How to Discover Your Brand DNA

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with the real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, listeners, what's up, Jeff? Zimfer, thanks for tuning into this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Question for you. Do you ever struggle with finding your brand DNA? Do you ever get hung up on how do you show up in the world asking yourself questions like, who do I serve, what problem do I solve, how do I solve that problem, what content do I post to rise above the noise to get noticed and get attention? And how do I get to a place of being comfortable enough to say no or no, thank you, you're not for me. We'll stay tuned because that's what we're talking about on today's episode. We're going to get started in just one minute. Hey, hey, hey, all right, all right. So that's right. Today, we are going to be in just a moment, bringing on my special guest, talking about finding your brand DNA. But before we do, a quick reminder, let's face it, refise it down. You want more relationships and referrals with real estate agents, but the challenge is it's hard to get noticed. It's hard to get attention. You've got lots of other loan officers chasing the same real estate agents. So how do you get agents to respond and engage and to consider you as a potential partner for them? You need a better system. You need a better way than cold calling chasing pay to pay for leads and things like that. Good news is, is the mortgage marketing institute has brought to you the turn key plug and play package for you to get in front of realtors at scale and get more referrals in less time without cold calling without chasing without pay to play begging or anything like that. How do we do it? We leverage it through my agent classes, which is a turn key plug and play platform for you to reach agents at scale, having them come to you and building a platform of education and leadership in your local market, be it in person or online and sharing relevant information via classes. I don't care if you've never taught a class before. I don't care if you're not an expert in the topics that we provide for you. Everything is completely turn key for you. The PowerPoint, the speaker notes, the video tutorial of me training you how to do the class, the flyers, the social media images to promote, even down to the SMS messages and the email marketing that goes out and landing pages for reservations and confirmations and follow up to your class. It is completely turn key and we have weekly coaching calls to support you along the way. If this sounds like something you're interested in, you can go check out mortgagemarketing.pro, a brief video I put up there that will walk you through everything that's included and if it's a fit for you, great, if not, that's great too. I still love the fact that you're here being a listener to the podcast. Once again, that's mortgagemarketing.pro. Okay, so my special guest today is AJ Vaden. She's the CEO and co-founder of Brand Builders Group International. She's a speaker. She's a million dollar consultant and host of the influential personal brand podcast. Everything you hear talked about today will put links in the show notes. As a matter of fact, just don't forget that there's an opportunity for you to get a free branding consultation call with her team and you do that by going to freebrandcall.com forward slash AJ. That'll be a link in the show notes as well. But look, AJ, I've known of AJ for quite a number of years. She and her husband have spoken at several conferences that I've been at and I for some time have been on a journey to get more clear on my personal brand. What problem do I solve? How do I solve it? Who's it for and how do I show up in the world? That's what we're talking about today. Over the last 10 years, AJ and her husband have been part of founding, launching and building a very successful eight-figure coaching business, seven-figure speaking business, and AJ has been featured in Success Magazine, Fast Company, Entrepreneur, Forbes, was recently named as one of the top five personal branding speakers of 2019. And today, on this show, she's using her expertise and unique talents to help us get clear on finding your brand DNA. As a matter of fact, I have so much respect for AJ and her husband what they're doing at a brand builders group that I personally have decided to engage their services to help me get clear on finding my own personal brand DNA. So I think you'll love today's conversation to help you get clear. Once again, check the show notes for links to all resources, that free strategy call and more. Now further ado, let's get into this week's show. AJ, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. You're incredibly busy. It's wonderful to connect with you virtually, but soon to connect in person. Before we get into that, let's, for the listeners, tell them who are you? What do you do? Yeah, so I am the CEO and one of the co-founders of a personal brand strategy firm called Brand Builders Group. And so I say, that's a lot of what I do, right? And if you really want to like who I am, I recently got interviewed for this article and it was like this whole thing of like, tell us what are your three greatest accomplishments and it really got me thinking about how I want to introduce myself to people. And so instead of giving them a background of all these things that I've done, which may or may not really carry any weight, instead, I'm taking a new route. So it's so interesting to try this out when people ask now because it's such a weird thing. So I would say, if you really want to know who I am, I am a mom of two wild and adventurous toddlers. I would say that's the most rewarding thing of my not a like motherhood is the craziest thing and the best thing that I never knew existed. So that's a huge part of it. I am the wife to an amazing husband who also happens to be an amazing author and speaker. His name is Rory Vaden. And I would say outside of what I do at heart, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur. I discovered that I was virtually unemployable at the right age of 22 and have been on the entrepreneurial journey ever since. So that's a little bit of my new feel when people ask me, who are you? What do you do? I like that. I think more of us are shown up today with more of that like reality of, you know, it's not work first. It's like who I am as a human being first, you know? Yeah. How do you think that is? I'm curious. And by the way, what we're talking about here is finding your brand DNA today, right? And personal branding. But do you think that's an important part when you're thinking about your brand DNA too, the personal side? I do. I think a huge part of it is this, you know, everyone's been talking about it in 2022. This great resignation. Yeah. And I saw an article from Ariana Heppington, which I loved and she said, no, people have it all wrong. It's not the great resignation. It's the great re-evaluation. And I think that's a huge part of it as, I think for a lot of us, myself included, we got really caught up in our identity being what we did. Right. We got caught up in our identity being our work and chasing after the next thing and kind of forgot who we were. And I'll just take that first hand, I forgot who I was. And I think this is a really great chance for people to reevaluate what do I want to be known for. And at the end of my life, I don't want to be known for what I did. I want to be known for what kind of person I was. Yeah. I think that's a lot of it of getting really clear of what do I want to be known for in this world and go and after it. And with a lot of soul searching and a lot of question asking, I just realized, now then, I don't want to be known for anything that I've done. I don't really care if I become known for helping companies grow revenues or helping grow the bottom line. I want to be known for helping people find their passion. I want to be known for being a great mom. I want to be known for being someone who generally cares. I want to be known for someone who shows up and does what they say they're going to do when they said they're going to do it. And I had nothing to do with what I've done, but more of who I am. That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I can personally relate and I know a lot of our listeners can relate because I think we're all have gone through similar versions of that experience and re-evaluation like you talked about. And of course, we're talking to an audience of, quote, business people, these mortgage and real estate professionals who have to show up in the world and everyone's talking about brand and personal brand. And first of all, let me ask you this, how do you feel about that phrase, personal brand? Do you feel that it's overused, maybe it's become cliche, we don't even know what it means anymore? I definitely do not think people know what it means. Okay. I definitely do. And I think that's because this term, personal branding is too closely associated with being a, you know, influencer or being insta-famous or being some sort of celebrity and it's like, that's not true. And you know, I know we'll talk a little bit about it, but one of the things that we did about a year and a half ago is we started out on this journey of doing the first ever national research study here in the US on the trends and impacts of personal branding, right? We went out and hired a PhD research firm to conduct this nationwide study to really answer that question because as a personal brand strategy firm, we have our very specific and unique take on it and one of the things that we realized both in our own, in our own definition, but also what was really solidified through this study is that a personal brand is really just the new way of referencing your reputation. Okay. It's quite synonymous with again, back to it's being known for what you want to be known for and who you want to be known by. Unfortunately though, because of the growth, the exponential growth of influencer marketing, people associate a personal brand with influencer marketing and that's not true. A personal brand is, in our opinion, it's the formalization and the digitization of your reputation, but it is your reputation. It's the extension of that. It's the formalized business plan of becoming known for what you want to be known for and becoming known by who you want to be known by and that does not matter, and here's one of the things I would say too, is the other thing does not matter that people think matters is that somehow it's all online. That's not true. Okay. Well, that I like, that's refreshing because I'm definitely sometimes, you know, an opposite of the people who pervay, you've got to be everywhere online all the time. So tell us more about that. Why do you think that that's not true? Well, three main reasons. And I think if you could ask anyone who is doing both offline and online business strategy, they will tell you still today that their best source of business comes from their clients. It comes from referrals. It comes from word of mouth marketing and here's what I know to be true and I would bet that 99.9% of people agree with this. If I'm looking for a, I'm going to say new hairstylist, right, to keep it super general. I'm not going to the Google and typing in best hairstylist in Nashville. Uh-huh. I'm not doing that. I'm going to my, right, I'm going to my girlfriends who have awesome hair, I'm going who do you use? Right? Like today, it's like, if I want to go buy a house and I don't have an established relationship, I'm not going on social media and I'm not going online to figure out best real estate agent in Nashville, best loan officer in middle