Ep 53: How to Achieve a Breakthrough With Todd Duncan

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this week's episode of mortgage marketing radio. You know, whenever I interview a quote successful person, a highly productive person, somebody who's making a real difference or an impact in their business or in their community or with their families, somebody who just seems to really be, you know, living life at that higher level, I always find that there's a mentor sometimes behind the scene, right, or a coach or something. And today I have the pleasure of bringing to you someone who has been my mentor from a distance for quite a number of years since 2002 to be exact. That's none other than Todd Duncan. Now, many of you listening hopefully are familiar with Todd Duncan and who he is because the impact he's had on the mortgage industry has been significant and phenomenal, probably ranked at the very top of the list among the most impactful, most influential mentor, coach, trainer, teacher for a large majority of the highly productive, successful, well balanced mortgage originators in the country over the last 25 plus years. And if you haven't heard of Todd, well, this is your introduction to him. I think you're going to be extremely pleased. You'll find it refreshing. And for those of you that know Todd, well, then you know what to expect, all good stuff. And in today's conversation, right, we unpack this concept of having a breakthrough. And this year, sales mastery celebrates its 25th year. And the theme for this year is all about having a breakthrough, right? And I love how Todd talks about on this episode about having a breakthrough, having a breakdown and what's the psychology that we need to work through that and what does a breakthrough look like for you specifically in your business. And then we also get into some real tactics, right, about some of the issues that many of you I talk to face on a regular basis, which is how do I get better connection with real estate agents? How do I increase my conversion rate with getting more business from realtors? How do I get past the price conversation and have a better conversion with clients? How do I build a business that I can manage in a business that doesn't control me? We get into all that. This is a power packed, you know, 35 minutes or so that I'm just so grateful that Todd took time from his busy schedule to share. So if you haven't yet registered for sales mastery, go here, go to salesmastoryevent.com and register. It's October 3rd through the 6th in San Diego. And it is a collection, a gathering of the brightest, the greatest, the most authentic caring and sharing mortgage professionals that I've ever found, right, with all the events that I go to. And it is a transformational experience. If you're looking to have a breakthrough, if you are looking to close out 2017 strong and build significant momentum as you enter 2018 with a plan, a purpose, right, and a passion to pursue your business and to achieve your goals, this is the event for you. Do not take it lightly. Do not pass, go right to salesmastoryevent.com and register for this event. I guarantee you it will be transformational for you as it has been for myself and tens of thousands of others who've gone through this process with Todd over the years. So sit back, listen, take notes, enjoy, most importantly, apply and take action on the lessons from this week's episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio with my mentor and friend, Todd Duncan. Todd Duncan, welcome to the show. Jeff, good to be with you. What's going on? A lot's going on. For both you and I, you know, you got a lot coming up, 25th anniversary of salesmastory this year. We're going to talk about that. I was actually watching a video you did with Dave Savage a while back and I think you got a new book in the works as well. So we'll talk about that. But I want to kind of set the stage. First of all, it's just a great, you know, you know, thank you and gratitude for you making time from this. A, knowing how busy you are, but B, you probably don't know the, I mean, you've probably heard this a number of times in over 25 years, you know, the level of impact you've had on an individual, but you know, you've definitely had that on me. I can remember as an originator back in 2003, countrywide home loans, me, me renting, renting or taking out the salesmastory CDs from my salesmanager's library and nobody else was using those. And I'm like, why isn't anybody listening to these CDs, man? So I had those in my car and man, that was my roadmap for, you know, because I came out of a, a subprime, you know, internet lead broker shop and my story is, I remember reading the articles that you had published in like mortgage region or magazine and all these like top producers that are doing that 50 million, 100 million in volume, and you know, I go to my broker and I'm like, hey, man, there's people doing like 50 million a year, you know, and he goes, he goes, well, that's companies. That's not individuals. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. No, man. Right. So I was like, where can I find the best source of like how to really build a business as a mortgage professional, right? Not just be a, you know, a phone jockey, right? And so that's why that's how I came across your info and really went all in and I really just, you know, took the heart, your scripts, your talk tracks, your, your, your partnering with, you know, affiliates and, and building that whole kind of trusted conversation into my sales process. So I just want to take a moment to say, man, high five, thank you for helping me get on the right path. You know, the, the greatest joy Jeff in, in my life is when something like this just takes place, you know, whether it's on the phone or, you know, in person, when somebody looks at me and says, you know, you've had an influence in my life, you've changed my life, you know, as, as an author and a speaker and a guy that they really wants to speak truth at the end of the day, there's no greater joy than having somebody know that, that their life has been changed. And you know, all the credit goes to the student, all the credit goes to the person who, who not only hears the truth, but acts on that truth and trusts that truth. And you know, what, what success is, is it's repeated truth, executed all the time. And if the, if you stay on the track and you stay on what is truth and what connects with people and what works. And especially in our industry, you get, and get away from the, the smoking mirrors and the, the bait and switch and you get into real deep connected relationship, magic happens. And it's just, it's great. So, so thanks, thanks for sharing that, because I, I wake up and I told my wife, I told my wife yesterday, I said, you know, it's so great, because I got three emails just three morning, all from three people who in the previous week just tried something, trusted it, used it, and it worked. And it's just, I looked at it and I said, you know, my day is complete when somebody says you changed my life. And I just say, you know what, you changed your life, I just get to be along for the ride. So, cool to be with you. Awesome. Well, cool to have you. I'm a little listener here today. So before we kind of dive into it here, I always find this is the case and I know a little bit about your history as a matter of fact, you used to originate back in Orange County, didn't you? Yeah, I was, I actually started, started in origination in 1980. The economy was in the tank, you know, unemployment was at an all time high, prime was 20 FHA. And VA was 16 and a half and five or six points, consumer confidence was in the tank and we were in a recession and nobody was doing business and I did my first loan in November of 1980. And yeah, so I did that for 11 years and halfway through, I started getting asked by my company to start training the new LOs because I was the top guy in the company and so I started training the new LOs and they started succeeding and then I started training more and more the LOs and my company started hiring more and more LOs and pretty soon the Duncan group was birthed and, you know, I transitioned my mortgage practice and started this company in April of 1992 and here we are. You know, it's funny about that. So did you work out or did your company have an office in Anaheim like around the stadium? We did. Yes, we did. We have one in Tuston, one in Anaheim. And remember being in that office, looking for you. You might have already formed the Duncan group by then, but man, I mean, I heard about know who you were. So I remember being in that office and I'm like, this is where God don't give me his man. Anyway, that's awesome. So here's a question, right? Many people, as you know, high achieving people often have a moment or a mentor or something you know, a significant event that occurs when they make that pivot or the lights go on that kind of epiphany and that shifts the direction in the course of their lives. And I'm wondering, you know, if there was a mentor or a moment or a pivot moment for you that changed the course of your business or life. Yeah. So from an original standpoint, this was really fresh Jeff because I just approved a Todd Duncan TV episode that is on our YouTube channel and it was called the decision of a lifetime. And in the video, I was talking about the idea that when I began, I didn't understand the power of relationships. I didn't understand the reality of trust, even though I had good values. I didn't really appreciate this idea, which has come to be birthed of, you can actually achieve more by narrowing your focus and going deeper with human beings instead of, you know, trying to be everything to everyone. And in this 14 minute video, I talk about this decision and the decision I made that answers your question is I made a decision very early on probably my, I'm guessing maybe two months in the business because of somebody that was in my life that I saw executing the marketplace and following his kind of lead, I chose a path of relationships that would yield transactions instead of a path of transactions that would yield revenue. And I learned from my mentor that that you can make a living doing loans, but you can make a fortune building relationships. So for me, the turning point very early in my origination career was I'm not going to try to be everything to everyone. I mean, I had, I had well over 400 agents in the ecosystem that I could call on and, and I decided that I was going to build my business model around 20 and within two years it was down to seven and in, in, in the remaining 10 years of originating in those seven agents and their teams were my bread and butter. Wow. Seven agents. Yeah. Those must have been high producing agents. Well, so that's the whole more from less philosophy and what people need to understand it. And this is not just about real estate agents. This is about life. The idea of superficial relationships lead to shallow results. You can get a one-off referral here and you might get a lead there and you might get some traction here, but when you are shallow and you are wide, you are nothing to everyone. And when you make a decision that you're going to narrow your focus and go deeper to the right people, you become everything to that group. And the narrower the group, the more of you they get. And that's the, that's the thing that most LOs completely miss. They, they're transactional and they're doing one-offs here and there and they might be doing 20 of them that way every single month, but it's a, it's a chaotic approach. It's a, usually a, a low value kind of low price kind of, you're always being compared and you're always being shopped and you're hustling better than