How to Generate Quality Leads with Facebook Ads

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Jeff Zimfer host of Mortgage Marketing Live. So excited you're tuning in here today, wherever you're watching from, please take a moment and comment and say hello because we're going to get started with our special guest in just a moment. It's mortgage marketing live bringing you the truth and what's working for mortgage marketing. Every single week, we're going to get started in just a minute. Hey, hey, here we are back live. I'm your host Jeff Zimfer and we have with us my good friend of gosh, how many years now Scotch and welcome. It's been a long time. Yeah, welcome to the show. By the way, the audience, they're so glad you decided to show up. They approved. They approved. That's good. You're on our approved list. So listen, man, I know you're incredibly busy. You're running a mortgage brokerage. You're a marketing person extraordinaire and you've made time for us to share some of what you've been learning about running this Facebook test lately. So for those of you who don't know who you are, why don't you give them the quick background, who Scotch and what's y'all about? Yeah, I've been a mortgage industry for 20 years now. I was a mortgage broker for a while, went over to direct lending with small local brokerage after the crash in 2008, went back to brokering in 2015. Really everything that I'm going to show you here today, I don't know about broker extraordinaire. I love trying to break stuff and then I love trying to fix it. So I'm very analytical. In my mortgage practice, I've always been an educator and I always like to educate I'm not a great salesperson. So what I'm going to show you today was actually our, it was my solution to start building referral partnerships because we were doing consumer direct for many, many years. I'm not a donuts and coffee kind of guy. I don't like to initiate conversations, you know, those are my character flaws, but they prevent me from getting into big rooms of people and glad handing and back padding and all that stuff. So what we did is we created this system, a process so that we could show that really to help agents generate more buyers and to, and this is really about database marketing. And yes, you can go out and you can doork, but with all of the incredible technologies today, once you, once you're out there, what are you talking to people about? Is there a way to get them into a database so that you can keep touching them? You can stay in front of them because consumer direct leads are really, really misunderstood, especially buyer leads. There's a very long timeline on those. Most consumer direct leads are going to be ready to buy in 4 to 18 months. And so all you can really look at is, am I able to capture those leads and put them in my database at a reasonable cost? Do I have mechanisms set up so that I'm staying in front of them so that I can not only capture the people that are ready now, but I can stay in front of the people that aren't ready. So it's not, these aren't, these aren't deals you close today. These are deals you close six months from now. So when you're thinking about building your database and database marketing and all the incredible tools we have at our disposal right now, it's a good idea to keep filling that database and keep working that database of consumers because ultimately they make the decision, right? We as consumers, we don't get tricked into stuff, you know, we don't, and buying a home isn't an impulse buy. So when you're working at database, you're building trust over time. And then when the consumer is ready, hopefully you've done a good enough job that they raise their hand and they say here. The one thing that I do want to say because people always ask me this, how the hell do you do all this stuff? I have a business partner. So we specifically structured our business so that Josh Lewis manages operations and all the loans. And I mostly focus on this stuff on the creating the marketing, creating the marketing materials and going out there and doing webinars and things like that. I'm kind of the rain maker, he's kind of the bucket and that's why this works. Awesome. Yeah. So it's a good partnership there, feeling very, both of those roles are very, very important. Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. So let's dig into it a little bit. And before I do, I want to give a quick shout out, virtual high five. To Mike Copeland, Ben Lavender, Shannon Young, welcome. As you guys know, if you've got questions for us as we go through this, put your questions in the comments wherever you're watching this. And hey, if you're on YouTube, hey, let us know you're watching on YouTube also. We'd love to know our YouTube family is growing over there. All right. So let's talk about, let's set this up. You decided to go public with this recent test you did on Facebook and running ads. So do you want me to show the first ad, do you want me to bring that up and we can talk through it? I do want to set it up first. Yeah, let me kind of set it up first. So specifically, what we're doing is we're going out and we're doing lunch and learns, which you are the godfather of lunch and learns and so we're doing, we were doing lunch and learns on Facebook marketing master