Ep 146: The Power of a Personal Brand to Grow Your Business

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing. Hey, Lister, what's up? It's Jeff Zimper. Thank you once again for tuning into this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. As always, it's thrilled to have you here and I want to acknowledge and thank those that are taking time out of their day to leave us a review on the interwebs. And so as always, a quick shout out to one of our more recent reviews. And this comes from the handle. This is a long handle left this review on iTunes, LC-1824538. I don't know who that is, but I want to appreciate to give you a shout out for leaving us a review. And let me just read what LC-1824538 had to say. It's here's he or she, I don't know, right? A standout podcast, fairly new to the mortgage lending world. I've been in search of a podcast that would benefit me as I grow in this industry. It all fell short until I came across this one on the MGIC website. It's perfect and a must for all mortgage lenders. Hey, man, thank you very much, whoever wrote that. Feel free to reach out to me on the Facebook's DM me. Let me know your t-shirt size and your mailing address will get Jeff up, podcasts, swag box. That's getting better every time we send this out, packing it full of goodies. So if you'd like one of those and you're a podcast listener or a fan, you know what to do, just wherever you're listening to this, whether it's on Apple, Google, you want to jump on our Facebook page and leave us a review there. Feel free to do that and don't forget to check us out in our podcast community. Over on Facebook, just insert the search mortgage marketing radio and you'll find us more good content coming to you just for podcast listeners in our private group there. And as always, this podcast is sponsored by the mortgage marketing pro membership, which is the place for mortgage originators to blend the online with offline, largely by way of very strategic and proven processes to get you in front of maximum realtors minimum time to generate referrals, but also help you make the shift into becoming a modern originator with some self-paced training tutorials and help accountability and support around you becoming a modern mortgage professional learning all the cool things that we need to learn today, whether it's digital marketing, social, all that kind of stuff. So you can check that out at mortgagemarketing.pro for more info. All right, so on to this week's special guest in speaking of being a modern mortgage originator. Sometimes what I'd like to do is mix it up on the podcast, right? And I'd like to bring what I think is hopefully a relevant conversation for you, the listener. And this one fits right in there. So my special guest is Eric Buron out of New York City. And Eric is, I can't remember 25, 26 years old, under 30 years old. And he is what I will identify as the new breed of modern mortgage originators that are coming into the industry now. As you may know, the average age of an originator is about 54 years old, but there is a new group, right? The new blood, the life blood coming into this industry. And what I like about them is that oftentimes they're paving the way for us. They're teaching or they're showing us how to how to be, right, a modern originator and not just live and die by the old school tactics, which I'm not going to argue to those still work. Sure, not all of them work as well as they perhaps have in the past. So Eric came across my Instagram feed largely because of hashtags probably, but he has over 15,000 followers and he's only been a licensed originator for two years. But this year in 2019, he will exceed 25 million in production, which is double his production from the previous year. So literally, he's double his business in just one year. And the conversation I had with Eric when I reached out to him, I thought would be one of getting all his business from social media. And much to my surprise, you'll hear him answer the question when I ask him his number one source of business, it may surprise you. What may not surprise you though or what might be a refreshing kind of insight and lesson into how he gets that business, the process he goes about getting that business. So really, Eric's blending both online and offline, as a matter of fact, that's his number one goal with online is to move it offline and to accelerate the relationship because that's where trust happens much more quickly. So Eric's doing a lot of great things well. You know, he has this awesome event he does called the re-brew event and the re-brew, right? Really cool. And he gets great attendance at this event, which is a fun kind of, you know, get together for real estate professionals in his market of New York City. So I just think, right, here's what I want to do. I wanted to bring kind of a, you know, a fresh conversation from somebody who's new in the business and who's obviously still, you know, young as compared to, you know, the average age of a lender in this industry and just kind of really just, you know, ask him a bunch of questions. How is he generating his business? How is he prospecting and marketing to real estate agents? How is he handling consumers, you know, is he doing the online app thing or are they meeting in person? So that's the point and intent of this conversation is to get a peek inside, right? That's the next gen of originators and to see what that looks like. So I hope you enjoyed this week's episode and I appreciate you guys leaving a review as always. You know what to do and we'll see you on the next episode. But thanks for tuning in and let's get into this week's show. Eric Braun, not your average lender. Welcome to the show. Thank you, man. I appreciate the opportunity. Man, I got to say I'm thrilled about this, this interview because, you know, I'm often on the hunt for originators who are doing stuff that I think is unique and different and really stands out. And I don't know how the hell you got on my Instagram feed, but you did, right? One day I'm just browsing. You know, if you're doing the flip thing, right? Thanks. Arstag. Probably the king. You're the Arstag king. We're going to talk about that and all of a sudden, and of course, I'm like, I'm holding your phone up. I got your feed right here. Bro, look at you. Don Draper dressed. Awesome. Love it. Love it. Anyway, what caught me is like I'm just, you know, scrolling thumb-stopping content. And then I look at it. I'm like, who is this dude? And they're not your average lender. What's that all about? And then I look, I'm like, whoa, 15,000 followers. All right. There's something going on here. Now we're talking here today. For the listeners, let's unpack this a little bit. Who you are, where in the market are you, and how long have you been an originator? So I've been licensed for two years. I'm 24 years old. I'm out of the Long Island, New York market. What was the other question? Did I miss anything there? I had it on everything. I think that's it. Who are you? About two years, two years licensed, but four years in the biz, right? Yes, yes. Two years. For the first two years, I was like a telemarketer during the ReFi boom about four years ago. So that's how I got started, cold calling people with existing mortgages. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That's the stuff, isn't it? They love to get those calls. That's the way to get started, in my opinion. And so you're calling New York, New Jersey, all that? New York. Mostly. And we are doing re-fives or more re-fives or focusing on them, at least. We are doing national, nationally, yeah. No, I ask about New York because many, many years ago, for those listening, I may not know my background. I was working for Tony Robbins and doing seminars and stuff, right? And we would come into a city for eight weeks at a time. And we started calling all these sales organizations in New York. Well, let me tell you something, man, you've had to have your game on. You calling New York. And it's crazy, because I talked to Lone Offsters all the time. I listened to your podcast, and I always think, like, does this apply to the New York market? Because it is a little different here. You've been originating for two years, like individually yourself. Do you not, are you on a team, or are you just like on your own? I'm technically work under a branch, so I help manage that branch a little bit. But I have a team within that branch about four Lone Offsters that I'm pretty hands off with. I have them kind of delegated, have their loans being worked on by somebody else, so I'm very, very hands off. I just brought them into the business or brought them into the company from another company. So I do a little bit of recruiting and stuff like that. But technically, I work under a branch manager, if you will. Okay, yeah, but you're not getting fed any deals and things to do. Yeah, yourself, Jen. Yeah. Give us a sense then. Here we are at the time we're recording this is November 1st, 2019, how do you think you'll close out 2019, like units or volume? What are you kind of forecasting? I'm going to say, I'm at, I checked before I went on because I knew you were going to ask this question. So I'm at, I'm at 18 million. And I'll probably, and I have like five million in the pipeline right now. So I'm probably going to say around maybe 30, if I really, really kick it, kick it up a notch. And how many units is that roughly? Well, the average loan amount here, I'm going to say my average loan amount is about 380, maybe 400. So if I'm at 18, that's about 45 minutes, 45, sweet man, sweet for the year, yeah. And how does that compare to last year, and I, by the way, we didn't prep for this at all. I'm putting you on the spot a little bit. That's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. How does that compare? It's double. Double. Okay. Yeah. So you double it again. This is, this is great context. I'm setting this up because this is relevant. Everybody's listening. This is going to be relevant to where we go here. So you doubled your business essentially in one year. You know, we don't need to get into 2020 yet, but let's just take it from where we are now. Okay. Your number one. No, no, it's funny because when I asked you this question originally, when you and I talked, I was expecting a different answer. But because of who you are in your presence online and stuff like that, what's your number one source of business? Well, real to referral, but how do I need those real to his Instagram? Exactly. I like the comma, but I want to clarify for everybody listening, right? Number one source is still real to referrals. But now let's get into how in basically two years time, you doubled your business as well, what is your main method for engaging with realtors? So I, social media has, like I really credit every single unit that I've done this year through social media in one way or another, right? Or at least 90 or 80% of them. So how do I meet realtors? A, which is the old-fashioned way, networking events, maybe I'm working with a buyer's agent, I break into their brokerage to try and get in front of more agents that they're familiar with. But mainly it is through Instagram, Facebook, and kind of reaching out to them in a relational way, not a salesy way, because what I see a lot of loan officers doing is, hey, I'm a lender in the area, just send me all of your buyers, and that's kind of how they approach everything. And me, it's like, hey, what's up? What's going on? I saw that you like my picture, house business, and I'll start off the conversation like that through either Instagram, DM, or Facebook messaging and invite them to an event or invite them to a one-on-one. I try and always take the online relationship offline. Do you have a sense of your 15,000 followers, like this is a difficult question perhaps, but roughly how many agents are following you on Instagram? I'm going to say, well, real estate professionals, because I do have a lot of loan officers that follow me as well, as of recently, because they're watching what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to say, it's probably half real estate professionals and half entrepreneurial-motivated individuals. And maybe I shouldn't say half an F, because then there's always my high school friends that I grow up. Sure. Well, the point I'm trying to get to is really, I want to kind of really be very specific here, because a lot of people throw out generalities about, you got to be on Instagram and this and that and all that. But you, I think, have very tangible results to speak to, which is what I want to kind of unpack here today. You mentioned something briefly there is you see a real estate agent who likes one of your photos. And by the way, we're going to put links in the show notes, but your Instagram handle is not your average lender, I'm going to ask you about that in a second. But back to the point about, you've got what it's funny, I was watching you give one of these presentations at this event down on Miami. What was the name of that event again? So that's the, that was the legional loan officers conclave. So the legional loan, loan officers, I'm a part of there a course, they sell a course to for Facebook ads. Yes. Yes. No, I know Nick. Yeah, met him. Cool. Met him at the aim conference out here in Vegas. Nick is the man. Nick is the man. So he brought me down there, one A, because I'm a part of the legion and two he wanted me to kind of give my two cents on Instagram, because obviously Facebook leads are Facebook leads. Yeah. So, but you said something at this conference. So your teaching, was that a room full of loan officers? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So you're teaching a room full of loan officers. And you wrote down a couple of things that you said there. You said you are the brand. And so a lot of your Instagram feed and your images and stuff have video clips of you teaching why you should should build a brand, for example. Yes. Yes. So when you, all right, let's roll us back two years. Why, why did you choose mortgage, right? What were you doing? What brought you into mortgage? I fell, I fell into the industry. It's sort of like Jordan, Jordan Belford, Wolf Wall Street kind of story where I met an individual. I was 18 years old. He drove in Audi. I love German cars. So instantly, and his Audi was brand new. I was like, don't even start it on Audi's. So you know, how much my battery, dude, nothing interrupt you. My battery. I'm replacing the battery today. How much, you know, how much the battery? 