Ep #27: How Velma CRM Helps You Close More Loans

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute. Your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing. Hey, Mortgage Professionals, welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. This is your host, Jeff Zimper. Once again, thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you're getting value out of these podcasts and I tell you what I'm really trying to do is bring knowledge, inspiration, insights, access to tools, resources, people, ideas, and thoughts that are going to help you be more successful in your business. And today we are talking with Velma and we are talking about CRM and marketing automation and all the different things that go into a successful deployment and onboarding of a CRM tool within your organization. So whether you're an individual loan officer, you're in management or senior executive, you obviously probably already have some level of a CRM if you don't have a CRM. You need to get in touch with Velma right away. If you do have a CRM, oftentimes companies are in flux when it comes to CRMs and maybe in the market for changing or looking at alternatives. And Velma is one of the CRMs in the mortgage industry that should be on everybody's short list because they're designed and built for the mortgage industry specifically. So they understand and get our business and they've made a pretty big impact, right? They've been around for over 10 years. They understand the pains and struggles and issues that mortgage company faces when we're trying to be more efficient in our marketing activities. So Velma, there's lots of different things. It's a very robust platform. They're continually adding new features and functionality to it. So whether that's email marketing automation, you want to do print, yes, print, still alive and well, post-closing, gift marketing. The other great thing about Velma is it integrates into your LOS. It also integrates into mortgage coach. So there's some extremely powerful benefits and streamline processes when you can work back and forth between your LOS and your CRM to automate a lot of those marketing opportunities and touch points, whether it's pre-lone transaction during or post-lone closing. They actually even do things such as search engine marketing and web design. And they've been doing it like I said for a long while. I mean, if you look at their website, you can see that they've had with their various campaigns, they've generated over 63 million marketing impressions. That means over 63 million times a piece of content or a message that's been generated on behalf of a client through Velma has been viewed over 340,000 relationships under management and 320 pizzas ordered. No, just kidding. That's actually taken right from their website and that hopefully gives you a sense of the type of humor that Velma likes to take in working with their clients and they definitely are a great bunch of people over at Velma. So today, my special guest is Brent Emler. He's the director of sales and marketing at Velma, a long time veteran of the mortgage industry and senior management executive person at Velma. And I'll tell you what, Brent definitely has seen a lot of CRM's come and go. He's seen a lot of the challenges that take place when companies and individuals are trying to be successful with a new CRM. And so he brings a lot of those insights, best practices, what to look for, what to watch out for, what to really save time and be more efficient with the CRM and really with the number one key to being successful when you're launching and implementing a new CRM tool. So I hope you really get out of today's session what I did, which is a lot of insights and best practices in terms of how are we going to really make a CRM successful and have it fulfill on the promises that most CRMs make but many fail to deliver on. I think Velma, with their experience in the marketplace and with Brent's guidance as you'll soon hear, Velma definitely delivers on the promise of CRM. So with that said, let's transition into this week's show. Hey Brent, welcome to the show. Hey Jeff, yeah, thanks for having me. No, it's my pleasure. And so I've been wanting to get you on here for some time because one of the things that I'm trying to do with this podcast is bring tools and resources to the mortgage community that's going to help them be more effective at the various and multiple roles that are going on for them in the business and it's always changing and technology. So we're going to talk about that. But do me a favor for a moment, just give us a quick bio, who you are, what you do. Yeah, yeah, my name is Brent Emler and I am the director of sales and marketing at zelma.com that's VELMA.com and you know, Velma was born in 2006, Jeff and actually launched an earnest in 2007, just in time for the collapse. So it was the timing was challenging and over the last decade, a lot of things have changed in the CRM space and I'm excited to kind of share some of those thoughts with you and your listeners. Yeah, so that's a great point and so congratulations to you for surviving through that and coming out the other side. And as we know, there's a lot of choices for CRM out there in the marketplace. So I bring up my first question and I'm curious, how are we looking back on that, right? So 2006, 2007, you know, that's about 10 years now and a lot of CRMs have popped up over that time. How are you guys able to survive and rise above and become a pretty eminent choice