Ep #124: How to Get 75% of Your Total Closed Loans from Past Clients

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Coghill is a must-read. This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute. We're number one source for truth in mortgage marketing. Hey, listeners. What's up? It's Jeff Zimper. Once again, your humble host. Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio. Appreciate you being here. All right. So let's get started with some basic housekeeping, if you will. I want to give a shout out as we're trying to do this as a regular practice. Let's shout out to those that are leaving us reviews on the podcast and you can do that wherever you get your podcast at. But I wanted to give a shout out to Andrew C. Andrew C. Another great show from Jeff. You always provide great guests and drill down with your questioning to get real usable information that I can implement into my mortgage business. Thanks. Keep the great podcast going. Andrew C. Thanks to you, man. If you're listening, hit me up, private message me. We'll get you a podcast t-shirt, little mortgage marketing radio love. Just hit me up with your address and your shirt size on Facebook message there if you want or in the group itself on Facebook, the mortgage marketing radio podcast. And we will send you the love. Appreciate you leaving the reviews. And if you're listening to this haven't yet left a review, that's your chance. You know, we're to do it. iTunes, did cheer, Spotify, wherever you're getting your podcast at. I love to hear your comments and feedback on the show. Speaking of that, I wanted to give a shout out to some of those folks that I hung out with at the mortgage. The mastermind summit in Vegas just this past week. It was great to connect with other fellow mortgage marketing pro members. So Michelle, Jill and Rob, Liz and Rob. Hey guys, I appreciate you a lot. It was so great to hang out with you there in person and connect. And that's the beauty of in person you're never going to replace in person. I just appreciate the connection, the relationship. You know, and I get I get a lot out of the time that we got to spend together there in person. So just wanted to say again, thanks a lot for making time to grab lunch together and allow us to all connect. We're all doing great things. And let's keep that connection going live in the community or private Facebook group. Making of not replacing in person. Hey, this episode is brought to you as always by the mortgage marketing pro membership. What is that? Well, you just heard me talk about some of our actual members getting together locally in person. And that's what we can do and do do when we can. However, aside from that, what we're doing is helping you the loan officer get real estate agent relationships and referrals. And we do that a number of ways the primary way, of course, is by equipping you to build your local personal brand hyper local in your local community with real estate agents attracting them out to come see you and your agent classes. That's right. A hot agent class every single month delivered to you turnkey PowerPoint speaker knows handouts video customized flyer done for you all in a snap. As well as weekly group coaching calls. And if that wasn't enough, hey, we're not only are we helping you get in front of real estate agents. We're helping you become a modern originator through self-paced courses on social media. We got brand new ones on Instagram being loaded in there as you're listening to this. We've got YouTube. We got Facebook ads. We got Facebook business page. We you name it. We got it to help you become a modern originator. Get to the customer first and build your personal brand online and off. As a matter of fact, a quick shout out to one of our pro members who just left this comment in our private group Nick Fendig. What's up, man? Nick says that has this little share in our Facebook group here says too cool not to share Nick was doing the Alexa class. By the way, that's one of the classes we have for real estate agents. How agents can get started with Alexa flash prefix. So Nick was up morning his class posted it all over Facebook as we help them do that. An agent saw his class said she couldn't make it but super bummed. But what Nick did because he's smart. He said, hey, sorry, you can't make the class. How about we grab a one on one? Boom. Now he's got a meeting set with an agent. He's never met before. She reached out to him furthermore, right? Nick did the class. The title rep he's partnered with is introducing him to a coach within a real estate office who wants Nick to come do the class in the local real estate office just from hearing about this class. Folks, that's the power. The ripple effect, the impact of building a personal brand, right of creating a persona for yourself of adding value and being known for something more than just a place to get alone. Right? That's relevant and important. But how do you stand up apart from the rest? How do you rise above the noise? You need something unique and different. Maybe the mortgage marketing institute pro membership is it for you. Want to learn more? Go check it out. Posted a short video. You can watch everything right there. Mortgagemarketing.pro. Go get your deeds and if you got any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly. Let's get into this week's episode really excited to bring my special guest on Trevor Hammond. Trevor is what I would call an elite mortgage professional. And why do I say that? Well, let me give you a couple examples here. Trevor's been on a journey to change his business to better suit his life. And for him to, you know, not be a slave to the business. So Trevor's done some incredible things we're going to talk about on the podcast, but which is here's what's notable. Last year Trevor enjoyed 155 days off. Yes, completely unplugged. No emails, no phone calls and did this while growing one of the largest branches in the country for sear of the civic mortgage. While still raging it was just making personal loans and taking on regional responsibilities for Oregon and Washington. All of that only came about because of his commitment to having like minded professionals, real estate partners, having high trust, engaging conversations and customer process that allowed him to grow his business. Organically, if you will, so what do I mean? So let's talk about this. Here's what Trevor and I talk about Trevor's got this incredible processes that I'll just quickly tease you on a couple of these will get into the podcast, the home buyer retrieval program, the home buyer retention program. We're talking about fiscal literacy. We're talking about how to have high trust