Coach’s Corner with Khai McBride

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. The hardest thing about growing your loan operation is actually not lead generation marketing and sales. It's actually scaling. And I think every loan officer can relate to me because it's all fun in games when you do one or two loans a month, but what happens when you get to that fifth, sixth, seventh loan, all of a sudden, you're spending half of your time babysitting your files and you're not out there originating your business. Hey there, Jeff Zimfer, host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast. Thanks once again for tuning in. Or if it's your first time, I want to know, hey, by the way, do you know you can ask me anything? Go to askjefanything.com and tell me what's your biggest challenge right now in business? What's the obstacle you're trying to break through? Love to take your questions and then I'll take them if it's a great question and I have time. I will answer that question on the air for the benefit of you and everyone else. Askjefanything.com. Before we get into this week's special episode, I did want to share with you a couple more success stories because it's very important that you know what's working right now in the field in the market. We talked to many, many different loan officers all week. We have a very small group of VIP mortgage professionals that are out there leading the charge, grabbing market share, leading with an educational platform. I was talking to a loan officer the other day and they were calling, doing outbound calling to real estate agents. They were scheduling about three appointments per week. It was going well, but one of the challenges or questions he had was what to offer them besides the, you know, we've got superior pricing, we've got a great service, right? All those kinds of things and in offering them this, you know, we've got a, you know, what he was looking to do was offer them a platform. And that was my question. I posted a reel about it the other day is when you're talking about the real estate agent specifically. And of course, now here's the thing. There's tons of loan officers calling real estate agents. You know that. So the question is how are you going to show up differently? First of all, you might not even want to call them. You might want to attract them instead of chase them. I don't know, but even if you did call them, what do you have to say? How fast do you say it, right? What is your value proposition before they click or hang up or they immediately tune you out because you sound like the same of everyone else, same as lame, right? Well, I know some of our mortgage professionals are attracting instead of chasing like Glenda White. Just got a post from her four hours ago. Always love when classes actually work. She recently taught the video marketing class via Zoom, 41 registered, 26 showed up five appointments and the class ended seven minutes ago. That's just one example, right? If you want to hear some more, I'd be happy to share more with you. We have got tons of success stories. Another success story from Rob Yance today's class, you are the brand was a hit, 22 reservations and nine attendees. Of course, he says he's got to prove that, improve the show rates and with us what we help him do. Several in the class that was the best they've attended. He's already received three Google reviews, building up his Google reviews. That's one of the things we train and coach on and he set two realtor appointments and this is all within 24 hours or less of the class being conducted. So my question back to you is, what is your platform? How are you attracting agents not chasing? How are you differentiating? And if you'd like to learn more about how we're helping our mortgage professionals do just that, get the kind of results you heard, then go to mortgage marketing.pro and check it out. There's a brief video I put up there and you can learn more. So this week I'm bringing back my very special guest, Kai McBride. What we're going to be doing is a regular feature called the Coaches Corner and it'll be a chance for me to showcase different people, different platforms and technology companies and anything that I think might be helpful or useful for you based on the current market condition. I'm going to bring that to the podcast and so this week we bring Kai back because there's obviously been a shift in the market and a shift in what he's coaching on for loan officers. And so I thought it'd be a timely conversation to bring him back and talk about how you can help make a shift regarding your mindset, your marketing, your message and Kai has a very special offer. He doesn't do this for everybody but if you're interested in learning more about his coaching per se, stay tuned, make sure you check the show notes for a link to schedule a complimentary small group session where you get a chance to take a sneak peek into what it is that Kai does. And if it's a benefit for you or not, link in the show notes and listen to Kai talking about Coaches Corner, appreciate you tuning in without further ado. Let's get into this week's show, Kai McBride, welcome back to the show. Good to be back always. So you are back. You're the first installment of our Coaches Corner, which you guys heard in the intro. What I'm going to be focused on is once a month bringing in a special guest who has a special what I think, super power expertise or ability to help you navigate the current choppy waters that are in the market. And so Kai, you have the esteemed honor of being the first person invited in for that. So that says a lot about you, my friend. Yeah. Choppy water. So I'm the first lifeguard that's going to run out there and try to save the industry. That's what it feels like right now. We're just out there trying to save the industry. I got my little buoy with me, but I'm like David Hasselhoff, you know what I mean? I'm first one in trying to save people, not even thinking so it's just like Baywatch as mortgages or something here. I don't know. Oh, absolutely. I remember during pandemic when the market was shifting the other way, oddly, but