Closing $80 Million in a Challenging Market

Hey, what's up, Jeff Zimper, host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Appreciate your being here. Hey, a couple of notes of housekeeping before we bring on today's special guest. If you're liking the episodes, you've been listening a while or your new listener, I appreciate you being here. And we'd love to hear your feedback on the podcast. You know, you can do to help us out. Just take about 60 seconds or less and leave us a quick review wherever you're listening to this right now. You should be easy to tap through, click through it and get over to leave us a review. And I'd appreciate that because that's how we help reach more people and stay in the top rankings on Apple Spotify podcasts. So I appreciate if you can do that. And then of course, you know Mortgage Marketing Radio. This is the place that we help loan officers get more agent referrals so they can become the go to lender in their local market. How do we do that? We help you implement a proven system for attracting, engaging and converting agents to conversations and referrals at scale. As above the noise, leap frog from being seen as a solicitor and a vendor to a partner and appear. How do you do that? You do that with positioning. You do that with branding. You do that with leading with education and helping agents solve problems. You've heard about it by now. Our mortgage marketing pro members are getting attention, engagement and conversations with real estate agents and they're not having a call call. They're not having to chase. They're not having to do broker reviews, open houses. They're not having to co-pay for leads. They're simply becoming the preeminent, most attractive, obvious choice in their local market for real estate agents by leading with education. Got a brand new testimonial for you here. This week, here it is on my hand out right here and this comes to you by way of one of our pro members, longtime pro member Janelle Davis from Maryland. I believe three years now with us. She just hosted our 90 day CMA class, which this class actually shows agents how to use Google Earth and to send unsolicited CMAs to their database and lead sources using a really cool video technique using Google Earth and a video email that literally gets people to open the email to watch the video and to schedule conversations to learn more. As a matter of fact, I've done this myself in Vegas a number of times. We've had a few teams do this and they get listings, they get appointments. One of our pro members, Janelle, has taught this class a couple of times now. She recently completed the class. Here's her testimonial right here in front of me, 28 agents attended. How long does it take you to get in front of 28 agents? Better question. What type of value propositioning and positioning, right, who'd you have in front of 28 agents versus one by one on a call call and the disadvantage that that puts you at? Janelle has a class of 28 agents in it are eight high producing agents and the class is so well received and Janelle gets acknowledged this way. One of the realtors who has attended several of her classes sends her a text message or an email, I believe, that says, hey, Janelle, just wanted to, you know, thanks to your class I'm sending videos to my sphere of influence. I've done eight videos so far and have about another 140 to go doing five per week and he goes on to say a few more things. Thanks again for such a value right in class and I'll see you for the Google My Business class. Guys, the name of the game right now is market share, right, capturing the attention of real estate agents because look at, yes, agents are leaving, yes, law and officers leaving. Good news. That means less noise, less of that distraction and now agents are going to be able to hear your value proposition more clearly and seeking, right, a lender relationship and a partnership that actually goes above and beyond the normal, which is close loans on time and do a good job. Anybody can do that. If you can actually help agents solve problems in today's market, vis-a-vis the example I just gave you help agents get more listings. You win. Now, how do you learn more about this? If it's a fit for you, you go to mortgagemarketing.pro, you book a call with me and we walk through your business where you're at, where do you want to go? Are you the right fit for us or not? We'll show you the platform. We'll show you the classes. We'll show you how we help you get butts and seats and convert and follow those up to conversations and manage the whole process. Mortgagemarketing.pro. Go check it out. All right. This week, my special guest is somebody who I've come to really enjoy following and engaging with on Instagram. It is Paige Bowman, the Htown Mortgage Check on Instagram. We're going to put a link to her Instagram profile in the show notes, but she's a founder and teen leader at the Mortgage Collective in Houston. She's a top female mortgage lender and she is crushing it in Houston. I got to reference my notes here because we just finished the conversation and I think she said she's going to do 80 million this year. She's on track to do 80 million in this year, right, 2023 in a quote unquote down market in a tough market, right? So what I love about Paige is, first of all, she's just real and who doesn't these days want more of real. But we're going to unpack. Speaking of real. We're going to talk about her strategies for attracting agents on Instagram, for attracting consumers on Instagram, her processes that she has in place, how she does events, and bottom line how she's building a very compelling brand that is helping her grow and scale her business to record numbers, even in a down market. So if you like what you hear on this episode, make sure you click the link in the show notes to follow Paige over there on Instagram. And I think you'll be not only entertained but educated and informed about how to actually build a personal brand on social media and work with real estate agents. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show, Paige, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. And as a pleasure, congratulations on you creating such a presence on Instagram that it sucked me in. It's like a vortex. That's right. And I don't know how you, you know, you never know how people show up on your feed, but you did. Clearly, I'm a lot of mortgage related real estate stuff. Yes. I showed up on my feed and I'm like, whoa, wait a minute, this girl's putting on some pretty cool content. Like it's highly professional. It's engaging. Thank you. And before we get into that, for those listening, give us the brief background or calling you a bit in the biz units, number one source of biz. Yeah, for sure. So I got into the business in May of 2014. I have been a licensed originator since 2018 and took over the team that I run in May of 2021. And from May to December of 2021, we closed about 75 to 80 million. And then all of last year did about 85 million with a move in between all of that. So and just, you know, I know 2021 COVID numbers are like, oh, I did this much in COVID. We're still on pace to do