level conversations with clients with referral partners that accelerate the process that accelerate the trust that convert more clients and referral partners to trust you and bottom line build your business largely based on referrals. So Trevor's also a go getter right he's done some interesting things in terms of being an author. He's also written a book a couple of books actually he's a co author of borrow smart retire rich he's a certified mortgage advisor and a founding member contributor to the national institute of financial education. And he is leading the way with helping originators become an elite mortgage professional and I would dare say that that comes from having right the right types of highly intentional yes dialogue and script driven not robotic script driven but really connecting types of scripting and dialogue with his clients and referral partners. And you'll hear exactly what those are on this podcast and how he converses with clients and referral partners to differentiate himself to build trust to take people off the street to reduce ray chopping and to earn the bulk of business of his key referral partners going deep versus going wide. So I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation with Trevor great education for me on building a true right referral based high trust high converting mortgage practice that still leaves you a life. So let's do it let's get into this weeks show Trevor Hammond welcome to the show thank you thank you Jeff I'd be here. Thank you for being here on short notice man absolutely. So I caught you the other day I think it was about two days ago you were in the high trust sales academy if that's correct name for it high trust group with Todd Duncan right and I saw you doing a session. You're covering a lot of topics but I wanted to and I appreciate your willingness to share and you have that abundance mindset so that's great I wanted to bring you on with my audience and perhaps talk through some of those concepts you talked about but before we do get into that real quick tell the listeners a little bit about Trevor. I think you've been in the business and why do you love this well I always love the business side that's what makes me love it now and be more valuable to everybody I coach and supported my own branch I'm in Portland Oregon and 21 years in the business and you know like everybody you know you go through those all the time I've been in a lot of ways that's right I've invested in a lot of coaching for myself and I still do you know I sometimes I add it up when my wife hates to hear it sometimes but I've got an excess of 30 it could be up to 40 grand a year in personal development. I've got a lot of coaches, group coaches, you back into entrepreneurial coaching. No things I learned over the years was when you're hating the job when you're hating the business when you're getting burnt out it's usually if you really break it down it's just because you're spending too much time on activities you can't stand doing. Right simple fact so tasting conditions really for me I just said well then the rest of my career is how do I gradually peel all that stuff away and just focus on the two or three things I'd love to do and my things I love to do are what makes me the most money too so I get better at it so that's basically that also ties into now what I want to bring to mortgage professionals too. What are those things you love to do that make you the most money face time with clients right sitting across the table from a client or next to a client and get and just teaching them things. That they haven't learned before right about real estate finance perhaps or or have a better manager cash flow get out of debt. And seeing that light bulb gone right I think most good mortgage professionals love that component of their business problem is that's 20% of their day typically right going out to coffee meeting with like minded real estate professionals. Whether you love them or don't they're they're very important to our business as mortgage professionals but live people don't position that right or they they work with wrong people and those to be set up as vendors instead of strategic partners so. Be clear on who you want to work with only spend time with those and then get really really good at adding value and those that's fun time right yeah right and then coaching. For me I mean I can sit there yesterday I had I had seven back-to-backs all day starting with a two-hour financial advisor presentation and really it's just coaching right I'm coaching financial planners and mortgage professionals on how to work together on one coaching meeting with all my my mortgage advisors. I got those days with more energy than I start right and so whatever that is for a loan officer you know i.e. mortgage advisor I don't like the terms of officers typically but figure that out and then gradually whether tiring assistance or just firing the wrong clients or just not doing things just spend the next 10-20 years just figuring that out and you'll be happy to love the job. I want to go back to something you said what you love to do what that makes you the most money is you know consulting with clients educating them with clients are educating clients clearly have the heart of a teacher I'm curious because you know you're very well dialed into different styles and ways of doing business out there and I'm curious if that style of business and I'm a big believer in that as well is if you can get face time with the clients all the better your conversion goes up right trust goes up all that stuff. Have you found in the last few years that there's been additional resistance to that or what have you found in trying to get people face to face. Like the consumer home. Yes but I think we're shifting back right you know one of the phrases I say a lot nowadays is do what Amazon mortgage won't be able to do. You know do what quickens not doing go where they're going do what they're not doing right this is this is a lot of conversations with Todd Duncan you know in mentor of mine. And it's getting back to that it's the same as like drip marketing campaigns I'm my team off that stuff I think everybody has him so we run in one way we got to run a different way. And it's just going well sit back right grab a grab your favorite beverage and go what would the experience needs to be like for someone to want to eagerly drive into your office to see you. That's the real question what would be valuable and how do you set it up properly and build build your stuff up to be in demand versus on demand. It's for them to want to get a babysitter or leave work early and fight traffic because the experience with you is going