Becoming a Top 100 Female Loan Officer

Hey, what's up Jeff Zimper coming at you again for another episode of the mortgage marketing radio podcast. Hope you're doing well. Hey, here it is. After August 17th, guess what? NAR is officially live and rocking and I'm curious to know how it's being played out in your local area, your market, how are you responding, how are you engaging with agents and buyers? And what's the vibe? What are you feeling out there? And the dust will settle on this eventually. I know, but I'll be curious to get your take on it. So if you're not a member of our Facebook group, hey, head over to Facebook and type in mortgage marketing radio, mortgage marketing radio in the search bar and that'll bring you to our private community of other like minded professionals where we're looking to level up our game, our mindset, our actions, our skill set. So head over there and let's continue the dialogue, love to know how you're responding to it. Speaking of responding to it, by the way, one of the ways that we are my inner circle club, my mortgage professional members at my age and classes, what are we doing? We're leading with education and content. Hopefully you've been listening for my podcast for any time now. You know, that's one of the main things we do. You're from in a moment from my special guest on this episode. That's what she also does, lead with education, right, attract versus chase and listen, approaching 350 episodes on this podcast. There's a recurring theme in terms of the key activities, the fundamentals that are done. And one of those fundamentals is, right, building a platform that allows you to become known five mile 15 mile famous on your local community that brings and draws agents to you that builds a brand of recognition and awareness for you that delivers all kinds of benefits for you in terms of increased opportunity, increased awareness, higher conversion, increased trust, et cetera, et cetera. The question is, what are you doing to take advantage of the NAR situation to put yourself out there as a resource for real estate agents to help them navigate this process? Top producers are doing it. You should be doing it. It's what we're helping our members do in our community. We've got three different classes that we're teaching all about the NAR settlement to help buyers agents win the buyer broker agreement, secure their commission and their scripts and strategies and a process that goes into that. If you want to learn more about how we do this and how our members are winning, you can go over to mortgagemarketing.pro, learn more, watch a brief video for me there. And if you think it's a fit for you, schedule a call with me. It's not for everybody who is this ideally for someone who's coachable, teachable, someone who's willing to show up and do the work. And then somebody who's doing at least three deals a month and has some level of agent relationships already, that's ideally who is a good candidate to get started. And of course we have other people that have been in the business 20 years that are part of our platform. So mortgagemarketing.pro, you want to go check that out. I can't leave the scene without sharing a couple of wins of the week. So it's not only that we do those classes NAR related, but we do like LinkedIn, Instagram, Google business profile. And I'm just looking at our private Facebook group here, where I can see that Steven, what's up? Shout out to Steven at 12 agents show up for his recent class. Kevin, what's up? Shout out yet 15 agents show up for your recent class. We've got Glenda, what's up? Shout out. She used one of the social media posts that we provide for our members. And she had 89 connections on that. I'm sorry 80 connections before 9 30 AM. That was an automated thing for her, by the way. She didn't really have to think and do that. So again, that's more examples of how we are helping mortgage originators win in today's market. Maybe it's for you mortgagemarketing.pro. Okay, my special guest for this week is an amazing woman. She is the number one female loan officer in the state of Kansas. She's the top one, her loan officer, female loan officer in the United States. And I love her attitude. She is a lake bum, a 90s rap expert. And she's in search of the perfect espresso martini. I'm talking about Katie grams. Katie is a phenomenal producer leader. She's got what I would call a servant's heart as I've discovered now just talking with her prior to me recording this intro. And she has been rocking it for seven years, seven years, right. And she's crushing it being the number one female L.O. in her state and a top 100 female producer in the country. Might you want to know what she does? What are her strategies? How does she get her business? The number one source? What is she doing with social media? What is she doing with events and marketing? This is the podcast episode for you to listen to. We're going to link to everything she talks about on her show notes, her Instagram profile, all that fun stuff. Check out her resources. But this is a phenomenal conversation. And I'm glad I have the opportunity to share Katie and her story with you. And I know you're going to be confidently enjoying this. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Katie, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jeff. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. It is a pleasure to have you. And I'm glad we got introduced at the recent forward event. Neil, during grass, shout out. Was that your first time in there? It was my first time in the best event that I have ever been to hands down. Like just the caliber of speakers in that room. I mean, I would have, like, Neil, don't go jacking up the prices. But like, I would have paid three times what I did to be in that room to hear the things we did from the people. So just fantastic event definitely will be a staple for me, moving forward. Fantastic. I agree. That was my third time. I only missed the very first one. And Neil knows this. Neil and I've known each other for a number of years. But his very first one was like small. Right. I mean, it only had, I think under like 100 people roughly. Right. It's quite quite the growth in just three, four years to now a thousand people. Amazing. I mean, Alex or Moses. Come on. Like craziness. Yeah. So good. So good. All right. So for people who don't know who Katie Grimes is, what do you want to share with the listeners? Yeah. I said that right. Didn't I? Do I have to edit that out? Yeah. Who are you? What do you want to share? That's me. I'll answer to anything these days. Go ahead. So yeah. So I am a obviously female loan officer here in the mortgage space. I am born and raised in Kansas. I was born in Western Kansas, moved to the Kansas City proper several years ago. So it's kind of where I've grown up and done my thing. So we kind of straddle the state line. So we're unique in that about half of our business happens in Kansas, half happens in Missouri. So we kind of have to pivot on both areas because different states certainly have some different nuances. So I have I am in my seventh