about that this year. So I'm a number one source of business right now is realtors. Realtors. Okay. Great. I love that distinction as well. I got to start asking, what are your non-COVID numbers? What did you do before COVID and what are you planning on doing this year? And what is your balance of purchase versus re-fi, roughly? You know, I think we've closed one re-fi this year. But even during COVID, we specifically did not lean into re-fives. I think on average, we would close about five to seven percent re-fives and actually just sent off those re-fives and get paid on just referring them out to people because I wanted to make sure that we stayed heavy on purchase because re-fives come and go, but your realtor relationships and any relationships that you have that feed you business will always be there and re-fi them and post re-fi them. Yeah. So I'm pausing purposely there for a moment because a lot of people hear that and they're like, what? What are you doing? We could have closed $200 plus million during COVID and we probably referred out, you know, in the course of 24 months, I would probably say, you know, $65 to $85 million worth of business. Did you have some kind of rev share on that or was it all goodbye? No, we got obviously basis points production on it, very small amount, but still worth it enough to be able to focus on our realtor relationships and we specifically told clients that we're giving you to this person who solely does re-fives. They're going to treat you 10 times better than we are because we are focused on our purchase business and we want to make sure that you're getting the same customer care and the same client care as all of our purchase business. Oh, there's a statement right there. That's a writer downer. A writer downer, I like that. I'm like, I got a writer downer for you all. It makes me wonder how that re-fi shop air quotes is doing now. You know, I don't know. I don't know. We'll leave it at that. Leave it at that. Just curious. Don't want to, you know, ruffle any feathers. But no, I just love that you really take a stance on that and you communicate to those potential clients as to why, you know, you're doing that and back to your referral partners as well. That just, that thing's courage is what it takes. It was definitely, it's one of those things that, like, when you're short-sighted, all you think about is, oh my gosh, think about how much volume I'm missing. But when I go alongside, I think about how many more realtor relationships that we gained because we were all in unpurchased. And I'm still closing the same little bit. We're a little down on business this year, but we're still closing about the same as we did last year, which was $85 million, which is, you know, pretty good, I think. And that's because we've gained realtor relationships when loan officers were losing them because their pipeline was full of re-fives. Wow. You know, there's a little coming up for me during this conversation because you, you, from what I can gather are, how would you classify yourself? Millennial? I am a millennial. I'm proud to be a millennial. Yes. Okay. You are younger, younger than me, at least. Yes. You know, like, there's a narrative that seems to be bubbling up for some people. There's a larger percentage of people than I hear the narrative through you and what I'm hearing right now is, but page, the market sucks. No one does it. Like, it doesn't suck for you. Right? Yeah. I mean, I, I hear you. I talked to loan officers all around the country almost every single day that tell me the exact same thing. Oh, the market's trash, realtors, uh, realtor relationships. We have had realtors that have literally just gone out of the business. I can't, I'm not, this is not sustainable. I'm going back to my job that I was doing before real estate. Right. Okay. So, but what's the difference? Why are you, how are you different than, you know? Yeah, consistency. We've really been consistent. Um, we have, we've stayed, uh, top of mind with mailers. I know that sounds silly, but we are old school. Um, um, was any of those old school, amen? Yes. Listen, I like taking notes on a notepad. I have a notepad that I take notes on. Yep. I have one of those right here. We send mailers, um, every month, and I am in front of my people every single day on social media. I post consistently every single day and consistent is different for every single person. Consistent for Sally might be three times a week and consistent for a bob might be, you know, seven times a day. Um, but consistency is really what you have to do in this market. Um, and you have to be in front of people because content equals contracts. Um, and if I can be producing content and I can be in front of somebody, when we're consuming content, not to be weird, but we are not taking up. No one's taking my mailer with them to the restroom. You know what's going to the restroom with them? Yes. They're phone, right? Yeah. If you're grabbing people's phones, you probably shouldn't know that I've said that. And hopefully you're cleaning your phones at least, you know, once a week. But I mean, seriously, we are with them in their most intimate moments. Right. And if you have the ability to connect with people like that, whether it be realtors or referral sources or past clients at a past client reached out to me last night, or a day page, we worked with you before. We are relocating and ready to buy our dream home. Do you have time to chat this weekend? I know you're probably super busy. And I was like, Hey, man, I'm never too busy for you. Um, my cell phone number is the same. You know, what's, you know, can I confirm that I have your correct cell phone number, went into our CRM real quick at 10 o'clock last night whenever I was answering her, sent her email at her telephone number. And she's like, I can't believe that you still have that. I was like, you're important to me. Like, you're, that's important that I have that. It's important that I'm able to communicate with you. And they reach out to me on social media. And so it's just, you know, being in front of people you never know, again, you never know who's looking. Yeah, that's interesting real quick note on that is what does that say about the expectation of the consumer to be surprised that you have their mobile. Very low. Right. And so it's easy to win if you like show up. Yeah. Back to the mailers for a second. Who were you? Those two. We sent them out to our thousand, our thousand people. It's our most recent thousand past clients. Okay. And so what that looks like is we use reaching neighbors. And so reaching neighbors is awesome. We actually customize our. Customize our. We're using these retailers via Canva. And doesn't take a rocket science to do that. Reaching neighbor also has some good templates. But we really. We know that, you know, thousands of other maybe not thousands literally, but, you know, hundreds of other loan officers are using those same templates. And so we want to be different and we want to be unique. So this past month and June. We sent out the top five things to do in the Houston area for summer because if you have kids or if you don't have