575. Oh, yeah. No, all day. Oh, yeah. Don't let anybody. Sorry. But so he drove a brand new Audi. I had an Audi at the time as well, but it was old. So in my mind, if you're driving a brand new Audi, you're making money. So that's how I kind of meet this guy. And two years into our relationship, I would see him here and there. And I'd speak to him on the phone. I'm 20 years old. I'm not working at the time. And he asked me what I'm doing for work. I was like, nothing. He's like, well, why don't you come be my chauffeur? I'll buy a brand new Audi. You can come be my driver. Little did I know he was just joking. But every day I called this guy, and for about two weeks, he kept on saying, when you get to come drive for me, when you get to come be my chauffeur. After those two weeks, Rover, and he was like, all right, the joke's over. How would you come to my office? And I got a real job for you. And I went to his office again, not knowing what he does. Didn't ask any questions. I was just showing up for a job. You were hungry. Absolutely. And that's what he was testing to see by joking around with me and asked me to be his driver. Wow. I showed up there, filled out an employment package, and when the background check came back, I was on the phone telemarketing. Oh, gosh. Rest of history. So that's what I got in. Okay. All right. I just wanted to get that context. So fast forward, when did you realize building a brand was important, was going to set you apart? And you know, how did you, like, maybe it's just because of your age group and stuff like that? If I'm going to do this business, I'm going to go all in on Instagram or social. Yeah. So how did I realize personal branding was going to bring the next level? I would say because I looked at social media and I didn't see any loan officers. And as somebody who's obviously we're not self-employed or at least I'm not self-employed, I'm a W2 employee, right? I work for a bank. However, I have to think like an entrepreneur. And in my experience, thinking like an entrepreneur and thinking like a business owner, I have to constantly ask myself, how do I separate myself? So I saw social media as like an open, it was an open landscape for me, right? Nobody was there yet. And then I went, I went all in and obviously now, two years later, it paid off. Consistency though. Oh, sure. Yeah. Because I mean, you know what, I look at your Instagram, it's not like if I made dare I say, it's not like you have a ton of posts. No. No. I'm 137. How much? 137. 137, yeah. Yeah. I'm super active on my stories. That's what I think. Like a lot of people miss, in my opinion, is they post a lot, but being active on the stories, giving like sort of a day by day, looking to your life, you're, you're going to get more engagement because the people want to know what you're doing right now. Yeah. Not what you think you're going to go when you move. Right. And that's a great clarification. By the way, I'm glad you pointed out that distinction because obviously if we are able to look at your stories, you probably have like thousands of stories. Yeah. Right. Well, right. Yeah. Thousands without a doubt. Instagram highlights. Sometimes I'll save the stories. So if you like, right, mid, midway through the profile, you'll see reviews, events, the show, age and collaboration, motivation, travel. Those are some of the stories that I'll save to those categories. I actually have to clean those up because a lot of them are old, but I'm constantly on my stories. It's, it's become just a part of what I do now, it's just a muscle that I've trained, whether it's me sending out a pre-approval, I'll do a quick story on it, whether it's me giving like little motivational ushpila, I'll shoot a story out, that's, that's kind of where I stay super, super active. And you're right. I want to do, I don't have many posts, right? If you look at just that, I want to do double the amount and that's why I'm hiring a full time video, I'll hug for very shortly, beginning of this year. Well, you're doing a lot of things and I'm not trying to say that you're not, you know, by that. No, I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, from my Instagram feed, you're at you, you posed a question to the audience which was, what do you see on all these posts and feed? And the answer was, we see you face. Yes. And that's to be honest with you, man. So, look at age, age gap, gap here. We got to like 25 years between us. That for a lot of people, the average age of a loan officer is like 54, right? And that is a challenging road for some of us to take on to be to be like, dude, it's all me. You know what I mean? And some people have that external perception, but educate us a little bit about what you're trying to do with your brand, right? So I was just talking to somebody about this today. I think a general principle in business, whether it be mortgages, real estate, your restaurant or you own a body shop, whatever it is, a general principle is people need to know you, right? Grand Cardone, if you're familiar with him, he always talks about cash flow. That's like a recurring theme because he's a real estate investor. And one of the things he said was, if people don't know you, they can't flow you. So I want to walk into a room and people, and I've had this happen to me. Literally, I've walked out of a bathroom at a networking event. Still, my hands are still wet and somebody popped around a corner and says, hey, you're not your average lender. I've never met him before. That's the power of building a personal brand because one day I'm going to, one of my clients is going to make an offer on one of these agents listings, right? One day I'm going to come across them. I'm going to see them at a networking event. And I wanted to be a warm connection right from the get-go. Even if it doesn't translate to business immediately, I want people to know who I am. So when I, when I really, I don't want to say I cracked the code because that sounds like a, you know, overused. Right. But when I, for lack of a better phrase, when I, when I cracked the code is when I realized I have to, I have to make it all about me, not mortgages. Nobody wants to hear about mortgages. And it's crazy because people started to follow me. People started to recognize me more. People started to appreciate who I am. People started to send me business because of who I am because I let them in on my personal story. Let them in on me a little bit. And I'm not talking and don't get me wrong. Educational content is really valid. You want to position yourself as an expert. Right. But to really, in my opinion, people don't do business with people they don't know. So I want you to know me when you go to your, my Instagram. Interesting. What, um, give me a sense of the agents that you work with. One might, might make the assumption that most of the agents you work with are also in the same age bracket as you. Correct. Correct. Correct. And that is correct. Yes. I'm going to say, so I just had an event. The median eight, there was 110 people there. 90% of them were realtors. All through Instagram, by the way, I promoted everything through Instagram. And I'm going to say the median age of that group was probably 25, 27. Interesting. Um, I'm trying to think about them in the context of like my listening audience. I know I have a mix, but knowing that the average age, right? Of an L, like we said, skews, older. Right. Um, any, any, I mean, are you, do you have any idea why that? You think that I'm obviously the, the quote, I hate to say this phrase, the quote younger people, right? Are more active on the socials and stuff. Yeah. And I think that's also who I connect with. Uh-huh. Yeah. No. Like because of your style, because of who you are and all that. Just because I'm young and they're young and we want to grow our businesses together. And we want to work with like a, we're the next generation of real estate professionals. So in, in 30 years from now, I'm going to be saying all these young kids, you know, on the, over the thick top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's not only who's watching, that's also who's, um, who I connect with. And I've noticed that and I've doubled down on that. At first, I didn't like that because younger, the younger crowd have been in the business less. And they're doing less production about it for the most part. There are some rock stars that I work with that are crushing it, even, even if they're 20, you know, two years in the business, let's say. Sure. But at first, I didn't like it because I'm like, all right, you know, he's a brand new agent or, you know, two years in the business and he'll be lucky to do 12 deals this year. Yeah. But I just need to know more people like that. And I don't really count, I don't really count it as, all right, this agent does X amount of business. I'm going to go after him. I just want people to know me if they like me, they'll send me deals. And when they do send me