From Facebook Ads to AI: A Modern Marketing Masterclass

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Hope you are doing fantastic. Your 2024 is off to a great start in your building, momentum into the new year with your initiatives, your activities, your priorities, mindset, your identity, all of that, all up into one serious committed, unstoppable mortgage professional. That's what I hope you get out of listening to these episodes and tuning in every single week. Thank you for doing so. Before we get into this week's episode, of course, I'm bringing to you another success story from one of our brand new members in my agent classes. Hey, you didn't know what we do at my agent classes is help originators move up the pyramid from the bottom of the pyramid as a solicitor and a vendor to a partner and appear. We help you get more agent engagement in conversation without chasing but attracting agents to want to do business with you and increasing your referrals almost, I dare say, on demand. We do that by leading with education, content and classes in our local market in person or resume over social media and we help you build your personal brand that attracts high quality agents that you choose who you want to work with versus having to chase and put up with annoying little we need head agents. You're in control of your business, you get what to tolerate. Let me tell you about a recent success story. I just this morning we did our Friday mastermind call where every Friday we get together with originators from around the country and we do best practices, right? We share about what's working. We have an agenda for accountability for activities and you will come to these calls. Should you be decided to become a member and you will get inspired, informed, educated and you will become a better mortgage professional across the board in all categories. How do I know? Well, because today one of our brand new members taught his very first class to real estate agents. Spencer, what's up? If you're out there shout out to you Spencer Spencer turns very first class and I think I might have been with us for about five weeks now if I remember, but anyway bottom line is this is it's very first class he gets two referrals and not just crappy garbage referrals actually high quality up to grooved ready to go by and shop referrals. Why? Because he showed up and changed the narrative. He changed the positioning and the perception that most agents have when it comes to their their opinion perception of right the loan officer population at large. Now look at on this morning's mastermind call with our members, we talked about real estate agents. We talked about the necessary evil that some originators feel about real estate agents. We talked about hey, you know what? You probably don't like agents and I get it. Then Travis on our call said, you know what? I don't like agents either and actually he refrains. He said, you know what? Actually, that's not true. In his 23 years of business, he's worked with a lot of agents. He didn't like what he did. He made the shift a couple of years ago to start to change the game and only work with the agents that he had a connection and a synergy with and that were quality agents who worked on his terms and believed in his value proposition. That's when your business becomes fun, enjoyable and you actually look forward to taking those calls. You look forward to those meetings and you are actually motivated to go out there and just crush it. So Spencer, right, literally a month or so in steps steps out. Does his first class gets I forget how many agents 10, 12, 20 agents in the room, whatever what the number doesn't matter. But he got two referrals instantly after the class. No ads been, no costs, no chasing. Everybody came to him. He simply learned a proven process and repeated it. Does this sound like something you'd be interested in learning more about? Here's how you can take action now and book a call with me. Go to mortgagemarketing.pro. Schedule the time on my calendar. We'll have a chat. We'll see if we are right for each other. No harm, no vow. We are not right for everybody. Maybe we're right for you. If you're coachable, if you're open minded, if you're willing to work and follow up plan, go to mortgagemarketing.pro book a call. All right, especially guys, this week bringing back a friend of mine for a number of years now who was originally on episode number 84 with me. And now I'm on episode, what is this three 15 or something like that? So it's been a minute. But today I'm having an amazing conversation with Travis Tom. Who is Travis Tom? You ask, well, first of all, he's just a great guy. But secondly, Travis is among the best, most knowledgeable, most experienced and well informed and successful ad experts when it comes to running paid ads, generating quality leads and building out a process that helps some of the largest brokerages teams and agents in the country successfully run paid ads on meta, meta, of course, being Facebook and Instagram. And with the evolution of AI, now being incorporated into ads and strategies and automation, Travis is, of course, showing up now with some amazing knowledge and expertise on the current state of that and different ways in which you can use AI to integrate zero overall advertising strategy and also what's coming. Now what's great about this conversation is, hey, if you've ever been curious about what really works with running ads, paid traffic right on Facebook, Instagram, etc. This is a conversation for you to listen to because I'm looking down at my page here of show notes. And I've got an entire page where we talk about dynamic ad creative. We're talking about the top ads to run, a list of homes to ads to run, seller guide ads, the Facebook lead ad forms versus directing people to landing pages. We definitely have a pretty deep chat about AI and the impact to AI and the overall kind of personal brand strategy. We talk about Facebook's dynamic ad creative and just really a wonderful, right crash course in everything about running ads on meta and some best practices for you to make sure you get in line and start implementing if you're ever going to consider running ads or if you're already are doing them, these will be some great take a home lessons for you to apply in your business. And there's going to be links in the show notes to everything we talk about, particularly Travis's new educational platform called elevated REM training.com. Link it up in the show notes elevated REM training.com. And that's where Travis is building this community where he's going to continue his knowledge and education to help people master, right, Facebook marketing and learn how to leverage AI to win more clients and close more homes. I suggest you check it out. I'm going to be in there as well. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Travis, welcome back to the show. Jeff, hey, thanks so much for having me excited to be here. Hey, man, it's been a minute, right? I was doing some research leading up to this session. And you are on episode number 84. And now do a quick look here just to I'm on episode 312. So it's been a minute. That is congrats. There's a lot that's a lot more episodes. Yeah. So you before we get into the content, why don't you explain for the listeners who are you and what do you do? Absolutely. I'm Travis Tom. I'm a Facebook marketing strategist and AI marketing strategist as well. I run ad campaigns all over the world for a lot of the top teams, some of the the national franchises all across North America for some of the bigger teams and work directly with Facebook. I have advised Facebook on their Facebook advisory board, but you can sultan to them, manage millions of dollars and different types of ad campaigns across Facebook and Instagram underneath the the meta ecosystem and then build a software that does some powerful stuff as well and enjoy coaching and training agents on really how to best leverage different types of marketing tools to the biggest bang for their buck. Yeah, awesome. And I've been in your world for as you know, since since you know, we talked about that podcast for a number of years. And when it comes to and you know, you know, me, this is no smoke. There's no sponsorship sponsorship here, but I have to say, especially when I was really double clicking on my Facebook ad knowledge, like you're on that short list specifically because, you know, you're obviously well immersed in real estate having been in real estate brokerage and sales, right? Or years ago. So you you you intimately understand the frame of real estate when it comes to Facebook ads. And I think that's why so many that like top users, top brokers and stuff call on you. So if that's okay, I will give you that accolade. Absolutely. I appreciate you know, I grew up in real estate as you mentioned. And so for me, it was, you know, you typically work with those that have been in that position before where they've had that best experience ups and downs and you know, the failures and wins. And for me, it was this understanding of how to actually apply Facebook advertising and AI marketing to real estate because I really would have loved to have someone like me as a mentor or someone just watched from afar to be able to tap into and say, all right, you know, I'm having issues with my current real estate brokerage, my team, whatever it is and marketing and how do I what tools do I use for the best kind of regeneration and what should I do for for this to save money and costs. And so I I'd like to come across as the future version of myself mentoring myself version of yourself. Yeah, I'll go back in time and get myself a little way up if I can. Yeah, all right. That's that's good. Let's let's pick up where, you know, the conversation you and I kind of message each other a week ago or whatever that was. There's a lot of changes. Let's let's start there. Since you were last on the show, right? That's a couple hundredish episodes ago. That's at least three maybe four years ago. What do you see as the big headlines? That's changed when it comes to advertising on Facebook and Instagram, for example. There's a few things. You know, the past few years, there's been some sweeping changes inside of of meta where they have really changed the algorithm to focus on ad creative and specifically in terms of targeting where they have machine learning and artificial intelligence they've been developing for years and years and years before open AI and chat GPT came out. Facebook, you know, has had a swath of AI engineers really focused on we've got a massive amount of data. How do we leverage it? And with the post iOS 14 of, you know, removing certain types of access to data that they can they can get access to, they really have to work with the data that they currently have and with that, they've been able to say, hey, targeting, we're going to remove targeting interests and change the, well, now remove all of it, remove it, you know, they've removed almost 10,000 different targeting interests over the past that say six years where to the point where it's ineffective to actually use targeting interest to some extent as just one method in a campaign, right? So for example, if you're going to kind of campaign, you don't have one image, right? In one photo with one piece of ad creative and then one targeting ad set where you say I'm going to target people that are interested in zillover.com and on the mortgage calculators and then just better run. That is set up for disaster. So Facebook has really deployed different tools like dynamic creative, which is allowing you to be able to have a campaign that has 10 different images or 10 different video is getting different pieces of ad in your campaign and then five different pieces of ad copy, five different headlines, five different call actions. And that optimizes where it can just basically have a mashup of these different pieces of ad creative and ad copy that optimizes itself to say which one of these is getting the most engagement in the most clicks and most leads for this, this audience. And then that's allowing you to be able to have a targeting setup where you might have broad target or open target where there may not be any actual interest to what we call microtarying typed in there. It's just geolocation, 15 mile radius as the default, right? Especially at housing category and letting it run and you then create maybe another secondary ad set where you have maybe a sprinkle of micro interests to be able to then let the algorithm and Facebook's machine learning say hey we're going to make decisions for you. We're going to shift the budget around for you to the different placements based on where we see the most amount of people are on the platform and placements. And then using all of these images, the more data we have, the better decisions we can make on who to serve the ad to. So that's one of the biggest changes is that it's really people get caught up in what's the best targeting things like that. Well your ad created is creating the actual targeting that's really leading it. So the things that people really need to focus and be concerned about is strategy and ad creative. All right, so I'm glad we're breaking this up because I wanted to go deeper on ad creative. But before we do, let's take the first step, which is strategy. You've worked with a lot of real estate agents, mortgage professionals, right? What would be your quickia course correction? I was going to ask you what do you see that they do wrong? But perhaps it's better to see what are the best practices when it comes to strategy? Best practices is really understanding what is the absolute goal in mind for your perspective buyer, seller, or client, whatever it is. What is the highest intent that they want? The closest step that they need to be able to get in. And so the regional intent of thought, right? We're just promoting. This is interesting. You didn't say what's most important for the person running the ad for the actual person. That sounds completely the opposite of the most of the people I talk to about running ads, right? Their intention is they want to get a lead, they want to make a sale, right? So we need to change that mindset. We