in the mortgage community today as compared to all the others? What do you think that you guys did through that process during the tough times and even leading up to today that helped you be successful? Yeah, you know, with any small business, it's important that you're able to pivot. Things change, the market changes, you know, what do they say, Jeff? They say the only constant is change and so you really have to be able to go with the flow and restructure what you're doing when things change. And so in 2008, we were designed for individual loan officers originally. In fact, believe it or not, we were designed for individual loan officers to deepen and develop the relationships through print only marketing, which is pretty amazing to think about. We very, very quickly added email, but the idea was, let's provide a very, very easy use system for individual loan officers to add their contacts and to effectively nurture relationships. And it worked out, it worked very, very well for the folks that we onboarded, but then of course the crisis happened and things changed. There was a consolidation in the marketplace generally. And so what we had to pivot to was more of an enterprise model. And so while we still support individual loan officers, our focus is always on making sure that the product is very easy for individual loan officers. We put a lot of our development emphasis on building enterprise level tools. And when we made that switch, things really took off for us and we were able to help a lot more originators and organizations by providing those enterprise level tools. Of course, all of those tools, the goal is to benefit the individual loan officers, but with less reliance on them to initiate things. That's interesting. He's a comment about print. I'm curious today if you have any sense of what percentage, because I know you guys have evolved and we'll dive into that a bit in terms of email and obviously marketing automation and so forth. But any sense of today, what percentage of your users are still kind of using that original focus, if you will, like you had said, on print-related marketing? Yeah, yeah. So it really depends on the organization. A lot of the print marketing that we're doing is the post-close campaigns, the automated post-close. Although we are doing, we do see quite a bit of the just listed, just sold, co-branded post cards, that type of printed activity where you're getting a list of people in a particular neighborhood, and if one of your realtor partners has been successful in selling a house or listing a home in a neighborhood, why not send a postcard, a co-branded postcard to all of the people in that neighborhood? Obviously, we can get some additional business that way. There are some niche things like that, and of course, the post-close. We do still see a lot of loan officers doing personalized birthday cards and thank you cards to realtors, but the predominant medium is email. No question about it. We're doing tens of millions of emails a year, and certainly not that level of print marketing. Interesting. So in terms of email, then what are the types of programs or campaigns that you'd say are most popular within your platform? Well, so the thing that we discovered when we went to a more enterprise model was that for us to deliver big value to these big organizations, we really had to focus a lot of energy on integration with the LLS, with their website solution, lead capture forums. Collecting data is one of the most challenging, not only collecting the data, but also collecting the data and aligning that data to the marketing objectives, the overall marketing objectives. And doing all of that in a way that is completely hands-free for the originator, when we asked originators to change, and this really goes for any software. If you ask a salesperson to change their behavior, you'd better be delivering huge value to them, because otherwise it just becomes a burden and a nuisance. And that's one of the big challenges that CRM has in terms of adoption is asking loan officers to fundamentally change their behavior on a day-to-day basis, and still asking them to do even more work. And while that work may be useful, I equate it to getting a gym membership. And a lot of us will go get a gym membership because we know it's good for us. And we have all these designs on who means great things at the gym and getting fit and all the rest. And a vast majority of people just end up not going. And that's really how CRM, the analogy is, yeah, we all know that if we do a lot of CRM features and we spend a lot of time in there, then we're probably going to get a return on investment. But man, I'm so busy every day. I just don't have time to do that. I don't have time to be thinking of about two weeks, three weeks, you know, six months from now. So our emphasis, our primary emphasis is on automating the things that loan officers use to have to do manually. Yeah, which, that was a long winded answer. No, it was a good one. I love the gym analogy. It's actually, it's actually true. I mean, what you're basically saying there is, and I can relate to this, you know, having been in the loan officer chair for, you know, over seven, eight years, it's got to be, where's the payoff, right? It's like the gym analogy. Why don't I go to the gym and put it on all that sweat, sweat equity and hard work, go to the payoff, right? I'm going to look better, feel better, have more energy. And so it's a similar argument with CRM. And I definitely can appreciate your point about the difficulty of getting that salesperson to pivot. So it leads me to be curious because on the one hand, it's like, you know, this, this, this, it's the character in the stick. You know, hey, there's this proposed payoff. But what have you seen recommendations? Let's just say there's an enterprise listening to this and they're considering a change in their CRM. So what would Velma do to help make that change more easily happen within an organization, right, to make that pivot? Is there anything you guys have learned in the past that you would, that you're a process that you have in an organization when you on board? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a, that's a really good question. And I, and I think, you know, I was just thinking about this, this morning, and, and we talk about it quite a bit. It's that the number one most important thing, whether your listeners are going to buy Velma or any of our competitors. And, and this really extends beyond the mortgage industry. This is CRM in general. And, and I'll tell you a job, I've done a lot of research. And the mortgage industry is not unique in terms of CRM, CRM adoption challenges. I was just reading an article recently, a guy who worked with Salesforce as an add-on service. He'd been involved in over a thousand Salesforce implementations. And almost, almost to accompany, the adoption was less than 20%. And this is Salesforce. This, we're talking about Salesforce, right? I mean, this is the, the billion dollar monster out there. And adoption is less than 20%. And that's frustrating, if you're writing these big checks every month. And, and so, you know, you're asking, what, what can executives do, what can companies do, what can loan officers do, marketing directors, and all the rest? What can they do to improve adoption? I would, I would say that the number one most important thing is for the executives to really buy it, to really buy into what it is that we're trying to accomplish together to identify what the objectives are. And, and to make sure that everybody is agreed on what the objectives are with the product. And, and to make sure that there's a change management process in place. And then all of the department heads understand that this is an important thing that we're doing together. You know, compliance, marketing, sales, IT, everyone has to be on the same page. It has to be, you know, a, a, a, a top-down approach. And I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly, you know, what sort of approach to take, you know, for, for the different individual organizations together. They're all, they're all different, Jeff. You know, we talk to some depository lenders and, and they really want to control everything from the very top. In fact, success for them has nothing to do with loan officers logging in. It has everything, everything to do with impressions. It has everything to do with measuring ROI, with retention loans and lead pull through. And, and that's not the same for, you know, typical independent mortgage banker. They want to see the loan officers logging in and engaging with the product. So, yeah, yes. Oh, that's not so I want to pause there, yes, because what you're talking about is the, you know, key metrics or KPIs, KP, keep performance indicators. And, and I agree getting buy-in from the top executives is key. And I'm going to come back to that. But what do you mean by impressions as being a unique indicator? Oh, yeah. Sorry. That's kind of a, that's a marketing term. The impression impressions are each time an email or a postcard lands in front of a set of eyeballs. Okay. Right. Okay. So, right, CPM, right, it's a customer, some, some we're kind of think. So, they're looking at basically what's the increased exposure they're getting by implementing the various functionality tools of the CRM? Yeah, you know, that's, that's the brand awareness piece. And that's, that's obviously really important. But also beyond that, measuring the effectiveness of those impressions. And so, measuring things, one of the things that we measure is clients coming back. So, if there's a loan already in the system and we send marketing material to that contact and they come back and get another loan six months, 12 months, two years later, that would be considered a retention loan. That is, that is a client that you've retained. And, and there is marketing that's happened to that contact. And therefore, there's a corresponding ROI. Yeah. That obviously makes sense. And then of course, there's reporting on all that within your system that people can pull those quarterly or whatever reports to, to see what type of retention they're getting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It, okay. So, so back to the question of getting executive via it. I totally agree with you 100% on that. And I know from past experience that that can be a challenge. And there can be multiple players in the implementation and conversation of a CRM. Now, an executive level person might sign off on it or, you know, approve the budget. But then sometimes they disappear after that, right? And there's other people within various levels. There's obviously IT. There's integration, right? There's the marketing people, like you said. So, any suggestions you have from your experience on, again, right? For anybody listening to this, when they're considering a CRM, Velma or anybody, you want to be successful with that. How do we keep the top level executives involved in