kids, it's cool to know what there's, which are able to do. In February, we had moved in November, and we'd been sending out every single month something that said we moved. We've moved, we've moved, we've moved, because the average consumer needs to see something seven to 10 times to know that it's happened. That's just human nature. And we did, hey, if you send us back an email at team at mtgcollective.com, we'll give you a $5 Starbucks or Duncan gift card. Just tell us which one you want. Mm, Hanako. I spent a lot of money on this. I love it, that's a good time. I spent a lot more money than I thought. I mean, of the thousand that we sent out, I maybe had 200 reply back to me. Yeah, but one loan, obviously, covers it. Literally, yeah, one loan. And now my email address, my team email address, is in their phone as a email address that they have communicated with. And our CRM uses that team email address. And so now it's an email address that they're used to seeing and they're like, oh, so it's not going to spam. So if it was going to spam, now that they've communicated with it, it's no longer going to spam. And they're going to start getting my emails. Friendly now. Do you do any QR codes on those mailers? I don't, you know, we did those all during COVID and I've just stopped with the QR code. Are they postcards? They are postcards, yep. All right, cool. Yeah, I'd be curious to see. I'm sure you guys have some type of engaging, maybe slightly funny humorists or people to them. It's anybody who follows your brand, which we'll put links in the show notes, to your Instagram, right? That is part of the personality that shines through. Yeah, I mean, you got to have fun. Like this is not a glamorous job. This is not a, I mean, it's a cool job, but it's not a glamorous job by any means. And you've got to have some humor. You got to laugh every once in a while. Yeah, love that. Man, there's a lot to cover here. Okay, so number one source is real tours. And so we launched off that thing, the market sucks. You covered that. It only sucks. Wow, it's a sock. It's mindset. Then how have you done anything differently with realtors? Have you pivoted or changed anything in the current market, right? With realtors specifically? Yeah, so we don't really, I say yes, but I also want to say no. It's really just being consistent and providing them value. If your realtor is wanting you to give them money for something, you're not in the right relationships. We're in an intimate relationship with our realtors, meaning that if I don't want to go to dinner with you with my spouse, if I don't want to go to vacation with you, if I don't want to hang out with you, you're not the person that I want to work with. And so far often we find, you know, I talk to a ton of loan officers, people will ask me, how are you so close with them? Like, well, they're my people. Like there are people I want to be in business with. And if they're not, we don't drive. And that's okay. Like, I'm okay with that. And so I just, we're in an intimate relationship with all of our referral partners, but with that we provide them value and none of them ever asked for, can you sponsor my open house and give me $250? Because they know that I'm going to provide them value. And sure, ever once in a while, someone might say, hey, could you, you know, would you help sponsor a team lunch? And I'm quick to say yes, because I'm not getting asked for that money every single week or every single month by 10, 20, 30 realtors. I spend a very small amount of my money on realtors because I'm providing them value. And when I do spend money, we're having, we're typically doing like, lunch, we're going, you know, I'm inviting them over to my pool and we're having a pool day. Like we're doing something fun, where it's enjoyable for all of us and it's not work related. And then I also say that we do thank you cards, handwritten thank you cards, every single lead that someone sends to us within a week. Every Friday, my assistant gets me, my handwritten thank you cards that are addressed with the stamp on it and a $5 Starbucks gift card. And I send them a thank you card. And it might not even, I probably don't talk about business in 90% of them. Yeah, right. Hey, Brandon, congratulations on, you know, whatever it might have been. Congratulations, I think you're weight loss goal. You're absolutely amazing. I'm so grateful to be in business with you, cheers to more success. And I'm here if you need anything. But those thank you cards are only when the referral comes in or those are throughout the whole relationship. When they send us a referral or if I just want to say thank you for something. I just acknowledge somebody. Okay. Yeah, people like being acknowledged. Yeah, they do. More than we want to admit, we like it being acknowledged. For sure, who doesn't like the good pat on the back? We probably never got none of that grown up, right? Yeah. All right, you twice or more, I've heard you use the word value to real estate agents. So I want to crack that a little bit because that means different things to different people. For sure. And so again, you seem very structured in your business approaches and systems. So I'm wondering if you, like what I think is like do you have a, in that initial conversation with a realtor, is that value conversation starting there? Do you start differentiating or articulating how you actually deliver value? Yeah, so a lot of the realtor relationships that are new that find us or use us or new relationships that we find are typically found on social media or they know like interests someone that no likes and trusts us and we get in business because of a mutual relationship. So if they know me on social media, they probably know a lot about me already and pretty open, talk about a lot of stuff and I'm just who I am. I hate to use the word authentic because authenticity is such a throne around word these days but I'm authentic on and off social media. And so with that being said, a lot of the realtor's already kind of know what to expect. And so, and I know a lot of people that listen to this might be like, well, that's not gonna happen for me. Well, I thought the same thing, but the reality is is that if you're in business with people that know like and trust you and that you know like and trust, they are your biggest rating fan. And I know that you all have read the book Raving Fans. And if your realtor's are not your Raving Fans and your clients are not your Raving Fans, you need to tweak the business that you're doing. And so when I have that conversation with them, it's hey Brandon, I'm using the word Brandon. I'm using Brandon because I just hung up with the realtor named Brandon right where we hopped on this call. Hey Brandon, you know, I, you know, Katie referred you over to me. I, you know, how are you currently getting business? What, you know, are you paying for leads? Are you, is it referral based business? And far often than not, the realtor's that we're working with are typically getting referral based business or social media business. And so, you know, it's hey, I'm getting leads from past clients. I'm getting leads from