Ep #101: The Best Mortgage CRM You've Likely Never Heard About...Until Now

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. So glad you're here, so glad you're here. So a question for you. When you're listening to this, it's probably, you know, towards the end of the year and you may be doing some business planning, you may be looking at various tools, technologies, resources for things you want to do differently, better in the new year. And oftentimes around that with business planning, you start thinking about how are your systems, right? What kind of systems do you have in place? What types of things would you be launching? Maybe it's events for realtors, maybe it's, you know, doing some stuff online, getting better with social media. I mean, all the stuff that we know we should be doing, but maybe we just haven't gotten to it. Have those things been on your mind? Are you maybe looking for some guidance and some help to get started? Have you thought about doing agent events and classes? But what you struggle with is how to come up with the content for those. Well, hey, I can help. That's one of the things we put together for our pro members at Mortgage Marketing.pro. Every single month, a done for you turnkey kick ass agent class. That's going to help you get butts in the seats and loans in your pipeline if you follow a process and system. So we've got a growing library of turnkey done for you classes in there as well as other things to help you round out your entire business that include things like scripting, right? Having a better process that, you know, demonstrate your visible value and then becoming a modern mortgage originator. Things around social media, your online platform, how to do video, Facebook, right, ads, things like that. So check out if you want, if that's on your radar for business planning, right, and want to add some of those things to your mix or get better at them in the new year, go to Mortgage Marketing.pro. And you can learn more about that there. All right, so my special guest for this week speaking of systems and things that you may want to implement in your business, Jeff Irving, the CEO and founder of MLO shift. I call him the best kept secret in the mortgage industry when it comes to CRM's marketing automation platforms. Jeff is, you know, one of us, he's a former productive mortgage originator who really, you know, saw the need for better solutions around marketing automation systems and online, you know, marketing as well for loan officers and, you know, wanted to follow his passion and build this out. So I'm pretty savvy when it comes to CRM's and marketing automation. I've been around that digital space for quite a long time. And I'm very impressed with what Jeff has built out. Not only is he a great guy who cares and he's built his great community for loan officers for learning, you know, within the MLO shift community. But I mean, how many times do you see the conversation on social media about, hey, which is the best CRM, you know, this or that or the other? And of course, you know, the answer to that, the best CRM is the one you use. And what I love about Jeff is that he's made it easier to use. He's made it easier to get out of the gate and get started with a lot of the built in turn key functionality and built in templates and modules and things like that. You can easily turn on and get started and I've talked to a number of LOs that are using his platform and I've nothing but rave reviews. So that's why I wanted to bring Jeff here is to have a conversation about CRM's about marketing automation about how moving into right this digital shift that we need to, if we're going to scale, if we're going to grow, if we're going to be relevant, you better have some digital marketing in place, whether that's Facebook ads, whether that's social media, whether that's email marketing and so forth video, you better have those things in place. And the more you can have a system or a platform to help you manage and implement those on track results, obviously the better you're going to do. So that's why I have Jeff here talking about MLO shift and all that kind of stuff in general. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know I did and with that said, let's get into this week's show. Hey Jeff, welcome to the show. Thanks a lot for having me. I appreciate it, Jeff. You bet, man. Thanks for being here, especially on short notice and we didn't prepare much for this, but that's okay. We don't need to because we're both marketers excited to talk about marketing and so I think it's going to flow naturally. So I do a formal introduction in front of this, but I always like to allow you as the guest to kind of share your personal, you know, quick story. Who is Jeff Irving? What's he all about? Why is he in the mortgage business doing, you know, CRM? Yeah. So I got in the mortgage business in 2005 right before everything kind of turned in our area anyway. And I did mortgages for 12 years and kind of on the side that whole time I was constantly looking for new technology to implement in my business. That's more of my passion, more of my kind of actually more of my where my skill set is. And I tried pretty much everything that you can imagine out there as far as CRM's and marketing automation systems and eventually landed on a system called active campaign, which is one of the more well known marketing and CRM automation services out there. I built it out for my business. I