need to change the mindset because if we look at it through that lens, then it's definitely one sided where we're creating campaigns that we believe are just, well, it's, you mean another thing that just one sided, but slightly delusional to where if we're creating something, we think is going to work just because we're designing it for, what we believe is truly going to serve us in our best interests. When if we think about who's a consumer and what are their needs and what do they want and how are we solving that, right? How are we filling up that opportunity, whatever questions they have? That is going to create the win for us. So most people, right? The key things from a psychological level, in a very property-centric type of campaign where they want to see the properties. They want to see photos, right? First, and then pricing and details, kind of the hierarchy of information that they want to digest. So a lot of people, I think, get too wrapped up and, well, they've got a very strategic, big, funnel campaign that's multiple steps. And I used to build those really large campaigns back in the day, and those used to work. But now it's really being able to, how do we just shorten the opportunity to give them something? So, for instance, a list of homes, right? That's probably one of the easiest campaigns to get the deal works. And it still works. And what the reason why it works really well is people, the CNAD that says, you know, see all the homes price for sale under $800,000 and the North Valley, right? Click here to see all the photos and details today. And it's a list of beautiful homes in that specific area that they probably want to take a look and click on it, fill that form, give them information, if they end up on a property search IDX and they start to kind of go through. It's an instant gratification, it's an instant win, where you get the leads information. And that person is now then on your website and you delivered what you promised, right? There's no games, there's no waiting, it's that dopamine level hit and they're looking at everything and they're, you know, checking out properties. I don't think that kind of ad campaign will really ever go away because there's always a roller coaster ups and downs of inventory, right? And so if you give people the opportunity to look at some properties that they may not have seen before, you know, in a lot of people, I've talked to people that say, well, you know, if they want to know and see properties of going on sale or whatever they call, not everyone is taking that initiative and step unless you align them of the opportunity. So giving them something that they want, that's the first thing. That's kind of like a no games, you know, type of, we're not building any type of high things that get to jump through. That's right. A lot of leads that come through there. Second from that, there's a lot of confusion market currently for sellers, right? I buy our programs, you know, interest rates, bridge loans, different, you know, what's going on with today's market. What can I do? What can I get? It's not as black and white as it used to be several years ago. So offering a seller guide that is really talking to the mind-set psychology of most sellers, which is they're a little overwhelmed with with with everything they've heard in the news and they're overwhelmed with, you know, what do they need to do and how do I get the best price and where am I going to find a home? So writing ad copy that focuses on, are you overwhelmed, but I thought of selling your home and giving them a guide that really breaks down, you know, one of the key things they need to do. So that right there, seller guides are working really well for subtle beat generation, right? And bringing those folks in the... Let me interrupt for a second if you don't mind. A couple of questions in here, because as you're talking, I'm pulling up some Facebook ads and I'm thinking about questions. Okay, so the seller guides. Interestingly enough, that's also one of those old these book goodies has been around a long, long time, right? I'm curious. Maybe this is just my cynicism as a consumer having been burnt many times with opting into leads, lead ads. Apparently, there's still people that are willing to opt in, but with a seller guide, because it isn't part of the narrative that the people that are what, you know, clicking on that ad or whatever are saying them to themselves, I know this is going to go into a funnel, like, you know, I'm going to get a bunch of, right? I mean, how do you deal with that? Less than you think, so it used to be where, you know, home value ads, which you're back on the day, almost 10 years ago, I had a full home valuation landing page company where we, you know, we built thousands, thousands of those. And I was part of the guilty party that would saturate the market and basically destroyed the values of home value ads. Because there was too many, right? And the consumer caught on real quick and then they started to really kind of fail because people would click on a home valuation ad, go to the landing page. They go, I don't want to fill that out. And then they leave. I'll just go to Zillow to look at the value anyways. Right. Just go to Zillow. I'll go somewhere else. I don't want to go to these steps. And that information became widely available through different various sources and really only solved kind of one itch, one curiosity. Fear in pain is a whole different perspective, right? Fear in pain and one of the biggest drivers of creating engagement and getting people to take action. And so without being manipulative, but still being able to leverage that as a resource, you need to be able to tap into people's fear in pain, which is where their pain points currently. And then identifying that. And so for sellers, it can be done in multiple different ways. You know, those other guides and there's multiple different types of selling guides you can create. But for a lot of them that are opting in for that, you really want to give them enough valuable information to where you are the educational resource. It's not salesy. And it's something that gives them peace of mind and trust. And the ones that are opting in are typically much higher intent because they know that they're opting into something. Yeah, they're willing to do it anyways. And they're willing to do it, they're willing to do it anyways. And I feel like there's been a lot of misinformation and just a lot of bad information where you also have 73% of homeowners said that they would list their home with an agent that uses video. But you have only 15% of real estate agents in the United States actually doing and creating videos. You've got 85% of those that are not creating video that are still doing transactions. And they got 15% that are, you know, this 15% how many of them are actually talking directly to the consumer and not creating videos on look what I just sold. If you're going to let's take that example of seller guides, you know, for example, that putting a video with that ad would help. Putting a video with that ad and then talking about what that does