Ep #73: How This Top 1% Loan Officer Gets 36% of His 203 Closed Loans from Social Media

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio. And brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing. Hey, listen, Jeff, it's him for welcome. Once again, to this week's episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio, thanks for tuning in. How are you? How you doing? I'm listening to this. I don't know. We're probably, by the time you listen to this, I'm recording this on April 28, 2018. So by the time you get this, we're going to be in May. So we're officially getting into the second half of the year here. How you doing? Are you on track? Are you where you'd like to be? If not, hopefully we're bringing value to you, bringing you ideas, motivation, direction, guidance and accountability to help you be the best you can be. Because that's really the idea behind this podcast, truth in mortgage marketing, bringing you what really works in today's market. If you want to build a long-term, sustainable, professional mortgage practice, that's what we're all about. If you're looking to just be a transaction jockey, not build true sustainability and wealth and reliability and consistency in your business, no, maybe business in the place for you. Not assuming it is and you're at the right place, let's talk. If you like the episode, if you like the podcast, I'd love to know. Reach out to me anytime you know you can. How do you do it? The email me, info at mortgagemarketing.com. Also if you're a podcast fan, fanboy, fangirl, hey, you want some swag to share the love, I'd be happy to send you some swag in exchange for your review on iTunes, Stitcher, the Interwebs on the blog at mortgage marketing institute, wherever you want to do that. Some folks who recently got some cool, sexy swag in the mail, some soft, cop-made, beautiful high-quality t-shirts are people like Brad Smith, Scott Dick Gregorio, Zach Williams, Philip Price, and Sean Evans t-shirts in route, come into you, how you get yours, hey, leave us a review. Let us know how you like the podcast, the difference is made in your business, and just email me. You're addressing your shirt size, we'll send you out a little thank you gift just for taking a couple of minutes to let us know, you appreciate the podcast, we appreciate you. So again, email me, info at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com, shirt size address, and the fact that you're left here with you and where you did, and we'll get you some swag. Just be patient because these things are all ordered on the man, they take a little bit of time to get back, and there is a small investment for him on our part, to actually of course order these t-shirts, mail them to you, but again, hopefully it can't conveys to you how much we want to build a relationship with our audience. You are the reason why we do this, it's a labor of love, you could say, so with that said, well let's talk about this week's special guest. Once again, I am so thrilled that the willingness to share and the giving heart and the giving spirit of most of the top producers that I have the privilege to associate with in this industry. This week, my special guest falls right into that category, somebody who's, yes, a top producer, a top 1% consistently ranked in the mortgage industry, his stats, what did he do? Two hundred and three families he helped in 2017. I think you'll love about this episode is, there's a lot of talk and you're probably thinking this as well as you're driving in two lanes in the mortgage business for generating business probably, right? You got the one lane which is the go-to lane, which is the real estate agent, and that's like a core foundation, right, that we've got to have that in place, but then the other lane that we're hopefully getting in and riding in is consumer direct, right? And what is that deal with? Well that deals with building your brand online, right? The presence on social media, what type of content are you producing and sharing, video content, written content, articles, blogs, etc., content that people can consume, content that positions you as a relevant thought leader, somebody who's knowledgeable, and that helps to build trust during that cycle in which people are going to be potentially shopping for a lender, looking for information online, buying in today's market and so forth. How are you doing in that category? So today's guest, Dan Keller, just a rock star, you may have heard of him if you're in a circle of groups that he and I swim in, such as mortgage coach, for example, he's definitely a high strong advocate of the mortgage coach software if you haven't heard about that. Get with my friend Dave Savage on Facebook, mortgage coach, reach out, we got to use a mortgage coach if you want to develop it in today's market. But what we unpack with Dan in this conversation is how his business has grown and how he's actually intentionally got, you know, put more effort into that lane of consumer direct. So what does Dan do different? First of all, Dan's just frigging content genius. If you go to his website, mortgageguidedan.com, it's got to be one of the best mortgage websites I think I've ever seen when it comes to a personal brand mortgage website where you are the brand, right, where you're on there. It's not just about your company and your company logo, right, but it's about the content, the rumbling content, and the user experience, because let's face it, folks, even if you get a referral today, before that referral calls you, what's the first thing they're going to do? Yeah, they're going to Google you. They're going to go to your website. They're going to check you out. They're going to see, what do they find? What's the brand perception of you online in your local market? And if you're looking for a good example of what's just a rocket kick-ass professional brand, Dan Gellers, the man, man, I got to tell you, I'm just so thrilled that I'm impressed with what he's doing with video. He's doing lunch and learned. He's got branding around his open house, or I mean, his first time buyer, classes, just an amazing, amazing use case, a case study, and personal branding. So we're going to unpack, right, how Dan Leverge's Facebook adds to Target the top 500 Mill estate agents in his local area, how he builds his brand using Facebook to do that. So when he does call those Targeted agents, it's no longer a cold comb, it's a warm comb. So we're going to talk about how Dan does pop-box and how to make pop-boxed your mill estate agents not cheese, right, how to show up and look professional, how Dan Leverge's social media to target home buyers. What is the process that Dan takes people through, using video, right, to help educate and move people along in the buying process? So there's much less of this selling, hey, what's your rate, and there's more just, well, Dan, obviously, it's the man that he knows his stuff, I trust him, Dan, just tell me what's next. You know, in the real estate space, that's what we call cum-list means, where if you've built a big enough strong enough brand, that's, you know, built your credibility and your trust through content, what you get are these phone calls, there's a rose data called cum-list means. And in this case, in the lending space, it's like, hey, right, finance me. You're my man. I've seen what you do. It's awesome. What are your online reviews look like? What is your presence online, loan officer listening right now? If you need help in that area, dive into this episode, take notes, check out the resources we put in the show notes, notes in the show notes, the links, and more coffee. And I guarantee you, this is a crash course in how to build a personal brand, how to leverage online with offline, combine the tier for a rocket business like Dan has done, in 2017, I believe it was 36 or 37% of his business came from social media, his blog, and you'll hear Dan unpacked out, and that was at zero cost to him. Think about that. 36% of 200 units, pretty significant. So check it out, hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Get ready for a crash course in personal branding and social media. Let's get into this week's show. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show. Hey, buddy, thanks for having me. It's an honor. No, man, it's an honor to have you, because I've been watching you stocking you from afar, and I believe we can all learn from each other in this industry. And there's so many things I see that you do well, so I'm just thrilled for my audience to have you here too. In the short time, we got kind of teal back some of the things Dan does to a generate business. So that's what we're going to unpack today. You ready? Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'll give you my bath. Awesome. Okay, so real quick, as I told you before, we hit record, right? There's a formal interview. I do you people kind of heard that, but people always like to get the personal take on who's Dan Keller, what's y'all about, you know, tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah. So, obviously, my name's Dan Keller. I'm up here, Morgan Zone Officer up here in the Seattle Marketplace, and I got in the mortgage industry at the end of 2008, so just a really time time to be fun times. The great thing about I think, you know, it's my story is, you know, I got in and I didn't know, I didn't know how much money a loan originator could actually make to, I had no idea how much money loan originators were making prior to the meltdown, which was, I guess, a lot. And then how easy they had it or how good they had it. What I know is government, you know, overlays, government loans, and that's what I learned right away in 2008. I learned the USDA loan, the VA loan, the FHA loan, and I'll tell you what, if I ever got a conventional loan, it was just, it was a dream come true. So, you know, meaning if I had borrowers that had, like, good credit scores and money down. You know, I learned the hard way how to put together a really good loan application. And I also learned more work ethic, you know, I didn't lack, I didn't lack work ethic. I came from, I had a really good career as a professional strength and conditioning coach and college professor. So, you know, I was up every morning grinding, working with athletes off the clock, helping them, perfect their skills. You know, when I did have the opportunity to leave that career and jump into lending, the big, for me, the idea was after I closed my first transaction, or actually, I interned or mentored with someone and I saw how loans were structured and how you were paid. A lightbulb went off in my head that that number is super scalable and when he showed me the breakdown of the first transaction, I closed and the total commission on it was $6,000 and he paid me less than 50% on that. It motivated me to go, well, what, I wonder if I did five of these a month and I wonder what would, well, my financial, my financial situation would look like if I did 10 of these a month. And so, yeah, I just, I started grinding right away, I went out and took my skillset that I had as a professor and as a strength and conditioning coach and that was to teach and make people's lives around me better. And I did that and I started doing that with real estate agent and no training. My mentor, it's not like the guy that I was working under with at the time, he actually owned a mortgage company so I wasn't working under him, what he would do is he would send me the files that didn't necessarily get approved and you know, pay work on these or this, how you do it and bottom line, I basically had to swim for myself. So, you know, I just, right away, I went out and just started to meet real estate agents and anyone who had listened to me talk about mortgages, you know, I preached and that was a, let's just fast forward, I guess the 2009, I started kind of better understanding that I could go in and get in front of a bunch of realtors and at the time real estate agents were depressed, they were looking at the glass, half empty and I think I was that fresh, I guess that fresh, you know, that fresh approach, that positive approach I came in and I was jacked up and excited and they were down and out and so I made a pretty good reputation in the area that every single week I was going to host a lunch and learn, it was going to be centered around, you know, motivating them and inspiring them and showing them how to go out and get more deals and that was through just advice and that was through content and we did that through open houses and home buyer classes. So, I started that, no, nine and I'm going to be honest with you fast forward, let's say nine years later, 2018, I do the same thing, I still do a lunch and learn, I still do home buyer classes and in fact I've just scaled that, I've gotten really good at that and then leveraging social media and leveraging the internet, you know, we fill up and I still call realtors, I still meet realtors, I still do everything I did and back then but I do it at a higher level now. So I'm curious, you were a professor of strength and conditioning coach, what's the line, you know, the pivot towards being a mortgage loan officer, how did you get there? Yeah, yeah, you know, I split the couple of home back in no 405 and then just with the, I guess the realization that I purchased my first home, which was condominium right after 9-11 and it was that 2001 and you know, that, I bought that home for that condo for 89 grand and it went up to 180, you know, three, four years later and I sold that and met my wife and we were able to buy our first home so I think real estate all, we kind of intrigued me. I knew I didn't really want to be a real estate agent but the fact that I was making more money on the side if you will in real estate intrigued me and the financial planning part of that, what to do with that money and how to make more of it because I came from nothing, my mom and I grew up very poor, you know, so the idea that I could have 30, 40 grand in my bank account was, I considered myself rich, so, so, you know, I got a piece of that and it just, you know, I was recruiting as a college, as a strength and conditioning coach, the head coaches for the baseball teams would bring me on recruiting trips and, you know, because I was able to show people and I was able to, you know, get people from, you know, A to B rather quickly and, you know, I would go into parents' houses and convince mom and dad to give me their most prized possession for one or two years and I think the big, the big all-hot for me was in 2006, I landed two big, big division one athlete and I was coaching at a community college at the time and I landed two huge division one athlete, convinced mom and dad and the athlete to give me one year in the way at room and both of those kids and got the buy-in from the parent, both of those kids did and I took them from, you