Ep #115: How To Grow Your Influence and Get Leads on LinkedIn

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing. And that is called LO Launch. LO Launch is a six week small group intensive deep dive boot camp Navy SEALS. If you want to call it where we are going to dive deep and help you get your business to the next level here in 2019. So we're going to dive deep on the most, the number one request I always get from loan officers is how do I get more success with real estate agents, right? How do I get in front of them? How do I get them to notice me? How do I have a compelling value proposition? Get more meetings, FaceTime, ultimately get more referrals, get more loyalty and things like that. Well, that's one of the key things we're going to be talking about. But also, I'm going to bring to you lessons I've learned from interviewing over a hundred of America's top producing loan originators going to share some of those strategies and tactics and business plans for you to implement on a weekly basis. So at the end of six weeks, here's the goal. You've got a system, a plan, a blueprint and action to support you getting to whatever level it is that you want in your business. We're going to work on your personal mindset and your self identity and a lot of other cool bonus items that are going to be coming that I don't have time to tell you about right now. But here's how you can learn more depending on when you're listening to this. We may have the founders coaching a group launched. So if you want to learn more and get in on the initial group, the founders group, you go over to L-O launch dot me. That's L-O launch dot me. That's where you go to learn more there. Okay. So secondly, as I also want to tell you that I am a proud member of the industry syndicate, which is real estate's first media network. So if you're looking for access to more good content, coaching, shows, podcasts, Facebook lives and things like that, right? That network over there is growing rapidly in terms of content providers at the industry syndicate.com. So go check them out. You can of course always search industry syndicate. You should get them coming up for you on the web when you search for them. So there's that. All right. So let's talk about my very special guest today, Miss Judy Fox, Fox rocks, and who is Judy, other than just an incredibly wonderful, warm, humble person who is blowing up linked in doing some incredible things. She's a video and content strategist. She hosts her own podcast. She's a speaker. She is what her claim to fame actually, reason why I want to have her on is because she has logged, you know, received well over three million video and content views on LinkedIn in 2018. Over three million, right, video views in 2018. I mean, folks, that is blowing up in a big way. And Judy is one of those few people who actually does understand how to leverage LinkedIn to grow your personal brand, to grow your influence, to create engagement and connection with the right people, and most importantly, in the right way. You probably see a lot of people do what I call brand burn on LinkedIn, meaning they are spamming people, sending the wrong messages, not engaging properly, and in some cases even automating the, you know, contacts that they want to convert to relationships on LinkedIn. And so we talk about all that kind of stuff. We talk about best practices. And we really just have a nice organic conversation about how you decide where you spend your time in terms of social media, in the various platforms, and you'll hear some compelling reasons why LinkedIn should be high on that list, especially considering some of the enhancements that are rolling out to LinkedIn, which you'll hear about from Judy because she was at LinkedIn corporate just a week before we did this. And she has got her finger on the pulse of what's coming for LinkedIn and how you can take advantage of it. And anything we talk about on our session with Judy, she's got her own LinkedIn coaching group that she's rolling out here in April. And I'm actually a part of that going to participate. So there'll be links in the show notes to be to check out more about that. If you want to go to her website right now, you do so at judifox.com heads up. It's j-u-d-i-f-o-x, judifox.com, Fox rocks, this episode rocks, listen, take notes, listen, do it again, guarantee you're going to love this one. So let's get into this week's show. Judy, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to finally have you on. You are just blowing up on the internet. And I don't know how you make time even for a little of me, but we are grateful for it. So for the listeners who want to know who the heck is Judy Fox, what's she all about? Tell us. I am a video and content strategist specifically focused on getting you results on LinkedIn. Hmm. All right. And LinkedIn seems to be bubbling up and people's radar a lot lately. Why is that? Is there something in the water? Or why is that coming up? LinkedIn. A bunch of things happened, but in a row, LinkedIn was purchased by Microsoft. And then they added video capabilities to upload video natively by natively, like directly to platform. You do not need to upload and put them from YouTube or video. You can just put them right on LinkedIn and they added so many more features. They're constantly updating the platform. I was at LinkedIn last week, the headquarters. And there is so much good stuff that I cannot say what is coming down the pipeline, but I know it and I'm all in. All right. I'm going to make a note of myself to ask you something in a minute. But before I do, um, yes, I want to speak in a video on LinkedIn. You know a thing or maybe three million plus things about video on LinkedIn. I'm reading a stat, tell me if it's accurate, you hit three million video views in 2018 on LinkedIn. Yes. Yeah. That was three million. I mean, it doesn't even count all the number of people who tagged me, who saw my hashtag. I mean, it just, it's, it's scratching the surface, but that was literal counts of views on my content. All right. So what, how do you get that many views? What did you do to get so much buzz? There's so many pieces of the strategy that you put together and all the pieces of the puzzle. I think was that just one video? No, no, that was not one video. That was content throughout the year. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Um, I think the first thing about LinkedIn is that you commenting on other people's content. So me going over to your profile and your content and making a very good comment on your content. So I turn around, you do three tips of whatever, you know, do a video. You've got three tips. I add three more and I say in the content of your video, I add, oh, and if you do XYZ, that turns into content for the platform. And sometimes, and I have seen the bigger you get, the more you provide value on the platform, people will see your comments on the platform and will actually like, and sometimes you can get up to 100 likes on your own comment on your post. So our likes worth something unlike they've become perhaps less important on Facebook, right? Where it's all about comments. I definitely think the likes and comments are very valid still on LinkedIn. I don't know all the things about like Facebook or Instagram as far as how they're driving traffic or how they reflect on your sales and your return on investment. But it 1000% it matters on LinkedIn. Well, it seems like, and this is a kind of a teachable moment for everybody, it seems like these, these social platforms are really moving towards as, you know, Zuckerberg says engagement, right? And engagement is really comments and having a discussion. So we're seeing that on Facebook, you're just pointed it out clearly on LinkedIn. It's the same as true on Instagram, you know, it's like we talked about Chelsea Pights, right? Before we went live, she's awesome. She was on a podcast and she's the one who first kind of educated me on that, whatever she calls it, the drive by high five or drive by like or something, you know, we're just like the thumbs up and you're out. It's like, no, having a meaningful comment, that's what really drives engagement for you. Yes. And at this point, and I go along with the same strategy that I hear from people who have gotten really, really big. And I'm on my path. If you spend the time writing back to every single comment, you're going to go further. First of all, you're sending a signal and a message who cares about the algorithm. Let's throw the algorithm out the window for a minute. You're literally treating human beings as human beings because each person is a valid person. They have spent their precious time and energy giving you a comment. You almost owe it at this point to give them love back. So if you're starting and I hear this from YouTubers, I hear this from every single platform, you've got to spend time in the comments. And you have to, honestly, the more you comment around the platform on LinkedIn, the more you'll drive traffic to comment on you. I mean, show interest to other people and they'll show interest in you. And you know, we're not perfect at it. I've had to step away for a couple of months because I needed to work on the business side of my company and, you know, going all in on getting those views is different than the business side. So if you're doing it all, you have to start to build that balance. But now I'm back on and I've said, hey, guys, sorry, I'm back available. And I'll make comments now and live and breathe in the community. But that's what it's about. You've got to be alive in the community. Yeah, I think the message I'm hearing there, and like you said, other people, it's echoing. And then I'm trying to relate to my listeners, which I'm glad to have you on, is these social platforms, air quotes, social platforms are meant to be just that social. They're not meant to be a spectator platform, right? But they're meant to be engaging and socializing, which means talking and everybody matters. Yeah. That's that's a good point. Actually, excellent point. That's like everyone wants to be seen and heard, even the people making the comments. They want to be seen and heard. Well, I know. Think about it. So you and I, we're on a similar path in a journey in terms of like building our tribe, if you will, our brand and all that stuff. And yeah, I mean, it feels good when we get a comment because you feel like, oh my god, I work matters or whatever, right? But the same is true for the other person who's maybe not trying to do that. They're just commenting on their day, perhaps. And so if you think about it, all those people, and again, I'm thinking from the LinkedIn platform, yeah, if I was able to not spend time commenting and replying to everybody's comment. But what if I actually spent the extra time to go click on each of those person's profiles and comment on their last piece of content? I mean, that's some serious, that's some serious time on the platform, but that's honestly a lot of what I did for a very long amount of time. And I'm not saying I won't go back to it. It's just, it is a lot of work. I mean, I won't say it's not. It's a lot of work. Yeah. And obviously, when just people start hearing that, they're like, you know, I don't have time to do that. Man, what am I going to do just to live on these social platforms? I didn't do it on all of them, and I did it for a concerted amount of time. Now, what I will say that I tell people, I said, look, I know not everyone even wants or needs to get 3 million views in one year, but what is important is if you pick 10 people to do that on, you'll still go further than if you do zero. Are you saying you should identify 10 people you want to go deeper with or what do you mean? I think you should, I think you should pick, and that's the strategy I talk about with a lot of people. And I work on that strategy with people. And you know, it doesn't have to be the same 10 people all the time, but just think in groups of 10. Yeah, maybe