Ep 148: Closing Over 800 Loans with The No. 1 Female-Led Mortgage Team in AZ

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. And brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing. Hey, what's up people, Jeff Zimper. Once again, bringing you a hot episode, dropping it like it's hot because it is. In this week's episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio, so glad you've tuned in. And by the way, as you know, if you like these episodes, if you're getting value, would you do me a favor? Help me out. Obviously, we're looking to grow our reach. And one way to do that is with the amount of reviews that we can build up on the largest platform for podcasts out there to reach more people. And that is Apple Podcasts. So if you're listening to this on an iPhone device, on a podcast app, and you'd love to leave us a review, I'd appreciate that. It doesn't matter where you're listening, where you want to leave the review, could be Facebook, could be some other place. But any chance you get to leave us a review, I want to reward you for letting us know how much you like this podcast episode. Just like I'm going to reward this person right here who just left us a review under the handle. Glory, glory, Dan United. So if you're listening, Dan, Facebook message me your shirt size, your T-shirt size that is, and your mailing address, and we're going to send you off a T-shirt with a swag box and all that cool stuff. So what Glory, Glory, Dan United has to say is great show. He's been listening for a few years now. Thank you for that. I always appreciate the honesty and passion Jeff brings to the community. I often find myself thinking, I'm glad I am hearing this and hope my competition isn't listening. Keep up the good work. Well, Glory, Glory, Dan United, we're glad you're listening to. And the real question I have for you is what are you implementing? Take one idea out of each episode you hear and decide to implement that some point in the next 30 to 90 days. And I'd love to know how that's going for you, what you have implemented and what the one big idea is. If you want to leave a review, you know what to do, leave a review, you too can get a nice box of swag just like Glory, Glory, Dan United is getting his box. Oh, and also if you're looking for more community, more great content, check out our Facebook page. Just go over there and type in the search bar, mortgage marketing radio, the podcast group will come up. You've got to ask for admittance into the podcast. This is for mortgage loan originators. I have gotten requests from all kinds of people from across the world who clearly aren't involved in mortgages from people that are trying to sell products and wares to you. They are rejected. There are a few questions we ask when you come into the group. If you successfully ask those questions, should you successfully pass that test, you'll be permitted into the group and got access to all the special goodies we've got in there for you. So go check it out. And then lastly, if you're looking for even more training better resources to implement some of the ideas you've heard here, you may or may not know that we're helping originators become modern originators by providing them content tools and resources to help them succeed across the three main pillars of business and that's past clients, referral partners and digital presence. So if you want to learn more about that, we are going to be opening up enrollment and membership in the mortgage marketing pro membership coming soon. For now, need to get on a waiting list, go to mortgagemarketing.pro. You can put your name and hat there and we'll let you know when we make that available. Okay, so transition into this week's episode, I am so excited for my special guest who we've got here on this episode and her name is Lizzie Hofer and she operates out of the Phoenix, Arizona area and she is just a rock star, if I could dare say so. She is a senior loan officer with a guild mortgage and she runs the number one female lead mortgage team in Arizona for several years now and she is cranking it, she is building a brand, she is leveraging education, she is got a podcast, she's got her own YouTube channel now that has almost a thousand subscribers and her view count on that is pretty great. We talk about that on the podcast. She's starting to finally generate leads after about three months, she started to get inquiries from her YouTube channel, she's posting once a week, we're going to unpack that. We are going to dive into her number one source of business, now get this guys, how much production has Lizzie done, year to date, 856 loans, 856 loans. Now you may ask all, is that all her own personal production? I'm going to let you listen to the interview so you can get the real answer to that because I think she has an awesome answer to people when they hear that kind of volume and most people default to, yeah, but that's not just her, she's not the only originator. Well, listen to her answer to that because I think it's one of the best answers that I've heard when people kind of raise that issue, if you will, but seriously, she's a superstar lady and she's busy as all heck, so I appreciate her being here on the podcast. Her number one source of business, as I was going to say, is events, real estate agent referrals, teaching classes, leading with education, she's got the heart of a teacher. She teaches two to three classes a week, people get that, all right? So it's just a great kind of a crash course in how a mega producer originates all of this business and still has a life. All right. So with that said, I hope you liked this episode. If so, leave us a review. As always, you can reach out to me, you know, where to find me for right now. Let's get into this week's show. Lizzie, welcome to the show. What? Well, thank you for having me. I'm super excited. It is a pleasure to have you, especially somebody who's as busy as you, we were talking just before record. And I think it's funny that when we're recording this, you know, I