to be that greater that valuable. And when people go well you know they're busy and I got zoom and all this stuff yeah you can do that but you we all can agree that your conversion rates always a little bit better if that a lot better face to face sure. And we can also agree that those same people that don't want to drive in to see you do make time to go get their hair done every single month. They're there about to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars that they only do it a few times over the course of their entire life. So if you just can believe that and talk yourself into how important this is because I think some people don't believe it's that important to have people come meet with them. To me it is you got to come in everything else got to be shut away. You can't have your phone ringing off the hook you can't be talking to all your work we got to put stuff up on the big screen and we got to map out your financial plan around. Financing the biggest asset of your life I mean it's that importance and we don't do this right it's putting you on a trajectory that never get where you want to be financially so. It's just believing that and then realize it's important and then it will come out when you're right when you're having that first discovery call with a new client. Yeah either you do or you don't what what if they still don't want to well. And you can you can say well then that's not how we operate best of luck you know working online with somebody or you can say you know okay you know i'll do zoom you know as long as the face time right right. I like that approach is that some of the dialogue in you use or at least the positioning right when it comes to helping to convince them the importance of this meeting absolutely again this is coaching had always on but. I'm a big stickler of empowering yourself you know it's just so easy to blame. A real estate agent that you're trying to work with and who only hand out three cards. That you're trying to get to hand out one card somebody who's not willing to come in and see or somebody who's still just. Commoditying you back to whether or not you can you can match somebody else's rate it's not their fault it's our fault to sell them on the fact that that's not the way to do this. And when you can when you can look at the mirror and say that to yourself it kind of it empowers you again to go all right how I just got to get better I get better at creating. Why this is so important and it's you know it's having a lot of videos you know I got somebody that reached out to me last week and it was I had met him a couple months ago says i've watched all your videos i want you to do my mortgage. It's a one point you know you build a 1.4 million dollar house once about an hour mortgage and I'd met him one time face to face just through a friend having a beer and then. Out of the blue he calls me a couple of minutes later says i want you to do my mortgage literally just said that i said no usually hear that you know that adamant yeah. Watch my videos so he'd been kind of set up that while they're different. If you different and I agree with what they believe right i believe what they believe that's that's a lot of work to discipline but if you're committed to it then people will come see you. All right so tell me then about your process your you know pre meeting process or in some wondering with that guy it makes me i think do you intentionally try and direct people through a. Journey that allows them to engage your content prior to meeting you I mean I know that happens sometimes organically right but is there. The big question is is give me give us a sense of your prospect to client journey just a high level yeah it's always evolving you know yeah. If I say the word humility is important i'm i'll be the first one. It's never perfect but i'm always i think what my my advisers have found is they've got somebody while they're doing business and working on today clients. Now trying to get partners i'm sitting back some down band of clothes door going how do we continue to make it better and better better. Protect ourselves from the future changes to our industry and again if we are all our group is all about the high trust approach relationship referral approach. The process right now is really get a really good hand off right introduction from whether it's your client or database however it comes in. Get what we call a discovery call and sometimes people you know if they're big teams they try to hand that off to an assistant and they just go into. In an application first i think we're back in the world like you've got you've got to have a phone call first you've got to be on the phone with those people because that's your chance to that's your first sale is that first 15 to 30 minute phone call right then from there until the consultation everything else i believe can be delegated or. Or automated right but get really really good at that that first conversation ask them questions they they aren't used to being asked and get so good at that that. They they hear things from you that creates new thought and they're not even asked you about interest rate so that's the first phase is just helping a lot of officers get really really good at that first conversation. Then some of them it's as they're going through that they just finish the application while they're on phone. Because a lot of those questions are you know how long you think you might be now it's okay where do you work and you we weave those into those really those power statements pattern interrupt statements. Then we want to get a face to face consultation as we're talking about. And if you do that first call right you're setting the stage where you're going to come in we're going to sit down put the numbers up on the big screen we're going to look at option A which is what you're telling me right you just sold that house and got a couple hundred thousand dollars from sale. You're telling me you want to put all down great we're going to show you how to do that and then we'll probably have two or three other scenarios we might want to put side by side because it's. It's not just about how to get the lowest interest rate right it's about what's the lowest cost of owning a home over time right minimizing your taxes optimizing your ability to save and when you get good of those phrases and those come out that first call. Then they start to see they start to realize okay there's more to it than just come in and seeing what the fees and rates are right you know so that it's that then get the alone application. Leverage automation right day one certainty on everybody minimize the paperwork you need to get for people