the next guy. And, and all that is well and good. But if you want to build a sustainable mortgage practice, you have to have business partners. You have to have people that control ecosystems, you know, 100, 200, 300 people, employers, CEOs, agents that have two or 300 past clients, you've got to have people that, that have influence. And, and once you have relationship with the people that have influence, you simply build that relationship and the deeper that relationship goes, the more influence you will have. So I had one agent, for example, and this, this is still relevant today to what 20, 29 or 30 years later, I had one agent that, that in a period of three and a half years gave me almost $70 million in, in business. And in my average loan amount back then, I don't think it was $100,000 yet. So that shows you the sheer volume of what can happen when, when you deepen your relationship to be able to do $20 million in volume with one agent, even today, some substantial number unless they're living on the coast and they do one deal, you know. Right. Okay. So a question around that, because in, you know, you've heard, you kind of know where I'm going here. So yeah, so loan offices are listening to this, they hear that and conceptually the, oh, yeah, I get it, man, right? But we know then that how does this, how does this shift happen? There's two shifts that happen. One, I think, is in the mindset, right, on the belief system. And then two is the, the, the, the approach in the strategy. So for those LOs that are listening, saying, hey, that sounds great, Todd, but I got realtors that are, you know, I got my bottom feeders or I have people that do the three card thing. So when you hear those responses from LOs, which I know you have, what's, what's like some, some, you know, direction we can give them? Well, I think that it, first of all, gets down to an idea that, um, a most LOs that they were looked in the mirror and they were really, really honest with themselves. Most of them would agree that they're not following up like they need to with people that they desire deeper relationships with. They're not adding value like they should with people that they, they, they want deeper relationships with. And so, you know, if, if I've got, uh, let's just pick a number. If I've got 40 people in the last year that are in the agent business and, you know, I'm getting some, some pretty good traction with two or three of them. And then I got the rest of the people where I'm getting a one off or a two off, you can actually decide what you would like to have. And so when we do business planning and high-trust coaching, we ask people, don't any answer, you know, what's your income goal and what's your average long amount? But we want you, you know, what's your average net basis points, you know, that you're making on your deals. And, you know, what is your conversion rate of, of conversations that lead to applications that get triggered to a, a loan app and submitted a processing and, you know, what is that final pull through rate? Those are metrics we measure. But the interesting thing is the other number we measure is this question. How many qualified referred buyers do you want per month, per partner, right? And if you don't know the number, then you can't make the phone call. So if I pick the number eight and right now it's one, I have to begin to look at, of the people I'm calling on, who are the ones that I know want to grow their business, who are the ones that maybe, you know, Jeff, it's interesting that if a buyer's Asian talks to 10 buyers and, and three have a lender and, and three approve somewhere else, the loan officer on a lucky day might get four conversations. But if I can start to embed my, my value prop and, you know, if I can start to use language that, that most loan officers don't use with borrowers. And if I can be a person of second opinion to a person that's already pre-approved or knows a lender or I can ask a question like, has your lender done a total cost analysis on, you know, what this mortgage is going to cost you both in the near and long term? And the answers are no, I can start to pull from agents more and more buyers from the ecosystem that are already serving. So I need to then make the phone call and I can say, I can say to an agent, you know, Joe, I've done some evaluation last week and I'm serving way too many agents. I want to near my focus and I want to add more value to a few. You're one of them. In order to do that, I'd love to come by, sit down with you, have a conversation about some of the things that you want to do in your business, some of the ways that I think I can add value. And if at the end of that conversation it sounds good to you, then I'd like to become a more permanent part of your lending solution. And then it becomes, Jeff, a follow up on a weekly basis in the, in, in, in the Hydro Sales Academy. We talk about six magical weekly questions that an L.O. can ask an agent that just dominate referrals and, and you watch, you just watch the business scale up. There's one of our students in, in Oklahoma, Cody, Cody came through this program and Cody's at 400 months a year minimum funding right now, four years, five years after coming through the Academy because he just decided to go deep with whales and it's not an overnight deal. It's for you to be something to your clients, you have to connect with those clients more regularly and systematically. Absolutely. Good point. And that's a great transition into, you know, from your book, High Trust Selling, I love that you've got the laws in there and, to, to talk about one of those for a second, I believe it's the law of dress rehearsal, right? Yeah. That, and so this means to me as, as I heard about it and listen to it and read it is, you know, the, the word scripting and, and people have various associations and scripting, right? But it's