remember before the market got really crazy with refines, it actually went the other way for a little bit and we were a little scared. And that was kind of a dark time. And I remember behind the scenes, myself and other people, I'm going to start out with the word people in the industry, we're like, what's going on? And then a couple of us said, you know what? We just have to stand up and be leaders and go out there and just run in the dark and tell everybody, you got to follow us. You got to follow us. You got to follow us. Yeah. I mean, but that's what we do. People are looking for others to follow and who's got the experience and insight and knowledge to help them through things. And I feel that that's what I've been doing for, you know, 21 years now. Yes. You have. That's why I wanted to have you here first is because, you know, you are on the front lines every day. You're coaching a lot of people. You're company and team. You're exposed to a lot of, you know, feedback from the streets. And so for those that are listening right now and I've, you know, had some people message me and let's just face it. Yeah. The waters are choppy. It will be one way to describe it. So I wanted you to talk about the shift that you've made in coaching. Like what are you hearing all, but more importantly, how are you helping? Like, you know, you're the lifeguard, right? So you're going to go out and save some lives and rescue some people. And let's just face it. You can't rescue everybody, right? But how are you being, you know, how are you coaching differently than you were? Let's just say a few weeks ago, a few weeks ago. I think this was like, well, July, July was, was, wow, what a lot of blood in the streets in July. That was probably the biggest turn of a month that I've seen in production in the industry. But this started back, you know, March, April as the industry started to turn. So let's rewind a little bit and how even like coaching has changed. So traditionally, I am a scaling coach. I help originators, branch managers, companies scale their loan operations because the hardest thing about growing your loan operation is actually not lead generation marketing and sales. It's actually scaling. And I think every loan officer can relate to me because it's all fun in games when you do one or two loans a month. But what happens when you get to that 5th, 6th, 7th loan, all of a sudden, you're spending half of your time babysitting your files and you're not out there originating new business. And so you need tips to scale, to create systems, to create better operations, to hire, build, lead a team to help you grow. People that do 25 units a month, they're not, it's not like, yeah, let's just sign with the loan application. We submit it and then we're funded the next day. I mean, they've got to manage this entire pipeline for the next 90 days of leads, shoppers, people in process. And it's all a scaling issue. That's why people with, and you know, the rule of thumb is you're going to want one team member for every five bundings you do a month, assuming you want a life, assuming you want to work about 40 hours a week. I mean, I hear it all the time, oh, I do 20 loans with like one assistant. We'll ask them how many hours they work in a week. These are like 60, 70 hour people. And if that's not the life that you want, you don't want to be taking loan applications online at Disneyland with your kids, right? So I'm a scaling expert and what happened during 2021 was capacities, rather limit because everybody's scaling the crap out of their business, doing tons of refinance volume, okay? Well, that's changed. So that volume completely drops. People are in a scaling situation anymore. People are in a rebuilding situation. And so I'm typically not a marketing coach, but we do know how to market. So we had a shift and we're doing a lot more marketing and a lot more sales, a lot more sales funnels, a lot more coaching than we have in the past, but I think where we looked at the industry a little bit different is a lot of very traditional training, traditional coaching, traditional wisdom is it's about phone calls and appointments which lead to sales, phone calls and appointment, which leads to sales, not just the industry, but the generations have changed. That doesn't work quite like it does. And people use the term, let's get back to basics a lot. And when they think about get back to basics, it's phone calls, appointments, sales. And that's great for a baby boomer generation, which is basically on its way out of home ownership. And part of the generation, which is my generation, your generation, but the millennials and the generation Z coming up, I mean, they don't even pick up the phone that you want to call people that don't pick up the phone, right? It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. I don't want to say it doesn't make any sense because how people are changing. The newer generation, they're interacting on their smartphones and the smart devices, but they're texting, right? I mean, even voicemails are kind of funky. They're consuming on social media, they're learning, they want, they don't want to be sold, they want to listen, Google some research, come up with a list for themselves and then make a decision. And so people have to understand the generational changes and I know there's a lot of old school people out there and you know, there's something about a badge of honor like I'm old school, like I'm kind of that way too, a little bit, but if you don't recognize the change in generations, you're just going to die on the vine. And the only reason why it's working for people is because yeah, there's still some older generation buying houses. And the only reason why it's working people is just sheer force. And so my comparison is this, I know that if you want to get into shape, pushups and sit-ups are always going to work. But with all the technology, with all the knowledge that we have today, we're beyond pushups and sit-ups, right? We've got different workout techniques, we have hit, we have cardio, we have CrossFit, we have machines, we have yoga, we understand nutrition more. You