class, which was basically just doing a complete breakdown of the ads we were doing and these were for agents. Then we started doing one for home bot and teaching agents how to use home bot to grow their business. So within those, those are both tools that all fit into one system and it was a lead generation system that we basically offered to be the marketing partner for realtors that wanted to join with us. We called it the rising tide theory lifts all boats. So if we can be your external marketing arm and so I would do this presentation, I would do the lunch and learn in exactly the same way I'm going to do today, actually to a much lesser degree. We lift the kimono. I mean, I'll tell you everything that we're doing, I'll show you exactly how we're doing it. 99.9% of people will say, cool, can you do it for me? And so that's the strategy. So what I'm going to show you today is really just the, it's the entire process, it's all of the tools, it's all of the pieces, it's all of the messaging and all of the follow-up. We are running these ads on behalf of an agent out of our business manager. So we're creating the ad, we're monitoring the ad, we're measuring and modifying the ads to make them work because they don't always work. Just for a lot of different reasons and then we're connecting them so that they're pushing into all of these other contact conversion and nurture systems automatically. So in a perfect world, all the agent has to do is answer the hot transfer from verse or they have to answer their email that somebody is interested in doing something. So what we've tried to do is we've tried to completely eliminate the lead follow-up piece for agents and we've tried to simplify the lead follow-up piece on our side so that we can scale. So. Okay, real quick, let me just point out for those listening. You mentioned a company called verse, verse.io, formerly known as agentology, I believe. Agentology, correct. Correct. Yes, that's our PSA. Is that your verse.io account or your agents? No, this is mine and I set up the agents as seats under my account. So when verse is reaching out to them, they're calling from the agent's office. Okay. And just to clarify for those listening, it is, it's basically like you said, it's an ISA, it's an independent, what do you call it, sales agent, what is it? Yeah, inside sales agent is usually what it is, but really it's a human being in San Diego 24-7. Right. And so the point of this, and we're going to show the dashboard in a minute, but the point is, like, you know, here's the one thing most people drop the ball with the Facebook leads is you need somehow to follow up with them, verse.io, is this company that will call and you've got some stats on this, will call these people like right out of the gate super fast beyond them and try and convert them, right? So yeah, let me finish setting this up. So this entire thing started with one of the agents that we were running ads for. We switched them from, we switched them from an ad format that collected very little contact data to a format that collects a tremendous amount of contact data. So this agent's response to that was, I don't think this is working because there's too many of these leads that aren't in my range that I want to work. So what I said was, okay, fine, I'm not going to, you can't convince somebody that the lead quality is there. And to be able to explain why the only reason you think the lead quality isn't there is because you have all these data points, you have all this data on every single lead. And there was always a percentage of those leads that were not going to be any good. A solid half of all leads never going to talk to, right? That's just pretty typical. And so that's what this was. So this project was, I spent the weekend, built a bunch of spreadsheets, downloaded all the leads, analyzed all the leads. And quite frankly, I was shocked. I was shocked that the quality was way better than I thought they were. And so I posted it on Facebook and I just started the conversation of, hey, listen, these tools work. I'm not doing anything special. I'm just putting these tools together and I'm putting these things out. So we can go ahead and show exactly what I'm doing. Okay, cool. Let's swap views here. Let me attempt to bring up this screen. We're going to share the ad examples, the Facebook stuff here. There we go. Let me go into presentation mode. And let's, all right. Let's cool. We can keep us on there for now. We can go full screen. All right. Yeah. So these are the two ads that we're primarily running. The one on the left is more of a long term. We'll run that for 30 days. Typical spend on something like this is about $400. We try to do between $15 and $20 a day. Any less than that and Facebook's algorithm does not have what it needs to learn, to learn how to present your ads to the right people. If you're doing Facebook ads and you're spending a dollar a day or $5 a day, it takes a really long time. So your lead quality is, it's going to take a long time for Facebook to show it to the right people. On the right hand side is a just listed open house type of ad. So these are single property ads were for the most part we're copying and pasting the MLS description. The overwhelming majority of it will be under the fold. So it'll just say show more, but we pack the emojis on the top that you see there. And I didn't post this, but anybody looking for every single emoji in the world, emoji pdia is free and you just type in the topic and you'll find all kinds of emojis. So Facebook changed their marketing last year. They removed a lot of interest targeting and they made it a lot more difficult for housing. And it was really kind of a, it was well, people were targeting specific zip codes and age ranges and sex and things like that. And that's obviously not legal in the housing space. So what I've listed here is a list of the targeting that we use. We don't use every single one on every single ad, but we will swap them in and out. We've got some, you see there's some renter things in there. People that are going to Trulia or that like Trulia or Zillow. Those are typically people that are searching for houses. The home insurance was one that we threw in there that I thought worked pretty well. The listing service was one that I hadn't seen people using, but we ended up throwing in there. Yeah. And by the way, real quick, just in case anybody missed that to Scott's point in terms of Facebook changing the targeting options, a lot of people have that headline like, you know, hey, if you can't target well on Facebook anymore, well, not true to prove that point. These are what you're showing right here is interest based targeting still available on Facebook. So those are indicators of interest in buying or selling a home. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I try to get tricky with the renters insurance and renting and apartments.com and things like that to try to get in front of people early because this ad on the left hand side is really just a stop paying your landlord, pay yourself kind of thing. So the ad cost, the actual cost per lead that comes out, it varies widely, it varies widely by area, by state. I typically, when I'm talking to, when I'm talking to realtors and I'm giving, I'm trying to set expectations for what they can see, what they're going to see for their spend because that was the other part of this is, this is the agent spend. So if the agent spending, if I say $400, they give me, they send me $400, all $400 of that goes towards this ad spend and I'll kind of explain how we deal with the respo thing in a second. But I usually tell them you can expect leads to be $12 or less. It's not unusual at all to get leads under $4. In the numbers that I'm going to show you, our average lead cost over almost 350 leads was just under $7. And then what I started doing differently is you'll see on the bottom of the ad where it says learn more. And that's a great call to action when you're doing these types of ads, learn more, it's a really high click through rate. For a long time, I used to run Facebook lead ads and lead ads are an opportunity, it's a lead capture, it's a lead capture mechanism in Facebook, native to Facebook that allows the consumer to, well, sometimes they don't even know that they gave you their information, but they don't have to leave Facebook. So on a lead ad, in some cases, they could click learn more and they don't even know that me as the advertiser just received their name, their email address and their phone number that's in their profile when they signed up their profile. It doesn't necessarily mean that contact information is good, but I switched to that to a long form lead form because I was curious to see if it would impact, how it would impact my conversion, right, because we were generating those leads. So when I was doing lead ads, we added two qualifying questions. So I put as many hurdles into the lead ad as we could. So we did ask them, do you have a pre-approval letter and what's your time frame to move? This is on the lead form. Do you want to go to that now? Well, that's lead, that's the lead ad form, but I switched the lead ads. So this entire campaign, this entire campaign goes to a landing page. So I'm actually taking them off Facebook. So yeah, you can go. So this is a company called lead pops. There are also a lot of San Diego. Hey, can I interrupt real quick? Yeah. Sorry, if I'm killing your flow. No, no. But I'm curious, because you said you got away from the lead ads on Facebook, which auto fills and auto populates a lot of the information. Maybe I missed it because I'm running the show here, but was there a specific reason why was it quality of leads? For instance, you wanted more data upfront, less leads, more quality. Yeah, exactly. You know, when you're doing these things, it's funny. If you've got an ad in your Facebook stream, they're trying to sell you a large quantity of leads at a very low cost, I'm trying to earn business out of these leads. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to ruin my relationships by bragging about one dollar leads that are absolutely no good. So I'm always trying to put more hurdles and make it harder for the consumer to make it through the gauntlet, so that hopefully, theoretically, on the other side, you're measuring their level of motivation is significantly higher than if they accidentally pushed a button and you got all their information. So that was the reason. So we went from collecting five data points to 15 data points and this is called lead pups. I don't know if you've had Andrew on here. If you haven't, oh, you have. Well, yeah. Okay. No, really smart guy. I love intelligent business owners that are always thinking forward on these things. So all this is, is this is out of the box. I turned on the super footer, which is the whole thing underneath the zip code. That improved our conversion. That's just default. Oh, let's see. Right here. Yeah. So this is the landing page essentially the lead capture form. Yeah. If you shut this off, it would only be everything above how this works. Right. You know, it's funny. I, because I've been around Leapops for a while as well. I don't actually recall ever seeing this. That's actually really awesome. Well, so what's really cool is that's very, that's animated. So the actual computer and the little phone pops in and the chat box pops up and the name in there is the actual name of the real estate agent. They work for Keller Williams this, so this campaign actually surprised me the most because this is in Northern California. So this is in a very high cost area. And it did really, really well. These leads actually did come in under $4 and at the conversion on those were pretty good. So we threw a background image. That background image I actually took off of the agent's website. So that was their hero image. I threw that back there and that was it. And so that's the form that people are landing on. So what they'll do is they enter in their zip code and then it's going to swipe. It's going to swipe right, right? And it's going to do that 15 times. And all of this is mobile optimized as well. Absolutely. Yeah, you're only going to see all of this. If you're on a desktop, if you're on mobile, all you really see is the form. Okay, got it. Very cool. Nice. So that's cool. So that's a lead capture form from lead pops are good friend Andrew over there who's all about conversion optimization. Preach on my brother and these are going to go through some stats quickly. Yeah, so this is the next step. So that's the lead capture. This is lead contact, right? So as soon as you capture the lead, you need to contact them. So what I did is I started using Versaio. They were agentology. They were real estate, they were real estate exclusive until last year. And then they started, they started doing a mortgage. Couple of the cool things that I, that I, I really appreciate about Versa. I didn't change any of their scripts. So you have the ability to go in there and change the scripts on what kind of conversations and what kind of text gets sent out to the consumer. I decided to just go out of the box and see if it works. So this is, this is a little snapshot. So what versus, again, their live people in San Diego 24 seven, this, they, they go here from Zapier. So from directly from lead pops, they get zapped directly over to Versaio. They also get sent to our CRM and they'll go in a home bot, which I'll show you in a second. So this is a little 30 day screenshot. We're not running any ads right now. But I just checked the last 30 days and this is pretty consistent with what our numbers are. They are responding means that they contacted somebody. So the lead responded. That's 49, 51%. That's pretty good and that's pretty normal. I find that when I'm doing organic, organic leads off of my website, find my way home. Your responding rate is going to be a lot higher on organic. But still, this 50% number is pretty, pretty amazing to me. Now, here's the really, the one that I really like is the qualified rate. Now, qualified for Versaio really only means that they reached the person. They verified that they were a real person. They know they filled out the form and they're interested in what we're selling. It doesn't mean that they actually qualify. It just means that it's a live body that we can now talk to. So one out of pretty consistently, we're seeing about one out of five leads, not responded leads, one out of five leads were getting qualified, 33 into the 163. It's a little bit over 20%. So that's pretty amazing. The other thing that I think is really, really interesting and why I love Versaio look at the 49 number that you were circling, those are leads down below underneath. Yeah, that's when the lead came in. So half of our leads came in after hours. And because Versaio is following up on them 24-7, so I don't have any screenshots of this, but I just saw this lead. So as I was working on this, I'm kind of paying attention to some of these numbers a little bit. And so we had a lead that came in on the 18th Versaio, they came in at 9.45 at night, okay? So it came in at 9.45 at night, Versaio got a hold of them. They want to buy in the next one to three months. They have money down, they have a 7.40 plus credit score, and they wanted to get set up on an IDX drip. And I'm like, okay, that's fantastic. Well, two days ago, they responded to Homebot. And now they want to see listings in a specific zip code in Homebot. And that lead came in at 9.45 at night, 10 days ago. So let's take a pause here, because we got a lot of info flowing, and I'm loving it. So once again, folks, I don't know how I would say this. I would say, look, if you're going to try and really make Facebook ads or paid ads work online for yourself, this is one of the areas, if you will, of the secret sauce. If there is such a thing, and that is, you need somebody to be able to respond to these leads in a timely manner. And there's various levels based on budget you could do. Obviously, texting, you can automate that, some CRM, some Zapier integrations. Scott, as mentioned, is using verse.io, which is live, human, outbound. And you're looking, you're seeing kind of the response rates with that. We got a question real quick from somebody. Let me just throw it up there. Can't see who it is. Hey, would love you to accept the StreamYard request so we can see your name. But I know you talked about per lead. Can you speak to, and you don't have to be specific? Because, by the way, I'd be curious to know with the lead ad spend. Obviously, you're doing this for a variety of different agents. Can you talk to that question about spend? Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I think we actually, we covered this a little bit earlier when we were talking about getting the ads to work. I typically don't like to run an ad for less if we're going to do it daily. I don't like to do it for less than $15 to $20 a day for a minimum of five days. But what the ever, well, I call them evergreen ads, but it's really the rent versus buy kind of type of ads. It's really the first time home buy your ad. That's the one that somebody just texted me. I'm sorry. It lost my trade or thought. That one we do about $400 for the 30 days. So it still falls into right around that $15 to $20 a day. And that's kind of a sweet spot. If you can do more up front to get through the learning phase, sometimes that's a good idea. Then you can pull back your, you can pull back your spend once the the learning phases. But you're learning phase. How long is that that you're running? Well, so Facebook, Facebook, this is a Facebook feature. So when you run a new ad, it says learning phase on your ad. They want to see about 25 to 50 leads. You almost never hit it. But if you can push enough traffic and you can get enough engagement, it really, all it really is is the longer you can let it run and the more you spend at it. It'll learn better over time. Is there a time frame that you'll take a look at how an ad is performing and make a decision based on some criteria to stop? Yeah, no, I'll definitely do that within days. So sometimes ads don't work in certain areas. Sometimes the targeting is not right. Sometimes the pictures aren't good. Like if we're doing a single property site, we'll sometimes we'll AB test two, three pictures and we'll shut off two of those within, probably within 24 hours. So sometimes we will, you'll see pretty immediately and this isn't necessarily leads that it's generating. Sometimes you're looking at the cost for traffic and how many clicks there are. So and that just goes back to your copying creative and deconstructing your conversion. All right, let's do this for sake of time because we're getting close to the end of our alignment here. Let's jump into something you mentioned, which is Homebot. Let me bring that back up on the screen and talk about how you're leveraging Homebot in this process. So Homebot has always had a buyer side and they're building that out. They initially built it for homeowners for past clients, but they built in this buyer side. And for the longest time, you couldn't get any data out of it. But last week they introduced the buyer dashboard. So as part of this process, so what Homebot does is it's a, if it's a homeowner, it's a digest that analyzes their equity and how much equity in their interest rate and what they could do with it. If it's a buyer side, it's really it's a set of data research tools that allows buyers to search homes by heat map, time frame, cost per square footage. And then they drill down to a specific zip code that they want to buy in. And then they're requesting to see listings in that zip code. So they didn't have analytics on this until last week. And this really surprised me. About half of our buyers are opening the buyer digest. The engagement isn't great, but I mean, when you think about it, Jeff, if I dumped a thousand leads in there, a thousand buyer leads in there, I'm not doing anything with these guys. That's 600 people are opening, half of the people are opening the email. And about 70 to 90 of them are going through and clicking. So I'm providing value to almost a hundred people a month that I'm not talking to that I don't even see. So I thought that was super valuable. If you're a mortgage lender and you're putting leads in a home bot, they have a new feature that you can put a white label, IDX attached to your home bot when you're running. So I can't see my agents numbers. So those are my numbers, but what I'm doing is I'm taking all of those buyer leads from the Facebook ads and I'm dumping them into the agent's Facebook account or the agent's home bot account for them. So they don't touch it. So I thought those numbers were really, really good. And then I think that last slide is that analysis of all of those leads. So this was what I ended up posting on Facebook that started a lot of different conversations. And the highlights are really where I got excited. We were contacting versus contacting half of the leads, one out of five. They're able to qualify. Our average cost per lead was 637 over those leads. This really surprised me as the credit scores. I'm on the highlights on the right hand side, 57% had over 660 credit score, 23% had over 740. Hey, real quick, too. You mentioned I heard I was watching you're recording the other day. You were surprised at the price range of a particular property. Somebody was shopping for, I believe, right? Yeah. A $9 property or something? Yeah, no, that was actually that landing page that I showed you earlier. So we were able to, that was a $400 spend. We generated, I want to say about 112 leads out of it. 27% of her leads were over a 740 credit score. And over 25% of the leads were looking to buy a home 680,000 in above, 680 to 1.2 million. And that shocked me because I didn't think that demographic was clicking ads on Facebook. Right? I know. I've heard that before. And here's the thing. What people forget is these are just people, right? And two billion people are on Facebook. So there's some high income earners on Facebook. Well, and plus, you know, 1.2 million is a studio flat in San Francisco. Right. I've in the area for sure. We have a, we have a viewer asked me, I'd love to get your take on this. How you compare home bot to homescout, are you familiar with homescout? Not familiar with homescout. Not familiar with them. Okay. So we'll, we'll table that for later probably, and if you want to get with me on that message me in terms of what's the deep differences, a homescout is kind of like your own customized home search platform that you team up with agents and you have a co-branded search based on. That's co-branded. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. This isn't, this isn't anything that you're really, yeah, home bot is quite a bit different. It's definitely not an IDX and it's more consumer direct. Yeah. For sure. And it gets a lot of engagement as we've seen from the numbers. All right. Let's get some magic here real quick. So, so 60, go back to the highlights. So we zoomed through there real quick. 22% had more than 5% down, 14% had more than 10% down. That was encouraging 61% have some down payment that need help. Those are the people that were, and when on the lead form, there's a drop down box. So I have two thoughts about down payment piece on the lead form. First of all, you're only getting the down payment that's available in the drop down box. The second part of that is I suspect that most people want to come in with as little money down as absolutely possible. So I think that they're, I think that a good percentage of those, I want 3% or down leads have more than that. And so that's an education process. Probably the single most important number here is right there on the bottom right, 93% of these leads are not working with a real estate agent. Yeah, that's a big, whoo, that's actually one of these. Yeah, because that's part of this whole game, right, is how do we attract agents by, you know, feeding them with some leads. Yeah, yeah, and so here's, if you go to the blue section, the Facebook to lead pops, this is kind of where our partnership comes in with the agent. So my value proposition is 100% of your spend, Mr agent, Mrs agent goes towards your ads. We will build the ads, we'll create the ads, we'll fix the ads, and we're going to pay to follow up on them. So we cover the cost of verse and you'll see here out of this 300 plus leads, this total spend on these numbers was a little bit over 2200 does and we're right around to grant on verse. So that's about a 5050 and I would argue, I would argue that we are compliant. There's no co-branding on any of the ads, so I don't even know that that's necessary. The ads are all in their name except for the fact that the sponsored buy is, find my way home, my generic home page, yeah, my blog page. So yeah, so this was shocking to me, I mean, this was really cool. What I learned out of this is that I can feel confident that these tools are doing their job. I feel like I have them tied together correctly. These are all tied together by Zapier and Andrew CRM and now I feel like I don't have to spend as much energy on lead quality, I'm going to start focusing on conversion and we're getting ready to implement a new CRM so that I have better tracking and better follow up. And even though we tell the agents that we are sharing these leads with them, quite honestly we don't do a lot of follow up on the leads on our side. We will do, we do some follow up, but it's not nearly what I want it to be. I've spent all of my time filling up the pipeline now at a focus on, but the pipeline is filled with good quality opportunities, I'm confident of that now. So now it's just a matter of getting them converted. Okay, so we have a question and I think we kind of addressed this earlier, so if you've shown up late and by the way, somebody's given me a hard time because I'm saying some person. So it must be somebody I know, just a Facebook user. Yeah, exactly. I can't see you because you got to allow Streamyard to see your name, which I put that already in the comments. But anyway, let's get to the question once again, is, is final lead conversion better with conversion lead or Facebook lead ads, Mr. Scotcheng, what say you? So that's actually a really, really good question and I should have put those numbers up there. So the, the agent that's up north that we were running Facebook