Ep# 36: How LeadPops Helps Get You Consumer Direct Mortgage Leads

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, welcome to this week's episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. This is a good one this week. You should be glad you tuned in because this one is a home run. We're hitting that out of the park. Special guest this week is the CEO and founder of leadpops.com and let me ask you a question. As a mortgage loan originator, do you do any of the following? Do you have a website? Do you use email, social media? Do you blog? Are you into content marketing? Do you want to learn more about how to generate your own leads through organic search engine optimization, paper, click, retargeting, video webinars? What about direct mail? Flyers, events, magazines, newspapers, radio seminars? How about referral marketing, right? Finit B&I, affinity groups, realtor co-marketing, builder co-marketing and so on. That pretty much describes everyone who's listening. If that describes you and you for some time now have scratched your head about how to effectively generate and convert and optimize your lead flow process, consumer direct, realtor co-branding and co-partnering, if you're looking for ways to convert more leads, even perhaps generate your own consumer direct leads, yes, the holy grail. My special guest here today, Andrew Leapops.com, is going to blow your socks off. This guy is literally the wizard, the guru. I thought I knew a lot about the general marketing. This guy knows a lot and so today we unpack all those types of content and topics and really to help you, this is literally a course in how to get more results from the current marketing that you're doing. If you're doing anything or much in the way of digital marketing right now, which includes things like Facebook and optimizing your social media presence and doing it in a compliant way, tune in, right, tune in, set aside time to listen to this in a dedicated way because I guarantee you, you're going to find this to be one of the best episodes you've heard when it comes to marketing. So if you liked this week's show, make sure you leave a rating, leave a comment, email me anytime, info at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com, subscribe if you haven't and check the show notes for all the links to today's resources, including the free Facebook we've got if you're interested in getting more info of the kind we have today. Just let us know. So let's get into this week's show. Andrew, welcome to the show. Thanks Jeff, thanks for having me on board. It's my pleasure. It's been, I think probably a couple of months coming since getting you on the radar and getting you on the podcast introduced to you by our mutual friend, Tim Davis at Movement Mortgage. I wanted to bring you on today because you're obviously, from when I talked to you last time, I mean, you definitely get it when it comes to digital marketing. And I think you understand the complete landscape of it. And of course, with your kind of focus in the realtor and mortgage space, you understand the unique aspects of that and some of the challenges and opportunities that are faced there. So lead gen digital marketing online, Facebook, right, email, social. What is lead pops and where do you play in helping mortgage professionals generate leads? All right. Cool. Thanks for the intro. I like how you kind of rattled off a whole bunch of things. Really social media, email marketing, traditional marketing, I mean, it's all kind of intertwined. A lot of loan officers kind of tend to think they're these like separate kind of compartmentalized pieces of their business and they kind of treat them all separately, but they're all meant to kind of work together. They all fuel each other. And it's really important though to get results is it's understanding that you've got to have a foundation first that's going to capture leads and that's actually going to convert all this activity and all this like exposure that you're trying to create for yourself. And when people find you, you know, when they find you online, whether it's from a social media post, a blog post, an email blast that you do, you know, direct mail or that you send out. Whereas, you know, you hope the phone rings, but these days, people don't call the way they used to. And when you're having a website on, there's going to be crucial. But not if that website just is kind of like a black hole where people just go on to it, they read a bunch of stuff and there's some calculators to play around with and maybe a loan application and that's all there is to it. There's really no point of conversion. And when I say that, I don't mean like a contact me form, but understanding that there is like, there are ways to create these mouse traps and like little booby traps that you can kind of plant throughout your marketing, throughout your websites, throughout your landing pages, your blog posts, your emails, everything that you're doing. You can drive people back to these powerful engagement tools that are built to take an anonymous visitor and kind of coax them out of the dark and persuade them to provide you with some information, like the key pieces of information that you need, like a name, email and phone number, but understanding that you can't go for the jugular and approach people the wrong way and just ask for it right up front and make it all about you, you know, creating a smart kind of dynamic needs assessment and asking for the information in a way that's kind of enticing and kind of fun for people to interact with, makes all the difference in the world. Yeah, no, that's a good setup and so as the loan, you know, putting on my loan officer hat, right, we're going to break this down a little bit because if I try and step into the L.O. shoes, you know, what I hear sounds like a lot. And so let's start with when you meet with, you know, most loan officers, be it companies or whatnot because I know you work with both, where do you typically find them on the, you know, on the spectrum of that whole digital roadmap that just, you just laid out a lot of them are. That's a great question, you know, in terms of what's their starting point where we begin our kind of engagement process, most are at the stage where they're kind of dabbling in different marketing. They've tried, they've tried different things. They've had a website oftentimes. That's just typically it's never worked for them. They've switched from one website provider to another in many cases and none of them ever does anything. And they don't really understand why or they're at a point where they just don't believe that a website really can produce business, so they've kind of given up on that idea. And then they're kind of, a lot of times they're chasing like the next shiny object or a company that's like promoting, oh, you've got to do social media or, oh, you've got to start getting into the blogging and they dabble or they kind of dip their toe in all this stuff, but they've never set the right foundation to, to generate leads or to convert leads. So none of it's going to work. It's all, they're kind of setting themselves up for failure and they're not giving themselves a real opportunity to even see if any of that's going to work because it's like they're pouring water into a bucket and it's full of holes and nobody ever stopped to kind of point them and show them down at the bottom of that bucket. There's no way it's going to fill up, you know, for that stuff to work, you've got to optimize to convert leads. It's called conversion optimization, which is kind of a