different people throughout the industry. And I'm like, well, how can we serve you? What do you need, what, what do you need help with? We have a pretty robust CRM, you know, that keeps you up to date. It notifies you of, you know, client birthdays, client home of our trees. It keeps you up to date on where we're out with your clients. And that's all great. And everybody's got a CRM that they love. But what do you need from me? How can I be the best partner to you? And just asking people that, like people will tell you what they want. Yeah, they will. I'm just curious, you know, there's a thousand thoughts that run through my head because there's a, you know, potentially 20 or 30 different answers to that. And I'm wondering if you hear a theme or, you know, because I think here's the bigger problem. Communication, if you want another theme. I want, I'm not getting communication from my current loan officer or my current, my current loan officer is being too pushy or I just can't get them on the phone. And y'all, we're not that busy. This isn't COVID. I'm not working 90 to 100 hours a week. What do you have a structure in place? You know, a lot of L.O.'s have the, I'll call you back within an hour of voicemail thing or what do you do? No, I just have a, my voicemail just says, like, hi, you've reached the voicemail of Paige Bowman. I'm either on the other line or away from my desk. You're welcome to text me or leave me a voicemail and I'm going to call you back as soon as possible. And if I know that I can't get to them, I'm on this podcast, right? I have forwarded my desk phone over to someone on my team. They'll take messages for me or nine times at a 10, probably can answer the question. But, you know, speaking in business that want to be in business with you, you know? Yeah, for sure. Well, I love the old saying, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And I think that's too often the acceptance that what L.O.'s put up with from realtors, is they're taller because they're going to get a deal. And then all they do is bitch and moan about realtors and how they suck and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, dude, how many realtors are here in your backyard, you know? For real? It's a good one. You're a mindset because how you, your mindset is going to transform and change your business. Last week, I was literally chatting with my mom who's also in the industry, shout out to Kelly Rogers. And if you, if you know her, you follow her, she's really smart. And I was like, call me my, perhaps, man, I only have nine apps this month. I have one lock. It's the sixth. Like, what's going on? I know I was just on vacation, but I thought if I went on vacation, I would get busier. Like, what the heck? Well, you've been lying to me my whole life. And she's like, you got to change your mindset. Like, you're acting in scarcity. You have a bad mindset right now. And I literally on Thursday, I had that conversation with her and I picked up the phone and called 10 realtors. Call of them, no, I can trust me. I didn't call, I'm cold call anybody. And I just said, hey, Katie, how's your day going? How's business? And I typically say that how's business for last? Hey, Katie, how's Riley? How's, you know, how's Noodle? How's the dog? You know, and just ask questions. And then, you know, how's your business? What can, how can I serve you? I made 10 of those phone calls on Friday. And not that this has a lot of correlation, but I like to think that it does. On Friday, I locked six loans. So I don't know. You don't see. Sorry. So I, you know, I don't know that that as a direct correlation, but I'm going to let myself believe that it does. That I shifted my mindset on Thursday morning after I chatted with my mom and complained to her for probably 10 minutes about how my business was imploding and my world was over. And by Friday at 5 p.m., I had locked six loans in 24 hours. That's awesome. Well, it's okay to vent, too, you know? Yeah. Vent and go dump that whatever it is. Maybe it's a workout, maybe it's a person, I don't know. But go let go of that and then get back in the lane. 100%. Yep. Yeah, because we're all facing all that noise and resistance. I wanted to ask you a question here for a few minutes and we'll pivot into social media. So, and I hate to use the term millennial, but all right, it's because it's an identifier. But you're young, all right? Let's put it that way. Matter of fact, I remember a few years ago when this whole millennial thing started, right? And everybody's like, oh, the millennials compared to the boomers and all that. And somebody was on stage saying, you know, they didn't like the labels either. And he goes, you know, you know, who millennials are? They're young people. That's who they are. Okay, that's it. They're no different than you were young, all right? They're just young people. Yeah, we're just young people, man. I like that. I'm young. But I'm asking this could this question because we'll segue into your social media following Instagram over 10,000 followers. Why are you bullish on realtors? You know, that's a good question. I, I'm gonna answer in this might not be the right way to answer, but so I apologize. But I don't ever want to rely on somebody else for, I'm trying to think of the kind way to say this. And so, you know, I don't want to be, I don't ever want to rely on somebody else for the food that's on my plate. And I'm a lot of the time all in on realtors, but I also would love for my business to come from other places. And so, I'm all in on realtors because those realtors are my friends, but I also am all in on social media because I know that there are other realtors, I mean, other lenders that are getting their business solely from social media and then giving those leads to realtors. And so, I love the realtors that I work with. I love the people that I'm in business with, but I also know that there are plenty past clients, social media or other avenues. And new thoughts that I answer here. Don't even know you exist yet, yes. Yeah. Is that answer? I feel like that was like, yeah. I am hopeful and I know that they're going to, at the end of the day, my realtor relationships are my friends and so I want to continue being a business and being a partner and being aligned with them, but also at the end of the day, like I know that business can be cut like there are other sources of business that is out there. And so, yes, I'm going to be all in on realtors, but I also want to be all in on other avenues to try to mesh those together. No, it makes total sense in there. First of all, let's start from the top is your realtors are your friends. So you have chosen who your business partners are wisely because you enjoy doing business with them. The out for the loan officer listening, a lot of realtors aren't your quote unquote friends or you don't like them, you tolerate them, right? Yeah. Wrong things start to divert, start to mix it up. You're going to need to, if you want to enjoy this business, it's all about who you work with and partner. That's number one. Number two, here's my belief about realtors in the ranking of sources of business is, and we're going to now talk and pivot to social, but still today, and I'll friggin debate anybody on this, still today, realtors, in my opinion, are the shortest quickest path with the lowest cost, highest conversion rate to buyers in the market period. Yes, game over. Better social media does not beat that yet. Correct. It is a longer funnel, longer process and all that kind of stuff, delicious face it. How many realtors do you work with roughly, just your core group? My core group is probably about 25 realtors. I know that seems like a lot, but it's no, no. Note for people listening, you need more than you've ever needed before. 