literally came into the office at 7 a.m. every single morning for about three months and I locked myself in my office for three to four hours, let my assistant run the business. And I just built, I built automations, wrote emails, pipelines, stages, everything I wanted for my mortgage business to automate and to make easier to keep track of my deals and my leads and everything else. And finally I came up for breath about three months later and I had a complete, you know, top to bottom system for running my business. And we started using it and she loved it and I loved it. I had my best year ever by far and it was just, it was so helpful for my business that I wanted to share it with some of my friends, ended up sharing it with some friends in a Facebook group and they tried it and they loved it and it just kind of organically grew into a business and eventually it replaced, you know, I had two full-time jobs. So I had to make a choice, am I going to continue doing mortgages or am I going to move forward with MLO shift and I did mortgages for 12 and a half years and just decided it was time for something new and so here I am with my MLO shift t-shirt and sweatpants that you can't see working out of my house. I love it, I love it, I love it. That is the uniform of the remote entrepreneur today. Yeah, my daughter this morning said, Dad, you wear almost the same thing every day, like yeah, it's beautiful. You don't know yet. But it's beautiful. Yeah, exactly. That doesn't mean I'm not working. Yeah, exactly. I'm working harder now, I think, than I was before. So how many years ago was that where you started, you know, kind of realizing you needed some marketing tech to help you grow? Pretty much from day one actually, but there really wasn't that many good solutions out there. In 2005, marketing automation really wasn't even a thing. Eventually I found a software you might have heard of called Infusion Soft. Oh, sure. Try that. Yeah, it's a great, amazing software, but what I found out was unless I wanted to hire somebody to basically run that for me, it was going to take over my life. And so that was probably about five years ago. I was with Infusion Soft for a couple of years, and then Active Campaign came into my world, and they did a huge upgrade about three years ago to their CRM portion of their system. They were a marketing automation system first, and when I saw that, I went, I just came back, actually tried it before, but the CRM was very weak. So I came back and tried it again, and it was just, it was everything I've been looking for. All right. And it's evolved quite a bit since you've gotten your hands on it. And what you've done then, if I understand this correctly for those listening, is so Active Campaign is this existing marketing automation engine slash CRM. And what you've done is built out, I don't know, modules is the right word, but layered over applications, various tools to use specific for the mortgage loan origination. Basically, I take a blank active campaign account, and I build it out from bottom to top for a mortgage business. We literally have to take a blank account and build it each time. It's about a five to six hour process. And I import all of the automations I created with all the pre-written content and everything. So it's not the 200 hours I spent building, but it's a solid five to six hours importing all just getting it all into the system. So by the time we're done, it's got, you know, loan pipeline, lead pipelines, all the automation and everything that you would need for a mortgage business. And then what's so super cool about Active Campaign is that if you're somebody who's into this and kind of likes the automation and stuff, it's a completely open system. So I have a lot of members who are just creating some crazy automations and, you know, realtor relationship tracking pipelines with automated follow-up sequences and thank you cards. Yeah, it's probably my favorite thing is the customizability of the system. You're not trapped, you know, with the CRM that they hand to you. It's so flexible that as you learn the system, you can really make it do pretty much anything that pops into your head. There's almost always a way to do it. So that's number one, my favorite thing. Yeah, that's good. There's a lot of flexibility and kind of lateral movement for customization. Okay, for those listening, loan offices right now, I can't tell you how many times I'm in Facebook groups and I see people posting, hey, which CRM do you use? You know, I'm sure you see them all the time. You're probably so tired of it. And of course, you know, the answer probably as well as I do the best to answer to that is which is the best one you use. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm always curious about that when talking about CRMs. What makes yours easier to use or more, you know what I mean, you're more user friendly than maybe some others out there? You know, it's usually the onboarding that's the biggest obstacle. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And that was my biggest obstacle when I first started actually turning this into a business. It was the learning curve. A lot of systems, you actually have to go in and set up yourself. I won't name names, but probably some people can think of some organizations I'm talking about that are really powerful, but you have to go in and create all the automations from scratch. So that's actually the biggest benefit of what we've done is just a huge shortcut. You know, it's a three months and 200 or so hours of building. And then plus the two years since then, the things I've added on. So it's just a monster shortcut. And then when I had some members having a little bit of a tough time getting started, I went back and I tried to find a way to basically hold their hand to get them going. Because it's all about momentum and creating new habits. The system itself is actually very user friendly and easy to learn. It's more about the mental game of the mortgage person coming in. Are they committed to using systems and processes in their business and can we get them in the habit of doing it? So I created a quick start course. And there's a dozen videos in there that walks you through or walks new members through the very basic steps, how to look at an automation, how to edit one, how to import a contact, how to, you know, we have, if you can envision like vertical pipelines and you click and drag the deal from stage to stage, how to do that, and all the basic systems, you know, things they need to learn right off the bat. So within, and it's, and they're very short to the point videos. So within a couple hours, if they watch those videos, and I can always tell who's watched those by the questions I get. And if they've watched those videos, you know, I would say in the first week, someone is in there running their deals through milestone automations going out. And within the first about three to four weeks, anyone who's actually in there and using it, I'll get an email or a Facebook post and they'll say, wow, man, I just realized how powerful and amazing this system is. It's when you get in there and start to see what it can do and you interact with the other members and stuff and then it just clicks. And then there's some people who sign up and they never log in and then six months later they cancel and, you know, that's always going to be the case whenever we have a service as a matter of what it is. I mean, the gym membership is the classic example. Yeah. Yeah. And so you and I have a mutual friend Andrew Pollack from Leapops and after you and I talked originally about a week ago, I spoke to him afterwards and he gave you a glowing shout out. He said, favorite CRM out there. Awesome. And that's an unpaid endorsement there. Yeah. They actually have someone using this on kind of a project they're doing. So is that right? Very cool. Yeah. So why do you think I keep looking at your website here and I'm scrolling through the different things you do within your CRM and it's just like so much, I'll save that question for after this. The first part of the question is, why do you think in today's world, right? We're moving in 2019, there's a lot of noise and competition in the market and we know the classic situation, L.O.'s don't do a great job, typically of staying in touch with past clients, L.O.'s more and more and I'm kind of teaming this up, I know. But L.O.'s need to become a modern originator and have a presence online and have the ability to maybe self-genlead capture nurture. So why do you think today moving forward, right, with that setup, why is it so important that somebody has a marketing tool to manage relationships and manage leads and things like that? Well, as you said, there's more and more things that we have to do for our job. A marketing professional 20 years ago was coffee, donuts, some meetings, a couple phone calls. Now there's so many more things, the guidelines are more difficult, every all the relationship you have to maintain and now on top of that all social media. So the reason I built this system out, I can speak for myself, is that there was a lot of things in my business that I couldn't count on myself to do and things that were important like staying in touch with new leads. Like somebody would call me and I would follow up maybe leave a voicemail or send an email. And then if they didn't get back to me and I got busy, there was times I would completely forget about them, which is obviously bad reputational wise and commission in my pocket wise. So I wanted to put into motion automations that would not let me forget about them or that would keep reminding them about me, that would remind my staff, hey, you know, every single time the loan hits application receives stage, these are the seven steps that we want to have done. So I wanted consistency and process because I couldn't trust myself to always tell the assistant what to do or are always to be their coaching. So I actually set it up for communications, but also for internal processes so that I could train my people and have them doing it very, very consistently. I would use single loan the same way every single time. So that was super important, you know, for my business because stuff was slipping through the cracks. Yeah. What I'm hearing from that message is the importance of systematizing and having a process. And what comes to mind is the old quote from Edwards Deming, which is like if you don't have a system, you're just guessing. And so today, you know, a lot of the top producers I interview for listeners, you've heard from them consistently over time. One of the things that they have is a thread through their business is systems and processes and they're documented and they're clearly well defined. So whether that's a person who's executing a system or that's a piece of technology, you've got to have those systems in place in order to scale. I