Ep #69: Embracing the Digital Mortgage Consumer

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. Hey, I don't know if you're a new listener, if you've been around for a while, hopefully you're liking the episodes and look, one of the ways we grow our audience and add more value to the industry is through you, through our loyal listeners. And so if you haven't yet taken a moment to leave us a review on iTunes, I'd appreciate that if you would. Whatever the platform is, you're listening on iTunes, Stitcher. There's another platform you want us to be on. Let us know. But if you're liking the show and the content, I appreciate those of you who have gone out there and left reviews, I'm grateful for that. And I want to let you know how you can leave a review for us. And that is by simply going to iTunes or Stitcher and leaving us a review. And as a thank you for that, you're going to be rewarded, right? I'm going to send you a free Mortgage Marketing Radio t-shirt. This is some cool swag. I just got, I'm looking over here. I've just got a new stock in, so we've got some large XL sizes. It might be a few mediums in there as well. But you can be amongst the people such as David Brown from Johnson City, Tennessee, who just left us a review, David, your t-shirts on its way to you. As a matter of fact, I got a list of people that I'm sending out t-shirts to today. You could be on that list too. Just leave us a review. And once you do, send me an email, info at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com. Let me know. You left a review, your size and your mailing address, and we'll get you off a t-shirt in the mail. And you know what, even cooler is once you get that t-shirt, hey, we need to get better at social media. Us seasoned loan officers, right? Those of us that are 40 plus, and I'm 10 years more over than 40 plus, actually, 12. But we need to get better at social media, right? So how about if you snap a photo of you on social media, it could be Instagram, it could be Facebook, right, of you sporting the t-shirt. Share that up, tag me, link up to me, and on the inner webs with you and your mortgage marketing radio t-shirt, sport in the swag, and I'll give you a free coaching session. That's right. Just tag me on social media. That way I'll get notified of that. You and your mortgage marketing radio t-shirt, and I'll give you a free coaching session. Just talk through some challenges you have. Maybe you'll just want to air out an idea, maybe get some pointers, best practices. That's what I'm willing to do for you. So that's that. All right. On to this week's show and my very special guest too. I'm just gratefully honored that she's being a part of our show today. I've known Sue for well over 10 years. That is Sue Woodard, chief customer officer at Total Expert and mortgage industry expert. Sue brings over 25 years of mortgage experience, strategic vision, and leadership to the industry. She has been helping loan officers for gosh, well over a decade become better to help loan officers break through barriers and sharpen their skills and get connected to the real passion and understand how to navigate in today's market. In this episode here, what Sue and I are talking about is the tipping point, as she calls it, for 2018, in that this year is going to be a tough year. It's going to be a challenging year. But one that has opportunities as well, and that's simply because I think we're finally at that place of the convergence of technology, starting to really, I shouldn't say starting, it's really kind of reaching this critical mass in the mortgage space where there's lots of talk about being displaced by technology and push button mortgage and all that stuff. So Sue, you know, gosh, she's just such a wealth of knowledge. She was the president of vantage production mortgage success source. You guys may know of them. She was there for gosh, well over 10 years. And as I said, she's now the chief customer officer at total expert, which you'll hear a little bit about that. But we spend the bulk of our time talking about the situation, the current market with multi apps going on and it's easier than ever for people to take to three loan applications and shop you and the tighter margins that are out there in the market. How do we compete in that situation? And what can we do with our personal brand so that we do become the lender of choice? What are some best practices and habits and things like that? And then, you know, some advice and suggestions on how to step up our game, how to adjust for the new modern mortgage originator requirements and demands that are going to be put on thus. Because we either, right, adjust, we they're adapting grow where we wither and die. And so I'm just thrilled to have Sue's perspective of, you know, over 25 years of mortgage industry experience working with leaders. She's just a rock star. Sue is made guest appearances on CNBC. She's got multiple industry honors, including mortgage professional America hot 100 list, the housing wire Vanguard award and the national mortgage professional, most innovative award. And she also serves on the board of hope for youth, her passion project. It's a local nonprofit working to end youth homelessness. So wealth of knowledge, incredible person. Sue is just, you know, she emits energy and empathy and effectiveness. And she's just, right, I just consider my, you know, some people just kind of touch your heart, right? And she shows up in that way on a consistent basis every time I have a chance to talk with Sue. And besides that, she's a little bit crazy because she's a thrill seeker. She's actually cage dive with great white sharks, man, oh, man. So without further ado, let's welcome our very special guest to the show Sue Wooder. Sue, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. It is an honor, a pleasure and a privilege. I'm a fanboy, I guess is what you can say. No, it's not something I hear every day, but I love it. And I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fan of yours. You and I go way back, don't we? I mean, we've had interesting times together. We do, as a matter of fact, for those listeners, how you and I first connected was, gosh, that's probably 10 years ago now, where I was helping out, but who's counting? All right. Who's counting? Getting too old. You and I, we teamed up and I helped you put on a class for your realtors, and it was on the day that your bridge, your main bridge broke in downtown Minneapolis. Yeah. No, as a day of the big bridge collapse, and I always said, the most amazing thing is that it was literally the 35 W bridge that's how everybody would have gotten to where we were at, and we still had a packed house. So you could tell you to bring in the value. 