How to Become a Divorce Mortgage Specialist

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now. Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Here's what's up, Jeff Zimfer. Welcome back to another episode of Mortgage Marketing. Radio podcast. What do I need? I need a round. A round of applause for you guys. If you've been here a while, if you're tuning back in, if you're here for the first time, I want to give you a shout out. I'll thank you. I'm grateful around the applause. Thanks for tuning in. So let me get right to it. This episode, I'm bringing back a special guest who it's at a minimum, a second return to the podcast. Possibly a third. I don't know. I'd have to look back in the archives and see. After all, I'm approaching my 200th episode release. I hope you'll be here for that. I'm trying to think, what should I do? Who should I have on? Big party, celebration, giveaways. What do you guys want? Hey, jump into the Facebook group, right? Over there for the podcast. Mortgage Marketing Radio. Just go to Facebook. Search that. Jump on in there. We're going to do some cool stuff coming up for the 200th episode. So I want you to jump in there and be part of the party. All right. So I'm just going to get right to it for this episode here. I got back my special guests from a company that I've worked with on and off over the years and have heard great feedback from law officers who participated in their program. And the company is called divorce this house dot com, divorce this house dot com. Now why we're having a conversation here today is because look, we just obviously have gone through and are still kind of going through COVID. And when he was sell who's the co founder of divorce this house was sharing with me a statistic recently. I can't remember the exact number, but it's roughly a 31 to 34% increase in divorce rates since COVID because of COVID, because of a lot of issues relevant to that. But the point is this is look, as you guys know, this reified boom isn't going to last forever. And I've often thought to myself, if I was ever going to get back into originating, I would want to become known as a specialist, not a generalist, right? A generalist meeting. Oh, you do loans. Great. What's your rate? I always deal with who makes more specialists or generalists, who gets price shopped less specialists, who gets referred more specialist, right, who has a higher perceived value specialist. And this niche of divorce real estate becoming a divorce lending specialist, right, a divorce mortgage specialist and receiving the appropriate training and guidelines for all the nuances and issues that you need to be aware of when it comes to helping people navigate through the process of a divorce and the impact to their real estate, right, the largest debt that they have, whether it's one property or several properties, and what's happening with, you know, what they call the house spouse, who's staying in the house, who's not knowing some things in advance, it's not just, you know, taking one spouse off title, it's not just doing a refinance, right? It's much more involved than that. And it's how you intelligently approach, resent, and have conversations with divorce attorneys. So you don't shoot yourself in the foot and so that they don't slam the door in your face when you show up like everybody else who attempts to market to divorce attorneys. It is a specialized approach, it is a specialized positioning and conversation. And that's why I'm thrilled once again to bring you Wendy and the folks over at divorce this house.com is because they have provided training and resources both for loan officers and real estate agents to become, right, specialists in the divorce real estate niche. And this is an opportunity for you today, I want you to listen to this podcast. We have two loan officers on, right, with two amazing stories on how they've taken hold of this specialty of divorce real estate, position themselves to gain conversations. And literally the book of business from divorce attorneys, once they've established themselves as knowing what they're talking about, and the attorneys feel that they have number one and help them, right, with the case that they have as a divorce attorney, but also have rusted them because they've known exactly what to say so as to establish that trust with that divorce attorney. Does that make sense? So now what you're going to hear is the story from these two loan officers who, these attorneys are opening up their book of business, they're referring them to other attorneys. Matter of fact, you'll hear the conversation about one loan officer who wound up having a Zoom meeting with 12 attorneys and getting referred to multiple different attorneys. And he's only been in the business of year, right? And so I bring this to you because I want to prepare for the shift that's coming and the shift away from refice that is going to be coming. What are you going to do when the, when the music stops? There's only going to be so many chairs and then you're going to want to try and compete on price. So you're going to want to compete, try and compete on the same old same old, or you're going to want to do something different and meaningful in your career. And if this is the right thing for you, I don't know if it is, but it might