mean, how often do all those come to you? Why do you do they come to you most often to use specifically in your solution? Yeah, it's one of two reasons usually or sometimes people want both, but usually it's someone who has a disorganized business and they know they're losing money. Like there's deals slipping through the cracks. That's one portion of our clients. And then the other one is the ones that want to do online Legion and they want to automated slide broadcasts, voice mails and the emails and the text messages and the tracking and all of that. Some people do both, but those are the two main things that our system does. So yeah, those are the two typical clients in our system. Not everybody in there is doing online Legion. Although that's originally what active campaign was built for, it was to do automated follow-up. A lot of them are using it to systemize their business. And that's probably, you know, the biggest feedback I get is how beneficial and helpful for this is they always know what's going on with their deals. They always know where everything's at. They always know that the right things are going to get done at the right stages and that piece of mind for somebody, you know, I learned this from a kind of a mentor of mine named James Wedmore. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he says you have to slow down to grow, which is so counterintuitive. People will come to me and say, I don't have time to implement a system like this. And the reason you don't have time is because you have not implemented a system like this. You don't have the systems and processes to free up your time. And so that's just, that's huge. I think even before online Legion, which is probably the strongest point of the system, is getting those systems and processes in place so you can grow your business. Yeah, I agree. And I'm so glad you said that because I see a lot of people, bright, shiny object. They think, you know, the market's compressing the highest, smaller agents are slowing down. So there's a lot of answers to that. But what I often see people doing is they just immediately pivot and they go, oh, well, let me just like start running leads online. And yet their internal system is still still broken. And so you're going out there to try to generate extra business, but you don't even have the infrastructure of the systems in place to handle it. Right. I see that a lot. Yeah. I've got all these leads that I'm trying to manually follow up with them. Well, if you're doing a good job of lead generation, that's a decent game for sure. There's not enough time. Yeah. No doubt about it. And we all know we've, we've all hopefully heard, know the quotes about speed, the lead in that you've basically, if you are doing online Legion, you got five minutes or less to make a touch point of contact with that, that lead. And that's arguably not going to happen with you on the phone because they're not answering the phone anyways. Yeah. Yeah. You got to have a system. Even if it's off hours, you, you want to respond in a way that you don't want to tell them it's manual. But if someone pops in at two in the morning, you want to email in their inbox instantly and let them know, hey, tomorrow morning at 9 a.m., I will follow up with you as well. And then you want that automated too. So an email and a text message goes out the next morning at 9 a.m. And then if you're generating hundreds and hundreds of leads, you're only going to have to actually manually deal with the people who respond if you have your automation setup, right? Do you mean as a qualifier or an extra hoop to jump through? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, if you have, say you generate 500 leads in a month, if you are personally dialing all of those leads, you're not going to be working on your loans, you're not going to be working on your realtor relationships. So the way that we build our automations, I take it kind of a two step process. The first step is a very short, maybe six to eight day follow up automation that is very, very personal sounding and is essentially just getting them to schedule a time to call or reply to a text message or reply to an email. We're just testing the water to see if this is actually somebody who's willing to engage. But we don't want to go overboard with that because you can alienate people with that too. You know, 90% of the people who opt into something online are not going to be ready to talk to you. Yeah. So we follow up with them for six to eight days in a very, very personal way, letting them know we're here to help. And if they don't respond, the automation says, Hey, I haven't heard from you. That's fine. You know, you must be busy. I'm going to go ahead and just enroll you in my online email course, Homebuyer Education course. You're going to start hearing from me every single week. And whenever you are ready, just know that I'm here. And then we sprinkle in, you know, another follow up attempt a few weeks later, maybe a text message where we're going to stay in touch over time. So when they are ready, you know, a couple of months down the road, they're not going to think of anybody else. And of course, knowing your system, what I can tell from it is you've put somebody on that long-term drip campaign. You can still track the engagement with that analytics, who's open, who's viewed, whatever, so that could be a trigger moment for you to pick up the phone and call them. Yeah, that's where