85 agents, I think, still showed up. Yep. Yep. It was awesome. It was awesome, but it was an interesting day. We'll never forget. For sure. Okay. So here we are. 10 plus years later. There's been a few changes, right? There has been a lot of changes, absolutely. So what I want to talk about here with our listeners here today is there's some challenges facing loan officers today, quite a few, right? So I want to kind of unpack these in different order, if you will. And the first one I think that's top of mind for me is, you mentioned earlier before we had record, you know, this is, you see this a tipping point year 2018. Why do you see it as a tipping point? You know, I see this as being a really, really critical year for the originator in terms of changing some of the habits and shaking off old habits and really embracing some new things for a number of reasons. I'll tell you some of the, you know, kind of the perfect storm of things that are arriving that are really going to force us in the industry to make some shifts this year. And this is going to be it. In our actions the next six months, I think are going to be critical to our long-term success. And some of the things that we're seeing in the industry, I mean, certainly digital mortgages, though the talk of the day and what does that mean. And I want to unpack that a little bit as we talk. But when you look at right now, it is estimated that at least 50% of consumers are multi-apping, meaning that when they're applying for a mortgage with you, they are also applying at least one other place, if not, you know, two, three, four, five other places. When I talk to originators out there, originators are saying, I bet it's even higher than that, right? Because it's become so easy, right? You know, rocket started this whole saying of click button gets mortgage, which frankly was just a really awesome marketing scheme. But when it is, you know, when it's possible to do things online, we've made things so easy. Well, you know, people are going out and they're multi-apping. So we've got that. We've got an inventory issue right now. So deals are staying in our pipeline much longer. So how are we nurturing those leads in our pipeline and how are we sure that we're going to get, you know, the opportunity to work with that customer, what does our poll through look like? We're clearly in a purchase market, right? The refives are done. Purchase market requires more engagement of a different type and frankly of a human type because, you know, people are buying homes where their families are going to live, where their life is going to take place. It's very different than a rate in term financial transaction. We've got changing demographics in the mortgage industry and who our customers are. We've got, you know, the millennials are coming of age and buying homes and, you know, they're aged about, you know, 20 to 35 right now, depending on who you ask. So I have a millennial of my own now that I can observe at the so forth. Oh, nice. Yeah, it's a whole, yeah, it's like a little laboratory, I get to observe how she and her friends behave, but it's very different, you know, I mean, it's, and I love it. We're pushing us towards challenging the way that we do things and what the customer experience is like, you know, when people go through getting a mortgage. We're also aging in our industry. Let's face it, what's the average age we're just talking about is it 55, 56, for loan officers, something like that. Right. So, you know, let's face it, we're, you know, we're all aging at the same pace and, you know, that means that we've got to take a look at our own habits and where our heads are at and who we're serving and how we are serving them. And there's just this, you know, an increase in cost, you know, regulatory cost, you know, if you're in a leadership position, you're looking at this every single day with all of the compliance that has come in and it's good that the compliance came in, but it's absolutely driving up the cost of doing a mortgage. So, there's some massive shifts in this industry that are likely to take place. And, you know, Jeff, you and I have both been around in this industry a long time, right? I mean, 20, I've been in this business, you know, gosh, 27 years. And people have been talking about, you know, this kind of change in the industry since the day I entered the business, right? And I know you too. Everybody's always been talking about, oh, someday, you know, computers and robots will do it all. And we always were like, well, you know what? That day has come where the robots are here and this is something though that my message really to originators is although this is a critical year, this is about embracing technology, harnessing it, utilizing it so that you're automating all of the things that you possibly can, but really elevating yourself to have that human touch, that your customers and your referral partners still absolutely survey after survey after survey says they want, they want a human being just at the right time and the right channel and the right place and the right way with the right message. So that's great. Where do you think the balance of meeting face to face in person, balancing that with technology fits in and I know it differs based on loan officer, but, you know, where would you see that fitting in to a loan officer today if they're going to, right, be relevant and current? We've obviously got technology to see. We got to offer that. But does that mean we just, you know, totally never meet with clients? No, I would never say that. In fact, it's very interesting. A lot of times people are under a misconception that they think, you know, it's the millennial who never want to meet with a human being. Very unusually, it's actually that demographic above all others that absolutely do want to meet with a human being. Why do they want to meet with a person? Because in many cases, they've never bought a house before. You also have to remember that that generation who is just the sweet spot of home buyers, you know, the largest, you know, first time home buyer generation to hit, they were, think about with the age