funny because when I coach LLs and I'm, you know, I ask them. So, so when you meet with agents, you know, what questions do you ask them? And by and large, it's like the same old, same old, right? Nobody goes deep. And I'm wondering, what, it really frustrates me. I'm like, why? I mean, there's the LLs that don't even ask, like, you know, the standard stuff, how many units, transactions, what's important to you. That's what I love about you with the law of the dress rehearsal and the, you know, the resources you provide is scripting. So how can we help people, like, take that on more and get over the beliefs they've got about scripting? I mean, you hear the law. I'm sure too, right? Well, I think the interesting thing is that everybody needs to own the fact that you're already scripted. You're just horrible. You're already, you're just horrible of what you're saying, right? That's good. Like, scripted at. Well, we all have autopilot. We all are scripted in, in, in so many different ways. I would change scripting to being a standalone to, you know, questions and dialogues. And, you know, one of the things that we know about a high-trust relationship is there's a tremendous amount of interest in the human being that you would like a relationship with. It's the yellow that takes the spotlight off himself and inputs it squarely on the face and the, and the personhood of whomever it is, whether it be a buyer, a builder, a developer, a realtor. And so, so the interesting thing, though, is in the dialogues, most yellows do not have a strategic list of questions that they own that could facilitate then a dialogue. I'll give you, I'll give you an example. I will never leave a conversation with a real estate agent without asking, what are your dreams and goals for the next two to three years? Okay. I want to know that number and I want to know that number, I want to know that answer because if I know the answer, then I can ask you if you have a plan. And if I ask you if you have a plan, and then I can ask you how it's working. And if you tell me it's a six and a great plan is a 10, then I can come alongside you and help with that. I can have a leads conversation with you. I can never referrals conversation with you. I can have a, what is your business plan look like for the next 24 months and they say, you know, I'm not really sure. Or where would you like your business to be at the end of the year in 2019? I'm not really sure. Let's just open dialogues about how I can come together and help you organize that. You know, what are the great, what's this question? What are the greatest pressures you're feeling in business today? And how can I help? Wow. That's a good one. You know, those, and all they are, Jeff, they're not, I'm not scripted. I'm not, you know, behind the curtain trying to figure out how to manipulate you. I truly care. It's natural curiosity, true desire, right, which I love what you said. You have a natural, you know, you're caring. It's actual, it's authentic. So I love that you just brought that up. Yeah, and watch this. Nobody, nobody will ever fault you for being interested in them. Most LOs, they'll think that they have to have this kind of secret sauce that they're, and there's nothing secret about it. Let me take some. The best strategic, unique selling proposition on the planet is trust. It's, I mean, you know, you got a book on sales and marketing. You grew, you grew up, you understand this kind of stuff in, in our industry. All the sales and marketing in the world is worthless if you're not connecting. If you're not connecting, it's just noise and it's, and it's just, it's non-differentiated. It's non-disrupted. You want to disrupt the world, show an interest in a human being. You want to disrupt your business, ask an agent questions they haven't been asked in 21 years of being a real estate professional. That's how you script. That's how you dialogue. Huge. I love it. That's great. And that brings, to me, top of mind, the book that I referenced earlier, you're coming out with a new book, right? I am. I'm coming out with a new book, but it's not that title. Okay. Well, I, by the way, I totally think, though, that what we're talking about, has everything to do with being top of mind. And in fact, I'll tell you, I've got two guys that I talked to in the last two days that they're in our elite coaching group, and these guys are just monsters. They are, they are moving volume like you have never believed in your life. And one of the things that's exciting is they're doing it by creating this radical trust value proposition and, and having borrowers that go through a deep, high trust interview with the, the L.O. Going back to the real estate agent and saying, this is like the most amazing thing I've ever experienced. And we're going to unleash that at, at sales mastery. My point in bringing that up is that, that because of that, his agents are telling him, I'm not only going to refer every buyer to you that doesn't have a lender, I'm going to fall on the sword to make sure I refer every buyer to you that does have a lender. And by the way, when I perform a buyer interview and presentation in a, in a way that is five star, and I tell you, this is the start of a 20 year relationship, you bet, you bet you're going to have me at top of mind because I'm going to earn it every single day. So our, our book that just came out, and it was called Five Stars, Building High Trust and High Ratings in the Digital Age. And I'll just say, say to all your listeners that you don't have a choice today. If, if you do not architect a five star experience with every bar where you talk with and every agent and builder and referral partner that you have, you are losing strategically and you are becoming noise in the marketplace today. You know, Jeff, I mean, anybody can immediately rate something, right? And today, people make decisions on