Ep #17: Co-Marketing Best Practices with Total Expert

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing. Hey, listeners, Jeff Zimfer, your host for Mortgage Marketing Radio. Thanks for tuning in to this week's show. And without further ado, let me get into who my special guest is this week. None other than Joe Wellu, he's a real estate industry expert and entrepreneur, founder of Total Expert. Total Expert is a software platform for the real estate mortgage industry. And what's great about Total Expert, which you're going to hear through today's show, is if you ever wanted to really attract top producing real estate agents and all of us talk about, hey, become a value-added partner, become a thought leader, share valuable content and resources that helps the agent be more successful in their business, and that's all true and well. And that's a great place to start, but what happens next, right? What's next? That's exactly where Total Expert comes in, because Total Expert has delivered the industry's first enterprise-grade co-marketing platform for lenders and real estate agents to collaborate and deploy marketing across the entire customer life cycle. So whether it's capturing and converting leads from Zillow, nurturing them through your CRM, doing open houses, getting known in your local community, you name it, Total Expert is the platform, lots of great tools in there for you to utilize to benefit yourself when it comes to attracting and capturing real estate agents and becoming a true value-added partner and member of their team instead of just a vendor. So I couldn't be more excited than to bring Joe Wellu, the CEO and founder of Total Expert to this week's episode. I encourage you to take notes, listen closely, check out the resources and the show notes. There's a value-added download you get just by listening today, which is a daily action plan for you to more effectively partner with real estate agents. So hope you enjoy it. And by the way, if you like in these episodes, make sure you're subscribed on YouTube, YouTube iTunes, so that you don't miss another show. So without further ado, let's transition right into my special guest, Joe Wellu. Hey Joe, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks Jeff, happy to be here. It's a pleasure to have you. It's a topic that has been on my mind for quite a while, and I know it's on the minds of lots of our listeners as well, and that is co-marketing. So in the intro, I share with listeners kind of an overall summary of what Total Expert is and what it's all about. But if you wouldn't mind maybe the quick background on how you got into this business, because I know you have a background in real estate and all that, but what kind of brought you to where you're at today with Total Expert? Sure. So we started the company about five years ago, and we started out building really end-user-focused individual agent, individual Luna officer tool sets. And as we evolved, we realized that there was a lot bigger things happening in the space. And the biggest piece that we saw changing was the way lenders and agents were working together, the way those value propositions were happening and the MSAs and all of that stuff kind of shaking out. We looked at it and felt there was really an opportunity to build an enterprise user platform that would both allow the organizations, the checks and balances and controls that they need, and also really the sizzle to the end user, the Luna officers and the agents themselves. So we've really evolved and iterated pretty rapidly, and it just spent a lot of time talking to our users, talking to our customers and finding out what they want, and so that's really led us to where we are today. Yeah, so let's talk about that, what they really want. At the end of the day, on your blog, I'm reading, you have a headline that says real estate agents want better co-marketing relationships. So what does that mean? What have you discovered? What are they looking for? Yeah, so I think a lot of agents are starting to realize that partnering with somebody that is like-minded, that has the same level of customer service, that values the experience given to the consumer. I think agents are, in fact, we've seen it really become an important component of who they end up co-marketing with as that customer experience. The web and everything really reduces the margin for error that any professional has now, and it's so easy for somebody to pull the plug and go work with somebody else, both on the mortgage side and on the real estate side. So really like-minded partnerships, it's not as much about the money, it's not as much about lead flow back and forth. Of course, it's still about doing more business, but ultimately we see more and more people focused on making sure there's a really smooth and consistent customer experience. Okay, so let's take this word co-marketing. That has different meanings to different people. Let's unpack that a little bit. What in your eyes is co-marketing, ideally? Yeah, so co-marketing is actually a pretty broad term. People tend to utilize it just in line with real estate agents and loan officers, but it's actually deeper than that. Co-marketing can essentially be any two companies or two brands or two professionals that are let or like-minded and are wanting to target the same consumer, the same customer. That's on a basic level what co-marketing is, and then of course you get into how are the regulations set up and what not. There's certainly very, very specific rules around because the original state space is heavily regulated. You've got to follow some certain rules and I think that's where a lot of people get confused. Right, and obviously when people mention co-marketing, sometimes hair stand up on the back of the neck because they're like, oh gosh, respawn, CFPB cracking down and as you alluded to earlier, the MSAs are kind of being torn up and thrown away. I think maybe for those listeners, most of the loan officers, they're sitting there listening to this and they're