once a month, it's a lot easier for you to wrap around. So maybe you have to rotate 10 a month or something, and maybe then you pick three out of those 10 where you're always going to be for whatever reason because you start to build relationships. And I was even telling you earlier that there's some people that when they become super fans, you want to honor them because you didn't get where you are without them. And it's hard to remember that and it's hard to honor them in the sense that you really should become friends. I mean, if you like them and they like you to the degree that you probably, why would you create strong friendships with people you don't like? I mean, that sounds weird, right? But I mean, yes, I think as you get huge and millions, you may get super fans that you just don't connect or bond or you don't know what to talk about, but you still are going to create your content and it's still going to resonate with a lot of people. Okay. So I wrote down this question here and I've seen it bubbling up a little bit to your, you know, so back to the video thing. So so now we can natively upload video right to LinkedIn, which is awesome. Quite a question about that. Actually, first, do you think the video content, you know, because the whole thing with LinkedIn is like, oh, it's a professional platform. So do you think the style of video you're posting on LinkedIn should be different than perhaps like Facebook? No, I've actually taken Facebook lives and Instagram stories and I've repurposed them for LinkedIn. I think the main thing you need to focus on with LinkedIn when you do that is the value in the video needs to be there and the value in the written copy. I think too many people, and again, this is my philosophy, this is my strategy, this is my method. Again, got me three million views. LinkedIn was always a visual written platform. It was not a video platform. It was not a place that people naturally thought, I'm going to go there and consume video. Right. So if you are leaving the copy off the table as I actually think the copy sometimes is even more important than the video. And I personally will give away all the value that's in that video in the written copy. And I will not expect anyone to have actually watched the video. And other people have different philosophy, but that is my method. It has worked. And again, people still end up watching my video because I do certain things in my video that drive traffic. I've, I've like, you got to experiment, you've got to try things. But if you can be engaging and retaining, you're going to have some people watch the video, but you're not forcing anyone to watch the video. And I think that, to me, that was important. Sure. You're giving me the option, let's face it, people, even though we were visually oriented, some people prefer to read to consume content. But what may happen is they may consume a few sentences or a paragraph, and then they're in, and then they're like, okay, I'm going to hit the play button. But I watch other people who have been successful in that platform, and they really, really drive people to watch their video. Yeah. Everyone's got their thing. I specifically made a decision that I was going to do it the way I was going to go, and it works. So, yeah. Let me ask you a question then about those who, you know, aren't video ready, you know, the old objections about how I don't want to look like, how I look on video, don't like how I sound, you know, all that kind of stuff. Do you think there's still a place, I mean, look at it, LinkedIn's moved to video. Everything's going to video, sucks like, you know, Facebook couldn't be all video. I mean, is there a place for people to survive without using video? I think there is a place, but I think people don't need to create as much video as they think they need to create. And I think if you are able to do a live video like we're doing right now, you were able to wrap your head around doing one of these a month. We're about to record for how long, 45 minutes. What if you broke up 45 minutes into 10 videos? There's got to be 10 nuggets of videos in here that can be broken up one minute sequences. What? With you on, yeah. Okay, fine, even two or three, you reach a point where you can make videos that can be some content mixed in with written content or pictures or I just feel like enough. You can show up on video enough if that is, if you really need to be on video and you reach a point where business is just not being done if you're not on video then. Well, that's really my question and you might be answering that in a nice way and a nice friendly way. I mean, it's a great idea to chop up longer videos into segments. I agree 100%. So maybe I'll push you a little bit, I'm back to the question. When it comes to somebody choosing, let's say in our case, most of my audience is loan officers, maybe a little bit of real estate agents and so I tend to be, maybe I need to pull back a little bit, but I tend to be beating this drum that in today's world, like Gary Vee talks about, all you're going to have left is your personal brand and everything going to video. So how do you get chosen in my proposal, if you will, is that if you don't have video to some degree, you won't be chosen. Am I wrong on that? I'm willing to be open to be potentially wrong. I think you could probably still, I mean, there's so many ways to do video, right? So many, so many ways and one of those ways, especially if you're not comfortable being on video, is that I have a videographer probably because you're not necessarily comfortable, have one that is able to come and video maybe clients that are totally comfortable being on video. You can start to still, maybe there's a section of the video that you do that is whatever it's scripted at something or sometimes your voice over a video of the user experience. Maybe it's people walking in your office and you're sharing something and we can hear your voice. Again, there's a lot of ways to make video that isn't