said, hey, it's Friday, right? Let's have some fun. And you said, yeah, it's the start of my week. So your Friday is Monday. And I think any loan officer can relate that, oh, you mean there's such a thing as a weekend? No. It's like, you have some client event for the Lord, you know? Yeah. And we're going to definitely talk about that. So, for the listeners, give your version of who's Lizzie, what's she all about? How long have you been in the biz and give us a sense of your kind of year to date numbers? Totally. So, I got into the mortgage biz in 2002 when I was 19 years old, I started as the receptionist. I had, you know, done a lot of sales. I was raised by a salesman. And as a receptionist, I got to listen to everybody, you know, they used to call them sling and loans and just make a dial for dollars. And one of my tasks was to just shred like this, I mean, it was like five or ten inches thick of just dead leaves. And I was like, hey, can I call these? I'll do it for free. And if I convert one, well, you pay me 50 bucks for it. And I got a bunch of people to say yes. So I ended up moonlighting as a dialer. And that's kind of what started me into like really becoming a loan officer. I did a bunch of other jobs, I worked in processing, you know, it was a loan officer system. I didn't formally transition into sales full time until, you know, 2008, but I had been, you know, quote unquote, sing and loans on the side, you know, pretty much the whole time. So I, you know, have been a top producer for a long time. I would say more notably in the last like five years, for those of you who have followed my story, you know, I had a really public firing five years ago. You know, just like most people in the mortgage business, you know, we all have dysfunctions and we're emotional. So we got to stop right there because you're going to need to unpack what do you mean by that? Because I'm sure not everybody knows what you're referring to. But I know we can get online and look it up. But let's, why don't we just have you tell us? Oh, yeah. Well, I was just about to. So, you know, this is a business that's highly emotional. It attracts. It's like if you're successful, you've got you've endured, right? There's some, there's some shit you've gone through, right? Servo filling word dysfunctional. And the thing is that no one ever teaches you how to channel that or how to lead or how to manage. And when you're a highly dysfunctional person in a very dysfunctional business, that can get the better of you. So I was a brand new mom. I had just gotten married. We're having some financial issues and every loan mattered to me like more than it should have. So I became a work terrorist. You know, there's some people listening to this podcast, so I wonder if I'm worth it. You have to ask yourself that question, you're 100% a work terrorist. And it's rare to get fired for your job in mortgages as a top producer. So you know how to be really bad. And that was a pivotal moment for me. It really made me, you know, take a second look at who I wanted to be, how I was leading. And I spent the last like, it's now been six years. Really focusing on leadership, growing, you know, leading with, with purpose and passion, right, to do the right thing by client and then attracting people that just support that same vision. So I mean, it's been a journey. And you know, at the time, you know, I felt it was the most humiliating thing that ever happened to me. But honestly, I don't know how else you, you have like what other things will give you such a strong mental shift, but at the time I had closed like 167 loans. And I was a, you know, top producer, I thought my ship didn't stink. And today I've closed eight hundred and fifty six steals, right? And I'm a way better leader, way happier person. I don't think anyone would ever call me a work terrorist. And so it's just been a fun ride. Wow. Yeah, fun ride. That's a good way to describe it. So just to clarify though, for eight hundred and fifty six, that's year to date. Year to date. Yeah, 2019. And this is November when we're recording this. That is a ton of volume. So whenever we hear that, people are curious what's your team set up. You know, and you know where we're going this, right? I mean, is that all you? Do you got juniors? So can you break that down? So I have no junior loan officers, however, I don't do this alone. So that's like one thing, you talk to majority of all the clients and I definitely originate all the loans via events and classes and social media and stuff. The way that my team works, I have a bunch of people who call and take applications and needs list book appointments. I have people like me who have underwriting experience, who pre-underwrite the files and then I have people who take it from contract to close. So it's kind of an assembly line of everyone just stays in their own swim lanes. But I am the one that originates all the deals. However, you want to consider that, right? Because however, but I don't have people originating under my name. Right, right. Exactly. You're the rainmaker, but you've got the people to do the other stuff, right? Move them through the chain, the on down through the pipe. Totally. But however you build your business, however you build your business, can I just say one thing? Please. It really bugs me, those people that go, well, that's not really real because they have like five people underneath them. You guys, management is the hardest job known to me. In fact, it's like the hardest and my least favorite. So those people who have teams that are built on managing other salespeople, let me tell you their job sucks and it's really hard. And you shouldn't try to discredit their hard work because you haven't built success to your own expectations. Okay. Like those kinds of comments come straight out of jealousy and not out of like inspiration and abundance. And, you know, if you want more numbers, just work harder. Yeah, yeah. Maybe if the magic button works, all right, close enough. I love what you said there applause, 