and make some people are still still aren't doing that to its fullest yet. And for consultation map out the strategy get them pre approved then stay in front of them while they're out shopping for house. How do you explain how you do that. Add value and this is a constant work in progress but not to offend any of us because I I am a you know I grew up as a sales person right we're all selling something we're selling ourselves you're selling us over quick in or. Sure the bank relationship already in place but if you look at disc test or colby pro colby profile KOLBE that I've got all these personality profiles so speak. I suck it follow up people do most of people do right right most sales people do so just only be open to that and either automate the stay in touch process or hire somebody that's better than you at follow up is the fortunes in the follow up. I didn't is talking to me you know 15 16 years ago if you don't follow up they won't follow through. But everybody complains that man I did so much for them they came in they loved us they loved everything they never asked about rate too much later the end of the contract and guess what. I just got a rate quote from my bank or my real realtor said talk to couple of people they knew can you send me over a quote. Like everything you did two months ago so what I'm really working on now is how do you create an experience that just goes from that first point contact through till contract. And so I think I share that some of the some of my video I did and I trust today last week or whatever that was Wednesday. Real estate report card right if we're going to throw out you can use. We leverage the crud out of real estate report card from mbs highway it shows that we have credibility it shows that we have our finger on the post the market and it comes out every month. So right there you have one tool that's very inexpensive that you can send out to people while they're out shopping. And then it's you know it's phone calls it's a it's a surprise gift right in the mail all those things once they're in contract. If they have kids you send out a like I think it's called we're moving baronstein bears book. You know I mean because it's all about the kids. Well I want to pause there when I make sure everybody heard that idea that's a brilliant idea yeah you know I got it from somebody somebody is more brilliant than me always. You know R&D rip off and duplicate right. It's it's baronstein bears and I think it's called we're moving or it's moving day who my mortgage advisors have stacks of them in their office. Yeah and as soon as you get word that they got a contract you send that book out and they love it. It's just a cool for little kids it's it's a big deal. I love that I love that let's let's for a second clarify for those who don't have mbs highway that is a bear it is awesome tool I'm looking at it right here but. Give everybody a quick definition of real estate report card what that is it's one of many tools and bear it keeps adding things to the to the service so all my team has it. It's a one page PDF you can pull it up by county I think by city anywhere in the country right every month and you can actually even customize so we and we might get I don't know if we're going to get into this today but we use it for our annual review process as well same tool. Can customize it based on what home value is your historical appreciation for that area one year and five year projected appreciations. Great to see if somebody's kicking tires or not sure if they should move from renting to owning see how much money that that 400 600,000 house could be worth five years from now right you should and you show realtors this. Like wow yeah I want my clients seen this on a regular basis yeah it's a shareable document. Yeah yeah yeah we don't even do that yet it's literally we download as a pdf we attach it to emails then and it shows the affordability. Really honest with clients and show them that you've got their misinterest in mind it tracks affordability for that area as well. And as we all know in the industry once it becomes more affordable to rent than to own we better have a lot of money stocked away in the bank right times. Right and and so we point that out right because you're wanting to be an advisor versus a loan officer or a salesperson or somebody just trying to sell alone. Yeah one of those those really transparent parts of that tool that we point out because right now it's great it's above 100 which means as affordable given meeting income meeting house price 20% down. Yeah yeah it's a great tool I'll put a link in the show notes to MBS highway people who check that out. I've been using yeah we'll put an affiliate link for you. That's awesome all right so I wanted to talk about one thing though because. Automating the process kind of after that in person client meeting let's just say you got that done and obviously I want to clarify. Earlier right we talked about removing the automation so I'm wondering if you're doing some things differently nowadays right to still build that fence around your client. Without appearing to be automated video of these personal one off videos of these bomb on videos where are they bomb on yep. So you know these are if anybody asked me what tools they needed it's they need some kind of presentation tool right we use borrow smart analysis. Sorry Dave. Pretty pretty average but I love mortgage coach. If borrow smart analysis ever goes out I'm all over mortgage coach and all my team would be using it like crazy again. But you need one of those tools I don't care which one we need a presentation tool you need bomb bomb. And you need MBS highway those are three tools and then I sit back and I go how could we leverage this in like 50 different ways. Sure you wanted a TBD kind of stay in touch campaign. You take the real estate report card you put it up on your screen and then you just send out a PDF for real email note. Do a two minute video of you going through and highlighting the key takeaways of the real estate report card. You're doing that to reinforce their smart decision to be purchasing and that also reinforces you are an advisor. Yep. Yeah and the only person they should ever work with. You know because you have to resell yourself constantly and I think that's where a lot of mortgage professionals. They lose sight of that a lot of times we might hit a home run right and those people are just falling over sideways. They're just so grateful to God above that they met you and yeah. There's rainbows over you and all that and that never fades but it fades fast in this world. Well see I want to highlight this too because this is what I like about you and