Ep #114: The Resurgence of the Independent Mortgage Broker

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, how are you doing? Well, welcome. You've arrived. Here we are, April 2019. Right? January 4th. And here we are. We've now entered Q2. How's it going? Have you checked in? Are you on track? Is your plane, is your nose pointed in the right direction? A slight adjustment either way determines where you wind up. So make sure you're checking in on a regular basis that your activities are pointed in the right direction and that your activities are consistent and persistent enough so as to produce results. Are you busy or are you making real progress? Again, you know one of the hallmarks of high performing people is knowing your numbers. Knowing how many conversations lead to a loan app that lead to a closed loan, how many meetings with realtors lead to real engagement, lead to actual referrals. Start tracking your numbers and oftentimes the answer to how do I grow my business simply comes back to these two simple things. Talk to more people, get better at the people already talking with. So that said, if you're interested in getting better and if you want sure that you arrive at your destination in 2019, hey, this show mortgage marketing podcast is brought to you as always by the mortgage marketing pro membership where we're helping loan originators stay relevant, grow their referrals, make more money with less frustration and in less time. And we do that by equipping them with leveraged activities such as teaching agent classes and equipping them with compelling content classes, systems and processes that have been proven to accelerate the success with which loan officers have in meeting and converting real estate agents to productive referral partners. So that's one aspect of that. The other aspect of it, of course, is we do provide scripting for reducing rate shoppers getting better conversions with realtor meetings. We do provide modern mortgage originator training, imagine this, right, taking some self-paced video module course that help you get educated in how to set up a YouTube channel, how to set up your Instagram page, how to optimize your Facebook page, how to run Facebook ads and include some Facebook ad templates and the targeting options with that all under one umbrella in the mortgage marketing dot pro membership. I put up a eight minute video that gives you all the details about that. You can learn more mortgage marketing dot pro. And of course, I want to give a quick shout out to our friends over at the industry syndicate. What is the industry syndicate you ask? It is real estate's first media network content shows podcasts flash briefings and more all real estate mortgage focused. If you're into self educating, if you're into right learning and you like to digest audio and video forms of content, check out the industry syndicate. They got some more good stuff for you over there. All right, onto this week's special guest, honored to have this gentleman here. There was a movement of foot out there, people. I don't know if you've heard it, seen it, felt it, but it's happening. And that movement is is coming back to the growth and resurgence of the mortgage broker community. Now, I started my career, many of you don't know, at a mortgage broker shop way back in 2003, I think it was. And so I have a pretty good sense of what the mortgage broker environment was, what it became, and more importantly, it was what it's now becoming a new in its new resurgence, if you will. And there's some really cool things happening. And so Anthony Casa, who is he? He's the founder and chairman of the Association of Independent Mortgage Experts, otherwise known as AMA. He's also the president of Garden State Home Loans, which is a mortgage broker based out of New Jersey that he founded in 2011 and developed into the one of the top mortgage brokerages in the country based on annual closed volume. And you're interesting to hear Anthony's story about the record month they had. I think it'd be pretty blown away about the amount of volume they were doing with such a small operation. But here's the thing, what's really put Anthony on the map of late is in 2017, he founded Brawl. We're going to talk about Brawl. What is that? No, it's not a bar Brawl or a fight that you get into, although in some cases it has turned into that, unfortunately, a little bit on social media. But Brawl is brokers rallying against hotel lending. What the heck does that mean? Anthony's going to tell you about that. And then, of course, Anthony's latest vision is AME, right? The Association for Independent Mortgage Executives, that champions, the independent mortgage professionals, and doing a lot of things that are consumer focused and helping those that are considering transitioning their business and to be either working for a mortgage broker or becoming a mortgage broker, you've got to hear more about what Anthony's doing there. This ecosystem called ORIVE, ARIVE, Anthony's going to tell us about that. It's a fully integrated broker environment. Imagine this. Those of you who've been in the broker world before, you can remember when you had all the fragmented different things you needed to engage with and try and stitch together different platforms and tools to actually put a loan on, to get pricing, to fund and all that stuff. Well, Anthony and his team have solved that with ORIVE. It is an LOS. It's a point of sale. It's a CRM powered by Salesforce, pricing engine, lender connectivity, digital documents storage, all in one place, including this great ecosystem of like-minded professionals all focused on being the best professionals they can be and providing the best service and product to the end user consumer. That's what it's all about. And lots of things happening afoot with ORIVE, with AME, with Anthony, and really amazing stuff there. So I wanted to bring Anthony on in today's session to educate you, the listener, about mortgage brokerage, the difference between that and retail, what's happening, what to be aware of, and then that this isn't a big us versus them, right, there's enough space in the world for everybody to get a piece of the pie. And so as you know, I'm the chief truth seller here at mortgage marketing radio and I wanted to bring the truth to you guys. And so Anthony, I do believe we do a good job of unpacking the truth on this episode and helping provide you some context as to what's happening in the mortgage broker space, what's happening with AME to hopefully, you know, approach this from a take the high road in the conversations about, you know, different options for you and your career as a mortgage professionals. So I think you're going to enjoy this episode and we provide links to everything in the show notes. I will tell you Anthony's got a couple of events coming up. If you're interested in attending, one of them is in Florida on the 17th of April. There's links in the show notes. It's an AME workshop. They had about 1,000 originators, mortgage professionals attend the one in Irvine that I went to. This one's in Florida on April 17th. And there's links in the show notes. And also there's another one coming up in October, which I highly encourage you to attend. And it is called Fuse, F-U-Z, F-U-S-E. It's the second time they're doing this. Two keynote speakers this year in October at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, Ryan Sturhont, and Gary Vaynerchuk. Have you heard of them? Sure tickets now. They're available. And you can learn more by checking the show notes, fuse.amegroup.com is the website. And if you just want to go to AME, there's aimgroup.com. Remember AME is A-I-M-E. Go to aimgroup.com, check it all out. And let's get into this week's show. Anthony, welcome to the show. Hi, I'm Maria. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You bet. So, for those that are listening, how about a brief introduction? Anthony Casa. Who are you? What are you all about? I'm passionate about the mortgage business, which just give us kind of the brief background. Your journey in the mortgage space and what's led you up to heading up AME now. So I started in the mortgage business in 2003. I've been in the mortgage business for now 15 years. Lone officer, sales manager, branch manager, started my mortgage brokerage in 2011, which was Garden State Home Loans, which became one of the top brokers in the country. I recently sold my mortgage brokerage, but I started a brawl, which was a grassroots call to action for mortgage brokers, which kind of was a very provocative national campaign. I got a ton of attention, and I guess put me on the map of brokers on a national level. And then we started AME just literally one year ago this month, and AME is a trade association, but I think it's a little bit more than that. It's become sort of like the mortgage broker community place, where we have a lot of call to actions. We do a lot of advocacy stuff, but more than that's sort of like we do events. We do social media groups. It's really a place where brokers feel comfortable and kind of treat it like they're company almost. It's where they go to get information, share information, when they're struggling to get motivated, all that good stuff. So that's what we're doing. We have a lot of exciting things that we're working on. I think brokers are, for the first time in a little while, really, really not only relevant when it comes to in the mortgage industry, but I think everybody has sort of got mortgage broker on the tip of their tongue these days. Yeah. Yeah. So let's do this. Let's tackle the acronyms for those listening. Let's take brawl first. What does that stand for? So brawl stands for brokers rallying against wholesale lending, and the concept there is hotel means there are lenders that are wholesale lenders, but the reason why they're in the wholesale channel is they ingest loans from mortgage brokers. They close loans for those mortgage brokers, and the minute that they close those loans, their call centers are churning those loans, repurposing those loans for their own purposes. So right now is a prime example of what wholesale lenders do very well. Over the last 10 weeks, we've seen the 10-year treasury drop, 60 basis points, and right now we're at a very low point. So an opportunity like this, a company, and I won't name names today, but one of them is out there in Detroit, a big retail letter that we all know online. What they'll do is rate drop like this, call center goes into action, and every single customer that closed in the last six to 18 months is going to get a call to potentially refy, and by the time the mortgage broker has the opportunity to call that customer because they're obviously they don't have a call center, they don't have the technology that a company like that has. By the time they get in touch with them, it's too late they've already closed, so hotel lending is a wholesale lender that is in it for retail purposes, and basically the broker's rallying against hotel lenders was an action where we brought a lot of attention to the subject, and I would say that in the last two years, we've seen a very dynamic market shift in the wholesale channel that has led to national implications, but the lenders that were hotel lenders, it's a lot of them have changed their business practices. We worked just this week, John Gibson was on another podcast, and he was talking about how we worked with caliber home loans, they were a lender that when we came out we said, hey, these guys are a hotel lender, sat down with them, literally worked with the people that ran their call centers, the head of retention, the head of consumer direct, redid their entire policies, and over the course of six months, we came up the reconnect program so that every single past customer of a mortgage broker goes back to the mortgage broker, they're very, very serious about it, and in eight months since we rolled that program now, I want to say we worked with them, but they rolled it out, they've generated 45,000 reconnect leads back to mortgage brokers in eight months, so to think about that, if that wasn't going back to mortgage brokers, that was staying with the retail channel, so the impact in the economics are massive. What's the motivation then for somebody like caliber to do that versus just take it direct? Well, it's a partnership play, to be honest with you, they make more money if they do it in their call center, so if they give it back to the broker, first of all there's no guarantee that broker is going to bring the loan back to them, so he's their broker by nature. The second thing is that they make way less money on a wholesale transaction than they would make on a consumer direct transaction, so the reason why they're doing it is if with the awareness that we brought to the subject, basically brokers have said, we don't care what your price is, we don't care what you're willing to do for us, if you're not willing to keep our past customers in touch with us and you're not willing to make a commitment not to solicit them, we won't do business with you. As a result of brokers taking that type of action and not doing business with wholesale lenders, essentially what has happened is every lender that previously used to do these things has come back and said, we're not going to do those things anymore, we'd rather have your business than no business at all, so we've seen some of the biggest wholesale lenders in the game have changed their business back, some of them have said they've changed their business back, but actually haven't changed their business back, so it's still a relevant thing, and to me this isn't about 2019, even though currently rates are down, I think this is a long-term situation because what happens is wholesale for 10 years has zero growth, like literally 8% flat for 10 years, over the last 18 months since we started brawl all of a sudden we've seen almost a double of the wholesale channel, and the reason why is it's not that when these lenders aren't soliciting your customers, it's understanding that the pipeline of customers that they stop when they do that, because every customer will refer you three to four more customers, so if they're soliciting all your old customers and doing those deals, it's not just those deals again, they're also getting the referrals. Growth is back on the mend in the broker channel because at its core, this is no longer a business back to set a broker, so I'm going to accept. So you think that the whole tale lenders will call them, I'll use your language there, they've essentially kind of woken up to, I mean the word that comes in mind for me is the brokers, essentially boycotting the wholesale lenders, and the savvy wholesale lenders have said, you know what, we're in this for the long play, and we'd rather partner with the brokers, give up some profit for the bigger picture, is that what I'm here? No, so I would not say boycotts bad work, so what I would say, I'm a billy, it's really my ability, all right, better, thank you. So the thing is this, it's like if you're in a situation where a company is not doing the things that they say they do, or if at the end of the day they have a business practice that you weren't necessarily aware of, like I'll compare it to this, and this is drastic, but it does have plausibility is cigarette companies for years said, cigarettes don't cause cancer, so people are saying they're smoking cigarettes, yada yada, then all of a sudden cigarettes do cause cancer, and it's out there. Once that happened, this is a piece of information that for 30 years, cigarette companies said it didn't cause cancer, so people kept smoking because they're listening to these companies tell them it didn't cause cancer. Once they knew, even though, you know, they still should have known, they stopped doing it. So now you're in a situation where it's like for years, brokers thought that these lenders are shoulder customers, but now it's actually been identified and it's real, so it's one of those things where, you know, it's okay if you still want to work with those lenders, just understand, I tell them it's time to go, if you want to work with those lenders, not yourself out, because you now have your making up, it is an important business decision, where you know that they're going to steal your customer, and if you're okay with that, don't complain about it because you're the one choosing to do business with them, you either hold them accountable or you don't hold them accountable, so it's not boycott or about accountability. So two thoughts on this, ultimately, and I'm sure you'd agree with this though, that's been happening for years, because I can even remember working a country right back in