100%. We work with probably 50 to 60 realtors. My core group is probably 25, and honestly, that's still not enough. Who's, I take a lot of calls and people fell out of form before they get on the call with me. And most of them have like six, you know, six, four, maybe eight, once in a while. I mean, you need 10, 20, 30 today, because the pie has shrunken for everybody. Yeah. So it has. Up on that. Now, let's get into social media. Speaking of that, have you generated business from social? I have actually had a closing today from social media. Nice. What was kind of like a love that? Take me through the journey. Was it like a post at DM? Well, it was a video that I posted that led to a DM, that led to the conversation, that led to the application, that ultimately led to 16, 90 days of credit repair, and then now they're closing. There you go. And have you seen that over? You've been now obviously, how long have you been focusing on Instagram? So I've been shooting content and shooting videos since May of 2021. I started posting them in really, I, let me say this, I went all in on shooting video in December of 2021. I've gone all in on social media and posting consistently and doing stories January of this year. So I had not gotten a lead from social media until January of this year when I went all in. So I was just like mosing around. I was like, I'm going to post a real today. It's Tuesday, I feel like posting a real. All right, now it's Saturday. And oh crap, I haven't posted a story in six weeks I need to get on that. But I've been all in on social media since January 1st of this year. And I've been saying for a while, I want to get all of my business from social media. It's doable, they're, I'm not going to say hundreds because there aren't hundreds, but there are at least 800 loan officers that are getting all their business from social media, maybe not even that much. And it's doable and it's an untapped market. Yeah, well, it's like a never ending source as well because it's not like the pool doesn't end. The pool doesn't ever get full. No, right? It continues to expand and has capacity, it's just about your ability to reach it. Correct. And by the way, I know you're saying I get all your business, but I think what you're, I get what you're saying, however, it's not like you're going to shut off the faucet of realtors, you know? Oh, no, never. But I would like to primarily see that most of my leads are coming from social media because that just means I'm doubling my business. Right, and you can feed your realtor partners as well, which is cool. And then they'll never ask me for money. Exactly, right? I can ask them for money, no, I'm just kidding. Okay, so you said all in and I know that's a, that's a very important distinction versus dabbling. And I have been equally guilty of the dabbling mistake. You though are, are you exclusive in terms of your quote unquote all in? It's Instagram for you. It is, I do post funny stuff on Facebook. So if you follow me on Facebook, which I don't think they do, and it's not, not your fault. It's totally okay. I really post like, if we're having any events, I post that on Facebook and I also post like, what's better, chipsahoy or Oreo? And I, yeah, see? And then it becomes like, okay, now what's better? Original Oreo or double stuffed? And then that starts a whole debate. But I do that because I continually keeps me top of mind and in people's feed. I don't, I mean, I am, I like to think a pretty funny person. And I am a little controversial. I'm probably a lot more controversial than most people. I would say most people are controversial, but most people are not willing to be vocally controversial. Behind closed doors, everybody's controversial, but I'm willing to be a little bit more controversial than most. And I, I use the term of like, what's better? Chick-fil-air raising canes. And I mean, gosh, people love that. But it keeps me within their algorithm feed. And I was constantly showing up every single post. And so that's, I'm just trying to juice the algorithm. So when I do post, hey, we're having an event. It's not reaching five people, it's reaching 500 people or a thousand people. And so there is a method to that madness. So real quick, real quick, let's go back to the quiz. What was the first cookie one Oreo versus? Oreo versus chipsahoy. But then, but then everyone's gonna say Oreo. Like literally, it was like Oreos. I'm a more of a chipsahoy guy. Well, okay. So you're like of the, like literally, I think I have like 400 comments on that post. Of that post, like two people said chipsahoy. And I, I'm not gonna, yeah, I'm like crack. Yeah. And so then the next day, I was like, all right. I was like, maybe a few days later, I was like, all right. The people have spoken Oreo is the true winner. Now, which one is better? Stuffed crust or stuffed crust, double stuffed or just the original Oreo. And then that sparked a whole other debate. People feel very strongly about store-bought cookies. Oh, I know, yeah, they do. That's funny. It's surprising though to see so many people love Oreo because I just don't get it. Anyway, we don't want to, we don't want to derail this conversation. That's all different podcasts. I just don't get it. Anyway, okay. So back to Instagram. I'm looking at your content and your reels and all that kind of jazz. How, so I opened up with this, as you know, is when I look at your Instagram feed, is the first word that came to mind for me was intentional, right, or intentionality. So are you intentional with the current strategy? And all right, so unpack that. So 100%. So my videographer Rusty Gates, he is wonderful. He's also a really good friend. Was a realtor. Was a good friend when he was a realtor. He was a client. Then he became a realtor and then we used us. And now he is my videographer and doesn't really do real estate anymore. Cause who wants to know? I'm just kidding. I'm kind of. So we, I was his first client and I went all in. I believe in my friends. And so if you don't believe in your friends, then you have the good friends. Yeah, you have the wrong friends. And if your friends don't believe in you, then you need to like rethink your whole friend strategy. But I believe in my friends. And so I went all in on Rusty. And I think Rusty also went all in on me, even though he's never told me that. But he was really betting on me. And so with that being said, we kind of toyed around a while. You know, beginning of first half of 2022 is like just figuring out my style, figuring out, you know, shooting