Becoming a Second Opinion Mortgage Specialist with Scott Schang

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Go check it out right now. Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Most consumers are going to work with the first person that they talk to unless that person drops the ball, right? And that's pretty, that's a game that they're playing, by the way, quick and for example. Yeah. Actually, let me add a couple other things that the positive sides of the quickens and the lending trees and the bank rates is, first of all, they've made consumers comfortable with getting mortgage information online. So I'm going to give them that. And they've also really pushed everybody's tech game. And I do agree that there needs to be hurdles removed from in front of the consumer to get to qualifying for mortgage. They're always trying to commoditize mortgages and you can commoditize certain mortgages, but especially with like COVID and the gig economy, there's a lot of people out there that just need somebody that can figure out the guidelines and piece this stuff together. Hey there, it's Jeff Zimfer. But you already know who I am. I'm the host of this podcast, the mortgage marketing radio. And I'm so grateful you have tuned in great to be connecting with you. And I'll tell you what I love so much about hosting this podcast in its sixth year right now is just bringing ideas and content to you guys that helps make a difference in your rear trajectory. I appreciate the DMs letting me know the difference the content is made. And hey, if you want to leave me a review wherever you're listening to this right now, tap your mobile phone, go to leave review. That'd be great. It really helps us come up in the search rankings. I was recently had the honor of being featured among other industry colleagues who also host podcasts by housing wire featured us as one of the top podcasts in the industry. So thanks housing wire shout out to you for doing that. Hey, by the way, so look at the market has shifted and I'm talking to agents and loan officers every single week and the thing I hear more often recently is that agents are getting lots of calls from lenders yet their approach is lame and same, meaning hey, let me tell you about our company. Let me tell you about our great rates, our great service, how fast we closed. Let me like to learn more about your business and what happens when you hear the same message over and over again, you tend to tune it out, right? The reality is you want more quality agent relationships, you want more consistent referrals because referrals are the quickest shortest path to your purchase pipeline in today's market. Have you struggled with how to get those agent conversations, have you struggled with how to get agent attention and conversations and ultimately to build profitable partnerships and referrals? I'd like to share with you a better way. You've heard the success stories. I keep rolling them out to you. I've got my another success story from Carmella shout out to you again, right? She's just ongoing and rocking with classes. She recently hosted this class 10 ways to get new listings. She had 24 registered 10 show up for new agents. She had never met before three appointments made after the class. She scheduled her next class, which is called embracing the shift right then and there and she had agents immediately signed up to attend that class. Then we have Jeremy Martin, who's got his third class in two months. Every agent there wants to follow up meeting. He says, I don't know why it took me so long to get signed up. What's taking you so long? You've heard me now for the past several podcast intros, run a brief commercial about my agent classes in the mortgage marketing pro membership. Have you checked it out? There's a brief video that's put up and it'll share with you exactly what's involved in our platform. It's turn key. It's plug and play. You simply become a member. You join our small group community of VIP members where we meet every single week and we coach on everything from social media to sales skills and everything in between. But even better than that, we equip you with a done for you platform of educational content that you reach out to real estate agents and invite them to your classes. Virtually or in person, we give you the social media images to post. We give you the emails to send the text messages. Literally in five minutes, you set up a class and you automate the entire invite and follow up system for getting agents to attend your classes. And then if you follow our coaching program, you will get conversations and referrals just like you heard about from our testimonials every single week. What do you do next? You'd be like Jeremy, you don't wait so long to sign up. You go to mortgage marketing.pro and learn more. All right, this week, my special guest is a long time friend. When I say long time, I'm talking over 10 years. My good friend Scott Shang is what I'll call a digital marketing maven. What I mean is, so Scott has been in the trenches for years, leveraging content, digital content to come up organically in Google search results to fund and funnel his mortgage pipeline with clients. And he's done it for years now. It's the third time he's been on the podcast and that is a very rare honor to be back in the third time on the podcast. And what I love about the conversation every time I have a Scott is I'm enlightened. I've learned something and I've become right more knowledgeable about something. And today we're talking about right search today. We're talking about not just search, but consumer direct. We're talking about how to, if you will, compete against the big boys and girls, the big boxes. And Scott has this pretty cool approach, what he calls a second opinion specialist. And he's got some stats that's relevant for you to hear about the tens of thousands of people that fill out an online mortgage app every day. What the conversion rates are on that and what the real opportunity is for you as a mortgage professional. If you're at all interested in diversifying your sources of business, not only just real estate agents as a pillar. And of course, we know that's an important one, but also going consumer direct, the holy grail. What does consumer direct mean? Where do you get the business? How do you compete? What do you do? That's what this episode is all about. So let's get into this week's show. Scott Shane, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. What is it? Second, third time? I think it's the third time. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't eat club, my friend. I feel very special. I do. We've been friends a long time. Yes, for sure. And for the listeners, yes, we've known each other gosh, at least 10 years. And you know, it's funny. I finally remember back in the day, you and me used to be at Starbucks at the Irvine Spectrum. Yeah. We just go talk marketing, man. And geek out and marketing. And that's a long time. It feels like a long time ago, 10 years, right? Yeah, yeah. No, gosh, it must, it's at least that long. And yeah, and we were still talking about CRMs and conversion and all of that stuff like that. Yeah. Things of things, something that have changed and some things haven't. That's right. Maybe that's a good place to enter. What do you think hasn't changed? Then we'll take what has changed. Oh, boy. I don't know, that's a really good question. I think the most important thing that I realized, and this is within the context of my experience, but being mostly consumer direct for over a decade, and what hasn't changed is there are still some of the companies that do the most marketing direct to consumers have the least experienced loan officers on the other side of that, on the other side of that inquiry. And yet when consumers, and this is what has happened, this is what has changed for sure over the last 10 years. And maybe even a little bit longer is these companies have convinced consumers that the way to get your questions answered about qualifying for a mortgage is to fill out a form on the internet, right? Because I mean, when you think about it, well, at least us as consumers and my decade plus experience working with mortgage consumers, they're not going online to fill out some rando application, they're going online because they have questions about qualifying for a mortgage, and they want to talk to somebody. But the only thing they're presented with on the first couple of pages of Google searches are fill out this form, fill out this form, somebody will get a hold of you. So I think the lack of experience in our industry has been exaggerated over time as more and more mortgage companies go online first, and they're trying to go tech first as opposed to in person first. I think that's a big, I think that's something that's definitely shifted. So are you implying there that the consumer experience of that search example you gave, right? Search some terms and we could talk terms, whatever, but, but ultimately the destination for most of those is fill out a form. Are you implying that that's not a great experience for the consumer? Well, yeah, I'm not implying it. I'm overtly stating that overwhelmingly that consumer, well, here are the statistics, here are the industry statistics from my lead generation insider friends. If you are purchasing leads, if you're a major buyer of leads from these companies, if you can convert 4% of those lead forms, you are absolutely knocking it out of the park. On average, between 2 and 4% of those lead forms will result in a closed loan with the company that bought the lead. And so what that means to me is that 96 to 98% of those online consumers are going back to Google, I think armed with a little bit more information, maybe a little bit more detailed question because they probably had some interaction and they're going back online and they're looking for a second opinion, they're looking for somebody else to help them. And, you know, I don't know if you and I have ever had this story, but I've been on this path, basically my entire career, I've been in the mortgage industry for over 20 years. And when I got into the industry, first my boss wouldn't really, he didn't want me to originate. So I did stuff in the back end, like I helped people prequel and run numbers and we used Excel spreadsheets back then for doing things. But when I wanted to originate, he basically told me I couldn't do it because I wasn't a great salesperson. And so he made me process for the top loan officer in the company for a year before he would let me originate. And so I did that. And when he started, when he let me originate, it turned out he was 100% right and I was a horrible salesperson, like I'm not good at being on the other side of a call center or title data or something like that. So what I did is we had this room in our office that was stacked floor to ceiling with legal sized bankers boxes of turn downs from all the other loan officers in the company. I spent the next two years in that room and I more than tripled the loan production of every other loan officer in that company for two straight years only working off of turn downs. Now there's a couple of reasons for that. One reason is that people didn't have databases. So they weren't keeping in touch with people if something happened. But like that was my very first experience and I didn't realize it at the time. But then when the market crashed in 2008 and I built my website, my consumer direct website, my website averages 20,000 unique visitors a month. And I would say in the high 90% of those have been turned down by one, two, three loan officers from call centers or some of these bigger bank companies that have most companies with big marketing budgets. They're not syncing that money into professionals. They're not hiring people like me to answer those phones. They're hands are in telemarketers and they usually have a lot of overlays. They're just looking for the easy stuff. So guys like me end up getting stuck with all the stuff with hair on it. Yeah, by the way, first of all, kudos and congrats to you that you sweat it out and that's how you built your stripes and really probably hold your ability to connect and understand, you know, and conversations. Baptism by fire, as I say. I want to go back to the stats you threw out though. And the context of what you talked about, like, you know, these big box, big budget companies aren't necessarily investing in, you know, professionalism or sales skills. So first of all, let me say this. You said all those lead forms that fill out. And of course, we all know who we're talking about the big boys and gals, two to four percent conversion. Yeah. I want to highlight if you agree with this is you said if you're converting four percent, you're knocking it out of the park. However, that four percent conversion though, that's an example, a snippet of data from the best of the best for conversion. Would you agree? Yes. Yeah. And on average, another four percent of that is going to convert over the next six months. A lot of these companies, a lot of these companies will continue to follow up on that data. But most of the time, they're going someplace else. Most of the time, most consumers are not, they're not taking no for an answer, right? They're going back and they're doing their research and they're just dialing until somebody tells them yes. Well, one of the reasons why I wanted to highlight that is because I don't want people to overlook that statistic because a lot of people are attracted by the siren song of online leads and paid ads and a consumer direct stuff, that holy grail. However, these are people converting at four percent, these are people who have their game on in terms of the technology platform, the automated follow-up, the long-term nurture, all that, the quickens of the world, etc. Like those guys correct me from wrong, those guys have that down pretty darn well, don't they? Well, it depends on what you're saying that they have down. Well, the technology side is really the lead generation. It's the lead capture where it all goes wrong is where they get on the phone with the kid who worked at the vitamin store six months ago. Hold up, hold up right there because that's the next question I wanted to ask is part two to that. And I don't have, I don't sit inside the boardrooms of quickening all these people. So I don't know the real answer. My assumption as knowing that they're a smart business is that they would be investing in training and resources for their people. So what do you say to that? Are they not investing in their people? They're, they, their system doesn't require them to have a high level of experience and expertise. That doesn't mean that there's not good people that work a quick in. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that that business model where you're spending a billion dollars a year in marketing, you're not putting that money into personnel. They've created a technology platform. And if the loan is easy enough, there are guardrails set up on that. They're not accepting any six, 19 credit score FHA loans, right? And there's, and we can, people can do those all day long, right? So that business model is really just, it helps a certain percentage of consumer. But they're not going to help, but there's a lot of consumers up there. And I think a lot of people are having the same experience as I am. Deals are getting harder and harder, the ones that we're able to get our hands on. If I'm correct, last time I looked, I may be slightly off on this number. But last time I looked, I think, quick and as a whole in terms of total market share capture rate was around 10% of total originations in the US. And I could be off on that. But my point of bringing that up is whether it's 10, it's eight, whatever is there's to your point. Let's say it is 10%. Well, that leaves a hell of a lot of additional business that they're not getting. A ton of additional business. And so I actually, I like the fact that those companies are out there because it's easier for a consumer to engage with an inexperienced paper pusher. And so it makes people like you have on your podcast all the time, that makes us look like rock stars because we actually know what we're talking about. And now, imagine the experience from the consumer that fills out, oh, hopefully they didn't refill out a bank rate or a lending tree because their phone is still ringing, right? And the text messages are still rolling in. Not so much with like a quickener, something like that. But it gives us the ability and actual professional that I don't know what your rating is on this. But quite frankly, consumers just need somebody that gives a shit. That's really all it is. Somebody that cares, somebody that, you know, there's a lot of us, there's a lot of us guideline geeks out there that hate to say no. You know, I love the fact that you shared this, this kind of opposite mindset about these big box companies and the fact that you said you're glad they're out there because that makes professionals look that much better, right? When a consumer can experience the two differences, what are they going to choose if you know, if you put like a professional who's highly skilled and knows all the right stuff that you know, we've been talking about in the show for years. But if you if you're doing an excellent job, if you're the, you know, lack of a better Ritz Carlton of mortgages, right? Service, caring, quality, dialogue, you know, the whole soups and versus what they get at that quick on a rocket, that's an obvious difference. And I would say if prices are relatively the same, consumers going to go with the better experience. Most consumers are going to work with the first person that they talk to unless that person drops the ball, right? And that's pretty, that's that that's a game that they're playing, by the way, quick and for example. Yeah, yeah, and actually, let me let me add a couple other a couple other things that that you know, the positive sides of of the quickens and the lending trees and the bank rates is first of all, they've they've made consumers comfortable with getting mortgage information online. So I'm going to give them that. And they've also really pushed everybody's tech game. And I do agree that there needs to be hurdles removed from in front of the consumer to get to qualifying for mortgage. They're always trying to commoditize mortgages. And you can commoditize certain mortgages, but especially with like COVID and the gig economy, there's a lot of people out there that just need somebody that can figure out the guidelines and piece this stuff together. And and for me, what I call that community is second opinion specialists. I love that. Right. Right. And like, that's our angle. Mm-hmm. What does that mean, second opinion specialists? Like a lender's listening to that. And like, I know I used to pitch that to realtors. Like, I'll be, you need a second opinion. But go ahead. What does that really mean? Well, for me, for for me, it, it, it, it means that we're problem solvers. We're troubleshooters and we're problem solvers. And if you're going to go out there and you're going to tell people you're going to give them a second opinion, like you better have some sort of depth of experience and product knowledge. Not everybody out there is a guideline geek and wants to handle second opinions. But what I can tell you, Jeff, and and and I've heard this over and over again with other people that are kind of in the similar spaces. I am the the loyalty and the referrals and the repeat business from somebody who's been turned down by another loan officer are probably multiples higher than if you bought leads from somebody and you just happened to be the lowest price and you're just a commodity and nobody cares about you. So I believe it's also a stronger relationship and it's a stronger past client pipeline. Hmm. Of that. Where do you think then, you know, because this consumer direct thing has been talked about for years, as you know, and it's always been what seems to be for many out of reach until, for example, social media came in and that's a different version of consumer direct and it's not exactly, you know, how, how we mean it here, per se, although you do have because of social the ability to build a relationship directly with a consumer. You got stories on the podcast, but where do you think that fits in in the overall high, right, of a of a loan officer's successful business, you know, strategy sources, et cetera? Consumer consumer direct. Mm-hmm. Like if you're building a get percentages or a slice of the, you know what I mean, like when should a why should a loan officer say, you know what, I need to go consumer direct and we'll, you know, whatever that means to you as well, explain what you think that means. Yeah, I think it is, first of all, I think it's a long game play. Mm-hmm. So I think if you're building up your consumer direct presence, now there's a few ways to do consumer direct. You can buy leads. That's considered consumer direct. The challenge that you have if you're using that method of consumer direct is you don't know what the ads look like. You don't know what's being told to the consumer for them to fill out the form. So when you get it, it's completely cold. And then the other piece of that is it's probably sold to multiple people. You can run your own ads, right? So you can hire an agency and tell them what to say and how to do it. And then that's going to be a little higher converting. And then what I've kind of done and what I'm trying to help loan officers with is creating your own content. So mostly video, transcribing the video, posting it as blog posts. And then that can be repurposed for all your social and all of your other things. I think consumer direct is really, really important, especially as we run into like these really challenging markets. If you don't own your lead flow, if you don't own, if you're not going consumer direct, it's just going to be a lot more challenging. I mean, if you're working with real estate agents, depending on what market you're in, they only have access to a certain number of consumers. I think it's absolutely vital. I think a lot of us do what you could call consumer direct on social, but they don't make that jump to Google and YouTube. And Google and YouTube are the largest search engines in the world. And so I think it's close to the same. You know, I think it's close to the same. I think it's close to social. So you mentioned creating content. Yeah. And so I'm always trying to like, and this is difficult because I'm always trying to, you know, advocate for the different context or situations of people that I know are in my audience, either based on people have had or other people, you truly know. So take YouTube, for example, right? Kyle Seagraves, for example, or others like him. Well, clearly he's built a very successful machine on YouTube, air quotes, consumer direct, using the second largest search engine YouTube. And so one could, or he might argue, you know, dude, I don't need to go anywhere else. Like I'm doing great on YouTube. Well, I know Kyle and we've had this conversation. And YouTube audiences are very, very challenging. It's, it's, it is difficult because education is what works on YouTube. And there isn't a clear way to control the path from the consumer. You can put links in the, in the bio. But then they're not pretty, right? They have to be the whole HTTPS. And it has to be the whole link. And you're getting people to go in there and click. That's not a bad, that's, that's, that's not a bad way to go. I mean, it's, it's a really good water. It's one line. It's, it's a line in the water. And what I, what I like is if I'm going to create content once I want to, I want to use it for multiple ways. So if I'm creating that video that I'm going to post on YouTube, I'm also going to transcribe it and publish it on my blog post as a text thing. I'll, I'll embed the video on there, but I'm going to, I'm going to paste the text. So now you're, now you're tackling Google because all of the keywords, everything that you said, it's now a blog post. And I think if you can get them to your own property like that, you can control the, the user experience much better. Yeah, but man, I don't have time to do all that. Like, that, that, I get it, I get it. And I didn't have time to do it either until the market crashed. And all of our other business sources dried up. So it's one of those things that you either make that investment in your business or you're always going to be starting at some point like by the time you need it, it's going to be too late. And then you're going to, and then you're going to be stuck with either buying leads from aggregators or shared leads or things like that, but they're not going to have a connection to you. Yeah, and it was a little bit of sarcasm as well with the, I don't have time because the, I don't have time is the same excuse everyone says for anything, right? I don't have time to work out. I don't have time to post video. Yeah, well, if you never have time, you know, it's true. And yes, you don't have time. And you should probably make time if you think that it's important enough. But, but really what, what, you know, what I want people to, to really hear here in this conversation though, Jeff is that there is, there are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of consumers every month filling out forms online from lead aggregators and big box lenders. Hundreds of thousands of people a month. We don't need very many of those to, but, but, but, to ignore that addressable audience of mortgage consumers is crazy. All right. Well, let's play a quick little game then here if you don't mind. Let's do tell them what he's won. No way. Where's my? All right. So I'm going to go to Google and I'm going to play with some keyword search terms. So let's play, let's play a second opinion specialist. Nobody's Google on that. No, I know. I know. But if I'm going to search, if I'm going to play a second opinion, yeah, if I'm a consumer, I'm going to search what am I going to search how much to qualify? Like, give me an example of a search term. I just just go as high level as you can. How do I qualify for mortgage? Okay. Let's do this. How do I qualify for a mortgage? And then, of course, other options are FHA loan, service dog, if anybody's interested, but, um, if you would Google came up with, here, let me do a screen share. And this is why if you're listening and you haven't gotten to my YouTube channel yet, now you want to go to my YouTube channel and we'll see this. Okay. So I typed in, oh, I actually chose FHA. So you want me to get rid of that and just do mortgage. How do I qualify for a mortgage? Sure. Yeah. For a mortgage. Okay. So obviously at the top is a good old boys, Raga mortgage. That is your lending tray. So you skipped rate pass this, though. Right. Which, uh, these are, well, yeah, those, you can get content to rank in those. They're most likely going to be informational. They're not going to be ads. Right. So that, that, it is a really good place if you can, if you can show up in there. One of the three main items to qualify for mortgage. So along the lines of what you said earlier, is that got a video? I'm going to take content I'm going to repurpose it as a blog post on a website, whatever. This is an example of how that stuff might show up. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. And when you scroll down, there should be the YouTube videos across the bottom. I know. Yeah. Here it is right here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, first she's a rock star. Oh, Lizzie. Yep. Yeah. She got it. So, so, so look at that. So, you know, we know Matt, um, Matt does a really good job with his YouTube channel. Lizzie does a really good job with her YouTube channel. Those are organic results. Right. So like, that's as good as paid. Yes. But their content creators. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I would argue as, or not argue, I would say, and I know you agree, they're getting business off of YouTube like a few moments ago. However, like we said, well, I mean, but I tend to go a little bit like, definitely advocate as well because I'm trying to, you know, meet Chief Truth Teller. So, I mean, are in a sense playing the consumer direct game because they're showing up on Google here. That if you're creating content, you are playing the consumer direct game. That's it. That's 100%. If you're a content creator on platforms where you can be found. And, and, and I think social is, I consider social consumer direct, but it's only the consumers. Not on Facebook strictly to look at pictures of their grandkids and cats. Yes. Right. It's just it's a different environment. It's an interruption marketing. Whereas YouTube and, and, and Google tend to be more answers. Consumers are asking specific questions. Right. And they're getting specific answers. And as you know, as well, part of what Google is now trying to do is actually give the answers within the search without clicking over to that donation page. And so you're missing out a little bit there. And so, okay. You could be very interesting, very interesting. I'm going to stop sharing. So, yeah. So, chances are they're going to hit one of those top three. And the top three, I think, was Google was, was rocket lending tree. And I think bank rate, right? So it was lending tree and rocket for the top two. The lending tree is in there. So far is in there. Surprisingly, interestingly, so far. Wow. Anyway, but yeah, generally that's what comes up. Yeah. And, and, and quick and as by far the elephant in the room, you know, they're doing the sale. They're doing that, you know, super bowl commercials. They're spending probably the most money out there, at least for an individual lender. Well, my, my question is ultimately this is knowing that, you know, the big boys are going to show up at the top. The ones we just mentioned. How do we then win? How do we, if we're talking about our, your, your version of Google or consumer Google, how do we win? Well, on an individual basis, you can be a content creator, you can create content. And you can learn consumer direct. Even if you're not creating content, even if you're buying leads, it's a completely different conversion strategy for consumer direct. And if you're going out and getting referrals from real estate agents and things like that, what I have built over the years is I am trying to build the largest life raft I possibly can in this, what I call this fast moving current of consumers that are being swept away because they fill out a form on the internet. And it gets sucked into some black hole and they end up on some kids desk in a call center somewhere, but the consumer has no clue on where they're going. They don't know who's going to answer their phone or what their experience is. So what I'm trying to do with Find My Way home is we're building a, basically a huge life raft where I'm connecting second opinion or consumers looking for a second opinion with loan officers willing to give them a second opinion. And we're making our brand promise is a one to one, a one to one introduction. And the way that we're, the way that we're doing that is we're building a community around second opinion specialists around, around loan officers that love to help consumers in that way. And they can be a part of that. And so we, it's a monthly membership that we do. And we, we have a huge net. I mean, like I said, I have over 20,000 unique visitors a month. That's organic. That's not even with paid. And then what we do is when we take the membership, we take the membership fees and we reinvest that so that we can start competing with those first page, those first page search results. So that's what we're trying to do. If you're, if you're just an individual that like works in a really hyper local area, like your community lender, you don't need something like what we're doing. You, you, you just need to start creating video. And you'll be at the top of, you'll be at the top of your list, right? It's, this works better for people that are licensed in multiple states. Do business across the entire state. They don't have a real hyper local presence. Hyper local presence. Just do it. You're going to get results very, very quickly. This is a little bit more of a higher volume game. Okay. Cool. All right. I know you, you're big on education, like I am in as well. And I know, you know, you value having loan officers equipped, which is, you know, why you kind of opened up what you talked about with, like, you know, the, the end result of who they get at that big box company. Usually, they're not highly skilled or trained. So you're also helping people kind of make this shift for who it is right for. Tell me about, like, what do you want to do? You know, we got some listeners, we got some people who that's right for that are reluctant to or more states. What should they do next? If this is something that's interesting to you, I will, you know, you can just schedule a call with me. That's the easiest way I can give you my calendar link. So let's put a, if you're cool with it, we can put a link to your calendar in the show notes or if there's this specific page instead, whatever you prefer, just other listeners know what to do. Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I'd like to do is I can give you a link where you can, where it can send to people and they can reach out to me through calendar to have a conversation. We basically have two options on our platform. One option is you can just get introductions to people looking for a second opinion. There, there really isn't anything else. You're going to have a profile on the website on, find my way home so you can be found on, find my way home. It's connected all the follow up, the consumer collection and all the follow up is all done for you. And then we have sort of an upgrade where we have a remote video production company and we removed all of the hurdles for people creating their own content. So if you go to find my way home.com and you click on your state, you'll see the experts that are already on my network and you'll see their videos. All they are literally doing is getting on a Zoom call like this and answering questions and talking. I have professional directors that sit there and talk them through their story. And we do all the editing and the publishing and the promoting and all the retargeting and stuff for you. Okay. So all right. So go to find my way, find my way home.com. And if you want to check it out, you can see some of the other professionals. I just did it just now. Like I clicked on Nevada and I see somebody showed up there. If I go to California, what do we got over here? A couple of folks in California. All right. Cool. So that's what they can do. And that's as an example of what it would look like to have a presence on the website. Got it. And there can also there'll be a link in the shown us to your calendar if they want to schedule a chat with you to learn more. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I have a ton of free content, a ton of free tutorials that I put together. My first and foremost goal is to keep consumers out of call centers. And I want to build awareness and give as much free training alone upstairs as they possibly can. The ones that know that they want to do it, but they don't have the time. That's where I'm trying to create some done for you solutions. But the bottom line is I need people like your listeners in the fight, right? So that so that so that we can keep consumers out of call centers and we can take care of them the way that they need to be taken care of. By the way, if you haven't already done it, that is the slogan. Keep consumers out of call centers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the website is where your first choice for a second opinion. But that is absolutely my mantra. My mantra is keep consumers out of call centers. Yeah. T shirts with that, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'll work. I'll get to work it out that right away. That's awesome. That's cool. All right. Well, definitely put a link in the show on this to all that information, man. And I know, look, we could be keep talking for another hour and just geeking out on marketing, but we're both real busy. And I just appreciate you. Number one, advocating for our fellow loan officers, because that's one thing hopefully people get to me is that I care and people that come on here care. And I know you as well. So appreciate you being here, man. No, I appreciate you having me. You've you've been doing amazing stuff for so long. And it's as absolute pleasure. I appreciate the friendship. Same here, same here. So listeners, you know what to do. Check the links in the show notes. And I feel like leaving a review. Hey, we'd love that as well. And I appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business, where you simply need more purchased loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. 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