Carl White Interviews Me

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. He was an expert about systems and quality. One of the things he said was, if you can't describe what you do as a process, you don't have a process. And I was like, that's what I've seen from top loan officers is everything is a process. You're defined, you know, lead comes in call, you know, and I'm doing soup to not processing, post-close. It's all a process. Hey there, Jeff Zimfer. Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. I am thrilled you decided to tune in, of course. As always, we are on episode 260, 260. Hey, and if you've been listening for some time, I sure would appreciate you taking a moment right now on your smartphone wherever you're listening to this tap through and tell you find the leave a review part of the podcast app and go ahead and leave us a review wherever you're listening to this Spotify iTunes or somewhere else. Appreciate that helps us reach more people and add more value. In addition, good news. I wanted to bring to you some good news and who doesn't like good news. So look, we're in a situation in a market where I just got off the phone earlier with a couple of officers and one of the primary focuses that they're shifting to, of course, is going back to re-engaging, rebuilding, igniting or reaching out to new, realtor partners to build relationships. That's the buzz word, build relationships as if that you shouldn't have always been doing that, right? Of course, you should have. Maybe you got taken aside by the refi, live and die by the refi. And now I'm hearing a lot of loan officers calling agents across the country and a same is lame approach is falling flat. It's not working. Let me tell you about our company. Let me tell you about our great rates are, let me tell you about this or that. How about we shift the conversation to how can I help you? How about we shift the conversation to what's your biggest challenge right now with the market shift? What's changed in your business plan for the rest of this year in into 2023? And I ask because I think I can help. That's the stuff we're coaching realtor or loan officers on right now, how to approach realtor and have conversations. We're also helping loan officers build their personal brand in their local community and scaling, right? Reaching maximum agents in minimum time and getting referrals on demand. You've heard it before. That's right. My agent classes. Hot off the press. I got a brand new, brand new success story from Jeremy in Arkansas. Jeremy sent me an email yesterday. He says, I have a home buyer class that I'm doing with a new agent as a result of your platform. They already have 75 registered for this class and the class isn't even until October 22nd. The day is September 27th. Now, my question is for you, the name of the game is attention. The name of the game is value. The name of the game is, how do I help my realtor partner succeed? How do I bring them, right, opportunities and deals? How do I help them with their business, lead with an educational platform? There's lots of different ways to do that. And we help you do that through our weekly live Zoom coaching calls that we do every single week in my agent classes and the mortgage marketing pro membership. You want to get results like Jamie? You want to get results like the other success stories we've talked about for the last few weeks here. What are you waiting for? Go over to mortgagemarketing.pro. Check it out if it's right for you great. If it's not, what is your plan? How are you going to get in front of the existing flow of business that is going to be coming from realtors? And how are you going to actually be a modern mortgage professional and take care of the digital side of things as well, the consumer first set, your social presence, generating your own leads, and then having a platform and a process to be able to manage those leads effectively follow up nurture and convert. That's what we do for our members over at my agent classes. You get both sides of that. You get the traditional realtor database marketing relationships referrals. And then you get the modern mortgage originator side of things with the tools and platform. We provide, I call it the hybrid loan officer. Maybe you'd like to become one go to mortgagemarketing.pro. This week, we're turning the tables. My wonderful good friend, Carl White, who I've been a fan of. And brother for, we think it's been 15 years we talk on this podcast. So here's the thing, right? I asked Carl to be on the podcast because Carl is one of the most influential people in this industry is help tons of people be successful and build profitable businesses. You may have heard of him in the Freedom Club and the mortgage marketing animals, which you can go check both of those out. We'll provide links in the show notes for that as well. But Carl asked if he could turn the tables and ask me questions. And so I said, sure, I'm always up for a challenge, right? Step out of side of my conference zone. So on this episode, what you're going to hear is Carl asking me questions. It's not often that I get interviewed, I'd love more opportunities for that. But Carl's asking the questions on this episode and we have a surprisingly meaningful and impactful and I think conversation that moves us on one level, but also I think is inspirational for you if you're going to listen to this too. So I hope you enjoy it. If you did, hey, reach out to me, let me know. You can email me DM me on Facebook or leave a review, like I said earlier. So you know what we're going to do now. We're going to get into this week's show. Carl White, welcome to the show brother, it