fancy phrase for making sure that everything you're doing is built to capture and convert. Otherwise, you know, you just get a whole bunch of lost opportunities, a bunch of clicks that don't turn into anything and you can't really do business with clicks. You can't refinance a click. You can't refer a click to a realtor. You know, you got to convert these people into actual leads and qualified exclusive leads. Otherwise, don't really get much out of all these efforts. Okay. So what is the foundation then? You talked about, right? They dabble in all these things and blogging and all that. So what's the foundation? Where do they need to start before they start identifying those various channels? You start with identifying what your target client is, who you're trying to get in front of your ideal kind of customer persona and, you know, what are their wants? Who is this person, age range, you know, demographics, details like how much money do they make? What kind of card do they drive? You know, just this ideal kind of customer that this offer or this information you're putting out, there's kind of geared towards and then work in your way towards that and driving these people with a call to action and not just leaving it up to chance that, oh, they're going to really just like this content I'm putting out there, like my videos are so good or my blog posts or my, you know, articles are so good that they're just going to reach out because I just keep putting this good information out and when they're ready, they're going to call me, understanding that you can take a more proactive approach along with putting out good valuable information, really providing a call to action and a reason and an easy way for them to interact and provide you with their info. So if they don't pick up the phone and call or they're not ready to jump into a loan application, having an endpoint that you can drive them into strategically that does the job of collecting their information in kind of a real fun interactive way, the same way that all these big mega lead generation companies that are kind of stealing leads from loan officers and selling them back to them have figured out how to do and just taking those same formulas that these big companies have spent the last, you know, a couple decades, some of them engineering and using those same strategies for yourself. So you can as a loan officer or as a mortgage broker, you can generate your own exclusive leads from the marketing that you're doing. You don't need to have a million dollar marketing budget, but you've got to have the same tools and technology if you want to go out and play on the same field as some of these big companies that are billion dollar lead generators, but, you know, without it's just like you're going to sit on the sidelines and you're going to lose out on opportunities and people that find you end up slipping through the cracks and they go elsewhere, they click off of your website or your landing page or your email and they get sucked into like lending tree or Zillow and you end up losing a lead or buying a lead you could have generated yourself just because you didn't have the right capture systems in place. Yeah, so there's a lot of good info in there and I'm trying to think, you know, I mean, there's a variety of different directions we can go in this conversation, we can go, you know, technology, how's it done, what are the bells and whistles and all that stuff and I think we'll get there, but I want to make sure we're setting this up properly because, you know, you mentioned that I think you used the word dabble and I know I see this quite often and what would you say, I know I see this so oftentimes the biggest, I think, damage that loan officers due to themselves is by dabbling if you will or just by not making a commitment. So what I mean by that is if you're going to blog or do video or get social, you've got to make sure that you do it consistently, develop a strategy and a plan versus I'm going to do one here, three weeks go by, do one here, I didn't get to it. That is very damaging. Would you agree to the results and momentum and kind of brand that you're building digitally? Yeah, absolutely. It's like sabotaging themselves, you know, results, I mean, nothing is easy, you got to build momentum and build consistency and people have to start to see you and trust you before they feel like they're going to do alone with you or refer a friend to you and then, you know, doing that and understanding that you're not going to get instant results in most cases. If you want instant results, you know, buy some leads, but if you're looking to build a machine and a presence for yourself or you're consistently converting and generating your own leads and using those leads not only for yourself, but to also feed to referral partners like real state agents and you can kind of turn the table on that, on that realtor paradigm where the realtors are always given out the leads, but instead, you're generating leads that you can actually share with your partner realtors, you know, building that machine, it takes a little bit of time. I mean, if you're currently doing a whole bunch of marketing or you've been around for a while and your name's out there, it's a lot easy to just plug in some good lead capture and see results very quickly. If your name's out there, you're getting a lot of traffic, people are finding you, you're doing radio ads, mailers, you've got a good email, database that you're marketing to, it's a lot easier to see quick results. You just plug in lead capture and you plug the holes, it's like almost like the air conditioning's blowing and we're just going to run around and like close the windows and like the patio doors been left wide open. We're going to close all that stuff up and all of a sudden you can you can feel the air a lot better. If your air conditioning's not even on, then we've got to, you know, it's going to take a little bit of time. We've got to close up the windows and make sure everything's prepared for lead gen and then we can start really turning on turning on this big air, turning on the AC, whatever you want to call it and then you can expect it to start to see results from it. Otherwise, it's nothing you do is going to just going to show you anything, you know, it's just spinning your wheels. Okay, so let's, let's get down to the ground level for a little bit. Let's maybe give some specifics on how you help plug the holes or how you, you know, turn on the air conditioning for a loan officer, whether it's, you know, begin to generate leads or one of the some of the things you do to help them either generate, because you're teasing the audience, generate your own consumer direct leads, hand them off the referrals, whatever. I mean, that's the holy grail, right? So maybe some actual case studies or whatever, you know, of how you would do that for a loan officer. Yeah, absolutely. So it starts with our, I mean, we've created a product specifically for this. It's called our funnels product and it's, it's a lead generation software that loan officers, realtors, insurance agents can launch very quickly and just literally take these links that we provide that are fully customized and ready to go for a variety of different loan programs and products and real estate lead generation kind of scenarios and start plugging them into marketing that you're already doing. If you've got a website, well, it's the first thing we want to do is optimize that website to convert leads and, you know, there's no better example just to get an idea of what I'm talking about when I