can actually get bigger fitness gains with good nutrition. And so that's what I see too, is that even looking at the way marketing and sales are, it's completely different. It's a social media consumption game, it's an information game, it's a knowledge piece, it's a trust piece, it's a technology piece. And so even teaching marketing and sales today is a lot different, it's sales funnels all over the place it's about to. And then I think with loan officers, consumer direct is more real today. Server director for was what, mailers, cold calling title lists, and maybe having a booth someplace out of show, but today, consumer director is about having your own YouTube channel, having your own podcast, holding seminars that now have turned into Zoom seminars, free videos, things on news feeds, and so being innovative is key. We don't go back to basics, we go to innovation at times like this. Times like this require innovation because that's the market. So let's do this, I'm wearing my coaching hat as well from time to time, and I'd like to put that in two different camps. The back to basics in innovation, because I think it depends on who we're going after audience wise. If we're going, consumer direct, we're trying to generate our own leads or whatever that case is, right? I agree with that, all the different channels and evolution that you've said in terms of technology. I tend to put the referral partners in a separate bucket in that those fundamentals tend to still have some relevance, right? Based on relationships and all that kind of stuff, not that I want to go down that rabbit hole, but just that I'm thinking of my listeners and knowing what the message they've been getting for the last six years, yeah, that there's multiple mediums to reach those people, but is that okay if we put those in two separate buckets? Oh yeah, and by the way, I never said that, I never said that those basics, those fundamentals go away. You can't rely on those alone. Right. I just want to clarify for those listening, absolutely. You can't loop everybody into one bucket, depends on who you're going after. So let's set aside the referral partners for the moment and let's do this, come back full circle then to what are you coaching on now? Like what are the conversations you're having mostly with people? They're showing up. They're like, I don't, I don't, I need business, right? I'm assuming they're saying that. Right. So the way our coaching company works is that every quarter we come up with a new curriculum of what we're going to, what we're going to train on. And I actually just had my, my team retreat last week and some of the things that we felt people need are, for example, two classes, one class is, is on video, just teaching people how to create video, what to say, how to say it, but even all the little technology, you see people doing, you know, hello, specifically, hello, specifically video marketing themselves. Like you see, like everybody's on TikTok now, for example, and you know, when you watch those TikToks, where people are like pointing like this, like the captions, people don't know how to do that. People don't know how to do that. People don't know how to edit. People don't know how to upload. And it's like, well, I want to get on that, but I don't, I don't know how to do that. Forget getting on video and talking. But now there's little technology pieces how to do and how to loop, how to, how to, how to spice videos, things like that. So we have a video class. We have an event class doing events, whether you do events live or whether you do events Zoom. Doing events Zoom, I do a lot of events Zoom, and it's a lot different than live. If you just think that you're going to, in a live audience, you're going to talk, you're going to interaction, you know, you're going to ask questions, you may have a presentation. If you do the same thing in Zoom, you're not going to get the same effect. So you have to learn how to work with chat. You have to learn how to work with polls because your biggest, your biggest obstacle in a Zoom session is people don't have the cameras on. They're watching in their cars. They're not interacting. They're zoning out. They're multitasking. Right? So how do you get that? And doing Zoom class is a little different. We have that. Another one which is still a prevalent that we're teaching is just getting out of your files. The problem is that a lot of people, a lot of people in this industry want to do the new marketing. They have to do the new marketing because they're, because volumes down, but they're still stuck in their files because they don't want to delegate. They don't want to let go. And the interesting thing is getting out of your files is not just saying let go. It's actually understanding how to use technology to get out of your files. Okay. So, for example, using technology to use like an online appointment scheduler, right? Instead of bantering back and forth, auto responders in your email, directing people to team members, using virtual phone services like ring central, like dial pad, so that you can have, so that your phones are being answered and you're not always on your cell phone. I mean, we've already moved to the place that people are doing business on their cell phones, but now people are slaves to their cell phones. I was answering and responding right away, utilizing new technology to manage incoming calls better. That's how you get out of your files using different technologies of pipeline management, right? It's a CRM or project manager like Monday.com or a Sony or maybe it's just your jungle or your arrive, right? There's different ways to do that. That's popular. We're also going over, let's talk about realtors, okay, let's talk about realtors. But here's the thing about real track acquisition is real track acquisition is not just about setting up an appointment with realtors and saying, this is why you should do business with me. I'm going to provide you some value or I'm going to help close your loans on time. The realtor class is it's also talking about how do you control your realtors? So for example, I get clients all the