Tennessee. We're not doing that. We're going to our friends who we like, no interest and say, who did you use? And then once we have those referrals, once we have those recommendations, we're vetting them online. So then we're going to look it up. Yeah, then I'm going to look them up, but it's not the other way around. So again, having that very intentional reputation with the offline part of your business is still a necessity and no one talks about it anymore, right? It's like, we think everything happens online and it's like, that's not true. You're still going to get the most business from doing a really good job serving the people that you're currently serving and having them tell their friends and family about you. Now you need a digital presence, that's just a part of the world that we live in, right? If I got three referrals for a new loan officer, I'm going to go online and I'm going to figure out who has the most engagement, who provides the most value for free, who talks about what they're doing, who's most visible, who has the best website, who has the most testimonials. I'm going to do those things, but I'm going to do it in an intentional fashion. I've already heard about you. I've already gotten someone who's reputation I trust to tell me that you're who they trust. Yeah, so it's kind of like, I think about a bumblebee or a hummingbird, right? They're consumer journey today, right? They're just going around, they're picking up these little things all over the place and they're making their decision or formulation, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I need to come up with a better description of that, like a one word thing. The hummingbird method. I don't know. It works. It works. Okay, so let's bring this back though, brand, because I think, and this is a struggle for me, which is, of course, why I've engaged the services of your company. The question is, well, then how do I show up? Because I don't want to show up like everyone else, and that I'm sure you've seen this on social media, the trends and everybody's freaking dupe in those same audio clips, you know what I mean? And you're just like, you tune it out, you're like, oh my God, another person. So what's your, let's start at the top, where do you, where do you enter the conversation with people about discovering how they're going to show up in the world? Yeah. So I would say, and here's the thing, and it doesn't matter if you're in that place of just discovering it and just figuring it out, or you're already really well established, and you're already really well known in your space, or you have a great business, but you're not as well known in the marketplace, it doesn't matter where you start. We start everyone at the exact same place. I don't care if you're, you know, the president of the United States of America, or you're the person who is exiting, you know, taking 15 years off, raising your family. To me, you are starting at the exact same place, and it's answering four very important things. Number one, what problem do you solve to, how do you solve that problem, three, who do you solve it for, and four, how do you make money solving it? Okay. So four initial questions that we take everyone through, and those are not as easy to answer as it may seem, because I think the first one is what problem do you solve is really what uniquely sets you apart in the marketplace. Here's one of the things that I would say in general, and I'll come back to this in just a second, the challenge of differentiating yourself and standing out and being different. The challenge in that is it means that you have to be more you. You have to let people get to know more of you. No one likes that. It's hard, and it's vulnerable, and it's risky, and it's scary, and it's like it's be honest. It's like my husband and I, who's got a really prominent public-facing, you know, position as a New York Times best selling author. We had this conversation last night about this topic that he kind of feels called to share, but it's a bit controversial, and so it's really hard to put the real you out there at any cost, especially in a very PC world, and the world of cancel culture and all the things, and so it's challenging, but here's what I would say. It's like if you try to blend in, you're never going to stick out. If you look around and go, okay, what is everyone else doing, and I must do that, then you're doing the opposite of differentiating yourself, and the easiest, fastest way for you to truly stand out is to be more you, is to let more people know about your actual life experiences, what you actually enjoy doing, what you actually believe in, and teaching things that you've actually done and can help people with. That it's so simple that it's completely overlooked, and I'll give you just like three quick examples here, 100% of the time. If I post a piece of content about personal branding, entrepreneurship, leadership doesn't matter, and then I simultaneously post a picture of me and my kids dressing up as Halloween, which one do you think gets 100 times more engagement? We all know the answer right now. Well, no, and it's why people care more about who you are than they do what you do. What's behind that? What's behind that? I think part of like we've got trust issues today and stuff like, what is it? I truly believe it's because people truly are desiring to know people more today than ever before. I think specifically after the last two years, people are going, I want to find people who enjoy life, have fun at life, people that I align with, people who do similar stuff to me. It's like if you have kids or have ever had young kids, whatever I'm posting relates to you. That's the majority of the population. We know the craziness of having two toddlers and running the business. It's wild. So I think a part of it is finding people that you can relate to, and it's, we're in a new era of building relationships online with people that we may or may not ever have face-to-face relationships, and I just think about it like this, imagine you were dating someone today, and all you talked about was your business. They didn't know anything about you. Over. You know, that's what's happening all day, every day, that we expect to build relationships and garner trust, and I know nothing about you, other than some inspirational quotes that you post and some content videos, like there's a, I think there's a distrust in the marketplace that comes from, we don't know what's real anymore. Exactly. The point I was getting to, which is why we question and doubt everything online, let's say specifically. And that's what I would say too. It's like, and if people would just remember that still today, the best source of business comes from your current book of business, it would change everything. Did you though, okay, so I find that there's certain resistance and certain age demographics to this issue of putting yourself out there and being personal, and I'm, you know, I'm looking at your Instagram feed, and you're definitely out there and, you know, saying who you are, what you believe, what you're all about. And at the risk, I believe you kind of alluded to this, at the risk of also, you know, what's the right word? I didn't want to say polarizing, but you got what I'm saying. Definitely polarizing. That's the one. Okay. All right. I'm repelling, but you know, and some people who look like, oh, there's this, or they believed, well, they're not for me. And like, we got to be okay with that. Oh, you have to be okay with it. And I think that comes down to knowing what audience do you really care to serve? It's like, who do you want to be known by? And I've gotten really clear about this is the market that I desire to serve. This is the market I want to speak to. This is the market that I want to pour my life into. I know who you are. And if you're not in that market, that's okay. Did you go through like an avatar exercise, right? Sure do. We sure do. I sure do. Like, in fact, we take everyone through this. And it's, to me, it's more getting really closely aligned with the psychographics. And I think specifically in this, you know, kind of world of real estate and mortgages, it's a super commoditized industry, right? The only reason I'm going to buy from you versus someone down the street or someone in your office is because somehow I align more with you. I trust you more. I like you more. There's something that is different about you, not what you do. It's about who you are. And for me, that's what you have to appeal to. And a part of that is getting really hyper specific on the market that you want to serve. And like, one of the things that I have found is the more clear you are and the who, the easier it is to ask for referrals, the easier it is to know what to say yes to and what to say no to because you know where your market resides, the easier it is to know what to post content wise online, what platforms to post on, what if you're going to do pay traffic, like, what are the things that you want to target? Like once you're hyper clear on the who, everything else becomes easier. And it's like, there's also, I really believe there's a biological component to this. Like, I don't know if you've ever heard that term, particular activation, right? So it's like, you know, I remember when I bought my white infinity, my mom, mobile, that's what my husband cost it five years ago, it's like, all of a sudden, I see this infinity, QX, whatever it is, I don't even know what I drive, it's white car. I see it everywhere, right? So once it's like into my purview, I see it everywhere. I think the exact thing, the exact same thing happens when you get really clear on the who that you want to build your business off of, that ideal client that you wish you had 1,000 of is you start to find them because you know who they are. You know who to ask. So when you ask someone for a referral, it's like, hey, make sure to pass my card around worst thing you could ever do. Like, I don't know who to give it to. There's no going to do anybody. They're going to go on the trash, right? Instead, it's going, hey, I know that I really want to serve brand new families to this area, the people who know no one. I have a passion of working with people and helping them, helping them acclimate to new communities. Like, I want to work with brand new people who are moving to this area. So if you know of anyone who's brand new or thinking of moving here, that's who you can refer me to. And the more you get clear on that, it easier it is to find them online and offline. Then if we're clear on who we ultimately serve or what problem we solve, right? Before we get to the how or maybe this is related to this is how you solve that problem. But what I'm thinking about as I hear you is, is back to the whole question of how do we show up? This then brings up the content discussion of if I know my audience, right? Because I know a lot, and you know this very well, a lot of people struggle with what do I post, right? I'm so tired of saying that phrase, but we all face that. What do I post? What can I be doing? So how would you help us there? Yeah, I'd say once you know what problem you serve or what problem you solve and how you solve it, right? And that's where you're uniqueness, your uniqueness lies. Like me, you and everyone listening could all have the exact same problem. We could all have that problem. So I bet each of us would have a unique twist on how we would solve that problem, right? And then who it's for. So then I know it's, this is the simplest thing to do. I'm not going to say easy, because then everyone's going to like shrug it off of oh, it's so easy for you to say that. But it is simple. And what we tell people is make a list of the 52 questions that your prospect has, your client has, or the questions that they should have. But in other words, water all the questions that you know that you have the answer to take each one of those questions, answer them one at a time. Now you asked me why 52, 52 weeks in a year, right? You take that question, going, I know this person that I want to serve, I know that they're going to have this question. So I'm going to answer it. I'm going to make a content video out of it. I'm going to post it at the same day, the same time every single week. And I'm going to be consistent as I'll get out and I'm going to do it all 52 weeks of the year. I'm going to repeat this process next year. It does not need to be every day. It just needs, you need to tell people what to expect from you. From that one video, you can have pull out quotes. You can turn it into a blog. You can splice it up and make several different 30 second clips. You can make promo clips. You can make it into a little YouTube series. You can turn it into audio pot. You could do a thousand things with one video a week. That's just five to seven minutes. Yep. Yep. The challenges there's so many things to do, the people just go, oh, that's just too much. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you're, hey, if you get to 52, congratulations, right? Some people are going to maybe you don't have to do it all at once sitting. But I know I've told people before it's like, what's the five questions you get most often? There's five videos right there. Totally. It's just the difference in how you and I just solve that problem. I'm doing the short term fix. You're doing a long term for a year just because I mean, Ligot, I know the audience very well, right? If I get you to five, man, that's like five gym visits, we're like, now we're rolling, now I can get you back. Yeah. And here's how I'd say too. It's like, we tell people plot the 52. And then if you can do one a week, great. If you want to batch them, do five out of time, right? But it will take most people less than 30 minutes to list out what are 52 questions that my audience, my prospect, my customer base, they have. Why? Because you already know these. It'll take you probably less than 10 minutes to write them out. Well then you have your content planned for the year. Now you've got to go and answer them. You've got to do the videos. But at least now you know what you should be talking about and then go execute in whatever batched methodology that works for you. You have this concept of a one word problem. Tell me more about that. Yeah. We believe that if you're not clear, no one else is either, just like people, you know, old saying, I confuse prospect, never buys, right? We believe the same thing in a personal brand. It's like until you're so clear that you can nail it down to one word, you're not clear. What we find with most people is they're not even clear on what a problem is. I'll give you, you know, it's like, I'll give you an example as so often we will work with our clients of, you know, right, let's, let's talk about what problem you solve. And they're like, oh, I already know what problem I solve. Great. Tell me. It's confidence. I solve the problem of confidence. Well, confidence is not a problem. Confidence is a payoff. The opposite of confidence is a problem, right? So the inverse, so insecurity, self-doubt, low self-esteem, you know, lack of, you know, all these things, those are problems. And so there is a complete disconnect between what problem you solve and what a problem even is. And for us, it's about clarity. It's about being so clear that you can say it in one word. It doesn't need explanation because you know what that means. It doesn't need pretence or this definition. It also doesn't need to be a sentence or a paragraph. If that's what it is, then you're not clear. Hmm. So a huge part of this is about making sure that there's no beating around the bush. There's no buffering. It's being so crystal clear that it's in one word. It doesn't need explanation. Well, it doesn't need explanation for you per se, so you understand it at that level, right? However, your branding statement or whatever could be a sentence. Absolutely. So think about this as like what's what we call your brand positioning statement, which is what problem you solve, what causes that problem, then how do you solve it? Your uniqueness, your payoffs and your title. We call that framework, that's your brand positioning statement. And that's all very, very internal facing. That's all super internal facing. None of that is external facing. From that, we build out all the external marketing. But this is internal brand facing of making sure that everyone who's ever going to touch your brand knows what problem do you solve, what causes that problem, what's your message for it, what's your uniqueness, what are the payoffs and what's ultimately the title, right? We're going to have a podcast or a blog or a book one day or a course, right? That's where titles come in, not applicable to all. But we call that your brand positioning statement, it's super internal facing. And again, so much of that is for clarity. It's for you and it's for anyone who's going to touch your brand now or in the future, but it's not external marketing, though. I'm just thinking in the context of today with so much noise, how relevant I think that is to have a brand positioning statement that cuts through the noise, because most don't, most show up, like I've asked them, I'm sure you've done this exercise, you ask somebody, in my case, I've asked real estate agents, for example, in the past, like who's your client? And what do they say? Everybody. So that game doesn't work anymore because earlier, it's a commodity business, right? Like the old joke, same as lame, right? So how do we then, I'm trying to get clear to like, you