as hard as people think and it's a soft kind of, let's go in the, what is it, zero depth pool, like let's slowly wade you in and I think there's so many ways to do it. So yes, people who are afraid there are creative ways to do it. You can even put still pictures to video and talk over it. Right. I've seen that with real estate with listings, for example, sometimes they'll insert images of the property and you're right, the realtor is never actually on the video. So thank you for pointing that out for those listing. It is a way to kind of. We have a video recently that went to 600,000 views and it was a real estate agent showing a property. Was the agent in the video? No, but I mean, I, I felt somewhat connected because the agent was the voice over. It was highly cut, like there were cuts, cuts, cuts and it was a little bit funny because their voice behind the scene was a little funny. So they did have some personality come out. Like, this is obviously the living room. And so it got people laughing and it got people kind of, but it was 600,000 views and I was like, you nailed it. Wow. That's cool. That's, see, that's good news. I wanted, I felt like I got a lot on these podcasts. It's not really scripted, right? So I go where I feel compelled to ask the question and that was like a great answer. So thank you. I think it's a great shot. I was like, I'm going to use that as an example because I really think people underestimate how far a video can get and they just don't, they, like you said, I'm going to use it. A lot of people are just talking about the get on your phone and take video and be really raw. And that's not always it. Good point. Okay. Before we close on on the video discussion, perhaps we can always reopen that door, but it's about everything. Yeah. Three hours later. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to set you up here. So next, I'm going to transition to like, you know, talking about LinkedIn, Do's and Do's and Do's best practices, that kind of stuff. And then I have a couple of questions, obviously, for you. So, but before I do LinkedIn live, live video. So I know you, your privity kind of that I've seen come sign of what they're doing, like it appears that it was initially only for like college students or something. What can you tell us about live video? Live video. I'm LinkedIn. I've been rolled out to a lot of different people. I still don't have access. It's okay. LinkedIn. I'm okay. Where is my LinkedIn hat? Call up, call up the seat. What's his name? Exactly. I'll call up Jeff. Yeah. But, you know, they are rolling it out and I understand why they're rolling it out in a specific format, a specific way, because they also, they really do want it to work and not have glitches for the masses. So when it does go out, it is a lot, it's been perfected and refined and it's been tested. So right now they are in that testing phase. And I think what is really great about the lives that I've seen so far is, you know, we're able to see them when we're scrolling the notifications. So I do get notifications when someone is live. I am following, if I see somebody and they were live or I see something, I follow that person because I really want to make sure I'm following that and I'm paying attention to when I see them go live. The most successful lives that I have seen have been a combination of things, but they are, I've seen people at conferences going live so far. I've seen people doing like interview kind of talk lives, you know, two people on screen talking about a subject. I've seen Kathy do, Kathy Hackel, she was doing more of a demonstration type of live showing how something works with somebody else and I thought that was really engaging. Again, there's a lot of people showing up on live and I just went some access. Well, when you get access, what are your plans do you have some thoughts on? I think because I, hello, I was pushing to get live for social media marketing world and I know Kathy's going to be there and she has live on her phone. So I already like, I've already sent her messages like we are going live. You know that, right? So, you know, to be honest, I think being able to go live allows you to maybe sit down and say, what were the top five questions that people asked me this week and maybe kind of have a pattern or show that is either a live Q&A and then have, I mean, I would love to do that and then I think another area of live would be doing interviews and doing talks and saying, go live. And again, I'm probably going to plug what I know, but I know Switcher Studio and Switcher makes great, you know, what is it like mobile and desktop, ready type of applications that will make your lives look even more professional. Like for example, we could pop up right now that you're talking to Judy Fox and we're talking, you know what I mean? Like it has those elements. Switcher Studio, can you go live on multiple platforms at once, you know? I haven't played around with it on multiple platforms, so no, I've only ever gone live on Facebook using that and I don't have access to LinkedIn. So LinkedIn Live, I will go live on Switcher Studio. They're going to be there next week at social media marketing world, so I will spend some time talking to them about that. Do you know if the live on Instagram too many social platforms are my, I know there's a live, there's IG TV. The live on LinkedIn will that have some of the similar functionality to a Facebook live, meaning perhaps a screen share, perhaps bringing people on, you know what I mean, and allowing them. Yeah, I haven't seen that functionality quite yet. I haven't been able to see that again, I'm just kind of playing around with it on my mobile and I've seen it once on my desktop where I was able to catch a live as it was happening. And I took a screenshot and I took some videos of that live while it was, but I didn't see a feature like that into live. I see that you can see who's commenting. You can click on their profiles and actually from that live, you can