what part of the fifth star is in color, and so top of mind is a huge conceptation. Your borrowers should never doubt for the rest of their life that you are their mortgage partner, you're their home loan advisor, you're their strategic mortgage coach, whatever words you want to use and differentiate. I love that. So let me ask you about that a little bit because I hear this often on, on coaching calls that I do. So just to give you some color on that. So some of the comments would be, well, I think also people maybe don't understand what that really means or sounds like. And behind that is this external pressure from people like, you know, rocket mortgage etc. To kind of take the emotion out, right? And what you're saying proposing is, no, do the opposite, am I correct? Well, so, so here's the watch us, this is huge. If you don't connect, you can't convert, and if you can't convert, you cannot cement that relationship. So what digital anything does is it removes connection on anything beyond price and what we know in high value transactions, which by and by and at home and financing home is a high value transaction. What we know is that there still is a deep desire in the largest buying populations we have, which would be the millennial population and the front half of the baby boom regeneration. What we know about those two generations is that they value connection. And so even though you've got technology and even though you have digital platforms and this and that, a digital platform does not ask or answer the question, what is the most important thing to you about this home loan? Okay, the digital, the digital app doesn't ask, are you only interested in a 30 year fixed rate loan or would you be open to any mortgage strategy that helps you achieve your financial goals? A digital app doesn't do that, right? And so in high trust, you've got to have high trust, you've got to support it with high tech and you still have to have high touch, otherwise the thing doesn't work. But the difference today is the high trust high tech L.O. It's still involved in the process in a deeper way than ever because they're asking the questions that digital doesn't ask. And this is not new. My brother's a top financial planner in Orange County. He meets everybody face to face. You can go to Scott Trade, you can go to your trade, you can do all your stuff online. His clients don't they meet with him. And you've got to decide, it's better than that value. And so that brings up the question that I'm talking to L.O. is right and they're trying to scale their business, they're in this place of so how much are they involved? And I've heard the kind of the doctor patient example in the past, right? The L.O. is the doctor kind of doing the high end, where's it hurt kind of thing? But then they pass them out to their team. But could you sketch out like from the mega producers you're seeing that you referred to there? Maybe what that process looks like that's still high touch and high tech at the same time? Are they still actively engaged on the front end? Yeah, so in it all varies, you know, our kind of our sweet spot is that there's somewhere between a 30 and 45 minute consultation that involves the L.O. and the client. And L.O.A.s can sit in that. You know, people that are going to help facilitate the transaction can be part of that just like in the doctor's office. I think a lot of people maybe have over corrected or underestimated the power of what the whole delegated five star experience looks like. But the guys that I'm coaching right now, I think I can probably say are 30 to 45 minutes. And then they have team members that take over, you know, doc aggregation and, and you know, using systems like flow via Maxwell and uploading documents. I mean, that's that's stuff that the that the L.O.A.s, you know, in the in the world of high trust doesn't have to do. But I would remind everybody, it's not as important to to answer that question with finality as it is to answer the question, you know, whatever time you spend with the bar or what are you doing to really, really create a connected relationship? And, and then I think is the difference maker. And you know, when you look at when you look at the idea that the whatever happens up front is by far the most important. And that first impression and then that follow up impression. And then the sustained impression are the most important things. So you've got to have a people on your team. You got to have good players on your team that can be an extension of you. I had a surgery last year for prostate cancer and, you know, I had a two hour meeting with one person on the doctor's team that walked us through everything before and everything after the doctor could have done that. But it's not his sweet spot financially. And so don't overcorrect, don't make it, you know, so pristine that there's no connection. And yet, don't overdo it. I think far too often if you getting back to your first point, if you don't have a clarity around questions and dialogue, we have a whole, we have a whole video system on the the high trust bar or presentation. You can just model it, just model it, copy it, model it and do it and your conversion rate will go sky high, north of 65% to loans that go to processing and north of 95% that's settled. But if you don't have that, you have a lot of uncertainty during processing. Yeah, and that's very relevant to a conversation I had earlier this week with a particular person who's, you know, definitely a higher producer, probably, you know, 40, 50 million, right? Not a mega, but, you know, definitely respectable, you know, but in certain markets, depending on the lender, right, price is more of a sensitive issue. And so whenever I hear an LL tell me, you know, I'm losing X amount of deals based on price, what I'm hearing is they're not doing the things you and I just talked about creating that