the high trust style of selling and you talked about this in your client process kind of your intake process. I'll call it as you said give them a reason given that compelling reason to want to come in to see you. Which is a brilliant smart point and but then secondly everything we're talking about what made me think of is loyalty. Here are so many people complain about loyalty and that loyalty is fading. Well the question is why and goes back to what you said I think is like give them a reason to be loyal. Most people aren't giving them a compelling reason to stick. Yeah back to you know we both have followed Todd Duncan a lot of his teachings. He recorded something for our coaching group is a private video and but one of the things he said that just like I loved and I will never get you said. Let's talk about this pricing compression. It goes the price compression has simply shown us how poorly prepared loan officers are around the country in providing unique value. Yeah it shows me. Sure enough. That was just a band. He just called it right out you know we can go chase different structures rather banking versus broken all that we know that conversations. One way to do life. Right. So many ways right to do run your business. There's only one flavor of ice cream. Exactly and anybody is like my flavor is wrong. That's not my style is right tell try to. Don't get all worked up. But it's it's more about how do we increase our value constantly. People don't spend enough time figuring that out. You know what I call my own advisors out on the stuff a lot you know. You got to go in it and we call law of the dress rehearsal I trust coaching you know you've got to practice your lines. Yes. No I can't tell you I I I I end up on a slide and I've said it for over 15 years now. You borrow or finance your home has far reaching impact on virtually every other aspect of your personal finances. Including your ability to save. Right pay off debt or retire someday when you want to how you want. Hmm. I've said that a bazillion times in a and that will come out in every first phone conversation. Yeah with somebody because I believe it. It's true. If you put all your money down versus half down that impacts everything everything else. Yeah and they try to compartmentalize things so I bring up that those are the mistakes people often make. You not make those mistakes because they're going well I was about to compartmentalize and commoditize the heck out of this guy. Apparently that's not what I'm supposed to do. Watch the wife and the husband look at each other like I was about to just jump on him but no go. And that's that's preparation right. Know that obstacle is going to come up and and people are spending time preparing to overcome that obstacle. Well it's funny and that's what I give a lot of respect to you and Todd right and those and those that he's training. I remember he has this famous saying you know it well it's like you know when people moan and complain about scripting and he's like well you're already scripting you just aren't any good. You have systems they just suck. Yeah yeah we all we all have scripts we're following a script. Yeah they're just. But I want to leave I want to leave it off on this point that we're getting something else is that. And I think more important today than ever because of the pressures on us from all the various angles we've got is you've got to be more intentional in architecting that client experience than ever before. It's always been important but it's now even heightened and it's like look what kind of like you said what kind of business do you want to have right do you want to have that. High trust high referral awesome question or do you want to have a transactional business because that's another option now and if that's you all right cool just know where you stand you know. Yeah it's you know I've got a correct right here and I can walk down the streets of Starbucks right. I get coffee the way and people of you Starbucks as examples I need to reuse it but it's kind of the same idea you just choose your path. Sure I don't fault anybody on their path I just sit back a lot of times and I look at it from a 30,000 view and say. I could go sell a lower rate and I might pick up a couple deals. But every single market every single place in the country there is somebody with a higher rate. The more business than you and there is a better rate than you doing less business than you. So you can just step back and agree with that fact then it's not the rate. It isn't the rate the rate needs to be somewhat in the vicinity but people don't know what the best rate is. And so scripting also is asking the question how will you know if you get the best rate. Actually one of my mortgage advisors used that last week and I don't know. That's a pattern interrupt. Yes. You know they're going to ask you for the rate that's all they know to ask and that's okay because that's how they've been trained that's how online rocket mortgage commercials train them. So you can't expect them not to ask that questions. You just need to be prepared for that question. So I know we probably talk about it too much but. Other on providing a great experience because if you provide a great experience right the better the experience the less the price tends to matter. I think one other point on that unscripting is questions whoever's asking the questions is in control. When you think about architecting yourself scripting process think about really relevant intentional like you said pattern interrupt thought provoking questions. Absolutely. That gives you back control then you can shift the conversation away from price. Yeah I love it. What's the most important thing about getting the lowest rate to you? First is trying to validate your rate right or convince them that your rates okay or bashing the potential competition just. And what you're going to start doing is they'll say well I want the lowest payment. Great you know if we can get you the lowest payment what's the most important thing about that. Well you know I can I can take some of the money and pass some of this debt or you create if you could if we could figure all that out and pay off that debt. What would that do for you man I can finally start by you know kids 529 plan for college. Right now you're starting to get into that core value conversation right. And they're also the everything starting to click that okay I see it's not just about the rate it's about I'm trying to figure out how to buy this house and stay for college at the same time. Yeah and suddenly doesn't always happen but suddenly if you're if you're a strategic advisor. And there the same person was saying I want