immediately follow each person that made it. Really, without having to hop out of it. Nope, you're still staying in the live. Oh, that's cool. That is, that is actually really cool. I like that. Yeah, building your sphere of influence. So LinkedIn, LinkedIn, I'm trying to think about my audience because I know one of the compliment things they struggle with and you've seen and heard of this quite a lot is, all right, man, like another social platform, how do I, where do I decide to really invest my time? Because you mentioned something earlier about going all in, you went all in on LinkedIn, massive success. I interviewed somebody yesterday that would be coming out on the podcast who went all in on YouTube, massive success. She's not on Instagram, doesn't feel like she's missing out. So do you think somebody has to perhaps, is that, does that make sense to start with deciding if I'm going to go whether it's LinkedIn or whatever, do you think that's a helpful strategy? I think it is really helpful. I mean, especially if you're wanting to test the waters of saying to yourself, okay, I want to be on social media and I want to get results. I think you really do have to pick a pillar, a kind of a stronghold. And by picking a stronghold of LinkedIn, doesn't mean that I then didn't sign on to Instagram or I'm now looking at YouTube video and how I can start growing there. It just means that it gives me a way to test out my method, my way of showing up in the world. And it doesn't, like I said, I may not grow to Instagram crazy heights. I mean, I may, but what I noticed is the same thing. If people are fans of you, they will start following you on all the other platforms. And I went from, I think I started Instagram in August, August of 2018. I just signed on Instagram and I'm now at like 1,200 or something. And so I mean, again, it's not or shattering, but it's also being able to show up on Instagram rounded out my content. And I turn around and teach people how to take what they've already done, especially if they've created content for other platforms. I love this. I've been taking YouTube content. I've been taking Instagram lives. I've been taking, you know, Facebook lives and I've been doing it myself and doing it for clients and showing them how to repurpose that content and put it on LinkedIn. Right. Okay. So I like that pillar content. And that doesn't mean you don't kind of, you know, experiment with some of the other platforms. But should people make a decision on which platform based on somewhat taking into consideration who their target market is perhaps, you know what I mean, again, this is, I say this all the time, if you're not getting results with what you're doing right now, then you should be looking at maybe you aren't where your target audience is. I mean, I think it's, you've got to give it some time. And this is again, why you need to get consultants or coaches or somebody with an outside perspective and you've got to find somebody that's trusted in the industry that can look at you from a holistic outside perspective. And that is why I do tell people I'm like, I didn't just look at LinkedIn. I do spend time on other platforms and I've successfully grown on other platforms. But I do that because I'm not trying to spread myself too thin, but I want to pay attention to what works and try to find those trigger points and see how I can play around with it because if you're not willing to play around on social media as a coach, as a consultant, as a strategist, then what are you doing? You should be the one experimenting for your clients so you can turn around and say, okay, here's what I've seen. Here's why I think your content maybe isn't converting on this platform and maybe why you should switch pillars. And sometimes that turns into, I told a client yesterday, I said, yes, I do LinkedIn, what I see doing on Twitter is actually I think converting more clients and converting more conversations and causing you to get more engagement and driving more traffic. If that's working, then let's work on that. And they were like, yeah, but you're not a Twitter expert. I was like, well, again, some of the same principles apply and I'm saying to them, this is where I finally come in and I'm like, look, if you can get results on Twitter, I can turn around and add in the LinkedIn package on top of what you're doing on Twitter and is that interesting to you? Yeah. But I'm not going to help you, you can keep doing what you're doing on Twitter and I can add to it. Good stuff. Yeah, it's about noticing what's working, right? I mean, it's not like, are you an expert? Notice what's working and also be willing, like I said, number one, be willing to hire somebody to get an outside perspective, even if that's just literally one hour of listening to a strategist, jump on a call, pay them for that hour and be like, what do you see? And that hour may cost you $500, but that hour could be probably the most best spent money you've done because you can't see inside your own bubble, sometimes the outside looking in and diversity, we talk about that all the time, but diversity, especially if you're running a small business, you don't have that outside perspective. Yeah, you're too close to it, for sure. Yeah. There doesn't have to be a $30,000 contract and every, you know what I mean? Yeah. Find out and then sit with it. So I love that because that was a great general overall kind of coaching session, if you will, on evaluating where you should be perhaps spending more time on a particular platform. Just then kind of bring it back to the context of LinkedIn specifically because that's obviously your wheelhouse and then the audience, of course, being load officers who are thinking, okay, so here's how I see load officers, consumer, right? They just happen to be on LinkedIn and be working at a company or whatever, self-employed, right? They have a profile. But then there's the real estate agents, right? Or referral partners, but they might want to, you know, drive an