say that optimized to convert leads. It sounds kind of like ambiguous, but just look at companies like lending tree, go to their homepage, just see what they're doing when you click on any of their main calls to action from their website, see where they take you, see how they just basically whisk you away from their website onto these fun kind of interactive landing pages. The same kind of thing, lower my bills, who's sold for $330 million to experience a few years back is doing. If you go to lowermybills.com, big call to action right on the homepage, they've got a call to action button, click that, see what happens next, you know, just follow the money, see what the biggest companies out there are doing and kind of understand that it's all about the strategy of how they take the person that finds them and they pull them into these interactive kind of fun questionnaires, these kind of surveys that ask for information, but they do it in a way that doesn't scare you off. They don't make you feel like it's a loan application. They don't ask you for your personal information right up front. They deliver the questions in kind of a fun dynamic way where it's not like you got 20 fill in the blank questions in the big daunting form that's going to scare you off. And before you know it, you're kind of sucked into this whole thing, you're committed, and then at the end when they ask you for that information, you're a lot more likely to convert into a lead and provide accurate information than you would be if the first thing they asked you for was all your contact info right up front. Yeah, exactly. All right, so lowermybills.com, great example. I'm on the site and I get what you mean by they take you through it. It's essentially a kind of a buyer's journey, you know, some questions and quizzes that are that are interactive and fun and not intrusive. All right, so let's move one step before that. So I've got the great website, I've got the whole process for once I get somebody I get an eyeball right to my page. Let's go before that. I still need to get traffic. So how do I get traffic to my site as a loan officer? Sure, great question. I always suggest for LOS to get an idea of what they've currently got. Just to understand that hey, you might already have a little bit of traffic come into that site, you know, looking at your Google Analytics or looking at any kind of traffic measurement tool you might have installed on this site. Just to get an idea if there's anything already coming through because it's always interesting that a lot of LOS just kind of tend to think that all my website it doesn't really get anything to it. You know, I don't get any leads out of it. I don't really promote it that way. That's that's not what I use my website for is I get that a lot. But when you kind of peel back the curtain and you start to look at the traffic and you see, wow, you've gotten 700 visitors per month over the last 90 days on average 700 visitors a month. It's not just spam, you know, China traffic. These are real people finding you. You actually happen to be doing okay in Google already. You've got some local key phrases you're placing for and the reason you didn't really know about it or pay attention to it is because people just come click and they don't convert. So, so, you know, because there's a lot of different ways to get people to the site. There's search engine optimization, organic, there's local SEO, there's paper click advertising, there's social media, there's blogging, email blasts, traditional marketing, radio ads, all of that stuff that's kind of well, yeah, I'm just listing off types of marketing you can do. I mean, all of it works together. And most people that are looking looking for you online, they're going to end up on your website. So, if you're in L.O. and you don't have a website, you've just got like your pay backing off the corporate loan officer page they've set you up with. I mean, that would be the first thing you want to do is build your own site. If you can, optimize that site to convert leads, the quickest, least expensive way you can start driving traffic is social media marketing targeting, you know, specific niches and audience types. And then driving those people, though, into the correct landing page or the correct kind of funnel that coincides or corresponds with the targeting and the ads that you're running and making sure that there's a strong message message match from the very beginning of the offer. When you first presented your ad, your image, your ad copy, and all of it being very cohesive and aligning as they click through from that ad or from that email blast or from the blog post, whatever it might be that you're putting out there and driving them now into a landing page or a capture funnel that really matches very well with the messaging and the images and the colors. It all needs to be very cohesive. It's called ad scent. And those clients are kind of sniffing around on the internet. They're going to follow that ad scent. And as they kind of follow and track that scent, the better in line it is with what they clicked on in the first place, what caught their attention in the first place, the better your conversion rates are going to be. Yeah, absolutely. It's the same type of experience we have as consumers. We know when we've got a lousy user experience and a good one, the good one usually takes us to that end result, which is to, you know, click purchase buy, enroll, sign up, whatever. And when it's a bad experience, we don't, we leave. And the same things happening if you're generating some kind of traffic to your site. But you mentioned something that I want to, we've probably talking to a couple different types of people in the listening audience here. You talked about if all you've got is your corporate website web page, which is basically a static brochure page. And so we've definitely got some listeners in that group. Then we probably have some listeners in, you know, the group that maybe has some more freedom, right? Maybe some brokers or whatnot where they're not necessarily, you know, don't have the compliance handcuffs on them. And you said the quickest, cheapest way to start generating traffic is through social media marketing. So I want to maybe with the context of how I just set that up, right? We've got you know, and touching on each of these audiences, would you, would you change your directive or your, your, you know, response to what you would suggest listeners do based on the context other situation, if that makes sense? Well, sure. I mean, if you, if you're on L.O., that's, that's kind of limited in launching, say, your own website. And, you know, you kind of, a lot of them do stuff kind of under the radar or just, you know, they, they're not a lot of have their own website, but they do some different marketing and they've got different pages and different things that they run or they, they can kind of market that maybe aren't. So on the radar, I'm not encouraging anybody to break the rules or, or get in trouble with their compliance. But, you know, there's, there's different rules with every company and just kind of I'd say, see what you can and can't do and see how far you can push it without getting fine or getting anybody in trouble. And if, you know, this is your business and if you want to kind of take control of your own lead gen, you know, understanding that, hey, you've got to do some things that are outside of the box and stuff that other L.O.'s and the company aren't doing isn't necessarily because it doesn't work. They just, they don't know about this kind