videos so I can get comfortable. And so if you look at the videos from like, the beginning of 2022, they're like meh. And it's like, what was the purpose for this? But then we really honed in on my style is that I myself, I'm, you know, I show up. I don't show up in a suit and, you know, I'm not dressing any way. I'm being myself true to who I am. But I'm also my content is created for realtors and clients. Okay. And I want it to be easily digestible for someone who has no idea what real estate is. Because the average home buyer purchased a home three to five times in their lifetime. And it's certainly increasing now, right? You could probably say that the average home buyer that's my age will probably purchase five to seven homes, maybe five to 10 homes in their lifetime because people are moving more. But the reality is is that I want to talk to people like they don't know anything, but I don't want to treat them like that. Okay. There's no one wants to feel stupid. All right. So your content is designed to be digestible content for realtors and clients. Riltors and clients. And so I think that because I know sometimes people get hung up on, well, consumers are realtors. What should I post my stuff about? You're saying both and you've proven it can work because there's a pretty clear crossover there. Because if you're posting it for your clients and your realtors are following you, your realtors are sharing that content to their story, right? And then because they have clients following them. And that's at the end of the day what I want. I want my content to be shared because the more people that see my content, the more impressions that I have and the more impressions that I have, the more likely to get a client from that. And obviously you're positioning yourself as knowledgeable, right? Front of the realtor feed because you're showing up with all those amazing content and they're like, that's a lender I want to work with. Yeah. Yeah. Have you attracted new relationships solely from Instagram? No, 100%. Yeah. My top realtor referral relationship I met in 2021 because of social media. And I would consider her one of my best friends and her the same. And we met because of social media. Is that Katie Day? It is. Katie Day. I said good, good score, man. Yeah. That's a hell of a team there, huh? Yeah. And she's good people. And we're like, she's a friend. She's the one I want to be a friend with. And the same like she wants to be friends with me. And we view business the same as we want to be in relationship and in business with people that we know like and trust. Okay, so map out for me then your schedule for filming, posting, batch. Everybody wants to know the secret friggin sauce, right? Well, when someone finds it out, let me know. I batch out content on Tuesday. I actually batch out content. I brought a realtor in and we shot 10 videos together podcast style. And then I did I think 25 individual videos and then Alice in a loan officer on my team shot another probably 15 videos. So poor Rusty and his editor probably have somewhere between 45 to 50 videos in a four to five hour period that we shot. I will also shoot again at one more time this month. And that day will be just realtor's and me. And so Katie and I shoot content together once a month, typically. And then I'm going to be sitting at the chair. podcast style. Yeah. Okay. But side by side with podcast mics and we, you know, riff back and forth. Interesting. So you're talking about all kinds of different real estate related topics. Correct. And her content is client facing. Yes. And you're in some of her content though. Yes. Yeah, nice. Okay, so that's a lot of content. So on that Tuesday shoot, is that a month's worth of content for you? Yeah, that is. The goal is again, so I shot 10 videos with a realtor. And then I saw 20 to 25 videos around myself. I'm not going to like every video that I make. Not it's just like, I probably have, you know, 20 videos in my drafts that the world will never see, because I look back on, I was like, oh my God. I was thinking, no, no shit. I've been there too. Why did I think that sound again? And then sometimes you're like, Affet, I'm posting it. Because I don't have anything else. I literally, I'm this is it. How are you scripting these out? I don't script anything out. I'm actually launching this weekend, a small plug here. I'm launching this weekend in ebook for lenders. It's a hundred topics and a hundred hooks on just hooks that I have found that have either generated me a lot of views, a lot of likes, a lot of comments, or a lot of shares. And I go to the notes section of my phone. I don't know what an Android note section is called. But if you don't have an iPhone, you shouldn't be in business. I'm just kidding. So I go to the notes section of my phone and I have a running just things, anything that someone asks me two or more times, whether it be a realtor or a client, or any hot topic in the news that I'm seeing. God forbid those lone level pricing adjustments. Everybody was posting that they were going to skip their credit card payments because they wanted a better interest rate. So I talked about the same thing I'd ever seen. I was like, all right, go ahead and do that. Who are you getting me posted? I don't apply for a mortgage any time after that though. What's great about that? So people listen up. You should take notice of this. When you see or hear something like that, that you know is stupid and doesn't make any sense. It's your chance to hijack that. It's called news jacking. And you've got content on that to say, hey, guys, time out, this is dumb, right? Or whatever your approach is going to be. Yeah, it's not smart. I don't know. Yeah, so it's a lot of that. It's sometimes I just like remake content that I've made before. And some of it is, you know, I watch, you know, Neil home, what's a mortgage? Right. A mortgage guy. A mortgage guy. Yeah, and I'm seeing like, okay, what are they talking about? Because like we can only, like there's only so much crap that we can talk about. Like, you know, so, but I've talked about like, you know, did you know that your prime example I should just shut a video? I was like, did you know that you could buy a home for your older parent if they are not able to afford it? And you can purchase a primary residence, a 5% down. I literally had realtors reach out to me. I had loan officers call me and say, you're full of it. Oh, really? The guideline. And I was like, phew, what oh, and I said, actually, Freddy's is even better than Fanny's. So you should check out Freddy's guideline. And I'm telling you, I, I blew probably five to 10 loan officers lines. But it's just posting stuff that like guidelines that people don't know about. Yeah, yeah, I also love to see. I'm just looking at one of your videos about the HELOC and, um, you know, you're the haters, right? The people are like, ah, the HELOC sucked. The HELOC killed us. Not a good idea. Yeah. What do you do with those? You just like blow by him or just go, hey, appreciate your opinion. Um, some of them depends on like some of them. I want to respond back and be a little snarky, but I also know