lead score and what could become involved. So if you know, you could set up a lead score. So every time somebody opens an email, they get two points. Every time they click on a link, they get an extra five points. And then you can have an automation set up. Okay, when a lead reaches 50 points, send me a notification so I can follow up with them. Yeah, you know, all of this, I mean, I'm getting all excited because I love all that kind of stuff. I love it. Yeah. I get that on it. I see, when you've got the power of that technology, either what keeps most LOs from implementing that kind of stuff? Not starting with the basics and thinking that they want to try to do everything at once. You know, I had a guy the other day saying he was overwhelmed and I said, man, don't worry about the stuff. Don't worry about all that other stuff until you have the basics down. Go through the quick start course, start moving your leads in there and when that's all running smoothly in, you know, four to six weeks and you feel comfortable, then let's talk about adding this extra big automation. And let's start running ads and let's, you know, there's some people come in and they don't even care about running their business there. They just want to do ads. I say great. Well, here's the course on that. You know, I've got 50, 60 some videos in there that shows someone how to connect it to Facebook ads, lead ads, how to connect it to a landing page. MLO shift includes a landing page software and it includes DAPIER as well, which is kind of the two things you need to connect at all, depending on what type of campaign you're going to do. So I think it's that they come in and they don't have a plan and they don't really know what they want. But that's, I help them a lot with that. There's a lot of times I'll get that email where they say, I'm overwhelmed and then we talk about, okay, well, what's your goal? You know, what do you want to do first? You know, go here and go here and, you know, I try to help guide them. There's a real membership element to MLO shift out. I will cap it out at some point. I'm not trying to grow this into a, you know, a 10,000 user software. It's more of a membership service that includes the software you need, but we're, you know, I'm here to help. You know, I'm not here to just give someone software. I actually want to help them use it and implement it and grow it in their business. Very cool. That's an interesting concept, by the way, and kind of surprising from a, you know, software company. Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't develop the software. I just learned how to use it better than most people and I learned how to, you developed a lot of the add-ons. Yeah. I did. How to use the software pretty much, you know, so everything I'm looking at here in terms of the marketing automation, the leads and loan management, all that was just functionality. You just added on top of active campaign. It's what active campaign can do, but you have to use, you have to build the system. Oh, most of it's built inside the system. So I went and created an automation. Some of it requires an integration without side services and that's where Zapier comes in and in Convertry and that kind of stuff too. So. Okay, Convertry, I know you and I talked about that last time. So it's the landing page tool that you have that's built in there and there's a ton of landing page solutions out there. I've looked at like all of them some good, some not so good, some overpriced and I saw kind of your demo of that, man, and that impressed me as well was how easy it looked for a novice, if you will, to just drag and drop and build a landing page. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you don't have to have any HTML knowledge and the landing pages are super fast. That was really important to me as well. I love it. I love it. And am I reading here done for you set up? Does that mean what you'll you'll set up the basic foundation for somebody when they come in on board? Yep. That's exactly what it means. There's a 40 or so automations, three pipelines. Oh, I don't remember how many stages, 18 or 20 stages, you know, everywhere from new lead received to, you know, docs requested in initial underwriting all the stages through the whole process. And that includes at least at the initial level here. And I'm sorry, I'm like, you know, if I put you on the spot, but it includes 25 users. Yeah, you can have up to 25 users in the system. So one distinction I will say is each LO that goes in a system, they have to have their own setup because the automations are tailored to the specific LO. So it's not like it's not an enterprise solution. I have branches that will come to me sometimes, not how I built it, it's not what it was intended for. The 25 users would be for like a team. Yeah. I actually had in my system, I'm no longer originating, but I actually had real estate agents in there. And I would create automations and I even created like a pipeline. So they could manage their leads and there's ways to set up user group permissions. So they can't see your stuff, but they can use your system. So there's a real value add there to provide some things for your agents that they're not going to do. Yeah. And I think I had asked you that once before, perhaps, but in terms of realtors and leads, let's say you are running ads on Facebook and, you know, you've got six realtors you're working with and running ads with them each