the day, right? They would still be kind of doing that, calling my own customer base. So, ultimately, it's really up to the responsibility of the individual loan officer broker, professional, whatever to build a fence around that customer. However, what you're saying is it's pretty hard to compete at that level because we don't have the resources if I'm here in New York, you can say that. Well, I think there's this argument, it's like a lot of retail loan officers that I talked to say, say a smell similar, like, oh, well, it's your job to stay in front of your customer, okay, a couple of things here. Number one is you're saying that because you work for a company, you don't stay in front of your customer and they sell the servicing because you have no control over who they sell the servicing to, that they're going to steal your customer. You have no control over that. You work for one lender, you don't have optionality, so you're stumped. I get that that's your situation. For mortgage brokers, don't have that situation because what's happened is we have optionality, so a company like UWM, the emergence of them over the last, you know, I guess really last four years since they've been the number one wholesale lender, you know, they have a business practice and they said, listen, we're in it for the broker, we're going to give every feedback, we're going to give every deal back, we're going to do everything we can do to put the customer in front of the broker. That leader has now made the rest of the other lenders or most of the other lenders have to respond to either do the same thing or not, but now that's a competitive advantage or disadvantage for people. So for me, yes, the broker does need to stay in front of their customer, but the thing that I look at is when you aggregate brokers and loan officers and you actually go to these companies and you say, listen, I understand that you're going to solicit our customer. If I'm one guy and I say, I don't want you to do that, they say, we're, you know, those are all over you, they say, we're going to continue and business waited, but when 30 to 40,000 people say, hey, listen, we're really going to do business with these good guys that are doing loans the way that they're willing to commit to long term, yeah, we're not. The people do change. So like, I like the way I look at it is like, yeah, this is the way business has always been done, but the reality is once you actually aggregate and take a hard position, you go from being an employee or just accepting the way things are, to actually, you're negotiating, like, this is truly a negotiation. You need, like, what, the way I talk to matters, I say, you need to change your economics, okay? If that means that your pricing is slightly worse, if that means that you have to adjust your business model and some capacity, if that means that you have to actually invest in training the broker to stay in front of the customer better, adjust, adopt, adapt, like, that's the way I look at it. So like, there is a fundamental thing in the mortgage business that I think is the reason why disruption is so scary to this business is that the way things have been done is the way they're still done today. And if you try to challenge it, everybody says, no, no, no, you can't do that. And I think with Brawl, we challenged it very hard. And now all of a sudden, the retail guys are saying, hey, we don't even get our leads back. In our own company, we have a direct consumer channel, they solicit our own customers. So it's an interesting dynamic, but this is, you know, we are influencing change by aggregating people. Yeah, what I love about that is it proves today that people can create change and rise up. And so the broker's got tired of that situation happening. And you kind of created a platform and gave them a voice and then created a map, you know, the masses that actually could influence that change with Brawl, right? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that they need like Bruno Broker was going to step up and call out. Individually, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're not, nobody's going to go up against quick and freedom, paying back on people, like you're just not going to do that. Even even to be honest, when we start this called action, like I did it, I was still a mortgage broker, obviously, I was in my business shot. I was in my, my, my, my brokerage. And when we put out the press release, and I, you know, made the call to action, everything within a week, I had the legal councils for the biggest banks in the country saying, hey, listen, dude, we are going to sue the living daylights out of you and you're going to have nothing left. And you know, for me, at the time, I was 32 years old, four kids, you know, a house made good money savings. So you're like, oh man, I'm going to lose everything if these guys come after me. But the decision that you really have to make is like, either you're going to be another person that gets intimidated and bullied and pushed into a corner and let this whole thing that's going on continue. Or you're just going to go all in on it. My decision was like, listen, I'm going to put my blinders on. And if they sue me, they sue me. And if I lose everything, I lose everything. But I'm going to see this thing through. So, you know, to me, you know, eventually brokers saw how powerful that was. And the court is, it's almost unbreakable right now. Yeah. And you've got people rallying behind your movement as well. And that's what's awesome. That's really what you've created. It is a movement. You ought to come up for another acronym for like balls, you know, because you've got, you've got balls. We are working on it. There's a couple other acronyms. All right. Well, that's a good backstory on brawl for those that, you know, because I've talked to a number of people and they weren't unaware with, you know, with that man. So thank you for that, which now leads us to aim. Kind of bring us forward to aim. What does that acronym and tell us really what's the purpose of aim? So aim is the association of independent mortgage experts. And basically what led to aim was when we started brawl, the first one, we didn't expect the support that we got. We had such a large amount of support. I mean, within 90 days of starting brawl, we had over 10,000 mortgage brokers following us, supporting us, basically telling letters that they need to change their business practices. So, you know, to me, it was great to have the grassroots movement, but you need an organization. You need to be something wrapped around. So we started aim. It's a nonprofit trade association for independent mortgage brokers exclusively. And to me, at its core, I focus on the originator. I think the layers in the industry is what causes disruption. And it's also what causes market shifts. So when 10 years ago, when Dodd-Frank had been in the housing crisis, so that stuff, the reason why 80,000 loan officers left the broker channel and went to the retail banking channel is because at that time, the broker channel was not a good option. Landers had left the channel. They weren't treated well. Their regulation was very scary. It wasn't a good time to be a broker. Everybody went to be a retail banker. And at that time, that was a great platform for a refrigerator. Because there were all these layers, most of these companies were in their infancy stages or early stages, you know, movement mortgage guarantee rate rate. Back then, they didn't have regionals and divisionals, and all these freaking layers were always making all this money. But over the course of 10 years, the add a layer, add a layer, add a layer, all these people come on board. And the problem is, at the end of the day, the person that has to sell that rate, that covers all that margin, is the loan officer. And they're the ones dealing with the consumer. And the reason why there's margin compression right now is because A, the market's contracted by, you know, 20%, 25%, and there's less customers out there that's just as much competition. And all of a sudden, these guys are like, like consumers are smart enough to know that they are ready to point, point at higher than what the brokers are giving them. And so now we're having this big issue, where all the nots issues are great thing. All these loan officers are coming back to the broker