of stuff. So, you know, if you're turning on social media, let's just say, either way, if you've got a website or not, your homepage isn't necessarily where you're going to drive people, though having a good website homepage is always going to be, it's like the hub of everything. So if I don't, you know, let's just say the main place you're going to want to drive social media traffic to or blog traffic or email traffic to is going to be a landing page that's built to match the ad copy. So let's just say it's a VA ad that you're running for, you know, VA loans targeting veterans and military families with a good offer. And the destination you want to drive those clicks to is going to be a VA specific landing page or funnel. That's got messaging that matches the offer that's dedicated to just that topic that doesn't have a whole bunch of navigation and links and information and menus taking them all all over the place to other, other non-relevant information. And, you know, if you don't have a website, that's fine because that landing page that's specific to VA is what you'd be using in that case with whether or not you have a website. Now, the beauty of having a site is let's just say you're converting at a 10% conversion rate would be fantastic. It's great. We've got all kinds of examples of clients that are in that realm and some even higher, some lower, just depending on where their traffic is coming from. But let's just say you're converting at 10%. Well, 90% of those folks are still, they're not turning into anything, right? So what happens a lot of times is they saw your ad, they saw your offer, they got kind of exposed to you, your name, your company. They don't fill out the information right off the bat. They just, they come to your page and then they leave and they go to Google. They want to like research you now. They do, you know, Google search for your name and mortgage loan officers, something along those lines are the name of your company. They want to read some reviews. They want to do some research on your reputation, you know, see if there's anything bad about you in the past or whatever they can find, right? And then they end up on your website or your loan officer page. And that's where that second chance to convert them now that you've maybe built trust. They saw a whole bunch of good, yellow reviews. Now they've clicked from Yelp into your website or your page. Here's another opportunity to drive them into a lead capture mechanism or a landing page or a funnel. And if you don't have that, well, then those, those opportunities kind of a lot of them will end up slipping to their cracks or they'll click into your corporate website. They click on the logo on the homepage and they end up, you know, calling into the, to the corporate office and they get passed off to another loan officer. Whereas hey, if you've got more control of it, you've got your own website. You have more control over all these kind of various scenarios that are just real life, real life stuff that's happening. That you don't really, it's hard to kind of quantify or keep a pulse on that. Oh, this guy came to my page. Then he left and then he circled back around, found me in Google and then he actually converted into a lead for my homepage. Unless I'm asking these specific questions of all my leads, it's hard to kind of follow the trail of how they found me and how they came back to me where they first saw me. You know, so having a website, that's like your hub, but then marketing your specific landing pages and funnels and your various efforts that are geared towards the marketing that you're doing. But again, all of it kind of flowing back to your homepage and your website. Again, it all works very well together. But if you have that, some of those pieces missing, you're not going to have as much of a kind of holistic or all kind of all encompassing approach to your lead gen. You're going to miss some clients here and there and I mean, that's inevitable. You're not going to get everybody. But the more of these kind of holes you can plug and the better you have your system dialed in to capture, convert, retarget people that don't convert, drip on people that convert, but don't answer calls with emails and things like that. These pieces all work very well together to kind of maximize the ROI you get from the money you're spending. Yeah, so if I'm looking at possibly a service like yours, what do I need to start? I mean, do I need a database? Because I know one of the things you do is you'll help actually drive traffic for people if I'm correct. So what do I need to start? Do I need a decent social media presence? Do I need a good database or are you? Do you also generate just cold traffic off of SEO and that can be part of a total solution? Well, we help our clients depending on their scenario figure out what like the best game plan is going to be for each individual person. Some people come to us with a good database they're marketing to, they've got a website already that that's getting some traffic. These are for us. These are like layups. Let me just put some good conversion tools in the right places, do some conversion optimization on your existing site or if your site's kind of a hopeless case and it's hard to work with or it's just so cumbersome. There's so much work to do. Let's replace your site with one that's built from the ground up for lead capture and just put that domain name. You've been marketing on a site that's built for capture. And voila, the leads start coming in like literally the day or the hour in many cases that you go live. And that's again, these are the layups. These are people with a database. They're doing marketing. They've got realtor referrals, doing radio ads, direct mail, blogging, any and or all of that stuff is awesome and it's easy for us to show immediate results. Somebody that's brand new maybe that's got no marketing. Well, they got to have a willingness to put in time and effort into putting their name out there, spending money to build their database. And the ideal person, even in that scenario, will understand that the first thing you've got to do before you go spend money on marketing and talking to realtors and doing all this stuff is you've got to build the right foundation. So get a website that's built to capture and convert leads. If you can't have a website, let's get you into our funnels product and to our landing pages. It's very easy to set these things up. And then we can just start driving traffic based on your ad spend and targeting that you want to do. And really quick is the easiest way to do that as I mentioned at the lowest cost is typically going to be social media marketing. They don't have an email database. We don't have much to work with. So then we've got to do some list building efforts, doing some lead magnets, maybe a 2017 home buyer guide, something they can start to build up your email list. So you can start to market and drip to these people. And from that list that you build, start extracting the more serious prospects from the suspects. Yeah, exactly. A couple quick tips if you wouldn't mind in terms of starting with social media. If I'm a loan officer and okay, I've got a limited budget, but I know I can tap the massive amounts of audience and targeting on Facebook. What would you generally recommend for best practices there? Well, great question because first things first before you just start turning on ads. No, man, we want to go. Just turn it on. See, let's do this. Take a step back and understand that, hey, to get the most out of the ads, to build your edge rank, to get lower cost clicks and relevance for the people you're trying to get in front of, let's build a community page and get some traction on it. Let's get some interactions and some likes. Let's not just come at it from a mortgage angle of, hey, I've got great rights for my loan application, get pre-approved, you know, all this mortgage stuff because that's not that appealing to people. So you're looking for a place for these loan officers to be able to engage and build value like a community like you said versus, you don't want to come out swinging, right? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. All right, so quick question. Now I'm going to step up my Q&A with you. I'm going to start peppering you because I definitely get what you're saying about the pages and I like that. I see the value of it. What do you say if, okay, like in my town here, Rancho Santa, Margarita, I've already got at least a couple three different community pages. How would you help me in that case? Well, immediately start running offers and ads for relevant loan products and niche products like getting pre-approved for a 1% down program. These work very well, down payment assistance, even though that might not be the ideal kind of borrower someone's looking for, that's not all you're going to get. You're going to get people to raise their hand and show interest in a loan product or program that they might not know about or have even thought about before. So you're offering something that will get the buyers kind of to show themselves that they wouldn't react to if it was just, hey, you know, get pre-approved for a mortgage in a 30 year fixed rate. But offering kind of different niche loan programs and products, sprinkling in offers for exclusive real estate to help them either find their dream home or to get exclusive listings, pocket listings for closures, different things like that where you can start marketing to home buyers. And again, not just taking the mortgage angle, but kind of dabbling in different niches that will work for you. And you just got to test different stuff. I know dabbling isn't the best way to go about like your marketing as a whole. But when it comes to testing and ads and things like that, you do want to kind of experiment and see what's pulling in the best results in every community's a little bit different in the loan products and programs you're promoting are going to vary. So running different ads for different offers, niche products and programs, not just mortgage based, but real estate based as well. And targeting specific demographics and the types of people that'll be a good match for that kind of loan product or program would be a great way to do it. If you've already got a community page that's built up that's got good traffic, good traction on it, then you can start running offers for people that are in that kind of community. And then just running offers and getting folks that that click on an offer into a funnel or a landing page that does the job of collecting the information and delivering that lead exclusively to you. Right. No, that's great info. And so let me ask the question this way. So let's say there's already a community page for Rancho Santa Margarita Irvine, you know, whatever your town, you know, you know, I'm competing obviously for those eyeballs. And so I guess the question is, you know, how many community pages can a town, a city, whatever have? And how can I have a unique angle to that so that it's, you know, so that I can still attract people because if all I do is put up, I don't know, Rancho Santa Margarita too. Right. Who's going to come to that? So obviously, to your point earlier about the community, they just got to be value there. So there is in you, a lot of people are familiar with these community pages, which I think is a great idea. Most loan officers don't do do this at all. So I just, this sheer effect of them may be doing one is enough, but any suggestion on how you would, you know, position it uniquely. Sure. Sure. Well, here's the thing. You wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend that you're, you're just running offers to let's just say you've got 300 or even a thousand likes and followers to your community page. You know, we're not just, we're not targeting only those people. We're wanting to build the page up so that it's relevant. It looks legit. There's interaction. There's posts being done regularly daily, ideally. And then from there, running ads from those pages are offers from those pages for a much larger kind of area, you know, all of Orange County, for example, or anybody that might be interested, but using that, that community page is kind of the catalyst or the springboard for these offers. So it's not just coming from like XYZ mortgage company and that's where we do your ads, you know, doing these offers from that community page and targeting much more than just that community targeting. Anybody that might be interested in buying a home, people that have shown interest in Zillow or Trulia or Realtor.com. How do you know they've shown interest in that? Through targeting and Facebook, you're able to figure out basically stuff that people are interested in, not only that just like demographics and age and those kinds of things, but you can actually pick out pages that they like and strategically kind of look at, okay, what is someone that maybe is in the home purchase process? What kind of page could they could they have recently maybe like maybe a DIY page or different things like that about home improvement, you know, things of that nature. And then if you're targeting people that like Zillow, for example, and they're a likely first time home buyer and they meet those demographics, and you know, you might have a little bit of an angle that you can take that's a little bit different than just targeting the most obvious stuff that people will pick from the drop down list and in the back end of Facebook that everybody is targeting. Now that's some great advice, very unique. All right, so I think I get what you're saying here. I mean, we've got the community page, and this is great because I can build my awareness and brand in a community page, and I'm just getting flooded with ideas here. I can also, you know, ideally, right, this is a community page that's really focused on the community. So I'd want to reach out and invite, which I can do this on my community page, invite other relevant, you know, quote content providers to be part of this community page, local businesses, restaurants, the dry cleaner guy, obviously some agents, perhaps, am I on the right track here? Totally. I'm a big big proponent of getting referral partners involved in your marketing, and you know, even having like a referral partner showcase on your website and kind of keeping it exclusive by breaking them up into maybe different territories or communities. Same thing you can do, like you were just saying, great ideas is getting them involved in your local community page. Maybe one of your posts every week is like a local restaurant that you do like a highlight on where you showcase like a review from Yelp along with, you know, a hashtag and kind of tagging that restaurant in the post, you know, getting more people exposed to it, getting them excited about it, getting them to want to share it on their wall and with their people and their followers, you know, you might only have a couple hundred people, but they might have, you know, a couple thousand. Right. And, you know, you've kind of shown some interest and goodwill in helping them promote their business, and