100% because look at the people who are saying that, right, do you have a business mindset or are you a salesperson mindset? So you can be a salesperson or you can be a businessperson, clearly you're a business person. You built a business, right? And that's the smart way to go if you really want to scale this thing. So good to do. I mean, you know, I know you know that bus, you're asking work hard to do that stuff. Okay. So you mentioned a couple of things. I want to start unpacking sources of business, main source of business, real estate agent education. So I teach and coach a bunch of real estate agents on business, business ideas, plans, execution, prospecting, you know, I was a diolar for a really long time. So I mean, that's a lot of where my expertise comes from. But I also teach marketing. You do a bunch of education online towards consumers, you know, teaching them about money, money principles, basic finance terms, you know, but I have a very large educational platform full of events and a lot of like social platforms. Does it have a name? So my, I actually just started a podcast and it's the same thing that we, it's called smart sense. It's a guide to like personal finance. Mm hmm. Okay. So you have a podcast, right? Let's take that for a second. It's just audio only. It's audio only and then we have money to Monday. And then we have a guide and well, you'll see in 2020, we were rolling at a home by our education class called smart sense, which is the same name as the podcast and the same name as a buyer guy. All right. I'm feverishly taking notes here because what I'm hearing is you've kind of moved into what I'll call a modern originator, right, with some of the strategies and stuff. So you're doing obviously the more traditional getting face to face with agents, you're teaching agent classes, right? On. How often do you do those classes? I do three to four a week. Three to four a week. Wow. Yes. And that's interesting because you may, you probably don't know because you and I haven't really spoken before, but those listening know that I'm a big proponent of teaching agent classes and that's how I did it for many years. And your, your topics are quite varied. Like you said, business planning, social media, all the stuff that they need to learn to grow their business. Yeah. It takes to grow business. I can't even teach on pianos, you know, balance sheets, you know, when should make your first hire, how you train people. I mean, so what's crazy about real estate and mortgage, just in general, is that we're industries that have and provide very little training for employees, and if you're looking for training, typically you pay an outside firm to train you on how to do it. So because there's a need there, and if you're any good at it, this is where you can solve the problems of your best referral partners and clients. How long have you been doing that teaching classes? Almost the entire time. Almost the entire, which is how many years roughly? 2008 is when I started, you started with finance classes. Okay. That's what I knew how to teach on. Sure. So is that the main funnel for you for agents? Yeah. So I have a couple things. So I have a newsletter where I talk about like what my predictions are for the economy and how it's impacting interest rates and how they can, you know, communicate those messages to clients. So that's the newsletter, my events, for sure. Mm-hmm. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Doing a lot of events. Sometimes I'm reluctant to ask certain questions like, uh, well, how many average attendees are you getting at the events? I mean, because being one who's done a lot of classes, I know that's really not the hallmark or the benchmark for success, but I'm just really curious. Okay. So any class will be somewhere between 10 to 40. Wow. Okay. Great. 10 to 40. So you've obviously built up your awareness and your presence in your local market big time with agents. Yeah. Okay. Do you have anybody helping you with those like title, escrow, home warranty? Um, yeah. I have a couple of title partners that help me fill those events. Okay. Great. So do you come up with the content, the topics to, because that's a lot of content. So I am constantly trying to stay ahead of the game in terms of business, just as it is. Our industries are changing at a rapid pace. Yeah. I really feel that in, if we're going to be relevant in the next five years, we have to make ourselves, uh, celebrity loan officers, right? We really have side value in a way that we've never had to in order to compete with the quickens of the world. Uh, I just think that in order for me to stay ahead of it, I have to be learning it. And if I'm learning it, I'm teaching it. Hmm. Why, why, so you mentioned a couple of things there like, uh, beat the quickens of the world. Stay ahead of them, so to speak, um, it's with technology like it used to be that they needed to come to us because we had the expertise, right? Take your tax returns. I could look at them. I could analyze them. That would be what separated me from somebody who worked at a call center, okay? Well, technology has gotten so advanced and it's going to continue to advance in a way that maybe technology can review a tax return better than we can. Or maybe there's fewer and fewer clients that actually need our expertise. And, um, I think the call center guys are getting better training. I think they understand branding. I think that, you know, um, I mean, quickens has like JD power, associate awards for customer service, timing, interest rates. I mean, whether or not that's true, right? Actually true. They're we're seated. The perception is there. Yes. And so as technology advances as these real estate companies start owning mortgage companies, you know, like Keller Williams, uh, open door. I mean, they're all looking at heading that direction. Zillow. Big conglomerates, right? There's going to be, you know, big banks. And then there's going to be those people that really provide value in a way that's beyond what you can Google. You