channel. We had over 3,000 loan officers come to the broker channel last year, 8% growth of the number of loan officers in the channel in 2018, which over the previous nine years before that, there was zero, right? Last year we had 8%, this first quarter. So far, I haven't got the official number, we're personally, this is one of our things that we do is help support the loan officers that are transitioning to the broker channel. We've had almost 1,000 loan managers that we've helped just this quarter. So, you know, to me, the reason why they're coming back is because here they're in a position where they can control their margins. There's a cap on how much they can make. There's no layers. And the association of independent mortgage experts, like to me, the role is how do we protect loan richeners and mortgage brokers and brawls one of the things that how do you protect them? You make sure that the people that are doing business with Marge and other customers, how do you support them, whether it's compliance, whether it's legislative relief, whether it's technology, whether it's advocacy, because people all consumers need to find out how I find a mortgage broker. Those are the things that we're doing as an organization. But more than anything, what I really wanted to accomplish is like, why does somebody work for one of these retail bankers? And when I really peeled away at the layers, what I realized is it's, well, you know, I have that market leader or that regional guy that kicks me in the body, keeps me motivated, keeps me, you know, dead and after it. I have that motivation. I have the, they have, you know, events where we all get together and we talk about S practices. So when I went through the whole thing, it was like, oh, so all the things that the reasons why are, have nothing to do with mortgages, have nothing to do with the day-to-day transaction piece. It was all about kind of like helping like keep me motivated and focused. And I think that's what we're trying to do with aim. It's like, how can, you know, not me, but how can this organization bring people together in a organic way where there's not, you know, layers of financial repercussions to it. But like, we're going to support each other. We're going to motivate each other last night at nine o'clock at night. Broker had called me and said, oh, you know, I'm really down. I'm having a tough month. It's like, you know, I got into the work district where I am. And I was like, the last thing I want to do was hop on a call. I felt that I needed somebody to motivate me at that point. So I called the guy and we talked for a half hour. And that's not sustainable. I can't do that for 40,000 people, but we're trying to create, you know, other people that can kind of be imparting out the years. Yeah. Be there for people. So it's, it's, you know, I'll use this word ecosystem. And we'll talk about, um, arrive, obviously in a few minutes, but you're creating this, this ecosystem, if you will, or community that's a supportive environment where, where brokers can go for support, for education, for, um, transition strategy, perhaps. Yeah. I'm mentoring, transitioning. Yeah. I also think for more than anything, it's like, you know, the biggest thing is like how you behave with your consumer. I think one of the things that I've seen is like a year ago, I would have brokers in our Facebook groups say something about, you know, something to do with handling of a consumer. And, you know, the, the broker community would go there and say, hey, listen, no, no, no, like, you know, better purchase the house you have, you know, they would kick in and tell them how to do it right. And you see behavioral changes. And it's not that there's any bad or good, it's just that you became a broker and you were never a broker before. You don't know what the good practices are. You don't know how to best support your customers, how to build processes and systems. You're, you were a sales person most likely. So you were never a operations person. Yeah. So my level of peer-to-peer support, where nobody's actually making any money off it. Like everybody's helping as a volunteer and just doing like a good deed. That's what really drives this whole thing is like, yeah, without the expectation of return management, we have from UWM says it's all the time. And he's, you know, I guarantee home loans, we were one of their top brokers in the country. And I actually got to meet him in an element. And so I, I have a great deal of, you know, respect and just admiration for the way he runs his business. Right. So like he says that all the time, like, give without the expectation of returning, of anything in return. And I've heard he used to say that I used to kind of roll my eyes, but now it's something I genuinely, like, I firmly go through my life and just go do everything about because I look at it and it's like, you know what, I'm going to help this person right now. And I'll help them to get him out if they ask. And let's hope that one day, not that they're going to help me, but that they're going to help somebody. So that's one less person I have to help. So like right now, I start off, I have 40,000 people reach out to me. Well, that's probably down to 25,000 because 15,000 are now getting help from other people that are part of this network. And I think that that's what's going to drive the ecosystem. And more than anything else, I think that's how we get to a sustainable profession in not just mortgage brokerage, loan origination. Like to me, the biggest thing is like the three hundred basis point to 800 basis point margin is not sustainable technology. Well, it's Amazon, well, it's quick and whether it's better mortgage, those companies will put a product or technology on the street that will eliminate the loan origin, or if we're trying to operate those margins, 100 to 250 basis point margins, that can be sustainable. And I even think it needs to be under 200 because realistically over time, you're going to have to be more competitive. But you know, my big thing is that communication, collaboration, and nobody doing anything for, you know, hey, I'm getting an override. That's why I'm helping. You know, I'm helping you because it's just the right thing to do. Yeah, the days of, you know, back when we were doing the, what the hell with those loans called the, you know, the negative equity effects, the coffee loans and all the kind of, you know, with the three-year hard pay options. Thank you, the three-year hard pay and on people. I remember in my office, people were just like making decisions based on the fact that they had a three-year hard pay and they're getting the max points on that. I'm like, I did one of those and I just, you know, it's only because the real, it was a real turn and he knew exactly what that loan was all about. But other than that, I was just, I couldn't do that, right? Because I had the DNA of the long term. And you know what, that's a great point. And that's actually something like that. That was, so I got into this in 2003 at 18 years old, okay? I've cut my teeth in that type of environment. In a call center, lending tree, option arm, subprime, like, like, I didn't learn the business from a relationship standpoint. I learned it from a call center standpoint. And the problem that, you know, is too young to know at the time, but by the time, like, the housing crisis happened five years later, I got to learn the ramifications of bad practices and creating their own stuff. So I had an awakening. I had like a total epiphany where the first five years, it's like, yeah, you're making money. And economically, for yourself, things are good. But if you aren't being an advisor, if you're not actually looking up for the best interest of the customer, hey, people are going to hurt. You're not going to have sustainable business. So there's no referrals when you screw people over. We don't look out for people. So post housing crisis, that's why I started going to stay homeless. I said, you know, I'm never going to work for somebody yet. I am going to like, yeah, I went into that environment, the people I respect it at the time, because they taught me business and they told me how to make money. I lost our respect for because I realized how that out of the leaders they were and how unfocused they were on customers. So guards stay homeless. Our whole