I think that's just all around kind of a good thing to do in general. Okay. So I think now that we get that, we've built that concept of the community page. You also mentioned then running some targeted Facebook ads. And are you saying that you use the Facebook targeting capabilities to see which of the people that are members of your community have interest in those relevant things you mentioned. Like, for instance, have they been to Zillow or as a certain demographic, you know, first time home buyer, that kind of stuff. I would say anybody that's like within a 25 mile range of the area that your community pages in, that could be a first time home buyer. So we're not just targeting the folks in that community. We're targeting anybody that's kind of in, let's just say the orange county area that could be a home buyer, but running, running these ads from that community page within the community page itself. Yes. Okay. Got it. All right. Cool. And then you put them into a funnel and all that. Awesome. Yeah, it's funny. I'm looking here right now on this community page and there's a brand new restaurant that opened up. That's such a great way to add value and build your, build your network. Right? Like you said, who this restaurant? It's it's Dickie's barbecue. These guys are huge. They're a franchise. So, you know, you're just exposing yourself now to these additional business owners who they may have a need for a mortgage or guess what? They probably know somebody who does because their networks likely pretty large. Yeah. Absolutely. And there's who knows what kind of cross marketing you can do down the line, whether it's a catered at an open house or you know, featuring each other on each other's sites or whatever, you know, there's other different kinds outside of the boxways to kind of figure out strategies depending on the referral partner. But it just opens up doors and just hey, goodwill. I'm a big fan of your restaurant. I hear like at least once a month, I'd love to showcase like a little featured spot for you. I do like a featured restaurant every Friday. I was thinking about putting you guys up. How does that sound? Is that cool? I'll tag you in the post. I'll have like a featured review. If there's one in particular, you want me to showcase or if there's an offer or some sort of a coupon or rebate or something, you guys are running that you'd like me to include with that. I'd be more than happy to include that. And even just run, you know, run five or 10 bucks to it and boost it, you know, it's or have them split the cost with you and just say, Hey, if you want, let's just each throw in 10 bucks, add an exposure to you, your page, more people like, more people sign up with, you know, goodwill. And again, it's not a big spend. If you did that once a week, that's what 10 bucks a week, once a week, 40 bucks a month on something like that, where you pick a different referral partner to showcase. Maybe tax season's coming up and you do something like that, where you're CPA, right? It's like top 10 things you got to look at possibly writing off if you're a small business owner and targeting specifically small business owner demographics on Facebook with that post, but boosting your referral partner from your community page. Now they're going to take that. They're going to want to take it boost it, share it, possibly send out an email blast to their database with that same content or you can blast it out to your database. Oh my god, my head's going to explode. That is awesome. Those are some brilliant ideas, man. This is an education that we got to send you a check. Seriously, that, that would you just covered right there is like money. That's worth a lot. I'm telling you. So question, where, where do you rank doing the community page versus personal page and business page and how does that play into this whole mix as a loan officer? Perfect. So personal page, I would say, keep that as separate as you can from stuff. I mean, if you're, especially if you're posting personal stuff that shouldn't ever really be exposed. Well, yeah, I should never be posting your drunk Saturday nights and yeah, all your political stuff and all that craziness that sometimes people like over, let's spill over into their business world. Just keep it separate. You know, your, your loan officer page or your mortgage page should be one entity or one, one layer of your Facebook strategy and then having different community pages were different areas that you target that, you know, you don't necessarily use your mortgage company logo on the community page. Maybe it's like a, a symbol of a home or something like that with that like local community, like logo or something like that. And that's, that's the content for that community page and you kind of, you don't necessarily show, right, show, right, that it's a mortgage company running this behind the scenes because you were trying to get, get, get you to do a mortgage with us. But just making it really focused on that community, good, you know, again, restaurants, local businesses, history of the community. That's where you can start to showcase real estate listings, open houses, get your realtors involved in it as well and start running a little bit of a real estate angle to help propel your mortgage business because it's just a whole lot more interest online and people searching for real estate related information than there are people looking for mortgage information. Like if you do a search like a tool I really like to use that just gives you some really cool data in terms of search volume, popular keywords. It's kind of like Google keyword planner but it's a tool that's built off of the data of Google. It's called SEMrush.com and you can put in like a keyword. A great example is like San Diego mortgage. You put that into SEMrush and it'll show you some data on how often it gets typed in. You know, how many results come up for that key phrase and it shows you some like different derivatives and different kind of different keywords that are similar but you know, maybe they get typed in more or less San Diego mortgage as an example. I get typed in an estimated 50 times per month. That's 50, 50 times per month total. It's got like 16 million results coming up for it. Mortgage guys in San Diego, I'll tell you, I talked to them a lot of times or mortgage guys all over the country and they'll be like, oh man, that's just, you know, just put me at the top of Google for something like San Diego mortgage. That's really a whole need, you know, and the SEO guy will sell it to him all day long and be like, look at that, there's 16 million results. We could probably get you to the top. The first page pretty much guaranteed and they fall into this idea just because the results and looking at who's paying to be there on the ads and per click, they think that just without looking at the actual underlying data that something like that's super valuable when reality, it gets typed in 50 times per month. You'd have to be like number one for multiple years to really start to get enough traffic out of that one keyword to convert enough leads to get enough loans for that to actually pay for it, like the cost of getting you to the number one spotter, the first page for something that's really still ultra competitive because it's a mortgage keyword. But then you look at something like San Diego Real Estate, same tool, semrush.com, San Diego Real Estate, that's like 8100 times per month. So 8100 searches for San Diego Real Estate, 50 searches, San Diego Mortgage. Realistically, I bet you like 25 or 30 of those 50 are probably