know, showing up differently, it's going to be knowing what problem we solve, who we solve it for, and I'm coming back to the content thing. I don't know why, but that's why I feel drawn to, once again, probably because it's the, for me, it's the gap versus the gain, it's the gap, people don't know how to get from. Okay, I serve, let's say, you know, divorce, divorces my niche, people going through divorce, they got the hats, they got the this or that, but how the hell do I show up and actually communicate that to the world? Well, you got to ask yourself, what problem does this person have? Right? If they're going to, going through a divorce, and now they're having to go out and get a new place, find a new place, do all this, and you think start their life over. What's the problem that you solve for them? Like, what problem do they have? Most people cannot answer that and tell you can answer that. Your content is fluff, your content is not real. Your content is surface level, and it is speaking to everyone, right? There's a couple of personal brands that I think are great examples because they're quite the household name. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, so I'll use one that's local to us, Dave Ramsey, right? Dave Ramsey solves the problem of debt. He is synonymous with that. He has become known for that. If you want to get out of debt, he is a very well-known person in the space. That's the problem he solves. So you want to be known for a part of the problem you solve. Like, we at BrainBuilders Group, we solve the problem of obscurity. People who are not known who want to be known. But that's a great example. Mother Teresa, very well-known public figure, what problem did she solve? Yeah, that's a good one. I've heard you say that before. What did she solve? Was it loneliness? Poverty. Poverty, sorry. Yes, poverty. Damn. But she spent her entire life trying to solve the problem of poverty. Right. Like, how do you show love and care to those who have no means, right? Martin Luther King, Jr. Okay. Give it to him. I'm not going out on a limb again. Inequality. Inequality. Inequality. Inequality. It's like, these people are known for their life's work has been committed to overcoming this problem. Right? Like, you know, Brunei Brown, very well-known author and speaker, the problem she solves is shame. Right? It's like, that is how, because she became known, was how do I overcome shame, right? And it's so much of this is, it's becoming synonymous with this problem you solve for a group of people. And so if you are trying to tailor your message and reach people who are starting over in a divorce setting, there's a problem they have. Yeah. Can your problem you solve change with the market or change with the times? I would say it would change as your entire brand evolves. Okay. So, yes. I think over time, as you change, as your services change, like if you were to leave your current business and start a new one, it probably would alter. But just because the market changes, no. I think... I'll get real specific for you. I'm thinking in the context, and you know this is well in national everywhere. We've got super low inventory with real estate. We've got multiple offers, buyers, you know what I mean, all the stuff they got to deal with. And I'm thinking from the lender side of things, it's like the problem you solve is, I don't know, certainty, right? Maybe it's wealth building. But if I'm showing up and talking, trying to get a real estate agent's attention, how do I solve the problem they have, which is getting buyer offers accepted and getting more sellers to feel confident about selling, it's not so much my problem. But if I can help them, they're business. So here was what I would say with that, I think in some respect, the audience changes, but not necessarily the problem. Sometimes, the message, the solution to the problem changes, but the problem remains most often. How we overcome that problem shifts, the audience shifts, but I find most people have a through line and this problem they solve throughout most components of their lifespan. You can see, even though Dave Ramsey also talks about leadership and he also talks about business, there's still a through line of being debt free as growing your business without debt. And Dave Ramsey's an excellent example, especially in the my sector of also repelling people. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because he talks about getting a 15 year versus 30 year and all that stuff. He's quite intentional about it. And do you think he cares? I think he knows who his audience is. Right, right. And the more that he repels, the also the more he attracts. And it's getting crystal clear on your audience. Yeah, and once again, not to continue to beat this whack-a-mole thing, but it's like, that's where you've got to be okay saying no, right? Yeah. You're not for me. Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is a hard lesson that we learned repetitively for years and years. It's the more you say yes to the wrong people, the more you're forced to say no to the right people. Wow. That's good. That's good. That's a writer downer. Yeah, tweet that. But it's true. It's like I just, it's like if I'm so busy and I'm so consumed working with people that are the wrong fit, it takes more time, takes more energy. I don't have time to find and serve the people that would be the ones that give me energy, that fill my cup, that they are the ones I want to work with because I'm already too busy, doing work for the ones that I don't want because we're yes people. It's a scarcity mentality when we say yes to everything. Ah, just look at that. That's another wisdom right there. A scarcity mentality when we say yes to everything. That is so true because it's a fear of missing out or losing out or yeah, money, your scarcity issues around money, perhaps. Wow. And it's exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting as well. You get into all this psychology with like really getting clear on your brand and your audience, yeah? It's quite therapeutic to be honest. Random benefit of kind of getting through and getting clear on all of this because I think most people are doing most of what they're doing because it's what other people are doing. That's what they were told to do, taught to do. That's what they learned to do by watching others and instead of going, what do I want to do? Yeah, I'm thinking about that in the context of again, showing up online and you've been to the conferences. I was just at one recently of like, you know, people copying everybody and you got to, you could literally there was a speaker there who clearly was quote successful by monetary terms, but to give a prescription to everyone in the audience that you need to be everywhere, like, oh my gosh, I'm even apprehensive sometimes of like coming out and being the opposite of a voice because these other voices are so strong, like compared to who I am, I'm nobody, but compared to them, but I don't think that's the right message really. I don't either. And I would actually give a very different message. And here's what I would say is the people who are going to be attracted to the person who says be everywhere is different. They would, the person who would be attracted to you who says, that's not the way it has to be. And I think again, it's getting clear on who do I want to serve? And it's like, and I want to serve the person who's like, I can't do that. Being on social media is not my full-time job. I'm not an influencer. I'm not an online celebrity. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a business owner. I'm a long officer. I'm a real estate agent. I'm a broker. It's like, I can't do that. So teach me how to do something that's beneficial to me and my business. And you're going to attract those people the more you speak about that in a way that you wholeheartedly believe. And I, you know, it's like to be in this space and to say what I'm about to say. I don't believe you should be everywhere. I believe you should be where your audience is. Yeah, yeah. Right. Am I my caveat to this? There's always, like, unless you have a team, right? Because then a team can support you and not everybody can be Gary Vee. No, right? And it's like, and there's a time and a place for that. But until, until there's a time and a place for it, no, you don't. That is some myth that you've been told, some lie that you're believing into. And in fact, you're believing it so much that you're nowhere, right? Because it seems so daunting to do it that you do nothing. Oh, damn. I'm going to go back and listen to this just for these drops. Well, it's, you know, at the thing, it's like, it's just real, right? I'm in that seed. It's like being in this business and we have a full team. And our team trying to keep up with my brand and Roy's brand and our company's brand, like they can't do it. And it's like, well, I for sure can't do it. I'm in this space. And so I just got really hyper clear on who's my audience. Where are they? And, you know, I'll steal this from, we had Jasmine Star on our podcast, who's a really big social media marketer and I loved what she said. And she said, people get confused when it comes to posting content. And she said, you have to remember, there are two platforms in which you have to think about content. There is the platform or platforms that you create content for. And then there are the platforms that you consume content on. They're often not the same. And then I started thinking about that. And I'm like, yeah, I consume an abnormal amount of my content on Instagram, right? It's like, it's where I get all my mommy facts, fashion, interior design, recipes, food. It's like, that's where I go. But quite honestly, the majority of my audience is not on Instagram. They're on LinkedIn. And so most of my content creation is for LinkedIn. Because I know that's where my audience is. I know I want to serve. That's where my, that's where my audience is. And then so for me, it's like if you want to learn personal brand and entrepreneurship leadership marketing, you better connect with me on LinkedIn, because you're not going to get that on Instagram. On Instagram, they're going to learn about me as a mom, wife, believer, entrepreneur, traveler, doer of weird things. So it's a human interest account. But if you're going to come there and think you're going to like learn all things, social media and personal brand, and you're going to be very disappointed, it's not what you're going to get. But you are going to get to know my heart and what I believe. And you're going to get to know a lot of it, because I put it out there. But if you really want to learn from me, I say follow, like subscribe to my podcast. Like we, our content is so solid. Their guests are amazing. It's like, go there, right? And if you just want other tips and stuff, go to LinkedIn. So I've gotten really super clear on, I refuse to be everywhere, because it's exhausting. And I don't think it works for most people. And there's some content you do not post on LinkedIn that you do on Instagram? Most of it, I don't repost anywhere. The only place that you're going to get reposted content is on Facebook. Because my audience does not live there, and I do not consume there. So it's the dumping ground for all the things. I'm going to say Facebook has become the dumping ground. That's the dumping ground. But one of the things that we've realized too, that we create original content for our email list. So it's a benefit of being on our email list. If you're on our email list, we're going to do private trainings for you. We're going to do cool giveaways. We're going to do all things unique. So it's not just a consolidation and regurgitation