time, like I have a client who just took on a new realtor, like a broker owner and his 30 realtors and it seems like a big win, but then from day one, realtors are just texting 21st step and I need this, I need that, I need that, I need that. It's establishing boundaries with your realtor partners, with your referral partners saying, this is how I work. Let me show you a flow chart of the best way to refer me business. And by doing it this way, not only will we have smoother transactions, we'll have less franticness, we'll get more referrals, we'll be more organized and we won't waste your time showing people homes that don't qualify or always everything has to be a rush. And I say, if you think that it's about me not wanting to go through that game convenience or you, do we really want clients going through that frantic process to buy a home because they remember that too. It's always frantic. And so it's also laying down the groundwork with the real estate agents on creating a smoother process from lead to, from lead intake to pre-approval too. And just because, you know, referral partners, I don't know how many realtors watch this, but referral partners can tend to be very needy. And how do we control that? How do we control that need coming in? This is my work. We have a scripting class on just some of the same thing. I think a lot of what we do is we need to establish boundaries as loan officers, but we don't know the right words. So one of my master coaches, for example, when he gets a call on a Sunday for a last minute pre-approval, his script is essentially, I'd love to do this pre-approval for you. I am with my family right now, and for me to do this pre-approval, I'm going to have to step away from my family for about two hours. So I tell you what, I'll make a deal. I will gladly step away from my family for two hours to get this pre-approval that you would like, but just promise me you're going to use me through this transaction and you're not going to shot me. I'll give my time to you if you can make that promise to me. And realtor partners and consumers, they say, done deal, let's do it, and then you doesn't get shot. But what is a typical loan officer? They don't even say that. They just say, yes, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, yes to that. And then they get shot. That happens with loan officers all the time. We bend over backwards for people, and then you just end up getting shot for the last minute. And so you have to create those boundaries and you have to create those agreements with people. So that's a scripting class that we do. I like it. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. But let's deal with the issue of mindset, right? Because in choppy waters, people can panic. And of course, you know, if you get a cramp when you're swimming and you know this, you know, grip from what I know around LA, you bend to the beaches and all that kind of jazz. No more ocean where you're at now. But, and I was just out on vacation in Idaho and swimming and doing knee boarding and ski, you know, water skiing and all that. But when you're having trouble in the water and there's choppy waters, or you get a cramp or whatever, the worst thing to do is panic, right? Because you panic mode, you can do stuff that's stupid that's going to actually cause greater harm and potential risk of you drowning. So how do people not panic in the current environment and not drown? Well, I think right now where people are panning the most is where is business going to come from? Okay. And I actually posted this in my Facebook group. I'm going to read it. It's always like there's this perception that there's this lack of business and this is what I wrote. It's just really simple. Know this. The first thing I asked people and everybody listening right now is how big is your database? Is it 500 people? Is it a thousand people? Whatever it is, it's a lot bigger than you think because take your database number which is typically your CRM. Now, here's what I want you to add. I want you to pick up your phone and I want you to go to your contacts and like on an iPhone, you can scroll to the bottom, you can see how many contacts you have. The average person has over a thousand contacts. I have 1700 contacts. Add that because that's part of your database. Then look at all your social media accounts. How many friends? How many followers do you have? Add that. What I find is that most people when they add all of those things together, they have a database of like two, three thousand, four thousand people. It's not the 500 because you just know so many people know that every single, every single person there with the exception of people that are like under 18, they're capable of buying a home, including people asking me, what about your realtors? As long as your realtor is able, it is capable of buying a home, they're part of your database. The first thing that I say is your database is a lot bigger than you think it is. We want to be able to reach out to your database because remember, the average consumer gets a new loan every five years, a new house every seven years, so everybody is eligible. If you really look at a database of a thousand people, 200 people will get a new transaction this year, 200 out of a thousand, 400 out of two thousand, it's 20% of your database. It's going to get a loan every single year. Now, this is where it gets even more fun. Everyone in your database knows somebody else who is a homeowner. Now your database is double potential. Everybody in your database, at least the homeowners, whatever percentage that is, use the realtor and knows the realtor. A lot of people, when they built their databases during the ReFi Booms, they did the refinancers for those people, but they never did the purchases for those people. You call those people up and ask them who their realtor is for that introduction. Every single person in your database, or at least the subset of people in your database, has a CPA, a financial planner, a divorce attorney, or a state planning attorney. Those are all warm referrals, so let's talk about warm referrals. If anybody is ever wanted