is that one instantly lets them know, hey, I am a real estate agent. I'm in this business, right? Or I'm alone in office or whatever it is. You're identifying yourself and you're already disqualifying that prospect before they can qualify you because you're basically putting you out there right in front, right? No big switch type of, of, you know, kind of campaign. You're showing, you know, in this guy that I wrote, you're going to learn these top five things, right? So there's I think being more front and center and letting people know who's behind those ads is definitely going to be a big. So what you're saying is like what I envision I've seen in the past is you've got these unbranded seller guides, right? With a logo, but there's no agent. It's like a generic name or whatever. And there's no association to a real human. Right. Right. Okay. In what we're seeing, you know, there's a lot of a lot of faceless brands out there. Right. And one of my big predictions for 2024 and moving forward is really the, you know, defining personal brands where you have, if you look at the tick tock vacation of the world, you mean, tick tock definitely brought this home where, you know, on Instagram, you have, you had influencers, like people that had, you know, 50,000, 100,000 50 people, you know, followers. And that really is kind of eroded and is going away very, very quickly. And then while I'm tick tock, you saw the rise of content creators and content creators being someone that doesn't maybe have, maybe they have got, you know, 27 people that follow them, right? Or maybe only, you know, 200 people that follow them. And then they're really concerned about followers. They're focused on, hey, I create content and I create up my phone and I'm really good at editing and I'm authentic and I know how to start with a good hook and I can pull people in and I create content for other companies, right? Not an influencer, but a content creator that can actually create content for the companies and those companies that use that content that video content as advertising. And so we're going to see more of that's more acceptable. And a lot of people are, you know, basically that has a higher level of trust association with it versus an influencer. So if you look at what's going to start to happen with a lot of these different companies, not just real estate, but all over is they're training some of their employees and staff on how to get on camera and how to be a content creator, the create content for the company, not necessarily being the voice in brand or one voice in brand as leadership, but having it be multiple different voices that are actually kind of creators. So in the real estate world, that is helping to create opportunities where these faceless teams or companies, those companies that I've, you know, that clients and companies auctioned in my local market area, I have no idea who the team leader is, who the main agent is, I just see their signs and it's, you know, I've seen the name again and again, but I never see them on social, right? I never see them. So it's a little bit of a faceless brand, but the ones that I do recognize that I connect with and engage with are on social media creating content and then I see their signs and I refer people to them and it's a, it's much more impactful. We have doing business and it really amplifies their presence and omnipresence. So short form video content creation, four brands, right, four teams and it could be the agent, the team leader, it could be so when they hire out, there's actively creating content for that brand. Ideally, it's going to be the specific person, right? It's getting the camera and being like, that's the question. That's the question I wanted to get to was how important is to have an actual face of a human being there, right? I, you know, with the, I mean, this is, this all kind of gets kind of blurry with the rise of artificial intelligence because you're going to have an enormous amount of content being pushed out, some of which is just kind of fluff and garbage from the text, generative, you know, blog and emails, it's kind of just, we already have enough of that in real estate, where it's just a lot of noise. Exactly, noise. And then those that actually show up on video and provide educational value and or thought leadership and demystifying everything, those are the ones that are going to rise at the top. But alongside that is AI video creation, where, you know, and I did this a couple of months back where I created an AI avatar myself, talking about Einstein's theory of relativity and which I know nothing about. They've even read it, but, you know, respect the guy. I don't have to. I don't have to. And it was just, it was this background, it was, it was just like me and, and I mean, it was me and people and I posted it, people could not tell. Yeah, it was me. What did you use to create that? Because some of the, some of them still look a little, you know? Yeah, it's right. It's called Hagen, H-E-Y-G-E-N, H-E-N. And H-E-N allows you to upload a two minute video of yourself. And it had, it takes all the inflections and the a's and a's and a's and hand movements, you know, like I do. And it learns very quickly from that. And with about five minutes, you can upload a script and then choose your avatar and it will then build out a video of you doing that. So there's, there's pros and cons in this verse that gets blurry is that you can have content creation of you. And if you wanted to then say, you know, because we're all busy, you know, we're all of crazy lives. We want to be able to actually say, how can I get and maximize the most out of artificial intelligence without a large amount of energy output and having it being a time, you know, suck, right? And so you can create, you know, one video avatar, go in the chat GPT and say, you know, create 30 engaging real estate topics for me to create videos about boom, create those videos. All right, now give me a 60 second video script about each specific topic, drop those in, take those copy those, put those into Hagen for your avatar, have a publish and now you have that, you know, turn into vertical format and then use something like repurposed.io where it's connected to your TikTok or Instagram, post it once and then it shows up on YouTube shorts and reels and everywhere else. And now you've got this machine that is creating content where you created one video, but you're just creating scripts and it's reading up for you. That's one opportunity and suggestion. I do, I don't think that's a full replacement though. It's something that you also need to be creating different real authentic videos where you show up on camera and actually, you know, preserve yourself. Explain what you mean when you say you don't think it's a forward placement. It's not something that I would suggest you fully just only do that. I think what I understood you to say about that is like my first engagement with you hopefully is something of actual real human, right, which is less produced. Maybe it's not the greatest to the TikTok effect, right? And as a matter of fact, I don't know