connection up front. And some LLs may respond like that's BS, but that's my belief. Well, you know, with the exception of high balance, you know, issues where sometimes you just can't compete with some of the big, big box banks, you know, that aren't, you know, they're paying 40 basis points and they get a client for three years. So they make nine points on the deal by, you know, offering a half a point lower rate. You just sometimes you can't compete on that stuff, but here's the deal. Anytime you get price resistance, the elixir for it, the solution for it is an injection of advice. And so your price resistance is a function of people don't see the value and the advice that you've offered. And so if you hit this at the front end, I'll give you this, this could be worth everything to your listeners. In our book, Five Stars, we have a chapter called Story Selling. The idea is that story selling has a hero to it. Every story has a hero. Every story has a villain and every story has somebody who wins, right? So the buyer has to win the villain. If you're the LLLC this, the villain is any other lender and the hero is you helping the client win. So it sounds like this, unlike most lenders, I approach real estate financing differently. Okay. Most lenders will, how I am different is, most law officers will, how I am different is, most law officers will quote you a rate. But very few will help you integrate that rate into your long and short term goals. How I am different is I spend 45 minutes with each and every one of my clients. I outline your long and short term financial goals. I outline what you would like to accomplish with this mortgage and this investment. I help you pull all that together in what we call a customized home loan mortgage strategy. And at the end of the day, I check in with you every 90 days after we close to make sure for the rest of your life where man and junior mortgage instead of you managing it. That is Story Selling, right? And if you know how to say that and do it, the competition is irrelevant. You don't have competition. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. We're moving the conversation away from price to advice. Well, and in the worst case scenario, average loan amount in America, it's like we're talking about, how do you create enough value to overcome a $20 a month price issue? That's what we're talking about. That's true, right? You break it down for them. Which of course is, you know, shout out to our mutual friend Dave Savage at Mortgage Coach, part of the reason why we're talking. If you don't have Mortgage Coach, you have the software, you need to check it out. It creates that incredibly high-value, trusted, modern mortgage experience from the outset. Yeah, right on. Yeah. So, in the last couple of minutes we have, I want to get the sales mastery in a second, but I figured, hey, I got Detail Duncan on the phone, so I'll throw a couple of often, you know, frequent ones I hear. This is one, of course, just from the other day. You know, it's the post-realtor meeting. All this is awesome because it goes really back to what we talked about that connection. But, okay, I met with a realtor, you know, there's great synergy, you're all, you know, getting along, you know, but I still don't have any business. And I'm calling them every week and they're taking my calls and yada-da-da-da-da, but how come I'm not getting any deals? What did you say to that? Well, Coach, so there's a difference between calling them every week and asking them the right questions weekly. Okay, so here's, I'll give you two right now. Question number one, who have you met in the last seven days that you want to sell real estate two or four and you're not sure they're going to use you? Last question one, okay. Question two, who are you showing property to this week that I have not had a consultation with that and so doing would help equip them to optimize their purchase power when you show them property? Those two questions right there are out of our bag of eight, I think that we have eight specific ad renovation. We have nine specific questions that you can ask every week. Being up is great, except if you don't have a reason why you're following up that benefits the client. And if I can ask you who you came across this week in your open houses or on social media or in your not sure they're going to use you and I can partner with you and reach out to them on your behalf and we can kind of tackle them together and I can become an extension of your conversion process and I can add value in that regard that's huge. And I can talk to buyers who have not looked at property yet but who know another lender or approved and I can do something uniquely differently than their lender has done. You look like a hero, you win, they win, I mean there's no harm, no fouls. So I think to that question is what is the strategy if you don't do a high trust interview with a realtor which takes between 45 and 90 minutes and you figure out what are the things that we're going to do in the next 90 to 100 days together. We don't have an intentional reason to follow up anyway. Follow up alone does not convert and yield business. Intentional follow up with purposeful questions does. Well that's awesome man. Thank you, you're right. That was an education class right there and one of the things you also say is most sales people are asking the wrong questions, right? How can they get more sales, make more money? The better questions are the ones that go deep and build trust. Well the bottom line is you should all go through a radical reframe. The highest paid people in the world don't sell they help and you're not a sales person, you're a solutionist and your job is to come up with solutions and if your solutions are better than your competition then you win and your solutions are worse than your competition you lose. So most of your competition