guys in San Diego that do mortgage trying to see if they come up on the first page of Google or not. Same with the Real Estate, but it's just interesting to see how much more volume you get on Real Estate and that's why the realtors get the leads first, the home buyers as backwards as it is, they go out looking for their dream home, realtors get the leads first and they make the mortgage guys dance or mortgage gals dance for the leads. We want to look at it as how can we get in front of these people before the realtors get a chance to. So we can generate our own consumer direct leads and then share those leads with the realtors. So if we can start to market these realtors listings and help them promote their properties and use those listings as a vehicle to get people into our mortgage pre-approval tools just like Zillow does. If you go look at any real estate listing on Zillow, you're going to see a number of conversion points where they drive you right from that real estate listing into their Zillow long form lead capture. So they use the real estate to catapult people into their Zillow long form and that's just the vehicle that they use to generate their mortgage leads. Well mortgage folks can be doing the exact same thing and then sharing those leads with their realtors. Okay so question on the San Diego real estate keyword term as you said right 8,000 searches for that in a given month. How do we though compete on those terms because those are obviously still high value terms and you see who's coming up the top right Zillow realtor.com Julia Redfin. So how can a loan officer compete on that? Great question. Okay so a couple things. One, I paint that picture just to help always kind of understand the state of what people are looking for online. It's just first off just getting a grasp of okay there's going to be a lot more activity on the real estate angle. Doesn't mean that you're going to come up now number one or you have a chance of targeting you know real estate organically real estate related key phrases. It's more just getting understanding of the fact that you got like a hundred times the amount of people looking for real estate than there are people looking for mortgage and then you can start to think and look at what are some different ways that knowing that people are a lot more interested in real estate than mortgage. What are some different ways that can position myself as a mortgage originator to get in front of those kinds of eyeballs. So again doing doing real estate marketing for a single property sites that they have to be optimized to convert leads you know a lot I see a lot of sites out there. It's just like hoping a wish that the person's going to actually like that listing. There's no actual other way to effectively convert that buyer into a lead if they don't like the property. You know a lot of broken lead capture and broken contact forms that just aren't optimized to convert that I see littered all over these single property sites. So you can do a single property site you got to optimize it to convert leads but that's a great way to market real estate listings while partnering with your realtors and using their listings as a vehicle to generate buyer leads for yourself that you can then share with your realtors. And then also looking at okay so if I do some searches locally and I start identifying communities that I'm interested in targeting and I find myself the realtors. Let's forget about the zilos and the trulias and all these big entities that we're not going to do much with. They're going to just ask us to pay of course for marketing on those sites but looking at what are some of the actual organic listings and the other paid listings that are just like actual realtors and agents in the area that are paying because the cost per click on something like San Diego mortgage rates for example it's like 8 10 12 bucks a click 20 bucks a click for refinance keywords then you look at like San Diego real estate it's like two bucks a click $1.50 $3 a lot more volume a lot less cost per click so it's doable for agents to target these kinds of key phrases it's not out of the realm of their budget whereas mortgage key phrases a lot of times it's just a lot of the big boys you can compete and you can get there but it's going to be pretty expensive going after key phrases that don't even get typed in that often but when you look at these realtor sites and looking at okay so how can maybe I partner up with these realtors and what I love to do is just to find some of the current agents you're working with and if those agents aren't that good or if you're just you want to expand beyond your current realtor database and look at new agent opportunities do some recon work take a look at their websites I can't tell you how often I look at a realtor website with a loan officer we just start laughing because we're not laughing at the realtor we're just laughing at the mess that we find when you start to look at for example the realtors got a featured mortgage section on their site it's called like mortgage center you click on this it's like one of the main tabs on their site I guess who freaking snuck into that mortgage center you got like this little widget for Zillow that hijacks their traffic and you click into their mortgage center and Zillow basically gives out these free widgets that just hijack realtor traffic realtors don't even know about it in most cases are all cool free little calculator from Zillow I'm going to put it on my mortgage center and you click on that mortgage calculator the second you click on it it's buy by a realtor and now you're sitting on Zillow's mortgage rate table so they give these widgets out for free and then they steal your traffic and they back linked to Zillow so they now are also beating you out for your search engine placement because they've got mortgage and real estate related key phrases tied into these links that then take you off of your website back to Zillow you don't get paid for the click you don't get paid for the lead you're paying Zillow a lot of times or a website provider that sometimes even has relationships with some of these companies where they build the stuff just right into their websites because they've got like an affiliate deal where any clicks we drive we've got you know 10,000 realtors use our system so every one of these sites just by default has a mortgage section that by default links to Zillow or mortgage 101.com or any of these like lead generation entities and for them it's great because now they've got 10,000 real estate websites that are pointing back to them helping their search engine rankings and driving free traffic. I take a look at that and how could we fix that for you Mr. Realtor? Let's remove that widget that's hijacking your traffic and let's stick a lead generation funnel the same kind of funnel that lending tree and lower my bills and Zillow and Trulia are using but we're going to generate that lead for you and I together and we're going to supply you with that landing page you know whether you break down the landing page on a per landing page deal or however you want to deal you know the cost and the rest but all that to make sure you're compliant but just being able to offer good solid lead generation tools and strategies and education to your realtors and a way to help them build their business so you can actually piggyback off of their marketing help them get more leads share on the leads with the realtors and angle yourself where you're being able to take advantage of the fact that there's a lot more interest in real estate