general? I know it varies based on organization. But any comments you would have on that? Yeah. So, at Velma, the development team is obviously huge. We've got a really big, amazing development team. And they're cranking out new features and ideas and automation and integrations and all the rest each and every day. And it's just a wonder to watch them work. But, you know, I think probably even more important for us is the client services department. And what they do at Velma is, you know, we don't just do this implementation training and then off you go, I hope you're successful. We actually do what's called a quarterly business review, a QBR. And this is not to pop us up. I'm sure other CRMs do this as well. And if they don't, you should ask your CRM provider to do it. But do a quarterly business review. And in that review, you should be reviewing the objectives. So the first quarterly business review for us would have all of the objectives that we outlined in the sales process. So when we sit down with the executive, the marketing team, the sales team, what are our objectives? What data do we have and what are our objectives? And then when you sit down to do that quarterly business review, did you achieve your objectives? And so really dialing in on objectives, goals and making sure that you're hitting those and then providing comprehensive reports that can be delivered to the executive showing that the CRM implementation and ongoing training and adoption and automation, that all of that is working and delivering value to the business. When we do that, yeah, when we do that, the executives, they get excited about it. They can see that they're making money, that they're getting a huge ROI and then they're more invested in the relationship and more willing to allocate resources to strengthen it. Yeah, it makes sense. What should some of the objectives be? Do you think or what do you generally see? Is there a recurring theme in terms of when somebody's investing in a CRM? There's a certain theme of objectives that they're trying to accomplish, a better efficiency, you know, whatever. Yeah, you know, it really does depend on the organization. If you've got a strong reverse group and you really want to focus on getting more reverse business, then you identify, you know, the data that you have, the data sources that you have, you identify, you know, how are we going to go to market with that particular product? I'm just taking something randomly, but it really is dependent on the organization. Of course, you want to make sure that you're retaining all of your past clients by having a post-close campaign. I don't think there's a CRM in the mortgage space that doesn't have some sort of email print or combination there of post-close campaign. That's easy. The lead marketing, you know, it can be nuanced, right? So, how deep do you want to go with your lead marketing? Do you want to have very targeted campaigns, specifically for refives or specifically for renters or, you know, do you want to try to resurrect, you know, some of the, look Jeff, these companies, it's unbelievable to me how much data they have at their fingertips sitting in their LLS. There are thousands and thousands of opportunities sitting in the LLS just languishing away. And it's really, it's really disheartening until you get a hold of it and you say, wow, look, look at this data. Let's do this, this, and let's pick these three objectives and make sure that that we're going to identify everybody who could benefit from X or Y product and let's develop a campaign around it. Yeah, and you help them make sense of that data and make that data usable, right, rather than just sitting. Yeah. So, you mentioned that you gave that example earlier of, you know, depends on the organization in terms of objectives and you use the example of reverse and I know I'm kind of putting you on the hot seat here a bit, but so reverse is one, it could be refile, it could be jumbo, it could be USDA, FHA, right, but I guess put it in the context and I'm sure you've been asked this question before, but I really want to hear your opinion of this as how would or how does a CRM help me sell more of a particular, if that's my objective, right, if I want to drive reverse, if I want to drive USDA. How's it going to help me or my company, my organization, right, grow my share of X product? Does that make sense at all the question? It does, it does, and so yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So the key here is the automation is taking the data and getting it into the CRM so that each, each originator has their own individual database that is going to be marketed to automatically. The loan officers are not having to get into the system and select contacts and figure out what to send them and all the rest. That's all happening automatically, that's being driven by the marketing department and when when the, for instance, when those pieces go out, you can look at your marketing history, you can see who's opening the pieces, who's not opening the pieces, and as you're thinking about spending time in your day, here's a great example. Let's move off the reverse because that's typically more of a print play. Let's talk about free approvals. So we all get these free approvals, and then oftentimes they get in that free approval state, and then they sit there, and they're stuck there in that free approval state, and then they don't move forward. Without some sort of marketing automation CRM tool, those people can just get stuck in the LOS, and then you move as an originator, you're going to move on, right? You're going to move on and work closest to the money. I mean, that's what we do as salespeople. We work closest to the money. And by that way, when you say work closest to the money, you mean the deals that are going to close quicker sooner? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so if somebody is stuck in this pre-approval state, we have a tendency to say, I'm going to move on to the people who are more likely to buy today than two months from now. And so by sending out, by having campaigns designed around that status, that milestone of pre-approval, as we're sending out that communication, we're keeping the loan officer and the company brand connected to that borrower. And so when they do decide to buy, they've got something in their inbox that says, oh, you know what? I'm going to call Jeff. That's what I'm going to call. I'm ready to move that. And when they open those marketing pieces, you can see that in the marketing history. And then you can pick up the phone and say, hey, Jeff, I just sent you something on the value of pre-approval. I noticed that you opened it. Have you started looking again? So it really gives you a sort of a warm list of people to call based on the consumption of the marketing material. Yeah, it's interesting. What's coming up for me in hearing that description is I did a podcast last week and I talked about the number one thing that every successful business has and that is a predictable sales system. So CRM helps you have a predictable sales system. It moves people along a path whereby if you relied on simple human effort, right, that heavy lifting odds are that's not going to happen. So that's one of the advantages of a CRM. Yeah, no question about it. Yeah, there's no question about it. And you know, if we rely on a spreadsheet or a file system, we're going to forget about this. Scratch pad. Yeah, scratch pad. We're just going to forget about people. So having that normal workflow, so when I get a pre-approval, I'm going to always do this. I'm going to make my systems always going to send out this letter, this email, and then this email, and then when they open it, then I pick up the phone and I call them. So this is the process that I always go through. And you're right. Here on CRM does that. Yeah, it makes me think of the term customer journey, which I'm sure you're familiar with, and actually comes out of various events I've attended at Salesforce in the past. And knowing that in today's world, people are on a certain customer journey, right? And in the mortgage space, it depends on how they're engaging you, but whether it's online, referral, whatever, but there's a process, there's a journey. And if we don't have that defined for them, then it breaks down and they don't get the engagement and their responsiveness that they expect and deserve. So they're going to go elsewhere and want to have that positive customer journey, right? No question about it. And one of the really exciting things that is coming to, it really kind of already here and just beginning to grow is this idea of behavioral marketing. And so as consumers consume marketing material, we're adjusting the campaign pieces, the cadence, the, you know, when we're delivering the pieces, what time of day, we know what type of devices that they're opening pieces on, so we're optimizing for the devices. And so when you talk about customer journey, you're really talking about creating a segment of one. And that's really the, that the shingle off for marketers, right, is, you know, taking a thousand customers and and segmenting it down to one contact and having really, really highly personalized content, delivery schedule and all the rest. Yeah. And then in addition to that personalized one-to-one experience, which is definitely where it's headed, is then of course getting the real-time triggers that notify you, your sales and marketing team, you know, at various stages of engagement, so you can appropriately follow up in a timely manner. Yeah, that's right. And, you know, speed to contact, making sure you are the person who is there at the exact right time is really hard to do without having a CRM in place to tell you a, Jeff, it's time for you to call Jim, he just opened the email or it's time for you to call Jim. He hasn't, you haven't talked to him in two months and you're scheduled to. So you're absolutely right, trying to remember that and, and you know, let's face it, as salespeople, we're managing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of relationships, unlike, you know, yesterday or when you didn't have to manage as many contacts as many relationships, it's, you know, relying on your memory or a file system, Scratchpad, Excel, it's just, it's, it's so 2000. Yeah, what do you see out there when you're engaging with a company before they bring on, you know, Velma, for instance, are they on an existing CRM and they're switching? Is that the usual case where they, you know, not on one currently and there are a lot, in a lot of pain? What are you seeing? Yeah, you know, when, when, not too long ago, Jeff, they, the number of organizations, so when I was out prospecting, I would talk about 50% of the organizations didn't have a CRM, they kind of knew, you know, I better, I should probably do that. And I don't know, that was probably three, four, five years ago, I guess I'd have to really think about that. It wasn't too long ago that it was