know, 30 round drafts, this is the second round drafts, they're signing for a million dollars, my light bulb went off in my head that I'm in sale, I'm selling these parents and these kids on a better life and I wasn't getting paid for it and so when I had, you know, when I was kind of approached the idea of doing home loans and home loans being you're just selling people on them using you for a mortgage, I was like, I can't do this, this is nothing, you know, home, I mean, they got to go somewhere for a mortgage, why not eat? Yeah, this is fake and then when I found out you could make three grand commission on a mortgage, I was like, well, shoot, I'm just going to do 10 of those a month and I'm going to be rich. That's what I was thinking and so, yeah, that's really how I pivoted, it wasn't a tough pit and in fact, it was an easier pivot than anyone listening to this could ever imagine. It was, you know, I went for making $50,000, $60,000 a year to 100, my first year to, you know, $179, my second to, by 2012 I was breaking, I was making over 350 grand a year to a month, so, you know, it just, it was, it was fairly simple for me, man, it work is work and it's just what you get paid for putting in the work, that was really the only difference. Yeah, so there's a couple of things in there. I think one is, I think why you're successful today and also in, you know, convincing those parents to let go of their most prized possession, their child, it's because I think you have what is the DNA of all high performing mortgage originators specifically, but I think, you know, just quote salespeople in general and probably people and that is, you know, you're coming from the right place, right? I think, you know, to quote Dave Ramsey, the heart of the teacher instead of a heart of salesperson, yes, you're in sales, but you don't need with a transaction. Exactly. Exactly. And the only difference, the real big difference is it's actually scaled down, you know, instead of dealing with a parent's most prized possession, I'm dealing with a family's, most prized financial asset and that's one, they're real estate, but two, being a mortgage load officer is incredible. I mean, I'm looking, when I teach, when I teach home art classes, I kind of use a plenty of analogies that listen, I, you're going to bear all with me financially. I'm going to see you financially naked. I'm going to see your asset. You know, and just much like a doctor, I'm going to, I can give you that check up. And most doctors, when you go see a doctor, you know, if you got a, if you got a broken, you know, femur, he's not going to fix it. He's going to refer you to his arm and leg doctor, his bone doctor, right? You know, or a physician or specialist. And so, and I tell my clients that when I meet with them, listen, I'm going to see every aspect of your finances. And I think it'd be a disservice to me if I saw something, if I see you, Mr. Smith, and you've got two little kids and a beautiful wife, and you have no life insurance, you know, or you're under insured or, you know, you're not, you've got $34,000 in your savings, but you're not taking advantage of an employee matched for a 1K program. And so, you know, this is where I have the opportunity to refer them on. I'm looking at them and I can refer them to a financial planner. I can refer them to a CTA or an estate attorney and so an insurance professional. So, it's, I take it, I take it, the same approach I took as a strengthening conditioning coach. I have just literally transitioned in the mortgage industry and fairly easy, fairly simple transition for me. Yeah. Do you find that process of, you know, getting financially naked, so to speak with clients and, you know, noticing that they're lacking in life insurance and bringing that up, was that a natural thing for you? Did you have to train yourself to do that? You know, yeah, so right away in 2008, 2009, I was put in a ton of hours. I was so pumped up to learn this industry and to create a better life financially for my family, that, you know, when everyone else would leave the office every single day, they had to stick around. And there was a couple of guys, including the owner of the mortgage company and his branch manager, who did very little production, talked a big game, we're not people by any means that I would look up to today at all, they left their office doors open. And, you know, so I, you know, I'd peek my head in and they had bookcases full of books and, you know, one guy in particular, it was a collector of books, he would buy the cool book and go to the conferences and buy all the CD programs that just never implement them. And so slowly, slowly, you know, week by week, day by day, I'd sneak in there and I'd grab a CD and, you know, right away, there was a couple of big conferences where, you know, you've heard of the dinosaurs in our industry, the Todd Duncan, the Jim McMan, the Barry of Bebes, the Sue Woodards, and just the name of you, Ky McBride, and, you know, you know, these guys speak at these conferences, well, then, you know, I got wind of the loan toolbox and just, I would just listen, I was just a sponge man. And, you know, a lot of this, that was, this was content that was being produced, you know, you know, six of seven and oh eight. And I kept, you know, Jim McMan and these guys, you talk about height, you know, and high trust selling and all that stuff and I was like, wow, like this is, this is speaking my language because I never looked at a kid or an athlete and saw dollar signs or what it was, what was in it for me, I looked at them is, you know, hey, you've got some talent I could see though, that if we did this, this, and this, you'd be an all-American. Or, man, if you just put in the work and we can, let's say you were never an all-American or pro athlete, but you put in the work, what that would do to you mentally and what kind of man that would create, you know, five years from now when you're out in the workplace. And so, here these guys talk about a better way of selling. I learned early on that your mortgage is simply one part of the wheel, one part of the financial wheel in one's financial life, you know, there's so many other aspects of it. So, I incorporated that in right away, I've literally separated myself from the pack right away as a young, young loan officer from what banks and credit unions and everyone else was doing back then. And I still, that today, I still, I literally have the same mortgage planning packet that I used, you know, in 2009 that I used today. Wow. You know, there's so many lessons in there, you know, when you used that phrase put in the work, it made me think of just the other day, a friend of mine posted a screen shot of, all right, I'm going way back, maybe dating myself. Remember the karate kid movie, the original one? Oh yeah. And the crane, the crane move, the crane kick, right? Yeah. And the busted ankle. So, he posted this thing on Facebook. I just thought it was so spot on with what you just said, he said, nobody wants to paint the fence, wax the car, scrub the floor, all right? There's a reason working on this game before the victory in the movie. And I like, when you said that, that came up for me, put in the work. And you were a guy who was willing to put in the work of, you know, understanding, this is more than just, you know, getting on the phone and quoting rates, it's much bigger. Which obviously, it's your success. Yeah. Yeah. So, you take