know what I mean? But like when people come to me, I'm actually teaching them about finance just in general, but I'm giving them a strategy that actually coincides with their goals, right? So they're not calling me going, I want a 30 year fix. I'm calling them and saying, why do you want a 30 year fixed? You know, because there's a variety of different loan options, we have to become better financial advisors if you want to have any kind of relevance. And the only way for that to be communicated is to have really good social media marketing, is to have really good ads, is to have a really good community platform. So that's the direction that I'm taking my business. That's, I feel very passionate about it, you know, whether or not people believe that that's the way that it's heading. There isn't really a negative side effect to really going all in on this, you know, either I just have better marketing or I really, you know, hedge the curve there. I like that. There's no negative, you know, you have better marketing and what could be the downside of that more awareness, right? Yeah. So when did you start doing videos? And, you know, I'm going to bounce around a little bit based on what I'm looking at here on your website, but you've got a YouTube channel. Is that relatively new? Yeah. So I started a video about in 2018. And, you know, it was a little bit difficult for me because I am, you know, self conscious, like the rest of America. Sure. Just hard for me to be really consistent. And then 2019 was when I decided that screw it. I was just going to do it every five and three years of STEM whole year. You know, so just mainly this year, but I did start last year just. Well, just just to hang out on YouTube for a minute, you know, knowing a thing or two about YouTube, I think my first video on YouTube was 2006 or seven. Um, and I went on and off for quite a while, but I'm looking at your channel. And you've got some pretty good engagement. You got 900 as of today, 983 subscribers, 28,000 views. You got 48 different videos. That's in your view count, like per video is really solid. Yeah. I think we're getting some good topics there. Yeah. And we'll put links to all your stuff in the show notes, by the way, for people like listening. So you can go look at that. Um, but is there any like the YouTube or the video in general? Is there any kind of notable impact that you've realized since you started video? Um, here's what I will say in order to be consistent, you have to talk about something you're actually passionate about, right? Because otherwise you won't continue to do it. It'll be difficult and you'll figure out a million reasons why something else is important. Okay. So it has to be in something you're passionate about. I'm, I, while I'm extremely competent in mortgages, it's not my passion. Like if I'm getting real, like I go, bring up Jack in a box to go, oh my god, let's talk about that. Another 10 or three, baby. Now I'm grateful and I don't want that to come off the wrong way. But I'm passionate about teaching people about practical finance. For me, I feel like that's the way that all of us will win. And so it's easy for me to record those videos, make it a priority because it is fun for me at the same time. So I feel like once you understand where you're really providing value and it's something that makes you excited and you're going to be consistent at it, you'll have a message that transcends after video 23. Okay, so I do 23 videos before I started getting some leads in, right? I definitely get leads. It's another value, you know, value add to my current clients, right? Now they get a whole video library on different things that they can watch and see. You know, so there wasn't a negative side effect, but I was 23 videos before anyone reached out to me organically and said, hey, I'd like for you to help me with my home loan. And has that been happening since you've been consistent? Yeah, you know, I mean, again, it's not like a, it's not a floodgates now. No, but this year alone, like I've generated 72 different leads off a video and that for me is huge. All right, so what you said was you got 72 leads from video roughly since when is that roughly timeline? This entire year and that's on Facebook, it's videos on YouTube, it's videos on Instagram, it's all of the video. All right, and so these are people reaching out to you. This is organic. These aren't paid leads, right? Now what I know about people who come to you via video is that they're, I'll use the phrase pre sold, right? They already have built up some awareness, some trust of you. So here's what I will say. That is true. And then it's also, I, we had a big learning curve on leads that were sent to us just coming online. They really, really expect to talk to me. Oh, of course, yeah. So that we had a lot of attrition at the very beginning because we're not used to all the sudden being called by a member of my team. There was no handoff, they didn't stand on my team work. Actually had to really work on those processes. So I would love to say that I converted all of those deals. I did not, but it taught me a lot about the differences between these. And have you changed, have you changed your process at all? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Now, that's interesting. You say that because earlier I wanted to ask you about your process, you said you take most of your apps. So while we're there for a moment, maybe if you could articulate, let's just say you get a real to referral, which I know you get a lot of, how do you handle that? Does that go direct to you or what's the process there? It typically goes to my team and how it works is like all the ones that get pre-qualified. I, you know, reach out to either via text or I call them personally just to see how everything went. They schedule a meeting with my office. It'll be with me or maybe with somebody else on my team. If it's not with me, I'll follow up with them again after the meeting to make sure everything's okay. I do honor checks throughout the entire process. And then I also call every client for their CD to go over the numbers. Got it. And so you've obviously had to educate your realtors a bit on that process. Totally. Yeah, because again, back to expectations, yeah. Yeah, it's that. So that's the only obstacle with, or generating leads on lines, people want to speak to me. So you've gotten better at it. You know what I mean? And just communicating and saying, oh my gosh, we're so excited. This is where you found us. It's so incredible. Does he cannot wait to talk to you if it can't be me, who answers? And then they just say, here's the first step in the process. How many of the front-end people do you have that handle those types of calls for you? I have six. And then I have four pre-approved people on top of me. And are they licensed? Those front six? Everybody on my, everybody on my, everybody is. Like in fact, I'm in the process of getting my receptionist licensed. Just in case. You know what? I like for a team that can just literally all dig in. Like if we have a call night, I want everyone calling. If we have me Tuesday updates to be called for processing, everyone calls. Okay, let's get leveraged. No, very smart, very smart. Again, you're building a business, right? One that can actually survive and thrive. That's not 100% solely dependent upon you. Now, granite, you may be the rainmaker, but you know, it's like you said earlier, and you're not the first top producer I've interviewed who said they're not passionate about doing loans, right? They're passionate about some other element of the mortgage business, like educating teaching all that stuff. No one's passionate about mortgages. I have yet to meet one human being who's like so passionate about mortgages. In fact, most grown-ups don't even know the basic fundamentals of like amortization and true funding, unlike, you know, why the prepaid interest isn't, doesn't match up to the loan amount on the piece of money. Right, right. You don't really understand the fundamentals themselves, so I have yet to meet somebody who drinks the Kool-Aid to that extent. Agreed. All right, so back to the video thing for a moment. In regards to YouTube specifically, do you batch film content? No. Well, I'm like one or two weeks ahead of like the market, you know, or the week that it comes out, but eventually I record every week. I know you're trying to post once a week on YouTube. I just post once a week. Once a week. Okay, cool. Well, that's perfect. I know a realtor I've interviewed Karen Carr out of Georgia. She's been doing it for two years, one video a week. She gets on average now five to six phone calls a week from people watching her YouTube videos saying we've been watching your YouTube videos for three months. We're ready. I know, and so I feel like that'll happen too. I just have to. Yeah, oh, it'll happen for sure. 100% and you're doing a good job of it. By the way, the videos are professional. Are those shot in your office or is that a studio? They've been shot kind of everywhere in my house, the studio in my office. Yeah, but I mean, you got all the right things, right? Lighting, good quality, all that kind of stuff. So kudos to you. Any other things you're doing that you think are needle movers for you when it comes to digital online, anything? No, I'm using a lot of the typical influencer strategies. Which means? You know, I mean, constantly communicating to my client online and giving free tips, teaching in person. Mm-hmm. All right, let me hop pop over to you. Where do you get the most engagement? Personal or business page? I don't really have. The business page I only use for ads. So I've really used it. So it's mainly personal. All my pages are public. And so yeah, you respond to all my own messages. You do. Okay. Nice, nice. You're very active out and about. You're not sitting behind your computer all day. No, obviously. What is this? I'm now for those that aren't watching the video portion of this, but you're somewhere where there's a picture that's this neon lights leave Lizzy alone. Yeah, that's in my office. Oh, that's wrong. But it's A-L-O-A-M, leave Lizzy alone, right? Get it? That's nice. Looks like a pretty cash setup where everybody's kind of coming hang out. Is that where your classes happen a lot too? Nope, they happen all over the place. I find, you know, if I can go into a realtor's office, that's better. You know, it's classes. So I teach them all over the place. I'll be occasionally teach things in my office. I run a really dynamic team meeting on Monday where we invite a bunch of people, so it helps us recruiting, it helps with, you know, agent introductions. What do you mean you invite a bunch of people and who would be there besides your team? I invite whoever wants to come. So agents, potential loan officers, team members. So you bring in like a guest speaker or something to deal with the topic or? Oh, I do the whole need. You do it. Okay, got it. But agents are invited to come. People really want to work with me if they've got to see how we operate. Hmm, interesting. So tell me about that then. Tell me what is your kind of recruiting process for agents. I mean, obviously, you probably already have, let me rephrase the question. How many quote core agents are your A-players right now? I have 22 accounts that send us the majority of our business. Okay, 22 accounts. How do you keep the fence around them? Is that just your content, your classes, your education, all that? I don't, yeah, I mean, I'm constantly trying to provide them with value. I coach a lot of them. You know, I feel like because I try to stay ahead of most the curves, I'm a very valuable business partner. All right, so you try to stay ahead of the curve. You mean like staying on top of digital marketing, like you said, building your brand, stuff like that? Like when you use me as a lender, like I probably know your numbers of your business better than most. All right, like I can really go through there and go, hey, here's what we need to tweak on the canal. Here's where all the