model was like, if we a only do what is right for the customer, we explain everything, massive transparency. We never, we had a thin margin model. And our whole focus was, if the customer, it doesn't matter if the customer's right or wrong, if the customer even thinks we did something wrong, we're going to re-fight if appraisal fee, they thought we're going to cover it or give them credit. We're going to work well. The customer is always going to be right. We're always going to do right by them. That's why as a company, we grew and we're successful. That's in the broker community. I definitely think that that's what we're doing as a community right now. It's like we're so focused on consumers. That for the first time, it's not like, hey, how much you're making on this deal. It's all about, what was the customer experience? What's your strategy to get referrals or have them help champion you and social media to get into their network? It's all about the long-term now. It's really fun to see the behavior don't change. I love that. I love that. Who do you think then in terms of somebody listening? They've been at one of the banks for a while. Who's right for possibly considering being a broker and who's not? I think there's a couple things that go into business. It's not just everybody should be a broker. It's a different model. I think there's a couple things. I think number one, understanding that you can either start your own mortgage brokerage being a business operator, which that's something different or you can go work for a mortgage brokerage. I think what it comes down to is if you work for a bank and your entire business is predicated on a job-boat product or a construction loans product or some type of product that's specific to that bank, well, if you want to be a broker, because you want to expand your network or start a new network, you can, but just understand that any of that business, that you're focused on right now, all those customers and those realtors. If you can't do those products as a broker, because it's not a specific product that's out there, you probably, that business isn't going to come with you. Those referrals are specific to the products that that bank offers, so that's real. The next thing is if you're a loan officer for a non-bank free-taile lender, whether it's a guaranteed rate or a loan-deep or one of these companies have a distributed network, I think what you have to evaluate is a company. I think what you have to evaluate is what are you trying to accomplish? If you're so goal is I want to be a relationship manager, and I want to not be in the weeds of my day to day, I need a lot of support, I need the marketing, I need all these different things that these lenders do for you, that creates that higher margin environment, or I need MSAs, or I need real state relationships that are financially backed by lender, that's probably where you have to stay, because realistically, as a broker, A brokers have a cap on margin, so that's one thing I love about our industry, and I hate that name is trying to advocate against raising the compensation, is because I think having a cap is a good thing, I think brokers can't make more than 275 basis points, so with that said, it's one of those things that it's a transparency thing, we have to disclose our compensation, we can't make more than 275 basis points, so you're in a situation as a broker, if you get the worst deal from a mortgage broker, it's going to be at least 100 basis points better than the best deal that you get from a mortgage banker, so I think if you're coming into and you're saying, I'm all referral, I don't do pay to play, I'm not paying real estate, I'm not paying me for referrals, it's all organic relationship development, relationship business, I don't need a marketing arm, I don't need any type of crazy support outside of my transactional support, and broker is going to be a really great model for you, because you're going to be out of the lenders at this point, UWM is a prime example, Calvers, a great example, these lenders are doing fulfillment at a better than retail experience, so right now, UWM is closing $7 million month and rising in loans on average 10 days or less, so you're talking about retail, nobody's that fast and nobody's doing that kind of item, $7 billion a month, you're talking about 80 billion hours, that's a number one lender in the country buying, so to me, I just look at and say, that's a good channel for you, but for the guys that I would say that I should be concerned, if you're at a point in your career where you're coasting, you like the support, you're not customer, you're not necessarily focused on giving your customer the best deal, retail is probably a better model for you, but I will say one of the biggest arguments that's out there right now really comes down to what I've been talking about on social media lately, which is EA loans, like the model is broken, fundamentally, and it's been an eye-opening experience to understand that the way that retail lenders do their economics, I've learned this from the people that run the retail banks, is they essentially know that they have to be competitive on conventional, they have to be within a quarter to three eights per cent in rate on a commercial loan from what a broker is at, and the reason why is the doctor putting 20% down with a 740 cred score is not going to take a rate that's a half a point to a hundred basis points higher than what they can get on bank rate or silver from a broker. So with that said, they try to stay as competitive as possible, and then on the government loans, they make up that margin. So basically what they do is they say, hey, we know on average our loan officers do 20 to 30% government loans, and we know on average those people are putting 5% and less down, and we know that those customers aren't going to be shopping around. So they really, really break up the margin huge there. So to me, I think that's an eye-opening thing for a lot of these retail owners, for Virginers, when they see what a customer could get from a broker, and the fact that they could make the same or more being a broker, but giving the customer a hundred one point lower rate, that's one of those things where you have a moral limit. It's like, are you doing what it's truly right for the consumer? Well, a lot of people working in the retail lending situation aren't even aware of that though. So it's a nice thing, it's not there. I actually look at it and say like, I always tell people come and be like, hey, why are you attacking? I'm not attacking the model. I think you're awesome. I think your customers think you're awesome. I think if you're doing 10, 20, 30 million dollars a year in business, you've built a great business, and I have a lot of respect for you. I know how hard it is to do what we do on average trading. So I have all the respect and welfare because they understand the model is what's broken, and at the end of the day, like, your realtor's refer you to the customer. The customer trusts the realtor, so they don't shop around the go to you. When you do that loan for them, and it turns out that you have a a veteran that is buying their first home, and they're buying a house for $250,000. Basically, the difference in that 1% and interest rate, or that 3.4% interest rate that higher that you're giving them versus what you could be giving them, is the equivalent of them buying that house for 20% more. So they're going to pay 20% more interest. So instead of being a $250,000 house, now it's really a $300,000 house. So just like manufacture that into your thought process, and I've had people say, well, you know, I do well, and you know, I'm comfortable. I'm like, I get it. I completely get it. But just understand, first of all, that model is not sustainable. These eventually customers are going to find a better option. Right. Anything you're, if you truly look at yourself as an advisor, like I'll give you a prime example, customers would come to garden and stay home loans for jumbo loans. We were at a minimum at, you know, this is from the big banks, and this is going back five years ago, four years ago. But at that time, we were about half a percent higher in rate than a customer could get from JPMorgan or Bank of America, one of the big banks. So they would call in, and our policy was this, and it's not that we