be. So I encourage you to check it out for yourself, but also identify five agents that you'd like to attend, the upcoming free webinar you'll hear about on the podcast that's being hosted by Wendy and the team over at divorce this house. It's an intro to the divorce real estate niche and it's coming up on Monday, March 1st at 10 a.m. Pacific time, okay? And this is free and it's a great opportunity for you to invite your real estate agents, okay? They can register for free to learn more about how to do this and the good news is if they want to pursue this further, the two of you, you and your realtors will come out of this together and go through this process together and you'll both be equipped to now add this niche with how to approach divorce attorneys, how to build your business here, etc. All the stuff that the good folks at divorce this house will teach you. So the link's going to be in the show notes, but here it is, if you want to write it down right now, it is mmi.divorcethishouse.com, say it again, mmi.divorcethishouse.com, the link will be in the show notes. Once again, it's a free webinar that you're registering for, just so you can get more information about the divorce real estate niche and is this for you, how do you build referral partners, how do you team up with real estate agents, how do you approach attorneys, what to say, what to definitely not to say, right? You're going to learn about the staff and the demographics that are currently happening in the divorce sector when it comes to real estate, okay? You're going to know like what most agents do wrong and law officers that keep them from being successful with divorce attorneys. You're going to learn a lot. This is actually a 90 minute webinar and it's not a sales pitch. It is pure content and if you're listening right now, you've probably heard from divorce this house in the past. Here's your second chance. Professor Kelly Murray, who is the founder of divorce this house and has degrees from Harvard in Stanford, she is going to be the one who's leading this. She is the one who's curriculum that her clients pursue to then be able to go talk with attorneys and present this to realtors as well. Hopefully I've made the case strong enough that I seriously want you guys to check this out. I'm going to be sitting in on it because once I said once again, if you know who gets paid more generalist or specialists, you may want to consider a specialty in divorce real estate after you hear some of the success stories from my guests today on this podcast. So check it out once again, the domain to register for the webinar is MMI.divorcethishouse.com Without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Wendy, welcome to the show. Thank you. I should say welcome back, actually, for I think this is at least the second time and it's been since you and I last talked the world has changed in many different ways, hasn't it? I'll say. So anyway, for those listeners, go ahead and tell us who you are and what you do. Okay. Well, I'm Wendy Whistle. And co-founder of divorce this house, we are a division of collaboration, continuing education ink and the company that we have is actually a school. And so we train the lawyers, judges, paralegals and financial professionals on how to work with divorce real estate professionals. And so we train divorce real estate professionals like lenders and realtors, how to the best way to work with divorce attorneys. Fantastic. Okay. And I know we have two guests on as well, both in the mortgage business, mortgage professionals. Tammy, why don't you announce who are you? Where do you work in the country and how can you get me into the business? So I'm Tammy Wallensek. I'm a senior loan originator and I'm in the Chicago land area. So and I've been in the mortgage business for a long time. That's it. 20 plus here. Okay. And Don, how you doing, man, you know that you know the question by now. Right. Well, thanks for having us, Jack. Yeah. I'm a loan originator in South Florida. How many years in the business? Not even a year. Not even a year. All right. Congratulations. Thank you. You're a smart loan officer and that's why you're here. Okay. So now for those listeners, you know, that have been on my podcast for a while. They probably heard a conversation we previously had Wendy, where we're talking about becoming into it. And I apologize if I use the wrong terminology, right? But let's just say a mortgage originator who assists those going through a divorce with some of their financing options or choices around what to do with the property, right? Right. Is that fair enough? That's actually very good. You learned a lot when you took the class with us in 20 years. I have taken a class in person. Man, that seems like forever ago. And there's a number of folks in our audience. Of course, we've gone through your class, gotten the R.C. R.C. SD. Yep. It's R.C. SD. Yep. What is that explain that and why is it important? Well, R.C. SD stands for real estate collaboration specialist divorce. And it speaks to the legal professionals that you want to work with. We zero in instead of marking yourself immediately as a loan officer. We want our R.C. SD's and most of the R.C. SD's will refer to themselves as divorce mortgage specialists. And they are trained when to work with divorce