if you was it you who posted, I can't remember somebody posted that stat about the most viewed short videos were the least produced. It wasn't about the music background. It wasn't about the latest trending, right? It was like the most authentic, really. Yes, yeah. And I think there's been there's been this, the pinch on the swung greatly because you have Instagram where it was these, you know, polished. Yes, super polished, you know, model on a beach and Tahiti, you're right, you're talking about, you know, the top five things I love about traveling through Tahiti. And so they like, you know, I'm never going to go to heat him too busy. You know, I've got two little girls. Watching it because it looks amazing. Right. I've got a family we're doing their thing we're traveling, but you know, I'm not going to do extreme showing me 30 hours of Tahiti. So that, that is unrealistic and unattainable for, you know, the vast majority of people on there, it might be some mind-floss, but that's not so many. Probably going to take advice from. And I think we saw a lot of that sort of happened in real estate where there was like really super polished and you got these, you know, high production value, yeah. High production value, you know, and, you know, let's walk through this, you know, $14 million dollar, you know, home in Malibu, where, you know, that's great. It is a talk to your everyday transaction. Right. And that's, you know, it's some beautiful content, but is it really going to, it maybe it might pull one, you know, $8 million or $4 million dollar buyer, you know, a couple of months later. But the vast majority of it is it's really not authentic. And so if we look at where then things have gone, which is, you know, low five video, which has a higher level of trust, and there's been lots of research and documentation on that. So we'll find the vertical format. And typically starting off with some sort of hook doesn't always have to be, but the first three to five seconds are the most engaging, right. You really want to pull people in. So there's, you know, there's a lot of video content that can be done where you can build a personal brand just from a handful of videos that you would then take. And this is what I call the perfect funnel type of situation, which is one of the brand awareness video that you're running to your local market area. And you're racking up, you know, 30,000, 80,000 views right over a couple months. And then you're going to retarget them with a series of other videos you have. Right. And really it's, that's part of demand generation. Is that that top of funnel you consider? I would consider that that top of funnel demand generation where demand generation is really more of a you're building demand based on education value, right. And being omnipresent. And then from there we targeting them with the sequence of more video where you continue to stay in front of and now it's just your, you know, you are top of their mind. You're kind of ingrained and some of the content. And then from there, running same kind of similar video content to your spare influence and staying in front of them, which a lot of people, I think, really neglects on social level. They may go heavy on print or Popeyes or some of those things. So the biggest success as you can find is really just staying evergreen present in front of your spare influence and database on social media. All right. Let me, let me break this down with my layman's understanding comparatively to you in terms of what this might look like in Facebook. So let's just call it top of funnel demand. And that's the branding videos, right, which is maybe stories, success stories. Hey, here's why I love real estate. If I'm, if is that tracking correctly so far, maybe some, you know, showcasing listings, is that all relevant? Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a showcase in the middle. There's so many different topics I would dive dive into, but you're demystifying, you know, like today's market challenge is, right? Right. You that and, you know, all of the common, if you look at the common questions, you like a Google search or go to SEM rush, like a research word, which is things like, what, you know, what does X salary afford me for home? What can I, what can I afford or how much damn people do I need? And so if you can have a, you know, your MLS, probably search as a green screen in your background and those green screen tools and your phone, right? You know, like, you know, hey, let's break down, you know, or here's what you can buy for $800,000 in, no, right? So those videos work. You know, those, right? Or how much do you actually, you know, for a loan officer, how much do you need to make to be able to, you know, afford a half-million-dollar home? Let's break it down, you know, this, this, this, this, you know, so there's that type of ungated, demystifying that kind of content versus where those could typically be a lead generation app, right? What's, you know, you would, you would have as like a, you know, faceless brand and, you know, type of ad, how much can I afford to get this? Which still can work, but you're building a personal brand up front and then teaching and educating and, and building authority with unneeded type of content where you're actually stating like this is how, this is what you need to make to buy this, you know, this, this home, you know, doing all in like a one-minute, you know, one-minute thirty-second kind of video, or here's all the homes you can buy for X amount of X in X area, that's going definitely to attract and engage a lot more conversations and you can still do both lead generation and that, but those positions you in a way where it really builds a lot more brand authority and personal brand. So I want to take this through these steps and kind of put a, put a bow on it for everybody listening who want to, you know, be completion oriented. So we've gone, I think, for the first two stages, right? Was the branding video and then the more video, multiple video steps or sequences. So I'm just, I'm visualizing this is happening in meta, right? Facebook or Instagram, somewhere where these ads. And then you mentioned a sphere of influence. Would sphere of influence in terms of those ads videos content be achieved through like custom audiences, for example? Yes. Okay. So we take our past client database or whatever it is and some, some people have some type of connection or awareness to us already, which is also people have already watched our videos on Facebook retargeting them as well. All right. All right. So let me, and I'm just like, it's impossible to pack everything into one session, but if you were to give that as a blueprint to somebody and that's the sequencer series of videos without getting into frequency or things like that. And then this might not be a fair question to you. What would you say? Look, for you to really get an ROI on this or return on ads, Ben, what do you, what do you typically see the monthly investment should be from an ad spend standpoint on that? Typically around $500 a month, you know, with a brand awareness video