engagement with and get to a relationship so they can build a referral relationship. So setting that as a premise, feel free to have at it, right? Open Mike with like either biggest mistakes you see people making or just suggest some best practices. I think I'll start with suggested best practices. Again, I go back to my, to start from a place that's not overwhelming because a lot of people and I, I'll be honest, I mean, when you're in it and you know it, you can overwhelm people because the sheer volume of the, well, the sheer volume of like, even just saying to me, Judy, what is your strategy for getting 3 million views? And I'm like, you want, you have like how much time do you have? Because that's literally the coaching program that I just opened and we're going to do that for four weeks. So how much time do you have? We want it in six minutes. The point is your biggest bang for your buck. What can you do for your biggest bang for your buck? And the best practices are like you said, if you're looking for a referral partner, business is driven by relationships. At the end of the day, we're more likely to buy a house from somebody we know. We're more likely to trust our agent who tells us to work with. I mean, hands down when I find somebody and I've bought plenty of houses and moved plenty of times myself, if somebody legit that I trust, shout somebody else out, done that relationship's built, I'll go with that loan officer. I will go with that contact. And so as you go on LinkedIn, I always tell people, start with who you know, like why are you trying to build from scratch with fresh people that you don't even know? Why don't you love on the people you already know? Why don't you sit down and honor the relationships you've already built? Even if you only have 80 connections, 80 connections, somebody reminded me of this the other day. What if you invited all 80 of those connections to your house? And what if they were all high quality connections? Would your business be successful? If you had all 80 connections come over your house, have a great meeting with you and then leave. Then I was like, uh, yeah. Right. So similar concept is just being done on LinkedIn. Yeah. LinkedIn is the biggest 24 seven networking party and it is again, I have to remind myself all the time, stay engaged with your current connections. We try to make new ones and new ones are good, but also when you make new ones, the best way to make new ones, the best way to make new, awesome, amazing connections like we connected because we had a specific person in common, and it's, it was a warm connection. It was, well, it was hot. It was like, all right, let's get on a call. I don't really want to jump on calls anymore with just strangers. Who's got time? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know you from anything. You could be some, I just don't know. All right. So let me, so I'm going to be cognizant of time and I'm going to try and do this ship to get as much out of you as I can in like the last last eight minutes. Okay. So knowing that, then how should I'm going to take my audience listeners? I'm going to stay loyal to you. How should mortgage loan originators be reaching out to realtors, for example, and let me kind of tee this up because I see you already here at all the time of the spam messages and all that kind of stuff. So how would somebody engage in, in, you know, with somebody they don't know on LinkedIn? Number one way, if that real estate agent is active in the community, they're a part of a similar group as you're a part of. If they are in a similar, I don't know, like a local networking group. If they're, if they're on a podcast, if they're, if they have a book, if they have anything, anything you can connect or if they have a post, a recent article, a recent newsletter, please say, I got your recent newsletter. I read that tip about making sure XYZ on your home is secure. I love that tip. Thank you for connecting and that's it. Love on them. Make them have some point of reference. And I tell people this all the time, if you're connecting with people and you really, really, really want to have a relationship with that person and you don't want it to just be copy and paste, you've got to say something personal. Or you can go to their profile and say, I see that you highlighted XYZ. I'm also a graduate of this program or I'm also, I went to the university of whatever. Any little thing like that draws you one thread and it makes the person on the other end with a line, feel like you paid attention to them. So you're finding commonalities? Yep. I mean, I'll go all in. I will respond to people who say, I heard you on this podcast. I mean, I'm not perfect. I cry because they have spent time letting me know. Okay. So I get that. I think conceptually everybody gets that right is so find those things of mutual interest or start commenting like we talked about at the start of this podcast is that's one of the biggest ways to drive engagement is sincere, relevant comments. Then give us a quick, you know, 30 second, if you can, minute long coaching tip on too many people trying to rush from first date to getting married. What is that kind of journey we should kind of nurture before we go for the ask, if you will? The bigger the relationship that you want to grow, if you want to get to a hundred thousand dollar relationship, if you want to get to a million dollar relationship with somebody, that's going to be a longer play. And you're going to have to start slower. So same thing with marriage granted most people do not normally get married in a couple months. Some people do, but let's just admit, most people, it's a longer play because it's supposed to be a lifetime. So at the end of the day, or at least you, whatever, you know what I'm talking about. Okay, getting off the marriage thing and dating the point is we can relate to that analogy so much because when you're building relationships, so many people want to just say, hey, we're connected now. Let's jump