to, let's say, go after divorce attorneys or financial planners in CPAs, I know what they do. They go to Yale where they look at lists and they call call. That doesn't work. All you need to do is you just need to ask your database and say, hey, Jeff, do you know a financial planner that you love and trust on a scale of one to five? How would you rate them? Do you have five stars? Would you mind doing a warm introduction, be a text or email, because I would love to talk to them about sending them some business? That's a warm introduction lead right there. Everybody in your database knows one of those people, probably like 52% no divorce attorney, right? Okay. Your title agent, you've ever done every transaction with, can introduce you to realtors. Because they know all the realtors, they know the realtors that are looking for new loan officers, because they experience the transactions that blew up. Those are opportunities. Your realtors can introduce you to new realtors, especially the ones that look like I love you. They're going to brag about you. Okay. Anything. There's 49 other states you can get licensed in. There you go. Do more business. And in today's Zoom and today's technology world, you don't have to be locally present. You can create realtor relationships in different states, referral issues in different states. Okay. The average person has owned, I already talked about that. Every real estate office with love, free training for their agents, and that can be you. If you call five real estate offices and say, I know you're always looking for training, sales training for your agents, I would love to be that person. See, that's why we have an event finding class. So we train people how to put those, put those together. Okay. Every single social media contact that you have, you can reach out to via posts via ads. You can buy every single one of those people to a homebuyer's seminar, okay? You can offer homebuying seminars via Zoom. There are, if you do VA, we do a VA class too. VA is a great area that people can break into. There's veteran organizations across the country that would love educational classes on helping veterans buy homes. Okay. Here's another one. We still often lose business to credit unions and banks and, right? But they lose business to us too because there's things that they can't do. So just go right to the end of me and say, hey, let's create, listen, I know at least business, do you sometimes how about Mr. Cretting in person? When there's deals that you can't do, can you send them to me? Now you're creating, right, that outside of a relationship. I love this one. Every four sales sign on every single street, if you just drill up and down, elictive four sales signs, that's somebody selling a home who's going to buy a new home that needs a mortgage person, okay? Every open house, there's a captive agent for you to create. I mean, there's just so much business. Yeah. I feel like people just stop thinking and stop getting creative where the business is going to come from. And I'm just talking about sources of business without, right? The marketing of it in sales, if you get, but, but, but I think people are like kind of deer in the headlights right now, like where is the business going to come from? Exactly. So I love that you just went through that list and that was quite an extensive list. And if you're feeling overwhelmed, so pick one to three of the activities you've heard, go back and relisten to this, whatever you need to do, right? Pick those one to three activities and decide which one of those you're going to pursue. You can't pursue them all at once. So pick the ones that are that are most relevant to you. Then I want to bring this back to what I think that list illustrated is mindset because you're right. People tend to those that haven't worked on their self very much, right? Their mindset, their ability to respond to external forces. So if you're in that panic mode, like we talked about with the water metaphor, first of all, get yourself out of panic mode, number one, and get the right thinking, get the right to context in that what I decided to pull up here is, let me just see here. This is June to do this. So even with the recent forecasts being revised from Fannie Mae, they are still forecasting five million homes sold. Okay. So that's still a hell of a lot of homes, right? And is there a pause or people kind of get, you know, waiting and, you know, slowing down a little bit first right now, yeah, absolutely, because you've got these different beliefs around. No, I want to wait to see how much further the prices come down or whatever, which gets back into why you need coaching, you need scripting, you need to be able to understand how to utilize content, housing data to be able to create confidence in, you know, your sphere of influence and things like that, because people still are, but I've talked to a realtor just before this call had, I think two open houses over the weekend, 25 people came through. Yeah. Okay. The activities out there for the people who are motivated, those ones you need to get in front of. Well, and here's the reality, right? So when you look at the volume drop, I think, I think we're at between 35 and 40% volume drop. Well, there are people out there that I talked to that they're volume, and if you think about a 30% volume drop, I might have mentioned this last time. But if you're doing 10 loans a month, you go down to seven, that's not that, it's not that much. I mean, it is, but it's, it's 30% right? If you're doing six loans, you go down to four loans, it's not that much. But that's not the problem. The problem is that there's a lot of people out there that are having 60, 80% volume drop. So if you're doing 60, 80 volume drop, why is the average 30 to 40? Because some people are not dropping volume. Some people are still growing. And if this podcast was to the hundreds of thousands of loan officers, we'd have a problem because everybody would be in the same thing. Luckily, Jeff, this podcast is a subset of that. This podcast, you have the tens of thousands of listeners. So if the tens of thousands of listeners on