about half. But today, I honestly can't think of the last time I went into a perspective, a new prospect sales call where they did not have a CRM. If you don't have a CRM today, you are unquestionably in the minority. And so, yeah, organizations are moving from one CRM to the next. And honestly, I've seen a lot of movement. It seems like organizations are jumping around quite a bit these days. And I think that it's, in part, because CRM is not delivering what the organization's sold and CRM and or the executives had the wrong expectations. So it's either sold wrong, bad expectations, poor implementation, no follow-up, no training, and all the rest. And so it's not necessarily the product that's the problem. It's the people around the product that is creating as much movement as there is from CRM to CRM. And that's a great point. And that speaks to your earlier discussion around building out that kind of onboarding, both pre-during and post-onboarding. And that's, your number one thing was to get executive buy-in and have clear objectives. And make sure you've got the appropriate people involved so you can tie off on those and conduct your quarterly reporting and so forth and demonstrate that success. And I would say that is for me. And I've actually been part of the sales guy sitting at the desk at whatever company and a new CRM comes in. And for me, the biggest challenge always had been, well, why are we doing this? Well, what's the benefit? And why do we have to change? And then they get it installed, and it's like going to the dentist, it's pulling teeth. And so for anybody listening who's considering switching CRMs, I would agree with your point earlier, Brent, that that is the biggest thing. Make it clear as to what the benefits are going to be. And then you get the people championing behind you on it. Yeah. And there's probably some golden ratio there. For every extra action that a CRM asks a loan officer to take, the CRM better do five things. So there's probably some sort of ratio there. But yeah, that's really it. I mean, loan officers have been starting their transactions in the LLS for years and years and years, and then you're going to come in as a CRM provider and say, you need to stop doing what you've always done and start doing it this way. And you're going to, you know, what the really great news is, the executive team is going to be able to see, have more visibility into the sales funnel. So like, well, I don't really care about that as a loan officer. What I care about is selling more loans. So how is this going to help me sell more loans? Yes, exactly. Say, top of mind, make me the obvious choice with my customers, automate some of the, you know, processes in terms of database marketing and all that stuff that you that you talked about. Absolutely. 100% agree with you on that. And, you know, I think it speaks to the success that you guys have had that you've obviously figured something out when it comes to that, when it comes to getting executive buy-in, getting the individual loan officers supporting you and then being successful because, you know, as you said, you've been at this for a long time and you are, you know, definitely on the shortlist, I think, for anybody considering CRMs in the mortgage space, you've got all the integrations for LOS. I know you also integrate to mortgage coach, which a lot of top producers use out there. And that, that just, you know, enhances the overall attractiveness of your product, I think. So with that said, any place you want to direct people that are listening to find out more about Velma, where they can maybe dive in and get connected to you? Yeah, real easy. Just go to Velma, V-E-L-M-A.com. Velma.com. Down at the bottom there's a requested demo and we can, you know, we don't have to necessarily even do a demo. We can just kind of talk about what you're currently doing with CRM and I'd be happy to spend some time with your listeners, even if you guys aren't in the market to make a change. You know, I'm really passionate. We are really passionate about helping mortgage companies become more efficient and automate the things that people used to do manually and really delivering value to not just individual loan officers or mortgage companies, but the industry as a whole. It's a phenomenal industry. We're still really blessed to be a part of it. And there are just some unbelievably great things going on in the CRM space, Jeff. And you mentioned that integration with mortgage coach, integrations are getting deeper and deeper and more exciting every day. So yeah, it's a great time to be in the in the CRM space, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And a few people are looking for ease of use. I know you're consistently ranked as the easiest mortgage marketing CRM on the market. And that's part of your motto. Keep it simple. So it gets used. And that's the key hallmark of any successful CRM is it's got to get used and making it simple as a key part of that. So hats off to you guys for doing that. So once again, Brent, thanks for being here. And for those listeners that have tuned in, thanks for listening to this episode of mortgage marketing radio. We always appreciate you. Feel free to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, leave us a comment, a review. And as always, we will see you on the next show by for now. Thanks for listening to mortgage marketing radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. 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