to put all 200 grand down on my house because I want the lowest payment and that will keep get me the lowest interest rate. You could say you know if we just put 20% down avoid mortgage insurance so that you said that's a bad thing. You make plenty of money you can afford that we take 10 grand and get rid of this credit card that you've been shipping away after a couple years. And we still have about 85,000 what if you lump some funding a college plan for your kids and we looked at what that did for you so you have to budget anymore. Now you're going to be an eighth maybe a quarter higher right you know low level price adjustments whatever. But now they're seeing you they start to like and you don't have the answer but that could come out on a first discovery call because it's it's creating new thought. I had thought about that now there's maybe another reason to come in and let's just look at it at the end of it we might I might I might tell you yes put it all down. But that might not be getting you where you want to be the easiest right the fastest the safest way possible and naturally my job. I just add value to you over the next 30 to 45 days my job is to add value to you and I'll be create wealth over the next 30 years of owning houses. So yeah come on in right. So house Tuesday or Thursday at three. That's awesome all right man very good stuff very good scripting there let's let's real quickly I'm going to take a look at my notes here from our when I was observing you before. This is number of directions I could go here kind of like you let's do this we've talked about upfront right let's talk about post close everybody gets and knows the annual view but you've got something that's much more I think detailed and structured so explain to us kind of your process for post close what that looks like to you know I mean how about this I know you're getting what one to three loans out of every clothes client that's kind of the goal right. So this is what we're building right now so open up the curtains right and just working on because to me this is the biggest opportunity I've got my whole group here my group here in Portland focused on this. So first getting clear on what the goal is the goal for me is a minimum of 50% of our clothes loans come from our database. So that's either I hate the word past clients we're trying to try and even get rid of that term in our world because if you're managing their their debt for life and you want clients for life we can't can call them past clients and it's such a sitting right. That's either repeat client coming back to you right for future needs. Then directly referring a new client to you right so for example we were at 30 we were just under 31% last year of our funded loans on our team were database through the end of April we were just over 50%. So obviously whenever refinances kick up that's key but you got to be there to capture the refinances right but you better be the one who's in front of that versus. I just got to refine quote from my credit union you know can you beat it right. Go somewhere else so that's my goal my my b-hag my big here at it's just goal is to get us to 75%. If you can really see the value in this thing you'll figure out the half because there's a lot of how does you get to this. But what you do is if we're treating our book of business well just like that we're treating all of our closed clients like a book of business. No different financial advisor does or an insurance agent does we don't have the quote unquote residual income in our business. Our residual income if we do it right is our database right the clients have already bought from us like as they trust us. So we treat that like a book of business and so what we're tracking as a group is our our total liability is under management. People have said over the years you know the mortgage is under management was a phrase you know back in the day people said they do it. People don't do it were squat they just say they do it to get the business they get the loan. I get it but we really want to do it because if we do that well well who are we then creating business to give out to. For reporters exactly. So I'm starting to I'm taking this to the next level right now so not all that's in place. But I'm happy to share what we're working on because. First understand why this is so important in my opinion because that's consumer direct is where things are going and going there for a while. Yeah. This is our version of consumer direct. So looking at a real estate agent is simply somebody who's out there that I'm partnering with who's filling up my book of business. And then once it gets in there what our commitment is becoming now is to be able to say to a real estate agent for every client you refer my way that we close together. My commitment is in the next 12 months turn that into another new referred client to you. And how do they respond to that real estate agents. I mean some drool starts to come out of here and you know now it's they love it they love the ideas for the next part is how do you do that. Most of them actually don't ask that to be honest. I mean they're like oh it's good awesome let's go. You will win you will win partnerships just by them seeing that that's that's where your heart is and that's where your heads at. I mean nobody else is saying that either. No because they're scared to well I don't know if I can really I can really do that. Here's the reverse psychology is on how you know Jeff like if you go out to a meeting and say this is what is going to happen if you work with me. And they say okay cool let's do that. You're going to go back and have to figure it out. You're on the hook. Yeah. And it could be as old school cold turkey as you're making personal phone calls to every client you close asking for referrals. By yourself. But you can expand upon that and. And we've talked before on this a little bit but. A post closed experience. I post closed process. No one post closed system. I'm going I asked the question what would be. A post closed experience so that when a client. Raps up their mortgage. Give us a five store review says that was great. We say it's love hearing that. Wait till you see what we do for you. Going forward from this point. That's a power phrase right. Yeah that's that's like well what do you mean? Yeah are we done right. You're going to have four to five houses. A few refinances in between. Whether we do things right or not or strategic reasons maybe reverse mortgage someday. Possibly 10 financing needs to be put to your life. So you can make and repayment decisions. Every month of your life. Right. So we're going to help you with that. And. You then need to