separately. You can kind of have silos with them and they can get notified as leads come in. Yeah. 100%. Yep. Yeah. You can tag them. You can send email notifications. I even was, I had a couple of realtors set up with their own slide broadcast account and their own texting so that the messages were coming from the agent and I was just co-branded on the emails and then of course they knew any leads that came through those campaigns were mine. And they wanted to keep, keep using the system. So there's a real leverage there in that relationship because if they become, start to become reliant upon you to, you know, reverse, reversely, you know, we used to be reliant upon agents for everything. But if they've started to become reliant on you to feed their family some meals, it really evens out that relationship in a way. I didn't like the disequity in that relationship. Yeah. I didn't like having to kiss ass all the time, sorry, I don't know if you can edit that out. I'm not an ass kisser. I don't kiss ass for members. I don't kiss ass for clients. You know, I do everything I can for people, but if I'm being treated horribly like a lot of real estate agents treat that relationship, you know, I used to just move on and eventually I realized I wanted to flip that relationship to where, you know, they had to respect it because they were relying on me to a certain degree and it really changed the game for me a lot. I'm looking at a couple of the automations that you've got in here, lead in loan tasks. Huh? I like those. What are those? So that's the consistency and process. There are certain things that you want to happen at every, every single time at a certain stage. Totally, milestones. Yeah. So there's milestones. Yeah. So my favorite one is when the client docs come in and you slide the deal from one stage to the client docs stage and an email goes out to the support staff with a whole list of what to look for. You know, are there any cash deposits? If so, you need to document it with this, this and this. And I've actually had new LOs who didn't have experience in the industry come in and they told me, hey, I didn't, you know, these are training me and I wasn't my intention. I was just trying to, you know, get my system down, but they're like, this is so helpful. It's training me on what I need to look for at certain stages and what I need to do. I actually did a survey of about 40 high level LOs when I first started and I asked them to all share with me their best practices at each stage in the lead in loan process. And then I put it all together and kind of, you know, went in and edited and there was some crossover and then I took all of those tasks and I put it in the system. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. That's cool. That's practice and stuff. Yeah, I was super. They were doing things I never even thought of. So it was really helpful and it turns out a lot of people like that. What is subscribed by SMS? So somebody can send a text message in and it'll reply back and say, you know, send me your email address and subscribe to a list. So like say you're doing a realtor class and you have, you want them to subscribe to your list and you're going to send them a, I don't know, a checklist or something. You can give them the number and a short code and they text the number in and it sends them back a text, collects their email and then sends them the feedback. This also includes like this, this would replace the outlet calendaring. It doesn't have a calendar built into it actually. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice because I didn't build the system. Right. You know, I get to throw that back on active campaign. That's one thing I'd love to see in there. It does have really robust task management. Like it's got a really nice task management system. And I have had members who want those things on their calendar and it's just a simple zap. You just set up a zap. This happens in an active campaign. I wanted to add it to my calendar. Oh, no big deal then. Yeah. I remember back in the day when I used to Salesforce though, I still ran both systems out looking at Salesforce. Yeah. I don't think this would replace whatever you're using for just your regular day to day email. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about any integrations into LOS. None. None. And is that an issue? Do you come up against that? There's a couple reasons. One is I'm not a developer. Two is the couple times that we have tried to get permission. It's like, you know, we don't have thousands of users and a company's not going to give us permission to attach to their LOS for two people in their whole company that use it. And so the other thing is is when I had a system previously when I was working, I had a CRM that was attached for automated milestone updates. So the underwriter would mark the loan approved and all the communications would go out. I found more often than not, I didn't like that because I didn't have control of when those would go out. And there was times where I was packing up to go camping, underwriter approved a loan, you know, Friday at three o'clock. And now all of a sudden I'm getting the phone calls and emails because all these milestone updates went out. And so I didn't like that much automation. I at least wanted to know when the automations are going out. So a loan got approved. I could wait until I got back on Monday morning, trigger all that and then be around to deal