doesn't think solution. They think alone, they think selfishly and they think about income and compensation. If you take the onus off of thinking that way and you realize that my income is a direct reflection of the value I add to the marketplace and if I want a 10x on my income I got a 10x my value and the only way you can 10x value is by asking deeper questions and providing more intentional meaningful solutions and if you do that then you get a hockey stick in your business unlike anything you've ever seen. I got guys and gals right now that are making $100,000 a month that five years ago we're making $10,000 a month and they're doing it not by seeing more people they're doing it not by selling harder they're doing it not by doing more auto marketing they're doing it by having a more connected experience with the client and offering them real solutions in a real world that is cladded by digital noise and marketing that just simply doesn't exist. So that's the answer. Stop selling, start helping. Yeah, love it, love it. Awesome. Cool. So let's take a past couple of minutes here and talk about sales mastery, 25 years of doing sales mastery. Man, kudos to you really awesome. It's to me it's the premier event in this industry you've had over 50,000 LOs and agents go through this and this year the topic is breakthrough. So somebody's listening they're they want to break through tell them how why sales mastery is the place they're going to get that breakthrough. Well, so first of all, it's the it's the best ecosystem in the world for you to learn grow and get better. And so every year when we develop a theme we develop a theme around what we're seeing in the marketplace. And so breakthrough was a byproduct of recognizing that in a coaching and mentoring experience breakthroughs are happening and everybody needs breakthroughs. Some of us more than others, but we need breakthroughs, we need financial breakthroughs, we need health breakthroughs, we need business development breakthroughs, we need marketing breakthroughs. And so the idea is that most people don't experience the breakthrough because they don't have strategy around managing the breakdowns. And so what we're going to do for four days is we're going to unpack with seven keynote speakers, 21 different panelists and 15 committed sponsors. We're going to unpack how to produce the breakthroughs in your business and your life that you need. I'm going to start an opening night, we're going to go hard for four days. I think every success, and this is the important thing for everybody here, every success that is ever been achieved has required a breakthrough. Some small, some big, but there's nothing, nothing that has ever been a great success that did not require this attitude towards breaking through the resistance, going beyond where everybody else goes beyond, reframing the breakdown that is leading you one step further to the breakthrough. And so the psychology of the breakthrough, the pragmaticness of breakthroughs, how to orchestrate them, how to strategize them, how to release them and unleash them in your life and your business, that's the theme. So my goal from start to finish is 25 specific breakthroughs that you can take. You don't need all 25. Most of us need two or three and walk away from that and have your life to be different forever. That's awesome. I love the way you mapped it out because that's an actual plan, it's a road map, right? You've got to go through those various steps to get there. So sales mastery breakthrough, October 3rd through the 6th, in San Diego, different location this time. Got to love it. We agree, yeah, we agree with the Marriott and it's a new day, 25 years is the celebrating the end of two and a half decades of the event and celebrating the future of the event. And we're going to make some strategic changes about venue. Now one thing that will remain consistent is the stuff you're going to hear, not hype, not salesy, it is straight to the truth, straight to the heart, it's the stuff that works and that's always been the commitment which is why the brand has lasted longer than any other brand in the marketplace. Oh, clearly, you're clearly making a difference in having an impact and I always like to say, what sales mastery isn't right for everybody. It's only right for those people who truly want to go to that next phase, that next level of being a trusted advisor or fiduciary relationship of going deep and having a connection. If you just want to be, you know, jail phone slap and be transactional, then that's probably this event isn't for you, but that's not most of my listeners. So we're going to put links in the show notes, it's sales mastery event.com, I'll put links to obviously your books and things, other things we talked about in here, but I'm looking forward to it, man, because it's also kind of like a rock concert. It's a big party as well and we have a lot of fun. Wow, we have a lot of fun. We connect in real and deep and meaningful ways. We celebrate success and we enjoy learning from the best minds in the world. So it'll be great to have you guys down there and Jeff, thanks for the chance to be with you today and speak truth to your followers and the people that are counting on you for advice and great to look up with you. It's my pleasure, it's an honor and thank you for being just, you know, true authentic person who you are in the industry and raising the standards for everybody. So thank you so much. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you like this episode, let us know, leave a comment. If you haven't subscribed, please do so. And I hope to see you at sales mastery. Check the show notes sales mastery event.com, October through six, San Diego. Take care, everybody. We'll see you on the next one, bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? 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