year in the mortgage industry. So I'm done pretty well in that seven years. I had a former life as a as grow manager in the title space. So my grandmother and mother were both real estate agents. And so when I, it was time to get a big girl job. I went to title. So I started typing title commitments at age 19. I didn't take a super traditional route. I actually was a young single mom at a very pretty young age and so started working typing title commitments. I did not earn a college degree. So it's been a little bit of a different path for me, but something that I'm pretty proud to show people you can have some obstacles in life and not do something exactly the way that maybe society thinks you have to be in order to be successful. So yeah, so I did about 13 years in the title space grew a pretty good book of business was very, very busy closing and managing. You know, ultimately, I think I just wanted to feel more purpose in the transaction by the time you get to the end closing table, people are exhausted, they're grumpy, they're stressed, right. So I just was feeling like there's got to be a way for me to make an impact, you know, in a little bit of a deeper and more meaningful way. So I ended up meeting somebody in the mortgage industry. She kind of said, hey, what do you think about coming over to the mortgage side? And, you know, my experience as a closer, which mortgage people, like here's a tip, treat your escrow closers like the best because I will tell you that there are some really, really amazing opportunities for referrals and, you know, recommendations from from that side of the transaction. But kind of being in that, that chair, I, my, like, interpretation of what a loan officer does was basically never answers their phone is always on the golf course and it was just very like used car sales that was sort of the impression that I had at the time. And so I'm like, no, absolutely not, you know, mortgage is not for me. I am not that person. I, you know, relationships and is, you know, relationships are the most important thing, you know, for me. So, you know, I kind of molded over a little bit and started thinking, okay, well, if this is sort of what the norm is, and I know that that really probably isn't serving clients at the best, you know, in the best possible way, like, what could I do? Maybe to, you know, kind of flip that. And, and so I am in 2017. I resigned from my job. I jumped in, had no, no deals and no idea what I was going to do. And I joke around like my husband and I, you know, we love the lake. We've talked about that lots of times. We had a boat fund that we were kind of saving at the time for, for a boat. And I took that boat fund. And that was our plan. Either this is going to get us through and I'm going to close some loans or I'm going to go back to title and we're not getting a boat. So, yeah, thankfully it ended up working out pretty well. So I am now the number one female loan officer in Kansas. Number two overall in the city and we're closing lots of loans and changing lots of lives. Congratulations. Really. Thank you. That is a super exciting. That's a quick ride. Seven years, you know, top 100 in the country. Number one in your state. Yeah, it's been, it's been pretty, yeah, it's been pretty fantastic. Certainly the market has helped. But, you know, we're maintaining, we're staying stable over the last couple of years. Certainly things have shifted a little bit. And, you know, we're growing here locally. I recruited several loan officers to our branch and starting to, you know, look at some other, you know, avenues. I know we've talked about coaching and things like that. So, I think, you know, I'll always love doing loans. Like that's sure, you know, the top thing, but all of these other, you know, ways that I can help impact the mortgage community have been really, really wonderful too. And if I'm following you on, we'll put links to all this stuff we talk about like your Instagram in the show notes. But, if, if the Instagram is accurate, something tells me that the boat fund took care of itself. Right. It did. It did. It did. So, like long story short, a couple years in, I surprised my husband with a boat and this past summer, he got a new boat. Nice. Congratulations. That's fantastic. Yeah. That's hard. He does a lot. So, yeah, he deserves it. He's definitely the MVP of our household. So, takes care of all the things so that I can, you know, do what I do what I need to do. So, you can be a superwoman. You know, speaking of your Instagram profile, I went there and you have a very well structured profile bio bio on there, I should say. So, let me just go to it and just double check. Your little tagline on there is, I save buyers, home buyers, time and money. Yeah. It's very rare that I see a mortgage professional even real estate, right? I mean, it was for a little bit better, but most mortgage originators don't have a well structured bio. When did you add that? Like, what prompted you to do that? So, I, you know, I think I, I have tweaked my profile over the years here and there. I've had that tagline for a couple of years now. I think, you know, my ultimate goal is we, and especially in this industry, we talk in language that the average person just can't comprehend or understand how can you help me, right? And so, my goal in that is to be so simple that when you come and you check out my page, like, you're going to immediately know, like, hey, this, I'm, I'm for you or I'm not because most of the time, people, you know, tend to have a lot of hesitations around buying a house or looking at their finances. It's a scary process and situation, certainly. And so, I think, you know, being really, really clear on what problems you solve, right? And those happen to be the two biggest things or hurdles in someone looking at home financing options, right? Equate it to, like, I say this a lot, but like, I know that there are people that would rather go to the dentist and get a root canal than have me pull their credit, you know, so, you know, and in feeling like it's going to be a long drawn out process, you know, it might be expensive. So, I think time and money certainly are the biggest things that you have going on, you know, in terms of obstacles. So, if I can just immediately within the first few seconds of you coming and checking out who I am, say, here, this is what I'm about and what I'm here to help you with. Is Instagram your kind of number one social profile or place where you hang out most? Yeah, I mean, we love Instagram. I think it's the one that I've sort of taken a liking to the most. We do post on other platforms, you know, I think what people want to see from the platforms is different and Instagram for me. I'm a real, I'm a very visual person, so I think it helps that, you know, you've got stories and reels and things that you can actually, you know, sort of absorb that way versus Facebook, I think is sort of more short from like written content tends to do better. And so, we will tweak those things on all of the platforms for our audiences, but I think we get by far the most engagement on Instagram. It could be an age thing, you know, I'm, you know, in that sort of middle-aged range that seems to be where people are hanging out. I think we have a Snapchat and I took a talk, but I wouldn't know what to do. I've never been on Snapchat, so I think, yeah, identifying where your audience is at, but back to your Instagram. The other thing cool, so you think about this, right, is when people are going to check you out online. I know you know this, but this is for the listeners. Like, this is why how you show up online when they look you up, what do they find? Like, that's the question. And so when I first came to your Instagram page, and I first of all called out, let me do it this way. So the first thing I see at the very top is number one female loan originator in Kansas, right, top 100 woman L.O. in the U.S. Then there's the line I saved buyers time and money. So already, what I've got instantly just by a quick glance in three seconds is I've got credibility. Right, but then what I've got is now you make it, you make it real or humanized. This is what you do. You humanize it because you go on to say Lake bomb and 90s rap expert. Which immediately is like to your point of a second ago about like, you know, the daunting idea of getting a mortgage, pulling credit, all that. All of a sudden it's just like, oh, finally, like this human that I can relate to, you know. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I am just a normal person just like everyone else. I've been here there and everywhere in between with my own finances and in situation. And so I think, you know, as weird as I might be sometimes with my little quirks of loving 90s rap and things like that. I mean, it's who I am, right. And actually, I have had it's happened once I did have somebody reach out and say, I'm specifically wanting to work with you because of the rap comments. So like you just net it. Like case in point, your people will find you. Yeah. And so I always I have this saying and it's really ironic like I didn't make it up, but I've heard it and I've always kind of live by it. But I actually some like it was repeated at meals forward event of like I'd rather be like dislike for some for who I am versus liked for somebody I'm not. Yeah. I think just authenticity is is is really big for me. And then the last thing I have to ask about actually Google this. Tell me about the ISO perfect espresso martini. What's that all about? So I ISO is in search of. I insert of the perfect espresso martini. So all right. So here's the thing. Like I love a good cocktail. I am very snappy about my espresso martinis. It has to be the perfect. Like equation of coffee and the liquor. And then I got to have like a little bit of creaminess in there. But it's all about the ice crystals. And you've got to get that right. And so I will dabble in them and try them everywhere. And I make them at home. Still kind of searching for. So we do make them at home, but they're just not the same. Like it's it's a very hard cocktail. You got to chill the glass all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I am on the hunt. I had one in Vegas that probably was like top tier. So that sort of the the framework. But yeah, I will I will continue to search Kansas City for the best one. So any Kansas City ends that have like some some places I need to try. That's awesome. I'm there. Maybe you need to get sponsored by you know gray goose or somebody. I don't know. Right. All right. That's see this is the human side personal side of it. Now we're a little bit acquainted with Katie and who she is. And that's cool. Let me ask a question that I often ask people, which is what is your number one source of business? Yeah. So I am probably you know, I need to kind of check because I feel like this year it's been a little bit different. But I am primarily realtor referral based. I am a full you know blown retail loan officer. We don't buy leads. We are you know, and that's just because that's what I know. Right. So you came up title. Yeah. Right. I was entitled my clients for real estate agents. My you know, it's in you know, my parent, you know, my mom and so it's just what you know that you know that world. Well you did you feel when you transitioned over that you are comfortable approaching agents because of that previous because you're a whole thing. For sure. I mean, I think you know, it definitely helped. But I will say what's really ironic is I do still have some really, really great clients in terms of realtors that I worked with on the title side. But most of my best realtor referral partners now are people that I did not work with back then that I've just met over the last few years who have now become some of my very, very close friends. I think the biggest thing I can attribute it to is like I'm really big on whether or not it feels easy. Right. If it feels really hard to create a relationship with somebody like most of the time like there's an energy situation or or something. And so I really, really search for the people that are my people. Right. We're sharing commonalities. We're going through life together. You know, I vacation with a lot of my referral partners like I am, I am all about really, really deep and meaningful relationships. Because I really think that if you pour value into the people that you care about the most, that's always going to be reciprocated. And so not only, of course, do they trust me with their clients and their business, but they're also doing life with me, which what better awesome thing can you have than to work with people that you love. Oh, I appreciate that. So it's funny. Whatever this, this is something like you shares that and I've asked many, many people that same question. And I would say eight out of 10 times that I've asked that of quote unquote top producers. That's what they say realtors is number one. And yet, and I'll be curious to get your opinion on this because you know, you're involved with with growth only coaching and you've got you interface with other agents and and me are in the whole gang. You know, there's this, do you see this movement or this narrative of, you know, trying to move away from real estate agents as a significant source of business. And I'm curious to see your get your opinion on that whole narrative that's bubbling up in real. So I can, you know, all the stuff that you hear, what's your take on all that? And trust me, I get it. Do I think that the consumers should come to us first, get the financial piece in place, get the proper advice and then go to the realtor 100%. Like that really is how it should be done, right? You, you should be able to chuck your situation and know what you can do before, you know, moving to that next step. But let's face it. We're all human, right? And so when you are thinking about something big like this, the first thought that goes through someone's head is the excitement of it, right? Not the, not the tedious tasking of submitting pace up the W. Exactly, exactly. And so as much as we want to try to fight it, like this is just how it works, right? They want to call the realtor. They want to talk about their wish list. Oh, I want that man cave. I want the, you know, remodeled kitchen. I want the amazing backyard fire pit. Like all of those things because those generate warm and happy feelings, right? But here's the thing, like people make decisions from here, their heart, not their head, right? And so I think if we try to reverse that, our success levels aren't going to be as high because we're going to go through the numbers. I actually think when they talk to the realtor first and they get their kind of wish list in their area and they get so excited and they're moving forward. If they come to me and now I tell them, okay, to get all of that, here's your payment and that payment was probably maybe a little bit over what they initially, you know, had earmarked. Like they're still going to do it, right? Because in their, you know, they, they, they are now bought in and invested and they, they have this vision of what could be for their family. And so, you know, we may make a few adjustments to their budget or pay some debt off or something like that to make it work. But I think if we always talked numbers and always got to the client first, they don't have that vision of excitement, right? So I, I think a lot of people would maybe decide, hey, maybe we'll pause, maybe we'll hold off because, you know, the numbers just aren't as. Yeah, it's kind of like when you've bought into the dream, okay, we're going to go buy a house or whatever. Because you have that emotional investment and you run into some headwinds with financing, for example, because it started with that dream. You're like, okay, well, hey, we, we still want to do this right instead of reverse. Yeah. So we have a bigger incentive to break through it. Okay. So that's cool. Yeah. Then talk to me a little bit about what are the types of activities that you tend to engage into, attract and engage realtors. That's a good one. So yeah, I think, you know, in terms of like my process, and this is what I tell everybody, like, I am no different than any other original and officer reaching out to agents, I just call a lot of them and I connect with a lot of them, right? It's a lot of averages. So I kiss a lot of frogs too, right? I will meet people that I, that there's no connection with or something. So the more connections you make, the more opportunities that will come your way, it is math. That's it. That's a double click right there. Yeah. So I do my best to, you know, certainly connect with as many as I can. I'm a big fan of what I call the buddy system. So I will reach out to a great referral partner of mine. I do these check-ins every couple of months of, hey, how are things going? Like, what's something I can do better to serve you and your team? Also, like, I'm going, I'm looking to add a referral partner. If you have somebody in your office or some or a co-op agent that you worked with lately that you think is like just amazing that I would, you know, I'd love an opportunity for an introduction. So I'm huge on that just simply because then it's not a total cold, you know, contact. Right. I've got somebody that already knows how you operate and knows your surface level who is endorsing you to somebody else. So I use my sort of raving fans a lot to create more raving fans, which is, which is awesome. I am doing a million events. I am always out and about. I am still doing open houses. I mean, we close a lot of loans. And I will, I'm doing one Saturday and Sunday for a couple of hours this weekend. So, like, I just, I don't, I don't really stop. You're doing the fundamentals. Activities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm my whiteboard over here. I have B, B burl, if I could say it, B brilliant in the basics. Totally. And so so many people want to like, you know, something the bright, the bright shiny or hit the easy button. And this is what I've discovered, you know, having been here now for eight years doing this podcast, 300 plus interviews. Like, I hear a pattern and, you know, people like yourself and other people that are in the high achiever club, they tend to focus on the fundamentals, get those nailed down, and then layer in the other elements such as video, social, whatever. Like, that's a key part of it. But if you don't have your fundamentals down, you know, because the, what have you found real quick? Real, real quick sidebar from the social thing. Have you been able to generate business from social yet? So, here's what I will say. Do I get clients that reach out to me on social asking to come, you know, for a loan consultation? No, I don't. But here is what I, I believe in, you know, we teach this at go to. But, you know, you need to do the best you can in terms of becoming a modern loan officer to be seen before you're known. So, if I can get my social branding out there to where people are seeing my posts, seeing my content, seeing my value, seeing my education, seeing my face, like when they come across my name on an offer or we meet at an event or something like that, they're like, oh, I know who you are. And so, that's the goal is that it gives you, you know, credibility and just, I think that that's really important. I have had some good success in connecting with new referral partners via social, like they'll comment on a post or something like that. And then it's sort of a segue into, you know, a conversation, you know, that we can, you know, continue offline and meet in person. But I also, I'm doing the social posting and in doing social marketing. But nothing's going to beat just face to face, voice to voice, like again, spoiler alert. You're not going to fill your pipeline with people from social media. Well, and again, everybody, hopefully listening understands we're not saying that social doesn't have its place or its value in that you can't get clients directly, you can. I mean, I've had people on this podcast. Absolutely does. I do have some people who've gotten business, but here's the thing I always say, which is if you're focused on purchase business, and I got this business in 2003. Okay. So, I have yet to find and I will debate this. I want to have my own debate, I guess, with whoever wants to take it on. It's usually people selling ad services, but the debate is, why the realtor card? Why am I personally and why do you and other quote top producers still seem to be playing that realtor card? When I say, oh, you know, social, it's because this, it's because I've yet to find a higher converting, lowest cost, ease of, you know, what do you call it, engagement. Usually I have a better way to say this, but today I don't. Highest converting, lowest costs, right, quickest time path to get to closed deal. Like there isn't a better one than a referral. Well, it's the most direct route to the need. Right. If they're reaching out to a realtor, they need to raise their hands. I'm a prospect. Exactly. By the way, they get to realtor, the timeline ad is usually quite shorter. Exactly. Like this is, the social is absolutely important, you know, in terms of creating, you know, a sustainable business with lots of different, you know, streams of where you're getting your business. But you're relying on the people that have the need to see your content. And so that could look very different for lots of lots of people, right? Like if you're a younger, you know, a younger loan officer and you've got lots of people that are still just renters, like your friends that you're connected with on social or the ones that are seeing your content, but they're not the ones with the need right now, right? They might be in a couple of years. So I think it's just, like I said, it's just the most direct route to the people that are actually needing you. Okay. I'm going to go tactical now for a moment, if you don't mind. I'm going to open a couple of tabs on my browser over here. Okay. And I'm going to look at some data. Oh, I use Redder. Do you know Redder versus MMI? We're looking up loan officers. So I've heard of it. Oh, yeah, real estate track record. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. By the way, if you don't know Redder, check them out. R-E-T-R dot app. I believe is what it is. I know Steven. Yeah, we've got a subscription to that. But anyway, the reason why I use this data is because you know, LOS like to look up other LOS. But what I get curious about is when I look at like your top buyer agents by transaction count, year-to-date, I see Amy Jacobson in there. Mm-hmm. Does that name ring a bell? Yes. Okay. Is she a, how would you articulate her? Is she a buyer's agent? What is she? She does both. She does primarily do most buyers. Um, here's what's great about Amy. Mm-hmm. Is that, like I said, she's a raving fan. So my conversion rates with her clients, I am at almost nearly 100%. And something cool about Amy is that she has only been an agent for a couple of years. Wow. And she's killing it. All right, well, check this out. If this is accurate, according to this, this year you've closed five deals with her. We probably close more than that. Yeah, you never know what these these numbers, but at least in terms of she seems to be one of your top agents for referrals. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. How did you get into her business? We're usually closing at least one to two. Okay. So, yeah. So Amy and I got connected. She joined a team with Georgian Heyhow, who's another OG, amazing real estate agent here in Kansas City. I've known her for years. We're very close. She joined her team. And so I got an introduction through Georgian, again, raving fans, right? Like stick to the people who can, you know, support you and encourage you and want to see you succeed. And so Georgian gave me an introduction to Amy. Amy had somebody that she knew in the industry at the beginning. And so we actually didn't start working together right off. But over some time, she, you know, gave us the opportunity and then, you know, we've been taking great care of her clients ever since. So I think when Amy is communicating with her clients, the importance of using a quality lender, she's really fantastic at that. And she will say, you know, at the end of the day, you can use whoever you want. But I'm going to tell you that having Katie's name on a pre-approval letter almost doubles your chances of getting it, you know, accepted. Which is like something I'm super, super proud of. Nothing makes me feel better than when a client or an agent calls me and says, the listing agent said they accepted your offer because you are the lender. Like that's, that's when you know you're doing stuff right. Yeah, I love that. Which makes me think or be curious about what do you do or have you trained right your agents around the tee off the hand off, you know, to edify you and back and forth. Do you have any structured process around that that you've coached them, you know. So we certainly make some suggestions from time to time and in things like that. I think, you know, again, I'm getting so intimate with these realtors, right. They know who I am. They know my family. They know my kids. They know what hobbies I have. They know the music I like to listen to. They know the restaurants we love to go to. So it's, it's more about like they just really know who I am at the core. Not so much easier to explain to a client when you really know like and trust somebody, right. And so that's the goal is to always, you know, go the distance with your referral partner to where, you know, I, does everything go perfectly all the time. It doesn't, right. But I know that if we had a hiccup on one of Amy's files, she's not out the door, you know, because she knows who I am. And mistakes can happen and, you know, sometimes things can get messy. But like that's when good stuff happens when you know, you know, you're not like trying to be perfect all the time. And so I think, you know, it's easy for her to communicate my value because she knows who I am. And I do a good job at expressing that value too. Sure. So that level of relationship and connection you have helps her just without a scrapped communicate value because she feels and she believes it. Right. And you guys have that vested relationship. Obviously not all relationships are like that. And that's one of the areas I see a lot of originators missing the mark is coaching the agents on how to do the handoff. And then vice versa, like what we often do is we, we kind of do a role play where let's say you're the agent and, and, you know, Bill and Mary called me and said, Hey, I'm working with Katie Grimes. She said to call you, right, because you're like an awesome lender, whatever. So the first thing I'm going to do is edify Katie, right. I'm going to say, Oh, my gosh, that's fantastic. Katie's one of the best agents in all of the state of Kansas. She's been in business. This next year's blah, blah, blah, boom, just blow the socks off at Katie. You know what I mean. I think that is such an easy thing to do that. If you told realtors, Hey, here's how I'm going to edify you. Right. You're now coaching them and like, so this is like I'd like to be identified as a similar way. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah, I think there's no better way to show your gratitude for a realtor that's going out of their way to say here. Just talk to her then to reciprocate that to the client, say you're in the best hand. Right. Yeah, we have great templates for that kind of thing. And, you know, we certainly will, you know, offer those. And when a new realtor partner comes onto the team, we give them sort of a little breakdown. Hey, here's this, this. You can use these things, but I will tell you like most of my realtors, they'll just copy me on a text with the client. And I like to reach out to the client. I don't like to wait for the client to reach out to me. But it's my personal cell. You know, they can, they can get me at seven o'clock on a Friday night if they need to, right? Like, so I think that there's, I don't want to make the process too formal. Yeah. In that sense. And so it's going to vary, you know, so I mean, let's just face it. It depends on where these relationships are at. Some agents have gotten some of the relationships have gotten lazy. The dynamic between the two, you know, so not to go to super dip. Well, and what I like to that point, like what I've noticed a little bit lately is agents just with business, you know, being a little bit slower and a little bit harder. The deals are a little bit harder. They're not wanting to rock the boat quite so much. So if a client comes and they say, oh, yeah, I'm approved with rocket mortgage. Not that there's anything with rocket, but or something along those lines. Like in like what I'm noticing a lot is before they may have pushed that envelope a little bit and said, hey, that's great. But like here are a couple of local resources I'd love. Like a lot of them right now are like, well, it's just a deal. And I got to make sure that I can get, you know, some money in the door. So I just don't want to, you know, push that envelope a little bit. But, you know, those are always the deals we come in and save in 10 days. Right. Exactly. I like the second opinion approach. I've heard that one used a lot. Like the realtor is like, hey, that's fine. You're with rocket. But would you be open to a second opinion, right? That kind of approach. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's very cool. Okay, so I want to also kind of dig in a little bit on this thing as we're pulling on the realtor's red for the time being. If I jump back into redder, this is what I also find with people who are doing a large amount of transactions like yourself is like there's this. What I find is this is that well, if 80% or whatever percent of your businesses from realtors, right. That in my experience, when I look at all this stuff is spread across not a few realtors, but many realtors. Yeah. Yeah. And are you trying to, this is me being curious, are you trying to consolidate any of that? Are you trying to like go after teams and, you know what I mean, concentrate more? Or is this just a nature of the beast and you're fine getting, you know, two deals a year from a realtor? Well, I think here's the thing. If you put all your eggs in one basket of a larger team, which let's be honest, like I think we all would love to have, you know, I think. That's what we believe is right. But if you put all your eggs in that basket and something happens and that relationship goes away, you've got nothing. And so I am of the belief that I would rather have a little pie from a lot of different pies than one whole pie from one, right. Because if that pie gets discontinued, you're kind of screwed, right. So that's kind of my thought process. I will say like at the same time, I can't control like what comes my way. All I can do is just make the connections and make the contacts. And I think that there have been times that those numbers have looked a little bit different. I think this year it's definitely, it's just different for everybody. It's different for the real estate agents. Most of my real estate agents are down quite a bit. They may be a little bit more listing heavy this year than buyers. And so, you know, those are all just circumstances that are out of my control. So I try not to, you know, focus too much on one of my getting from one particular person. I think that sort of those A plus relationships like I call them are really important. If you get too many of those, like it's, it's really difficult to try to show up at that level for all of them, right. And how do you then, what are the strategies or tactics you use to stay top of mind across many agents? So, you know, I think we do, we do a lot of different things, but I'm really big on just acts of gratitude. So I will, you know, send a voice text spontaneously telling them how much I appreciate them and how grateful we are for our partnership. I'm pretty big on events around town. I do a ton of charity work. So I will invite them to sort of, you know, some fun events. We're hosting a big rooftop event down in downtown Kansas City this weekend. So I've got about 40 of my realtor partners coming with their spouses. So this is a great thing, right, because we're giving back to a charity. But we also get to have a good time. We do a lot of Popeyes. We will do classes. But sometimes it's just a phone call, right. You know, just to remind them of like, hey, I, I really, really appreciate you. Yeah, it's a connection. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite things to do, I think with my referral partners is do a, I kind of call it like a, like a walking break bread. So if you have realtors that are really busy and on the go and like, you're trying to get them to coffee or lunch or something like that and it's just not working out, I invite them to like, just jump over to, we've got a local park here that's like five minutes away from my house that everybody kind of knows. And it's like, hey, let's go for a walk because everybody is trying to get out and get some movement and get a workout in. And so I'll just meet them over there in the morning for like a quick 45 minute walk. You're moving, you're talking a little business, you're, you know, catching up with them. That's really valuable. Yeah. It has been for me for guys that can be the golf course, I guess, right? For the guys who don't want to. Yeah, true. And I like to golf too, but that's a little bit harder. It's a longer time walk on the calendar for sure. Yeah. I think the takeaway from this is whatever opportunities you have to connect, right? And I say connect with an underlying connect in a meaningful way, not in a, hey, I'm trying to get something from you, right? Right. This is just, hey, appreciate. Even if it was like six months ago, which is now probably a good transition to get into with the remaining time we have the NAR situation, you know, all that's happening around that. I'm curious. What activities you might be doing around that, either communication wise or, you know, showcasing how you can help. With the bioregion compensation, whether it's commission gap stuff, you know, anything around that that you're doing. Yeah, so we're, I'm actually teaching my first class on Monday, and then we have another one on September 12th. That I am going to present, you know, from a lender's perspective of what we're doing. You know, I think the biggest thing that I'm focusing on is supporting the realtor and their value. And, you know, just reiterating to all of my clients that, hey, this really has how it's always been. It's just the requirements now or that we just have to be a little bit more transparent and open with the process. It's changing a little bit, but commissions have always been negotiable, and they will remain that way, right? At the end of the day, a seller wants two things, and they want certainty, and they have a number in their mind that they want to walk away with. As long as we can complete those two things, having the certainty piece of having the reputation and the backing of our company, we can get, you know, files review very, very quickly. So I am working on like improving like some, even thinking outside the box, right? Like moving up a loan contingency period to a shorter period of time, you know, doing some things like that. We're giving that seller the piece of mind to know, okay, like this isn't going to fall apart on day, you know, 29 if we have a 30 day contract. You know, we're going to get this through underwriting fully approved within five days. So we're doing some things like that that I'll, you know, be kind of teaching my realtor partners about that we can come in and hear the things that we can do. You know, as long as you're meeting those two needs of the seller, like it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. Do you know, so you're in the state of Kansas, right? Yeah, so our, I live in Kansas, our offices in Kansas, but we do kind of cover both sides of the state line. Have you had buyer broker agreements required already prior to this whole thing? So we, so we have those have been required. However, they've not been required. The biggest difference there is for an agent to even open one door. They now have to be under a buyer's representation. So that's going to be a little bit different. And case in point, that's why I'm going to open houses this weekend. I'm going to do it every weekend that I can because a buyer just to kind of kick the tires and see what a house it looks like to have to sign that, you know, buyers agency, you know, agreement. I think they may sort of hesitate a little bit on that just because unless you're really serious about going, you may just not want to do that right off the bat, right? So I think we're going to see a lot more buyers going to open houses and checking out homes on their own, which can be equally as dangerous. So I want to be there to help answer questions and help facilitate the right thing. But like if you're a real estate agent, like, you want to be booking some open houses. Yeah, I, like, I am, I am really confident that the this is going to be a thing, you know, that we're going to be dealing with quite a bit. So yeah, so that's, that's the biggest significant difference in our market is now, like, you can't just, you know, I couldn't call up my buddy, my friend realtor and say, hey, go show me this house because I just really kind of want to see it, you know, and I've done that in the past before that can happen anymore. So yeah, there's a few things in there. One, before I get into the open house thing, are you then in these classes of answer discussions with agents, are you showcasing, you know, like, I'm wearing today, I'm wearing a, you know, first home IQ ambassador, sure, shout out savage and Kristen and mortgage coach and all that. Trust engine, how many brands does he have? I can't keep up. We love, we love home IQ. Yeah, for sure. It's a good thing and you need to be, you need to check it out if you haven't already, first home IQ. If you're all about education. So where the hell was I going? Oh, yeah, the commission gap strategy and appraisal gap. I'm sure you know what those are. Are you see, because here's what I believe is like, and I know you probably have the same ill care is we need to, this is for me, I've seen the LOS that I'm working with. Is help them facilitating them to get in front of agents at scale with teaching classes. And one of the things that they're going to do in there is showcase how financing can help cross the commission gap strategy or appraisal grab into that kind of stuff. Are you having any of those kind of conversations with agents? Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think, you know, I made a company transition at the beginning of this year and, you know, one of the biggest reasons that I chose, you know, I'm now across country. We've opened a new branch here in Kansas City and in kind of growing the Midwest for. For that purpose was because I wanted to make sure that I always had the best products to be able to help solve these problems. And so we've got some really awesome products. And you sell what you've got, right? So like, but you can always sort of work, you know, a scenario and so cross country has for for a good chunk of qualified buyers. There is a product that we have called smart start that provides a 2% non repiable grant. It's not passed on in the right. I mean, it's an awesome product. So all of us CCM loan officers. I'm sure are using it. But here's case and point is if you end up needing some funds for a commission gap of appraisal gap because we have an issue. We're giving you 2% right most buyers are planning to have at least 3% so if you're going to put 3% down and I can give back 2% you now have at least 2% to pay your agent. We also have a product called buy by PMI. And so again, most buyer borrowers can qualify for this. If you're planning to put 20% down, we will not charge you PMI if you put at least 15% down. So I've just created a 5% buffer in your in your budget, which more than covers commission when more than cover an appraisal gap, right? So we've got some really awesome products that are going to help with these things should they become issues, you know, in the long run. So I think there's some different strategies, you know, that you certainly can look at and, you know, always check with your company on what's possible, right? Because we call these products these things, but they probably exist in some, you know, realm in every company. But yeah, I'm promoting, you know, the way that we can come in and help, you know, absorb some of that financial concern. Well, it's in the reason why I bring those examples up is it's about solving problems, right? And you have a great opportunity to illustrate, demonstrate how you can help solve problems as a mortgage professional. So you become something more than just a vendor, right? Quick side note on the open house thing, I've been spending, I've been spending a lot of time, like on webinars and on NAR and all this kind of stuff. And just because I'm putting all these classes together, but that that's funny. There's this distinction and you get in these realtors group, like there's so much misinformation out there. And there's this thread that I've been following. So not to open up a rabbit hole, but like just to be clear, buyers, when they're going to an open, this is for listeners, buyers, when they go to an open house, they do not need a agreement to go into an open house to tour an open house or anything like that. And so if you ever want to set the record straight, yes, you can tell whoever this is because the reality is that house is being represented by the seller, right? That's on the sell side. So they don't need that. And it's of course not until they engage in representation. So that's correct, right? Well, and here's the thing for those loan officers that would like to bypass the realtor and get straight to the clients, like go go work in open house, you're kind of buying buyers that come in. Yeah, that need you. Before this NAR thing, like a couple of months ago, I did an open house and I hadn't done one in a while and I absolutely loved it, but I picked up five, like five prospects. And we pre-approved a couple of them and one is already closed. And so I mean, you just, it's a good opportunity that I think if people aren't going to start considering to sort of like you said early on, like getting back to the fundamentals or the basics. And, you know, open house is used to be, you know, used to be a big thing. And so I know, you know, just within inventory levels and the competition of the market, you couldn't keep a house on the market longer for one. But yeah, it's changing. And so, yes, you're exactly right. They do not need any representation to go through a house that is being marketed by the seller. Exactly. Just for people listening. Okay, so we are just about out of time. I'm real curious, though, real quick, if you want to give me the break, by the way, just your website is as beautiful, like your company website. We're going to put a link to it so people can see it. It's amazing. It's very professional. I appreciate that. I, so I call it as use. It's, that's a made-up word. It's J-O-O-J, right? So I take something and it's called just kind of like using it up, right, elevating it to the next level that makes me just stand out a little bit different. So I say that word a lot. It's like, hey, that's great. But let's, what can we do to use that up? Love it. Love it. Love it. My, my website is definitely something I'm proud of, so thank you. Yeah. We'll link it up in the show notes. And this has got me real curious as well. As you're doing this team KG marketing thing, free on-demand marketing solution for real estate agents. So this is like marketing listing flyers. What do you want to share about this and what's the whole strategy here? So this has been a labor of love. So Danny, my marketing director, my friend, she and I have had this idea for a while and think, thankfully to another top producing L.O. at CCM Matt Weaver, shout out to Matt Weaver, the number one L.O. in the nation. Yeah. He really helped us put this together and sort of get it off the ground a little bit quicker and faster because, you know, we are, we had this vision and we knew what we wanted to create. And so thanks to Matt and his, his abilities, he was able to kind of help us implement this a little bit sooner. So this is a, just like you said, free marketing tool for real estate agents. So the idea here is for us to be available to help with any of their needs as quickly as possible, right? So they can pop on team KG marketing, request listing flyers, open house materials, have us host an open house with them. They can request buyer scenarios any sort of any marketing assets that are, you know, needed for them to push something forward. We have a, you know, rent versus buy comparison that they can request and now versus later, like waiting, you know, versus buying now. What does that look like? So just anything that's going to help elevate their level of service to their client too. So, you know, we want them out selling houses and making connections with clients. And so if we can, you know, do some of that heavy lifting for them, you know, that's kind of what we're all about. So again, it's just an extra value add that we are providing, you know, to, to the realtor population here in Kansas City. So yeah, shout out to Matt as well. He's been on the show twice really dig what he's doing, like the level of standard over there's crazy. I know. I learned a lot just by listening to him. All right, real, let me play real quick, just, you know, listing flyers, marketing flyers, again, back to this whole narrative that social media talks about with real. I mean, do realtors, you know, you know, you always hear it's like, oh, realtors don't want your listing flyers. They don't want your finance flyers. What do you say to that? Well, and that's okay, but like, are you going to go do them yourself? Like, probably not, right? So again, I've already used them up for you. So, I mean, in my, again, going back to the time and money scenario, right? Like, if you're a realtor and you need marketing assets, you're either probably paying somebody to make them for you or you're making them yourself, which is time, right? So again, I'm giving realtor's time and money by offering these to them. So I would say my marketing assets are going to be way better than no marketing assets, right? But it's been a labor of love. And we have, we've gone through, we fine tune them. I, I'm really proud of it. And I think that all of my referral partners would not hesitate to use our item. And hopefully you know what? I'm not bringing that up to poo poo the idea, bringing it up to poo poo poo the narrative, which I'm just so tired of seeing this narrative out there. I want to all BS on it because it's bullshit. It depends on the agent, right? Because to your point, if they're either not going to do it, put it this way, like back to the fundamentals. When I was coming up, man, one of the ways I got relationships was I hit, I found out the listings ahead of time got the property address and I created the flyer and went to the broker preview and showed up with my flyers. And this is how I friggin got realtor businesses. And so I brought the flyers, they put them in the rack, not always, but a lot of the times. But anyway, bottom line is, you know, at, I remember Shampanozi and said this is he wanted to be the most valuable lender in town, right? And how do you do that? Figure out that for you. You've obviously done it a lot of different ways. Totally. Okay, we are officially at time and probably gone a little bit over, but I appreciate that the grace on that. Where would you like people who loved this interview? And by the way, if you're listening and you love the conversation, you want to connect with Katie, where would you like them to go? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, our Instagram Katie, Katie in Casey, I definitely would love to connect with anyone, especially, you know, female loan officers in the business, if you are feeling stuck or just not sure where to go, trying to balance, you know, motherhood and mortgages and all the things like that's really my space and what I love to do. But, you know, certainly our website is Katie in Casey.com and then Instagram as well. So I just appreciate the opportunity Jeff and thanks for. No, thank you. Thank you for making time. That sounds like it's got some legs, though, motherhood and mortgages, right? Yeah, so that's actually my tagline in coaching. So, you know, my coaching students, yeah, they. And you're also a coach with growth only coaching. So if anybody doesn't know about that, we'll link that up. It's a fantastic coaching platform. For sure. Yes, I would love that. I love that. We're growing. Amazing. Like, it's just, it's so fulfilling and so gratifying. And it's like the one thing in my life that was missing is to help other people. And, you know, like I said, my path wasn't just clean and neat, but it's really, really satisfying to show people how, you know, to create a business with purpose. Right. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, listeners. You know what to do? You can find the links in the show notes, connect with Katie, let her know you enjoyed the episode. And we will see you on the next one. Everybody. Bye for now.