Ep 153: Closing 180 Loans per Year Working Only 40 Hours a Week

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing. Hey, Listers. What's up? Welcome to another edition of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. So glad you are here. And as always, I want to make sure that I take a moment to thank those of you who've let me know what an impact and a difference the show is making for you. I'm grateful for the feedback. As I look at the review page here on iTunes, it really makes me feel proud. I guess, if you will, in a way that over four years of podcasting, my goal was to make an impact, the positive difference in the industry. And I think, thankfully, with your help, your loyalty, you're tuning in, we are making an impact. And I don't say that based on, you know, my opinion, I say that based on the opinion of many others who leave us positive reviews. 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Go check out mortgagemarketing.pro, check out the short video. Maybe it's for you. Okay. So let's get into this week's special guest, Amy Wolfe, who is a social worker for mortgages, as she calls herself. I told her she needs to brand that and I think she's going to. She is really coming at this with the correct heart. I think if you will, she's got a heart for people, which has led to her helping her be so successful. She's running about, I don't know, 180 units a year, mostly purchased business, 50 million in volume. She's been in for 15 years and we just have a nice can of conversation that really touches on a lot of different areas. We talk about her working with teams and the fact that she recently had to clean house and working some of the bigger teams because it wasn't a fit for her business model anymore. We talk about the Zillow conversation and her having to break free of agents who the value prop to those agents was her co-paying for Zillow leads and how she had the conversation with them about that. We talk about her team setup, her front end loan partner people, her process for utilizing video through the milestones of the loan process to really create an amazing customer experience and a lot of different other things. I think you really enjoy this multi prong discussion about how to be a high producing mortgage originator and still have a life, she only works about 40 hours right now. It's taken her some time to get there, a lot of learnings. You hear about her best practices and what she's planning for 2020 and how she actually decides who she works with as real estate agents, the criteria and how she has those conversations and actually she meets with most of her agents individually every single month. You hear more about that on this week's episode, so let's get into this week's show. Amy Wolf, welcome to the show. Thank you. So glad you're here. I knew you were incredibly busy and we were talking just before we hit record. You have a lot to be excited about being from Baltimore with what's happening in the Ravens, right? Yeah. And in full disclosure, I don't think I have any evidence of it, but I am from New England. Oh, shame. You did beat us, so that's right. That's right. That's right. A lot to be said about that. You know, I know I put a risk of myself whenever I bring that up because there's the haters out there and they just love to pile on, you know, but anyway, we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about you and your successes and originator. Give us a quick background there. How long have you been in the biz, average units and volume? Um, but in this is for about 15, 16 years now, um, history is I previously was a social worker, have my masters in social work and was slinging drinks at a bar late at night to help make ends meet and talk to a guy who talked to me in the giving this a go. So now I'm the social worker of mortgages, um, do about social worker of mortgages. That's cool. Yeah, man. Cool. I like that. Um, I would say do about 50, about 50 mil a year, um, and average loan size about 225 out here in, in my neck of the woods over here in yeah, Frederick, Maryland. Yep. And so, uh, that was like, uh, how many units roughly, probably like 280, okay, 280. Wow. Nice. Good volume. Good volume. What's the main source of that business? Um, well, it's kind of an all-over. It's gone from real to referrals. Now we're told out of repeat business and really just staying in touch with their, uh, you know, our current clients and getting referrals from them. Mm hmm. So, um, core realtors, roughly that send you business? Yeah. Yeah. So we have, um, I have a lot of ones of the Tuesday realtors also that I work with. But, um, I have a really good name in the Frederick area and, um, you know, people know that we're going to close on time and give that great customer service and make them look good. So, um, you know, we've gone from, you know, work with a lot of large teams to cut back or work with more, um, like the ones of Tuesdays, we're with some large team still. So it's kind of all over the place. Yeah. So it's funny because the call I was just on, um, prior to this call, we were talking