of content you could find elsewhere. It's truly unique, hyper, unique, created, facilitated, curated content, just for the email list, for our email list. And then it's like, you have a reason to go to LinkedIn. You have a reason to go to the podcast. You have a reason to follow me in all the places. Because you're going to get different things everywhere you go. I know that's the antithesis of what most people promote. Yeah, but here's the thing. Is most people know when they hear that, you need to be everywhere and do like all the videos and the dancing and the pointing at the bubbles or whatever, whatever whatever that example is. They know that they can't do it and be that that doesn't feel real to them. Yeah, it's not authentic. But to your point earlier, what happens unfortunately then is they get stuck and do nothing. That's correct. They feel like they're losing. Like if I can't do it all, I might as well just do nothing. And that's just not true. Pick a platform, go all in. Right. The most, I would tell you some of the most successful people that I know in business have gone all in on one platform and they own the heck out of it. I would also say as a reminder to everyone, who is listening, you do not need millions of followers to make millions of dollars. Right. You don't. You need a curated audience that you can serve. And that just may be in the hundreds. Maybe it's in the thousands. They seem to be the right ones. Right. Right. Yeah, people who share like minded, like like values, right? Who are supporters and passionate of you and what you do and what you're all about. Like you said at the top of this interview, we'll come full circle and close it out. It's like that's what people are really in terms of evaluating. Do they do? Do they want to do business with you today? We didn't have that in the day of yellow pages. Right. We had the yellow pages. We had your ad, the bigger ad one. Okay. That plumber must be the most successful plumber because they have the biggest ad. Right. Okay, cool. That's it. I don't need to know what he looks like. Now is different. Now we want to know, hey, what are they? Like I was just doing some research for my son for dermatologists and stuff like that. And I'm doing the hummingbird thing. I'm bouncing around. I'm looking at reviews. I'm trying to find out who these people were putting a puzzle together to decide, does this person look likable, trustworthy? Right. That kind of stuff. Yeah. And what we're finding is, you know, personal branding at the end of the day is a trust accelerator. Mm-hmm. Like to what you just said, it's a trust accelerator. That's really what it is. It's making your reputation known so that people can decide for themselves. Are you trustworthy? Right. Right. 100%. Awesome. We're speaking to be trustworthy. I know you and your crew are. That's why I'm engaging with you guys to help me with my personal brand. So for those listening who want to maybe take a next step with you, where should we direct them? Yeah. It's like if you want to check this out, just continue this conversation. Visit freebrandcall.com forward slash AJ. So freebrandcall.com forward slash AJ. And if you request a call on that page, we will give you a free one hour brand strategy call with one of our strategists. We know that we're not a fit for everyone and we're okay with that. But we will do a free call with you. We'll have a conversation just like we did here today. If you want to learn about what it's like to work with us, awesome, if not, we'll talk to you up with free resources. Isn't it, send you on your way? Yeah, at a minimum, right? I mean, have the call because I've done the call and it's an excellent exercise to go through and get clear on who you are, what problems you solve, things we talked about. But then of course, I'll put links to that in the show notes and your website. So if people do want to sign up for your newsletter or other things that they have. I lean on you guys for a lot of my content as well. Like when I teach branding and stuff, I'm going to give credit of course, but you guys are putting out some amazing content as well. Fred, the word, tell everyone you know. Well, AJ, I can't take you enough for being here. Really thrilled. And I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks in Nashville. But once again, I appreciate you making time. Oh, it was awesome. Thank you so much. You bet. Listeners, you know what to do. If you like this episode, please leave us a review. And that way we'll reach more people. Appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Hey, thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember, if you like this episode, please leave us a review that helps us reach more people and bring more good value and content to you, our listeners. And then don't forget, if you are a loan officer who wants more agent referrals in less time, be sure to check out the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership at mortgagemarketing.pro and learn more about our turnkey system of agent classes that puts you front and center of your local real estate agents, attracting agents instead of chasing them, and getting agent referrals like clockwork every single month, just like Kerry Cobb, who her first year in the business with closing over 75 loans, achieved 40% of those 75 loans exclusively from agent classes. And if you want to learn how she did it, now you can do it too. Once again, go to Mortgage Marketing Pro and I'll see you over there. Thanks for listening. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and you just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents butts and seats, partnering with affiliates real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top L.O.'s authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now, head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.