simply by getting yourself linked up to more realtor sites that are getting good traffic and you can just do searches locally for you know Irvine real estate Irvine homes for sale ranchers Hannah Margarita homes for sale real estate condos whatever the key phrase might be you can just go down the list to Google and find the people that are already on the first page and that's a great prospecting list to start targeting and going after wow that's pretty cool I like that wow it's very good stuff very good stuff so we only have a couple of minutes left you've given a ton of great advice and guidance for those listening and how to get smart with digital marketing if somebody wants to check check out more about you how would you recommend they reach out and contact you best places is lead pops dot com right on there there's a lot of good information about our services or products right off the homepage we've got a call to action that offers a free 30 day trial you can just jump in and launch 32 funnels free 30 day trial no cost no risk but you can launch these funnels literally within a couple minutes we just ask you to upload your logos and basic information and bam you've got 32 different lead gen funnels for all different kinds of loan and real estate scenarios that you can start literally right from there start plugging into your marketing into anything that you're currently doing and you know a lot of clients if they've got already their name out there and they're they're doing some marketing they've got traffic they see results very quickly if you're new to the game or you're interested in launching some different marketing and you're not really that familiar with it we do offer coaching and consulting as part of the program so we're here to to set our clients up for success offer support so no matter way to to kind of dive in and get some results or to kind of see what this is all about then you want to lead pops dot com and and signing up for a free 30 day trial yeah and you've definitely got the results obviously on your website you share any like one particular story of a mortgage company loan officer that stands out in terms of how they came to you broken in bleeding and perhaps and how you fixed them well there's so many of them we've got a ton of them on the site as you just mentioned there's a review section and then also I mean just just recently the other day I've got a client I'm not gonna I'm gonna say his full name but he's a great guy he's worked with me on like the funnels aspect of it just doing funnels with the social media and different marketing but he's had this like this busted website and he's he's kept it and he and I have talked about fixing his site up and I don't really strong on anybody or try to hard sell anyone I just told him a number of times when you're ready well fix your website because you're doing all this other marketing but your website still busted so all this other marketing that you're doing is is not not performing as well as it could be because the site's not built to capture lead so it's been six months he spent eighteen thousand dollars on a another web system and a company driving traffic after six months he just finally got out of the contract he called it quits early hit me up on Facebook and said and I'm ready to do a site with you we launched this new site within about five days just literally two days after he goes live he says I'm ready to write you another testimonial man this thing is converting like a machine it's just literally all you did was put my domain name on a site that was built to capture leads and all of a sudden all these leads are coming in that weren't coming in before and all you did was kind of fix fix the conversion element all of a sudden I'm getting all this all these results from traffic that was already coming to my site but was just slipping through the cracks and it's just it's conversion optimization that can do wonders for you if you're already doing marketing it's it's literally an easy fix for us it's a layup if you're not we can help you out but build the foundation for us don't go spending more money on advertising and starting starting different things to to get more exposure if your foundation isn't built to capture you're not going to get the results from it you're just going to keep jumping from one one thing to the next the next shiny object that pops up and it'll it's not going to work just fix the foundation and then everything else would kind of fall into place and we're here to partner with you that's great do you give them some guidance during that free 30 day trial yeah absolutely we do one on one calls with every single client that signs up we've got a marketing vault that every client that signs up as instant access to whether they stay on board or not they've got instant access to all these marketing materials that we've got we do videos so we really get hands on the the more clients interact and work with us the more successful they are so we're definitely here to partner with you and the coaching and the consulting is an ongoing thing that we do for our clients so that's awesome I'd say one the biggest thing I think I'd like about you and your processes you're not just trying to sell a bright shiny object and put a bandaid on the problem you're looking at from the ground up which is really as you've said what the big boys do the guys who have got millions of dollars right bringing that level of expertise to you know the loan officer side of things and I think that's why the results speak for for themselves so you're doing a great service out there obviously for mortgage real estate insurance once again lead pops dot com and I can't thank you enough for being here I really appreciate your time today man shared a lot of value thanks Jeff for having me as great anytime all right for those listening hope you like today's episode and if you did please make sure to leave us a comment leave us a review on iTunes stitch here if you haven't subscribed do so on either one of those two channels love to get your feedback reach out in an email to me anytime info at mortgage marketing institute dot com make sure you check out lead pops dot com they've got a great platform great service and I do appreciate you listening and I will see you on the next one thanks for listening to mortgage marketing radio one more truth in mortgage marketing get more free training and resources at mortgage marketing institute dot com hey guys what's up real quick you've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business let's just face it agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you well good news our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes expert training videos a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market attracting convert agents into referral partners plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug-and-play content to make promoting your class getting agents butts and seeds partnering with affiliates real easy but that's not all you'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top elbows authors speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market and as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months and we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents so what are you waiting for you can check out more at mortgage marketing dot pro see more of the success stories there and if you feel compelled to do so book a call we'll have a chat we'll see if it's a fit don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now head over to mortgage marketing dot pro