this podcast did everything, because you got to get the business from somewhere, we're just going to take it from the people that don't listen to this podcast, there's plenty of business you see them saying, because I mean, this is a brutal fact. But if you want to eat, you got to make sure somebody else doesn't eat. So let's make sure that your tens of thousands of listeners are going to eat next and they're going to fill up their pipelines and the people that didn't listen to your podcast. Oh, well, right? It sucks for them. But that's where it's going to come from. Well, I know you get this because you've been around a long time like me as well. And again, it comes back to mindset. I do think that's an incredibly, incredibly important thing that people must control, right? As your mindset at times like these, because in some of this, we're preaching to the choir if you're listening. Some of you guys and gals already get that this is the best time to invest in your business, into level up your marketing, into it, you know, go and know the old saying from Buffett when there's blood in the streets. That's the time you invest. Well, there's blood in the streets, people, because the people are quitting. They're like questioning. They're pausing. They're hesitating. And that's the time you want to go in there and scoop that up that business. You know, I was telling somebody yesterday that they sometimes have trouble sleeping and I said, we have far too much information in today's world to let that be a problem, right? Whether you have a sleeping problem, you have a sales problem, have an IT problem. There's far too much information that I can Google that there's a book on, that there's a class on, that there's a coach on. Somebody can help you with almost every single problem that you can think about. And what's happening is that the resources are there, but people aren't being resourceful. So I'm a coach and it's just a matter of, I'm just sitting there waiting for people to reach out to me for that help because we're a resource that have done it for 21 years. I mean, I have got seven great coaches in between all of us. We have plenty of expertise to help people, but you've got to take that step too. Now, I'm assuming that people are already taking the step, listening to this podcast, but they just have to keep going. They have to keep going down the rabbit holes of assistance and help to get the solutions that they need. Interesting. What's your take then on, there's a lot happening in the industry as well and you're not going to dance around these topics before we hit record, right? So I'm going to loop a couple of these in and not to go too deep on them, but there's the thing B of A came out recently with the whole, you know, their loan program to try to track those, you know, specific types of buyers, yeah, any comments around that. There's a lot of people are like, you know, you know, people show up in these Facebook groups and all bitching and moaning. We come to bitch fest, you know, oh, if we're going to B of A and this and that and everything or people like that, everyone needs a villain, right? Yeah. Any comments on that people are going to use people are going to use in people are going to create a narrative for everything. We see this in politics all the time. So what's the narrative? One narrative is you can call B of A a liar. Another narrative is they have that what's our equivalent. We can do that too, right? Another narrative could just be maybe supportive, like I'm glad that somebody in the industry is taking a stance to help this, this niche market and maybe I, maybe I can't compete with that, but be a cheerleader, a positive force because I, we also don't know what percent of your sometimes we bitch when it's like the smallest percent of your clients is actually going to is going to use that or not use that and you know, there was such a huge uproar of rocket mortgage and but that's but that's but you can create such positive narrative there, right? It's like I don't like planning an entire vacation on Expedia. There are other, there are still travel agencies and kind of niche semi online hybrid travel agencies and tour guides that will create a more customizable experience and so it's just but you also have to recognize that when what rocket came about what were they really attracting? They were attracting people that wanted to use technology. So it's not this fight between rocket and us. It's like let's embrace the things that they are using to attract people and and support in that and saying just like rocket, we're going to give you the technology experience. We're going to allow you to apply on your phone. We're going to allow you to check status on your phone with the personal customization expertise and service and so I think it's the same thing when you look at a BFA situation. It's like if you're one of those people singing on man, they're a big bank, how do we fight a big bank? Well, what's your equivalent product that does that with a more customized mortgage banker or mortgage broker experience and use the publicity to create a narrative that's positive for you. Really, it's it's you can you can everything is a spin and I think it's just what people are used to doing and and when you're thinking about marketing, you're thinking about attracting people the more, so when it comes to positive and negative spin, there's times for both, there's times for both. Generally the negative spin is on the pain that your target market is going through and the positive spin should be the positivity you're going to bring to alleviate pain and I just see a lot of people spin it backwards where it's like they're just creating more pain on getting a mortgage, like sometimes I watch people marketing and the narratives they put and it's like, man, I don't even want to buy a house, it's so ugly out there because all people do is bitch about this and bitch about that and shut a negative light. I don't know that I want to work with that person, right? Yeah, but that's how I see it. Product is going to come and go, I mean, we've seen this for how many years, the option arms