a deal, they're going to find out how, how good I am and how good I am on my job. Basically, that's how I kind of work it versus the opposite, which is tell everybody how good you are at your job. And they'll send you business. I tell everybody who I am. Hopefully they like me. And then they find out how good I am on my job. Yeah, it's interesting. It's funny, right? Go back to what you said. It's the old cliche people do business with people they like, right? Yeah. People first talk. Right. That's the first thing. No, they got to know you. So that's how you're getting known leveraging today's platforms. Yeah. Let's talk about some more tactical stuff you're doing. The brewery. Tell me about that. So brewery for the people listening, it's, it's spelt because you can't really, it's easier if you see the logo. But, yeah. B-R-E-W-R-E. The R-E stands for real estate. And it's a plan on words with brewery, where beer is made, right? So being in the industry, young. And this is probably why I attract a younger crowd is. I noticed one thing I noticed is I would go to networking events and I. I would cringe while I was there because I kept the X in myself. Why am I here? There's nothing valuable. I'm not learning anything. I don't want to hear this guy talk anymore. You know, like there's, there was something wrong with at least the networking events that I was going to. So I said to myself, let's start our own. Let's make it truly just about building relationships. I don't present there. I don't, I don't get in front. I don't do any speeches. Our hashtag is beer and real estate. And I want the event to be about beer and real estate. It's free admission. We, you know, free beer. It's, it attracts that crowd and it's, it's a good time. Everybody has a good time. And this is like my way of getting a little bit deeper with the people I am currently doing business. And then also obviously attracting new people to build new relationships. So it kills two birds, two birds of one stone. How often do you do it? I'm worth this. So we just had our second one, right? And my goal is for this to be like a national platform one day, by the way. And one of the cool things about it is we move it from brewery to brewery. And there's tons of breweries where, where we live. So it's kind of like a moving networking event. That's one of the cool components. But our, this is our, we just had our second one. And we're looking to do it quarterly. On top of a few other events that we like to put together. So it's purely get together network have some beers and stuff like that and people just talk. They, they work. If they work it, there's no like that's it. Any announcements, any like none of that, no gender, no nothing. No, but people know you, you're, you're behind it. Yes. I'll get up and say, hey, everybody, thanks for coming as promised. I'm not going to do any speeches. We love to, you know, have a chat with you if I don't know you and have a good time. That's basically how I lead it. When was the last one you did? Was it recently? Yeah, it was last month. It was October 15th. And since that for you in terms of any organic business, you know. I've got it. I'm going to say at least three deals, at least renew from new partners. Yeah, people who hadn't been before. Yeah, on top of the existing relationships, yeah. How do you, you mentioned you promoted exclusively on Instagram? Well, Instagram, I shouldn't say Instagram. Instagram is just like my default for social media. But Facebook and event, right? But no promotion. You're creating an event. You actually have your own page for it on Facebook is what you have. Yep. Yep. I'm going to go there and check that out. Facebook.com forward slash. I did buy the URL. Realty built the, the website out yet, but I did buy the URL. No, that's good, man. Very smart. It can play in long term. You get the long game going. Yeah, absolutely. It's good. All right. So I love it. Connect, connect, relax, enjoy. Yep. Right? The logo I got done at Fiverr. Did you really? That's a nice logo. Yeah, I think it was like 50 bucks. Wow. That's pretty cool. I like that. Oh, by the way, I broke the brewery. I've had their beer. Yeah. Good stuff. So that was our last event. We went, we went big. That's it. That's a big venue. And it was, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. That's cool. All right. So you already got, you've only done one, I think, or, you know, either way, that's when you do, you got three deals out of it already, that you just off the top of your head track. Okay. Let's go back into some more tactics. Okay. So we've got the brewery thing going. You got Instagram. Are you actively using Instagram to follow DM and gauge comment on agents to try and grime up relationships? Absolutely. I bet that's. And I've been doing less of it now because I did it, you know, extremely, extremely, uh, diligently, yeah, diligently. Thank you. Um, and it's created so much business for me that now I'm busy. And I can't do it as often. Um, part of the, so I'm bringing on a full-time video. And I'd like for them to sit there an hour, an hour a day and do exactly what you said. Like comment, engage and, and DM realtors in, in our, in our market. I've, and, and what's crazy is a lot of time, like I've DMed realtors, I've spoke to realtors two years ago, right? When my page wasn't as built out, when I was less known, uh, when I wasn't a part of this organization and, and I never seen them before. And now, you know, they kind of brushed off the message two years ago, but now that I've stayed consistent in front of them, they follow me. They subscribe to my mailing list, if you will. Right? That's really what Instagram is. It's a mailing list for your followers. Um, now they're sending me business two years later. So again, by staying consistent. Yeah, it takes time. That's an interesting perspective. You just shared Instagram's a mailing list. Yeah. So essentially, so email marketing, think about it, a few years ago was like the thing. Yeah. Like it was like the thing to drum up business, to drum up leads. Now we get, you know, as we're sitting here, we're probably getting 10 pieces of junk mail from Macy's. Right? Um, and it's not as effective. No, no disrespect to Macy's. No, no, that's not all at all. And I probably click them and shop those deals that they're offering through email. It's not, but it's not as effective as it is. There's so much of it. It's a crowded space. But when somebody clicks follow on Instagram, when somebody clicks Ed Friend on Instagram, you now have their attention. Use it wisely. Right? So if I'm staying in front of them every single day on my stories, talking about I just sent the pre-approval. It's midnight to an agent that I work with. And the next week they need a pre-approval at midnight. Who are they thinking about? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and think about the word follow. Like they're literally following you. Right. And, and that's why I know what, what makes me think of, what that makes me think of next is, like your brand needs to have the movement attached to it. When somebody follows you, they're following your brand and your movement. So that's why I kind of have my, my underlying theme throughout all of my content is defeating average and real estate. And that's, that's really where my brand comes from is not your average lender. I'm here to defeat average and real estate. And that's the mission that I have people like embark on me with. And so how do you, what do you mean by that? How do you defeat average and real estate? What does that really mean? Okay. So my mission statement is to remove average from real estate by adding value to tumors and real estate professionals. Okay. So how do I defeat average? And I'll give you an example of average, like, not picking up the phone. Like why are standard solo in our, in our industry? Right. I talk about that all the time. Like why are standards so low? Why is this acceptable? Like this, we're getting paid, you know, lots of money. Why don't we conduct ourselves like like that? You know what I'm saying? So and loan officers are notorious for not answering the phone, especially when there's something wrong. So a lot of real estate agents love hearing that. Like, yeah, my loan officer never never answers the phone. Like why is that acceptable? Number one, let's raise that standard. That's what I mean by defeat average. Now by adding value on top of doing all of that stuff that we should be doing, that should be standard. I really focus on helping agents become more successful. That's, that's how I build relationships and go deep with people, especially the younger crowd that I, that I naturally attract. Like they want a partner. They don't want a loan officer. They want a partner. And I spend a lot of time and energy into their business. Because I know if they're doing more deals, I'm doing more deals. And that's how that's how I put it to them. Give us some examples of how you pour into them and help them in their business. So number one. I'd, I'd say from a buyer's agent perspective. So there's a few ways I break it down. Like buyer's agent sellers agent. I was just listening to one of the episodes on your, on your podcast for a listing agent cross qualified, put me as your cross qualifying lender, right? That's one of the value ads for a listing agent. Now, but for buyers agent, there's, there's tons of stuff. Number one, I get on the phone with the listing agent and push that deal. As hard as that agent's going to push that deal and touch on the strong points of the file. Hey, I know we've never, I'll get on the phone with the listing agent. Sometimes I'll even know the listing agent, which is a really slam dunk. Right. Because then there's no need to have that conversation. But I'll get on the phone with the listing agent. And I'll say, Hey, just to give you some context about how I do business. Before I'm issuing any pre approval, here's what I'm doing. I'm doing everything up front. I'm getting all paperwork. So they know that I'm thorough. And I know that I can close this loan in three weeks. Right. Now, I know this is a multiple offer situation. But if this is something your seller would be more comfortable with, I can submit this to underwriting and get a full mortgage commitment before the deal even goes into contract. If that means our buyer is going to get an accepted offer. If I do that, you just give me the green light. I'll do that today and get a commitment in, you know, two to three days. So I'll always lead with who am I, how I do business. This deal isn't falling through. I've done X, Y and Z. If it's a multiple offer situation, I'll always reiterate to them, Hey, instead of just this pre approval to bring to your sellers, you can tell them that I can have a mortgage commitment to them in 48 hours. If that means my client is going to get, get to get this house. Not only is that a value head for the agent, because they're getting accepted offers left and right. Right. But it's also a value head for the customer. Let's not forget about that. Yeah. I want to say that we're financing the house, but we got to get them the house that they want. Right. In this market, that could be the toughest thing to do, not even closing the loan. So if you don't know the agent, you make it a practice to call all those listing agents and run through that. At every offer. How many, what's the general response from agents when you do that? I have one today that, that, that told me the only reason she accepted, or she, she pushed the seller to accept their offers. Because of what I told her, I already have the deal in underwriting the deal isn't in contract yet. She told me that she has another offer with 20% down conventional ours is FHA with the seller's concession minimum down. Really? And she took your offer? Yes. Because I got on the phone and I took the time to explain to them. All right. For instance, our borrowers a teacher. They make, they make over six figures. They have a 790 credit score. I touch on the strong parts of the file. Obviously, you can't do that for the one. But, um, and I, and I ran through everything and I said at the end, if, if I submit this underwriting and get you a mortgage commitment, do we have a deal? And she brought that to her seller. Her seller ended up also being a teacher. So she felt for that client. Wow. And all of a sudden, the seller's concession that we were asking for. The three and a half percent down payment. The fact that you didn't, didn't matter at that point. Yeah. Um, so I think that those two things, the, the TBD mortgage commitment I call the TB determined commitment. Yeah. And getting on the phone with the listing agent. Two things that are free that I do for buyers agent that will immediately. You know, equal more money to them. And more value. Yeah. There's, there's a lot in there. I mean, I talk fast. No, no, no. I mean, there's a lot of learning essence lessons here. I want to highlight a couple of them. One, probably an obvious point to you is. It just shocks me that why don't more allows do that? You know what I mean? The, which, which bar getting all the listing agent. Yeah, exactly. Uh, lazy. Is it, is it lazy, not caring? Um, the fact that even if they don't get this house, they'll get the next house. And that means alone, um, you know, mortgage guys always have the, if this house doesn't work out, another one will real estate agents do not look at it like that. You know, hell no. No. And, and, and I make sure to put myself in the agent shoes because at the end of the day, like we mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, that's my number one referral source. I'm nothing without them. And I put that before everything. Well, you, you used the word partner. Yeah. That's what a partner does. A partner doesn't do that. Correct. Right? A partner does. And that's a mindset issue. Like you talked about earlier, um, look at this as a business owner, right? Um, and a lot of allows are in this, I'm a salesperson mentality. And let's face it, a lot of salespeople are lazy, some aren't, but a lot are. Uh, and they want to do the minimum just to get paid. Um, but I like, I love your mindset because I'm sure you're already aware. It's like, you're back to your brand thing. You're creating a brand everywhere. It's a matter of fact that reminds me. You appreciate this. Your personal brand is what you do every day. Yep. Like you say what exactly, right? You're put about Bezos. Yeah. Jeff Bezos is the best, the best, um, definition of a brand. It's, it's a brand is what people say about you and you're not in the room. So imagine that realtor hangs up the phone after talking with you. And you're presenting the case, right? For that buyer. And, and here she's like, only shit. Oh, damn. She goes, that's not, he's not your average lender. Exactly. That's how it comes full circle. That's, that's exactly what I want people to say when I'm not in the room. All right. Now, let me pivot a little bit. Um, what, how do you, when you meet with a realtor, I'm curious. If you tie in that pitch, if you will, to a buyer's agent. Because what you're doing is you're representing the buyer's agent's client. It's your mutual client. You're representing that and kind of like an attorney would represent a case. I'm wondering, because a lot of people are like, uh, elbows are like it. You know, how do I have a differentiation when I'm meeting with an a, you know, everybody's like on the rates and term thing. It's like this whole conversation around being a partner and a lot of people blow by that. So number one, I'm curious if you actually, when you're meeting with an agent, if you, if that's one of the things you highlight about how, what you do differently. A buyer's agent. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, but I think what I always like to, I would, I would, when I meet with an agent, whether it be one-on-one, you know, official meeting in my office or coffee or, you know, quick chat at a networking event, you know, I always let them lead the conversation. And I actively listen to figure out what they want to talk about. Maybe that's not what they want to talk about, right? But if, if I'd asked them, like, what's your biggest struggle in this market right now? Like, and they bring up a story about they're having trouble getting their buyers offers accepted. I'm, I'm hammering that, that those two value ads home on top of the other stuff that I do. Or if they talk about, hey, I, I, I'm having trouble drum generating leads. Maybe that's not the agent that I want to talk to, right? Because they have zero business. But if they mentioned lead generation in any way, that's when I bring in the lead generation component, which we didn't even talk about. If they're talking about, if they love social media and they keep talking about my Instagram or how I do videos and photos. Oh, that's crazy because I'm, I'm putting, I'm actually hiring a full-time video videographer. And the reason I'm hiring them is not only to do my content, but to do my top agents content for free. And, and I'll always like use what they, and I think I learned that from telemarketing early in my career. I'll always use what people say as like, you know, leverage. But I kind of let the conversation go. But that's definitely always something that I try and touch on because it's, it's one of the most overlooked and valuable things that I can do. For sure. I want to get into the lead gen thing in a second. But I'm curious if you could just briefly give me your philosophy or maybe a couple of talking points. When you do meet that buyer's agent for the first time, however you got that meeting, networking beers, whatever Instagram. And it's like, you know, we're going to do the freaking coffee meeting, right? What's your approach? How are you, what's your mindset going in? And is it a one step approach? Like, take me through that. I, I try and lean on personal first, right? Then it kind of transitions to, it always naturally transitions into how I do business. And how are you? How does it naturally transition to that? I'm curious. Are they asking? No, I'll ask something like, you know, how's business going? No, or, or I heard one, one script once, I forgot where I heard it. But if there was one thing about mortgage professionals that you could change, what would it be? And that's kind of how I'll bring it from personal to business. Sometimes we'll go right into business because they're like that personality type that doesn't care about any of that. But I always lean on how our team is very diligent, how we're working in the office till midnight, like because that's really the truth. How our back office works, how it's a team, and how we check everything in front, and how I've never submitted a deal to underwriting that didn't close. Like, you know, all, all of those like touch points on the mortgage process. And then I'll flow into all the value ads to help them with the business. But I'll always touch on how we do more urges first. After you've built rapport and you got the relationship. How do you typically leave that meeting? Let me set that up a little bit because oftentimes, you know, law officers leave the meeting with the handshake and stuff, and then it's crickets. Yep. So that has happened to me. Obviously, it's probably happened to all of us. And I noticed that, like, why am I taking on all of these meetings? These guys, they're not sending me deals months later. There's definitely some follow-up in place. I have it set in my CRM to call my, the agents that I have in my database every 15 days. Have I implemented that to the 100, like, have I implemented my CRM to the 100% capacity yet? Probably not, but that's definitely something that's important of one of the things that I built out. There's definitely the follow-up, like, hey, how's everything going? I don't know anybody that I can help. I'll ask for the business. Now, something that I heard as of recently that I'm going to actually start implementing is a sort of like a scripting where it's, you know, expectations lead to disappointment. So instead of this meeting, you know, leaving, instead of us leaving this meeting and you expecting one thing and me expecting one thing, can you make a commitment to send me your next three buyers? And I've been told that, and that maybe that's not it word for word. I have to figure out where I learn that from and rewatch the video a little bit. But I want to definitely start implementing that into the end of the meeting because, you know, we don't get paid to sit down with realtors. We get paid to close loans. So have you tried that question yet out on realtors? The past two meetings and they said yes. Have they sent me deals yet? No, but that was in two weeks ago. I always like to ask loan officers, like, what's the typical time where you get your first deal from realtors? Because sometimes, like, they obviously need to prospect and find buyers first to give to us. So there's always going to be a gap unless they have somebody ready at that meeting, which also sometimes happens. And that's really cool. It's like, all right, this coffee and I bought you, you know, it turns into a loan. That's pretty cool. Yeah, let me if I can add any value to you on this book. It's a book I got. I'm recently been digging into it was written by a guy I interviewed Chris Smith, co founder of curator. Actually, there's three authors and the one I'm going to have Phil Jones on. He's just a word Smith, but it's this book and I'll put a link in the show notes. It's exactly what to say to close the deal and it's just this little book of like scripting and awesome language and words. And earlier today on a coaching call, I shared this one, try this out, which is, would you be open minded to like opening every question with that? Would you be open minded to sending me your next buyer? Would you be open minded to right? Because everyone wants to open minded, right? Yeah, yeah. Of course, I'm a blinded S.O.B. Right. Exactly. So, you know, check that book out, link in the show notes and stuff, but, you know, exactly what to say. It's on Amazon 12 bucks or whatever, 15. Cool. But I just love that transition phrase. Would you be open minded too? Lots of ways. Yeah, yeah. But a big thing that I want to implement is, and I just started doing this as of two weeks ago, is really, really systemizing everything. Because right now I'm at a point in volume where I'm living a life that, you know, I'm making more money than I've ever had. But I think, in my opinion, in order to get to the next level, every little thing about my business needs to be systemized, whether it's a real term meeting, the CRM I'm setting up, how to take in an application. Like, of course, there's a flow that we always follow, but like, let's get super, super systemized with everything. I was told that system stands for saving yourself serious time, energy and money. And I've kept that from the day I've heard it's saving yourself serious time, energy and money, because it's so, so true. The best businesses have systems, look at McDonald's. They don't make the best hamburger, but they sell the most hamburgers. 100% love it. This is the solution. Let's talk a little bit about the lead gen stuff you do. Tell me about that. So, um, we generate Facebook leads, uh, range, yeah, yeah, exactly. Legion allows us. Yes. So we generate Facebook leads, um, as well as I always, I always let realtors know that we have a team of telemarketers. There's, you know, we have a whole sales floor of about, I'm going to say 15 to 20 sales guys. Some of them are more established. So your company provides that for you? Well, our branch, our branch. Oh, your branch does. Okay. Yes. Okay. And a few of those loan officers on my team are not established. They're kind of working how I was, you know, starting out and they're on the phone all day. So their, their job is to generate or drum up pre-approvals. Right. And what are those pre-approved, pre-approved buyers need agents? So I always, I always like throw that out there. That's not something that I do for every agent. That's something that I do for like my top ones obviously, um, who's ever given me the most business is going to get my next pre-approved buyer. But on top of that, we're generating leads, uh, for the realtors. And they're paying the ad spend, you know, they're, I'm not paying the ad spend unless it's again my top realtor, then we'll split it or maybe I'll cover it. But that's like on a case to case basis because if I start doing this for every realtor in my market and I'm paying the ad spend, obviously that's not scalable. But for the most part, they're paying the ad spend and, um, they're generating leads that same quality as Zillow or realtor.com, but it's a tenth of the price through Facebook, you know. How many realtors you have on that program right now? Three. Right. Are they reciprocating back to? Those are my three top ones. I start, I started with them and this is something that I'm going to roll out to not more of the not masses, but more of the masses as an attraction piece to build relationship. You mentioned Zillow for a second. Let me transition over to that because I notice you've got 51 reviews on Zillow as of today. That's really awesome. Plus you have, so I'm coming full circle back to you being like a modern originator. Plus your Google, my business page, you have 13 five star reviews there. Do you get any business because you've got online reviews? Not, not, not that I can track, however, whenever, so whenever I speak to a client, I do like my initial consult and I'll send the listed documents that I need. And including my contact information at the bottom of that text message or email, I'll always include my Zillow and my Google reviews. I don't know how I can't tell you how many times people have told me you have asked immediately after seeing my text message, you have amazing reviews and then they send the documents. Well, yeah, I mean, definitely it's definitely helping. Well, it's one of those things, like you said, it's not a direct line. It's a dotted line. It's similar to social media, in some ways, if it's not ad-based. It's a credibility thing. It's a trust thing. You've seen the stats, right? People trust online reviews very simply. Social proof. Yeah. And this guy's asking for my tax return. Who is he? Right? Yeah, and even before they get to you, like if it's a real to refer, hey, call Eric, they're going to go straight to you. Full goal. Yeah. Even after even after they speak to me, that doesn't mean they're going to be fully like they haven't met me met me in person yet. They've just speaking to me on the phone. If they click that link, now all of a sudden, my I'm edified in their head, you know, so it definitely definitely helps. How are so so you're doing the Legion with realtors. You're mostly working with people in your same age bracket. I was thinking, do you do any like, you know, naturally, I always ask the question about classes teaching engine classes trying to educate them, doing any of that kind of stuff. That's that's definitely part of first quarter of next year. So when we were talking about brewery, I said, and there's a few other things other events that we'd like to set up. I'd like to. And I have them written down because you get all these good ideas and then you don't execute. Yeah. Unfortunately, so I write everything down and like my notes, the events that I want to put together. Number one, I want to do CE classes, continuing education classes, because every realtor needs it and why not do it, you know, at the slow months of the year when every realtor is looking for their continuing education credits. I also want to we're a sponsor of NARAT in our market. So national association of Hispanic real estate professionals. Right. So I want to be more into that than there's a YPM, which is young person and young people network whatever. So that we're going to we want to start sponsoring and diving into that. And I also want to put together and this is something that I thought of recently a three day boot camp where it's like, you know, 20 agents max. I'm going to bring in speakers and people who are going to teach them how to be better real estate agents. I may get up there and give my spiel for 30 minutes, but I'm not going to be the focus. It's going to be more of like developing a community and an elite community of real estate professionals. You ever think about like putting together a Facebook group for that as well or something like that? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I have one that we talked we talked about a little bit when we were initially speaking the long islands top producing realtor. I haven't really even tapped the potential of that group. I've been just focusing on building it, inviting people to it. Now part of quarter one is going to be really pulling the audience from that because right now they don't even know that I created it. Like that's how that's how much I it's untapped. It's like something I'm saving. It's like a gas tank, but I'm going to really, really extract people from there more recently or going to plan to. Is that Long Island's realtor's Lenders attorney's home specters? No, it's long Island's top producing real estate agents. Oh, okay, God, I was just trying to do a search in Facebook for that. Yeah, there's definitely a few real estate groups. I wanted I wanted to be more of sharing tips and what's working business for sure what it is right now to be honest is like I've been open house coming up bring your buyers, which I don't mind, but I don't want that to be the focus because there's tons of groups for that. But as of right now, it's, you know, we got so much going on that it's hard to manage a Facebook group on top of it, but that's definitely going to be at the forefront. Very shortly. Yeah, no, it's smart. I'm working with some people to do that as well because it's all about how do you maintain how do you both cast a wide net and go deep at the same time because it's an ever evolving moving parade, this thing of real estate agents. You know, there's this old saying that there's a third coming a third stain and a third going. Yes, you know, that's actually kind of true with real estate agents. It's always in flux. Yeah, you know, but how do you, how do you have that big buck at the capture mall and stay, you know, social media is one thing, Instagram, whatever, but to your point about the group, that's a great way to add value to put content in there that have special guests. When I go live on Facebook or Facebook for this conversation, when I go live, I'll share it to that group. Sometimes I'll pull people from there that I'm not even friends with. They'll start watching my live. When I have events, I'll share it to that group. So I didn't want to become in a part of an audience. I wanted to create the audience. Well, it's like Gary V says, right? Don't attend the party. Host the party. Absolutely. That's that's why I want to do more events. That's why, you know, the boot camp, the brewery, long ounce of producing realtor's group. I'm all about I wanted to be mine as selfish as prideful as that sounds. I don't think that's selfish a prideful at all. I think you understand and get the game that you're in. The game is attention. Yeah, right? Because it's many attention leads to engagement and impact and then relationship and a referrals, you know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's see here for the last couple of minutes we have. I'm looking at my notes. You brands great, by the way. Are you consciously curious about this? Are you constantly deciding to dress like a sharp dress man or such as how they roll? So this is a huge Instagram tip right here. Yeah. One thing you have to realize about Instagram. It's the most visual platform. It's more visual than Facebook. It was made famous. Think about it. The their logo is a camera icon. Right. It was made. It was made famous through photography. Okay. So it's very, very visual platform. That's why millennials like it because there's less words. We don't want to read. Right. Long captions matter. They they they make sense to do sometimes not all the times. Right. Right. And you'll see some of my posts have three words under it. Some of my posts have four paragraphs. You know, it's all about the message that I'm trying to deliver. But something something important to mention. That Instagram is very visual. And what I do as a content strategy. This is a huge tip right here. When I talk about social media to people, whether it be a loan off to real estate agent, I don't have enough time. That's the main excuse down me. Right. What I personally do is I get a videoographer once a month. I bring three outfits and we shoot for three hours. My content is good for I'm good on content for that full month. If not more from that one three hour thing or appointment per month. And so you go to different locations and do some shoots and stuff. I'll drive my car. There's a bunch of content that I haven't dropped yet, but I'll drive my car. I'll walk around some nice houses. Yeah, like shots of you in front of the building and stuff like that outside of my office. Correct. That's so if you look at my Instagram, you scroll down. There's like a good, good 20 posts that I have all different outfits on, but that was all shot the same day. Yeah, a little batch content. Yeah. Yeah. And then why is it too hard? Yeah. And then this like I should be doing a story right now. Let's see that. No kidding. Look at that, man. So here on the mortgage marketing radio podcast. Say what up? What up, man? Eric Braun, not your average lender. Yes. Yes. So quick little stuff like that. Like I was just on another podcast today with a builder in my in my marketplace. I'm we're going to turn that into that was an hour and a half, right? We're going to turn that into weeks worth of content. Like the very Gary V. Esk. Right. Right. How to produce it. Well, I'm glad you said that because that was actually one of the questions I was going to ask you. I saw I was like scrolling trolling whatever you want to call it your Instagram feed. And I noticed you said you had one post that said your average screen time for this eight hours and 50 minutes. Yes. All right. So I see that. And I know the question for everybody hearing that is how the hell do you get stuff done? Oh, I'm on my phone getting stuff done. You know, I'm on my email that you got to read. I'm not on Instagram for eight hours and 50 minutes. I'm answering emails. I'm texting clients. I'm but yet. The only thing I'm doing that time can quote unquote time consuming is the stories. And if you think about it, I just took 15 seconds out of my day. That was that wasn't even 15 seconds. I was five seconds. If anything. And did that really take a lot of time? No, man. You just think it's to be this is what I've had to train myself to do. It's to build that muscle of awareness. Yes. To be like this. Now the time like you just trigger. I wouldn't even thought of it. But you did. Thank you. Yes. And this is I always. People in my office when we were moving offices. And I was. I was getting my little office within within the office. I was like, all right, this is going to be the content cave. And then in my office, all the loan officers call me content king. Because when I was when I was first developing my brand and taking social media serious, I go, oh, this is great content and go scramble and run for my phone. You know, oh, we're having a birthday. We're cutting cake. Oh, let me grab my phone. Hold on one second. And that's very obviously millennial of me. But like to train your your brain to say, this is an opportunity to capture content. Even if it's a five second clip, it's not that time consuming. It's just getting into it that people find out. Exactly. I'm 100% you just got to kind of train yourself to do that. I'm curious. Do you actually schedule time to do social or is it just so natural to you? You're just doing it. As far as posting, I try, I try and do twice a week. Try and do Tuesday and Thursday. I think I get the most or you're talking about producing content. No, let's stand posting for a second. You're posting every day on my story. Actually post pictures and you're right. I'm sharing stuff every day. I'm very, very active. But posting a picture I try and do at least twice a week or posting a video. I try and do at least twice a week. But I'm saying, yeah, every single day on my stories. I'm sharing stuff on Facebook, statuses on Facebook. I'm, yeah, I'm every day on it 100%. As far as producing content, yes, I'm scheduling a time with the video I refer to do it once a month at least. And now with the full time video, I'm going to be, you know, he's, I'm going to be doing stuff like this and he's going to be filming in the background. You know, it's, it's, I'm not even going to have to schedule it. He's getting paid to do it. I just turned on one of your videos and played do that. Super loud. All right, man, cool. So clearly, modern mortgage originator, being present, building a personal brand on the socials is working for you because in two short years of originating, right? You're doing 18 plus mill, if I'm reading my notes correctly, there's a 25. It'll be, it'll be 25. That's what it is. And that's not including my team production. That'll be in total personal and team be 50, 50 million. So you don't do coal calling any of that. No, not anymore. Ooh, but just that's right. The telemarker thing you started out by that. This is a much better way to do business. Yeah. Yeah, relationship, putting myself out there. That's, that's the way to do it. And then you got to position yourself as a celebrity and an expert in your marketplace. Then the business comes to you. Amen to that. Amen to that. Cool, man. This is some good lessons. All right. For those listening, where would you like to direct them? And of course, I'll link it in the show notes, but I'm going to assume your Instagram is like. Just follow me, message me. If you have any questions about social media, I try and be as open as possible. Obviously, it's difficult with all, you know, when you're getting flooded with messages, but I try, I'll try and get back to you. So just follow me at not your average lender on Instagram. And you could also have me on Facebook, Eric Braun. For sure. Yeah. Everybody listening or watching or on YouTube now. I definitely encourage you to go follow Eric and check out what he's doing. Just model mirror some of what he's doing and just start dupe in some of it. You know what I mean? Make it your own. Absolutely. Love it. Not your average lender, removing average from real estate. That's killer. That's a great value. Yeah. For sure, man. Hey, appreciate you making time, Eric. Thank you for the opportunity, man. I appreciate it. You bet. And listeners, as always, if you like this episode or any of them, you don't have to do. Leave us a review on the socials and I will see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to mortgage marketing radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you. 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