on a call. And I'm like, no, I will jump on a call when we've built something and building from thank you for connecting. That's not enough. The coolest part about LinkedIn, and I tell people, so somebody asked me today, they put out an offer on the internet, I saw it go up, I responded to it. And it was a solid ask and she had so many responses, it overwhelmed her. And they were all positive responses like, yes, I want to work with you. Yes, I want to work with you. And I sat with her this morning in person, we did coffee and she was like, how do I work through that? And she said, you really have to dial down into maybe four or five that from your gut instinct, you can just tell that they're the right vibe and the right person to build a bigger relationship with. And that's why I remind people, why are you going for the thousand? I think you're better off having five great phone calls and connections each week than you are trying to do 100. Yeah, I agree, meaningful, meaningful. So again, it comes back to for me, what comes to mind is relational versus transactional. Yeah. And one thing that I realize that people don't know about LinkedIn, you can do voice memos. You and I have been doing those. That's awesome. And I feel like that will set you apart, 1000%. Yeah. And that's a great tip. Nugget that everybody, if you haven't picked up on that, and actually, Judy, I think was because of you that I realized there was voice memos that you could do, which I pretty much tried to send as many people as I can to voice memo. I mean, I will time block and instead of me having some copy and paste thing, yes, I'm going to LinkedIn right now so I can instruct people on how I'm going to you're going to do a voice memo. It's actually quite easy. Let's just see here. I could like if I click on somebody's name on my podcast, I actually do boy, I do a couple games on my podcast and I do a voice message roulette where we just play a random voice message. Are you serious? It's a fun podcast game. That is a great idea. You just put it in a show. It was the first time it was the second podcast I put up and I was like, let's do voice message roulette. I love that. Okay. I'm going to go listen to your podcast. But real, real quick. So people, it's all about standing out and getting noticed and this is why we talked about commenting. We're going to stand out, get noticed and if you're really trying to build true engagement and relationships, the voice message is going to be holy crap. People get a voice message. It's just like like Chelsea, right? She shared well on Facebook, send people a video comment instead of just the text comment because that's going to stand out. Same thing with this. When you're going to click and leave somebody a message, a typical message, you'll see that little microphone icon. I love the video watchers can see that but it's on the bottom right. You hit the icon and then is there a limit on the time? It's one minute. I do say to people, I have a tendency of leaving a lot of voice memos once you get to know me and your friends with me be prepared because if I really am like, if we're in a relationship and we have a lot of things to talk about, I'm going to be like, voice memo all over you. But basically just do one if you're just getting to know somebody. Don't be like that scene out of swingers where he calls like 17 times. No, nobody needs thousands of voice memos unless they're my best friend. There you go. That's awesome. All right. I have to get this question in just because I'm really curious. I think I know your answer but I have to ask it. So recently I talked to somebody the other day who was telling me about a service they have which automatically sends messages to people on LinkedIn that is basically the premise of, hey, great to connect with you. Got some ideas I think might help your business and this is specific in my industry and they're getting appointments out of it, right? They're scheduling actual face-to-face appointments and I was curious what you're taking on that would be. I guess it's just like I said, it depends on your business, your agency. I don't do automated. I think are they, like you said, are they automating? Is it some automated software? It's automated but it's still personalized first name but that's I think probably the extent to pretty much the degree of the personalization. I mean, again, it just depends on how big the play is. If you're talking to somebody and it's potentially millions of dollars per year that you could be sitting on if you create a relationship with that person, how you going to automate that? I almost hurt a relationship because I try to outsource some of my direct messages and I mean, this is a good connection. I mean, really, really good connection that, I mean, yeah, no way you want to mess with that connection. He responded back and said, that was an automated message, like, that's not cool and I replied back and I was like, yep, sorry, it was an accident, my, yeah, it just, it didn't work out. Well, I think that might take away from your response is that are you going for quality or quantity? Yes. And that's okay if some businesses are quantity, but I think too many businesses jumped to quantity too fast. If your user experience is high end, once they get that automated message, that's different. If you're able to do a high quality, high end user experience that funnels them in in a way that you have proven that doesn't burn them out, that makes them stay connected. I personally, if I get too many automated messages, I will disconnect and unfollow. I hate all too much. Ultimately can't you, I mean, as you can ultimately tell, don't you think, really? You even told me recently that wasn't an automated message because I got back and forth with them. And I, I just, it's just tough. If I've got to scroll on your first message, that's too much. That sounds rude, but it's too much. It's too much most of the time about you and each person doesn't really want a random stranger in their