them the proper financing mortgage solution overall life, you know, kind of kind of conversation that we have with that. But I was thinking like, I remember I used to, when I first came across my radar, you were at CTX or CTX back in the day. Awesome company. Great people. Those people are still in different places and they're all still great people. That's cool. I remember you were there and I used to, that's when I first consumed your information. And for me, that's how I wanted to be, you know, but I don't know, I often like wonder, is that just a conscious choice or it seems like that's a natural extension of who you are. And I'm wondering like, why most people don't do that as well? I think they're just, it's just fear. It's just fear. That's all, it's just fear. Because it's the way we all are naturally. There's a lot of people that have received all kinds of financial benefit. There's a lot of people that have received accolades and success benefit. They've achieved those goals, but but they're not exactly happy. And I think that that's because they don't have fulfillment. And for me anyway, and for most of us, fulfillment comes from helping others, doing good for others, feeling like what you're doing is really having a positive impact in the world. It's doing good. And those are the types of things that really round out the picture for you. And that's what I need to do. I think it's what we all need to do, but we just have to overcome our fear of doing it. You know, just people will be receptive to it. Not everybody. And don't worry about it. If they're not, they're not, you know, when I, when I, my son Dan is such a great juggler. My only claim to fame is that I taught him how to juggle. I can juggle three balls. Oh, a little bit. He's amazing. He juggles four balls. But there are actually people who teach you how to juggle juggling instructors. There are such people. So I actually learned from one when I started to do it. And the first lesson he gave me is to let the balls drop. I'm like, why am I letting the balls drop? He says, if you are so nervous about catching every ball, you will not be able to relax enough to be a good juggler. He says, you have to understand that sometimes the balls are going to drop and that's okay. And it's like that with the deals we do. Some of us beat ourselves up so bad for losing a deal. And we torment ourselves. These are not the things to be unhappy in life about. There are much more serious things to be unhappy in life about that God forbid could happen. This is nothing. Let the balls drop. Not everybody has to be my customer. If they don't want to do business this way, that's okay. I'll ask. I'll try. You say no, it's fine. You don't want to work with me. I'd rather you did, but that's okay. There are enough people out there. And believe me, there are that will want to do business in a way that brings you happiness, that brings you joy, that lets you feel good about your job. But you don't get burnt out. You don't get, we'll get stressed. We all get stressed. But you don't get to the stress levels that we'll get stressed. But what helps with alleviation of stress? It's reward. It's feeling good. It's those transactions where the customer is like, oh my gosh, thank you for doing this. The realtor is like, oh my god, I can't believe you did that feeling of knowing what good you've brought. That stress relief. It's not laying on a beach for half an hour. Because if you got stressed, that's what you're going to think about with your land on the beach for an hour. True. It's the compensating good things that suppress the stress, at least for me. Yeah, 100%. It's interesting. As you're saying that, I'm thinking you use the word fulfillment. Of course, there's lots of sources for fulfillment, relationships, family, all that stuff. But also professionally fulfillment. This is what I found as we mature through life, if you will, is that our fulfillment doesn't have to be tied to the outcome. It can be we can feel fulfillment by us just doing the best we can. You know what I mean? Because I know you do this. Like you're focused on being magnetic. You're focused on one thing you do. I got to give you a shout out and you say this in your book is this concept of being magnetic is make everyone you come in contact with feel special, smarter and better. And I would have to say of the times I've seen you engage both personally with me, but also with other people. I'm going to tell you, man, honestly, there's several times I come away from watching you and this isn't blown smoke. If you know me, right? I pause on that and I think, if you want me to be brutally honest with you, at times I've thought, I wonder if he does that just because, you know what I mean? He has to be on. He's a public persona, right? But then as I've got to see you and watch you over time, what I realize and heard other people say the same things about you, what I realize is no man, you actually generally want to people and you might even do it unconsciously, but you just make people feel good when they're around you. You know what I mean? Well, thanks. Thanks. It's completely selfish on my part because it makes me feel good to do it. So, you know, when hopefully we do a lot of research and learning constantly and gaining expertise in different areas, not all areas, but when the opportunity comes for us to help somebody through our expertise and, you know, unwanted advice is often resented. So you want to plant seeds when the ground is fertile, right? So those times where you can really help somebody who's looking for help, the grounds fertile, they want your help and you have expertise in that area, that's going to make you much more magnetic from an educational standpoint because subconsciously, when you have that, what they're saying to themselves, whether they realize it or not is, okay, so this is the type of person who exhibits qualities of hard work, research, they want to be, they want to gain a mastery of their craft and that means that they're going to do the very best they can for me because they want to maintain