attorneys. How to help? Why their new skills are important because what Professor Murray are co-founder and faculty who has degrees from Stanford University and Harvard Law School were very, very proud of her. In fact, she is my niece. And so quite a few people call me Aunt Wendy after they've taken the training, which is perfectly fine. But what Professor Murray wanted to do was to bridge the gap between what you do with the house and your decisions that you make and have that earlier in the divorce process instead of at the end of the divorce. And when everyone comes in and sees mistakes and I'm sure that the two wonderful R.C. SD loan officers that we have with us today, both Don and Tammy, have experienced that, you know, seeing mistakes that clients have made and would love to do over again. But it's not easy to do your divorce over again. Yep. So, and we're going to get to our two guests as well in just a moment. I want to set this up a little bit. What brought this conversation to today was you sent me an email recently of a statistic of the increase in divorce rates since COVID. Go ahead and share with our listeners like, what is that figure again? What's the rise in divorce rates? The figure is 34% increase in divorce filings. And of course, divorce is usually most people file in first quarter at the very beginning of the year. So lawyers are already busy. First quarter when most real estate professionals are not as busy. And then on top of it with COVID, we have even more divorces being filed. Many of these divorces involve property. Some involve multiple properties. We have high asset divorces taking place right now. There's a divorce in Knoxville, Tennessee with 17 properties. Most of those properties are being refinanced. And there are financial professionals that work in divorce who usually shy away from traditional mortgage marketing and real estate marketing from agents. Because that marketing is more ego marketing, it doesn't connect with what the lawyer needs. So my divorce mortgage specialists were trained. Know exactly what lawyers need when they need it, why it's important and how they help. Yeah, wonderful. So bringing coming to our two guests here in a moment, I was on a conversation earlier today with a small group of loan officers talking about the conversation we were going to have. And shared with them your statistics there about the 34% rise in divorce filings. You know, COVID has created a lot of additional stress and issues for people for a variety of reasons. But the point of me bringing that up and us having this conversation here today is. Right now we're in a crazy market, right. Housing is hot. It's high demand. It's low inventory rates are super low. Everyone's super crazy busy. But I think what everyone knows is this will not last forever. And so I'm hoping that our conversation today starts to create some awareness for loan officers listening about. Six months from now, nine, 10, 12 months from now, when this begins to fade away, right, the velocity and volume of deals, et cetera. I was always thinking like that old Wayne Gretzky thing, not where is the puck now, but where the puck going, you know, and that's where I want to, you know, kind of why we're having this conversation today. So Tammy, why have you chosen to become a divorce mortgage specialist? Well, I was really looking for. I was looking for that exact thing that you were just alluding to the fact that it's the longevity of finding referral sources really. And personally going through it and over the last years seeing clients coming to me that I couldn't necessarily help specifically because their settlement agreement wasn't set up for success. I knew that there was a really big market for that. And so in searching for that, I was lucky enough to find divorce with house and find that the training was there for me because I didn't have that. I didn't have the language for it to be honest to be able to speak intelligently without just sounding like a transaction like, oh, they need to refi or they need to purchase or they need, you know, whatever. It really gave me a lot of skills, so finding that was really like eye opening for me. How long have you been a divorce mortgage specialist or had your designation? I just, I took the course in December and ran before the holiday season. And so I've been really ramping up with building my team and that's part of the training that Wendy puts together and she has been really pivotal not only in the training that you received, but after the training. It's been, it's surpassed any any of my expectations as far as I'm kind of like a student of a lifelong student. So to speak like I love like learning different things, different certifications, different educational things with this particular one. It wasn't just the course that I took, it was the community that's been built in Macdon and Wendy and like just helping and supporting and understanding that putting people together when he's really good about putting different people in your communities together and that type of thing. Right. It's not a short period of time, but it's like super, super like how to pull it into this. Right. Okay. Cool. We're going to come back to you in a moment about like what's happened since then and how you're engaging in conversations with agents, for example, and or approaching attorneys. Don, what's up, my man? You're in the business. So when did you get your designations same time? No, actually, I earned my designation. I believe it was in June of last year. And again, I mentioned I'm a newbie, a green horn in the business coming from a similar background in the wholesale security side. And I saw that this is not direct to consumer, you know, our business model is loan officers here in this model is going to those reference sources. And it's the Realtors, which is a needed component, but I looked at it and I said, you know, this is a dogfight. Well, I looked at this other side of the room and there's this potential group of reference who have clients who are in transition that results in either a new loan origination or a refi. And those are divorce attorneys, but I had no idea how to work with them. What's their language? What's their hot spots? And fortunately, divorce is also brought to my attention and it's really taken, taken my trajectory in a way I didn't picture it when I first entered into the business. Yeah, I have to say, I guess I should acknowledge you, right, being so new, so to speak, not many, a loan officer, at least that I've been exposed to since 2003. Even consider this source until many years down the road, right, because they feel like they need to have confidence and you don't mean a certain skill set, but I applaud you because you're out there getting after an aggressive way with, you know, a wonderful group if you know how to approach him. You know, it's, it's funny. This is what February 12 since the 29th, I was just looking at prior to this meeting. This, as of today, I've had about 12 virtual meetings with, with, with divorce attorneys, one of which on, it was Tuesday. I did my CSI on her and turns out that she's a fellow alumni, alumni of Harvard Law, like Professor Murray is. So you got, you know, you don't know me, you got to understand, I'm not an Ivy League guy. I went to University of Florida and I was part of the class that made the top half possible. Okay, so let's just say that my priorities on campus were different than my Ivy League counterparts. So I'm walking into this, you know, meeting with my team members that said, okay, we better have our eight again. I go through the presentation as is trained in the, in Professor Murray's training. And when I finished, she looked at me again, Harvard grad, she says, wow, these are things that they don't teach us in law school. In fact, we miss a lot of these things. She asked, you know, are you familiar with the collaborative law? And I said, that's really, we're, you know, we try to focus, but I haven't, you know, then having much luck in getting in it. She goes, I'm going to bring you into the county meeting. So she says, in fact, we have 10, I said, how many family attorneys do you have there in your firm? She said, there's 10 of us. I'm going to send a group email. I'm going to copy in because I want you to come talk to us. That's amazing. I want to go back to what you said a moment ago, you since when you, what 12 virtual meetings over what period of time? Since on the last two weeks, since seven weeks. Yeah. How are you getting these meetings with these attorneys? Yeah, that's a great question. So as, as the loan offs, who's there listening to this, as they'll learn in their training. It's, it's best to be getting a warm introduction or referral, just like any other, any other business, but especially in the law community. So I had sponsored the local county, here at Palm Beach County, our association had a CLE that allowed me to sponsor. You know, they wanted a $350 sponsorship, gave me two minutes. What's a CLE? It's a continuing legal education. So I was, I paid, I was able to do a two minute introduction and then I've been following up the, the reception has been fantastic where it's, in fact, speaking of the support that you get with divorce this house. As a member, there is a, there's a, when you go to the website, there's actually marketing strategies and that there is a email that professor Murray has basically given us that we can copy and paste speaks their language that the response has been fantastic. So it's introduced the combination of the word mainly the referrals and, and, and network and taken advantage of that sponsorship that I did. So am I hearing that you sponsored a CLE continuing law, if I'm saying it correctly, education class, basically the equivalent of CE credits, as we know in the real estate space. And did you present at that? No, I just, yeah, they had it. They bring someone in that will do CLE. And it was strictly, you know, they wanted, they wanted sponsorship money. So they allowed me to basically say, hello, my name's Don, I'd like to follow up with you later about divorce this house. And that's how those meetings started happen between you and the attorneys. That's correct because the chair, the co chair of this is the fan every, every county has a bar association. And then within that county, within that bar association, there's different subgroups, criminal defense, commercial, and then in our case family law. So I found the family law group and spoke to the co chair. She said, in fact, when I spoke to her the first time, she said, you know, Don, you don't know who you're talking to. I thought, okay, here we go. She said, I've been involved with the county bar association for over 30 years, primarily in a leadership position, not only the county, but also with the state, Tallahassees, our state capital. She said in 30 years, no one from your industry has approached me about what you can do in this value that you bring. I need to get you involved with our, with our bar association. So that's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. It really is. Because again, I tried the traditional marketing approach when I first, you know, got into this last year and, and I got that, okay, Don, you know, you know, that sounds great. I'll keep you in my, my vendor file. And six months later after taking the training and sitting with this particular lawyer that I told me he was going to put me in the vendor file. He said, you know, these are things you're giving me real world examples. I've never considered before. Can you do this for all of my clients? It's powerful. Jeff, let me just jump in quickly here. It's Professor Murray's curriculum detail that is the difference. It's her training. It's her system. So when Don Mall sponsored the continuing legal education for the lawyers, when he introduced himself, he didn't introduce himself just as a lender. He introduced himself as a divorce mortgage specialist who does XYZ. And because of what he said at that time, the lawyers responded in wanting to hear more because what we want for everyone of our divorce mortgage specialists and Tammy can talk to this too, is that we want you to meet one on one and have a conversation with lawyers because the traditional marketing. Oh, hey, this is a great idea. 34% increase in divorce, you know, filings. I should get my flyers. I should pay a copywriter. I should start sending emails. I should drop by and drop off my card. No, they're too busy. They don't want that. They get tons of that and hate it. And you don't realize it, but you're tarnishing your brand because you're it's almost insulting. You know, you're throwing yourself out there with no understanding of the lawyers point of view. And so Tammy and Don know exactly what lawyers do. They know what goes wrong. They know what lawyers don't understand. Just like Don just said, we don't learn this in law school. And that's true. They learn it. But on, you know, in business, on the hard way, thank you. Yes. So basically what we want for all of our divorce mortgage specialists is to make sure that they have a conversation. And it's five point presentation that they learn. And we don't touch what the mortgage lender does, you know, how you qualify people, what you do for refinance and new loan origination. But we change everything and suddenly your real tours are getting transactions from you. So here's my favorite part about what happens. When you invite your best realtors to join you and some will and some want, but none of them are going to be insulted in hearing about something different and new. And most real tours have thought about this, but like lenders, they have failed. So because you cannot use your traditional marketing, especially this time of year. But what happens is you, you know, set up this new relationship because when the mortgage lender gets trained first, the mortgage lender triggers the transactions because you meet with the divorce clients early in the divorce process. And we project that the smart way to go about this is to work with the house spouse, the spouse who wants to keep the house in divorce. That's usually not the person that a real tour would want, you know, a real estate agent looking for the outspouse because it's obvious that that person is looking for a different residence house spouse, you know, real estate agents have nothing to do with refinancing. But lenders do and the trained lenders know exactly how to not only help the house spouse realize whether or not he or she can maintain that, you know, residence and refinance it in a single name. And when they can't what happens the house needs to sell. And so the divorce mortgage specialist is in a position to do something very different. Reversed refer to a great real tour, preferably trained because they'll be a wonderful partner to you. And Don has been recruiting realtors as has Tammy. But then you also help with new loan origination, you can have three transactions for your real tour, you can have two transactions for yourself, two new loan originations, because you have two spouses. And I would just jump real quick, what's a point that anybody just said about, you know, making your presentation the attorneys. And since what I say, there's been a dozen zoom meetings, not once in any of those presentations was I asked about what are my programs, but my rates. What are your rates? You're right. I had one this morning with a husband and wife attorney. In fact, Tammy was able to join. Yeah, it was unbelievable. I said, I said, do you have any questions? It wasn't like what you typically with a real word, tell me about your program. You do this. It was, what information do you need for me? I want to get every one of my clients apart. I want you to be part of our onboarding process for one of our clients. They actually were like, how do we incorporate this into every single transaction we do? I love that. I was going to actually ask that question, is that really the end goal is you become part of that attorney's team? Yes. And I said, I said, you know, allow me to become an extension of your practice. And as another meeting I had this week, the attorney said, I like this. He said, this allows me to punt this party discovery to you. You said that before Wendy, they like it that they can take this thing off their plate and give it to somebody they trust. Yes. And the job that the mortgage lender does is so essential. And it's a better case file. They have more documents, more information. And again, it's professor Marie's system knowing what it is that divorce lawyers need from their clients. I want to clarify, when you say case file, just briefly, what is that wise and important? How's it relevant to what we're trying to do? Well, every divorce is unique. So think of it as an individual. And we have a file for that individual and what needs to go in it to make an informed decision about what you're going to do. They're going to present a case for the divorce to work out whatever they're going to worry, but they need, you know, a certain amount of information evidence, if you will, whatever, right? Because they're going to fight on the behalf of their client. So what you guys are doing Tammy and Don is helping to build that case file. Is that correct? Yes. That's correct. One of the other things I wanted to leverage off of what Don said earlier about the meeting we had that I found really amazing too was the husband and wife attorney team. They were so eager to refer to Don to their colleagues and they're the people that they knew that I thought, you know, so that gives him even more people to get in front of without having to, you know, do any kind of cold calling or, you know, try to figure out who he's going to talk to next. I mean, it was just basically like, we want to incorporate you in our business and we also want to tell our friends about you. That's the perfect scenario right there. The perfect storm for sure. Oh, yes, there's zero money needed in marketing yourself to lawyers. You start with your first lawyer, you land that lawyer and you serve that lawyer's needs and that lawyer, unlike so many other in the real estate industry, I have to say, the lawyers look at real estate professionals as competitors and they look at you as vendors, not my divorce mortgage specialist or my RCSD real estate agents and real tours. You become a colleague, a knowledgeable trusted resource and consider to colleague to the lawyers when we're finished with you and all you have to do is pay attention in class, right, because you learned a lot of different things, didn't you Don and Tammy that you wouldn't have ever been able to figure out on your own. And basically, now you have a skill that will only enhance your career more and more. We guys, we guys nervous at the outset, like as you first, you know, starting engaging with attorney, attorneys, yes, super. I was, I went to my first attorney that I talked to was a friend, but you know, like, you know, I'm a friend on a colleague on a business level, but I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to use this terminology, I was telling down this to, I'm going to use this terminology and kind of check it out, make see if it works. I, I stuck to exactly the way that is scripted and it says and it's short and sweet, it's not like you have to memorize big paragraphs or anything, but like points. And he said across the table for me and shook us head the whole time. And then, you know, we had our finished or lunch or whatever I said thanks. And then as I got back to my office, there was already an email in my inbox from him to a colleague saying you have to meet Tammy to a family attorney. You have to meet Tammy she's going to help you with her with your clients and, you know, basically I recommend meeting with her. And I was like on fire like I was so sold it was like, okay, it worked. Yeah, better than running donuts around the office. Oh yes, we encourage them not to do that. Usually the attorneys are buying them lunch. Yeah. Yeah. What are you going to say, Todd? Well, you, you touched on a bit. I don't think we got into it, but you were talking about, okay, Wayne Gratsky, where's the puck down the B? That's something with us down the road. Yeah. Anyone associated with real estate now are having, you know, the last year was a banner year. This year is going to be another banner year. But again, what happens when something out of our control such as rates go up with this niche and having these relationships. It doesn't matter what's going on in the economy. If a couple is going to get a divorce, someone's moving out or they're both moving out. There's going to be a transaction there somewhere and it doesn't matter what the rates are. Right. It's pretty. Well, there's so many ways this this helps. You know, everyone's always looking for kind of that a slight edge, you know. Because it's because like you've said, Tammy, it's like everybody seems the same. You know, like realtors. It's like, how can you tell one realtor apart from you? You tell one realtor apart from the you can't and in general, right? And then the same as with loan officers, however, and I've reached this a lot is, you know, how can you differentiate yourself? And we're seeing what's happened with Zillow, you know what I mean? On the agent side. So if an agent you're listening to this, you know, Zillow just watch showing time and there's all Zillow is coming in closer and closer and closer to your customer direct to your customer. So the question is, are you going to try and compete with that? Or are you going to just play a different game? And to me, this is why I love this topic so much. Wendy, I've told people that follow me. I go, if I ever got back into originating, I would seriously look at this as a niche to specialize in. Because as more people compete for the pie, right, as more big players and big tech comes in to disrupt. This is a specialty or a niche, which they're never going to touch or ever be able to, because it's a very specialized knowledge. And I always say, who makes more generalists or specialists? Well, specialists make a hell of a lot more. They don't get a question typically about what their fees are, you know? Exactly. Well, and also, you know, there's, there's, there's different angles with this. I was at a broker open recently and there was a title agent who I've been trying to get in front of and wasn't having any luck. And he happened to be there, so he was forced to talk to me. So tell me about some of your loan programs. So let me ask you this. Are you trying to, are there any. Realter offices that you've been trying to establish a relationship or one that maybe you have, but yet you haven't gotten really deep in terms of the number of agents sending you business. So we have, of course, why? So well, I've got a unique approach and a new strategy. If you, if you'd be interested in learning about it. So we talked about divorce this house. He said, you know what? I'm going to see work cold calling. Three different realter offices next week. I said, you know what? I'll call it in next week, which was today. And I did and said every single one wants to learn about to force this house. And they want to have this virtual or the a bunch of learning. So now that got the title agent in to the, to the, to the realter's office. It's going to get me because I don't know. So again, the possibilities with this niche is limits. Yeah. That's a really, really good point because I found that with myself too. Like I was calling on agents, you know, and how do you separate yourself? Now I have agents calling me like really like. I'm interested in being on my team and, you know, people that have long history of being real estate agent 17 years, one woman. And, and it's very, very well known in the Chicago land area. And she's like really excited to start working with me. We didn't do any business before. So, you know, I wasn't calling her like begging her for business. I mean, I was just. She was our CSD trained and we've worked with together. We clicked and now we're doing business together. So. That's fantastic. Congratulations. By the way, to everybody here, obviously specifically, Tammy and Don for. You know, the bravery award, I guess, right? Which is like being willing to step out and be brave and take this on with a lot of unknowns. But obviously, you know, Wendy and the company there, the horse's house has been doing this for quite a long time and. So, we're also here to talk about a start to opportunity for those that are listening and want to take the next step. And I know one I've done this in the past to listeners have definitely wanted to do that. And so, Wendy, tell us about there's an upcoming webinar which loan officers from correct can invite their real estate agents can can come and attend and check this out for us. Yes. So what I would like to offer your lenders is an opportunity to invite their best real tours, but also real tours that they would like to start working with. And I'll have a worksheet on this, but just imagine a 30 to 45 minute webinar that is free and the title of the webinar is introduction to divorce real estate for consumer protection. And the worksheet that I can give to you Jeff to give to them will have some talking points for them to approach their their best real tours. I mean, this is a fantastic reason like Don and Tammy were just saying to reach out to real tours and say, what are you doing for, you know, 2021. And here's what I'm doing or here's something that I'm interested in, you know, we could look at this together because I do recommend that your loan officers who invite anyone should attend themselves because then they will actually see what this is all about. They can invite title reps because the title professionals can introduce the lenders to some fantastic new real tours. Then they also I'll give them a worksheet with just a few questions to talk to broker owners about or team leaders. This is especially effective when you've been trying to get into an office that has a preferred lender and they're not interested in hearing about your rates, but they will be very interested in having this webinar made available to their agents because brokers are under pressure now to retain their top producers. And they also want to recruit additional top producers from other brands. So the boutiques done. Remember how we coached you on how to invite your first broker owner and the broker owner saw a snippet of my presentation because he didn't know Don and he didn't know me. And then he invited all of his agents and didn't we have about 25. I mean, he had a total of maybe 40 agents. Yes, so 25 did attend. And in fact, two more just they said they're enrolling for this month. So that should bring up to about six, six of the 25 from that office. I don't know with RCSG, which means an Alan Geard to me, not only and that's a thing. I'm getting transactions from my RCSG realtor partners that have nothing to do with the more. Right. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Oh, no, I was just going to say I was involved in and this will be in my webinar. So I don't think I want to say it all, but let me just because when you're doing a divorce, what's so fascinating is the way we handle the divorce as RCSG, we make it positive. And it's so much more profitable when we have three transactions at the beginning of the divorce planned out, not necessarily happening before the divorce is final, but they're already making decisions that are in each spouse's best interest. What happens is their parents, their friends, their relatives, the non divorcing spouses, you know, that are friends with the couple getting divorced, that's called the sphere of concern. So you have your sphere of influence in non divorce, you have a sphere of concern in divorce. Now, if you haven't heard of that, there's a reason I made it up. But it makes complete sense because when people find out that their friend, their neighbor, their coworker, obviously their sister, you know, relative is getting a divorce, they're very concerned about it. And when they see the RCSDs assisting this family, making a smart decision with regard to their real estate, what happens? They then start using those professionals for their non divorce business and refer out for more non divorce business. It's amazing divorce is not 100% divorce much of it will be non divorce as a result of you having this designation. It's really interesting and I've got case studies in the webinar. So we're planning on doing the webinar March 2nd and you and I were talking about the time because I'm central time. So if I were to have it at one I'll have it whatever time is best for your lenders to attend. But I was thinking if we do one o'clock, then it's earlier on the east coast and not too late. I'm sorry. It's, yeah, it's earlier and then later. Yeah, that's perfect. So once it'll be it'll be on March 2nd, which is a Tuesday 1 p.m. Central, which is 11 Pacific, which is 11 1212 brick on the math. That's two o'clock Eastern. So so those listening and want to take the next step learn more, by the way, invite your agents, right? Yes, at the start of this podcast, you heard me, give you the URL. It's in the links in the show notes. Make sure you click go there, get yourself registered. You this is it as you heard from here. Have conversations with agents. Hey, have you ever thought about specializing in the divorce niche or have you ever been curious about right serving that market? Like you said, we're going to have some talking points on that. But I love the idea of invite not only your agents, but the title reps, because you heard about dawn. They they struggle with the same thing. Why don't I show up and add value to my real estate agents, you know? And so if you're listening and you've listened to me for any time, you know, and we put out stuff that I believe in and trust. And because of the history we've got here with with Wendy and divorce this house, that's why you're hearing this. So do yourself a favor. Like on the links, get registered in bite agents and you guys will see what this is all about. How you can build a special practice for yourself around this, right? Become a divorce more respectful list. And hear the success done not even a year into business like weeks out of class. Guys meeting 12 or 12 attorneys, man. Well, and again, and that I cannot take credit for that. That is all the training I got the scripting the coaching from professor Kelly Murray hands down. Yeah, she knows what she's talking about. That's for sure. All right. Cool. I think that covers it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey, appreciate Tammy being here, Don. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. You bet. Tammy, as always, you know, let's keep doing this. Let's keep offering some value to our people who are interested in this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And listeners, you know what you do already told you what to do. So click the links, get registered, check it out. If it's for you, great. If it's if it's not, hey, no harm, no foul, at least get educated on what this possibly could be for you. And that that's it. We appreciate you tuning in. Everybody will see you on the next one. Thanks so much. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchase loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it. Agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attracting convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top elbows, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded to our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgage marketing dot pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call. We'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgage marketing dot pro.