lead ads from, verse was contacting about 43% that were responding and 8% were qualified. So now convert that to over 50% contact and 22% qualified, I think that the quality is significantly better and that's what I call conversion. So, so it cost us, there was a, there were almost twice the opportunities when we sent them to when we collected 15 data points as opposed to putting them on Facebook lead ads. And the cost isn't much different. So to clarify, do you think the lead increase in qualities because of the conversion optimization with the lead pops questions or the verse calling or is it really combo of both? I, I think it's the, I think it's the funnel, I think it's the lead funnel, I think it's that hurdle of pushing them, making them jump through 15 hurdles in order to get to you. And then landing out of landing page, it says, hey, we're following up. You're going to get a call from us in a minute. I think that's what it is. Okay. Quite honestly, because I didn't change anything else. I didn't change your copy, creative or targeting. And by the way, whoever this person is, they're asking this question, what about Pinterest? Here's my answer. This is not a Pinterest show. So the only Pinterest does not allow you to do the things we're talking about here today. Okay. So yeah, there we go. The musk, I don't know who that is, but I'm going to find you, I'm going to find you. All right. So listen, I've got your digital bread crumbs following you right now, whoever you are, Facebook user, randomized. All right. Cool, man. So listen, you've been on lead pops for how long now? Well, I've used lead pops for a long time. I use lead pops funnels on my way home for years. So I've used lead pops for a very long time. I started using, and I don't want this to be a commercial, but I do want to, I don't want people to know that there are solutions out there. Everything that I just said, a lot of ears are bleeding right now. They're like, I don't know how to do this. Lead pops will actually do this for you. So they are connected with a verse, so you can pay per lead with a verse instead of, versus pretty expensive. You have to commit to a minimum 200 leads a month. But lead pops allows you to do it one lead at a time. He also has a, he has a really good ad center that are running these ads, and they can reproduce this quality, and they're very, very inexpensive. So if your lead pops customer reach out to them and check with them on that, but I also use them for the website for my brokerage. Yeah, for sure. I think no matter what, and so I'm just showing the lead pops website here, and if Andrew, if you're watching on the replay, whatever shot out to you, my man, he's always evolving and innovating and adapting, which is really great. But the point is this is you've seen a lot. You've had a lot of information come at you. Clearly, Scott has invested the time and the money to set this up as a proper system. So listen, here's what, what irks me about people who show up in this industry with some type of a platform and say go consumer direct. Well, that's easier said than done. And if you're going to succeed with it, you've got to have the right plan structure and various tools in place to actually make that happen, or your experience won't be great. So I just wanted to add that little qualifier. So whether it's lead pops, whether it's verse, whether it's yours, you know, you need a CRM, you need the right tools. So get them. In the system that works as the one that you build and use and monitor, you know, those tools are, I don't know if those are the best tools out there, but for me, they're best in class and they communicate. I like innovative companies. I like companies that iterate fast and are like companies that play nice with others. And all of those tools interact with Zapier. I will not invest in a tool that puts data on an island that I can't access. Wow, like that. That's a cool phrase, data on an island. That should be some companies new tagline. Don't leave your data on an island. That's right. OK, so listen, we are out of time. You've been very gracious before we go on a run mind everybody. If you haven't yet heard coming soon to a book publisher near you, is the brand new book getdisruptordie.com. I actually featured Mr. Shang in there. Yes, he is featured in there for more details about what he's doing with lead capture consumer directing things like that, because he's obviously brilliant and spent more time thinking about this than I think I want to. So that's why I read on him heavily. But if you want to get on the pre-advanced list, you go to getdisruptordie.com. It's that easy. It's got Shang, I can't thank you enough once again for being here, man. Thank you, my friend. I appreciate it. All right, listen, guys, you know what to do. If you want to see the show we do every single week, make sure you click the little button that says remind Facebook if you're watching our YouTube. Hey, subscribe, comment, reach out to me. We appreciate you being here. And we'll see you next week coming back at you with more truth in mortgage marketing. And I'm going to take you out on this. Scott, take care. Have a great one. Bye for now. See you. See you. Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. 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