about, um, getting clear on identifying who you're like ABC player realtor referral partners are. And, uh, so, and we talked about the ones of Tuesday and one of the exercises was, you know, to have these L.O.s, uh, write down a list of all the referrals, the realtor referrals they got, um, how many volume amount and things like that. And part of the, the discussion was you probably have a lot of ones of Tuesday realtors who are just sending you the casual random deal here and there. And as you, I'm sure no being in this industry long enough, there's the conversation on, you know, going deep versus wide and, right, kind of, um, having more partnerships, right, with, quote, producing, so I'm curious like, how do you manage the ones of Tuesday, right? That's kind of a wider net of a bunch of cats, sort of, we got to herd, right? Yeah. We have, um, I have a, well, a system I use, uh, Jungo is my CRM, so I've been there, have a reminder for myself to make sure I remember to check in. Um, we also have drip campaigns that they're on and those kind of things, um, for realtors that I work with on a regular basis that maybe don't do a ton of volumes still. Um, I usually try to schedule once a month meeting with them. While they're here with me, kind of doing, I'm just kind of like a coaching call, um, or coaching meeting, you know, they're coaching me and I'm coaching them at the same time, um, you know, how can we work better together? Um, and we usually schedule a meeting for the very next, uh, you know, next month, right away as well. So that seems to work really well for me to go stay in touch with people. So how many realtors do you put on that program where you're trying to meet with them once a month? I mean, right now there's probably about 25 listed there currently. Um, you know, there's, I kind of did hit a reset button on, uh, and cleared it all fall just at the end of this year and said, um, you know, I'm going to kind of start everybody fresh again and make sure that I get everybody, you know, back, uh, back to make sure that they know about all of our technology that we have, um, a lot of drip campaigns that we have teaches them about, you know, what's good about working with our company and my team? And, um, you know, some people have been working with and I haven't told them everything because it's, you know, maybe forgot. So what's, what's the main focus then of that, of that meeting when you do meet with them? Is it, you know, all about you or like, you know, what are you trying to accomplish there? No, really, I want to get to know them. Um, I want to get to know them and I want to get to know like where their pain points are and, um, and how we, how we can help, um, I used to want to know how they wanted everything and I used to try to cater ourself in a team, but that's a most impossible. Like, so you work with 25, 30 people, like, I realized really quickly that I can't have 25 or 30 different ways that we're going to operate as a team, so effective and efficient. Right. Um, so a lot of that's teaching them how we prefer, you know, for them to work with us. Of course, there's lots of different options, but also to really just get to know them, make sure they're fit for us, fit for our team, um, and then we're, uh, going to be able to work together in a partnership. So these meetings then, I, maybe I was incorrect in assuming, um, who, who you are scheduling these meetings with, um, in that you might like try and meet the, uh, have a repeat, meet agents over and over again every single month or is this kind of a vetting process? Some, how many are you trying to meet with repeatedly? How many do that kind of stuff? Um, I mean, the repeated ones, I'm going to continue meeting with them once a month, whether it, you know, for some people, it's, I've worked for a long time in our meetings of pedicure or our meetings, right? So it's really become friendship, social, all that. Yeah. For some people that say I want to come in, I need to update on my 50 leads and, you know, so everyone has a different, uh, use of their time of how they, you know, how they want to use it. Usually, depending on how long our relationship has been intact. Right. Um, but yeah, it's usually the same rivers over and over again. Um, also, um, you know, as I meet new agents, usually naturally through the transactions. So whether it's, uh, an agent refers me and says, oh, you have to work with my co-worker. They're great. You guys are going to be a good match or whether it's, um, you know, they have to do the listing agent and, you know, the transaction went well and I really enjoyed working with them, then we're kind of reaching out from there. I'm not doing a lot of co, you know, co-calling a big, long list of real estate agents. Right. So if I heard you correctly then, if you have roughly 25 agents, right, that send you business at various levels and frequency, are you then essentially having 25 agent meetings a month? Well, not necessarily 25 a month because some of them, you know, kind of fall off the face. But like, yeah, I might have three or four of them a day, uh, depending