that there's like clients watching my stuff. So I don't want to be too snarky. Um, but some of them, I'm just like, you know, hey, I appreciate your feedback. Everyone's opinions different. Right. Yeah, that's, um, should address it. Yep. And there are some people that like, you, well, you could tell them that like, hey, you want a million dollars, and they would still come back to you and say something like rude. That's just, unfortunately, I, you know, they weren't raised by my mom. That's for sure. Now, if we just get the spam, uh, erased from the message thread, right about. No, I love the spam, give me all the spam. It juices your algorithm. The more comments and the more likes that you have, the better. So leave the spam. Don't delete them. Do you respond to the spam sometimes? Yeah. Sometimes like, I've, I've deemed you 20 times. Check your inbox. I'm like, I think you must be deeming the wrong person. Oh my God. That's, that's a smart play. I didn't. The spam. I didn't know that was actually how I know comments help. But I was just figured at least, no, they don't know. They don't know, don't know. I'm trying to play Google here real quick. Don't mind me. Yeah. I'm always curious about people's Google business profile. All right, looking strong 65, 64 reviews. Yeah, that happens to be one of my little pet projects I love. I, yeah, I really wish I was more all in on Google my business. I really think that there's a lot of value in Google my business. It's just not something that I know enough about to be all in on it. And it's definitely something that I am actively looking for someone who is good at it. But everyone that says that they're an expert at it has only like helped one person. So it's like, I really need someone who's really helped people turn their, their Google my business. And if you don't have a Google my business, you should just start one. My recommendation would be to, if you have a CRM, you could email your clients and say, Hey, you have until, you know, one, you know, August 1st, you could email them and say, Hey, we are, we just started to Google my business. And we're looking to get reviews on there. We're going to do a drawing for everyone that leaves a review five star review. They can leave a four star review. But everyone that leaves a five star review will be entered to win a $500 lows gift card. Nice. Yeah. And it's not, you're not against compliance. You're not against. It's not, you know, CFPB can't come get you for that. Yeah, I love that idea. I saw some realtors do that a year back. And I've been sharing that same idea. And here's the cool thing they did is they went live with the winner or winners, right? Every time they did it for like 90 days and they went live is super smart. Because the more reviews that you have and the more active reviews that you have, the more recent reviews that you have, obviously it helps your business. But on Google, but yeah, I wish I was, I knew more about it. Well, hey, there's only so much bandwidth you have, right? For sure, definitely. All right, so you mentioned events. Those are near and dear to my heart. What do you do for events or classes if anything? Yeah. So we do things that we're good at. So we talk about social media a lot. We host events about first time home buyer webinars, seminars, whatever. We partner with realtors in regards to that. We have found that, I mean, because if you think about it, if you're only getting, as you say, term only, if you only have five people that show up at event, you have five people who are a captive audience who have taken time out of their Saturday to come learn about buying a home. Those are people that are almost guaranteed to use you. And so if you're like, hey, let's host an event. I've got a space. You bring the coffee. I'll bring the donuts. We can have a one hour class. Have them send it out to all their past clients and say, hey, if you have any friends that are looking to start the process. And so we did those a lot. We've definitely toned those down. We were doing like two to three a week for probably six months. But we do, you know, educational events once a month. I load happy hours because I don't like small talk. And so I do those, we do those like every other issue month. You know, I try not to do them that often. And then we do client events as well. So we're doing a mommy and me photography event. We have our for lifestyle photographer. And we've rented a space in October. So they have the ability to get them for Christmas. Just in the amount of Christmas cards. But moms and their children get their photos taken the least. Dads, y'all have all the photos. Because moms are like, come on. Let me make your picture. And it's a good angle. The lighting looks good. And then dads are like, yeah, here's the picture. It's like down here of their feet, you know. So we're doing my wife training. That's good. Like this. The up angle, right? Just the up here, man. Nobody wants to know. Yeah, nobody wants to picture this way. So we're doing a mommy and me photography event. We'll be able to have about 15 to 20 past clients. And we'll have, you know, obviously, we'll send out. We're going to do actually a postcard. And then we'll do an email and a phone call. And we'll probably only send it out. We will hand select VIP clients for this because this is something where it's going to be a pretty costly event. And we want to make sure that we're doing stuff for people who value us. And so if we maybe, you know, know somebody who's a VIP client, we're going to invite those people first. Unfortunately, you know, just is what it is. And, you know, I'm excited about it because it's, you know, and then we're going to tell the realtors like, hey, Suzy and Suzy and her kids are coming. You're more than welcome to come and see them. We're going to have refreshments. We'll probably do goodie bags for the kids. And nothing will be branded because nobody wants anything that's branded. They, you know, just, yeah, just a way to give back to create some goodwill. Literally, I'm just, yeah, if it's branded, then it seems like it's a time to sell. And this is really not a time to sell. I'm just trying to give value to these people. And anyways, so they'll have their pictures before Thanksgiving. And they'll be able to use them for Christmas cards. So, you know, quick note, do you do tag people in your CRM based on VIP or not? We do. Yeah. So we have a ABCD client. We try not to get the goal is for no one to ever be a CRD client. What's the good though? Is it referrals or what is it? The metric is honestly, it's just people sometimes that like have connected with us on a level. You know, some people you're just like, man, I really like them. And they really like you just, you just get along with that person. Yeah, you vibe. That's a yeah. So it's really just a lot of people that we vibe with or maybe people that are financial planners or people that should be seeing our names a little bit more often. Yeah. So it's people that are doing a job that maybe they're in front of people. You know, we try to be strategic about our stuff. For sure. I mean, be smart. Yeah, it's kind of like just weird