campaigns, you don't really need to spend a lot to get in front of a lot of people. I would say $7 to $10 a day baseline, brand awareness objective, where it's focused on reach. It's not really going to get any clicks. It's not going to get any comments, but it's going to just saturate that audience. It's going to get in front of a ton of people and have a high frequency. You're just going to even show it the video again and again to them. That's going to be more like $7 to $10 a day where within a 60 day time frame, you'll probably reach 70 to 80,000 people. Who knows? It varies, obviously, based on it varies, but from from a, you know, historical data like on a national's, you know, average, what if I'm in frigging Fargo, North Dakota? Am I going to reach us? You know, you didn't need to increase the radius. You said you had to get in front of more people, but on an average scale, you know, $7 to $10 a day brand awareness. We'll get through a lot of people. Then from a retargeting sequence standpoint, you can still, you know, do I would say minimum of around $5 to $1 a day, also using either engagement, subjective or brand awareness, where you have videos that are getting it from a smart custom audience like your spirit of influence and people have been engaged with your past videos and the past leagues. What's the objective on retargeting? So you can use any of the objectives, but from a video perspective, to use video as retargeting to show people the true people as a custom audience or people that watched your previous videos, the biggest, you know, ones are going to be either brand awareness, engagement, or traffic. Now, traffic is engineered to where it's going to click on the ad and go to your website. It's going to get clicks, but with most video type of campaigns, your sole objective really is your goals. You want people to see it, want them to see it multiple times, and then you want them to actually watch it, not to see it, but watch it. So it's going to be brand awareness engagement because those are more engineered and the algorithm and the ad auction to define that role. So listeners, you just got a free clinic in how to run a Facebook ad campaign strategy and budget ad spend and all that. So thank you. And if, by the way, in a moment, well, actually right now, so before we run out of time, I want to make sure people who want to connect with you more, you've got this pretty cool training platform education. And if you've listened by now, you get a sense of Travis knows what he's talking about. Go ahead and give us that URL again. So people are listening who want to follow you and check out more. What is that again? Absolutely. It's elevated REM training.com. And so yeah, elevated REM training.com. And that's a AI marketing coaching, Facebook, Instagram marketing training. We got support and videos. And we, you know, show you how to manage this collaboration. And as I tell people often, I'm not getting anything to think for this other than I bring people to these calls that I think, you know, are doing quality work and have the right heart, if you will, not to sound cheesy, but, you know, that are really in it for the right reasons. So we'll put links in the show note to that elevated REM training.com. Before we run out of time, I'm going to go a little bit rapid fire if that's okay. All right. So, and these are just some notes I've written down since we were to start talking. I'm trying to think, how should I do this moving forward? What is the thing Gary Vee does? Does he do underrated, overrated? Okay, so let's try that. CMA ads underrated or overrated? I would say, I would say overrated. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I feel like they, you just, you get a lot of of clicks with very little conversion rate on them. I feel like there's a different type of funnel strategy you can leverage. For instance, the list of homes can kind of add campaign where, well, the CMA ones are also, I think that's you're talking to people that are in the midst of trying to figure out a valuation right before they list their house, but they probably have already talked to a rilter and met with people. So there's a high level competition to deal with right then there. What does back to my funnel question I can just go to Zellow, man. I don't need that up to be fun. Right. Well, I mean, then there's there's opportunity cast doubt, right? So that might be a part of it. But if you fish upstream, where you're running an ad for a list of homes, which is, which is thought of as primarily a buyer regeneration type of ad, you have sellers that are homeowners, whether they're, they're become sellers, that are homeowners first, sorry, they're homeowners that want to sell, but they're buyers first seller seconds with that kind of kind of mindset, right? They want to pin down as a homeowner, where am I going to move to? Is that the right school district? We're going to get ready to sell our home in the next three months here. I want to identify price ranges who we competing with. But oh, I saw a home list of homes on Facebook. I'm going to click on that and look at the homes because we also were buyers first, and then we're going to sell our home second. So when they go through that Facebook lead ad of a list of homes, one of the key questions I always ask, which is, do you currently own a home yes or no? And about 35% of all the leads that come through say yes, they want a home. And so if we didn't ask that question, we wouldn't be able to identify that we have 35% of these leads are actually possible sellers, right? They're looking to buy home and then sell. So I think that's a way to be able to have lower competition fish upstream because as we know, statistically, around 80% of homeowners work with the first agent they have a conversation with. So the further downstream you can get or further, sorry, upstream you can get to where you can actually get in front of people earlier on. And then we target them with content and building that level of authority in front of them increases the odds of having a warmer conversation, being the first one out of the conversation, either intentionally, right, directly or them just listening to you and then making the decision that they're going to hire you based on the content you put out. Okay. These I'm discovering because this is completely off the cuff. I'm taking okay, this isn't rapid fire at all because it requires a contextual in-depth answer, which I'm going to ask this one as well. You've seen the scenario where I'm an L.O. Now listeners, listen up. I'm an L.O. I'm going to run ads on behalf of or with real estate agents. And when they opt in, they're going to come to me first and I'm going to pre-qual them. Do you have any comments or opinions on that from the standpoint of the buyer's journey or the opt in, you know, the prospects journey of like, is that a good user experience? Or do they just want to get to the thing like without talking to the L.O.? Okay, back up a second. So the strategy is that a lead comes in and it goes to you as the L.O. Let's say you're running any one of these ads, like it's maybe