on who's coming in, the bigger teams that we work with, like just last week, I had a meeting with six villagers all at the same time. So sometimes it might be going to their office meeting and, um, presenting to them about, you know, a new program or the new technology that came out, um, because you're their partner. Yes, that's, that's, that's the word right there is that I, we want to work with people who we're going to be a partner with. Right. Um, so that's interesting. Let's talk about that for a second. How do you have that discussion? When is it, when do you typically try and have that partner discussion? And maybe what does that sound like? I probably have it right away, um, and maybe it's too thin. But, um, a lot of times I tell people like, this is their team. This is what we have to offer. You know, I've already heard about, you know, how they like things to go. And I tell them that like, I would like to partnership, I'd like to partner with you. I would like to work together to help you meet your goals, um, you know, but do you, let me interrupt for a second, my apologies. But do you have any criteria? Do you do any vetting of them? Um, how do you decide who you want to partner with? I do not. And I've been told a lot of times that I should. I should be a little bit more. Come on, come on. Right. Um, the, well, but it's more personality. Like, um, it's 100% for me. Are we a match? Like, yeah, I love you. Do I want to work with you? Do I want to see you in my office once a month or even more? I want to talk to you on the phone every day. You know, you're an energy vampire. Yes. Yeah. And so that's really what it comes down to is personality and making sure that, you know, they're going to be a good fit that, you know, my lone partners aren't going to, you know, cringe when the phone rings. There's no, it's not so much about, you know, having a minimum production criteria for you. No, what I've actually found is that for a lot of people who don't have their production, um, by working with us, the production increases. I'm sorry. We have a lot of agents that, you know, it's kind of fun. I'm coaching them and telling them, you know, showing them our technology and how it can help to increase their. Okay. All right. So you've said a couple of things that maybe want to ask more. You said, help them increase production. Show them our technology. You loosely referred to an agent asking, hey, what's up with my 50 leads? How are you doing these? How are you helping an agent grow their business? What is this secret technology? Well, I thought it's not really a secret. I think everybody uses, you know, everything's always the same. But so we have our phone app. So we have the co-branded phone app. We use our simple Nexus and so sharing the phone app and using the co-branded phone app that really frees up the agent a lot in terms of them being able to apply right there, teaching, um, what most of what we do is educating, right? So we're teaching the client how to run their numbers ahead of time so they haven't wasted the agent's time, which leaves them more time to be, you know, selling other people. You know, talking to them or we do education seminars. So one way we do education seminars here where they can bring their clients in here. Usually, everything we do is basically through the CRM. So we're using, we document everything we do and then have a, you know, we close with you. We're going to invite you to four events a year. We're going to be in front of you when you call me back up. I'm going to refer, and you're, I'm going to refer the lead that you're just giving back to the agent that you are working with. Um, you know, so it's really just kind of tracking and, um, yeah. So how do you, uh, if I sound like I'm repeating myself, I want to get, I'm, what may not know about me is I like to get very specific, right? Sure. Um, how do you use the phrase help an agent grow their business? I heard that example there. You refer the agent back, but I mean, like on the front end, let's say you close the transaction with a, with a realtor, you know that you want to partner with them for your reasons. How do you then move that relationship forward? Um, one thing is is at the end of the closing. Um, I get a video from the customer. Um, you were asking earlier if I'm big on social media. So yeah, so we get a video from the customer, and we try to share that out on social media with both me and the agent. Let me ask you, how do you capture that video? Are you just putting the phone in front of them at the closing table? Or what are you doing? Yeah, literally. It's just hey, um, would you mind telling us about how you, uh, mm-hmm, how the transaction works? I do like it. Tell us about your experience, right? How was your experience with, yeah, with me and realtor X, right? And they start. And a lot of times, um, they end up in tears. Um, and when you have an emotional person who they, you know, you've really helped them, um, you know, it's great. And I think that, you know, I think just helping agents to realize, like, doing small little things like that have a