with it. Right. Right. Absolutely. Very, very cool. I got to give a quick shout out because I'm on your webpage here and I'm probably going to butcher his last name. John Gianatacio. Oh, I'm not sure. I'd have to look at it. Maybe I got that right. Yeah. Yeah. But John, I forget. I forget. And wife. Yeah. Nice Irish boy. What group were you in? I don't know if it was my group or somebody else's, but he was just giving you big props. And so that's kind of also what led to us coming together here. He's a huge fan of it. What's coming next for you? Any things on the horizon for the new year? Yeah. Couple of things. I'm working on a real estate version. Oh, right. It's kind of a big one. Yeah. I'm also. It's the big boys out there. The top producers of the world and all that. Yeah. I want to keep small. You know, I don't want to go big. Like I mentioned, I want to keep it words personal. You know, I want to know the name of every single member in my group. And after a three or four hundred, I should labor of love them. You know, money is so secondary to me. It's not even funny. I took about a 60% pay cut when I quit the mortgage business. Yeah. You know, as long as I have what you're doing, yeah, you know, and for years, I chased the big house in the nice car and I got that stuff and I live in a pretty big house right now. And all I want to do is move to a smaller house. You know, it's a lot to maintain and it didn't make me happy. You know, I got all the things I was going for and it honestly didn't make me happy. At some point, I just realized that the only way I'm going to be happy and content in life is to do things that satisfy me from I got to go from the inside out. And so I do the things I love. If I make good money in it, awesome. You know, and I make good money now. We've got, you know, a good membership and I make a good living. And I definitely want to make a little more. I want to show my family the world. I want to travel. We're going to Portugal next summer, but it's not first, it's just so secondary for me. Well, I can relate, man, trust me. For your listeners, this podcast, I've been doing it since 2016 and as a matter of fact, January of 2016, so full three years. And it definitely isn't about, you know, I mean, it's not like I get paid to do this. So. Right. So true love. So hope you got. And by the way, if you're listening right now, that means you got to go leave me a review right now on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you're listening to this. Yeah. At the least, right? Yeah. Three years of free. Exactly. Love. Free content here. Bring it to the good stuff. All right. Cool. So for those that want to check out more about MMO shift, where would you recommend they go? The home page is the best place to go, just MLO shift.com. I actually, I didn't tell you I was going to do this, but I did a special coupon code for this. Sweet or podcast. Yeah. This is not available anywhere else. It's a 30% off upfront. Wow. And the code, the code is MM radio. MM radio. Cool. MM radio. Yep. And if you go to the home page, there's two main links you can click on at the top. The red button will take you to a training in a demo. Okay. That is. It talks about, you know, systematizing your business. So there's an actual training element to it. But then it also goes deep into how we do it and how our system works. And that's really the best place to check us out. And then if you have questions after that, you can reach back out. And I do every Tuesday and every Thursday, I do live Q&A calls for those who have watched that video first. I've done enough one-on-one demos. Yeah. Bad. Where do you do those calls? On a Zoom call. How do people get on that radar? You know, I haven't. I just started doing it a few weeks ago. In fact, I've got one this afternoon. So I haven't really promoted it yet. I will have links to that and stuff in the autoresponder when you opt into the training. I'll have that into. In fact, now that we've talked, I'll get that into today. Okay. Cool. So for them to learn more, go to mloshift.com. And if they want to get started, you're going to give them 30% off the setup fee as a loyal listener of Mortis Marketing Radio. Yes. Excellent. And that is the code is mm radio. I assume that's in the checkout as you're going through that. Very cool. That's correct. Yes. Awesome, man. Well, I can't thank you enough for number one, really giving back to the mortgage industry, right? Because I can tell it's a labor of love. And I can really relate on that. So thank you for that. And thanks for the special offer for our listeners and for you being here today. Yeah. That's an opportunity. Thanks for the invitation, man. You bet. And listeners, as always. Thanks for tuning in. Listen in. If you like this episode, hey, leave us a little love out there. We're ever listening to this. We're fine podcasts are provided. And go ahead and check out Jeff and MLO shift because I've heard from a number of people who I trust. And it's a very small circle. You know, it's funny, Jeff. I mean, I meant to say this earlier, but you are the best kept secret in the mortgage industry when it comes to CRM and marketing automation. And so hopefully this changes that to a certain degree. So. That'd be great. Go check out Jeff and all he's doing at MLO shift.com. And we'll see you on the next one, everybody. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. 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