leads are coming from. Here's our conversion issue for this month. Here's what we need to tweak on this end. Here's what my team's doing for you. Like, loan officers, most, I haven't met any that do it to that extent. Like I do, I'm a nerd when it comes to like numbers and metrics and figuring out process, you know? You know, I could geek out on it for days. But like most loan officers, their number one offer to a real estate agent is that they're going to pick up their phone and take their beach. Right. And yes, you better be doing that and believe it or not, there are people who actually don't do that well. But if you really want to deal with people who run big teams and also run businesses, you have to be more of a business partner. Like it just be, I'm a greatly taker. It's how am I going to bring you business, how am I going to amplify the conversions that you already have? Right. Like, how is choosing me going to be the right business decision for you? And it shouldn't just be about like customer service to the clients. These are all baseline items. Closing on time, making the clients happy, being responsive. Like if you're not that, right, you shouldn't even be in the conversation, but you have to do that and then something else. Right. In terms of becoming a business partner, then where do you stand with the premise that, because I get what you're saying, the customer service and everything, the premise that some agents want you to help co-pay for leads, Zilla, for example. Where do you stand on all that? I think that if you're a true business partner, then you partner. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with investing in your business. I think healthy businesses have a 20 percent, you know, budget towards marketing. Local and officers don't pay for their own marketing. And if you do it right and you have the right conversions and you understand that those leads are your leads too and that you're working them just as hard or even harder, I mean, I don't see any negative side effects of it. Not what I hate about Zilla is I feel like we've funded our competition. So that's that. But in terms of, you know, doing a joint adventure with a real estate agent to get online meat capture, I think that it's smart. Have you tested any of those yet? Totally. And obviously it's got to be the right agent, right dynamics, all that, right? My best accounts send me all of the deals that they can. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, they don't do the three-card approach. Well, you know, they may, but I mean, we're converting them. You know what I mean? It isn't just about the leads. It's more about like, hey, we're in business together trying to provide the best service to people. Right, right. Well, they see you. This is what you're kind of talking about. You're an extension of their team. And I was talking about this earlier with somebody else about a lot of the top producers I interview. They do believe firmly that their customer process is a differentiator. Because somebody people give lip service to great rates, great service, whatever, great service means different things. And while people can talk about great, great service, that doesn't mean you're actually delivering it, you know? You've been really communicated to the ex like marketing bad customer service. Like, come with us. You've got to be like, hey, we close in 26 days. The average lender closes in 30 days. Hey, you know, 16 touch approach on converting leads versus the average lender those two. I don't think you communicate good customer service, but it is relative to the client's needs. Right. So I mean, for me, guys, I'm a business person. Businesses need marketing. They need promotion. They need ads. They need conversion. They need metrics reporting. All of that stuff. So I'm not a hater. I don't think it's a negative thing to go co-branded with your agents. I think if you're truly their partner, and you really want to be there for the long haul, it's something to consider. Just make sure you're compliant. Interesting. Are you messing around with Facebook ads or anything like that? You know, no, primarily this year for me was really getting down the messaging. Like, I don't like to just post out crap. And I really have a message to really go out to consumers with. I feel like now towards the end of 2019, I know what that is for me, and I know how I can really be a value in an area that I'm passionate about that I can see myself doing this for three to five years for free. Because that's what it really takes in marketing and like, if you really passionate about a cause, like, you have to be willing to do it for a long time because it's about service, not about what it's in return. Like, if you're always thinking about what I get in return, like, it's where that you're doing things one for the right reason and you're probably not passionate enough about it because I feel so passionate that regular everyday consumers don't have access to understanding the financial principles that will get them the best home deal. Because I really feel like that's a thing. I'm passionate about educating them, even if it meant that I got zero leads. Right, just because the cause to me is so important. Yeah, yeah. So you're why, so to speak, it's more of the financial education piece of it. Yeah, I really think that people don't get it. Like, they just have no concept. It's like the only guy in the game is Dave Ramsey, who basically teaches people, hey, you need 20% more than 15 years alone. Yeah, I never have any debt. You know, I read his quote the other day, it's that don't buy a new car until you have a million dollars in that savings. And I was like, what? Well, because he wants everyone to buy used cars. I know, I know, I get it. But that's just like, that's not realistic, that's not real world. Well, he's like the AA when it comes to credit. If you've had credit issues, if you did all that stuff, he's your guy. That's funny. But the rest of us, we need regular everyday stuff, but he's the only one out there