are like, you know, just these, these, these holy rollers are just like, you know, good people or whatever. These work for profit business, but like, it was a half percent lower. And our whole thing was this is like, hey, Mr. customer, I could easily offer you this, and maybe you wouldn't shop, and maybe we would do, yeah, make money on it. But we don't want to take the chance. Here's the five banks that we know, and this is the rates that they offer. We're not a jumbo shop. Go there, and a lot of people tell you, no, you have to offer them right. And yeah, but my thing was the, what my experience is, it's eventually to people do shop, and either they revive, you get a really pay off, or they, or they way through the process, they buy that rate, and they go with them anyway. It's just like massive transparency, and they're saying, hey, this is what's best for the customer. And let me just refer them to that place. That's not where I'm going to do my, my best work. Well, and that's also knowing your lane, too. Like if you were in a jumbo shop, because I deal with that all the time, people are like, you know, griping about how they can't compete on jumbo. And I'm like, well, then find a different product niche, you know, like you said earlier, it's like, if your company doesn't, it doesn't have the jumbo product, but somebody else in the market does. That's a great, by the way, that's a great, you know, that's really being an advisor and putting your customers' interest ahead of yours. I've interviewed other people who have said that to customers, and that comes back to you, indirectly, in different ways. Every time, every time I could tell you every single person I've done that for in my market, in my history, I've got our salons, it's not that I lost that person's a referral. Like literally, the person admired so much that they still refer to me. So here's the truth is, and no offense to any bank loan officer, but they don't offer the same service that we do. It's true that those guys are at 45 to 60 day closings. It's not an efficient process. They don't even try to pretend to be that. So they know why the customers are coming to them. They actually want the process to be longer, so they have more time to try to get checking accounts and all the other stuff. So just understand the service. It's not you're not going to lose that customer, but to me, it's just understanding, knowing what you're good at, but from a high level, even right now, when I have my priorities list with Amy, and I talk to the team that's at a rive, I tell them, my number one goal for the mortgage broker channel is we have to get a competitive jumbo product to compete with those guys, because brokers want that product. And I've talked a lot of barriers, we're working on it, it's something that's in the works, but again, until that happens, it's, hey, not a financial advisor, he can do 5.29, it's a forum case, he can do certain things, but you go to him and say, hey, I need a certain retirement product that he doesn't specialize in, he's going to send you to a specialist, like, like, understand, you can be a specialist and not do everything, not to get jack of all trades. Absolutely, great point. All right, that's that's actually a nice little good coaching session there. So let's do this, let's transition and talk about a rive. Another acronym, I suppose? No, no, no. Tell us what a rive is all about, man, but there's only one r in a rive, so it's cool. Yes, it's a r-i-d-e, so everybody's like, you spelled a rive wrong. No, that's the cool thing to do these days. Yeah, that's like the end thing, Uber ride. So, yeah, so, you know, this was an idea that basically, at Garden State Homeland's, our old thing was after we closed our record month in 2016, our last 2016, we had a record month, we closed 300 units, 308 units for $110 million of mine. We're a small company. We're a 38-person company, so we're doing on a current loan basis. That's my, that is literally unheard of. Yeah. And after that month, literally, I walked in the office on the September 1st, and I walked around the office, and you know, I look at my processors, and you would think like, we just closed our record month, people are going to do this pounding. I'm five. Like, everybody's happy as hell. People look beat up, people look broken because it was exhausting to close it. It was hard, and I pushed everybody to the max so we could actually have a record month. So, people were broken up. So, what I realized is that the current broken model, as of that time, we were one of the most efficient operations in the industry in the broker channel. And, unless you throw bodies at it, it wasn't going to work. So, what it really came down to is how do we connect the broker at this time? It was broker with our wholesale landers. But that time we worked with UWM. They offered a point of sale called Blink to all their brokers, and we took that application and we integrated with our Salesforce. And that little bit of connectivity, that's just one little bit of connectivity, created massive efficiency. Like, I'm telling you, it took 25% of the data entry redundancy off of our shop. So, when I saw how like a little bit of connectivity created all this efficiency and automation, I was like, man, brokers, if they actually had a connected experience from a regionation through closing, man, at that time, we had a 8% market trend broker channel. I was like, just organically, they could probably double the volume. And that's kind of where a rive came into play, it's like, hey, what we need to do is, we need to have a third party decentralized system, where instead of the brokers logging into every one of the landers portals and manually bringing their data into the landers portals. And if we had a broker portal, where the broker, you know, and let's say in office, I believe that they have a cloud experience, which our experience is all going to be sales for striven. They have a cloud experience where all the letters are building the typing to the broker portal. And now the data is coming back in lifetime, the rate sheets or the pricing is coming back in lifetime, the document delivery, it's not being manually uploaded, it can be shot over in lifetime. So that's where the concept came from. And essentially, what I did is I went lender by lender and I told them about the concept. I went over all the areas where A, I believed it would help brokers from efficiency, automation, business growth, CRM, staying in front of your customers, all those things that would create. And I went lender by lender, I started with UWM because UWM's number one lender in the country without their support. Honestly, I don't think you can do really anything of large scale. So, you know, again, going back to the do what's right mentality, give without the expectation of return, I explained it to UWM. And mad issue, it was like, brokers need that. Like the first thing, brokers need that. And it's funny because the follow-up stuff I got was a lot of people from other lenders were like, wait, why would UWM integrate with an external platform? They have the best technology in business. Like everybody uses them because their platform is so good. So like, everybody else is like, oh, this is great UWM, they're, you know, they're going to give away their competitive advantage by integrating with a ride. This is the different in the mindset. Like, to me, this is all about that mindset. It's like, one guy is saying, I want to do what's best for my customer. Everybody else is like, oh, this is how we, you know, this is how we beat our competitor. And it's like, it's just these things that make my eyes pop. When I present to everybody, they should be like, this is what's best for brokers. I present to people and they're like, oh, this is how we beat those guys. And again, that's just the false mentality. But at the end of the day, we got eight lenders to adopt and integrate with the platform. We had over a hundred lenders actually being acquired or to be integrated with the platform. But one of the things you realize is when you're building a decentralized platform with lenders and banks, this has never been done before. There's a lot of security. There's a lot of work. It's very, very expensive to do it. Every one of the costs to actually get a lender integrated to the platform is probably about half a million