the focus off of that. And even in today's market, where I guess we can transition into, you know, today's loan officer in today's market, where, you know, we've got the quickens, we've got the online lenders and we've got our local banks and credit unions that, and margins are getting tight enough. You know, the focus needs to be on value, the focus needs to be off of rate and fees, which I believe that's important, but maybe in the, in the market industry, it's tight anyways. And the difference between the best rate out there and the worst rate out there is in top by much. And so, what I tend to do with my clients, I want to explain that to them up front, but I want to take the focus off of that onto, okay, one, in the Seattle market, you've got to have a strategy. And using Bank of America as your mortgage lending team is not the best strategy. And don't take that advice from me, listing agents will tell you that. And your agents, whatever agent you use will tell you that. So, let's talk about strategy. And then let's talk about some other things that are important. Again, I take the focus now off of the mortgage free approval and I put it on budgeting. And I put it on your short term and your long term financial goal. You have an insurance agent that's going to be able to give you some advice on the coverage that you're going to need to ensure you're, your house and your family. You have a financial planner, you know, have you ever considered a life insurance, and if you do, how much do you have, is it enough? You know, so we start talking about things like that and they leave this meeting, this mortgage planning meeting, with a pretty good idea of their financial situation, what they need to do, you know, how well equipped they are right now, and as well as their options for going out and competing in the marketplace. And so I think it's just really important when you're looking at, today I do a lot of coaching. I'm also a branch manager, so I've got 13 load officers right now and I coach every single one of them. And, you know, I'm trying to coach each one of them on understanding that a mortgage is just one piece of puzzle. It's a big piece and we have an opportunity to not just help a customer or a client, we have an opportunity to be factored and woven into to someone's financial life forever. And it's that, and it's big, I get people coming back to me today from a year ago, two years ago, five years ago, and thanking me for introducing them to the financial planner or an insurance agent, you know, or, you know, an estate attorney. And so I think I teach more of that to my LLOs today and then same thing, values, just give, give a ton of values, got to show the value and then working with us versus the call center rep. Absolutely, I think that's the word of the year value for 2018, it's only going to continue as well. All right, so let's, let's change directions a little bit because I think that's awesome to play the foundation, you know, strategic mindset, if you will, we know we're coming from, you know, you're about, right, trading up value, value, driven experience. Let's start on pack how you're growing and building your business. There's, as you know, when we talk before I said there's two lanes, I see you doing very well in, that people could model one is the consumer direct, the other is the realtor piece, let's take the consumer direct, I think for now because, you know, the realtor piece will always be there and I think you should, you talked about the fundamentals of that when you first, when we first started, right, which was like you're doing the classes on much of learns and, you know, you're, you're out in the bow, building, building relationships, but we know the hot topic is, hey man, how do I pull away from the realtors and not be so dependent upon that? Yeah, you, it looks like you've done a pretty good job of that. You shared some stats with me the other day of the percentage of business you're now pulling closed loans off of social media, you, I have a handy, but do you want to reference those? Yeah, it's about 30%. So I'm, I'm coach and, you know, full disclosure, I've been in the, the core for about three years and, and, you know, we have to part of being in coach, I don't care what coaching company or what coach you're working for, if you're not tracking your numbers, you should fire your coach. And so one of the things that they make me do is really track my numbers. Well, last year when, or, I'll, let me backtrack two years ago when I was applying for level three coaching at the core, they had to audit where my numbers came from the previous year. So in 2016, I, we had to go back through and track every funded loan and where it came from. And, um, something that, that came out of that was super surprising, it's time 27% was like 26 and some change came from my, my blog and social media. And, and I knew that the core in general is not, they want you to pound real estate agents, pound real estate agents, pound real estate agents, that's it, really. And builders, if you can. And, um, they're not real big on social media and they weren't real big on the internet. And the funny thing is 27% of my business came from my blog and social media and I paid zero dollars for that. And so, um, my growth commissions that year, um, W2 earnings in 2016 was little under 600 K. V take 30% of that, which is round up, one third of that, you do the math, the couple hundred thousand dollars I made and I paid nothing for that. Now of those, of that business, um, a lot of them came to me without a real estate agent. So then what am I able to do? I'm able to refer out a realtor. So, you know, it's, it's scaled a little bit higher in 2017, but I'm about 33%, 30 to 33% of my business comes from my blog and social media, uh, just this year, uh, there was some, some survey or some questions asked in a Facebook group that I'm in, um, the other day and it was how much, how much volume or how many transactions you were referred out to real estate agents this year. And this year, what is it, April 26, 2018, $7.3 million, I referred out to real estate agents this year, $7.3 million in referral. I think it's credible. I mean, you know, just this last week, I sent 1.6 million to an agent of mine. It was a listing plus purchase. And so it's, that's, that's the value of being consumer direct. That's the value of creating content. Is it work? Yes. It sucks writing a blog post. It sucks paying money and learning how to make better Facebook posts or Facebook ads. I call it a cocky writing, um, you know, I heard a guy by the name Robert Stover last year and met him through Dave Savage and it was how to make better videos, how to make a better, how to create a breakthrough message. And this guy has been an advisor to screenwriters in Hollywood and, you know, yeah, it sucks having to learn all that and, you know, spend time doing that. But it pays off. Yeah. No, creating a blog post, it gets, there's nothing better and I've been in the car with the wife before my phone's right. And I picked it up and it's on speaker phone and this person, this happens all the time. Hey, I'm on your blog right now. Actually, I'm on your YouTube channel, watching a video on, you know, FHA financing or USDA financing. Do you have a moment real quick that I'm done selling it that I have nothing to sell that person? Right. They're already, they're already halfway down the funnel. They're, you know, the next step is to send a link or to set up a mortgage planning meeting. And we're, and then we just feel the deal. And so for in itself, it's, it's basically free. And now with Facebook, I was going to ask you, are you driving your consumer directs for face to face mortgage consultations? I am. You know, I, I am. And nowadays with, with the ability to get better at running Facebook ads, I am, I'm running. And again, it's just calling 10. Big believer in giving, just give a ton of value, give a ton of content and be authentic. I think there's the consumers today, there's so many ads out there, everywhere they look to getting paid. So there's an ad or there's an opt in, you know, you can click on three pictures on a real estate website. And the next thing, you know, you got to opt in, I just give, I give the information. And at the end of my hook, my call to action is, hey, I want to be a mortgage advisor. You know, if you want more information like this, personalize your current situation, I want you to reach out to me and I want a schedule of mortgage planning meeting or schedule of call. Just go from there. And that's working for me. I think being authentic up here in Seattle, a lot of millennials in the market and they're smart. You know, these, a lot of my clients are 26 to 28, they're, you know, making 8, 9, 10 grand a month at Amazon or tech company. Right. They have access to all that information. So just giving it to them or giving them an approach they haven't seen or an angle they haven't seen before or some value they haven't been able to find before is big and they're trust and then go from there. But Facebook ads have helped lately. It's certainly helping with traffic. It certainly helps the big strategy for my home buyer classes. I'm using Facebook ads to run to real estate agents to get in front of real estate agents so that when I do call call them, it's not a call call or when I am in their office, they're like, I know that guy. Yeah, let's unpack that a little bit because I know listeners are listening, you know, they're like salivating. Okay, okay. I get it. How does he do that? So first, I want to talk about the blog and I'll put a link in the show notes, but it's my mortgage guy, Dan dot com, right? Correct. Okay. So on the blog, first of all, it's designed really well, man. So awesome job there. You've got various calls to action on there. Plus, you've got content. You've got this series called making sense of the markets, CDNTS, one way. And so obviously it's ongoing video series, curious how you structure, how you actually schedule your filming of that. And you have like a content calendar or you like do it all on one day for the month? How's that? Yeah. Good question. And I get to test a lot. So obviously, it's a home bar class prior to the presidential election in 2016. It was in September and every single, every single attendee was freaking out there. They is now a good time to buy, I mean, with presidential election and this and that and, you know, Trump and Hillary and, you know, blah, blah, blah. So confused, confused people. So what I did following that class is I sent down some information on what the market had done in each of the last, I don't know, five or six elections, you know, and they're like, well, this one's going to be different because, and I said, no, it's not, it's not going to be different. Okay. And so I sent them that information and kind of a light bulb went off in my head like these people are confused right now, these young, you know, millennials, I don't care who they are, any homeowners, home buyers, these are confusing times. And this is an opportunity for me to kind of take advantage of this and take a neutral stance. I never, you know, support, you know, the laughter or the right. I take it, you know, as it relates to the mortgage industry or the real estate industry up here in Seattle, what does what's going on in the market? What is it going to do to impact their current situation or future buying decisions? And so I was thinking about this. The next class was in November, right around the election time, and same thing, we had about 30 attendees super confused, the number one question that everyone had was centered around what happens if Trump gets elected, what's going to happen to the economy and the real estate markets and mortgage markets, and then what happens, same thing if Hillary elected, and I made a point in November of 2016 to start a weekly column called Making Sense of the Market, and it's just literally making sense of what the heck's going on. And I've done it ever since then every single week, I am a couple of weeks behind uploading here on the blogs that have been out of town, but I do a video every single week. I do it right here from my office. I do it from my iPhone, I plug in a little lapel mic, and I do very, very little edits, and I try to keep them under three minutes. But I can tell you that I've converted the E as a result of this. I send this out to my pre-approved database, I send this out to my prospect database, I send it out to my active clients and close client database, I send out to my realtors every single week, and then I put it on social media, and some of them I'll run Facebook at YouTube. It's been the biggest difference needle mover in my business over the last year, just this weekly video show, if you will, making sense of the market. So at the end of the day, it's content, if you're listening to this, we have information that the public needs and wants to get it out there, and it's huge, and it's exactly what you're doing with these shows, you're getting good content out in the marketplace. I follow guys like Gary Vaynerchuk, and Tim Ferris, and you get any of these superstars whether they are entrepreneurs or business people, and speakers, what they're doing, they're all doing the same thing, and they're just creating valuable content, and they're adding value to their industries. And it's our job to do that, and if you do it, it will pay off, it's not going to pay off right away, it's not like I got people right away call me, but nowadays, if I miss a week, and I have missed a week, I end up getting milk and tactical, hey, you okay? You know, I think this is your video this weekend, I think it's your, and I use bomb bomb to send it out, and handing it to email, it might still on the list, you know, so no, man, there's tons of value in that. There is, and thank you for saying you said you use bomb bomb to send out the video emails, and of course you're then uploading that same video to YouTube, is that what you do? Yeah, I am, so the time, it takes me to shoot the video is about three to five minutes. I normally spend a couple of minutes editing it, but I do drop in a little bumper, and if I need to drop a picture in, I use just, I'm, I use my Mac, I use iMovie, I drop an image in, and then I create the video, and at the same time, I'll upload it to YouTube, I'll upload it to Facebook separately, so I don't go from YouTube and upload a Facebook, I actually upload the video to Facebook, and then I do the same thing for bomb bombs. Do you shoot the videos? No, not right now, I'm not. I've done it a couple of times on Facebook, but not right now, you know, I just met with a video artist for last week to help kind of take over some of this, and I'm sure we'll end up doing that with him. No, it's fantastic, I mean, what you've proven is to not overcomplicate it, so many people get in their head, and you know, I don't like how I look on video, whatever, which by the way, that's the best advice on that is, hey, that's how you look, yeah. So just get it done, like you said, you know, how many, put it this way, every loan officer listening right now, you probably, if I give you three days to come back to me and you add, and tell me the top 20 questions you get in your career, well, there's 20 videos right there, don't have to be any harder than that, just take that, that, that question, 20 of them, and do a one to three minute video answering the question, which leads me to the point that you have another thing on your blog, which I love, which is the what to expect next, mortgage concierge with Dan Keller, and this is how many videos, four, yeah. Yeah, yeah, series of four videos, you know, and where you're finding that is my home buyer concierge page, so if I have a really structured system in my office, if you are a real student, you're going to refer someone over to me, I'm going to make an initial phone call, and then I'm going to fault that phone call with a video, or excuse me with an email. And in that email, there is going to be a link to this page, and it's literally, it's my mortgageguide Dan.com forward slash apply, and that's my concierge page, and it has an initial video that explains my two step process for getting approved for a home loan, and that's just me going, you know what? I'm so excited you're watching this video, because it means you're getting ready to get free approved for a home loan, and you couldn't be in a better place. I'm going to take a minute real quick to explain what we're going to need you to do next in the process, but then down below this video, what big part of my business is making sure that my clients never, ever are in a position where they don't know what to expect next. So I created a four part video series of what to expect next, now that you've been free approved. What to expect next? Now that your offer has been accepted. What to expect next? Now that blah, blah, blah, blah. So not only is it all right there, during the phases of the process, the mortgage process, my assistant will say, hey, great congratulations on mutual acceptance. Quick reminder Dan has an important message to you, take two to three minutes and watch this video, and by the way, we need this, this, this, this, or hey, you're going to get another email tomorrow with your initial loan disclosures in it. And so anyhow, it's again, it's just more content, it's more Dan in front of them. And what it's done is it's reduced the amount of phone calls into my office. It's reduced a lot of the headaches with my team, having to deal with people doing the wrong thing versus just, this is a follow our instructions. Well, and people love a path to what, you know, and it's all about the customer experience like we talked about before, that's got to be our differential point. And this is, this is value people want to know. And it's like, you know, you mentioned Gary Vaynerchuk and I think of his quote, which is, you know, today, whether it's filling the blank real estate mortgage, you're no longer a real estate agent or a mortgage broker, you're on a brand and a media company and you're back in. He's real estate and mortgage. Yeah. And this is how people engage today. They want to consume content to your point about your millennials, your Amazoners, right? There's, like you said, they'll contact you when they're ready. But until then, they're like trolling the internet, looking at content, making notes, who's saving this page, hey, this guy, Dan, he's got awesome, let's save his page, honey. So when we're ready, right? We're going to be like, hey, remember that Dan guy, yeah, he just popped up on our Facebook feed again, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And it's everything that they need to know right now. There's clarity, there's transparency, depending on the horror stories they've heard from their friends or their co-workers or mom and dad who lost their house in 2007. You know, it's everything's here. And, you know, you just mentioned, you know, we are, if you're not branding who you are and what you do, you're crazy right now. You know, this is, again, this is how I've been able to go from, you know, working at a company as a loan officer to now getting a position as a branch manager over the last year because of my brand. Right. Yeah, it's my brand. It's not, it's like that I helped 200 families a year. It's this brand, the first class, I'm a leader, I'm a leader in the mortgage industry. I lead home buyers, I lead real estate professionals, and now I lead loan officers. And that's my brand. My brand is, I teach, I teach when I lead, I teach when I lead, yeah, and consumers see that. I think they see that the one, nothing makes me happier than when a tech employee, a tech client behind this dude, I love your website, dude, I love your videos. Man, I use, I use mortgage a lot with the software, you know, percent loan options, dude, I love the software. You know, we met with three other lenders or two other lenders and they gave us a paper with, or an L.E. and you gave us a worksheet with four options side by side. Oh, in a video that explains it. In a video, exactly, that mobile, that's mobile friendly, you know, my website, mobile friendly. And so that's big. If you're listening, and, and I, you know, I hope everyone listening has a, as a website either from your company or on your own, that's mobile friendly, babe, you know, that's where most of them works being done today is on a smartphone. Yeah, and by the way, yeah, shout out to mortgage coach, our friend Dave Savage, if there's listeners who don't know what mortgage coach is or aren't using it, number one, check out mortgagecoach.com. I had Dave on, actually, I think last year, we talked about how you leverage mortgage coach to be a modern mortgage originator and that's created some incredible differentiation for you, your clients and your four partners for sure. I'm sure you would say mortgage coach helps you win deals. Big, big, you know, mortgage coach has, has a big part of my business. Here's the thing. If you're listening as a loan officer, Dave Savage recently, and this is totally unscripted plug, recently created a private Facebook group. And if you want to be added that just hit me up and I'll have them add you or I can, I can recommend you be added incredible content. Any interviews twice a week, top producers all over the country and it's just, it's just the great environment to be in. But the mortgage coach software, if you're a loan officer and you're not using that and you're doing this all on your own, literally I can create a loan, you know, if they call the total cost analysis, but I can create a loan worksheet in less than five minutes that is super professional and very, very, very informative. And I'm all about, you know, where I'm at in my career is, I want, I want to want to keep things simple and I want to automate as much as I can. And you know, it's, I've got two, three assistants, but I've got two of them that work on the front end with me to just really enhance that client experience. And a lot of what we do, their, their templates, their email templates, everything is literally copy paste sent. And it's automated and efficient. Right on. And by the way, I'll check with Dave and if he's okay, I can put a link in the show and I'll just do his group for those that are listening. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. Good stuff there. Let's, let's touch briefly on how you're leveraging Facebook, you know, because everybody wants to know, man, how do I just push a button and get leads? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, I see a lot of, I'm connected to a lot of loan wraps and, and realtors on Facebook and I, you know, there's a lot of things. There's so much to learn about it and how to do it right, how to do it wrong. Most of the people are doing it wrong. Someone told them they need to be on social media. And so, they're just jumping on and they're, and they're just, I guess they're just the, they're throwing money, they're throwing, just money is problem versus throwing money at making yourself great at running ads or at copyright. And so what, what I've done is, like I said, I've spent money on learning how to write a better ad, learning how to write, period, learning how to make a better video, a video that sticks. And so I think the biggest mistake I see loan wraps making right now is they're running ads, they're spending money on a message that is not real relevant and they don't have a strategy. And so there's branding strategies, there's certainly branding strategies and then there's conversion strategies. And you know, the one thing that I think I've got dialed in fairly good, which I'll open to it always being better and I have a coach right now helping me on this, but I'm getting people to sign up for our home bar classes, you know, and we're getting over 60% of our signups are coming from our Facebook ad campaign, which is big and we're averaging about 25 to 30 people of class. And though, is that the class, it varies on the title, right? It's either beer or brunch and buy a, yeah, we've got, we've got beers and homebuying.com and then we've got brunch and homebuying.com. So we've got a brunch and homebuying class this Sunday morning in Seattle, we've got 28 people already RSVPed for that. Wow. Is it the same realtors all the time team members, or do you rotate that? Yep. It's a sign. On beers and homebuying and brunch and homebuying is the same realtor partnered with him in 2013 and we've been doing it since. I do two other ones. I do one for VA and I do another one in a town a little bit further north to Seattle and that's a, I call it home buyer, our home buyer, our monthly home buyer Q&A class. And same thing, instead of pub, it's a really great seating in a banquet room and same thing run ads, send out mailers, just pound the pavement and we just teach it's an informal teaching environment where people can ask questions. Obviously we have a, you know, having a agenda, but I start off each one of these and I think it's as huge if you're a load off certain, you're doing homebuying classes. Before I start teaching, I say hey real quickly before we get going, I'm going to open the, open the floor up. But as you guys drove here tonight, as you registered for this class, what's, what's one thing when you leave tonight, you want to walk out of here with, what's one, what's one fear, one concern or one item you want to leave with, because I want to make sure I see you guys as expectations. So if it's not on the agenda, I want to hear it. And right there at the very beginning, we always get five, six, seven people or more, you know, to say, hey, you know, are we heading toward a bubble? Are we, you know, what are, what's going on with the race, they're ham and alleys. And so what I've done is I've created, you know, again, if you're looking for content, you know, look no further, ask, just ask your people when you meet with someone, when you sit down and take a pre-approval, hey, what are two or three things you really want to get out of this meeting? What are two or three things that you're, you're really worried about or concerned about in today's market and right about them, you know, the bubble is a big one. Everyone's talking about, we're heading toward a bubble. So I went out, produced content in a video on the difference between 2006 and 2018, side by side, compared to each one of them, and it's crazy, you know, when I send that out to people, how they instantly look at that and they're like, wow, you're right, we're not heading toward another bubble. I think that may motivate them to get active in the market. Absolutely. Yeah. First is me just winging it. First is the average loan off. You're just winging it. No, no, no, no, you know, Amazon's on fire and no, no, no, no, the economy, Trump's just killing it and the economy, you know, what, you know, rates are going up, that doesn't do anything. Yeah. That doesn't help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, get that all the time. You know, why are rates going up? Mm-hmm. You know, what's going on with rates? Right. You know, so being able to explain that the Fed, you know, we've given so much money in purchasing into our into our economy and they're the Fed slowly pulling out of supporting the economy plus who's got an approved economy. You've got a couple different factors. So by being able to like sketch that out for your clients, you're able to take conversation a little bit deeper with trust. Yeah. You know, that when the rate conversation comes up, hey, why, you know, Bank of America needs four, six, two, five and you're four, seven, five block. You know, you're able to have that conversation around now, okay, well, Bank of America needs 60 days to close your loan, I need 14, well, Bank of America fully underwrite you upfront. You know, if we were able to have those conversations, there's trust centered around that versus just it all being about the rate. Right. Love it. All right. Listen, I know you're busy for the last few minutes we have, I want to get a couple and nuggets on the things you've alluded to, which you're using Facebook and running ads to fill your homebuyer classes. Partly, I'm sure you're also doing other things. But you, you share something with me the other day that I thought was awesome. You're actually doing some targeted Facebook advertising to real estate agents that are using Facebook. And this ties into your overall branding strategy, I believe, like with the video and the content you're doing, you're, you're, are you running ads so your content shows up on specific realtors, pages? Correct. Yeah. So realtors, it's all about branding. There's no conversion message unless I'm hosting a lunch and learn and it just literally, hey, I'm going to be in your area, I'm hosting a lunch and learn on the best marketing practices using video or how to use video marketing in your business. I'm going to have my video hours for present, you know, blah, blah, blah. So that's once a month, it also in that most of the time it's just weekly. So one, I've created a list of 400 realtors in the area that I want to know me, and I did not, not to interrupt you, but when you say you've created a list, does that mean you've pulled production data on them and then you've uploaded that list and like created a look alike or we've, correct, absolutely, the full production on them. And then I, and Facebook ads and I put together a list with their name, email, and yeah, it's actually phone number, just for those, correct, yeah. And then the, the, the, the weekly ads, they're all I'm doing is just sharing the way, the weekly making sense to the market. And you know, a lot of the times it's just sort of cool how this happened. So I'll be sitting around and the next thing I know I get a notification that Mr. Smith Realtor with remax, just like to my page, you know, or is now following, you know, my business page. And so it's working and it works. And so, you know, then what I'll do is down the road, I'll go back to my, my sheet and I'll make a note next to them, so it's just like the page. And then every single Wednesday I call it well Wednesday, every single Wednesday, I personally call 20 wells in the marketplace and a well is, is someone that's closing more than in, in the Seattle area, somebody that's closing more than 30 transactions a year is considered well. And I call, I call, well, well, if I know that I'm cool calling a guy that recently liked my page, no longer a cold call, they're going to know who I am, right? So that's awesome. By the way, do you say 30 transactions, is that total buy, side, and sell, side? Yeah. But when I'm scrubbing them, I'm really looking at buy, they're 30 listings that I'm not going to consider them a well. So if they're 15, 15, or 2010, I'll take that, I'll consider that as a well. But yeah, I want to see buy side. All right, so I don't get, I've never asked this question before if somebody like you, is there a minimum buy side that you, you know, put in the bucket as a, as a target for a realtor? Yeah, you know, so from that list, from a production list, yeah. But you know, I also have conversations with people all the time when I'm calling my realtors or, or realtors in general, I love it when I get pulled, no, I'm like, no, I'm good. I got a lender. Great. Hey, there's someone in your office that I should be calling instead, because what I'm doing is I'm able to help real estate agents increase their business through Facebook marketing and do a video marketing. So, but if you're not interested, actually, you're calling your office that I should be calling. Oh, I love you. I tell you what. Yeah. And, you know, and then my agents that I know I have, you know, hey, is there a young new, young new real estate agent in your office that I need to know that's going to be, you know, the future star, you know, and then those are my favorite because those ones are outhustling. And that's where a couple of my really good agents today, that was the strategy that I used two, three years ago, and right now they're closing 30 to 50 deals a year, and they are. They are great. Yeah. Well, one last nugget, if you can do it in like two minutes, I know you're a master, master of pop buys. So quick tips for the loan officers, you know, they understand the concept of pop buy, haven't done it yet. How do you do that and not be cheesy or intrusive? Yeah. Yeah. So, pop buys, I try to not look like a vendor, you know, like insurance agents will pop buy a tub of licorice with their sticker on top. And so, what I'll do with pop buys is I, one, I try to keep them pretty consistent. So, once a month, once a month, I will do pop buys, and it's getting to the point now where, when I pull up to the real estate office, I'll send a text out to five or six or seven of the agents to, hey, pop and buy in about five minutes, I've got some goodies for you and a couple of my favorite killer, Wayne's people, they come down and see me. And literally by the time I walk in the door, they're in the lobby, or they're out there. And so, it just creates a little bit of attention. And you gotta let them know that I'm interested in meeting some people today. And that's really what I do. Hey, I'm interested in, is there anyone else around here that I need to know today that I can be introduced to? And they're like, yeah, you know, we just brought on this new guy from Century 21, or, hey, you know, yeah, three or four people just started this last week, let me go grab them. You know, my wife owns a little bake shop, so what I'll do once a month is I'll bring her goodies by and do a little co-marketing with my wife. So, it's a double win for us. So, I'm exposing her company and then obviously handing out some really good cookies and, you know, treat. But I'll do that. I think the other thing with Popeyes is I try to stay away from the cheesy gift. The core has a cheesy gift program. I just try to keep it more real. I want people to know who I am and what I do. I love baseball. So, you know, bunch of bags of peanuts, you know, some of our sees things like that. You know, something separates me from, you know, the tub of licorice and, you know, the other maybe cheesy types of stuff, but just consistency. I learned that from Jeremy forciate. He calls it a milk run. Jeremy's actually my coach right now on the core. Just being consistent. If it's won't come on through every other week, just be consistent and then the follow-up. Right. That's the key. Yeah. And then, of course, if you've got some content, you know, videos and content going out, and, you know, maybe Adam, to your list, or I don't know if you would ask for permission, or you would just add them. I always ask for permission before I add them to my e-mail drip, if it's a new agent or a listing agent that we did a deal with, hey, listen, I do a weekly make and sense the market, video segments, about two or three minutes, I have your permission to add you to that. I promise you it's never spammy, and it's information that you can share with your clients, and it's information that you can use. Yeah. So I never get, I can't tell you the last time I had someone unsubscribe. That sounds awesome. Love it, man. Dude, this has been a crash course, and, you know, how to be a modern mortgage originator, electric social media. But the last question I'd ask you though, even though, you know, you're doing the consumer directing, it sounds like you also recognize the importance of, like we said, kind of those two lanes. You got the realtor lane, but you got the consumer directly. You're not, like, letting go of the realtor thing, right, to go all the non-consumer direct. That would be not smart, right? Nope. You got to go after both. You got to use both. The four pegs of my business is realtor direct, excuse me, consumer direct, realtor, database, and I like financial planners, those are the four big pillars of my business. So I think you need to have a good three or four, but, you know, and I love the consumer direct part of it. And a lot of the times you can work for that business out, and a lot of the times you end up being there, they're, they're, they're go to their advisor. Right on. Awesome. Look, man, I know you're busy. Thank you very much for carving out some time today. I'm going to give you back your day, your Friday, hopefully you make out a fantastic rest of the day and the weekend. Appreciate you being here, Sharon, so much, man. Oh, likewise, brother, who was honored to be here, okay? Awesome. And let's, as I said, there'll be links in the show notes for all the stuff Dan mentioned, like mortgage care to some of the other things, links to his website so you can check him out there. Thanks again for tuning in. If you like this episode, as always, shares in love, let us know on a review, iTunes, the GERD, wherever you're at, and we'll see you on the next one, bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio, one more truth in mortgage marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. Hey, guys, what's up, real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top LOs, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. 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