that they were when they went through probably seeing their parents, their family members, their neighbors, lose their home and go through the worst time this industry ever experienced. So they've got a lot of fears surrounding this. It's the first time they've ever done it. And the difference is that they don't want everything to be a manual process in this, you know, you know, physical examination where you have to get together and you know, do all these painful things. What most home buyers want now, and particularly millennials, are really driving towards the automation of all of the things that you can. These millennials, and buyers these days in general, really want to be able to do all their homework online. They want to do research online. They want the application process to be simple, digital and easy. They want to upload documents where it's not this, again, weird process where you're bringing a briefcase of things and photocopies and, you know, this thing. And again, we've made such a leap in making that process so much easier, but they do want to be able to reach out to a real human being through various channels. You know, the channels are also very important to talk about because it's not necessarily again, you know, face-to-face getting together in your office. It may not look like that at all. And I think you have to be sensitive to, you know, what kind of channels people want. One of the buzzwords, I think people will start hearing a lot more of, it's something called Omni-channel rather than multi-channel, you know, what's your Omni-channel approach. And the truth is that nearly, I did something like 98.4% of Americans switched between multiple devices in the same day. Now, you and I have probably switched between multiple devices like in the last, you know, hour or 15 minutes, right, without our phones. We've got my little wear, but I'm looking at my little Fitbit that's, you know, sending me text messages. I've got my laptop here. I've got, you know, we've got all of these devices and people have, I think, on average, 3.75 devices between all of the different things. And so you have to be very aware of how you're interacting with your customers and interacting with your referral partners in the channel that they want, but they do expect a consistent human experience across those channels. So you will find, for example, you know what, you're going to find people that their life and their business work such that, yeah, they want to talk to you, a human being, but they want to do a via text, you know, that's their preferred channel. I could tell you that for my own daughter, that is a great way to talk to her, right? It's a meal I've done via text. And you're in the same house, too. Yeah, exactly, you know, I want to pick up a star, as to talk to each other. You know, but... Also, I text. I'm going to bet. Right. Right. And you're, you know, how you're interacting with people on social, you know, how you're, again, there could be a variety of different channels. And so I absolutely would say that there's perhaps even more need to find the right places for your human impact. And the only way that I think you can really do that and be present for the places where your customer and your referral partner really need you to be in a human way is to automate everything else that you possibly can and use technology. Don't run away from technology, embrace technology. There's so many forward-thinking companies that are putting the tools into place. And it's amazing when I see sometimes originators fighting it and saying, no, you know, I don't want this. I need this to be, you know, a human experience. You're enabling a fantastic human experience to happen and enabling yourself to be in the right places, at the right time, through the right channels, saying the right things and being there when they really need you, if you automate everything out. So what you're saying is we really need to pivot and adjust our customer experience based on that customer's preferences. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think there's questions that you need to ask of your customer, you know, what is your preferred method? You know, how do you want to communicate? Again, people are certainly wired very differently in their lives and their businesses work very differently. Sometimes people just, you know, the nature of their business is they can't get on the phone or they can't meet you in person. Great. Well, figure out what their deal is. And it makes it tricky. It means that we've got more things that we've got to be watching, right? And so, you know, you have to really find out what are those channels and how do you, you know, how do you offer that to your customers so that you're not making yourself crazy if you've got, you know, I mean, haven't prepared to get somebody. I want to talk to you on Snapchat. I want to talk to you on Instagram. I want to talk to you on, you know, you have to provide kind of a standard set of channels. But again, automate everything that you possibly can in terms of that experience and your lead nurturing and being in touch with people. There's again, so many great technologies. I mean, you know, I just joined total expert and I am just like wildly excited about what I see here and how we're serving our customers and what we're doing, but that's a huge part of what we're doing is enabling multiple channel communication with customers, whether it's email or text or what have you, you know, it's all in the system. It's everything is automated and then it pings you to have the opportunity for that human interaction at the right time. Yeah, yeah, and we'll talk about total expert as well before we wrap up because I agree that's a pretty powerful platform. So then what, you know, what would you say are, like if a loan officer's listening to this, okay, because I have two different mixes of the audience here. I've got people who are new, and I've got the veterans, right, 10, 10, and plus years in the business. So what gets in the way of people making this shift, this pivot, old habits, yeah, I think old habits die hard. And I think there's this, you know, kind of a sense of, you know, people have a fear about it. It's sometimes they talk to originators and they'll say, you know, oh, I'm not worried about technology replacing me because they really know their value. And you go to, you know, the bar with them later, you're sitting out, you know, somewhere