inbox just talking about themselves. It's not what I woke up this morning to find in my inbox. That's not why we're on social media. You're going to go further in your business if you actually don't talk about yourself. Right. Love it, love it. Okay. Cool. So we've got to kind of wrap it up here. I never wanted to end. I know. Right. It's awesome. Fox rocks. If you trademarked that yet or what? No. I mean, I don't, it's my name. So. I'm just looking at all the content is like, yeah, there's so many other questions I would want to ask you about, you know, profile covers and optimizing that. I forgot to mention with automation, there's actually the ability to potentially get kicked off the platform. And I have actually seen those messages from clients. They really have. It does happen where you get kicked out. Really? Mm-hmm. I mean, the automation is set up specifically. I'm sorry, I have to say this, but I'm like, you are risking things by doing automation too. And if I don't say that, I feel like I'm doing a disservice to people that they are taking on a risk. Amen to that. I mean, yeah, can you afford to lose, right? That this channel of potential, like you said, and literally for our people are my loan officers, right? If they do it the right way, those real estate agent relationships are six figure opportunities for them. You know, so don't screw that up. You can't outsource relationships. Well, and you can have a team helping you. So if you do have somebody or some way of automating a list that you need to get back to, to like curate and say, these are your top 10 responses you need to get back to ASAP. These are the next ones. These are the next ones. If you can start to create a pattern for that, there's nothing wrong with that. And you can create, you can somewhat outsource that to people who understand how to do it. No, you can't just create and you would risk your entire ability to function on the platform. I've seen the shutdown messages I really have. It's not a rumor. Well, yeah, no, no, it's happened on other platforms too. So we know it. Yeah. And that makes me think about the posting of content. That's a whole different conversation in terms of scheduling your content. That's different than messaging somebody because that's like a personal interaction. And you really, I think, want to be close to that, the tone of it and all that jazz. And I'm all about the more warm hot leads I can create, the better I can run my business. My entire business can run on 10 hot leads per week if that makes, you know, just throwing that number out. I always land on 10. I don't know. I got a thing with it or something. And that's the magic number. I guess the Fox rocks 10. It's like, the Fox rocks at 10. Love it. All right. 10xing everything. Maybe it's too much green card on or something. Yeah, you did on the grand card on. I got the book. You do really? That's awesome. Okay. So another people who want to connect with you in a, in a probably more in depth way. Tell us, I know you mentioned the upcoming kind of group coaching thing you're doing. Tell us about that real briefly and how people can learn more. So I have, I opened up one spot in a signature founding members group coaching. So I'm teaching people how to be on LinkedIn. I'm not teaching LinkedIn groups, like some people have gotten that confused. I am going to talk about the group experience. And I am going to open up a LinkedIn group for us to play in and be in. But again, this is because it is launching. It is the founding members I want to really honor that. And it's just so exciting. So I'm offering it at a founding members price. So the next round will be more expensive, just FYI, because it is offered at the first round. Yes. And I opened up 20 spots and 10 are full. And it's still open. I mean, granted, I don't know when this goes live, but it is going to be, I'm going to keep putting it out. I'm not sure again, what schedule because I'm doing it for the first time, but I want to continue to put this out into the world and I'm going to record all the content. So it will have a place to live on and be available. Awesome. And how do people learn more? Where do they go? J-U-D-I-F-O-X dot com. And of course, you can always find me on LinkedIn. I would hope so, right? And I use the Fox emoji on LinkedIn. Yes. So literally if you see J-U-D-I-F-O-X, you'll see the Fox emoji and that will be me. Absolutely. And by the way, that's very eye catching helps you stand out. Yes. And I was just telling you, I'm going to social media marketing world and I bought Fox ears to wear because it is a huge marketing conference and I just want to quickly be able to be like, find the person with the Fox ears. I love that. I mean, I've already got so many ideas from you just from our conversations before and now. And of course, I'll be there as well and we're going to get some pictures with you as Fox ears. Okay. Fox swag to hand out. I need to get some like design and t-shirts and I just love foxes. Who doesn't? Orientaltrading.com. Perhaps get some little mini foxes in here. Really? Check it out. Check it out. It's got to come from China though. So it might not be long enough to shake it. Got it. Anyway, all right. Listeners, we, first of all, Judy, thank you. Appreciate you very, very much. And so hopefully we'll have you back on maybe later on and we'll take a deeper dive on one aspect. Yeah. That would be great. Okay. Cool. And then listeners, as always, we appreciate you every week for tuning in. If you're new here, appreciate you being here. And if you've been here a while, you know what you could do. Leave us a review right there where you listen to the podcast because that helps us reach more people. So we will see you on the next one. Everybody. Thanks for tuning in and bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio, one more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchase loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. 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