big impact. Um, so you're going to capture that video. And then the hope is they're going to mention the agent as well, because it's part of the team. But um, then of course you're going to share that video with the agent. They're going to be blown away. Yeah, I would share it with those meetings. They'll get tagged, open it. And then, you know, I was going to ask you, where do you share your, uh, Facebook, your business page or where? Um, so I tend to share my stuff from my personal page. I'm marketing people if I send them the app, then they put it or send them the video, then they put it on our business page. Uh, sometimes I send it to the agent and they share it, you know, so it really just depends on where I'm sitting, where the closing was and how I can get on there the quickest. Um, so, um, yeah. Okay. No, I like that. Sorry, oops, sorry. One of your videos started to play. Uh, this is the video that came up, by the way, calling all millennials. Let's go buy a house. Yeah. So that one, I think is, I think that that's just, uh, you know, a normal little video that was like, you know, that's not the testimonial video. No, no, but um, it's an example of your active on social, it's a video. It got a couple hundred views and it's pretty cool. It's done well. Yeah. Well, thank you for sure. So how much video are you doing? What other types of video do you do? Um, I mean, that's basically, I'm trying to get more in a video. That's one of my goals. I just did my goal setting for this year and one of my goals to do the videos at each spot. Um, sure, milestones. Yeah, right. And, um, and also those would go out automatically through your CRM. Yep. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then also to have the question and answers. I listen, I listen to myself sometimes. And then also I learn partners on like, man, we say the same thing every day. Right, right. Um, so the education pieces, uh, I'd be like, there's a video for that. Yeah, yeah. Well, if you want to learn more about that, then yeah. No, love it. Yeah. And so those who might go on your website or your business page or something. Yeah, and even the head will just go on the, the phone app that we have, the phone apps has been really popular. So yeah, I've heard good things about that phone app, but I'm trying to remember if I had them on in the past. If not, I'll have to. Yeah. Um, okay, you mentioned something here. I'm looking at my notes from the last time we chatted, which is, um, uh, and you did allude to it earlier in our conversation. But I have written down with, with quotes, clean house. Biggest teams not a fit anymore. I wanted to unpack that a bit as to why. Because a lot of people are thinking like, how am I going to grow my realtor? I'm going to go work with teams. Tell us what are we doing? I think that like, like, right now we're working with one large team. And it's going great. Our vision is the same. Um, you know, for some of the larger teams that I worked with in the past, like they had multiple lenders that they were working with. And, you know, like for me, a big thing is partnership. And like, I want to grow something together. And it's hard to do that when, you know, there's all these different lenders that are also involved. No, not that we have to be exclusive with any person. Because you really can't get this in, you know, but, you know, I want to have somebody that we really have a good partnership with. Um, you know, sometimes, um, even looking back at like, um, the costs for things. Like I think we talked last time about a little bit about Zillow. Yep. And, you know, I mean, you know, I let my model change where I was listening to each real estate agent and saying, what do you want? Oh, you want this cool. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. And before I knew it, I'd spend a lot of money on Zillow and not really getting a good return on it. Um, and so I had to cut that out. And, um, so you had to approach the agents and say this doesn't work anymore? Yeah, it was, it was actually a cool conversation. Because for some of them, they're like, you're right. Number, you know, we're looking at these numbers together. And, you know, for some cool, they're like, yeah, you're right. Now, see, that right there is a lesson for listeners. The sheer fact that you could have that conversation and that the agent, you both looked at the numbers and that he or she agreed instead of an agent what often say, well, if you're not going to pay for my Zillow leads, somebody else is, that is not a partnership. That's right. Yeah. And so the fact that the agent agreed to do that with you means you, um, obviously had a great relationship and you still work together? Yep. We do. Yeah. And then you're saving some money. So we do. Yeah, and it's good. And like, I'm, you know, I think we drop down from, you know, a lot to, maybe we're doing like a hundred dollars or something. Wow. Very minimal team time. And, you know, and yeah, we do all kinds of different stuff together. Not the cost money, but like our value is in the team and in the customer service and the repeat business that you're going to get when you work with us. So that's kind of more. So all right, that leads me to the question. And a lot of like my interview style is like, we'll, we'll talk about something that'll open up a file in my head and be like, oh, ask this question. What you just said there makes me think about how you do articulate your value proposition, right? Kind of early in that relationship process. And I asked that in the context of relevant to the Zillow thing is that I've feedback, I've been given in the past is that these, quote, top producers, right? The closing on time, you know, incredible service customer experience that those agents say, well, yeah, dude, those are the basics, right? I need you to help me. No, I mean, so what do you say to that? Well, I mean, for me, it's like doing the basis and doing them right is really what it comes down to. I think that, you know, one of the teams that we just again working with, you know, they were like, yeah, I know that I'm losing a lot working with some other lenders because they're not willing to sometimes do the, the hand holding or looking at the maybe a little bit harder to file or give the credit suggestions. So for most people, it's like, when I walk in, I'm like, hey, I'm the social worker of mortgages, right? I'm here to actually help people. You're gonna brand that. Yeah, I should brand it. And it really is like, we're looking at what are their goals? What can we do? I did. I mean, if I go back five years ago, I was swamped running around in circles just trying to help people that didn't want to be helped. So I had to make a lot of changes to my model. I was like, to define what does it mean if you're needs some credit help? What does that look like and how do I make sure I'm not wasting my time working with someone who's never going to get there or who's not serious about it? So we had to put, you know, some parameters on that. But I think that's one of the really big things is that we're going to help, we're creative, we know all the grant programs, you know, we just really knowledgeable in everything that there is there to offer. So we're going to close a lot more loans than maybe the next place is, which makes some more money as well. So you have a reputation of somebody who can get things done and as a person of their word. If we can't get it done, they say no one can get it done. But, or I'm at least going to point it in the right direction of someone who can. So, you know, like there's some weird things that, you know, I just had to give one way that was like the, you know, modular home that had been moved and, you know, they thought they, you know, like, yeah. And like, so there's nothing that I can't do, but I'm still going to at least point in the right direction. Not a miracle worker, you're a social worker. There you go, you got it, you got it, yeah, yeah, we get it, we'll get it done. And yeah, we're going to keep our word no matter what, yeah. So tell me a little bit about your team in terms of, are you the primary or only originator? Yeah, well, as of until like two months ago. So, yeah, so for gosh, I guess we've had a team now for six years. So, it's always been me as a loan officer. I have a licensed loan partner. Actually, and now I have three loan partners. One of them, the Spanish speaking. And I just recently brought on a loan officer who's doing half loan officer and then half loan partner. So, half the stuff that he's bringing in his own business. And my job is to make the phone ring, bring the clients in, make it rain. Their job is to do all the, I mean stuff, yeah, I don't want to do it. Stuff that makes you look good. Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. And I have this jotted down from our last conversation in terms of your process. Like, let's say you get a referral from an agent. Somebody who is inquiring about buying just kind of quickly walk us through because people are really curious about when you have loan partners, who owns what and where you bowing it out. Yeah, so we've obviously changed his own things constantly. So we've changed that quite often. But right now, I think we've got it pretty good. So, Lee comes in. I've got me and I've got my guy, his name's Charlie, but he's kind of a front end with me. So, if I'm on the phone, he's going to start taking some basic information until he gets them over to me or we're sending him the phone app or the link to do the online application. Our job is just to quickly vet and make sure, like, is this, is this a lead that we want our loan partners to be spending time on? So, you know, if it's below a certain credit score, we're done with it, you know, or if they say, well, I haven't had a job in four years, you know, okay, well, you know, like you said, not a miracle worker. Right. So, we're just kind of just making sure that the loan partner is spending time with they should, as soon as that's been determined, we send a list of documents that we need. So, we really do the really big on doing the real true pre-approval, not a pre-qual, ask them for all their documents. One of the things that's really worked for us is, when we send a needs list, I copy my loan partner, they immediately respond with an intro and a coupon that says, $100 dollars off if you get your documents in the V within 24 hours. Oh my gosh, I love that. And it works. It's great. But, I mean, $100 dollars off of what no one ever asks, but, you know, we do whom $100 dollars off of our, you know, origination fee. But the point is, is that they get their documents in clicker. Yeah, I mean, truth is, it could be anything. It could be like a gift card or something. It could be anything. I don't, maybe, maybe not. I don't know if that's an expert, but you know. Yeah, exactly. So, then the loan partners, we're viewing everything and make it your income assets and all that's right. For my license loan partners, a lot of times, they're doing the structuring. Some of my loan partners are bringing it back to me to structure. And then we, and then once they're pre-approved, we reach out to them once a week. So, our pre-approval reach out day is every Thursday. Just to say, hey, are you going to be out shopping this weekend? And if you are, you know, do you know, which house and kind of help get you a letter or update docs or answer questions. And then hopefully they're under contract. Who's doing loan status updates with the agents? So, the loan status are the loan partners as well right now. And that's one of the things we're getting ready to start doing video. So, if they're in process, like actually under contract, Monday and Tuesday is our day for that. So, you know, we're trying to get an update from our process from Monday morning, first thing. And then, you know, whether it's Monday afternoon, depending on how much stuff piled up over the weekend for you. But by Tuesday, you've gotten a video out to the entire team, letting them know the status update on the file. And we're getting ready to start that. We made that with the loan off. I just brought in that's what he used to do. And I was like, I love that. So, is that a specific video for every file? Yep. Literally, he's just, he sits there. And so, each loan partner, we just, you know, let's say they're working on five, seven files, whatever it is. And they're just, hey, team, just wanted to give you an update. It could be me giving the update a certain spot. That's kind of one thing we're trying to figure out. It's better for me to be, but I can't do, I'm not going to do every week to do 30, 40 videos. That's just crazy, right? So, how are those videos being sent? Bomb bomb is what we're using right now. Got it, got it. And those would be like a desktop computer, whatever, over email versus a mobile phone. Okay. Yes, yes. I love that. That's good. It's good personal connection there, you know, with the video. And it stands out. Not many people are, it still blows my mind. How many, how many times I hear that loan officers don't do status updates? It sounds like that'd be impossible today to survive. We were talking about that today. It's so fine. Like, things that now are just like, second nature to me, like, I can't imagine not doing it. They're showing people not doing them. And it's right. It's simple things like that. It's not rocket science. No, it is not. Oh, I was going to ask you, and of course, I did not prep you for most of these questions. So, I appreciate your flexibility. But when I hear you talk, right, I'm starting to, you clearly know your business really well. I'm curious if you have a sense of, I'm going to ask you about, like, conversion numbers. And if you don't know, that's fine, because, right? But I'm curious if you have a sense of, like, what your app to funding conversion ratio is, for one example, or other numbers you might know, you want to share? So, it's funny, is that I am not a numbers person. I'm sure. I'm correct. So, I'm literally the year today, where I was meeting going over the P&L, and I like, so how's the summer looking? And I'm like, I'll know when you send me my list at the end of the month. So, I'm not a numbers person. I have no idea that's one of the things I probably should work on. I just, I'm a hard worker. Right. Just care of itself. And, yeah, I've never had the count. And, yeah. Well, let's put it this way. You're not dissatisfied with the number of people you're converting. No, I'm not. Right, right. That's right. I should have thought of that advance. You're social worker, not an engineer. Yeah, yeah. You probably have a high eye on your dis profile, right? Yeah, 99, I and a 99 C. All right, there we go. I'm sorry, yes. It's good to say, it's probably a 99 eye to 99 S. Do you know where your D is? Well, the very first time that I think I did, I think it was a, I don't, it was low. It was no judgment. It was almost nothing. I can't remember. Because I'm not a numbers person, I can't remember. I know the chart, it was really low. The other two were 99. The red was really low. The green was, yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's awesome. It just goes to show you, right? Like, there is no one profile for success as an originator. I think, you know, if I were to be a sumptive, obviously one of the reasons why you're successful is you keep using the word, you know, social worker for orgages that we call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you care about people. That's it. You know, and that shows up differently, for sure. That's cool. What are some of the other things real quick? I know we're running out of time. That you're planning on doing differently. Anything new, anything kind of big sitting there? I mean, I think that the biggest thing is really the videos. You know, I'm starting to do some education in the county. The couple of the libraries would have reached out to me and asked me if I would do some training sessions. You know, sort of like the phone's ringing inward instead of me reaching outward, which is, you know, only took 15 years. Pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, only 13 years, only 15 years. But now, I mean, there's, you know, right now, I feel like, you know, it's not broken. Not trying to fix the, you know, you have a good quality of life. Give us a sense of like how many hours a week. Well, now I have a good quality of life. All right, before we go back a couple of years. Yeah. Is that because you built a team? Yeah, I built the team and then I built a team and then my team broke and then I went to, oh boy, I have to like I was working crazy again. And now I've got a good solid team. And, you know, I, one of the things that I did that, I think it's the smartest thing I ever did is right now, I'm sitting in an office, but this is not where I sit every day. I, I sit in here whenever I have meetings. But I moved myself out into the pit and I sit in the pit and I know what's going on at all times. So I'm out there making my realtor calls and doing what I, you know, my tests for the day, but I'm out there with everyone else. One of the things I lost touch with my team and when it broke, originally. But right now I'm working, you know, 40 hours, 45 hours. And I feel like in this business, that's great. I work hard, but I play harder. I'm going a lot, vacation a lot, taking extended weekends here and there. Yeah, it's a good life. When did you, we kind of closed down on this, but I don't know how far we have to go to answer this, but I'm trying to get the context of when you hired your first assistant, like how far in your career and what advice you might have. It was probably about, she's eight years ago. It was the very first person I ever started working with. And he makes sure they're knowledgeable. I mean, he knew more than I did. He was, he's been the business 30 plus years. He still works with me. And he kind of, he called my eyes. Like he knows everything. He's like that man behind the little, you know, Kurt. And, you know, so we've grown together. Make sure that you're going to get along, that there's a mutual respect for each other. And yeah, let me ask you this. Would you, knowing what you know now, would you have hired sooner? Yeah, well, I actually tried, it's funny because I tried to. I went to my boss at the time. We'll mention the company where I was working. I said, hey, I really need an assistant because I wasn't willing to give up on my customer service. Like, you know, I want to give the customer the service. She said, you're not closing enough yet. And so I can't close more, unless I get an assistant. I said, I'll pay for him. She said, no. So then we left, both of us. And now I sit where I sit now with all my different assistants and helpers. You know, sometimes I wonder if she even knows what I'm doing now. And it's like, man, I can kick myself in the butt for not. That is the catch 22 that often the management has. You know, they'll, you're not doing enough, quote, but it's like, how am I ever going to grow if I don't free myself up? Yeah. And I was always willing to put my money where my mouth was, that I was willing to, oh, you know, I don't need to make quite as much so I can show you what's going to happen. Yeah, make it up in volume. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Awesome. Well, this is a lot of good lessons today. I really appreciate the conversation. I know you're busy. And where, if people do want to reach out to you, where do you want to send them? Like social page or where do you want to go? Yeah. You can get me going to social. It does any well fun, what Maryland for Facebook and direct mortgage loans. So, all right, we'll put links in the show notes for sure to your Facebook page and maybe your website as well. But once again, Amy, thank you so much for being the social worker of mortgages. I love it. I'm going to, I'm going to definitely have to, you know, trademark that one. I want to see that branding. And then there's a meaning behind it. Let me tell you what that means. You know what I mean? I think that actually has some good play for you. So, and listeners, you know, as always, we appreciate you tuning in. If you like this episode, please leave us a review. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey, guys, what's up? 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