stuff pops in my head when I do these pages. But I remember back in the day, I forget where I was working. But you know, there were some contests where you were going to win. There was a get maybe it was a realtor thing and you give a realtor a certain gift. And you know, before you choose the realtor, right? You're like, no, no, no. Yes, she's a top producer. Sally, you're the lucky winner, right? Yeah, that's the yeah. No, for sure. That's the sweepstakes people. It is. And I will say this and I know this is kind of like off topic and not anything that you've talked about, but creating a brand. So my social media is intentional, but I've also created a brand. And so I am typically wearing what I'm wearing right now. You can't see it because but you can kind of see it says the mortgage collective on there. I'm typically wearing a shirt of like this or a white version. I have like literally all different colors. And typically wearing that and wearing jeans or joggers. Typically have on a cold pair of sneakers. And that's my garb like my hair is always curly. I'm 511. And when I go out, people recognize me. I've literally been getting attached to you before and I've had somebody come in and like, oh my god, I follow you on social media and I'm a realtor. I literally have a new client and I have been nervous to reach out to you. And now that I'm meeting you in person, here's our information. Would you mind calling them tomorrow? I got my nails done a couple of weeks ago and I literally was checking out. And it's a new realtor that just started referring me because she saw us on social media. And she said, are you page? I'm like, yeah, hi. You know, it's always like a weird interaction. I'm like, I am. Are you going to kill me? Yeah, right. I don't know who you are. Who are you? First off, I'm a realtor. I've seen you on social media and I just started referring you guys. I love your content. I think that it is amazing. And then I'll see clients also when I'm looking the worst. Like, I'll literally like have run to the grocery store to get milk on a Saturday morning. And I'm like, looking homely. And they're like, oh my gosh, so good to see you on person. Because I don't, I don't have time to go to closings. I, you know, closing, you know, 30 plus people a month. I don't have time for that. Unfortunately. And I just always see the people when I look the worst. But, you know, it's because people know what to expect. I'm wearing a mortgage collective t-shirt. Well, I think what's cool about that is your brand is you, you know? Yeah. You know, I'm trying to be sure. So create a brand. Yeah. And sorry, I got off, I got to track on that. Sorry, but just to kind of tie it up, you should have a personal brand. Nike has a brand. You know, Apple has a brand. All of these people have a brand. And the brand is what people are talking, your brand is what gets you into rooms that you never thought you could be in. And if you have a brand. Connects with your tribe. And people will identify and be attracted to want to work with you. And some want, but that saves you a hell of a generation. Yeah. Some people don't like me because I have tattoos. They're like, I can't work with her. You're like, okay, good. Because I don't want to work with you. We probably have a way different mindset. It's okay. And then it's so funny going back to your posts from earlier. Like I can see what the blazer on and all that. And you're like, what is that? That's yeah, it's not. Yeah. And those were like, I hated them. But I did had nothing else. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to have to lean in. And uh, true. This is the growth process of. Yeah. How has it taken you to find your voice on social? I actually just talked about this on Tuesday. I made a video about it. It's taken a long time. Because when I first started doing content, I was really reserved because you're being scrutinized by people by people that you don't even know are watching your videos. Right. And it took me a while. But I am unpologetically me. Like unapologetically, I am myself on and off social media. And it's taken me a long time. When I got into this business in 2014, I worked at a bank and I wore, I had one arm sleeve, half sleeve done then. And I worked for my mom and I was her receptionist. And I wore a button down or some sort of blouse and a blazer top. And either nice slacks or really nice looking jeans and some sort of like closed-toed loafer or shoe. And I was just like you. Yeah. And I did that because that's what I was under the impression. And I remember the first time that I wore a t-shirt to the office. My mom and I at that point had been working together. It was September or August of 2017. 2016, 2016. I'm sorry, 2015. That's all right. So we had been working together at this point for a year. And I wore a t-shirt on like a Wednesday. And at this point, we weren't working at the bank anymore. We were just working in a regular like with the regular people, non-banker people. And I wore jeans and a t-shirt on like it was just a random day. Fridays, we were allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt. But I just did it. I was like running late and I didn't have anything. I had to go home and change. Oh my god, they made you go home? Yeah, my mom was like, this is not how you just come to the office. Clients come up here. We cannot be in jeans and a t-shirt. It's not Friday. Go home and change. Not that reserved day. Yes. Yes, it's not the rest. I'm like, what? Friday, the reserved day that we were jeans and a t-shirt. And I'm wearing Louis Lumin joggers today. Again, sneakers and t-shirt. Because nobody cares about what you look like to a certain extent. People care about how you show up. People care about how you act and people care about how you communicate to them and their clients. Right. Yeah. Amen to that. I think the point being, go back to that word authentic, even though it was a bit overused, is people want to know the real you, right? The real you is t-shirts and tats. Then that's going to do way more in terms of creating a connection and feeling trust than this pretend blazer and pointed shoes, you know? Yeah. And that's just me with the pointed shoes. But that's a whole nother side story. Okay, so we are officially out of time and you've been very gracious with sharing your time with us. For those that want to connect with you more and follow you, where would you find you? Instagram htown mortgage chick. So ht own mtg chick. So htown mortgage chick or just search page Bowman. I'm the only one that comes up. I love that. And I'm put a link to it in the show notes as well. So people are listening right now on your mobile phone. Just pick up your mobile and look for the show notes and tap. There you go. You can go follow page and see all the cool shit she's doing. So there we go. Page, thank you. Thank you. All right, listeners, you know what to do. If you like this episode, leave us a review and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seeds, partnering with affiliates, real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top elbows, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro.