Ep #72: How Survive and Thrive in Today's Market

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. Once again, so glad you are here, are you enjoying the episodes? I sure hope so. Listen, if you ever want to reach out to me, you have a question, suggestion, maybe somebody you'd like to see featured as a guest on the podcast, you can always email me directly. The email address is info at Mortgage Marketing Institute.com, just let me know what's up, how it can help you. And once again, if you're loving the podcast, feel free to share the love, leave us a review, iTunes, Stitcher, appreciate it right there. I think the secrets out for those that are kind enough to leave a review, I am thanking you and acknowledging you for your kind words. How am I doing that? I'm sending you all some free clothes. Yeah. I mean, listen, I've seen your wardrobe, you need some help, okay? We need to step it up a bit. So if you want to leave a review and you want a nice thank you for that, here's how it works. Then email me that you've done, you did indeed leave me a review and what your shirt size is and your mailing address. Why? Like I said, wardrobe needs help. So I can send you a cool mortgage marketing radio t-shirt, that's right, that's what I am going to do. And man, I tell you what, these things are just, I can't keep them in stock long enough. I just sent out another batch earlier in the week and I've already got some new folks that I got to get some new t-shirts out for. So if there's a slight delay on the turnaround and the t-shirts getting to you, I appreciate your patience. Specifically, hey, John Brueck, what's up, my man, over there, and cool, full Washington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're going to come up to your way, we're going to meet, maybe you have dinner or cocktails or something like that, but a mortgage marketing radio t-shirt on its way to you as well. So, all right, let's get into this week's episode. I want to unpack, well, first of all, let you know that we had a little bit of an audio challenge at the start of this episode, so you won't hear it kind of like the intro welcome to the show. Normally, we just cut and get ready into the interview, so apologize for technical difficulties, but the meat of the interview is still there. And Mike started over there, you're looking around the industry and you see people that are performing a certain way, they've conduct themselves at a very high professional level and they've clearly got it wired, you know, and they've got this incredible business that they've built. They've wondered, how did they get there and what are the things that they do, and you want to borrow from their examples, right? You want to remember that commercial back in the day with Michael Jordan, be like Mike, well, in this case, in a lot of ways, I'd like to be like my special guest, Ryan Grant. Ryan Grant is just an amazing human being, amazing person, not just in terms of who he is, this is a quality person, but what he's done, what he's accomplished in the mortgage space, in a very short period of time. I mean, literally, within two years, he went from about $11 million to over $60 million in business and just last year in 2017, he helped over 200 families. He's ranked as the number one lender in Orange County, California, which is a huge feat. It's a very competitive market. And I believe he's ranked as the number 38 lender, Prince Scott, he's got it from correct nationwide. And so what really stands out for me about Ryan is, when he and I talked, he talked about the shrinking compressions in the market, the pricing, the compressions, the competitiveness, and the fact that it's getting harder to win, if you will, you've got to have your A game on, right? And it's funny, because Ryan's approach to that is, he's excited, he sees fun times ahead, even with all the threats, if you will, of the mortgage technology displacement in Amazon and this and that and the other thing. He sees it as fun times ahead and we unpack kind of the mindset behind how he sees his role as a mortgage professional and how he's architected a five-star customer experience that is like no other and differentiates himself, his team from the get-go. And the results speak for themselves in terms of not only his production, but obviously his, if you go to Zillow and look up Ryan Grant, the way I grant team, you'll see over 200 of reviews, 4.8 stars, average, and the raving comments that clients have. So Ryan and I unpack this whole, what does it mean today to, you know, kind of, as it refers to in the book, right, the experience economy is the book. And what is your client experience like, right, and how are you impacting your clients and your referral partners and how you structuring that process so that it's completely unexpected and surprisingly delightful, if you will. And what is your value proposition? And Ryan talks about, our job is not the pre-qual as a mortgage loan officer. Our job is to remove doubt. And Ryan just does a great job of going through how he architects his process. So interesting facts about the home buying process in terms of how people feel when they go through that experience, how they feel about after they buy a house. And literally, if you ever wanted to, you know, just have a blueprint for what does a high performing mortgage professional and team look like, sound like, this is it, this is it for you, okay. So can't wait to hear your reviews, your feedback on this very pleased to have, especially I guess, Ryan Grant on today's episode. So let's get into this week's show. Defom owner or the consumer is looking to buy a home that they should go through a very similar process to what we have in place. And so the more we can get out in front of people and explain that and teach it and coach on it, the more market share we can capture in the higher level of service and the higher level of education and confidence that the consumer will have. And so I'm really excited about the market coming forward. I think I mentioned to you the other day. As a realtor for anybody, you know, you didn't really need a great lender from 2012 to 2000, maybe mid 2017 because money was cheap, you know, housing was cheap. It really made sense for almost everybody in America who could buy home to buy one. And now that we have all time my housing prices and interest rates are climbing back up, there's a lot more fear and a lot more uncertainty, a lot more anxiety. So as a realtor or as, you know, any referral partner, if you're not working with a lender who really understands how to positively impact the psychology of a buyer in a way where we can be educational and consultative, it's going to be difficult because you're going to deal with a lot of uncertainties and unknowns and that's going to hamstring a lot of buyers and sellers. So I believe we are much more valuable today than we ever have been simply because of where the market stands and that gives us the opportunity to go grow into that space. What do you think makes us more valuable today than ever before? What's changed? Well, I mean, look, previously, you know, if it was 2015 or 2014, nobody was really concerned about should I buy home? It was just how quickly can I buy one, you know, interest rates were 3.5, housing prices were really affordable, you know, the average person can afford the average home or even above average home. And so it was really just, let's get a Morrison, let's do this, right? There wasn't a lot of, should I do this? There wasn't a lot of fear, there wasn't a lot of uncertainty or anxiety. It was just, you know, rates are low, housing prices are great, you know, they're coming up a little bit, but they're coming off of the bottom. And so, you know, they just, realtors would send their business to people who would just fund loans. But I think that that mentality has kind of, unfortunately, carried through and a lot of lenders have kind of devolved into, I call it kind of the McDonald's of the mortgage industry, where, you know, somebody would pull up to the first window and say, I want to buy a 600,000 out of our house, I want to put 20% down and I want this rate, I want no points and they'd say, great, yeah, absolutely, pull up to the next window and we'll give you that to you. And that's really unfortunate, because 44% of Americans, based upon a truly a study, have some form of regret two to three years after they bought a home. And it's because we allow them to do what they thought, based upon some pre-kissed notion, and nobody challenged their assertion of, are you doing this correctly? Should we do it differently? Should we look at something differently? Should we really try and understand your goals, your short-term and long-term timelines? And so now, you know, if you still have that mentality of kind of accepting what the consumer wants, you're only going to, you know, be as valuable as your interest rate, because they're just basically ordering that everywhere. Yeah, so do you have any insights into what some of the reasons why those 44% of people had some regret about buying a house? Yeah, based on the study that I read, it was a lot of people would have bought a slightly larger home and maybe, you know, stretched a little bit more because they've played it a little bit too conservative based upon their income. Some people would have put less money down on their home because they felt a little bit too cash-strapped trying to get to the 20%, and some people would have potentially bought in a different area. They would have held money back to do some upgrades because they lived in a home, but they didn't have money to upgrade. So the list was extensive, but the biggest reason was, you know, people didn't buy a big enough home, and they were a little bit too conservative, which is understandable coming out of the recession, right? But they didn't also have anyone to talk to, to challenge their assumption of what they should, what they thought they should be doing, and that's really what our job is, you know, people who think that a mortgage lender's job is to pre-approved a client, and ultimately fund that loan, it's a gross misunderstanding of what our job is, you know, our job is to take that fear, that anxiety, that, you know, that lack of information and education, and convert that into somebody who is highly educated, highly motivated and confident, and can make an educated decision, regardless of the decisions to buy a home or not to buy a home or to sell or not to sell. Our job is to help people really make educated decisions based upon the analysis we provide. I think that that's a missing link in our business to most people's business. Well, why do you think that the, because I agree that with that premise, that that is truly our job. If a fiduciary responsibility, we should look at ourselves as a financial consultant on the same part of that, of like a CFP and things like that, and I think that goes to our overall discussion about in this market is getting tougher and tougher to compete, which means you need to be heavier again. And I know you're, well, I have two questions. One is, I think, why do you think nobody's beating that grumb loud enough or louder, or more do you think that is changing, you know, raising up the professionalism of the mortgage originator? Do you think that's changing at all? It's hard to say. I'd like to think it is. I mean, I do a lot of speaking and coaching and a lot of, you know, I preach it as much as I can, because I'm really proud of the way we run our business, and you know, we're the highest rated reviewed Morris Under in the county by far. And it's not because, you know, we just give good rates and we close loans, and it's because of the, you know, the experience the clients goes through the educational process they have, the confidence they have in their decision, and their overall satisfaction after it's done, knowing that we're going to continue to be there with them for some time. So, to me, I hope it spreads. I hope more and more people adopt our style of business, because I really think it's the only style of businesses going to work. Moving forward, other than the absolute lowest interest rate online, find the client, you know, and then just put them in a loan, which it is a viable business model. It's just not one that I fully believe in. I think that through marketing and, you know, the company is spending a lot of money trying to tell the consumer why they should, you know, click a button in their underwear and get in a mortgage at eight minutes is a good thing, is doing more harm than good to our overall sustainability of homeownership. I think people are making mistakes that they could definitely avoid if they adopted or if they went down the path that they really should. And so, yeah, I'd like to see more people do this style of business, but it's hard to say because, you know, people are afraid and then they haven't done this style of business for a very long, and so they think, well, I just need to be with the company that, you know, has leads and low rates, and that's a slippery slope. Yeah, because that can change an R.P. Yeah, I mean, the real estate industry is not dissimilar. I mean, there's a lot of realtors who are, you know, wondering, you know, people moving to Red fan and Purple bricks, and it's just a, you know, it's all a value play in my opinion. If you're very valuable and you add a lot of value to the transaction and you're a consistent advisor and consultant with your client throughout their, their financial life, you should, you should be able to run a really well-run business with really happy clients and offer very competitive terms and commissions and, you know, really run a good business. But I think people are operating out of fear of just thinking that, you know, well, it's a commodity, and this is that and the other, I just fundamentally don't believe that. Yeah, a lot of people are fearful of that, if I don't have the best rates, because that's what the consumers are conditioned to come at us with is, you know, what's your rate, right? And we just, like, need your, oh, that's a four and a quarter, and you're dead in the water. Yeah. I mean, you just lose, I mean, there's clients that lose thousands of dollars and they make really bad decisions and they don't, they don't structure them on appropriately or they don't buy the right home based upon their timeline and their, their goals overall, or they just, there's a lot of things that go into this. I mean, we look at every client's transaction holistically, so we look at, you know, life insurance, estate planning, you look at, you know, tax planning, retirement planning, you know, having enough liquidity, post-closing, emergency funds, you know, budgeting, understanding, you know, kind of what other child care, all the stuff that comes into the equation. And, you know, sometimes clients meet, clients meet with us and they find out it's not the right time to buy home, whereas somebody else may have just put them into a home that would have done them more harm than good. More often than not, you know, people do find that it is a good time and then they're able to make really good decisions and go from there. But I think, you know, people trying to save an eighth of a point or a quarter of a point of an interest rate and foregoing all the analytics and analysis and, and, and consultation that really needs to come, or be involved in this is kind of like, you know, cutting off your nose is by your face, it is, it's not a smart decision. So, I want to unpack that because I know a lot of people here, which you just described, you know, the holistic approach to the mortgage process and we take a look at all the aspects of the financial situation. I know a lot of that was, you probably personally experienced this, when they first hear that, they're like, what, how the heck am I, you know, do I have that large encompassing conversation with people? And I think for the first challenge is, it's a paradigm shift, so it's a mental thing. We have to, which is what I think your business is all about is you want to deliver not the average experience, but an exceptional experience. Are there any, you know, suggestions, best practices? Do you have, I know you have a very structured customer experience process. So if you could maybe just briefly, you know, highlight how you take control of that and maybe, you know, illuminate, I'm sure you've had people push back on that, that encompassing process. Do you mean, we have clients push back on? Yeah, I already mean clients push back or like, what, what is this? Why do I feel like I'm getting like, I just want to rate that, you know? Yeah, so again, it comes back to, well, that kind of answered that question in two parts. It comes back to the consumer being conditioned to think that, you know, they're getting a mortgage loan the same way they're, they're buying or getting, you know, applying for a credit card or something, you know, I mean, it's just, you know, the people are being conditioned to think, you know, I just want to click a button and get a mortgage and I don't need this and the other and, and there is a subset of the market that that's true for. I mean, there's, you know, there's going to be people who really understand the financial analytics of, you know, their overall finances and they have a solid understanding of what they should and can do. But that's not the majority at all. It's probably not even close. I would say maybe 10% of America has the capacity to really fully understand and engage in that. But I have every single person I come across, it was the last time you took an hour out of your day to learn more about your financial future. And more often than not, no one has an answer. They can't remember or they never have, which is a really sad date because, you know, we're not taught that in school. There's no education around it in the employment space, you know, unless you're in a financial sector of some sort and so most people just don't do that and it's a huge part of our life. And so when we explain to our customers what we do and why we do it, not only are they eager to do it, but they're excited, they're, you know, they, no one's taken them through this before. Nobody's taken the time to help them with this. They haven't approached a financial advisor because they didn't even think they had enough money to invest to begin with. And so we've become that kind of de facto financial person for them. And again, you don't see commercials on TV where, you know, people are going into a mortgage advisor's office and sitting down and having a structured conversation and really understanding what they should be doing. All you see is, you know, bank rate, lending tree, quick and press button, get mortgage, you know, don't talk to anybody, just get a low rate and it's really doing a disservice to the consumer. And if I had all the money in the world, I would run those commercials. We actually just created a commercial around it. Obviously, we're not going to run it in the Super Bowl, but, you know, I think that they just need to know what's possible. Most people don't even think that meeting with a mortgage advisor exists. So when given the opportunity, they really jump at it. I mean, we met with 96% of our clients last year and most of them, we met three times during the transaction. Wow. So we spend a significant amount of time with each client. We do our initial dreams and goals call. We have our pre-purchased consultation here in the office, which typically takes about an hour. And then when they go into contract on their home, they come back in the office for, you know, typically 30 minutes to an hour to really make sure that we're getting this right, we're structuring everything correctly, we're explaining all the ins and outs of the process to them. We're making sure they don't have regrets or concerns, and then they sign their documents in our office. That way, if they have questions, we're here for them. I mean, this is the way it should be done. I fully believe that. And I think if you pull our clients, they will absolutely tell you many of them have done mortgages the other way and they won't go back to that way. Obviously, with that high level of service and professionalism, the rate sensitivity becomes less of an issue because of the value you're providing. Yeah, I mean, it definitely doesn't become less of an issue. I mean, everybody definitely wants a good competitive interest rate, which we absolutely offer. I mean, our interest rates are as good if not better than the majority of our competitors. But, you know, there's always going to be the guy who's going to do it for less, right? The online call center or the automated system where you just kind of become a number. And it's always shock me that we are not seeing in the same light as a financial advisor as EPA. So you talk to your CPA every year, right? And people take it really seriously for the most part, and they have their meetings with their CPA, and they talk about this and not the other thing. The same thing with financial advisors if it's a good financial advisor. But as people's lives change and evolve, you know, as they come into money, as they lose money, as they go into debt, as they sell home, buy home, get a raise, you know, lose a job, have a kid, you know, kids leave the nest. Every, at every stage in someone's life, as it's changing and evolving, the way that they manage their real estate and the way that they manage their mortgage should change and evolve with it. And it's always shock me that people don't have a trusted mortgage advisor to confide in at each one of these steps in their life. Well, that is because different set of beliefs is what that is, you know. Well, again, it's not a thing, it doesn't exist. Right. So, you know, people would only think, well, why would I call a mortgage guy and let's know on alone? Like, if I need