is great to hear to be here, Jeff, but you know, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of, we're buddies, right? Sir. Yeah, we've been friends. Dude, we've been friends a long time, Jeff. I know. I was thinking about that recently, it's at least 10 years. Oh, it's, it's at least 10 years. It's, I think it's more than that. I think it's close, probably closer to, probably closer to 15 if I'm kind of tracking back. Anyway, so I'm going to pull something on you here. So you were kind enough to reach out to me and said, hey, man, I'd like to interview for a podcast. And, and I listened to your podcast, which by the way, just was in, I think it was at Housing Wire. It was one of the top podcasts in the nation. Well, we're both featured in there. So yes, we're. But yeah, yes. Yeah. So awesome. Congratulations brother. And so I listen to your podcast all the time, dude, and dude, you do some great, you know, you do some great interviews and you're going to be humble and go, well, you know, whatever. But you and I both know you do some great, great, great interviews. But as I said, dude, nobody ever interviews you and you talk to all these people, all these loan officers and company owners and influencers and people that make all these great tools and the Dave savages and mortgage coach and boomerang and all this stuff that you do, nobody ever asked you about, what do you know? And so, so if you, if you don't mind, kind of turn the table here and you know, everybody knows we, this is a podcast that's recording, dude, if you don't like it, we can just delete it out. We'll do something else. But then edit all this stuff out. But I really would, I put together a couple questions here last evening when I was thinking about doing this. I'd like to ask you a couple questions and kind of interview you, is that, can we, it's kind of weird. It's kind of like going on the Johnny Carson show and say, yeah, wait, I want to interview Johnny. But dude, what a great interview. That would be, wouldn't it? I mean, really, it would be, that would be really cool. Yeah. So is it okay if I do that? Yes. I will do my best to answer the questions and deliver value. So, all right. I'm ready. Warmed up. Let's go, baby. All right. So, so, you know, dude, you've been doing this a long time and I think, you know, there's a couple of reasons why your podcast is so popular. So number one, it's great content and it is. But that's not the secret sauce. Your secret sauce is your energy. You have a fantastic energy level and it's what, it's what, dude, I just love you, man. I think you're just an awesome dude, right? And you've been helpful for me and I know lots of loan officers. But this enthusiasm you have, it's, it's, it's, I find it interesting. Like what is it about, like the mortgage and real estate industry, like that you just love? Like, where does this passion come, like, really, where does this passion come from? Yeah. That's a good question and that is accurate. It is a passion and I remember back to my early days, 2003 when I got in the business and I was, you know, making a decision about what direction I was going to go because I had recently stopped, you know, kind of being in the seminar business for Tony Robbins back on the day and all that kind of jet. So anyway, first and foremost, I think interestingly enough, the people, like the community of friends and network that I've maintained and I'm sure you have as well for 10 plus years in this industry is seems unique and different than as I look at other industries. And I don't know if that was so, how so? I mean, it's a little bit different than the real estate side, if I dare say so, meaning real estate agents, whereas I find generally we in the mortgage space, the mortgage professionals are much more open and willing to share that on the real estate agent side and not to go down that rabbit hole, but it's just I've never, never really had a situation where people like, Oh, no, I can't share that or I can't say that or that's just my thing, my own, you know what I mean? Because everybody's in, they understand what the struggle is, right? Let's face it, this is a hard industry and there are lots and lots of challenges over the years in this industry. But everything I think, at least the good people, right? That's who is in my world, let's say this, because I know there can be probably some people who maybe don't adhere to this, but I just forget the sense that we're all collectively here. And maybe I'm polyanna, like hoping, you know, kind of cheering on other success of results. So I don't know if that's the answer, like you were expecting, but also I kind of fell in love with this industry because the difference you can make, this is going to sound choosing cliche. But I remember like when I was doing first time homebuyers and during their first loans. And even like people who you're doing their second loan, their third loan or working with somebody who, you know, has a unique situation, self-employed and they want to buy a $2 million house and, you know, tax ride-offs and all, you get to solve problems, I guess. Yeah. That's what I love about this industry. I like solving problems and it's really cool to do that. Hmm. Hmm. That's very interesting. So, so is the, is like the problem solving, like your favorite part, or could I heard two things there? I heard people in problem solving and sharing, which by the way, I couldn't agree with you more that that is a very unique thing about this industry. And I find it particularly, I agree with you with the loan officers, we're really agents too, right? We're not throwing them under the bus, well, not, not completely under the