dollars. So eight lenders, that's four million dollars right there. So it's something that has been under, has been being worked on for almost a year. And next Monday, so on April 1st, we have our first large scale group of brokers coming on. We're going to start bringing on brokers on a weekly basis. But here's what I tell people. It's arrived as going to be a digital mortgage broker platform. It's your CRM. It's your LOS. It's your products comprising an engine. But over time, what we hope it's going to end up turning into is it's going to be a fully open source system. So hey, listen, like we arrived not meant to sit there and be the technology of the broker community. Like it's not going to be paying compasses. Oh, we, you know, we're it. This is all this is all there is to it. And the problem with that is when the technology is bad or it's outdated, you get lost like you fall behind. So my whole thing is we just want to be the connection. Okay, we want to bring connectivity from consumer to broker to lender and then open source and start bringing in best in class technology. So hey, listen, if, um, total expert, if lossify, if somebody has a better piece that they can integrate to help brokers be better transaction agents and great, we're going to be open source. Let's let's let's let's allow this to be completely open. So the best in class technology will win. So it's really more of a marketplace than anything. But it's been challenging. I'll be straight with you. It's, you know, it's one of those things where gay, the lenders on board, these are huge financial instruments that they had to make. It was a challenge. It's from a training and, you know, brokers have been using the same technology for almost 25 years. They've all been using K-Lex. So getting the proper training, getting the support in place to help them transition, but also support them when they get on the platform. Like that's been a challenge. So there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, but like to me, everybody that is on the inside all of our data users are highly used every since the same thing. It's like, it's not only what it is today. It's what it's going to be a year from now to years from now. They see where the roadmap is going. And it's exciting because the way I truly do look at arrived, what it's going to do is it takes away the last barrier for retail region to become a broker. It really does because if you're a retailer today and you work for a company that has connected technology, LOS, underwriting the whole thing, you've looked at a broker mile and you're like, hey, I know I can make more money over there. I know I can get better rates as my customers, but I got a manually exported three, two, and then imported there. And I have to manually bring my conditions over and manually, like, they're like, dude, I'm not doing that. Like, I'll sell the higher rates. I'll do the extra work. Like, I'm not going that well. So when people see arrive, they're like, okay, you've just essentially created a mechanism where you can be an independent one-man loan or a chair working from your home. And it's like the same thing as being a retail loan or a chair working for the biggest, you know, for guarantee rate or something like that. So back to the balls thing, man. Yeah, you definitely got them. I mean, because this is a huge undertaking to create this unbelievable platform. I'm looking at all the elements of arrive, like you just to recap for anybody listening. That's a Salesforce integrated CRM, right? A point of sale experience for your borrowers, LOS software that interfaces with underrated processors, funders closer. So you would expect with an LOS bringing, you know, these lenders all under one roof to make it easy to look at pricing and offers and stuff. Yeah, products and pricing engine. That's a big one. Right. That's huge. I mean, that's so huge because I can remember that from the broker days. And then of course, community, which is a huge element of that as well, because the working brainstorming and ultimately, like you said, man, for those that the broker model might be something right for them. And it's not right for everybody, like we said, now you've got like, you're empowered in your equipped to actually have perhaps your own business or to make that shift. If you're looking for that different model and not leave all that security of the, yeah, exactly the security of the big. The one thing I do say is like, if you think about Airbnb, like, do you know how many landlords have been created views of Airbnb? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think about the Airbnb is, I mean, it is where people go to this property and find properties direct. So like to me, I look at it and say, like, five years ago, there was no Airbnb. Okay. That didn't exist. The only way to be a landlord was to buy properties, have a real estate, have a management company, like, that's what you did. That's a marketplace now. And that's changed the entire economics of the way things are done. Even individuals, like, I have a, one of our video production person, Nicole Piranha, she's in the process of listing her property for sale. She said, what, what should I do? Should I get a real estate? Should I, you know, put on Airbnb? And just the fact that she, as a first time person that's going to, you know, this property that Airbnb is now like one of the, it was just one option. Now there's two options. It just goes to how fast things can change. So I look at it arrive and I say, I get the way that somebody is a lot of retail guys are like, well, I, you know, I don't know if it's that big of a deal. Yes, it's going to be that big of a deal. And the reason why it's going to be such a big deal is that you only compete with brokers right now on X amount of business. Right. The minute that all those efficiencies are made and they no longer have to sit there and babysit the loans, do all that manual work and all of a sudden people are rowing and scaling their businesses instead of just trying to maintain it. It changes the economics. They're going to be able to, they're going to be in your realtor's office. They're going to be looking for those deals. And when they're able to sit there and tell their realtor's like, hey, listen, me and your, your other guy here that's in the office, say you send business to out, we're a half a point lower, we're three quarters of a percent lower, or we're giving that customer a bigger credit. Whatever it is, once that value proposition is made, you have to understand like that's going to force you to do something else. Whether you become a broker or you leave the business, that's going to force you to do something. So to me, it's like, it's going to be a big game changer. And I would say five years from now, whether or again, other people might steal the idea. I mean, again, it's been, it once it came out, everybody said the same thing. Why has this ever been done? This is the most brilliant thing in the world. Guess what? Arrived might be the one that brings it to market. Some other company might come along and build a better mouse trap with connectivity. And that's fine. At the end of the day, I personally only care about driving down the, what the consumer is getting, the interest rate and the fees, driving down the cost to originate and mortgage and creating an empowered originator. So to me, like if you put the originator in a position where they don't need all this infrastructure and they can consume the best deal, well, guess what? Mortgage, a loan original professional will be around in 50 years. Okay? These, now you're in a position where a loan original has a fixed cost model with all the efficiencies that they need to be able to do loans at the thinnest of thin margins. So if they're competing against an Amazon mortgage or a Zillow mortgage, it's only making, you know, a thousand dollars on a loan. Hey, I'll do a loan for a thousand. I'll do a loan for two thousand dollars because if you don't have to do any work past application, is you have that connectivity? Well, now you're in this where you do 50 applications a month. So like to me, it's understanding not what the environment is today. It's understanding that 10 years from now, when Zillow, when Amazon are our competitors, that you're going to have to operate at a thinner margin level and you're going to