information, I need to come up with it on my own, or try and find somebody who can give me unbiased information and good luck with that, because the majority of Americans are dealing with salespeople who are commission-based. So it's hard to find unbiased advice, right? Our mortgage advisors are not, our mortgage advisors are salaried people. They get very small, you know, bonuses when loans close, but it allows them to provide unbiased, non-sales-based advice. They can just be consultative, they can tell clients exactly what they should or shouldn't do. I mean, we probably tell more people not to refinance than we do to refinance, because they think they're saving money, but in reality, over time, they're going to lose money. And so, our clients really have grasped on to that concept, because they didn't know is a thing before. And of all the great things we do, right, how we help our clients before they buy home, how we help them during the contract, and how we help them after. The after part is the most important thing to almost 90% of our clients. But nobody knew the after thing was even a thing before they spoke with us. So what do you mean, explain why the after part is the most important? Well, because nobody has anyone looking out to them, right, like if my job is to give you the largest debt you have in your life, I really believe I have a fiduciary responsibility to help you proactively and professionally manage that debt. If I was a financial advisor and you gave me half a million dollars, and you call me a year later, and you say, hey, how's my money doing? It's time for a review, and I go, oh, you know what, I'm really sorry, I haven't a chance to look at it. You'd probably be mad, right? Right. Right. I for the life of me, I do not understand how we are not the same exact way, right? We are trying to ensure that our clients are always in the best finance position possible. We should always make sure that they're appropriately reaching a debt for your retirement. You know, most large banks who offer what most people think are competitive rates have a vested interest in ensuring that person never gets out of debt. We don't, right? We're not the bank, we're not the noteholder on that thing. So we don't have that vested interest. Our job is to make sure that our clients get out of debt and grow their wealth and accrue more real estate and plan for a good retirement. When you say what you're talking about, you specifically, your team, that's your philosophy. Yes, absolutely. Or I, you know, I would think every loan originator in America, when I say we, but obviously, we know that's not the case. Well, so what we're getting at here, the core is how you see yourself as a mortgage professional is for me, the real key, the foundation to come correct, what's really created the genesis, if you will, for how you designed a Ryan Grant team and what you sought as the experience you wanted to create. You know, you've been sector this whole thing. You see the role of a mortgage originator as different than probably most people. I was going to ask you if you see yourself as a salesperson. No, the term sales never even comes up in our office. Sales? I kind of despise the term. I mean, I think that, you know, sales is such a negative connotation because it means we're literally selling something and a lot of times it's, you know, when someone is selling something with the understanding that they're going to make additional money for their family if they sell that thing, it can never be unbiased. It can never be solely in the client's best interest. And that's why you get a lot of people calling, hey, you want to refinance buy home, blah, blah, blah. It's like, you can't tell someone if they's refinanced or if they should buy home or if they should sell home unless you know a lot of information about them. And that's why these call center places that offer these low rates. They just hire people that have no financial wear with all. They really don't care about the consumers ultimate, you know, ultimate and the game. They just know they need to sell something in order to make money. I really believe that if you don't sell things, if you just do the right thing, it's such a differentiator. And you know, everyone thinks that, you know, well, people will do the right thing but it's not always the case. And so if it can be very apparent and clear that you and your team do the right thing by calling every time and really support them in their efforts, you don't need them. At some point, you will not need to market like you won't need to spend marketing dollars because people will say, if you want to work with a team that does X, Y and Z, you've got to call this team and they become your sales source, they become the generators of your business. So obviously, you know, there's a marketing component to it, but over time more people will be attracted, in my opinion, to what we do than where the industry has headed. Yeah, it's interesting because I thought about branding, some of the personal branding stuff that I do and the thing that stands out for me there is what branding is, it's storytelling and it's how people describe what it's like to work with you. That's your bright. Yeah. So clearly, to your point about you guys and your presence online and social media, Zillow in particular, you've got 192 reviews, 4.98 stars, I mean, that's just rocking. So I want to come back to reviews in a moment, but I want to, two questions I'm going to ask you. Let me do it this way. Just briefly, what for you was the pivotal moment when you kind of like, because if I remember us when we talked before, you weren't always operating in this section, is that correct? No, no, not at all. So what was the thing, if you could look back, you woke up one day, you're like, you know what? I'm doing this wrong. I don't know if it was, it definitely wasn't one day. It was through a lot of coaching, it was through a lot of experience, a lot of learning from other great people in our industry. I've been really fortunate to surround myself with some of the best, you know, more as originators and business leaders in our industry across the country. And we always, we're very like-minded in how we operate our businesses, we're very like-minded in the mentality that we have in regards to how we help our clients and what value we really should be having. So, you know, I think if that collective mastermind helps people see the light, it helps me because, you know, I, you know, I started in 2005 and I was just a call center guy, right? I was just working, doing our finances and I was 23. I didn't really know much else. And I did that through, you know, the downturn and then, you know, I got into management and some other things, but I never had met a realtor. I didn't have a pass client database and so in 2011, I decided, I'm going to try and, you know, career relationships and actually have a career as opposed to a job. I think that's a big differentiator that most people need to make is look at their business and say, do I have a career in the mortgage industry or do I have a job in the mortgage industry? And if you work for a company that, you know, is providing you leads or kind of puts you in a box or, you know, you don't have the ability to, you know, brand yourself and your team and