saying, okay, co-marketing, the whole in-house lender thing, I don't know, maybe kind of going away, we don't really capture a lot of business 20% typically that way. So, from your perspective, right, total expert, what do you guys see as the best methods for co-marketing and maybe some actual use case examples? Yeah, for sure. Number one, we always recommend that you need to tailor the approach based on your personal business and how, where you focus, for example, if you're focusing in a jumbo market versus an FHA market, you're going to be working with certainly different types of agents with different types of needs and goals and what they're doing. So, first of all, understand exactly who you're working with and who you're targeting. From a co-marketing perspective, as a loan officer, the smartest thing that you can do is look to align yourself and your brand alongside listing agents and people that are listing agents are controlling the inventory in the market. That's truly the point of sale. And so, you want to partner with those listing agents and some of the most effective things that we see happening in the marketplace, we see people doing targeted neighborhood mailings, really getting out in the community, doing events, mailing consistently, really to certain areas. But it's really that blend of getting out and getting visible in the communities. And that's a combination of open houses, events, sponsorships of other community type things that are going on, certainly maybe some advertising. We've seen people do billboards together. We've got a customer that actually, they split the cost of a billboard on a major area. So it doesn't have to be a one size fits all. It's really unique to the market that you're in and the type of agent and the type of loan officer that you're talking about. What I know for certain is that it always works best when the goals and really the things are aligned accordingly. So both people are aligned at what they're trying to accomplish. Yeah. And do you have any advice for, like you said, one of the keys is making sure you have like-minded, right, people, and sometimes that's a challenge with agents and fellows. Any advice around that, like-minded, how do we ensure we've got the right partner on the board? That's a great question. So what we, in some of the coaching and training that we've had the opportunity to do with some really high quality top-notch producers out there and working with them and finding out what works. And what we noticed that the end result, the experience that you have, is always directly related to the quality of questions that you're asking up front and on an ongoing basis. And what I mean by that is when you're starting to go into a relationship, let's say they want you to do a Zillow buy or they want to do a mailing together, you have to be willing as a loan officer to ask really good quality and specific questions. And what are they- what are they hoping to gain out of the partnership? Is this a long-term play for them or are they just looking to extract a few dollars from you? If it's just about extracting money, that's not a good relationship to go into. You want people that are thinking long-term and thinking big. And I think the only way that you can really accurately determine that is if you're asking high quality questions and listening. And not to put you on the spot, but do you have any examples of those high quality questions? Yeah, for sure. For sure. So one of the things that we look at a lot is we have a lot of customers that utilize our platform to track Zillow leads. And one of the things that we'll ask them is, we always recommend the loan officer is asking, how many loan officers are you partnering with? Are you working with four or five different companies and trying to cover 90% of your spend? Or are you doing things in a- what I consider to be in some of this personal opinion depending on who you talk to? But in a more appropriate way to where you're splitting things up and you're doing it in a proportional basis, agents that are simply about covering every cent of expense they can get by with, that's not a great partnership. It just never works. When they're trying to align with three or four different companies and extract and partner on sharing costs on those, that many different people, it just convoluted and it never works. So I always recommend asking that. I always also recommend asking how many listings they carry. We see a, if you take some of the biggest agents in the country and really the people that do the most buy side transactions, there's always a correlation between the amount of buy side transactions they do and the size of the listing inventory. So I want to know upfront, if I'm going in and we're going to partner together, I want to know immediately how many listings that agent or team, it doesn't have to be precise. But on average, how many listings do you guys carry and if they don't have any listings, I'm not probably wanting to invest in much money alongside that particular agent. There's other things we can do. We can do some open houses together. We can set up some programs to really do, first home buyer, home buyer seminars, things like that. But you don't necessarily have to go out and invest money right away with an agent that doesn't have listing inventory. So to return on that investment, the likelihood of capturing buyers is just simply less. Yeah, absolutely. It's all about qualifying up front instead of hopping into bed too quickly, right? That's absolutely correct. So I'm putting myself, obviously, loan officers are listening to this as I keep eluding to. And so I think knowing what total expert does from a 30,000-foot view level, maybe we could drill down a little bit and talk about some of the specific channels online offline that you can allow loan officers to co-market with with. Sure. Sure. Absolutely. So we cover both digital and print media and a pretty broad level, actually. We have a certain part of our platform. We've got some patent pending technology inside of our platform that allows mortgage company or our bank to determine what the pro-rata space is on any given marketing asset. So they can upload a digital file and this could be of a billboard, this could be of a newspaper ad, really anything that could be an print ad or really even a digital ad. So if it's a landing page, if it's not a landing page that's hosted on our platform and it's hosted on another platform, for example, they just want to determine the pro-rata spend or the pro-rata expense. They can do that through systems. So it really gives them a broad range of co-marketing that they can do. And let me just clarify something specifically regarding what I mean by pro-rata share. People can co-market together, realtors and loan officers can co-market together, but each person has to pay their proportional share. Also known as paying a pro-rata share of brand space. And so our tool allows that. What can be deployed directly through our system? We can deploy flyers and postcards. We're connected to be able to fulfill direct mailings, neighborhood mailings, landing pages, single property websites. We've got an open house tool that's a sign-in form that works digitally for open houses. And then we've got some, we connect directly to Zellow or Zellotek partner. They're a great partner of ours, and we connect directly to them so that in segments of the country to where those leads are working and converting, and we always recommend agents and loan officers track that and spend their money with what's working and do less of what's not. But we're connected directly to Zellow, so if they're buying leads together, they can collaborate on those leads. So we really cover a pretty broad spectrum. And I would say we tend to lean towards the side of helping them with not just capturing and aggregating leads, because we can connect to any lead source they have, but also the branding side. And being targeted in your community, getting that brand out there, if you have what we call a mega brand, if you work with a large lender that has a strong brand in your local community, or even if you don't, and you want to partner with an agent that has a strong brand, that can play into it as well. But you want to leverage that brand and get recognition. Well, it could go either way, right? If the loan officer is, let's say, doesn't have that well-known household name brand, but the realtor does, there's that intrinsic benefit there. Absolutely. So okay, so I'm looking at your site here, as you mentioned, you got an open house tool automation. One of the things I'll ask you is CRM. So automated open house lead capture and follow up directly from your CRM. So you guys have a CRM built in as well? Yeah, we do. We did not start out with trying to be a CRM company. And we built out some really basic lead management tools. And we have evolved and iterated to a point where we have several very large customers that are implementing our solution as an enterprise level CRM. It's very, very customizable, so they can configure it and add the workflows and things like that that they want and get the reporting structures they need. So we do have a full CRM out of the box, they can connect it to lead sources and collaborate and follow up and do drip campaigns and those types of things. But it's actually a lot more powerful than that because we can connect to really internal systems and things like that. So a question, I'm sure people are wondering, you've gotten obviously, what about integrating to third-party CRMs? Is that also available? Yeah, it is actually. We will connect and pull data and push data into anybody's third-party sites that are out there as long as they allow it. In fact, we've got customers that have their own proprietary CRMs and they want to just utilize our engine strictly for co-marketing, which is totally fine with us. We solve that need really well. And so all the co-marketing stuff originates, starts and gets captured inside of our system and dashboard. And that data can be moved right over into their system of record that they're used to using. So the other vendor, of course, has to be willing to connect VA API, but we've yet to find somebody that's not willing to do that. Yeah, very interesting. That's powerful to do it either way. Okay, so I like what I hear, right, I'm a more professional. I want to differentiate myself amongst the other LOs out there. I want to provide value to my agent relationships. How would I package this up and enter a conversation or kind of present? And I like the title Total Expert, right? I think that relates to what you're trying to equip them to do. But how would I essentially present this to a realtor? Yeah, so it, again, depends on the scenario and the situation. We are very much into thought leadership and teaching. Our tool set really puts all the pieces and gives you a lot of flexibility. So what we always recommend, we've got a presentation or alongside of open houses and how to really increase your business just on open houses. And that's a lunch and learn type of presentation that a loan officer can do. And as a part of that presentation, they can get connected with a free co-marketing profile inside Total Expert and start working together. So it's just a great, that's a great strategy that we have followed is doing educational type things instead of trying to sell, quote unquote, sell them on something. We have a series of really three, four different webinars that we've done and we're working with some of the companies that are customers of ours, packaging those into 20, 30 minute lunch and learns to where if you've got a big franchise, real estate office, maybe 30, 50, 100, 200 agents there. You call the broker and say, I'd like to teach a 20 or 30 minute course on open houses. And I tell you they love that because the more and more training their people can get without them having to put effort into it, it's just a win-win. So generally you'll get an audience and that tends to be one of the best strategies. If it's somebody that you know and you've been working with them, one of the things that I always like to suggest is saying, hey, you've got lots and lots of leads flowing kinds of different directions and you're not keeping them all in one place. Why don't we look at centralizing everything and actually helping you track what's working? Do more of what's working and less of what's not. So that's a conversation you can have with the top producer, somebody that you know. Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned that because before we started the recording, we were talking about a mutual loan officer we have in common, Michael Stellar out of Colorado. Yeah. And one of the things I do, you may or may not be aware of, is actually do some done-for-you-power points for loan officers and Michael had mentioned to me, hey Jeff, you need to put one together on database marketing that he can teach a lunch and learn to agents. And what that made me think of what you just said right there is, you know, you got leads all over the place and that seems to be one of the recurring themes. L.O.'s are giving feedback on is that, look, these agents aren't that great at managing their data. They're terrible at it. I was for a long time and had a lot of successes in agent, but I was really terrible at that part of the process and we could have been a lot more profitable. Had we earlier in my career, had we had systems and became organized and the hardest part is just deciding to do something and getting it set up. We handle a lot of that for the agents when they start working together and they're going to put everything in our system, we'll actually work with them and getting all their data in one place. It just helps if you can simplify one of the most powerful things you can do in our industry. Both real estate and mortgage side is simplifying focus and bringing all your leads into one place allows you to do that. Well, I think this is interesting because I'm definitely one who preaches adding value and, as you said, educating and teaching and thought leadership. Not only are you becoming a thought leader by aligning yourself with total expert as a loan officer because you can do some of those things, but you're actually now able to deliver on that, which I think has been the struggle for many loan officers is they're like, yeah, that's great to get up there and talk about lead management and increasing your digital conversion and all that, but how am I going to actually deliver the next step? That's the action. Yeah. And that's where you got you are that next step. That's right. That's right. Because it sounds to me, there's like you alluded to a few different things, single property websites, open house tools. You do anything with social media to capture and convert leads there? Did I lose you? Some in a big way over the next six months, but today we certainly do some things on social, all of our single property sites are social ready. You can just click the social icon and it'll post directly into LinkedIn, Twitter and whatnot. If they do a website with us, if the agent does their website through us, then we connect their blog directly to their social channels and that will auto post, they can auto post their blog post simultaneously onto their social outlets. So we're integrated with a couple of different things there on social. Wow. Very cool. All right. So we didn't talk about, and you know, you guys obviously are well established professional company. You've already addressed the compliance question, but it sounds like from the platform management, like you mentioned, the pro rata, right, making sure that people are paying their equal share. Is that how you address any compliance concerns? So the compliance side, we don't dictate policies and procedures for mortgage companies in terms of what they need to do, what we do, wow, we provide them a very flexible framework so that they can allow co marketing to happen at scale and enforce their policies, procedures, approval flows, and those types of things. The reason most co marketing doesn't happen today inside some of the most conservative lenders is it's just really unattainable to think that they could possibly track all the moving parts. What we do is we bring all that together and allow them to do it at scale. So if they allow for say, mailings to happen, they can do the approval request, the work flows, the documented approval processes, and then document and track the payments for each side. So the agent paid their fair share, the loan officer paid their fair share, and they've got a digital recording of that transaction. So we store all of the documentation in the cloud forum so they have enterprise reporting. Wow. What are you typically seeing in terms of who your customers are on the mortgage side? Is it individual LOs? Is it companies? Yeah, mostly today we're dealing with companies either at a branch level and up. We do have a few individual loan officers depending on which configuration they're looking for. But a lot of the reporting and the integration stuff that really makes us incredibly valuable is really done at the branch level and higher. And a lot of the deals we're working on right now is at the enterprise level. So we're going in at corporate and helping them put in play their entire co-marketing strategy. They've got an idea of what they want to do. Where does the engine that executes it? So we certainly have individual loan officers that utilize our product and whatnot, but I would tell you that the majority of what we do is working with the brands at a higher level. And what do you see typically happens once they structure that for their individual loan officers? Is that something that the company, I'm sure it varies, but typically it's a company kind of footing the bill. Are they sharing goods? Yeah, I think it depends on the company. We see both. We have companies that charge the loan officers some kind of a tech fee. Obviously, we do volume-based pricing, so just like every other software company, so the more seats that you buy, the