preaching and he's done an exceptional job. I have nothing but respect for him. But I also feel like there should be another voice out there. Have you heard of Rick Edelman? No. You need to listen to Rick Edelman. He's the, I don't want to say the opposite, but he is a big believer. I had him on the podcast. So I need the link if you want. I'm not a list. Now I'm going to go Google him after this. It's RIC. It's like Rice Delman, Rick Edelman. He's got a huge, he is the alternative to Ramsey. He's got a huge podcast, huge independent financial advisor, but he's got about seven books out. But he's a big believer in, and I talked to him on the podcast about this. Take out the biggest mortgage, longest term mortgage, you can afford for all the obvious reasons of tax deductions and all this stuff that goes into it. I don't read into a biggest and all that, right? Conceptually, you get what I mean. It's like versus the 15 year where you're going to be strapped for the payment. That's not a good thing, right? You want to maximize your tax deductions and that's a bit more practical than that, to be honest. High approaches, if you can evaluate what you're spending, how much you're making, right? Actually taking home, what you have in the bank for rainy day, do you need to reduce debt, right? And then hoping on returns and then timing, right? How long do you plan on keeping the investment? How long have you been doing items? If you can evaluate all five of those things, then you know if you're making a smart decision, right? And so that's why we called it smart sense. That's what smart stands for. And teaching people that 30 to 50% of your net take home income is appropriate for your housing payment so long as you don't have a ton of discretionary debt. And what should go into a budget? And how much you should have for savings? And then how can you reduce debt at the same time of savings and then still living a comfortable lifestyle? For me, it's more practical living. And then understanding concepts like, what an annual percentage rate is, why a 30-year fixed mortgage versus a 15-year mortgage, how many different types of terms there are? People don't know that a 10-year and a 20-year exists. Right, do you use any tools like mortgage coach or something else to help you? Yeah, I love mortgage coach with a big fan. Big fan of the savage. Yep, a big savage. Shout out to Dave's dad. We're gonna do that fist pump that he does. There we go. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Dave's as well. I was using that thing when you had to download it to your laptop and all that. Get the CDs, it was fun. And so what you just went through there, what kind of your talk track, those are the kind of conversations you're having with your clients. Totally. Which is why it's different. What I'm curious about this is, what percentage of the market do you think wants that versus the, hey, I'm fine with the call center, 30-year fixed, one and done kind of thing? I think that it's information overload for people. I think that if rocket market, rocket mortgage is awesome marketing, but very few people actually use it. It's a very big message. Really, I mean, look at them a lot of people use it. No, they don't actually use it. It's like 30 percent. Oh, you mean they app itself? I, okay, I'll tell you. I think they go with quick and home loans because it's awesome marketing. They still talk to a bunch of people. Let me tell you, that company just filled with people who talk to people on the phone. 100 percent, yeah. Okay, but I think that people are, confused with what they can find online. And I think that that's where they gravitate towards places like YouTube, for their finding information and actual opinions. I think that if you can Google it, it's not that valuable, right? So I have an opinion, right? I have a plan, right? I'm giving people my perspective on how to make the best financial decisions and then giving a pathway to success. So I think that most people want a pathway to success and they can look up all the info that they want online, right? But it still makes them uneasy to use a thing like rocket orbit. Yeah, and all the data and research I'm looking at, pretty much supports what you're saying is it's the blend of the tech and high touch. People want to do their thing online. They're from the comfort of their phone, but you know what? They still want to talk to a human to help them navigate through the process, both lenders and agents, believe it or not. Thank you, huge financial decision. I mean, it's not as easy as ordering a cab. You got it right. I just bring that up because a lot of people like to make those parallels, that look at how Uber disrupted the taxi industry and it's like folks just getting a ride is different than getting a mortgage. But I will say that technology is disrupting. Like when we're beginning that our values to come in figuring out how to get you qualified, that's not our value anymore. Our value better now be making sure that you get the right loan for your finances. That makes sense that you're explaining and giving options, right? There's more options and there has been in the last five years now with mortgage insurance files, FHA, all the different conventional loan programs, DPAs. I mean, there's a lot more options in the work five years ago. Yeah, for sure. I'm curious with that, is do you open up with any specific script that you're trying to differentiate yourself immediately? You know what I mean? To combat that, hey, I'm not like every other LLO, here's why. You know, I think that we, I think there's a lot of the differentiates us with our scripting, but primarily, it's, you know, when you come to us, like we have you fill out sheets like they do at the doctor's office, you come into an office where you have an in-person consultation. Both of those things are very different. You know, on our website, so our website will be up and running in January, but one of the plans was like, hey, there are no rockets here. You're gonna sit down and we're gonna talk basically. I love that. That's great. So you try and drive roughly what percentage of people come in on site? About 65%. 65%. Wow, that's good. Do you have them start with an online app first or is it that call first? It's a call first. I don't believe in online apps. I mean, online apps are for people who like legitimately can't do it. I think that they never have good information. I think it's hard to connect with a client. I think your best conversion is to get them on the phone and move it through. Interesting. But you'll adjust like for an individual 65%. That's still a good show, right? But there are some people that whatever you'll accommodate can't make it for whatever reason maybe they're out of the area. Yeah, but I mean, honestly, you don't convert those that well. Of course, yeah, right, right. Like if you just want an online experience, go to quick and do your thing. Well, and again, I think that's why I'm trying to hit this, make this clear for listeners is that you do have the ability to differentiate yourself from the moment the first word you say to somebody, right? I love what you just said. It's kind of a summarization of like, so why am I different? And somebody's like pushing back, well, I don't want to come in. I just give you your rate, right? All the objections, whatever. It's like, well, that might not be your right customer. If you just want to rate, quote, and push a button, then we're not for you. You know, we're a little bit more delicate. I know. I'm just from compressing time. I'm not going to take you literal. I mean, they know I'm full of it. Go on, sorry, you're going to say a little more delicate. But we're delicate in that, you know, it's just like, hey, here, I always tell people what the rates are. I don't believe in hiding it. I don't believe in trying to trick them in a loan app. You know, I'm like, here are the rates, but tell me what it is that you're really looking for, right? Because the people who, just, you know, the only people who call in and want to know rates, they're high B personalities, right? So give them what they want so that they, you satisfy whatever issue is in that. You hold withhold information, they'll never trust you, they'll never go with you. Give them the info and then ask questions. Absolutely, I'm looking that up for you right now. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you're looking for, right? That's how you get along with those people. But it's very few. That's like 10% of the population, too, guys. Like 60% of the population will just do what you tell them to do now. All right. Forgive me if I'm putting on the spot here a little bit, but can you give us just a glimpse at your transition conversation that is the ask to come into the office? Yeah. So we take an app and then we say, okay, great. Your next step is an in-person consultation. We love to meet with clients in person for a variety of reasons. One, we can actually physically see if you're confused a lot of mortgage terms that you don't deal with on a day-to-day basis. And we really want to do an in-depth cross analysis of your budget, your plans for the future. We want to go over three to four different scenarios. And we just want to make sure that from this moment in time that you are set with the right mortgage to start your investments. Wow. And they're like, well, great. Well, one kind of come in. And then we just give them a time. Yeah. Most people don't really question us. We're flexible with the times. We have people who stay late. We don't really do weekend appointments, but we are very flexible with evening appointments. But I think you just tell them this is the next step in the process. And here's why. And the set, like I always start off with that. I can physically see if you're confused. Yeah. People are like, oh my God. Okay, I'm in. Because that's the thing nobody wants to sound stupid. They're not going to tell you they don't get it. Interesting. I love it. All right, so we're almost out of time here. What do you, you mentioned your website 2020? I'm trying to get a sense of what you have on the radar for you to kind of implement in the new year. I'm going to go all in on this smart-sense thing. So you'll see it. If you follow me, you'll see everything that we put out. You've already started putting it out. Where do I find that? By the way, is that just LizzyHoffer.com? Or it will be on LizzyHoffer.com in 2020. So it's not up now. But the website now that I have is also kind of different than most lenders have. Yes, it is, by the way. It's nice. And the content for the blog is very similar to what we're going to roll out. It's very personal, real, if you will. It's not the typical, the suit with the side shoulder pose. You're being you. Yeah, I am being me. Sorry, go ahead. What else you got on the, is that the main thing? Not social media, if you follow us on YouTube. Or my Instagram handle is Lizzy Irvine. And it's Lizzy with OneZ. And Irvine, like the city in California. Exactly. Awesome. We're definitely going to put links in the show notes. First of all, just mega kudos, congrats to you for your production, the business you've built, and you're clear you're impacting a lot of people, not only your employees and your team, but families as well. So just really hats off to you. I would take my hat off if I didn't have the headphones off. That's a, it's bad hair day. Anyway, so thank you for being here. And as listeners, as always, if you like this episode, you know what to do. We're going to put links to all Lizzy stuff in the show notes, YouTube, all that kind of stuff. Follow her, because she's definitely leading from the front and being the blend of both like a modern originator and the online and the offline together to create a really awesome business. So once again, Lizzy, thank you. And listeners, leave a review on the podcast if you like this one and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. You get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. 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