a house ad or it could be a list of homes for sale. And the first step in the journey, well, once they get the guy to whatever, but the loan officer is contacting before the agent. I think that's it's the past two years that's become definitely a more leading strategy where we've seen with all of our clients, which is that they want to own the conversation and have a little bit more of a relationship with either the agent they're working with or just be able to own the lead source and say, hey, this is the end. We're turning the funnel upside down. That's acceptable. It's perfectly acceptable. I think it provides some comfort to the prospect as well because you're providing them and saying, hey, my soul goal here is to really arm you with the resources that you need in the qualified decisions as you move in the next phase of your real statement. Yeah, so there's got to be a good handoff, a good script or framing. If the ad didn't reference at all or the communication didn't reference, like you're going to be talking to. So because you know how it is, people opt in and they're like, whoa, who the hell are you? Why am I getting this? You got to structure that properly, right? You do. I mean, there's and there's no absolute perfect method with it because you know, humans are just so radically different from person to person. And so there's like a disqualification almost from if someone is really hard to get through the system and they resist, resist, resist, is that really someone that you want to spend your time working with to begin with. I mean, just we all recognize the red flags. You be another, you know, another, another real quick and then I might have one more. I know this is a hot debate. Facebook lead ad forms, right? If I'm saying that correctly, or Instagram same thing versus driving people to a landing page. Yes, is it situational or what do you say? This is this is where I see a big change. One of my predictions for 2024, moving forward is landing pages will will start to take a back seat. And there's a couple of reasons why. One, landing pages, typically, so any time you're sitting trapped in a couple of Facebook and Instagram, they look for a 2070 unique key if I identify items on that website or landing page to verify is this something that meets every all of our standards of good user experience for users in on meta. Is it fast loading? Is it multi optimized? Does it have relevant images? And there's a continuity there from the ad copy translating over to what they're promising. Is there a pop-up video? So it looks for all those different things and it will actually go into the quality control of the ad manager and say, hey, let the ad auction know that this is not a good user experience because it doesn't have so many these things. So then it punishes you in the ad auction, the ad is run as well and it gets kind of sluggish and basically falls short of your goal. But the lead ad forms are fast, quick, instantaneous and they're basically really simplified small landing pages optimized for, you know, high conversion to get people in and going through. I don't think that we're going to see a complete dismantling of landing pages. I think what we're going to see is we're going to see more short form, mobile landing pages that are concise and clean and straight to the point with more conversational kind of language that is providing resources really quickly. Now, landing pages like sales pages, I think those still really exist. Websites are going to need to exist because you're going to need to have something that provides a lot more information. So for instance, if there's someone needs to know about a specific loan program, you really got to spell it out and break it down and educate them on what it is. I mean, those are going to need to exist. But the initial opt-in to get information for something, those the days of like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, you know, through that, people just don't have the time. The average person sees 5,000 out of the day on an offline and, you know, there's, there's in scrolling rapidly, we're seeing more and more. So there's a lot of sensory overload and task overload that we are on a daily basis where we really just want access to what we're promising. Yeah, friction. Reducing the friction as much as possible. So I noticed this was sort of, you know, my favorite marketers over the best of a years where you would see these long, long, long, long landing pages that would scroll and scroll and, you know, the scroll bar would get really short on the right-hand side and it would go on for long copy forever. And now, they, you know, everyone's using, you know, landing pages that is basically just a very short one-pager. It may not go, you know, below the fold. It's becoming much more clean and efficient in the respecting people's time, which is a really critical thing. So you might see both, but I see that links and bios becoming more of a landing page replacement where you have either a link tree or a milkshake or any of them here. milkshake or a stand or some of those that basically, you know, really going, okay, this is, you click this, here's the three things, you know, three things that I offer that I do. You want this. When a book of call book clicks, it goes directly to that. So they're really just bringing a lot of what is your intention directly to the surface in making it more available with that having to jump through a lot of different complicated hoops. And so I personally, I mean, lead at forums is my world, but I started off in building landing pages. Right. Well, it's evolved, man. Yeah, things, things, things evolve. And I think that, you know, always flip, but I'm going to have to say links and bios are facing landing pages. And then so are lead at forums. All right. Last one. And unfortunately, um, this isn't necessarily an easy answer as well. So this means we need to potentially have you back. But what about like with the whole consumer journey lead ad forum, let's say, and now, you know, you're going to move people to like, you know, DMs, many chat, right, chat tools. What's your quick take on using those as, you know, part of the journey? Um, I think that we're going to see, uh, it's going to be really interesting, which is where you have companies leaning into artificial intelligence to answer a lot of questions, you know, for consumers, um, you know, doing really cool integrations with chat, GBT and, and Zapier to be able to do all that. And I've, I've built some, um, I, I, and also now there's them, you know, this different types of AI voice, where voice follow up and voice cells, right? Um, the, the, the public will, and it's funny, I judge this bought by, um, my nine year old daughter, which is that I'm teaching her AI prompt engineering and AI tools, and, and she, you know, she's, she's loving it and she's having fun with it. And it's a nightly thing that we do is seeing a father and daughter to teach her AI, but she also is, is very much just like, I, she's like, I really don't want AI as a part of my future. I got to, I don't want a, you know, she, she, the more