pricing tends to go down. And so we have companies that we see that charge the tech fee and collect that from the loan officers. And then we have companies that I'm guessing they simply pay for it and those loan officers maybe don't make as much money as they do it. Some other companies, but they get a lot more tools paid for for them. I'm not familiar with how the compensation rules work in the mortgage side, but we do see both. Sure. Well, and it's a great point when it comes to recruiting standpoint, give up a few basis points, but help me be more successful, right? Yeah. A hundred percent agree with that. And what's amazing to me is some of the companies that we walk into and I don't pay much, I don't get into the weeds on this too much, but you certainly hear things and you hear well, they're paying X, which is higher than anybody else in the market. And then what we realize is that the loan officers are really running their businesses in a chaotic and disorganized way because they're not utilizing any tools and systems because they just don't want to pay for it, right? So you end up with sort of a mess versus implementing strategy. What we see is really game changing for mortgage companies is when they're providing a marketing coordinator type support function for those loan officers. So keep the loan officers out doing what they do best, which is face to face with their agents, closing business, and then provide that administrative support at a regional branch division level. Right. Absolutely. Just to equip them with the right tools, right? Yeah. Exactly. So you had a recent announcement on your blog, an integration partnership with leading video messaging app bomb bomb. That's right. Yeah. Congrats. Thank you. You're really excited about that. It's a great tool. And can you tell me a little bit about how your users are going to be using that? Sure. Inside our platform, like I mentioned, people can connect our engine to Zillow leads or any other lead source that's out there. And so once those leads flow into our platform, loan officers and agents can send an email directly from our system, both automated emails as well as individual emails and messages from our system direct. And then it catalogs all the correspondence for that particular leader contact. And so bomb bomb, we built it into our product. So they can actually record a quick video message. If you think about how powerful it is to be face to face with a consumer, you know, if you're a loan officer and you know, they're going to shop you on rate really hard online. If you can give them a video and say, Hey, I just want you to know, I'm going to be here every step of the way, making sure that we get you to the closing table in a smooth, smooth as possible. This is just a purely shopping on rate, you're not going to have that personal attention. So it really personalizes and humanizes the experience. And so video for us, our philosophy as a software company is really integrating with what we consider to be best in class products, best in class features. And bomb bomb clearly was at the top of that list for video. So yeah. So it's the full functionality of bomb bomb, meaning you can actually, as you mentioned, made it emails, you can actually schedule your series of personalized videos to go out at a specific cadence using your platform. That's right. And so that's just bundled into your platform, right? That's right. Yeah. It's built right in now. The platform and you connect via, they have a key that you type in. It's an API key that you type in inside their bomb bomb account. We have it under our integration settings. They just type it in and it connects the accounts. Yeah. Listen, in terms of a takeaway here, something that I'm on your website, I'm looking at some of the resources you have, and I haven't talked to you about this before. But I know there's a daily action plan on there to grow your business as a free lender download. I wanted to, if you're okay with that, first of all, put the link to that in the show notes for anybody. But anything you want to highlight in terms of what they would learn or get when they download that? Yeah. So I'm actually not sure which version we have about our site and how to be honest with you. But I would tell you that what we've done with a lot of the content, we've got a lot of content both on our site. We have a lot of content on slideshare. Okay. We link them there. So we've got a lot of presentations there. And then we've got some of our webinars and things like that on YouTube. We have a lot of content around best practices. And what we try to do is we try to work with the very best people that we can find that are succeeding at a high level and learn from them what's working and making sure they of course are okay with us sharing best practices. And we found the more successful the person is, the more willing and actually happy to share they are. Right. You know, it's the people that don't do much business that are sort of have that scarcity mindset that don't want to talk about what they're doing. But the biggest top producers are always really loving to talk about it. So we put a lot of that content out there and people we don't ask anything for it. We just give it all away. Well, yeah. That's a great way to build trust with your audience. So I'll definitely put a link to that in the show notes. That is totalexpertink.com slash lender, dash action, dash plan, but it'll be in the show notes there. All right. So closing out, lots of great stuff happening there for the platform. We've said it bomb bomb. What's on the horizon for you guys as far as next? We've got just a fantastic roadmap for our platform and we could probably do a whole other show. But I'll give you a couple of tidbits. We've got a lot of the the pieces to provide that consumer experience. We've got a front end consumer portal that is in beta testing right now that will will allow the consumer to collaborate with the loan apps for the agent, the total company all in one place. So that's a big part of one of our releases. And we are always iterating the platform for ease of use and functionality. We just did. We completed. We haven't released it yet, but we completed integration with Microsoft 365. We actually released part of our Google integration. So we integrated with Gmail, Google Calendar and part of that part of the first part of that release has already been taken live. So those are some things that we've got in the immediate future. And then we're also looking at doing probably box before the end of the year as an integration. And then we've got a list of just several other best in class products that we're moving quickly. So. Good. Lots of stuff happening there. Yeah. Sure. We can talk about like the title says, total expert all summed up in one solution to really. And I think this is what might take away from this is like we alluded to is it's great you want to add value to agents, you want to become that co-marketing partner. But up until total expert, it's been a very fragmented kind of experience and pretty difficult to present the total solution. But seems like you guys have got it all together. Well, thank you. I appreciate the feedback and I will tell you this. It's been a journey and we're just getting started. So we are we're having fun and we've got just a fantastic team, a great group of investors, which has really allowed us to hire some of the very, very brightest people. And that's that's makes it has made the difference for sure. Absolutely. So how if people want to connect with you personally and how and where would they do that online? Yeah. Email is the best way for for people to connect with me directly. Joe at totalexpertink.com is my direct personal email and I make it a point to answer generally almost every email that comes in I answer personally. So even if it takes me a couple of days, I generally will always get to it. So yeah, feel free. Anybody that's listening to to reach out to me personally. Love to hear about what you're doing in your local markets and we also love suggestions. You know, on things that are missing, missing from the industry and we've actually been able to really improve our product just by listening to the people in the trenches. So absolutely. And you do have a lot of great content out there, whether it's clear slide, you know, on Twitter, people can follow you at totalexpertink. Obviously, your website is totalexpertink.com, correct? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So check it out. Lots of great content. Hillmarketing tips for loan officers. So I would encourage anybody listening to this. You want to better understand how to rise above the noise of track agents and, you know, if you're an individual loan officer, hey, share this podcast with your manager, right? Your production manager, whatever it is to get them, you know, engage with Joe and the team over there to learn more about totalexpert because, you know, today it's all about who has got the better mouse trap, if you will, the more value to add to those agent relationships. You know, we don't have to go on in on Joe. You already know the talk rack is not about rates, services and donuts and all that. That's a minimum. That's the men. That's table stakes. Exactly. So you really got to be, hey, it's funny, years ago, I used to work with a guy named Walter Sanford was a top realtor in the country back then. One house a day, he sold every day for like 16 years straight. And, you know, it came back to this is that he chose to work with and this is, you know, from top producing agents, believe it or not, I know some loan officers questioned this belief. It's like, well, what value am I going to add to an agent or, you know, they don't need help with lead gender or whatever. And the point is, is that, you know, first of all, that's not true and don't make any assumptions like you had shared with Joe, you were an agent before, even top agents still struggle with certain areas of their business. And the real big headline there is, look, if you're not adding value, you really need to become a true business partner is what I'm getting at. That's what Walter Sanford always taught me was like, you know, become a true business partner. A team, an actual member of their team, not a vendor, right, but an actual member of their team. Precisely. Show up. Show up. Be, get out in the offices and the open houses and be a member of the team. That's a great way to say it. Yeah. And, you know, with a platform like Total Expert, you now have a really solid, you know, value proposition that you can bank on, right? You can really get behind not, you know, kind of in a questionable, little off in the dark, stand alone, kind of fun, yeah, we're not a gimmick, right? There were a lot of tools and software out there that's just some, you know, one feature and it's a gimmick, we believe in there's not a one size fits all. You've got to have a flexible platform and everybody has different needs at different points of their career. And so what we've found from the loan answers that we talk with is they can pretty much walk into any real estate company, any real estate office and add value to the relationship in a, of course, a compliant way based on the flexibility of our system. Yeah. No doubt about it. I would feel very proud to walk in there waving the Total Expert flag. We thank you for that and really appreciate the feedback. Yeah. Our pleasure. So again, everybody, thank you for listening. If you like today's episode, make sure you subscribe to it on iTunes. You don't want to miss another one and leave your comments below. Make sure you reach out to Joe, we'll put all the links and resources in the show notes as I said. And thank you very much for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. This has been your host, Jeff Zimffer. We will see you on the next one. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. On more truth in Mortgage Marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. 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