go for added how to do that. So the annual review is like the center piece of that. It's kind of the it's the everything revolves around that. But you've got to send expectations for because most people that try to do annual reviews. You know they don't get a very good response. It still comes across like you're selling a mortgage. So how do you how do you do it differently then so you don't run into that? Well one it has to be explained the way I just said. Yep. And by the way you explaining that upfront early like before the loan closes. That's the part reading way better at now. So first you've got to believe that you want clients for life. You've got to believe that you can provide value to them after they close. You got to believe in. That take right to make sure they always come back to you that it's that importance. So then selling the annual review process starts at the first discovery call. Heck it could start with your referral partners knowing and talking about it. So you just kind of back up the whole process and go. It's now a selling point because life changes things change. We're always going to make sure you're in the best. You're going to have a mortgage and money position to achieve your short long term financial goals. And we're putting a process around that. But if you don't believe it then another risk is going to matter. Well real quickly then just keep my on the time. Give us a high level overview of you you've got various touch points after the loan closes. One of those touch points look like. So here's the ideal. Right now I let the loan officers follow it and do it. And I'm about to hire somebody who's just going to own this entire process so it always happens. Without fail doesn't matter how busy they get in a month or how many leads all of a sudden came up. This stuff's happening. Loan officers should do a post closing review call with the client. The last way what can that be an email now needs to be a phone call like the next world we're going into so they've been doing an email. Now I'm starting to change it to say you need to do a personal phone call. And then we're going to start to get the next 15 minutes. Set the stage for what they're going what they can expect over the next 12 months. And on that call, you're definitely setting the stage for the interview and you're from now. If you can you're going to schedule the next five years of annual reviews right then. Get them on the calendar. I'm sorry. Five years out. Yeah, that's my next phase we're doing that. I know what to expect. Then loan officers can get over the call reluctance that the part of the. Oh, yeah, yeah. The method here right is they don't call because they're going to think I'm just selling them alone and they're at three and a half on a 30 or fixed and. You know, I'm too much late. They closed back in February. Now it's May. They don't call well. If you promised you were going to call more likely to call if you never to sell them alone, but just to make sure they're on the right path. All these little things in my world are getting them confident to just make those calls. Sure. Yeah. So then there's a one month call like first payment costs and people do that. Right. Three months, six months. And then the reminder somewhere in the 11th month or could be the very first day of the 12th month for the interview. That's the system we're putting in place now as we speak. Yeah. And the reality is some of them do that really well on their own and some don't. And I needed to happen as the as the branch manager is the leader. I need to happen on everybody all the time. So you're essentially going to have a concierge to do that for them. Yeah, both closing manager concierge. So I'm going to go over see this process because I hired somebody a couple years ago who helps move our financial planner channel. But now what he's doing is he's he is teeing up and getting out in any review. Email with an equity analysis. Attaching the real estate report card and that's going out to every single client a month of grandavers. Are you using something to prepare the equity analysis? So he goes through and just checks at a minimum Zillow, Trulia, Redfin, just a few free websites. And I know there's obviously this like home bot now. I haven't got into that stuff yet. An email we've crafted, right, saying hey, it's time for you in a review. Here's a rough idea of what your house is worth. We look at where amortization wise what you're probably on their mortgage. And we call that house wealth. Here's your current house wealth. And then the call to action is reach back out to us to schedule a 15 minute phone review. And a little bit why that's so important. And we he copies the loan officer on it's the mortgage advisors copied on it. And we attach the real estate report card. Customized with the price of their house that we looked at. So that we've sent out over 300 of those already this year. Just to clarify, that's the email hard copy. That's email. Yep. That's email. Okay. Nice. And then it comes with a phone call and you kind of do a walk through on that. That's the part in process. So I have my mortgage advisor is actually mailing that out. Mm-hmm. Having great success. He's in a smaller town, smaller community. Yeah. And. That's what I was going to say. I think more impactful. It is. So you know, if you're the loan officer, have to pay for that. You've got to decide is that is there are lie there? And I truly believe there is. I think so. What's the average life lifetime value, right? Of that client. Yeah. And then the job is for the loan officer to follow up on that. Now, the one thing we're going to put in place now that I've got a couple of them already doing. Here's an idea. Anybody can go copy is record a one time video, be up on mom. An evergreen video about the end of your view. And we are going to be getting from whatever on your team is doing this. So it sets the stage. It goes out on the first day of each month. It's all your may people. It's all your gym people video from you. You know, because some of you, if you got a big database of closed clients, you're not going to call them all. No. So if you want to outsource this or delegate it, like if I'm hiring somebody to do this, the loan officer needs to have their face in front of the minimum once a year. For a video, get it out via bomb bomb. One time to note that that group of March people, they put people may people. Then when they get the email version or the mail version, they were expecting it. And you can stay on your video, you know, here's what you need to do when you receive it. Reach back out or click the calendar link or however you want to do it. And here's why it's so important