she comes, comes aware of it, the more that she gets fun creating, the more that she is saying, I don't want things in my life, um, as AI, because I want to be able to engage with things that are real and real matters more. And when it comes into sales, I think we're going to see that, you know, AI bots and AI, you know, voice phone calls and follow up are really more of just going back to like a, the, the original phone trees where you would call them, it's like press nine for, you know, to talk to someone so, right? I think it's almost going to move. It's, it's basically coming a very fancy version of that where people are going to say, you know what, I really want to talk to a real human and the pendulum is going to swing to where when it comes to some of those aspects, you can get so far. Right now, I have a client that has had a text, AI follow up that has been working for a year, but this, this is a client that has had this previously before they are working with me and hasn't converted a single deal yet. It's killed deals for them. They're one that said, hey, I'm sorry, I haven't gotten back to you. I was in the hospital and, but I'd still like to look at homes, but I'm currently in the hospital and, you know, I don't know when I'm going to do that, but I always still want to see homes. And, you know, the bot responded, great, you know, you want to see some homes, you know, this weekend, right? So like instantly, like, you know, no sentiment reading, right? Just going to kill the deal right then. They were just crushed by that because it couldn't stop the bot faster than it did in business. Like, oh, my gosh, and so sorry, that's awful. Yeah, like, you know, it's playing the future. So now, you know, they're saying, we want a human to answer these phone calls. You want to inside sales agent to take some of these calls and text. So I think there's a role where AI can play a benefit. I don't think it's going to fully replace automating the first kind of initial long-term follow-up in touch points. Yeah, I like how you described it as the phone tree thing, especially when you're dealing with customer service or you just face it the offshore, right? Language barrier issues. That's going to think I make that process more streamlined for sure. And, you know, you've heard, I'm sure many of us have heard the Tesla AI voice recording. It was sounded like, you know, that one. And my only assumption, though, is it's just at one point it will be almost indetectable whether AI or human. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I think most people, they're going to ask questions, or are you a robot? Right. Right. And you'll have the option to get a human or not. And I heard this guy say that in the customer service standpoint, that depending on the context, obviously, you may want an AI instead of a human for customer support issues or service or just moving to the right department or answer that question, how do I reboot my route? You know, whatever it is, because sometimes the list of faces, the customer experience for humans, isn't that great? No, it's not. It's not. So I think the dream is still out. We'll see. I think we'll get some historical data built around it, you know, and we'll be testing some things that are self. You know, there's a, you know, I may disagree with some of it, but doesn't mean that we, just because I disagree with it, doesn't mean that we shouldn't, you know, I'm an AI marketer and there's some of the things within AI. I just don't believe in because I feel like it's not going to work, but there's a quote from my brother works at Amazon as one of the executives and he said that, you know, Benzos has this, uh, demand and commitment, um, uh, kind of methodology, which is, uh, sorry, disagree, disagree and commit, uh, methodology, where you may disagree with a certain thing that someone has brought to you within the organization or a client or a customer, but there are more boots on the ground, they're closer to the actual issue itself, and you may disagree with it and, and think it's not going to work and they still validate, you know, or try to validate that we believe it is going to work. So you can say, you know what, I disagree, but I'm going to commit, I'm going to commit the resources, I'm going to commit, uh, time to it, I'm going to make sure and push this forward just as I would have thought it was going to work and agreed with it, uh, and if it goes right, it goes right, if it goes, it goes wrong, I'm not going to say that I told you so it's, it's more of just the hey, we gave it our best and sometimes you can disagree with it and it still works really well. So that's kind of the, the thought process I have in a lot of AI, which is I can disagree with some of it, but I would disagree and commit and then see what actually happens and I'll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy, um, and give it a seem weird amount of resources. Hmm, very interesting. Well, man, this is an amazing conversation. I know we could keep riffing, but unfortunately, um, we have reached the end of our time. So once again, I want to give people the shout out to your website where they can go learn more about what you're doing for AI and, and, and ads in a smart way. Once again, that is elevated. REM training.com, go there, check it out. And of course, they can find you Travis Tom. We'll link that up, Facebook, Instagram, all that jazz. So thanks once again, man, for a look at this. I started with a blank page and now I have a full page of notes. Oh, nice. Man, you gotta, you gotta take a photo of that upload a chat GPT and say, right, write this down as a summary note for me, right? There you go. About, you know, that's the, that's what, and actually, I'm, I'm next level as I need to move to a digital note taker, like a remarkable or something. Right. Yeah, doesn't, I'm, I am full old school. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I'm not picking off because it just saves you time. So Travis, this always man really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you, Jeff. You too. Good to see you. Listeners. Yep. You bet. You know what to do if you like this episode. Hey, leave us a review forward this to somebody a real estate agent. This will help them add value, help you add value to their business. So appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. All right. Well, thanks for tuning into today's episode. Hey, you got a question for you. Are you struggling to get engagement and referrals from real estate agents and feeling like you're constantly fighting for business and a crowded market? What if I told you there's a way to attract agents to a provide unique value that helps them grow their business and generate referrals on the man helping you become the dominant loan officer in your local market? Look, I've was an originator for over 10 years. I understand the frustration of feeling like you're just another player and a sea of competitors and you're struggling to stand out and get noticed by the agents that you want to attract and engage with. 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