legs. Yeah, yeah. Maybe the legs, but not the body, not their torso, you know, but, yeah, yeah, but, yeah, I have found the same thing, man, that like you go to loan officer conferences, man up there on stage, top producers, man, this is exactly what I do, you know, and, uh, and oftentimes, you know, holding nothing back. So, yeah, I, I could agree with that. Hey, well, speaking of which, though, all right, so there's another question I want to ask you just real quick. So you've interviewed a lot of loan officers, like a lot. And frankly, not just interviewed them, like here on the podcast, but just hanging out, you know, at the, dude, every time you're at a conference, it's like, you think that Brad Pitt had just walked across, you know, walked into the crowd, everybody's flocking to him, you know, kind of thing. But when, like, when you're talking with all these loan officers, these top producers, like is there any kind of, I don't know, like, what do you see in common? Like, what, what are they, either who they are or what they're doing or their habits or the systems they have, like, you know, like recurring themes that you see to the top producers? Yeah. Um, 100%. Uh, first and foremost, what comes up for me there is mindset. How they see themselves is different. And how they see their role is different, meaning, um, I would say most don't see themselves as a loan officer. They see themselves as a business owner and that drives everything. And I know you know, very well mindset is everything, right? It's like that old, that old thing we've seen that meme, that post of the, the cat looking in the mirror and sees a lion. Yeah. Right? I think that's what, that's what some of the more successful LOs I've seen is they see themselves as that lion. Um, now that doesn't mean they got there immediately or overnight, but at some point you got to realize, right, that you need, it's all how you see yourself. Do you see yourself as a salesperson or a business owner because everything will, will, will, will change based on that perception or mindset about yourself. How you set up your business, your structure, how you communicate, right? How committed you are to improvement, soup to nuts. That's the, if I would say if there's an any overarching thing, that's it for me. And then we can get into like, you know, other systems and processes, but that's the first step. You know, it, that kind of reminds me of a thing, um, uh, you know, you know, Perry Belcher, right? Yeah. I learned a lot from that, dude, man. He's, he's, he's, he's, uh, he's an awesome, not in this industry, you know, he's in a different industry, but he taught me something one time. He said, uh, Carl, let me tell you something. Good sales people think sales is a good thing. And bad sales people think sales is a bad thing. And I think it's having that mindset of the, the top producers have this mindset of, I, I have a product that helps people, and I'm going to let as many people as I know, know that. And the people that worry about what I don't want to be salesy, yeah, that, that's not going to work out so well, you know, or I don't want to be, I don't know, you know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, what do you think that I got? So what do you think? What, what is that? What is it that I'm a loan officer and, but yet I don't let all my friends and family, I don't, I don't have a call to action. Like anytime I'm talking with friends and family members, I hold off and like, well, they know what I do. I don't want to be pushy. Yeah. What is that that holds us back when we know if we made more offers, like if we let more, if we actually ask for the business more, we'd close more loans. Yeah. What do you think it is? Which the top producers, that goes, this goes back to the top producers. What do you think that it is that holds the average loan officer, the, here, better question. What do you think it is that holds the average loan officer back? Now, on the context of asking, I think it's fear of rejection, fear of judgment, fear of rejection. How do you overcome that? That's a great question, because I've definitely dealt with that myself. And I think it gets down to, at some point, you've got to accept the fact that if you have done the work, so to speak, air quotes, done the work, meaning you actually know what you're talking about. It reminds me of, like, lately, I've been listening to Alex Ramozi, you know, he is, yes, guy. And so he talks about putting content out there and, you know, what's good content. And one of the things he says is, well, first of all, do something, like do good shit, is what he says, and then tell people about what you do. And I think the more good you do, the more results you get, the better job you do for people to the level at which you actually care about helping people solve problems, right? Your belief is going to go up for that, if that makes sense, a little bit of a long road to get there. But I think to your question about how do you change that is, you know, more results for sure, you know, and you having actual knowledge, knowledge that you can actually make a difference with the knowledge you have and you engage to somebody, does that make sense? Yeah. So what you're saying is, is worth the nose or the risk of the nose is worth the benefit of helping those people to say yes. Well, and again, that goes back to mindset too, right? You got to understand that failure is part of the game, right? And that's just like, you know, when you're driving across country and you're seeing those little mile markers along the road, like some of those are going to be failure, you know I mean, I used to keep driving, man, that's just like, okay, you're on your north star is that destination. And there's going to be some road stops and failures, mile markers, et cetera, along the way, you know, and that's just, oh, another one, okay, they said no, we're shit screwed that up. Whoops. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like that. Yeah, I think it's really that. So dude, I think we all suffer with it, right? It's just some, some take, keep, let that keep them from all the wonderful things they could have and helping so many other people. And it keeps them from that and others do it anyway, just simply push through it and they help people. Hey, on these top producers, any particular systems or anything that they're using, like that you see in common, like, like, like, or something that they're doing that, that the average one officer isn't doing. Yeah, I think first and foremost is they don't wing it. They don't wing it what they say. They actually have a predefined dialogue or talk track. There I say scripting, yeah, that dirty word, because a lot of people have associations to the word scripting, right? But I think there's a book I love and I interviewed this guy in the podcast. It's exactly what to say when you need to say it or something like that, Phil Jones, and he wrote that version specific for the real estate industry. But one of the things he said is the worst time to think about what to say is in the moment you need to say it. I was like, that's pretty brilliant, man, because somebody says no, or the rates too high, or no, I'm not going to send you a referral. Like, what do you like? Your brain's got to come up with an answer then? No, it's like, you better know what your response is to that, you know what I mean? I do that. I've always thought of, I like scripts, I mean, like you, like what you're saying, I look, if you ask me my phone number, I'm going to give you the exact sequence of numbers every single time. It's a script because if I change that up in any way, shape, or form and substitute one of those numbers for another one, we're not going to get the same result. When you go out to reach out to call me, you're not going to get, I'm not going to have the opportunity to speak to you because it was the wrong script, the wrong number was given there. And so I think like, you know, when people ask, what's your rate or why should I refer to you? Brother, if you don't have a, if you don't have a, as my friend Steve Kiles calls it, conversations by design, if you don't have a design conversation, would that answer already a mind of how to answer that? Brother, you're going to get spanked by the one that does. I'm just telling you. So there's no way, we call it the rectal extraction method. There's no way you're going to pull it out of your butt. Yeah. An answer that somebody else has practiced that same answer. So I like that. So it's script any any other specific system? Yeah. Well, you said the key word system. You know, I'm thinking about my old friend, Derek, calling him Michael Gerber, author of the emath and stuff. Michael many, many years ago and had interviewed him as well and spent some time with him and his wife. And so if any, you know, anything about Michael Gerber, he's always about the system as the solution, right? And most people spend too much time working in their business instead of on their business, right? And so what I've seen from top producers is they have systems in place for client acquisition, for client fulfillment, for everything soup to nuts. Now I know this is at various levels based on where you're at your career, if you're just starting out, you're going to build these things as the planes flying, right? So I'll speak. But you've got to have systems in place for all those things and a process. It's funny. Whenever I get interviewed, I get all these little quotes and cliches coming back in my head. And I remember Edward Stemming. Edward Stemming. I have not. He was the guy who was the father of the total quality movement. And so back in the, you know, after it was at World War II, he actually went over to Japan and helped the Japan car manufacturers with their quality movement, right? This is an American guy, right? Called over there to help Japan improve their quality, their output of their products for the auto industry. And of course, we know Japan kicked our ass for a number of years in the auto industry. Fast forward long, long story short, he came over and obviously did the same thing for the US. But the point is he was an expert about systems and quality. And one of the things he said was, if you can't describe what you do as a process, you don't have a process. And I was like, that's what I've seen from top loan us officers is everything is a process. You're defined, you know, lead comes in call, you know, I mean, souped and not processing, post-close. It's all a process. Hey, I, you know, a couple, a few minutes ago, you mentioned that you used to work for Tony Robbins. Mm-hmm. Fantastic, amazing guy, of course. What's, what's one thing you learned from him? Well, a few things are top of it in my head, but uh, that you can, that you can report here on the podcast. Exactly. Um, man, that's, I haven't, I'm, you caught me off guard with that one. Um, hmm, I'm, I'm like tap, I'm hitting this emotional side right now, I'm like, you know, what's the impact he made on, on my life on that journey way back then? Um, and maybe that's it, man, maybe, maybe make an impact called people that aren't watching this, uh, we're on a podcast, you and I are on a zoom where watch these other, I can, I can see the emotion on your face here with that question. That's, uh, that's