have to change the economics of the way your business model translates. It's going to be more volume-based. And in that environment, you're going to need best in class technology. That's exactly what we're trying to accomplish. Well, that's a whole, that's a very interesting conversation, perhaps or another session about technology-based, you know, volume-based business going up against those big boys. Okay, so let's do this for the time we have left. There's a couple of events coming up for you that I want to make sure our listeners are aware of. The first one is in Fort Lauderdale. You do these awesome workshops across the country. I was at the one at Irvine. There was like what, 800 originators in the room. That's awesome. So the one in Florida is coming up. When is that? 17th of April, I believe. Yes, so April 17th, we're on Fort Lauderdale, diplomat hotel. And you know, we haven't done any events on the East Coast yet. And this will be our first one. We're really excited about it. It's a smaller venue. We're only expecting probably like six to seven hundred people. But we're excited. We have a huge number of brokers that are in Florida. We have a huge number of retail owners, chairs that are in transition to brokerages in Florida right now. So we're really excited about the event. Awesome. And then the next event you've got coming up, which is later in the year in October, looks like you're, I don't know, is this your big coming out party or what? You're calling this fuse. Is that the name of the event? Yes. So, so last year was our first fuse event we did it. That's where we announced arrived. This year we have Gary D. We have Ryan, Sarah, I'm familiar with our listings. They're both going to be speakers at the event. It's going to be a big event. We're you know, last year we had 1,300 people come to the event. We're hoping to have over 2,500 this year. It's at the Bellagio Hotel in October 12th. And we expect there to be a lot of technology announcements. We expect a lot of the lenders that we work with are playing on making their big announcements. So it's actually kind of transitioning from like a industry conference to more of like a, hey, this is every like the all the lenders right now are sitting there saying, hey, we're we're going to bring in our big offering for the following year. Well, it's a new product that they're doing, whether it's a service offering that they're going to offer brokers or technology like everybody's competing on, hey, this is where we present to the broker community. What our new value prop is next year. And we're ready to offer it. So it's actually really exciting. It really is. Oh, yeah. I wonder how they're approaching it. So, I want to make it clear for everybody listening. We'll put links to all these events in the show notes because the registration for the fused event and Vegas in October is open now. And I'm pretty confident you're going to sell out. You know, so I would advise you to go in and get there. Get your ticket now. I'm definitely going to be there because it's only like 20 minutes from my house. So why not? But anytime you get a chance to see those two keynote speakers get around this incredible community. You're building of loan officers and, you know, what's happening. This movement that's taking place, man, that's awesome. So I would say this is that, you know, a lot of people like, hey, listen, the way I look at it is if you're a retail owner, a chair right now and you're curious, like you're just like, I see this model. I'm curious. But like, you know, you don't want to put yourself in a position where, hey, if I reach out to somebody, I spend time with them, like you feel bad saying, no, come to an event, okay? Just being a observer. You're going to get six hours of content in the event in Florida. We're doing it two hour training on arrive. You're going to hear from Mattish, head of CEO of UWF. You're going to hear from Phil Schumaker, the head of home point financial. You're going to hear from me. So like, you're going to be able to hear from all these broker channel industry leaders. You're going to hear from old, for CR product offering from a technology standpoint and kind of get a vibe from all the brokers, because it's very peer to peer focused. What's going on? What issues are we dealing with? How are you tackling them? And just experience it. Your name tag is just going to say your name on it. It's not going to say John Doe from this mortgage company, like come and observe it, because in Irvine, at our last event, we had over 200 retail loan refrigerators come to the event. And every single one of them, I'm telling you, every single one of them, when I, throughout the day, as I shook hands and talked about, like, hey, what do you think? You know, how do you feel about the event? Everybody said the same thing, like, geez, this has been eye opening. Like, am I going to go be a broker tomorrow? No. But like, this was a thing that was just like, hey, I just want to scratch the surface on it. It's like, this is a real model. This is a great platform. And I'm genuinely looking to take the next step. So I said, just come out. It's caused nothing to come and be an attendee and just experience it. Yep. 100%. And I have to concur with that, by the way, when I was in the room in Irvine, because I had a short-standing antobrogation, and I left the moment to countrywide and other banks for most of my 10 years. But it was, yeah, it was eye-opening educational. And it's none of this, you know, us versus them thing. It's this total welcoming community that we all, you know, everybody just wants everybody to do well, right? And take the path that's going to get us there. It's ultimately serves the customer. So I think you got a good vibe going with these events, man. Absolutely. Thank you. Awesome. So as I said, we're going to put links in the show notes, any other means of connection if people want to reach out to you, any suggestions, how they should contact you? I would say the only, the only other thing is it's so aimgroup.com. I am egroup.com. You have it on your shirt there. I appreciate you wearing it. That's really good. You can put it right here. Get the mic out of the way, yeah? Was hoping you'd wear it. Yes. So, you know, aimgroup.com is our website. If you just want to, you know, kind of take a look at what's going on there. If you are a loan originator, looking to become a broker, one of the things I recommend is there's a dmortgagebroker.com, so the dmortgagebroker.com is a website. It's a platform that UWM rolled out, which basically they created a group within their organization. They're not salespeople. They're strictly support people and all they do is if you just want to call and understand compliance, licensing, anything about becoming a broker, they answer your questions. 100% confidentiality. They won't like your post on social media. They won't friend requests. They're very discrete. But that's a way where if you might be intimidated by reaching out the aim or you might be intimidated about, you know, reaching out to another mortgage broker, you can do it very discreetly. And again, at the end of the day, I just, you know, our whole goal is for people to know about their options. Well, it's consumers. Mortgagebrokers are real estate agents. Optionality is very important. Absolutely. 100%. Listen, man, I know you are super busy and I appreciate you carving out time for today. And I think that listeners, this has been eye opening for them educational dig into the show links and everything. So you can further your investigation, your engagement with the whole aim community that's happening. Anthony, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Looking forward to seeing you on the next map. Yeah, for sure, man. And listeners, as always, we thank you for tuning in. If you like this episode, let us know you know how to do it. Give us love out on the socials. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in Mortgage Marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus, done for you proven marketing materials and plug-and-play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seeds, partnering with affiliates, real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top L.O.'s authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from 8 to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.