talking and they're like, oh, you know, what is this? What really is this going to mean? And you may remember that there were some statistics that came out from NPR, you know, talking about the mortgage loan officer to 98.4% chance was 98.4% chance of being replaced. Well, it doesn't go unnoticed by people. And so I think there is kind of a, you know, sometimes people will fight it. We've also got, you know, there's a learning curve. Let's face it, there's a learning curve with any kind of new tool that's coming in. And it's hard, you know, it's, I was an originator for years and years and years and years and years. And the minute that a new technology comes into play, your instant reaction is, oh, man, here we go again. And so again, it's a big mindset shift. And I think this goes from the top down, you know, leaders need to lead, you know, leaders of mortgage companies, the most successful mortgage companies I see in the most successful originators are willing to, you know, open their minds, take on some new challenges. And let's face it, it's hard, you know, I mean, age, again, the average age of a loan off to being 56, 57, that's not generally your pivotal time in life where you're looking to learn new habits. But I'm telling you, you know, unless you're planning on retiring soon, this is it. And you have to carve out the time, spending the investment of time in understanding the system that your company is bringing to bear or the tools that you're investing in and figuring out, how do you get the setup to enable your future success and how all these interactions are going to work with your customers, with your real partners, it is critical that that would be done. And I'm telling you, this year is going to be a really key year for that. So you've got to really architect that process, that customer experience process and really thoughtfully designed that to win in the current market. Yeah, absolutely. And some of the things that are absolutely critical is, again, when you think about the world that we're living in right now, information overload, it's just true, right? We have more information that comes out of any given day in a 24 hour period than somebody in the 17th century had in their whole entire lifetime. That's what we're given in one day, right? So our brains are being really challenged with all this information coming at us. Now, this is also true. Think about our customers, they're getting bombarded in the same way, all of the messaging in this and that, all the channels that are coming at you and all the channels, your kids may be giving things that, it's just, it's absolute information overload. We are operating at a point we've never operated before in history. So what that means is that as we are looking to get our message across to people that we want to do business with, whether it's the leads you're wanting to work with, whether it's, you know, your database for your repeat and referral business, whether it's your referral partners, there's a couple of things. I'm going to be two things that are critically, critically important. Number one is consistency and repetition. Okay, people overlook how critical it is and this is to me where technology hugely comes into play, right? It has a consistent message and repeat it way more often than you think you need to. Right about the time that we as creative people, most originators, I know are really creative, right? We're always thinking of the next idea and the next thing and the next, you know, cool message we want to get out there, but it's right about the time that, you know, we send it out three times and we're like, ah, you know, bored. Yeah, I want to move on to a different message, a different thing, maybe I'll design a new logo. You know, I mean, who know, we're moving on to something different. That's right at the time that maybe your customers just starting to kind of hear it and see it. And they say that, you know, it takes a minimum of nine times to repeat a message when you're looking to get somebody's attention in the market again as a lead consumer referral partner before they really even start to hear it. And you know, it's interesting too that frequency brings familiarity and familiarity brings trust. Right. So we need to have, when we're looking at our, you know, just how we're marketing ourselves and talking a little bit about, you know, I know there's some restrictions around how we're marketing ourselves and we'll talk a little bit about that too with my second point. But just be very aware with your message, with your, again, leads your database, your referral partners have few messages, but just more often, few messages repeated more often. That's how you, how you get through where people see that and they start to recognize it. And as I said, the frequency brings familiarity and the similarity brings trust. Right. The second point, and this is something I'm hearing a lot of leaders talking about, which is a little unusual. We haven't had this in the past, but it's the importance of your personal brand. No, normal. It seems like, yeah, right, right? What personal brand can, it seems like what we've heard forever in our industry is, you know, leaders at a, at a big level, pushing against personal brand and saying, no, no, no, no, no. There is no personal brand. You are just, you know, employee 45 in this massive machine and that's how we stay compliant. But here's what I think, here's where the magic is. Now, I am not by any means saying that if you work at, you know, a big, fantastic company that's really, you know, investing a lot in that brand, use the power of that brand. I'm not talking about going outside of that. However, I'm talking about you as a human being, like you and I, Jeff, we both have a personal brand. It has nothing to do with what colors or logos or anything like that, but it's how we are operating, how we do business. You know, what kind of, just what we're bringing to our interactions, our relationships and our transactions, there's definitely an element of personal brand. Now, leaders right now are understanding the importance of allowing the folks that work for them. So all of you listening, leaders are saying, I'm talking banking leaders are saying we understand the power of the personal brand and allowing people to find ways where they are compliantly able to show that personal brand and how you show up and how you, again, how you're conducting yourself with your, with your customers and with your referral partners. And you know, it's like such an old quote, but it was one of the ones that I just love and have always hung on to is Tom Peters, member Tom Peters, a billion years ago, something like 40 years ago, he talked about that we're all the CEOs of our own companies. So if you're in business today, regardless of what your job is, regardless of what your role is, regardless of where you work, your most important job is to be the head marketer for the brand called you. And I think that's still incredibly powerful. Yeah, we got to be compliant. Yeah, we got to embrace the power of the amazing brands that some of us work for and the great things that our companies are doing for us, but don't overlook that there is this, your personal brand is kind of the combination of how you see yourself and how others see you. I know for sure, Jeff, you know, if you go ask, you know, go ask your network of people and what are three words that you'd use to describe me? They would have three words that they would use to describe you, right? People would have three words that they use to describe me. So you really want to do some thinking about in this world where a lot of things can and should be automated, really think about, though, how does your personal brand show up in that? And do you think who you are? That's great lesson there. And I like the fact that you kind of said your brand is what you do every day. It really is. So there's multiple components to brand. It's how you show up every day. It's how you interact. It's if you, you know, follow up in a timely manner, do you send that email when it's you should send it? Do you call that person back and a, you know, all that stuff is your brand in addition to how you're showing up where people are today, which is online, right? On the social. Yes. Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. So what are you seeing then? This is interesting conversation because companies have varying levels of compliance, constriction and it's frustrating for me sometimes because, you know, I'm trying to coach and teach and help LOs to like build their own brand. And yet, you know, some people are like, no, you can't do video arts. So how could a law officer navigate and start what would be a good example of building your personal brand say online? Well, I mean, I'm just going to give you an example. I mean, for myself, I would say, I mean, I'm just thinking about what are the words that somebody would use to describe me in terms of how I interact and business with people. And you know, the couple of things I would say is that I'm energetic, I'm empathetic and I execute. The truth is, like, yeah, yeah, right? So, but those things are, they are true of me and I know that everybody that I operate with and do business with would describe me in that way. That is my personal brand, right? So it's not about like, well, I really, you know, I always wear, you know, red shirts or things and it can be stuff like that. It can be stuff like that, but it's really thinking about how do you, how do you show up and how do you represent yourself and are there tweaks that you need to make in that? Yes. Some of that Jeff Ken show up in your social, you know, every company has a little different rules on how you do your social, but even if your social is completely outside of your business, just understand that that's the part of your brand out there. There is no, you know, secret channel where you get to be somebody else, you know, off wherever, I mean, in my opinion, anything you're putting out there digitally, that is a part of your brand. And you need to be really, really just very aware of that. It is something I coach my daughter on all the time, it's like, understand that if you don't want grandma to see it, don't put it out there because it's the grandma benchmark, huh? The grandma benchmark, exactly. So, you know, and I think one of the ways that you can really even vet this out, one of the things I'm a huge proponent of is having, what I call, well, I don't call it this as a pretty known concept, but having a personal board of directors, right, a personal board of directors is somebody that, again, I would say, just like you already have a personal brand, whether you're being intentional about it or not, you already have a personal board of directors, whether you're being intentional about it or not. Here's what I mean. If you've got a group of people around you, you do Jeff, I do too, everybody on this call does, who kind of speak into you. They, you know, maybe challenge decisions you're making or maybe they just agree with them. They, yep, you know, buddy, good job, you know, that makes sense or yeah, that really sucks. I know what you mean. And I wonder sometimes if we really are intentionally surrounding ourselves with people that may challenge us, that may hit a straight between the eyes and say, man, your personal brand sucks because you never return phone calls or you return phone calls, but they're five days late. You know, do we have people around us who are going to speak that kind of truth to us? So, one of the ways I can see this showing up and just as a stand alone concept that I think is really important for people to do is really think about if you have developed a personal board of directors very intentionally. Now I have on my, you know, quote unquote personal board of directors, I don't tell people they're on it by and large because over time, you may need to replace them and that can be an awkward conversation, right? But I do have a group of, you know, a defined group of eight people that I know in my head, that is my current personal board of directors. And they are people that think a little differently in some cases than I do. I didn't line up just a bunch of people that sink in the same way I do or a bunch of people that are just going to say, oh, yeah, oh, sure, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, go you. I pick people that I know have no problem saying, you know what, you're headed the wrong direction on this thing. Or you think that, you know, you're coming off like this, you're not, you're coming off like this. I pick people, I've got somebody very definitely in my mind right now. You're completely opposite in terms of just our life and political, you know, leanings and philosophies. But I love being able to challenge some of the things I think about because of somebody that I think very differently than. So that's just an action item that somebody can take right now off of this call and really think about who's pouring into you. And that's where you can test out your personal brand. Did you really find some people, not just your buddies who are going to say, oh, yeah, you're awesome. You're going to find people who are really going to be honest and critical with you and ask them those questions. You know, how am I doing? You know, what is my personal brand? If you had to give me three words that describe me, what would those three words be? Wow. Well, exercise. Yeah. I love that. If you had, if you were to describe me and how I show up, right, what would three words be that you use? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that could be a scary one too. Yeah. We'll be honest with you, yeah, because again, that's what I'm, that's what I'm talking about with personal brand is, is again, it how you show up, it's how your personality is there. You know, and again, I can think of originators who I follow on social that have a really distinct personal brand and has nothing to do with their, you know, their logo, their whatever. You know, but there's people who are really into, for example, maybe they're nonprofits involvement. And so you just know, man, that guy is really into getting back, you know, that's part of his personal brand. So again, it's not about the, oh, I mean, he's a different color than my company uses. You know, no, no, no, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about just how you show up in business because that stuff matters. I mean, it does matter. It's also something just to tie that back to something we were talking about earlier and the, you know, the millennials in particular and the group of people that we're serving. People's care about causes is one of the beautiful things I love about this generation. I, people gripe sometimes about millennials. I think they're just awesome. I love this generation because they're just, you know, they're very different than generations that have preceded them, but they care a lot about cause, okay, cause matters. And they are going to look at you, if they're your customer, they're going to look at you as an originator and they're going to look at your company, they're going to look at number one. How do you appear on digital? Okay. How do you show up? Do you have a weird old looking website? Is it, you know, does everything look clunky? Does it look painful? Do I have to come in and fill out papers by hand? You know, they're going to judge that, but they're really going to look at cause as well and just kind of what's your, you know, what do you stand for? That really, really matters to that group. So again, thinking through, you know, your image, your personal brand, how you show up, cause matters to millennials big time. I agree. 100% in a branding class. This is so relevant. We, I teach a branding class to a bunch of realtors all over the country. And that's one of the key sections I talked about, which is cause marketing. And it's, it's funny because I think some people feel like the, the two should be separate. Like I got my business over here. That's cool. But then I got my cause over here. And I don't really quote publicize that, you know, but I show them a, you know, this, I show them statistics that prove that to your point, like, first of all, people want to know about the causes that you're involved in. And then secondly, they're okay with you integrating that into your overall subject. Yep. And there's, it, there's actually amazing stats surrounding things like that that when you're using, you know, kind of who you really are as a person, you're not like putting on your, like persona when you go to work, but you're really, again, being that person who's into these causes, you outsell your peers, you know, people, it leads, convert more frequently. Well, yeah, I was just going to say, so the example, the classic examples, Tom Shoes, you know, I asked the, you know, it's like, would you think they would be as successful as they are without having really put, you know, a stake in the ground for buy one, give one and everyone says, no, they're not. And then of course, you know, the studies and the stats is like given, consumers are given a choice between company A, company B, all of the things being equal, but company B is involved in some type of cause, marketing company A is not over 95% of people will choose company B. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's so right. And again, you got to remember that a lot of the people, when you talk about what, what happened, what was happening in this world 10 years ago, all right, for people who are now 20 to 34 years old, you know, they were 10 to 24 years old and what they saw, the trauma that probably a lot of them saw and went through with people around them. They care about the world in a different way, they just, they really do. And we were at the epicenter of a lot of that, the market, you know, the mortgage business. And so it's just again, it's that awareness, how are you showing up? How are you giving back to the world is really important. So I know we've got some people listening that understand and get that, but they're not yet aligned with or affiliated with some type of a cause or a passion project or something. Any, you know, I, you know, there's so many different ideas like pets and, you know, homeless and feeding, you know, the food banks, but, but, I mean, any suggestions you've seen or you'd offer to people that may be struggling with, well, how do I get an associate into a cause? What do we do? No, it's, you know, what I would say, it's so personal, you know, people have got to go where their hearts lead them because I would bet that every single person on this call, when you ask a question, like, you know, what, what do you see out in the world? What kind of injustice do you see that fires you up or where do you see? You know, if you look at a hurt out there, where, where is that hurt? For me personally, I will tell you that it's, it's teenagers, and so I just, I love teenagers and I was, you know, really involved in a lot of, you know, non-profit causes surrounding youth in our school system when my daughter was in school, she's at some college now, but now I'm on the board of an organization called Hope for Youth, and we work with homeless youth because believe it or not, there are a lot of unaccompanied homeless youth. I'm not talking about there's parents and their kids are homeless with them because that's certainly is a separate issue, but there's literally teenagers that have been turned out of their house for a variety of reasons and don't have a home. And so that's, I don't want to go on about, I could talk about that all day, so I'm not going to talk about that. But it's something that grabs my heart because I love teenagers, and when I think about, you know, putting people in a home, it also, for me, is a, like, a real intersection between what I care about personally and what I'm doing professionally. Right? That's one of the amazing things I think about the business that we're in. One of the reasons I have always loved, like truly, I can say I love the mortgage business of the people in it is because we're helping people get into homes. I mean, that, to me, I know that the people that make, like, you know, pop sockets or, you know, those cool things that are on the back of your phones that everybody has right now, right? I'm sure that they feel probably like we are changing the world with pop sockets, right? And they, I love my pop sockets, and I'm not going to lie. But we're literally making, putting people into homes where their families happen, where their lives happen, where they laugh and cry and sleep and eat, that's an amazing cause. So I think the fact that we're at the mortgage industry, it's almost a cause in itself, but there's so many home related, you know, things, you know, and charities and causes around this. I think it'd be really easy to pick something. It just, you know, pick something that appeals to you, but I surely think that it's a, it's a, it's a huge element and it's a huge way you can stand out for sure. Agreed. It's, it's got to be real and authentic for you. You can't fake that. Yeah. So, yeah, I've got one, I got to give you a quick tip related to that cause I'm always a big one for accountability, like, you know, so, for example, I know, you know, we've only got a couple minutes left to talk, but, you know, when we're done talking, I hope that people are making some note things, boy, I need to do this or I need to think about that or I need to, you know, form a personal board of directors or I need to really look at my personal brand or need to, so whatever those action items are, I'm always all about accountability. So, a quick idea that just popped up for me that I'm just fair with you. There's a website out there called stick.com. It's STICK.com. Okay. Now, what it's for is a free website and you can put your goal out there. So if you're, or your task or you're saying your plan, you know, and it could be personal, it could be professional, but whatever your saying is that you're saying, I want to accomplish X in X period of time, I want to, whatever it is, open another branch, I want to hire another loan officer, I want to bring on three new referral partners, I want to, you know, do X number transactions this month, whatever that looks like for you. You can put something out there on that site that that's your publicly saying this is my goal. Now, you can assign a referee to it so you can have a buddy who can go on and say, yep, they actually did it or nope, they actually didn't do that thing. And if you don't do it, you put a certain amount of money on the line. When you set your goal, if you don't do it, your money goes to a cause that you hate or disagree with. Oh, really? Isn't that, yeah, not the one you like because, you know, people will have like, oh, well, you know, five dollars in the swerge are, you know, and then we'll buy pizza at the end of month. Well, that's just incentive for me to swear because we're going to get pizza at the end of that. So that's not good. But, but if this one is actually you pick out a cause that you absolutely despise and you put your money on the line with that cause, like sending money to cigarette companies. Absolutely. Yeah. Or, you know, to help support, you know, that's, you know, lobbying, I don't even want to go into what the possibilities could be because I don't want to be inflammatory about what they could be, but I bet you can all think of something, a, you know, cause of political side, you know, political issue, you know, there's, you know, politics, we're not going there. But my point being you absolutely could think of something and that's going to be a lot more likely to get that thing done. So that's just a quick hit, but that's one of my faves. I love that. STICKK.com. I'm on the website. Yeah. I'll put it in the short notes. I'm going to, I've got some people I'm going to do this with. That's awesome. I love it. Yeah. That's a good. Okay. You brought, you, you brought up something that's triggered a question for me and hopefully we can cover it in the last few minutes here because, you know, you clearly are passionate about the mortgage industry and about putting people in homes. I don't know if you see this, but I see this, especially when we've got people that in the business 20 plus years, where the people, maybe the passion's gone, maybe the shine is off. Maybe, you know, they're kind of questioning and asking, gosh, I'm just not passionate about doing loans. Can I still be a successful loan officer? What do you, what do you say to that? Well, I, you know, surely people can always be successful even if they're, you know, have, you know, not as passionate, maybe as they used to be. So I'm not going to say it's not, it's not possible, but it's surely not as much fun. It's not as much fun. You're not going to do a good job. And I understand for a lot of us, we've been in the business a long time and we've been through a lot. So I get it. I get it. This is life. This is just, you know, our lives are that way. You know, our personal life is that way, not just their business lives, but this is where I think it is critical that you're surrounding yourself. I would say two things. Number one, you know, look, the company that you're at, you know, the company you keep, you know, so are you at a place that's inspiring you? Are you at a place that's really, you know, lifting you up and giving you the resources that you need and really is also something that, that you can connect to and feel again inspired by. We always are going to have days that are not, and weeks, you know, Jeff, like you and I were talking about earlier, man, some weeks just poppy in the face and you're just like, wow, wow, what happened? You can get down, but that's where I think, you know, the company that you're at, and then secondly, you know, the company and the people, but also I think you actually really should proactively seek out, you know, whether it's coaching that you're going to being, you know, part of, of, you know, coaching group like yours, going to events, you know, plugging in to some of the amazing things and people that are out there connecting and getting recharged and rejuvenated is critically important. There's so many good things out there. There was a huge chunk. The first, the whole first part of my career, I wasn't plugged into any of that stuff. You know, I was doing my thing and originating, and I remember when I first started going, wow, there's all these people out there, you know, there's, you know, Todd Duncan and Greg Frost and, you know, like all these, like, you know, amazing people that I didn't even know existed. And that lifts you up. It really does. And so I just encourage people, the number one, you know, be at the right company, surround yourself with the right people, but plug into the resources and folks that are out there like you, Jeff, and, and, you know, the things that you've given to this industry and serving in that way, you know, that's where it's at. Yeah, the good point, absolutely surround yourself with other people who support you and can be there for you when you need it. So speaking of being at a place that you're passionate about, tell us about Total Expert. Why did you go to Total Expert? Oh, I came to Total Expert because, you know, I just saw a company that was operating and serving as clients in a way I'd never seen before. So Total Expert is really a technology first company. It is really what enables, number one, incredible automation, like we were talking about earlier, where you've got an automated process, you've got a single system of record where everything's in there, and you're able to enable the right automated communications to be taking place with your fleets. So you're doing that nurturing that we were talking about early on in the call that's so incredibly important and P and U up for the right opportunities to go in and convert that lead, how you're communicating with people throughout the process, how you're staying in contact after that closing takes place for that repeat and referral business and keeping that relationship and the partnering tools are like nothing I've ever seen. You put these kind of tools as alone after you put these kind of tools in front of a referral partner. They are compliant to the end degree, like Wiener Brodsky, Mitch Kider, Wiener Brodsky, like has vetted the whole thing out and said, man, it's like the most compliant thing I've ever seen, but they are unbelievable partner tools to talk about adding value to relationships. So I came here because I saw a company who was winning and who was killing it and who customers love them. And it's not very often that you have a technology company of any sort that customers love them. You know, how much, you know, am I a raving fan of, you know, Excel or anything with Microsoft? No, it's a means to an end. But when you see people, when I announced that I was coming to Total Expert and all of the, you know, comments were like, yay, we love Total Expert. Total Expert is awesome. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. That's the company I want to be at and that's why I joined. Absolutely. I agree. So for those that don't know, I have the opportunity to actually experience and work with Total Expert on a day-to-day basis. And I can just tell you, yeah, it's very powerful and it creates some amazing partnerships and relationship opportunities with your referral partners, helps you do the things that we talk about, help create your brand, be out there on social media in many different ways. So I know we've got a variety of people who listen to this show, both loan officers and some managers or executives and companies. And so Total Expert is an enterprise solution. As a matter of fact, I had Joe on the podcast, gosh, last year. Yeah, awesome. It's a number 17, so if anybody wants to listen to it, it's mortgagemarketinginstitute.com forward slash 17, I believe is where you'll find it. But obviously, if you want to learn more about Total Expert and your company, go to Total Expert.com, right? Yeah, reach on out and let us know we can help. Like Jeff said, it is enterprise level, but you know, you can see we're working with the best companies in the nation, so ping your leaders and tell them to reach out and get in touch with us. Right on. All right. Anything else you want to do? You're new and exciting coming for you in 2018? No, I'm just, man, I'm excited for the year ahead. This is my final year before I turn 50, if I have to be honest. And so I haven't only known what all I'm going to do this year. I had a big glorious chunk of time off last year. I've got a lot of things on my bucket list, not stopped. And so this year, I'm just, I'm super excited just to be digging into Total Expert and really plugging back into the industry, coming out, you know, I've been out there speaking a lot more and just, you know, really excited to hopefully meet a lot of you listening and again, just hopefully add value to your lives as well. Yeah. And by the way, if any of you are out there and you're looking for events to attend and you see an event where Sue is going to be, I guess, speaker, make it there. Get on a plane, train, automobile, swim, I don't care what you need to do. Get your butt there because she's awesome from the stage and really, you know, touches your heart. And I think makes a big impact on your life, which is why I'm so glad you finally made it on the show. Thank you so much. Yeah. No, I hate. Thank you so much. It's just an absolute honor. It really is. And I really just honor and appreciate all the time that you all spent listening. So, you know, my big takeaway is just grab even one thing. Do the one thing off of this call, put it on your calendar and figure out how you're going to put it into action. My only ask, Jeff. Thank you so much, Sue. And for listeners, thank you for tuning in. We appreciate you as always. And if you like today's episode, please remember to leave us a word with you on iTunes or Stitcher. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. 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