really be kind of an entity within an entity, you may have a job, which means that you could ultimately lose that job. And so, you know, the career-minded loan originator, the career-minded mortgage producer is somebody who really needs to understand that they need to have a legitimate value proposition and they need to fully believe it and invest in it. And so I just learned that, you know, in 2011, when I started, I was really just like everybody else, which is out there, you know, trying to meet in any people's possible and then doing loans, but there wasn't much other value. And then over time, I started realizing, well, this should happen, and after meeting with more and more clients, just face to face, which I used to not do, I started realizing the power in that not only for our business, but for the consumer and for their happiness and satisfaction. And so then we just kept adding, adding, adding, adding, adding more value. And at the point now, where we have an entire post-closing team that does nothing but make sure that our past clients are well taken care of, you know, making sure that we're always following up with them. We're making sure they have a good CEPA, financial advisor, state planning attorney, that they're properly insured from life insurance perspective, that they're always in the best loan. We're doing annual financial reviews and all of our clients. We're helping them understand, you know, what they can do, setting goals for future real estate. And so, to me, that's the coolest part of our businesses, ensuring that all the people who've entrusted us to help them with their own financing are continuing to get a high level of value and service for the next 30 to 50 years. So when you hear, by the way, thank you for articulating that. And it's obviously paid off for you nicely. When you, you know, all the noise, all the stirring, stirring of the pot out in the marketplace about displacing loan officers or Amazon, getting in the mortgage business, or, you know, whatever, you, how do you, how do you look at that? How do you respond to that? I think that just like anything else, you know, and I don't know, I don't ever remember a time that I've been in the mortgage industry since 2005 where there wasn't change, right? If there's any one constant thing, it's going to be that there's always going to be change. And so it's not a matter of fearing change, it's just a matter of understanding what it looks like and navigating through it. And so to me, it doesn't matter. I mean, you know, people keep thinking technologies are going to replace loan officers. Well, if you're a loan officer who doesn't have a significant value to the consumer, then yes, technology won't only will, but it should replace you. However, you know, if you run a business that people really find value in and that you fully believe is a better way of doing this to create a more sustainable level of home ownership in America, then you don't need to, you can use technologies like everybody else to automate more of your process, to get deals unfastered, to create less paperwork, to do all the things that mortgage technology will do for anybody. You can use that. You know, those things should become available. So I'm not too concerned, the only difference is, you know, who's going to get the lead, right? Who's going to get the client? Who's going to get the information? Because we can all use mortgage technology the same exact way. But you know, you got companies that are, you know, saying they're going to be the lead aggregator and they're going to control it and they're going to do everything under one roof. You know, they're going to do mortgage. They're going to do real estate. They're going to do insurance. They're going to do property management. And it's going to be one hub for mortgages. I mean, good luck, right? Like every single one of those industries is really important to be good at. So for one company to be good at all of them, have we ever seen that in the history of life? Yeah. No. So just be really good at what you do, right? Be really, really good, be valuable, perform at a high level, ensure that you give more value than anybody could ever pay you for and you won't have to worry about being replaced. Now, I do think that the law officer who does one to four loans a month will probably go by the wayside. It's really going to be more of a, you're either a high performing mortgage team that has the capacity to run a business the way it should be ran or you're going to be a company who generates business and then pays loan officers to then perform that the loan. But the self source originator, that one to four, one to five unit person, that's going to be tough because with, you know, with compression and a few other things, it may be hard for companies to pay that person a hundred to 200 basis points based on whatever their comp plan may be because it's kind of like, well, you don't really add a whole lot of value. So the clients still going to want a really good rate and it's going to be hard for me to pay you that margin. So, you know, my advice to any, any originator right now would be either worked really hard to grow a high performing team that helps your client in every aspect of before, during an after they buy home or maybe, you know, think about going to work for a company who's going to provide you leads and, you know, go that route. But the people in the middle might find themselves in a tough spot. Yeah, but it's funny you say the team concept because we've seen that happen in real estate as well, right? Right. Big time. Yep. And there's a place for those, for those people that are one to four units a month that they give you because be part of the Ryan Grant team, for example, you know, I don't know if that's like, meets your minimum threshold, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, like again, we, you know, my, our team is really consistent of advice, the mortgage advisors that work on clients as they come in. We also have people in our branch that are, they're kind of what, we get their external officers, people that, you know, are growing their teams. But my goal is to turn to their teams and exactly what my team looks like. And that's their goal. So, you know, we want to bring this to as many markets as we can because I mean, the power behind it is so fun. I mean, I just had a post closing call with a client yesterday and the feedback we get is just, it's so touching, right? I mean, it's really like almost moves you to tears at times when people tell you what their experience was like compared to other experiences in the past and how important you were to them and their, their family and their life. You're not going to get that by being a call center and telling a low rate. You're just not. You're not going to get referrals from that. You're not going to get repeat business because nobody feels, feels any different. I mean, there's a great, there's a great book called The Experience Economy. And if you don't think that the experience that the consumer goes through matters, you just think that ultimately as they get a low rate, that's what they're going to be happy with. It's your dead raw. I mean, we've had plenty of clients who, who have opted to try and go for the low rate, who then come back to us two weeks into a transaction and say, the other companies, not performing, they're not getting it done, can you please help us? And then they become our biggest fans because they see the difference. And sometimes it's hard for people who are conditioned to think, all I need is a low rate to understand why, you know, an eighth of a point or a quarter of a point when we are $30 or $50 a month is going to be the most important thing they could do in their life. I mean, it's very simple to sometimes see that, but the majority of our clients, you know, really understand that the value we provide is way more valued than they could ever get. I mean, without going into the rate differential, but yeah. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. So, real quickly then, for those listening, and, you know, I want to come back to that question. You've obviously crafted a, an architect, is a better word, this five-star client experience which in some ways has become an infamous and I know you shared at the Todd Melkin events and elsewhere. Yeah. What would be just a couple suggestions for people, how they can start to, you know, from the point of that first contact, instead of jumping right into a 10.03, right? Any quick tips on how do you create that differentiation from the get go? First thing you should have to do is listen. What a concept. Yeah. Most, most people talk more than they listen, you know, which is kind of an unfortunate side effect of being a salesperson. Yeah. A salespeople love to talk and they think that what they say really matters. You're saying it doesn't. Well, I mean, to a certain extent, right? But the more you listen, the more you can be helpful. And so, you know, we train on how to take that initial phone call and we are really, intentional about ensuring that we know what the consumer wants, why they want it. And if we should, you know, potentially slow them down and try and challenge some of their assumptions and show them different options, which, you know, sometimes people are a little bit hesitant to, but once they understand it and see it, they're really thankful for. And so, you know, just listening and then, ultimately, we just tell our clients how we're unique and say, look, there's obviously a lot of options to choose from when you're financing home. And there's no shortage of people that are really eager to sell you debt. But the difference is, you know, what do you, what do you really want in a relationship with a mortgage company or a mortgage advisor? And then we kind of go into our value proposition and, you know, the 10 or 3 of the application is the last thing that we do because we want the client to really understand our process. And our, all of our realtor partners really understand our, our concept as well. It's always funny when I, when I meet a new realtor and I ask them the question, you know, if you were to refer a client to your lender, could you confidently tell that client what that experience is going to be like from the first phone call the 50 years later? And to this date, nobody's been able to answer that question. That's because they really isn't a systemic approach towards this with most originators or most businesses. You know, most realtor just think, well, they pretty approved the client and then they fund the loan and they do a good job. Okay, well, that's also going to be a problem in the experience economy moving forward. So our realtor partners fully understand the value that we provide. So they do a really great job in telling the clients what they're going to go through as well. You know, Mr. Smith, you know, Ryan's team will reach out to you Tuesday at four. They'll send you a calendar invite. They'll do a drains and goals call with you just to make sure that everything is understood and they'll prep everything in advance and then they're going to invite you into their office through your pre-purchase consultation. Highly recommend you go through that process. I've sat through it personally. All of our clients did do it. The best thing you can do to ensure that we know exactly what we're doing and why we're doing it. And then we can confidently, you know, go into the marketplace and find you home. And so, you know, when a client hears it, it's really easy for us to then just have that process start. Yeah, because the expectation is set up from the realtor, but the big takeaway that I'm hearing there is obviously you've coached your realtor's on how to set you up, how to make you preferable. Right. Right. And you have to do it almost like, you know, you don't have to, but it's really helpful if you do it from the first phone call because I would ask realtor, how often when you refer a client to a lender, do you see that momentum or motivation slow down and they're like all the time. And it's because, well, you could do something very small in the front end of that process in terms of connecting the two people, you know, by scheduling that create the high level of customer service and a higher level of momentum. And so just that one small thing that we teach our partners has been such a big, big win for them and for the clients and for us. Are you saying that the realtor's have access to your calendar for scheduling because you, you know, kind of reference that in the, in the talk room? No, so essentially, I mean, a realtor can just say, hey, Mrs. Smith, what's the best day time at phone number to have, you know, our finance and team call you? Got it. And he can say Thursday at four and we have, you know, multiple mortgage advisors and, and lead managers and, you know, there's so many people on our team that are trained and can make that initial phone call that they don't ever have to then call. And you know, if you're a single source originator, they can't really say that because I'm going to have to call you and say, okay, Ryan, are you available Thursday at four? No, I got kids, soccer practice or whatever. And so, you know, it just being able to, and this is kind of tangential, but being able to, if I called you today, and I just said, hey, you know, I'm calling to talk to you about your new home and financing. Like, would you just have 30 minutes that are completely undivided attention you can give to me? So you hadn't carved out? Yeah. No one, no one does, right? And we're just expecting like, we're just expected to make a phone call to somebody out of the blue where they have all the time and attention to talk about the most important decision of their life. So, you know, we want to have that call to be scheduled and anyway, that's a small coaching thing, but it makes a big difference. Well, what I love about that is somebody alone officers could get better at coaching the realtors on the referral process, you know, but right there, like you said, this is really the start of that customer experience and, you know, I mean, listen, it comes back to my, I know a lot of fellows are like, you know, well, how am I going to get my realtors to do apps right to do this? We, there's a number of things we want our realtors to do. Well, the only thing, the only thing, in my opinion, like, you know, to answer that question is they have to see the importance of it for the consumer. If they see the importance of it for their client, they'll do it, but if they think they're doing it for you, they may not, right, one of our guys yesterday said, you know, a real to said, you know, I kind of feel like I'm being your personal assistant. Like, no, no, no, you're definitely not. You are, you are making sure that the consumer experience is incredible and you're ensuring that we keep their motivation momentum level high and then having them go through our process in a way where they can make more confident decisions and then kind of the light turns on and they think, oh, yeah, like, I'm not doing this for anybody else, not doing it for me. I'm not doing it for the lender. I'm doing it for our client. Yeah. Right. And I know we don't have time to get into it, but I know like when you do meet with a real to a real partner, you're kind of, you know, why should you partner with the Ryan Grant team? I say, I know I'm assuming just because I get a sense of who you are. You know, you're really mapping out the, what makes us different as a lender, right? It starts with, right? Let's get on the same page about how we're jointly serving this client at a higher level. And then, you know, you're kind of building that, that whole referral process with them. So they understand they get it their own board. Correct. Yeah. It's a, you know, when we do a, when we meet a new realtor, we have the opportunity to talk to somebody about our value proposition as a business partner. Now, it's a multi-step process. So we initially show them, you know, we do a presentation to them about our client experience so they can see it through their eyes. And then, assuming that they want to take the next step, then we have a business partnership planning meeting where we get into how we work together on a day-to-day week-to-week month-to-month, because all of our referral partners and our, our realtor's don't just see us as a resource where their clients get their loans fund, but they legitimately see us as a, as a business partner on a day-to-day, because of the fact of how we integrate them into our system and vice versa. And so we work really well together and we've seen a huge level of growth in their business because of some of the best practices we've put in place and we've learned a lot from them. And so it's a really fun thing for us to partner with people who understand the value of the partnership. Hey, I'm curious on that note. Understand the value of the partnership. That is a key point there because any realtor, once you've laid out your, your, your, your five star client experience, a smart realtor is going to know that you're helping build a fence around those clients, you're helping ensure that they get that transaction versus that client going somewhere else, am I right on that? Yeah, it's one of the, one of the many things they, they take away from it. Yeah, so then I'm curious about that, this is, this may be a kind of a tangent question, but because you know the whole, hey, pay, pay for my leave of the Zillow game, right? So I'm curious, how many realtor's, if any, right? Are you engaged with on a lead share thing and do you have a selective process, you know, before you're willing to do something? Yeah, so I tell everybody the same thing, look, if, you know, what, what, you know, my passion is, you know, the business of the mortgage industry and a, a really great auxiliary benefit of that is we get to help a lot of families buy homes. Now the, it really goes back to the business channel is that if we're working with a partner who we fully believe in and they fully believe in us, then why wouldn't we invest in growing our collective businesses? It's like, we're not doing it for them, we're not doing it for us, we're doing it for our business as a whole and so if we're saying that we can reach more consumers by, you know, both going into a marketing strategy and we can help more people in the way that we see fit, then why wouldn't we? You know, so there's no, I don't really have a, a set guideline for, you know, when we do co-branded marketing or when we don't or it's really just a matter of, do we believe in the individual, is there, are they fully committed to the partnership? They fully believe in the value of it and, you know, we're really going right now to try and go more direct to consumer ourselves and so we're really diving into that channel which we have not done for the last six years and so just in the last six months we've really started to dive into okay, how can we, how can we aggregate more clients, how can we get to the consumer, how can we use social media better, how can we use our online presence better and so now we're able to generate a lot of business that we can then refer back to our, our realtor partners and so it's definitely a two way street, we don't, we don't typically partner with anybody who doesn't fully understand the value of the partnership and I think the biggest difference is, you know, some realtor think, well, you know, I should send this, this one officer deal because he's, you know, we're loyal or because, you know, he helps you assist or because he helps me with that. The key differentiator is that we want our partners to realize that the more they send us, people to talk to, the higher chances they have of helping that person buy a cell at home and so they don't think that they, you know, they want to or that they, you know, that they're obligated to send us anybody, they should really understand that they absolutely should and need to if they want their business to grow because like I said, there's a lot of fear and anxiety in the marketplace right now. Every person we meet with, you know, always has some fear or some unknown or some lack of education and as a realtor, sometimes you know, it's hard to overcome that because a lot of it's financial and so if you're not working with a lender in 2018 that has the system and has the process of walking a client through not only what they can do but what they should do and getting them to fully understand that comprehend it and believe it and be motivated by it, it's going to be difficult because at that point we're only going to help the one or two people out of a hundred that have made the decision to buy a cell at home but that leaves 98 or 99 people who have not made the decision because they don't have anybody to help them with that. That's our goal, you know, our goal is to help 98 or 99 people who have an interest or just want to learn more and then from that there's going to be a big subset of people that end up needing to buy cell or refining to do whatever but most people aren't doing anything right now because they're paralyzed based upon the fear and anxiety that's coming to them from the media. Yeah, it's like you said at the beginning as our job is not to free-whole or jobs to remove jobs. Right. Yeah, whether they're getting into the market active or they're deciding to just sit it out for a while. Yeah, that's all we care about, right? All we care about is that we give them enough information to make an educated decision. I know. And I think that most loan officers, definitely they don't intend to do it but they're actually doing more harm than really do a transaction because, you know, let's say someone's paying $2,200 a month for rent but they want to buy a $500,000 condo and you have 5% to put down. Well, their payment is going to be $1,300 roughly. So if you tell Mr. Smith, hey, Mr. Smith, congratulations, you're pretty approved. You can go buy a, you know, a house that condo is 5% down, payment is $3,400, let us know when you find one. We're happy to help. Well, Mr. Smith is not going to be really eager to go out and buy that condo, right? He's not going to understand why he should do that. So he's going to make a decision. He's just not going to be an educated one. And, you know, the realtor and the lender are both going to think they did their job. But in reality, the lender didn't do his job. The lender just gave me the information he needed to make a bad decision. But if you show him, well, look, this is what you're paying in rent now, but we know you're not going to stay there. So what would you be paying in rent in a year or two? And then with rising rental increases, then what would you be paying? Well, compare apples to apples and then let's now also get a tax benefit and also get the wealth impact. And what's really makes sense of should you or should you not do this? And that's when I say that we positively impact the psychology of the consumer. I don't mean that we make them buy a home through some psychological gymnastics, what I mean is we give them all the ability and confidence in the world to make their decision. As opposed to, I'm just going to rent for another year, I'm just going to save more money and they don't realize the market is going to run away from them faster than they can catch up to it. Yeah. That's great. Right. And it's also valuable for the realtor in that when they come to you, you're getting them mortgage ready to be active in the market if that's the right choice for them. Yeah. The partners we work with are really, you know, they love it because when they show homes to people, those people are not only, you know, financially motivated and understanding the why behind why they should do this, but they also have a really big competitive advantage. So, you know, when you're motivated intrinsically knowing that it really makes the most financial sense for your family, but then you also have a leg up over competitive offers because, you know, you can write an offer where you can close in 15 days and you look like a cash to offer and because of our standing in the real estate industry or the community here, you know, our clients have a 72% offer acceptance rate since the beginning of 2016, whereas the average home has six offers on it, which means the average person has a 16% chance to get an offer accepted. So again, going back to value, I mean, you can get a really low rate from an online call center and not get a house. Yeah. I don't know why you'd want to do that. You know, I think that most people would rather get a really competitive interest rate, just actually have a much higher probability of owning a home. I love that. I'm writing that down. But not getting a house. You can get a really low rate for a bottom line member, but not getting a house because that's... Yeah. You can have your 2% interest rate and sit in your rental for a long time, or you can own a home with a really competitive rate with somebody who will ensure that you're always in the best rate. Yeah. That's fantastic. And that you feel really confident about the decision made. Right. Yeah. That's awesome. Hey, I didn't get a chance to ask you at the front for those that are curious. You know, I know you are. If I read correctly, you know, I was trying to find out some stats. Number one, lender in Orange County. That is awesome. You know, that's a huge accomplishment. I think a bit of a market. It's a 3 million people living in Orange County. I think two and a half million are low on the originators. Yeah. You're amazing. You may be right. But how many families did you guys help last year? Just under 399 families. Wow. That's awesome, man. Congratulations. You know, obviously, you know, it's funny, man, if I were to get back in the business and be active, I'd be like, like, OK, I'm going to work with Ryan Granting. That's it because I think you are doing it the right way. You've got the blueprint. And, you know, how would people reach out to you to know to learn more about you? Go to your website. Yeah, I think you can go to our website, which is just RyanGrantTeam.com, where you can email team at RyanGrantTeam.com. And, you know, there's different ways in which you can be a part of what we're doing. You know, we are looking to, we're looking at opening, you know, an office space in the kind of Croner Riverside area in the North Orange County area and in San Diego and other areas throughout, I mean, certainly throughout the United States, but we're starting a little more local. But, again, my, in bringing people over and bringing teams on, we're really looking for people who can grow a team and in giving them the platform and the blueprint to be able to do that because, you know, it took me a lot of trial and error to get to where we are. And now, you know, people don't need to go through those same roadblocks. They can have the pathway and we can support them and we can show them exactly who your first hire needs to be, your second, your third, your fourth, your fifth, who needs to be doing what, you know, what you should be doing versus the team. And I think that's one of the biggest hurdles of any originator in America is they can't figure out how to get to the next step because they don't have the resources, they don't have the support or the coaching to do so. And I think, you know, for people to make a decision if they want to change their current employment situation, the only reason anybody in my opinion should make a change right now is to get better, you know, to learn how to, to grow a really high performing mortgage team or just go to work for somebody who's going to provide you leads and that will be your, your job. But that's what we're passionate about now is helping as many people as possible be able to, you know, build a team, run a really strong business and, you know, be more valuable to their clients and to their business partners. Fantastic. Well, I appreciate you being here sharing the wisdom, man. You've got a bunch of notes. I'll put some links on that. As you might know, it's for the book you mentioned, experience economy to your website and so forth for those who might want to reach out to you. So thank you so much for sharing your time and expertise today, man. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you having me. You bet. And listeners, as always, we appreciate you. If you like today's episode, if you haven't subscribed yet, please do so. You know how to do that. Also, share the love on the reviews, iTunes or Stitcher, let me hear what you think about the podcast. So thanks for tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in Mortgage Marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that. You're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchase loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it. Communications are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus, done for you proven marketing materials and plug-and-play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top L.O.'s, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere from 8 to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.