or something's going to come. I like that. That's good, man. I'm sure you're already seeing people who set that up. The booking rate for those annual review calls because you've got that process built in upfront. You're getting a much better response on those and engagement on those. We are, but it's not where I want it. You know, it's all the work and progress. I know it's not where you want it. You're getting 75% of your closed loans from past database, man. That's a really big goal. But I know it's being done out there and I know it's possible. So this is going to continue to evolve. And that's why I need somebody to own it. And if the officer won't make the calls, then I need somebody making those calls. I need to be a, we need clients for life. And that, that just makes the rest of our business easy. And remember back when I said earlier, I want everybody to be able to confidently promise the real estate agent that we're going to get a client for you in the next 12 months, referred by that client. We just closed. So we have to do these things. You know, we close 200 deals this year. You should be able to be excited. Okay, that I, I, with my sister, I have 200 coming in next year. Parenting. Oh, yeah, for sure. Awesome. Well, look, we are approaching the top of the hour. And what I like to do before we close out is brief the tick about two minutes and talk about your book. Why you wrote it and any impact is had on your business. Oh, huge. Yeah, I've got a couple books. Barrow smart, repays smart. I co-authored that with my, where my mentor is taught, Dallanger. Uh-huh. We're back in seven, I want to say. We re-wrote it, shaved down a little bit, updated all the examples. That's that work. I do CE classes around this. Clients get it as gifts. It shows financial advisors that we basically self self published. This one is. Yeah. Then I wrote another one called Mortgage is money in life. I wrote that one out. You're in a half ago. That one's actually on Amazon. And this is more, this is consumer focused. There's two lessons that I've written over the years about mortgages, money and life. So this is something we surprise everybody. Once we get an application in. We see an application command every single person gets this. Oh, with a letter from me for my whole branch. Wow. Talked about it cost of money. But. I'm version, right? And so that is a planned surprise that shows up in the mail no matter who the loan officer is. Their boss is sending out a gift. It's a right, the lobbyist of processes, what you're, you're bankrupt. And that's, that's having some good impacts. Yeah. So obviously that up to your personal brand, you're perceived expert status, all that. Credibility. Yeah. And just wow. I haven't even done business video yet. And I was about to call through the lender. But wow. It's really cool. Right. Whether they read it or not. That's the key without a book or writing a white paper. I mean, everybody should have something. Yeah. Sure. Any guy to download a book. Yeah. Yeah. And when I look, I'm looking at this, what this is, is it's 52 weekly lessons on a new way of looking at owning a home, creating wealth and making smarter decisions with your money. Yeah. It's a great subtitle. By the way, love that. Took me like a year to come up with it. Yeah. Great. Happy writing. How long did it take you to actually put the book together, that particular book? You know, I had written all the content over the last like five to ten years. It still took me a year to just relook through everything. You know, updated all make it generic enough. So somebody could be reading this five years from now. Take any dates out that I had back in the day when I wrote it as a blog or something. So to put together and then, you know, approve the cover and all my jazz. And now. And I it's not for the money, right? It's it's just for positioning. And and gifts and credibility. Oh, 100% of positioning thing for sure. I mean, you know, I teach that in the branding classes. And you know this very well. What's the perception you have of somebody who's a published author? Right. We use the words already expert, knowledgeable, trustworthy, credibility, all that stuff. Yeah. So all that ties back in to what you're talking about. I want them to come in face to face, come up with reasons for them to face to face. Absolutely fantastic. All right. Cool. So I love this conversation, man. And I achieved my goal. So how's that? My goal was to give two goals, really. To give people a different perspective or revisit a perspective they may have heard before about high-trust sales, you know, Fudo's Todd Duncan. And that hold this whole process of relationships and being an advisor, not a transaction based loan officer. That. And you peppered in, I think, like tons of ideas, more ideas per minute than in their podcast out there. So it was awesome, man. I appreciate that. For people who want to reach out to you, I'm going to put all the links and the show notes to your website. But what's the main website you want to send them to? That's it. Barrel smart. We pay smart dot com. We're the consumer websites. You want to see kind of the stuff we're teaching homeowners and home buyers. The cover hamond.com is more of a coaching site. And I just. I've got something I want to teach loan officers anywhere whether they watch it or not. I'm going to put it on the record. I put it up on that site. You'll get there and it says do your loan officer dot com, which is kind of a brandy thing. But that's just where I go. Man, I need to share this with the world of mortgage professionals out there and. Mm hmm. It helps somebody. Yeah. And you also have the YouTube channel. People can watch your videos over there. So everything are going to be in the show notes. So people can easily just click a thumb on their phone and go check that stuff out. So. Thanks. Trevor Helen, man, appreciate your being here on the birthday podcast. Happy birthday, buddy. Thank you, my friend. We'll be in touch with you soon and listeners. Thank you for tuning in. As always, we appreciate you. If you like this episode, let us know. You know how to do it. Leave a little review out on the inner webs. And I will see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to mortgage marketing radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you of that. You're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans. Without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you, agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you. Everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market. Attract and convert agents into referral partners. 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