came, the two one by downs came, the no no docks, the no downs, the then we, is it a minority thing, not a minority thing, there's so much out there that's going to come every day. What do you think? So here we are in September now, just coming into finished labor day. So we're about to enter Q4 in a few weeks. What would you coach people to be doing or preparing for Q4? Well, I think Q4 is always that time that we've got seasonal holiday issues. We also have weather issues. I mean, let's face it, you live in Minnesota, yeah, you don't, you're not going home shopping, right? In the middle of the blizzard. And so Michigan places like that and, and you know, it's seasonal for different areas, like in Arizona, that's when now people are going to start buying because nobody wanted to buy in the middle of 115, 120 heat in Arizona. I mean, I think that what's important is that it's not a common answer for everybody, but everybody see, everybody has a down season and a high season. For some people, it is the end of the year, for some people, it is the end of the year. What I would say though is that again, it's the narrative, it's also the opposite. So with the end of the year, there's, there's two reasons why it's low season. One is weather, so we kind of can't control that if you're like up in the Northeast. But the other is that people are just going to be off on holidays, but that's an, that's an opportunistic time to be available for the people that are still shopping, right? So I think that's a good thing too and, and let people know that that your services are still going. You're still marketing, you know, you're still marketing your meeting with people in down times. Just one of the excuses when business is really good is that I don't have time to meet with you. Well, this is a down, this is a downtime of fourth quarter. So let's meet and let's talk about it and let's plan. And nothing too is that four people that are working with referral partners. The end of the year is a great time that everybody's in reflection mode because we're coming up to New Year's, set 2023 business planning meetings with all of your referral partners. Do that all in Q4 and help people create a kickstart for 2023. That's the best time to be business planning on in Q4. Yeah, like a question I've been suggesting people try out there even right now with your referral partners is, you know, as you're calling them up and this is back, this is the other side of that line, if you will, of consumer direct versus referral partners, where, you know, being brilliant in the basics of relationship building and all that, you know, has relevance as we have talked about before because another thing you could do and I know you've coached on this is, you know, you go back to those close transactions you did this past year, you've got varying levels of relationships with those people. Some good, some, you know, it was just the transaction. That's it. You never followed up. Never nothing, including listing agents. Well, that I think is a perfect opportunity to do what you're saying, which is go deep and the question is, you know, that we've been toying around with over the last few weeks is, you know, hey, so the market shifted, I'm curious, you know, how's it impacting your business plan? Right? What are you doing differently? What are you adding, taking away or keeping doing the same, right? And opening up that kind of conversation is a great opportunity to pour into people that way. Yeah, I think your point is is that I'm actually really shocked how many people actually don't meet with their referral partners on a regular basis. It's like once they start referring to business, you don't even meet with them. So whether it's Q4 or Q1 or Q2 or Q3, you need to be asking yourselves, let's look at all my referral partners. I need to set a one on one meeting with them all again, let's talk about the last quarter. Let's talk about the next quarter and you that with your referral partners every quarter, you're always going to be top of mind. I mean, I think the other shame is that if somebody's been in the business for 10 plus years, ask them how many referral partners they just dropped off the face of their stop, stop communicating with them. And by the way, that is the basic thing that we have to continue, right? It's the relationship. Right. Yeah, 100%. So we've covered a lot of areas here. We've got the consumer side of things where you wrote down some notes. You've got to learn, let's just face it, you've got to become a modern originator. If you're going to survive and thrive, the next gen of home buyers, the gen Z, right, and the cusp of millennials that are still a little bit younger, right? 40 years old now, man, they're not young anymore. Dude, that sounds really young to me right now, but to be 40 again. So yeah, you've got to learn all, you become a modern originator, use the tools, use the technology, get leverage, right? Events, one to many. So that's on that side of things and have a social media presence and get serious about this, guys, it's, you know, I shared this on a post, I think it was last week. So six years doing the podcast and I remember about three years ago, you know, I would get questions from people. They're like, Hey, man, do you hear anybody actually getting business from social media? And I'm like, three years ago, it was much less today. I mean, it's hello, like if you're not getting business from social media, you're doing something wrong. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a program. There's some people that only get business from social media. Right. Right. Exactly. People in agent today, that is, that doesn't have a social media presence, you know, I mean, I do. I do. Well, okay. I don't know, I don't know a newer agent today that is starting their career on social media, which means that that's the entire four generation. Right. Right. Yep. Yep. And we're seeing these. By the way, well, no, I don't want to do it now. I was just going to give a plug for a different episode. Anyway, people are getting business from social media for sure. Okay. And then on the flip side, moving into Q4, start doing your referral partner business planning. Let's do this. It's Coach's Corner. Right. You help people break through some of the things we talked about here today, mindset, skill set, things like that. You, the reason why I asked you here is because I wanted you to be your first guest for Coach's Corner. But also, you're willing to put yourself out there and offer, dare I say, a free coaching session for people who want to take advantage of that. Is that right? Right. Right. Right. First time coaching session for anybody that wants to do it, strings attached, there's not going to be any selling, any pitching. It's a pure coaching session as if anybody else was on a coaching session. One hour, it's, it's, it's, it is a group session, but there's, there's a huge benefit to that and how you're going to collaborate the group and you're actually going to get ideas with one another. I, I have a hybrid coaching program like I love 101 because I can really fine tune somebody gives them the customization, but I also love group because the power of the group, the idea sharing, it's much bigger than one coach. And so I offer a free session, there's a link we can put out. There's I think four available dates, three or four available dates with about roughly 50 odds, 50 odds spots. So they'll fill up pretty quickly if you don't grab one. But I would love to, I would love to basically give people a test drive to see what I do. But in my sincerest form, if that's all you do is you take advantage of a coaching session and you're able to better your business, I'm still, I'm still really helping the industry. I'm solidifying my name, what I'm about, what we do. You know, when it comes to coaching and helping people, I do all of that stuff for free. I'll sit down with people and I'll, I'll tell them and teach them anything for free. I mean, what we really provide as a coaching program is just walking people, walking people through the actual journey and holding their hand, but straight to the curriculum. Exactly. But so if you're interested in that coaching session, we have a link sign up. Like I said, no strings attached, no selling, well, you know, we'll, you know, really from, from me, I help the industry, the industry helps me. And that's, that's always been my relationship with the injury. You're not paying me, even though I've asked you a lot of you don't pay me. So. That's right. I mean, seriously, you've been in the coaching chair for quite a long time, you know, and, and I think you've built an awareness and a reputation for those who, who know you in the industry, like you said, after our last podcast, you got a lot of people reaching out to you. So you are a giver for sure. And this is a, it's not a thinly veiled sales pitch. It's just you're going to pour into people and that's how it works. If you pour into people, right, and you're the show up to serve and it's right for people to vote there at the right stage, they'll make that decision to come and join. And I'm going to say this because it's always weird saying this, please understand, as an originator listening, okay, it's the same thing. You should really want to give and educate as much free information as you can. And that's why I think a lot of originators, they just kind of sit waiting to do business, go out there and put the information out there to educate. That's why we need social media because social media is a free platform for people that want to consume information that you can, you can educate, you can put your brand out there, you can be a leader, you can be a philanthropist in terms of helping people. And they will eventually recognize you as a knowledgeable leader, expert in your field and want to work with you, but we can't sit thinking everything is just a sale. Will I follow the people that take the, that take the course and interest the course? I mean, that's what we do. But I'm not, but I don't do it under the pretense of selling and pitching all the time. And I believe originators should be that way as well. Start doing those home buyers classes for free and, and going in there and help real through offices free. Just help people. Right. Help people and we'll attract people to you. Absolutely. Okay. So the will put a link on the show notes. If you're on listening on your mobile phone, wherever you're at, just hold your phone up, tap the link, go there and grab a time on Kai's calendar. He's got the various slots available. Based on the last response, we know they'll be filling up quickly. So Kai, thanks a lot for being the first of the coach's corner for us. I love it. What was that saying? You know who the pioneers are because they have the arrows in their back. You know, we're always calling to the new land and everybody's like, Hi, will you go first? I'm like, yes. I'll breach that door down, jump into the water. That's because I know you can handle it, man. It's always fun being here, Jeff. I enjoy myself. And, you know, we always have good, good. Intellectual conversations about what's going on in the industry. Absolutely. So hey folks, listen for tuning in. Thank you for once again, listening to us. And my suggestion is, if you are at all in this place of like, gosh, I'm a little bit like, what do I do? I need a little help, little guidance. What's the risk? Click the link, listen to the city and on the free group session. And then, you know what, you're going to learn something for sure, get some direction. And then if it's for you, great, if not, that's cool too. But, you know, go check that out further, links in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in everybody. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you, agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market. Attract and conferred agents into referral partners, plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates, real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top L.O's authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you. So you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call. We'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Hit over to mortgagemarketing.pro.