impressive, actually, um, well, all right, so give you the context of that his, his book, his first book in limited power was the book I read, which, which caused me to want to go work for him. And it was the first time, like I had read other personal development books, like, um, you know, finger a rich and, uh, the Norman Vincent peel and all that kind of jazz. And I literally remember, I'm living in Maine and living at my parents house, I'll, you know, reading these books and I'm like, working on myself and all that stuff. And his book was the first book I read where the lights went on. It was like, you can control this thing right here, this brain pointing out my head for those, uh, um, but you can control your mind. You can control the dialogue you have with yourself, the questions you ask yourself. You can control how you forecast your vision, like how you see your, and I was just like, Holy shit, nobody's ever like said that before, right? And I'm like, I can absolutely, Carl, it sounds funny. I said this to myself. You mean I can actually take control of my life and do what I want to do with it? Like to me, that was like earth shattering. You know, that, that sounds a lot, um, and I know other people might have said this in the past, but the first time I heard it, we're from a lady, her name is, uh, Lee Miltier. Sure. Yeah. Lee Miltier, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So she taught me, she said something to me one time that was a, I've had a, probably, you could count on one hand. What I would call life changing moments, and this was one of them. She said, Carl, you're the director, you're the producer, and you're the writer of your story. And the wonderful thing is you get to choose the scripting. You get to choose the supporting cast, right, big one, um, and do not ever, ever, ever hand that ink pen to somebody else, right? That's your ink pen. You get to decide who's in your movie with you and what role do you play and what role do they play? And so it sounds like that same kind of thing what you're talking about with Tony. So it's interesting. The visualization of that with like people in your lives and you get to script and write the whole thing. And yeah. Yeah. Well, I can tell you, man, on a personal level, there is no other person that I would, uh, having you as, uh, uh, uh, in the cast of my story, um, it's been a really good ride, man. It has. So it's been a really good ride. So I, uh, I, uh, I'm glad I, I'm glad I wrote that chapter, uh, the day that we met. I don't even remember where we met. Do you remember where we met? I can't. And Kennedy event. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. But I know we, we, we, we've done out at different events and whatnot. We recorded a video together at some hotel, like 10 years ago, I think Michael Fito was there if that thing. I still have that video. I still have that video. I have to bring that out. I've got a paper plate out. That's right. That's a million dollar paper plate. So, uh, I'll, I'll dig that out. I still got that. I'll dig that out. That'll be awesome. That'll be fun to watch. So, uh, hey, um, uh, uh, like right now, we find ourselves in a changing market, right? And so as we're recording this today, um, what can or should loan officers be currently doing with the current market to get business now and to build like the future pipeline? Sure. What, uh, what, what action items, what, what action or what, what should they be doing now with, with, uh, today's more anything different than last year? Is it like the same thing? Yes. Different. Lots different than last year because all you did last year was trying to facilitate the ReFi volume, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's what we did for the last two years is we were facilitators because it was like the friggin tsunami of refives was hitting the shores and you're just like scrambling to put the, you know, handle the volume. You didn't have to sell. You didn't have to market. You didn't have to work on your script. Your mindset, everything was great. Maybe champagne, corks popping, right? All that kind of jazz, paddle service, I mean, it's like the visual that everybody is living off of high on the hog and all of a sudden that your tsunami has like sucked out, gone back out. And then you see who's naked, right? Because you're like, oh, my God, right? There's a, I love this quite. I forget who asked this question years ago. Are you successful because of the market or because of your marketing, right? And for obviously for two years, we were successful because of the market, like you made more money ever made and like, I don't think anybody smart people knew that this wasn't going to last forever. There was going to be a hangover, right? And so some people have a hangover today. So what do you, what do you got to do? Well, I'm a big believer in, like I have written down on my whiteboard here, be brilliant in the basics, fundamentals. I think of like, who's the famous Green Bay coach, right? The football coach. Vince Lombardi. Vince Lombardi, fundamentals, baby, right? Be brilliant in the fundamentals and what are the fundamentals? It's database, stay in touch with your database, reach out to them. It is, so I've been playing with this term, like hybrid loan officer. And what I mean by that is a hybrid loan officer, I think this is kind of the yellow of the future, is you've got to maintain the fundamentals, which is past client database, sphere of influence, referral parts, et cetera, like that, I don't think that that's your go-to guarantee. That's your eat your spinach, take your vitamins, get your sleep, you're going to have a healthy business. Then what you layer on to that is, you know, more of the modern stuff, this is where the hybrid word comes in, is then you layer on to that your digital presence, right? Whatever that means, social media, that means where the Google paper click ads, that means having a digital presence and active digital presence, so you can have a net lines in the water, right, to capture what's obvious is people getting business from digital. I think that's the other side of the coin that you also need to play, moving forward, because we know that's where the attention is going to be. There's some good stuff there, one thing you're dead on, for the last couple of years, I mean, we were all patting ourselves on the back saying how awesome amazing we are, it's like you're on a bicycle going down a hill, going down the mountain side with a 50-mile hour win on your backside, of course we did great. I literally got alone while checking my male, because my male man, I went out to go check my male, I'm walking out there, he's pulling up at the same time just by chance, same male man for, I don't know, seven years or so for a long time, and I'm walking out there, we always do our little, I don't know, a couple of times a month, we happen to be out there at the same time, we do our wave and whatnot, and he stopped me and he said, hey Carl, let me have something, you're in the mortgage business, right, because I see your male that comes in, and you're in the mortgage business, right? Yeah, me and the Mrs has been thinking about refinancing, and just didn't know if it was a good time, we okay if we reach out to you, you know, you're somebody I trust, so literally I was checking my male, and we had a loan come in, right? So, that's the mailbox money right there. Do you know a guy named Jim Reed by chance? I don't think so. I was listening to Jim Reed, I heard him on a podcast, and a really smart guy, and he said, I'm going to work for the next two years, that would be the work that I should have had to done for the last two years to make the kind of money that I made. So, for the next two years, I'm going to do the work that should have been required to make the same amount of money I made for the last two years, and I thought, man, what a great perspective on that. So, I thought that was really interesting. Hey, all right, so what L.O. should be doing right now is what I hear you is fundamentals, and I like the way you say it, and then stack the digital stuff on top of it. It's not one or the other, it's a stacking process, and I catch that right? Yeah, I just think, look, it's digital sexy, right? And there's a lot of people pushing, promoting digital, and you see people talking about, I interview people all the time, who get deals from digital. Whatever that is, fill in the blank. I interview a guy from Australia who got 5,000 leads with a 10% conversion from TikTok. Now, some people hear that, and they're like, they'll say, well, that's it, I need to go and be on TikTok. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, right? You got to understand the context and all that kind of jazz and what's right for you. So my point, I guess, in saying that is, yes, they should be focusing on the fundamentals first, and then build your house first, contact your past client, contact your before. I mean, one simple thing is, how many deals did you close in the past year with listing agents that you have no relationship with? And I know you know this web very well. Your community trains on all this, but that's low-hang and fruit. One of the things that I'm coaching my L.O.s on is to call those listing agents or others you have relationships with and just be like, hey, Carl, what's up? Jeff blah, blah, blah, blah. Context. Hey, so obviously the market has shifted. And I'm just curious, how's this impacted your business plan for the rest of the year? Like, what changes are you going to make and how can I help? Like, you know what I mean, that's another just very simple script that anybody can do. How do you, so like L.O. officers reach out to you? How do you help them? What's your secret sauce? What's a, what's what, how do you help L.O. officers? So I help them with the fundamentals primarily. And then, you know, we also do things on the digital side, but primarily what I do is I help L.O. officers create referrals on demand for middle-state agents. And we do that by leading with an educational platform of classes. So they'll go into their local market or over Zoom. They'll teach agent classes to to realtors. They'll get, you know, 10, 20, 30 agents in a room and they'll have immediate conversations. You know, out of that, if you get 20 agents in a room and you do it well and you follow the system, you should easily get three or four conversations immediately booked before you leave the room. Which, of course, leads to referrals. So, you know, we give them the whole system plug and play on all the classes and templates and help them fill the room, souped in UTS. And that's kind of primarily what I do. Brother, I can tell you right now that set of activities has moved the needle for me the most in my mortgage career, literally, than any other single thing, for sure. That that, I became like a staple diet down at the local real estate association. In our case, a young lady that is the, you know, works the desk there. Brother, I became her new best friend, you know. And so they would call us up, like I got to get calls from her sometimes. It'd be like literally seven o'clock at night. Hey, we're supposed to have somebody speak in the morning, you know, whatever. They broke their ankle. They're dog ate their homework or something like that. We need somebody at 9 o'clock tomorrow. Can you, can you, can you step in and help? Yes, I can. That has been a really, really good thing. And having somebody help produce a proven here, teach this type of stuff would be an awesome, awesome, awesome thing to have. Like for you personally, I'm going to ask you kind of a personal question if I can. For you personally, what's been your biggest business related challenge in your career? What's been the hardest thing for you personally? Open the curtain up a little bit and let us look inside. Open the curtain up. No judgment. So we touched on it earlier with mindset, but specifically for me and mindset, and I think you and I talked about this last time we chatted, you know, you're in your own little world. You're in your own little head and you want to make a difference. You want to help people. But for me personally, I would always, let's just say this imposter syndrome comparison mode. Looking at quite honestly, people like you, people like bear a hippie, people like Todd Duncan, whatever. And I'm like, okay, so I'm going to try and go to the market with this thing. And I'm like, gosh, is this really going to make a difference? Like am I ever going to be considered? Okay, okay. I got to stop the ever just second. Yeah. Dude, this is so freaky. So dude, I'm intimidated by you. Oh, stop. I'm not saying this to be funny. Like you and I are brothers. Yeah. I'm telling you, I'm not that you're an intimidating guy. You know, when I saw the, you know, when I reached out to you and said, hey, I'd like to be on the podcast. I was like, God, I hope he says yes. You know, and I'm sitting there going, man, I'm sorry. Isn't that funny? You know, you know what that is, that's, that goes back to a thing. I think a mutual friend of ours, Frank Kern, taught me this. He said, Carl, people don't think about you near as much as you think they do. They're too worried about what you think of them. And, uh, isn't that funny? I think that imposter syndrome, everybody deals with it, everybody, everybody. I've met like you have. I've met some, uh, like famous, you know, like real famous people and, uh, and talked, I talked, uh, I've met with some famous political figures. I'm not going to say who because, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've met with both sides, right? Just I love hanging out with successful people like you and, uh, and even, even these nationally known, everybody knows their name political, you know, when you're having lunch alone and having a very open, uh, you know, intimate, per se conversation, they too, have this imposter syndrome. I had to stop you because as you were saying, like, you feel like you had to measure up. I swear, I think the same thing when I think of you. Isn't that funny? It is funny. And I don't know. Yeah. Where does that come from, man? I don't know. I wish I could work through that, but you're right. Everybody suffers with it. And then what's interesting, you, often the not, right? You tell me as you find out that more often than not, not always. But the person is, is, is like cool and humble and, you know, pretty chill. Almost always. In fact, if they're being totally honest, I would say always, just sometimes I still play that front, I call it a wall. They got that wall up that they're trying to, you know, hide behind, you know, so to speak. And so I'd say always, if I given that, if I, if I'm given an ample opportunity to really get to know them or them, me, you know, works both ways, of course, that, that, you know, I think it goes back to people, which goes back really to loan officers reaching out to real estate agents. They're not near as big and bad as we, you know, I'm thinking of the big bad wolf kind of thing. I mean, bad netizens. They're not nearly as big and bad as we think they are, because they're, they're concerned about what I'm going to think of them. Yeah, so related. When I was marketing to agents back early, early in the day, I was freaking scared to go after these big hitters, you know, dude, I'm still scared. Yes, not was. It is. I'm still scared. You know, that's like, that's like you and I both do a lot of speak, which by the way, anybody's listening to this, if you ever need a great speaker, Jeff is a phenomenal, you're a phenomenal, uh, uh, uh, uh, presenter. You're just an absolutely spectacular presenter. And, and, and I lost my train of thought of where I was going with that. It's big hunt. We're hunting, you know, big bad wolf. I was scared of agents. And you said, yeah, so anyway, they're, they're, they're, I think everybody's, uh, everybody has that, has that fear. And I think it's just, uh, you know, there was a book. The book was just okay. The title was phenomenal. So the title was feel the fear and do it anyway. And, uh, well, that simple, uh, that simple thought has been a game changer for me is, uh, just feel the fear and do it anyway. Uh, with Jeff, I, uh, uh, you, you, you told me, uh, right before we hit the record button, uh, you and I can sit here and talk for literally hours upon hours. You said, hey, man, somehow we got to keep this to somewhere around drive time 30 minutes or so. Is, is there anything I should have asked you on, on, on, uh, this, uh, reverse interview, thing? I think we had to call that reverse interview TM, little T, little, um, you know, like, I think I should have asked you that I didn't, um, I'll just take your, take your humble hat off. Take one of them. Well, for anybody who wants to learn more about what I do with the agent classes and wants to get referrals on demand for middle estate agents, I suggest you go to mortgagemarketing.pro, go check that out. There's a video I put up there. It'll show you everything. And if it's for you, great mortgagemarketing.pro. And, uh, let's, let's both all of us together work through our comfort zone and our imposter syndrome and get you in front of more agents and get more referrals. I can tell you, there's a, there's a fantastic thing that comes with teaching. And I call it the golden apple in every known society. A teacher is always held on a pedestal. Like always. And there's this interesting thing that, uh, again, I call it the golden apple that once somebody teaches us something, and we can all relate to this, once somebody teaches us something, we hold them in great, great reverend, right? And we want to, you know, the whole thing of bringing the teacher and apple. It's not the brown nose or whatever it is. It's, it's a gratitude thing. It's like you, you, you, you want to do that. And I know some of my great teachers, dude, I'll write them pretty good sized checks to teach me. And I still feel like I owed them, you know, like I, like I want to, I want to, I want to give back to them. And that's where, when we teach real estate agents, they want, they, it's just an inherent thing. They want to get back to us and how they get back to us is, is referrals. So it's a, it's a remarkable thing. And, and you said something earlier, I want to make sure everybody got after you teach somebody, when you reach out to try to set a coffee appointment, it's a much higher conversion ratio because they know you. And you're, how do you say it? Like, like a local celebrity of sorts. Sure. Well, like, like, like, like, like the weatherman or, or the weather lady or something like that. It's a, it's a very interesting dynamic. And I found that teaching, it's been a really, really, really good thing for me. So, great, dynamic. Yep. Good, good stuff, man. Thank you. Dude, absolute honor being on your show, man. This was a fascinating interview. So all these things I always wanted to ask in and just, just never had the chance to. And so, I appreciate you letting us turn the tables on this. And, hey, can I ask you one more? Sure. If, if, um, what do you think for loan officers? Like, what's one problem when sobbed? Um, solves 50 other problems for them. And, and maybe, maybe it goes right back to this teaching thing. Yeah, I know the answer to that already. The answer is, the answer is client acquisition. Um, I mean, that's the, the number one thing for any business, right? Once you get that solved, everything else becomes easier. And, and you know what's cool about the real estate agent thing, man? So, it hurts my save one time. So Carl, I don't want all my, all my loans coming from one source. Well, dude, get two agents. And now you have two sources. Get 10 agents. And now you have 10 sources. That's good. Good answer. Yeah. So it's like, dude, that's not what, if you, if you've only got one agent, one source, you've got a problem. I agree with that. It's much, much, much, much, much more stable, having a bunch of agents, rather than, and I love the digital marketing, right? I love it. We do a lot of it. But here's the thing about the digital marketing. I am one person's decision at Facebook where they turn my ads off. And I'm out. Right. We had that happen here just not too long ago. Like, like literally, as recorded, true story, we literally had that happen three days ago. And Nina, who's one that run my ad, she said, Hey, just FYI, we're, we're in Facebook jail. We don't even know why. We run like you do super clean stuff, right? Super, super clean. And Facebook, like literally, turn off our ads. And so while that's a very good thing to do, and we do it, if that was my only source of business, right? Man, would have been in trouble right there. So, uh, so I love the agent thing. So it's such a diversification. And you get this army of agents looking for, uh, referrals for you. Exactly. And, uh, God, what better business can, can, it's just a wonderful business. So Jeff, thanks again, brother. I really appreciate you and honored to be on your show looking for it, hanging out again soon, buddy. Same here, Carl. Appreciate it very much, man. You take care. Okay. Bye-bye. Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that episode and special guest. Most importantly, always remember to never leave the scene of an idea without putting it into action. So, whenever the one big idea, one takeaway is from this episode, please make sure you create a plan around that, write it down, put a reminder in your calendar for you, follow through and get some of the resources that were shared and just make sure to take action so you can build momentum on your ideas. And then, of course, if you're interested in more agent referrals and less time with less struggle and building a platform that attracts agents to you and helps you find the best agents in your local area that are actually doing the business and generating referrals on demand, just like Liz Reyes Laforez does is she recently hosted a class and had 39 agents registered for her class, 15 agents attended. Immediately following the class, she got three new purchase loan leads and scheduled two appointments immediately after the class. That's just within less than 24 hours of the class. If you want results like that for yourself, make sure to check out the my agent classes and mortgage marketing pro membership over at mortgagemarketing.pro for more information and I'll see you on the next one. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchase loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates, real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top elbows, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro.