Ep #95: The Art of Selling RENO Loans, Prospecting Agent Teams and Closing 250 Loans per Year

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Bye. The Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing. Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, once again, welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio Truth in Mortgage Marketing. That's what we're trying to bring you every single week on these episodes. And if you are getting some truth, if you're liking the episodes, and you do me a favor, leave a little truth nugget review if you don't mind somewhere where you're listening to this right now, click through, go to the iTunes, go to the Google Play, go to Stitcher, go to our Facebook page, Mortgage Marketing Radio at Facebook, search there, go to the website, the blog, wherever you can. I appreciate you sharing your comments and the value you're getting from the podcast because that just helps us reach more listeners come up better in the search rankings and who doesn't want some search rank and love we all do. So I appreciate you being here as always. If you need to reach out to me personally, you've got my email address, podcast at Mortgage Marketing Radio dot com. I am here for you and I do read those emails, love to connect in some way. So with that said, let's make sure if you haven't yet heard about it, I'd love for you to check out another resource that we make available to you due to incredible demand. We have recently rolled out on a very limited basis, Mortgage Marketing Pro membership. What Mortgage Marketing Pro membership is all about you. You as the loan officer who is looking to adjust and pivot for the market shift that is happening under our feet right now and ways that you can be more successful with real estate agents, right, capture relationships, capture referrals, build that fence around your real estate agents. How do you get noticed and rise above the noise in your local market? If you're looking to get off the treadmill of the income roller coaster and ups and downs every month and want to have systems and sales processes to deliver five star client experiences, you want to do better with rate shoppers and create your conversion ratios. You can't wing it anymore. If you want to build a credible brand, a presence online, a professional presence that you are seeing as trustworthy and authority because people are checking you out online and it's going to only continue to grow. So your video strategy, your social media strategy, your content, right, if you need help in those areas and others, well then I invite you a personal invitation from me to you. That's right. Check out the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership. How do you do it? Mortgagemarketing.pro. Or you click the link in the show notes as well, get more agents and creature sales, get more consumer direct business. We're talking about, all right, so my special guest for this episode, very impressive woman and we need more powerful women being represented in the mortgage industry and my special guest is definitely within that category, not only a powerful woman producer, just a great person too. So Kathy Hadad, where does she hail from? She hails from Fist Pump City, Jersey, baby and she is a superstar, consistently ranked among the top originators in the country, over $100 million, $250 plus units annually that she's doing, manages just a team of two, you'll hear her talk about how she structures her team. We're going to dive into a couple of big areas of focus with Kathy and that is Renault loans, so renovation loans and how she's expanding that and adding that to her business. She does two to three loans a month of Renault loans, so a little conversation about how we deal with the perception of Renault loans from real estate agents and consumers and help add those to your marketing mix. Lots of great opportunities for you to position yourself uniquely with Renault loans. We're also going to talk about focusing on big teams. So you've seen it happen in the real estate industry, right? There's the growth of teams. It's happening in the mortgage industry as well, but look at, I mean face it, if you're going to be, if you're going to want to grow quantum leaps in your business, I mean, you could go one Z2Z realtor, right? And that's definitely part of the mix, but also wouldn't it make sense to start looking at ways that you could get engaged with teams, right? And these are teams that a listing agent is usually at the head of that team and they've got buyers agents underneath them. So Kathy's going to talk about how she does that and does it like in a very organic natural way. One of the ways that she does that is just by being present in the local community of real estate agents. So she's just a great natural networker and you'll hear her talk about how she kind of gets face time with teams. We're also going to talk about how she connects with real estate agents on Facebook and converts those, takes the online offline, converts those to face-to-face meetings. We're going to talk about other social media stuff she's doing with videos and things like that. So really just a nice, you know, kind of a schmorgasbord, if you will, of topics. Why not? We're heading into, how about a cornucopia? A cornucopia of ideas in this session. We're heading into Thanksgiving and that's all I can think of was cornucopia. You know, that weird count looking thing that's full of all of fruits and vegetables and whatever. So that's what you get in this episode is a collection of different nuggets for you to use and apply to your business. And of course, any links we'll put in the show notes to Kathy's Facebook page if you want to follow her and appreciate your comments and love on the podcast anywhere you can. And again, if you want to go check out mortgage marketing pro, you do that by going to mortgagemarketing.pro. So with that said, let's get into this week's episode Kathy, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure. I know you're crazy busy. You are out there on the east coast out in Jersey, right? Yes. 30 Jersey. 30 Jersey. 30 Jersey. 5 pumps for Jersey. So as you know, people heard the formal introduction of you before we got to this section. But I always like to just give your personal take on who's Kathy, how long she been in the business? Why do you still love what you do every day? Sure. Okay. So my name is Kathy Dad with Atlantic Home Loans. I've been with Atlantic Home Loans for 10 to 15 years that I've been in the business. And I started, you know, really young at 19 years old and complete, like, just really didn't have many options. And so they know that let me just give it a try and see what happens. And before you know it, you know, still here 15 years later, you know, originating over 100 million in volume. And still love what I do every single day. Yeah. So on that note, we're real quickly 100 million in volume. I think for my notes last time, that's over 200 units. Is that right? Yeah, like about, you know, 265 to 70 ish. Yeah. That's that's a lot of loans. Congratulations, by the way, that's not easy to do. And especially, I think, well, let me, you know, we'll take care of the business first, but then I want to kind of unpack some of how you generate your business. But give me a quick breakdown of of your team, because that's a lot of units and whenever LLO hears that, as I'm sure you know, they're like, hey, she's must have this team in two years and all that. So sure. Sure. Yeah. I have two basically, like, I really don't want to call them loan office or assistance because they're more than that. They're really just more of like a process or almost. They have to have that kind of background where they basically, you know, help me with running credit, running DU, reviewing documents, sending out needs lists, helping structure the deals. They even can send rate quotes out payment scenarios. So they basically do it all. They're not loan officers. So they don't sell. I'm the only person who sells on the team. So that's really my focus is to get the business. And then also continue the business and keep everyone in the loop and, you know, like as far as like the sales part of the job, that's what I really focused my time on. And then, you know, so that's really about it. Just the two loan officer systems, which again, they're more of like a process or kind of background. So you're right and left hands, aren't they? That's right. Exactly. I couldn't do it without them. Yeah, I know. Are they licensed? Yes. They are. Recently, like about a year ago, I got them licensed just because you know, I wanted them to be able to send out rate quotes and discuss rates and payment options and things like that. So where I am, they do require that. So that was one of the things that they have to do. Got it. How long have they been with you? So let's see. So they've been, well, that has been with me for, I don't know, three years now. And I actually just replaced another person he moved out and has moved on to a different state. And now I'm working with another person who actually used to be a processor at our company and just transitioned him into this role. So he's been with the company for a while, but he's been on my team probably for about, I don't know, a good month. Okay. Wow. Brand new, yeah. Not brand new to the company. So we transitioned really nicely. Exactly. So it's going to say that you're fortunate in that because I'm sure you're well aware of some of the challenges in hiring a team. Oh, yeah. It's the hardest thing because the bad hires weren't that no higher at all, you know? Ooh, I like that. That's good. Bad hires weren't at all. That's a writer downer. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Whenever we talk about team, I wanted to ask you, you know, how you go about selecting your team members. So you have the one individual, the gentleman who's already been with the company. So that's kind of an easy transition, like you said. But the other person, did you say her name was Beth? Yes. Okay. So how did you wind up selecting Beth and is there a process that you went through or you would suggest people go through to, you know, when they're considering bringing on a support person? Yeah. So funny enough, she was also another recruit within the organization. No, we got it easy. Yeah. I know, right? I believe it or not. But, you know, in the past, before Beth, I had another assistant that I actually don't really remember. But I think it was like I went on LinkedIn, I went on Facebook, I went on those, you know, what's that website for the company? My HR, like, put it out there. I had them just put it out to all the different websites. And then I just started getting resumes. And what I look for in a recruit is, you know, there's a lot of different things that mostly just their knowledge experience, their customer service, their willingness to learn. And, you know, also, you know, be excited about a growth opportunity growing with the company and, you know, having that kind of positive attitude, you know, and I feel like that's really what I really focus on. But, because a lot of things you can teach them, but I really look at character too. Character has a lot to do with it. Amen. I like that. Okay. Briefly then, I want to better understand a little bit, go back to what you said about you focus on sales. So if you could maybe, you know, map out for what that process looks like, let's just say, hey, you get a referral from a real estate agent, kind of a high level overview of how you take people through that process and what your team handles versus what you don't handle. Yeah, sure. So let's say a realtor recommends me someone I will call the client, you know, build the report, get the trust, and, you know, introduce myself and kind of get a feel of what it is that they're looking for. And then I basically, you know, walk them through what steps to look out for as far as filling out an application. I do give them the option to go online or take it over the phone with me. Most of the time I try to do it if I can over the phone. If not, I will have one of my team members fill it out with them online. And then once they send their documents over, then at that point, that's when they will connect with me, because I will then go over their options with them, you know, get them, you know, excited about buying and then, you know, let them know the next steps of when they start house hunting. In that process, I'm always keeping the realtor up to date, because that is really very important. Like, down to the point where once I leave them a message, I let the realtor know. Once we connect, I let them know once we pre-approved them, the realtor is on top of it. And then I also constantly prospect. So I will do a lot of prospecting and copy the realtor's on there, which they love that, because, you know, if they're busy schedules, they know that I'm back and they're helping them prospect and staying on top of the transaction, making sure how their house hunting is going. Yeah, what do you mean helping them prospect for homes? Well, like, basically just following up. So for example, if it's been like, you know, I basically do a lot of prospecting, meaning I follow up with the people that we pre-approved on a constant basis, that is a big part of my job is prospecting. So I will, you know, reach out to them, see how their house hunt is going. Oh, okay. You talk about like, yeah, yeah, exactly. Just really staying on top of the people that we pre-approved, making sure that I don't lose touch with them. Now, that's a great, great thing to bring up. Thank you for highlighting that, because I know that's a challenge for some in the, you know, listeners right now, with flow inventory or whatnot and people kind of sitting on the fence, kind of waiting it out. So, and I wrote that down, actually, you, what did you say? You get people excited about buying. That's right. So how do you do that just by staying top of mind, calling, checking in? Yeah, absolutely. And I'll even say, you know, like, you know, how's your hunt going? Oh, I haven't really found anything and everything needs work. And, you know, sometimes we'll look at different options, we'll maybe consider a renovation loan. Did you start looking at a different kind of price point or maybe, you know, you should reconnect with your realtor and see, are you looking to maybe go in a different direction of the, the neighborhood or what you're trying to do? You know, whatever it is, we try to really stay on top of them and keep them motivated and let them know, like, you know, it's still a great time to buy, rates are still low. And, you know, I'll constantly even say, you know, is there something that you're not really sure if you could afford? Why don't I help you with a payment breakdown and give you an update? Maybe you can afford it, but you never know, because most people think, oh, I can never afford this. And then they find out the monthly payment and they're like, oh, it's not that bad. So. You're trying to, like, creatively look and solve a problem. That's what you're doing. Exactly. And, sometimes we'll even say, you know, look at, you know, getting a two-family home, you know, and just write down one, you're just giving them different options that they may or may not have even ever sought out. I like that. How do you manage the follow-up on that, meaning, stand top of it, right? Do you use, like, a calendar alerts and stuff, a CRM, scratch pads? Yep. I have a CRM that doesn't automatically. That's pretty much top of mind for anyone that even filled out an application never says that's their document or someone that we've pre-approved already or someone that's already closed. So that's, like, basically, a CRM that I use. For me, the actual following up, it's anyone that we've basically pre-approved in the last year or so, sometimes even further depending on the kind of response I get from the client. When I first pre-approved them, I try to follow up every week and then it goes to pretty much like every two weeks and then depending on where they are, you know, if they put an offer, I follow up with them again within 24 hours and then, you know, see if their offer was accepted. So I have pretty much like a, it's called a prospect sheet, carnival school where I basically look at these sheets every single day and just keep following up. So it's not necessarily on a calendar, but I do keep track of where and how I left left off with them. So it's a little old school. It's like those lone files we used to keep on that rack on the desk. That's right. I still have that. For me, it works really well. Yeah. Well, it's really cool. It actually reminds me of the doctor thing where the doctor walks in and grabs the clipboard, you know. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. In the old days. Like, let's check here. What's with this patient? All right. Yes. Exactly. No, that's really cool. I like that. And you mentioned CRM. So naturally, everybody's curious what CRM do you use? Um, it's, I mean, I don't, I'm not going to say I recommend it or don't recommend it, but it's. It's what? Vantage. Vantage, yes. Okay. All right. Yes. This isn't an endorsement. It's just saying who you use. That's right. Full disclaimer is available. All right. Very good. Cool. Thank you for mapping that out. You know, I'm talking a lot of L.O.'s and that's one of their frustrations. It's, you know, how do we stand up to people? How do we get them to get active and get into the market? So I think those are some good ideas there. You got to be creative. You're a problem solver, uh, present different options and solutions. I want to focus on in preparing for this, this, this call, there's like two areas that I wanted to focus in on, um, for you. One of them you just mentioned is Renault loans. I'd be curious to know, is that a significant portion of your business or is that going to grow for you? It's been growing a lot, um, because I feel like really getting it out there for realtors and others to be open to it is, it's sometimes challenging. But, um, yeah, I mean, since I started doing them, really put a lot of focus into it. I mean, we've been doing it for a while, but where I've actually put focus where I've been putting it out there, doing seminars, you know, reaching out to lunch and learns with my realtors and, you know, getting it out there. Um, I've probably closed, you know, two to three months. I mean, maybe less depending. I mean, it's hard for me to, I haven't really tracked it to be honest, but a good amount where, you know, we do enough of them to really understand and we hopefully want to continue to do more of those because they're great loans. Yeah, they are. And, um, I noticed you, uh, uh, in terms of you putting it out there, I saw a picture you posted on, on social media, which was a before and after photo for the 203K. I thought that was great. Yeah. So, yeah, how do you deal with the challenge of the perception of those being difficult loans? I guess, particularly, let's take realtors first because, you know, their, their perception is those are difficult. Yeah. So I think, you know, presenting it to them in a way that if you have a buyer that, you know, it's really picky and everything you show them is not going to miss meter, you know, checklist, then that you may want to consider looking at a house that needs work so they can actually customize it to their needs. And now you have a sale and now you've offered them something that most people wouldn't think to offer or know to offer to their clients. And from there, they can basically make a house the way they want it. And then they don't have to worry about the fact that the bathroom is outdated or the kitchen needs to be updated or they need to paint the walls and put in a sear. Whatever it is, build an addition, whatever they are looking to do, it's really just opening up their eyes to those opportunities and making sure that they find a price point, including the right of it is that it's something that they can afford. And now they've basically given the client another option rather than just continuing the same search of looking at a house that, you know, is pretty much moving ready but not to their taste or maybe missing something. And once you have the ability to kind of present your case like that, do you find that some of the realtors then respond and they want to be with you to learn more? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've even had situations where I've let realtors know that, you know, like FHA sometimes repairs need to be done and the seller's not willing to do it. We can convert that into a 203K and get the deal closed. So that's, you know, another thing and, you know, the more you kind of express that to them, they're like, oh, I have a deal that's dying. Let me call Kathy. Should I remember her telling me about the situation that, you know, the septic, there's a problem we can actually get that, you know, keep the deal alive and, you know, if the buyer is willing to do it. And so, yeah, I think once you kind of open the doors and let them, you know, see a different way of looking at things and they can actually get their deal closed, they're, you're going to find a lot more people who will be calling you. Okay. That's great. Now, what about on the consumer side and education process has to happen? Do you take ownership of that? Do you, obviously, it helps to have a realtor kind of tee up that conversation, but any learning lessons regarding consumers and rental loans? Yeah. I mean, I basically say the same thing to them, you know, like you have certain tastes and that's wonderful and this could be an opportunity for you. The monthly payment is still really affordable. It's cheaper than hard money and it's something that, you know, you can definitely look at that can give you instant equities in most cases and you can really customize it to your needs where you can, you know, get into a home that now is designed based on what you would like and then it fits your needs and then you can also have some equity left over, you know, pretty much how I would present it in most cases. Yeah, I like that instant equity. I think some people listening, I mean, I might be assuming here, but I think some might overlook that. Explain that a little bit further. How are you demonstrating to that client two things? One, the instant equity thing, talk about that. But, you know, because the perception, correct way if I'm wrong, is like, that's just going to take longer and this is going to drag out the deal and there's going to be head, you know, I mean, headaches and all that. Yeah. I think if you learn enough about it and that you get the right team in place because where the delays come in is mostly from like the contractors getting their paperwork. So if you get to a point where you can start recommending different contractors within the area that are used to doing these types of ones, that also helps speed up the process and setting expectations is also really important as well. And then also working with HUD consultants that you know are, you know, going to be good because you have different ones that have different levels of, you know, professionalism and what they're capable of and, you know, how quickly they work with you. But as far as the instant equity, you know, it's pretty much that if you purchase a home at below market value and then you basically do certain improvements to the home, now your home will be worth hopefully in some cases, it's what you bought it for plus the renovations and on top of that, now you've increased the value of the property as well. And so in some cases, you know, I've seen situations where, you know, I've had clients that have had 50, 60,000 after all the money they've put into it with after-cost renovations, what their house now improved on in this, in this market. Now that's not always the case. We happen to be in a really frosty market where home prices are going up. So that's also obviously helped for it. But it's really nice to have that where most people when they buy a house, they're buying it right at market costs and they don't have that instant equity besides what they put into the down payment. No, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, people buy an emotion and back it up with the logic. So it's like we said earlier, oftentimes it's, hey, that won the bathroom or this or that one little thing. But it's an educate process. So I think, you know, what you made a great point is you've got to become educated on it. Don't try and, you know, all of a sudden like, hey, I'm the rental person, you know, without doing the homework. Exactly. I mean, anytime I start doing anything, I mean, most of my time I spend not only on sales but also educating like I literally will read guidelines, I make sure I keep up with everything that's going on. The new stuff that's coming out because, you know, knowledge is power. So I always make sure that I need to stay on top of that and be ahead of the next guy. Yeah, exactly. And of course, there's some advanced strategies to such as, you know, if you have access to the MLS, looking at listings that might have been sitting for a while. That might be a red flag that say there might be some issues and things like that. And that's a great opportunity to call those listing agents and say, hey, you know, who just saw that listing and sitting there for a little bit longer than a normal mark. I just kind of curious, you know, like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right. So other big category for us is when you and I last talked in terms of you growing your business because, you know, you've been doing this 15 years or so. As you said, you've got a nice core base of real estate agents who send you business. You mentioned something to me that you're doing. And I don't know if it's how new it is, but you're focusing on big teams in real estate to go after them. Yeah. I mean, I work with, yeah, I work with a lot of individual agents and a lot of agents that are new to the business, but my biggest success that I sound just because of the way these big teams work, they we work very well together in the sense that, you know, they have the same values, the same passion and the same work ethic and expectation. So when you build with the team that, you know, they're doing a lot of volume as well, they usually have those same kinds of characteristics and same, you know, passion, work ethic. So that's where I found where I work really well because the agents see that in me and they're like, you know, I really don't want to work with anyone else because, you know, she's going to take my calls on a weekend. She's going to, you know, get me what I need and if she can't get to it, one of her team members will and she's not going to let a deal fall apart, you know, and she's going to put in the work and make sure that, you know, they do all the necessary steps and give our clients competitive interest rates and give them the service that they deserve and not have to worry about it. And so what's nice about working with big teams is that buyers agents now, you know, are going to work with the main person who is the lifting agent and they're really going to try to push their buyers agents to work with you. So it also kind of helps me be able to build stronger relationships more intimately with these teams versus trying to really focus on, you know, 12 individual agents where I can now work on a team basis and feel like I'm part of a team and part of an environment, a growing environment that's, you know, we're working together and we're kind of like a family unit, which, you know, I really enjoy that because I now I feel like I'm a part of something. Well, so I'd be curious to know then, you know, if you can give an illustration of how you perhaps pursued a team, like how that comes together because I know for a fact in going after teams that it's not necessarily easy. It's helpful if you've got a name and a brand established in your level community, what you do among real estate agents. So I'm sure that's helpful and probably get you to the table a number of times. But for those that maybe, you know, don't have that yet, but recognize the value of a team. And it's, as you said, it's a great way to get access to more volume buyers agents, etc. Any recommendations on, you know, or just personal stories on how you've been successful and getting to work with teams? Yeah, I think a lot of it too is, you know, a lot of people don't want to focus on listing agents. Oh, I'm not going to waste my time with them. And they're, that's where they go wrong because if you go into it with that kind of attitude, you're going to get that kind of, you know, negative attitude, negative result. And so I've kind of taken the opposite effect where everyone focused on buyers agents. I started focusing on listing agents and building those relationships because, you know, it's also personality, right? It's like who you mesh well with. I have been so lucky and blessed that, you know, a lot of the agents that are, that aren't happening to be listing agents, they've also become mostly like my friend. I've really built a relationship with them first. And in some cases, I didn't even ask for business. It was just kind of like, hey, by the way, I have this deal. And, you know, and then it turns into this, you know, hey, now we're working together. And, you know, that's where I found really strongest relationships is that some of these people I go out to dinner with, I tell them I eat the secrets and we're like really good friends, you know what I mean? Let's pause there for a second because some people are listening. And I love that. By the way, I agree. I think there's a mindset problem with a lot of officers who have challenges with real estate agents. You know, you've seen those posts, some sure on social media on the groups and everybody's bag and on realtors and all that. And look at it, I get it, right? There's bad realtors out there. But I mean, there's also good realtors. So, you know, you mentioned dinner and all that stuff. How do you, quote, become friends, right? How do you get that listing agent? Is there, you know, what are you calling the listing agent saying, hey, let's go to dinner? I mean, you know, how do you get to the table first? Well, it's just the environment. I, you know, sometimes I'll be placed in situations where, with that, like it could be in a network of the event or it could be, you know, just some place and where everyone was a little different, you know? And so, but normally what I would do is, you know, I would get to know them and they would get to know me. And it would be more of, you know, me and, and I feel like some people attract to other people. You know, I think the people that I tend to have truth, there's a reason for that. There's some kind of connection there that I feel like we could work well together or we have a lot of similarities. And so, it becomes very natural and it's a really genuine thing, you know, because I feel like a lot of realtors could read through that when people are just, you know, be acting as your friend. Where with me, I really do care about these agents and they are not just realtors and they're not just annoying realtors that, oh my God, can I, they're calling me at 10 o'clock at night tonight, you know, like I don't look at it that way. It's more of, oh my God, they're calling me, let me take this call. Like I'm sure that it's important or in them sure they need me for something. And, you know, you want to help where it doesn't feel forced and it's not like you're feeling like you almost have to do it. You want to do it. Well, so what I heard there is that, you know, you meet at listing agents out and about, you know, at various events or functions, networking, number one, less than take away from that listeners is she's active in the local community amongst real estate agents, you know, I mean, I don't know where you're going board meetings or broker-previewed tour, caravan, all that stuff, holiday networking parties, all that kind of jazz, but I've always said that is like you got to go where the fish are, you know, get in that pond, so you can't succeed with agents hiding behind your computer and just like instant messaging people all day. That's right. Okay, so you're out and about your networking. Do you do, though? I'm curious if you also do any targeting of teams, as we all know, there's certain teams that are kind of visible in the local community where we're at and do you approach it from that, you know, kind of sniper mentality, if you were, we were like, hey, man, here's like three teams I want to go after and you like craft this strategy or is it more just our work? I'm embarrassed to say no. I mean, when I have done that, I've shaled miserably because it didn't come across, you know, it's very business-y, it was very like, hey, you know, how long are you going to work with you? And I don't know why that I haven't gotten success from that very much. It's been more of when I meet someone and it's kind of off the cuff and it's just kind of like, hey, you know, we're working with other real estate agents to other real estate agents because within the company, by doing business, you get business. And so when people start hearing your name and, you know, how did you get this deal done? And who's, you know, oh, you got to work with Kathy. And that's been my biggest success is, you know, word of mouth. Other realtors talking about their experiences with me and that their loyalty to me helps me get other people because they're like, man, this person is so loyal to her. Like, what is she doing that, you know, because a lot of realtors are not loyal. And so I feel like that's what helped me is having other real estate agents talk about their experiences. And I will openly ask them to do that in some cases. Well, I'll say, can you please spread the word, let them, let people know about your experiences. That will be great for me to help grow my business. And when agents are now coming to you at, you know, asking you questions about what you do and how you do, that becomes, you know, just such a great way to grow your business. What do you do then to, and again, you know, you've been at this in your market for a while. So you already haven't established name, but I know you're smarter than that. You don't ever, you know, stop promoting. No, no. What do you do to stay present in top of mind amongst your local realtors, perhaps in a group fashion? Because I know you do the, obviously get your agents one-on-one coffees and all that. But how do you like build the Kathy Hadad brand? So I will do, you know, different functions. It could be, you know, if somebody wants me to host a broker's open, I'll definitely help with that or social media is a huge one for me. Where now I've had this, you know, large amount of audience, which a lot of them happens to be realtors and that's what I target. That's what I really try to friend on my request and things that focus on real estate. And so from there, that presence really grows because I feel like I'm hope that my message that I put out is a good one and now people have wanted to and they want to go to my page because they feel like there's some added value there of information or whatever it is that I'm presenting. And then, you know, different things. Lunch and Learns, we work with a lot of different real estate companies where we have like a marketing sales agreement where we are able to go into their offices and sponsor different events. It could be a lunch and learn. It could be, you know, when they're doing like a pizza night or whatever it is and just continuing to go to different happy hours and whatever I can get my hands on or understand or know that it's out there, I really try to make myself, you know, take that step and get out there and, you know, meet with these agents. Yeah, you can't be a secret loan officer. That's right. So you mentioned social media and friending agents on Facebook. Are you friending people you don't know, agents you don't know? Yeah, absolutely. And take me to, how does that kind of evolve? Well, it kind of goes into people you may know or what I'll do is sometimes I'll look at rosters from different real estate companies or just word of mouth and it's like, oh, you know, I heard this realtor today and, you know, let me have them as a friend and, you know, just to kind of get engaged with them and learn more about them and I may learn more about me and how do you move that to a conversation? So sometimes what ends up happening is, you know, it just becomes a natural kind of thing where I may say a comment that caught their interest. It could be something where I post a lot of situations where deals got turned down and we were able to save the deal and close it in two weeks. So a lot of people get really curious about that. Had you do that? What was it? You know, like, do you have a secret weapon that I don't know about or some, you know, what is it? That usually gets the conversation going and right there, they, they, we've kind of established something to get the line of communication going or it could just be, you know, I comment on their stuff a lot, you know, because I do focus a lot of time on engaging with other agents and really like learning about them and really being happy for them when they post, you know, their kids second birthday or, you know, they went to the Yankees game and they really loved the Yankees and, you know, it's really just building that relationship on the very relationship building type of person. Well, they should have gone to a Red Sox game, but we'll leave that for a minute. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not going to see that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah. And then something else. I'm not. I don't have the audio on. So, I can't see what it says. But what's actually, I actually use a number of here of rental loans. That's really cool. But some of these videos are getting. Let me see here. 877 views. And what I notice is one of these real terms in particular, Christopher Chinn, is actually posting it to a real estate page. I don't know if that's his brokerage page or whatnot. But what that tells me, like, this guy left a comment on your video. Awesome video. Thanks for bringing an incredible value. What this tells me is that goes back to the point about education and being an expert. And providing good quality content, that's what people will share is good quality content. Absolutely. I mean, one other video I did recently was about credit and it was just, you know, to whether they're buying a house or not, everyone wants to know about credit. And so that one, you know, I got almost 1.5 thousand views and, you know, the shares is what I also care about is that, you know, you get a good amount of people sharing your content. It shows that it's really valuable and they want to put it out there and that's what I really try to focus my time on in social media and also letting people get to know me on a personal level too. Right, right. I post things about my family and my experiences and what are you going to do on a daily basis? I'm, I'm curious, when you feel it's, it's appropriate. Let's just follow this Facebook thread for a moment when people are engaging or commenting and stuff like that. Where's that fine line of like, you know, how do you move the online to offline and maybe go for that coffee meeting or whatever? Any suggestions or thoughts when you feel it's right to do that or is it more just like a gut feeling? Yeah, kind of a gut and just kind of feeling like, you know, this person has been liking a lot of my photos or this person is commenting along with it, you know, just, you know, tracking that kind of stuff and then just going for it, you know, asking in a nice way of just let's meet up. And would you ask, really, I'm just, I'd like to get in the detail sometime. Would you ask the, you know, you're already on Facebook, you're exchanging comments and all that stuff. We just hit them with a Facebook message earlier, hey, we should get together and chat sometime versus call. Yeah, sometime I'll do, I'll do both most of the time. Usually I'll send them a message, you know, if they don't respond, I'll call them because a lot of people check their Facebook messages and sometimes it goes to like this other part where they have to sign off on it. And so, I usually go give them a call and just, you know, just say, hey, how you doing? What's going on? Kathy, what's going on? I wanted to, you know, meet up with you and maybe we can have a lunch or something and coffee or talk about, you know, whatever, get to know each other, how can I help you, you know? Is there anybody? Yeah, is there anybody you're pursuing right now that or in the past where, you know, it didn't lead to that, they turned you down or whatever. Oh, yeah, rejection is all the time, you know, like, then I think about it, I'm like, how dare them? I'm just saying, no, it happens, you know, there are agents that don't want to work with me because I work with certain agents, you know, there are agents that, you know, want to have their one person, they don't want that person to work with other people. You know, there's weird things out there, there's weird situations that happen, you know, and it's just par for the course, it's part of sales rejection, just taking rejection and moving on, not dwelling on it, not, you know, trying to, you know, let it diminish my insecurities and make me not confident, I just keep it moving, I just move on to what is working, talking to people that want to talk to me, you know, working with people that want to work with me and really working so hard at maintaining the existing relationships. Lot of loan officers forget about that, they're so focused on getting the next person that they forget about their existing relationships and then that's where they fall really short where I focus on my existing just as much, it's not more, I would say, more than trying to chase the next person. And what do you do specifically to maintain those relationships and build a fence around them and protect them from competitors? You know, having a genuine relationship with them, like going to dinners, going to their team meetings, you know, and helping them reach them out to them, making sure that they will be available for their phone call, always delivering for them and exceeding their expectations at all times. And listen, we're not perfect, I have definitely made mistakes, so it's how you hand all those mistakes sometimes with those agencies, really critical. Like we're not perfect, sometimes, you know, it's not so much the mistake, it's how you address the mistake and going forward and fix it and be a problem solver. You know, and not hide from your mistakes where, you know, people try to focus so much on, you know, ignoring it and hope that it goes away where I, on the type of person, I address it right away, now my stomach is killing me, I'm like sweating in that moment, you know what, I put all that aside and I know that I have to figure this out, I have to be the problem solver and address the situation and make sure it doesn't happen again or, you know, go about that. And that's really how you maintain those relationships, just delivering, right, for those realtors and just not letting them down. They really depend on you to give their clients an extraordinary experience and not them having to worry about what's going on with this loan. And they have so many other things to worry about that with me, they always say, I don't have to worry about the loan and you know what, to me, that's everything, that's peace of mind. Well, that's job number one, right, I mean, if you pull realtors, right, what are they looking for from a loan officer, that's the number one thing, do what you say you're going to do. That's right. 100%. Yeah, and you know, it's funny that I've got to give you a little props here because I'm on your Facebook page, you've got this wonderful testimonial from a realtor where she's like all caps. Thank God for Kathy Hadad. This is really a lesson though. I won't read the whole thing because it's like awesome lengthy, but she says this month alone, you save two transactions from completely imploding. Another bank didn't do their due diligence upfront a week after expected closing. They said they needed additional three items, Kathy stepped in, closed the deal in five days, saved the homeowner 2%, 2% on their interest rate. Yeah. That's enormous. Oh, my God. And then here's her second point of this is she had another transaction. She calls you a beast. I love it. She's like, I called in the big guns, Kathy had out because I know she's a beast and she doesn't miss a beat. Sure enough, what you found out is that the client had child support alimony that were not included in their former pre approval, which saved the day, got the deal done, got the client in the house. Big headline there. Do your homework. Right? Dig in. Oh, and knowing your guidelines and knowing how to structure deals, oh man, when I tell you that my focus is sales and structuring in knowledge, like that's my main focus every single day. Yeah, I mean, there's no loyalty question with that realtor, right? You own her. Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. That's how you build loyalty is like coming through for them and not, you know, not letting them down and listen, we're only going to make mistakes. Like there are a few situations where I dropped the ball and I'm so upset about it, you know, but I was able to get past and figure it out and do what I got to do, you know? All right. That's a great, great thing to maybe touch on briefly drop the ball. Have you had that situation where the agent calls up with their hair on fire and just screaming into the phone? No, I've never had it that bad because I really try to make sure that I'm going, yeah, and not only that, I mean, I have a great team, myself and my team, like we take a lot of pride in our work and we really do our due diligence with best we can. But I've had situations where something did go wrong and luckily, I mean, I've never had a realtor scream at me or I've had customers now, let's talk about customers where they have come back and, you know, just had a bad day and their pressure is on and, you know, we asked them for a bank statement and they're going, I really gave this to you and we're trying to explain to them, it doesn't have the URL, you know, and they are basically screaming at you, like I already packed my back boxes and so, you know, it's really turning that around into a positive situation and then you do the best you can. Sometimes you don't, sometimes you do. Normally, that's the kinds of things that I make sure I'm 100% involved in and I make sure I'm so involved in my transactions. I'm not one of these top producers that take the deal and then forget about it and let my up-bath work on it. No, I'm on top of it. Pipeline review is huge for me, like I'm always on top of that. You know, where every single transaction is, what's going on with this, so whenever this calls me, they know what's going on and so, being that installed helps a lot of the times when you are problem-solving or you're putting out a fire because you know so much about it and then they feel at ease that you're not like just calling them and you're completely not in the loop, that makes them more stressed out, so when you start really talking facts with them and you explain to them, well, this is what happened and this is why, you know, and just give them a different perspective in some cases, they really calm down and a lot of the time, you know, they are just, they're back to being okay, I get it. Sorry about that, I'm just having a really stressful day, you know, this happened, that happened and I say, no problem, I get it, don't worry about it, don't even apologize. How often do you have pipeline review meetings with your team? Every week, every Tuesday is when I have my pipeline, but for the most part, the way I keep up is like, I'm on top of emails and see what's coming in, like what happened here and what happened there and believe it or not, I don't know, you know, yes, exactly or just the processor, they copy me on every email, so you can only imagine what my email looks like, but it's important for me to know, like when they do an update on documents or if there's a problem, like the staff knows what I need to know about, where they need to get me involved, when they can handle it, what things not to handle that I need to, you know, so we really, it's all about just working together as a team and really understanding the way I work, the way they work and what works well for everyone and what's important at the end of the day, which is the customer. Right on. Okay, cool, so here we are, October, end of Q4, basically we're entering, 2018 is coming to a close shortly, crazy how fast that's coming, what are you doing? Any plans you're making for 2019, changes to your business enhancements or, you know, getting rid of things, how are you prepping for the new year? Yeah, so typically this is a very stressful time of year for me because I go back and I reflect on, you know, what the year was like, what I need to do going forward and, you know, it's like, man, January 1st, back to zero, and so I really focus on, you know, where my business coming, I track it every month, every week actually, I get a report of what's been closing. And then every month I do like, every quarter is where I really focus on, when am I getting my business compared to last year, where has there been a decline, where has there been an increase, where can I be doing more, you know, and looking at the different real estate offices that I can be focused on or grow, and, you know, that's basically what I try to focus on. And then, you know, one of the things I'm really focusing on now is just getting ahead of technology. And so the company, our wonderful CEO of Atlantic Home Loans has been really focused for the last two years of really trying to figure out and implement new ways of technology with keeping the human element and keeping loan officers alive. And so that has been really been my focus, just trying to be in on those focus meetings and stay on top of what competitors are doing, what can I be doing better differently because just because what I have is working doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a better way. So I'm always trying to grow that way. Are there any particular strategies you plan on implementing or doubling down on, you know, could be video, could be something else, technology wise? Yeah, so I mean, really just trying to figure out a way to have borrowers, it's really just the technology part of it, like the application process, trying to really find ways for clients to have a really streamlined way of feeling out an application, maybe even running their own credit, uploading their documents, but then it stops there. And then I still have to review the documents because that's where a lot of the big technology companies are going wrong is that it goes right to an underwriter and once an underwriter sees everything, it's too late, your deal is done, like this is where the human element stays there. And so that's kind of where my focus has been trying to just find ways to implement that and just income calculation software, you know, that's also been a big focus because my team they focused so much on calculating income, even though we're still known to be very fast, we turn around pre-approvals in an hour or whatever it is, it still would be nice to have that piece of that technology so that we can also focus on other things, you know, that we need to do to continue to grow my business. Do you have written goals or have a business plan that you actually, you know, kind of map out? Absolutely, I mean, that, you know, believe it or not, I was always the one that was like, oh man, yes, like somebody writing their goals, like I have them in my head, you know. And then I transitioned five years ago, I actually started writing down my goals, but not only writing down my goals, figuring out how to get to that goal, how many leads do I need to get to convert to the closes deal, you know, like I actually started backing into the numbers. And when somebody told me that, that's when I finally, a light bulb here, I was like, wow, you know what, they're right. So that's what I did. And so, you know, I have this whole way of how I back into everything and it tells me how many people do I need to process, how many, you know, realtors do I need to engage or how many deals do I need to close. And I have a pretty good science of my conversion, right? Just because when we run the reports, I see what goes in and then what doesn't quote. And so I keep that in mind and it's a lot of work, you know, and that's where I use my team and myself and making sure that I'm on top of this stuff because it's really critically important. You can't grow without knowing this information. Yeah. I always use the old cliche of like if you're flying from New York to LA, you know, you better have some instruments along the way to, you know, to no one else in your head. Is there a particular resource you use to, you know, build out that plan? Just curious because people, you know, want to know. Not really, it's just mostly just, you know, pulling the reports, you know, and seeing what they are and then really coming down from just experience of how many deals it takes to my conversion, just for my, you know, running those reports to see what is my conversion and mimicking that. And then that's how I kind of figure it out. And, you know, it's funny because everybody wants to grow and do more every single year. And I was also in that camp. But now I'm in a different place. I have two beautiful children and, you know, I reached a hundred million, a hundred and twenty nine. I was so excited and I wanted to get to 150 million and it was like, this is what I'm going to do. And I really, you know, would love to do that. But my goal, they're a little different now. It's more of my growth is, you know, finding balance in my life and doing, you know, at least a hundred millions, maintaining that is so hard. But thank God I've been able to do that for the last past five years and I hope to continue that. And finding different ways of just, you know, making my process always improving my process. And that's really been my goal, mostly, you know, constant and never-ending improvement. Exactly. Love it. Well, speaking of that, I know you're busy and you've got to go. And so I do very much appreciate you sharing your experience and learning lessons with our listeners today. Thank you. I appreciate you having me. Thank you so much. This has been wonderful. I'm great to just kind of talk about your experiences and it just really makes you realize how much you've accomplished and how there's such an amazing source of opportunity out there for everyone. Well, you've accomplished a hell of a lot and for anybody who wants to, you know, kind of follow you online or whatever, what would you say the best place for them to connect with you would be? Yeah, they could go to Facebook. They want to feel free to, you know, Kathy had that. Yeah, the H-A-T-A-T-A-D-D-A-D. All right. Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the show notes. So once again, thank you to you being here and listeners, as always, appreciate you being here if you like this episode. Let us know. Leave us a little love out on the interwebs, wherever you're listening to this podcast. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. For more truth in Mortgage Marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com. 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