a high level of excellence because they demanded of themselves, they're going to share it with me. Your brain is already, is processing that whether you're conscious of it or not, so that person is more drawn to you. But then to make people feel special, look, everyone is special. Take a minute and find out why they're special. You know, ask some questions and dog to them and, again, take pages from their book that you can learn from and make them feel better. I mean, why not? Why make somebody feel bad? Why not? You will see what you look for. It's very, very easy to do. If you were to look around your room right now and look for green, you would be amazed at how many green things you will say. You'll be shocked. But you didn't notice them before. When you look for them, you see them. So if you're looking for good, you'll find it. That's the way you approach your relationships and you're looking for good things. Easy to make somebody feel better because those are the things that you're looking for anyway. I think that's a great takeaway. If I'm thinking about the context of the loan officer and they're having a conversation with somebody, prospect, realtor, whatever, and maybe we just need to change the pattern of how we're showing up to that conversation and just show up with this new frame, right? What can I find out that is interesting about this person? What can I learn about this person, right? Instead of, as you said, you know, hey, what's your rate, all that kind of stuff, you know? It's one thing to be selling them. And of course, there's a time to be selling. Of course. But we should also be learning, right? Because how can we best service them or sell them if we don't really understand what their needs are, what their goals are? And not always going to tell us right away. That's why you have to ask those little deeper questions, two questions I love to ask are, you know, after we've talked for a little bit, I say, well, what are your thoughts, you know? And then I just shut up and let them process that and give me their thoughts. I mean, this is the best part about it. This is where they can dream. This is where they can, you know, talk about what they like, what they don't like. You know, and then I want to understand what they don't like too. So I'll ask what their concerns are. That's an important one because that's where you get a lot of gold from. What are your concerns? Well, we'll really flesh out points of misunderstanding or what their what their trepidation is or what their hesitancy might be. And if they're not even honest about it or if they say, you know, I don't have any concerns, you should point out the concerns with them. Don't be on the opposite side of the table. You really need to be on the same side of the table. Looking at the transaction with them as if they were your parent, your child, or your best friend, and you're using all of your years and knowledge to show them what they should be watching out for. If you do that, if you're vulnerable enough to do that and put your commission as not what's important, but what's important is making sure they're fully aware of everything. The relationship changes. Yeah. Yeah. How the Cold War ended, just a very quick story is that, you know, Reagan and Gorbachev, we're having a tough time in a meeting and Reagan actually gets up from the meeting and walks out and nobody knew what the heck was going on. He walks right back in, puts his hand out, shakes Mikhail Gorbachev's hand and says, hi, I'm Ronald, let's start over. What he asked Gorbachev to do was take a walk and the two men were walking now, but now they're not facing each other. Now they're walking in the same direction, looking at the world together and it began the way that they ended the Cold War. So we have to work with our customers, we have to work with our love relationships, we have to work with our families, our co-workers, try and see it together. And I think that I think that you'll alleviate a little bit of stress in your life by doing so. Yeah. That's an awesome, probably, conclusion for us to wrap up that segment of the personal story of Barry Habib. I appreciate you walking through that with myself and the listeners. I think they're going to be thrilled to hear that side that they don't know if they're good to see. That's awesome, man. I'm appreciative of the opportunity to do it. You got me a little emotional on a couple of those, but I was able to hold it together. It's funny. You talk about being magnetic or being different and so I'm just one of those guys who wants to do something different, long-form content. I don't believe that I have to create a podcast that happens in 20 minutes for somebody's commute because I believe it's good enough people will come back and finish it. Before I let you go, I know you're busy. Of course, we've got to do this because I've got you in this rare opportunity. Three minutes on rate, forecast, and inflation. How should we be preparing ourselves for the second half of this year and into 2022? I think housing is really good. There's a lot to talk about at Housing Bubble, but we have been and we continue to be looking at the main drivers, which is supply and demand and anything. There's just more demand than supply and we can go deeper on this another time, but I do like the housing market. As far as interest rates go, the interesting thing about interest rates is if they did go up and I'm not saying that they will go up in a meaningful way, but if they did, that actually helps the housing market because people have such low rates now and home prices have gone up so much that they will be less inventory on the market because people will not move because they'd be putting themselves in a position where they have a double whammy of higher price and higher payment because of higher interest rates. It will cause less inventory and be more supportive, not less supportive of home prices. The things about interest rates and inflation is that we are experiencing some inflation, but when you really break it down, it's areas that have to do with reopening, airlines, sporting events, things of that nature where we are seeing inflation. We're also seeing the chip shortage, which mostly comes out of Taiwan having a dramatic impact on automobiles. We're also seeing it in appliances, this at computers. If you took those aspects out and inflation is running at roughly 5.5% per year over year now, you took that out. It would be closer to 2%. You can't disregard them, but it is really in areas that I believe you will start to see a little bit of relief. As the Labor Day change comes from the pandemic unemployment assistance, more jobs will be filled. It will help supply chains. As hopefully this Delta variant doesn't wreak havoc as we start to get imports coming back online, that will alleviate not only supply chain, but also pricing pressure. The reopening will level itself off right now. People start for content, start for events. It's a little bit of a rush because it's opening. It will work itself out. When you take a look at the way stimulus has worked in the past, it's a femoral, so it wears off. We got 9.2% GDP in the second quarter. By the fourth quarter, it'll be 4% by the first quarter of Q2. It'll be 2% or less end declining because what's left is the debt and debt slows economic activity. I believe that we have not seen the lowest interest rates that we've ever seen yet. I think in 2022, 2023, we will see either recession-like or recessionary conditions, and I think that you'll see a 10-year treasury below 1%. There may be an opportunity, even for a short period of time for us to reach that. I'd be watching about 1.37 on the 10-year. If that holds, we make it a little slingshot, move lower. I don't know if we'll hit 1% there, but we're in a good interest rate environment. I know the Fed said they're going to taper. Let's listen to the Jackson Hall meeting, 26, 27, 28th in August. That's a platform where they talk about these things historically. Jay Powell does not seem to have the backbone to begin tapering anytime soon. If they're going to taper, it'll be in 2022. Just remember that means they will gently buy less mortgage-backed securities. It'll be backfilled because people are starved all over the world for yield. There's negative yield in so many parts of the world that 2.5% or 3% on a mortgage looks so attractive that there will be a backfill. Even if the Fed buys less, there will be players that come in and purchase more. Could rates go up a little bit from it? Yes, but it is not going to be. You're not going to see 5%, could you see 3.5% on a 30-year fixed? You could. It's not the end of the world. This is good, but I do think we'll see it circle back down. Interesting. Good summation there. For those that aren't yet aware and if they want to become more educated and be more magnetic and using their information to make a difference, a couple of different ways they can do that. Let's point them to a couple of resources. First of all, mbshighway.com. If you're not yet a member there, I know of the top 200 LOs I've interviewed around the country, many, many of those people use your platform there to show up and educate their clients and make a difference in their life. If you're not a member, go check it out mbshighway.com. Then, of course, recently you came out with certified mortgage advisor, which is the next level for education. Do you want to briefly articulate what that is? People really like it. We'll really help you hone your skills as a financial advisor in the mortgage industry where you'll understand things like the Fed. You won't be burnt out or people manipulate APR. You'll understand that. You'll understand the bond market where mortgage money comes from. All the things we should have learned and you'll understand how to read the charts. We've got so much expert content from Steve Nissen, brought Japanese candlesticks to the US, Katie Stockton, who you see on CMBC all the time. Many others that are contributors that will make a very big difference to round out your education in the financial aspects. This is a financial business. We are selling money. We should understand how money works. The last thing, Jeff, is I hope that people do take a look. I know we covered a lot of the book today, but there's so much more. I think it is beneficial and it's on audible. It's a nice... I did it in my voice. Professional reader would have probably done better, but it's kind of like home cooking, a little burnt on the edges, but it's got a lot of flavor and also the book. It's a nice book. It really is. It's got great reviews. There's a lot that went into it. No ghost writers. It's all me and my editor who did such a good job. My son actually helped a lot with the book. It's a book that I think will help you because we all go through tough times. It'll help. You know what? We all go through good times and I think it'll help you maximize it, but as the name suggests, money in the streets, it's about taking the skills you already have and the abilities you already have and finding ways to trust them more and hone them in more so you could see these opportunities and alleviate points of friction so you can have this explosive growth. 100%. We're going to put the links in the show notes for everybody. If you want to check out MBS Highway, it's mbshighway.com. If you want to check out becoming a certified mortgage advisor, it's become cma.com. Those links will be in the show notes as well as in addition to a link to Amazon where you can definitely get the book or the audible version of money in the streets, which like I said, I've thoroughly enjoyed. Same as I've thoroughly enjoyed catching up with you, Barry. Thank you so much. I appreciate it very much. You're an amazing guy, Jeff. I always appreciate you and thank you so much for everything. My pleasure. I look forward to seeing you soon. Listeners, you know what to do. If you like this episode, hey, leave a review and if you want to check out those resources, check the show notes. Appreciate you tuning in and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. 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