How to Get Clear On Your Value and Attract More Business

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, everybody, what's up, Jeff? Zimphur. Welcome back to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. So glad you are here. All right. So I am bringing back something I've done occasionally in the past. I want to give you a glimpse inside a small group gathering that we have once a week and I meet with a handful of elite loan officers who are committed to getting results, getting better and holding each other accountable in a safe, respectable, supportive way. And so what you're going to hear on this episode is a clip, not a clip, a call from our private group that we've got are basically our Mortgage Marketing Pro members. And once a month, what I do is I bring in a special guest into this small group. So they lead the call and Q&A takes place and so in the past, I've had top producers Renee Rodriguez, other notable author speakers, coaches and so forth. And on this episode, who you're going to hear is my special guest is Lizzie Hofer. And so this is, once again, our small group, people come to this call with the purpose of improving, right? And so Lizzie, in case you don't know who she is, you should know who she is, first of all. I mean, just some of the accolades that she's received is the number one female loan officer for most loans closed, most loans closed, Scottsman's Guide, number six, number one Latino Mortgage Originator from NAREP, top women's or, number two, top women originators from Scottsman's Guide, the list goes on and on. Units originated, number three, National Mortgage News, most loans closed. I said that, top purchase volume, number seven, Scottsman's Guide. So guys, I had her on the podcast about two years ago, 18 to 24 months ago. And at that time, she was on track to close 800 loans. Well, since then, in 2020, she closed over 1,000 loans. And you're going to hear her give her intro. And yes, she has a large team and yes, she's going to be honest. But by the way, she's the only one who originates those loans. You hear her breakdown, her team structure and so forth on this call. But I want to invite you to this call one is because obviously I want you to learn from it, right? Take notes. I've had people, my members who listened to this conversation and said they need to go back and listen to it two or three times because there's a lot in here in terms of you owning your value, identifying your value, right? And as you'll hear Lizzie described, that you are the prize as the loan officer. And I know some people struggle with that, right? And that's one of the things that I like helping people with is how do you increase your value proposition? One of the ways we do that is by an educational platform teaching agent classes, pouring into agents, helping them grow their business, helping them solve the mysteries of digital marketing. And you hear Lizzie as well. She personally does five or six classes a month herself over Zoom. So anyway, I thought it would be interesting to share this conversation with you guys. If you like it, if you're interested in it and you want to learn more, well, you can always go check out more information at mortgagemarketing.pro if you're interested to learn more about what we're doing over there. So that said, without further ado, let's get into this week's special look, listen inside behind the scenes with my very special guest, Lizzie Hofer. Lizzie Hofer, welcome to the call. Oh, let's forego the long intro. So Lizzie, the reason why I set that up and say that this way is because what I see from you, you know, and the two things I want to talk about here today with you is how do you scale and grow because a lot of people are in that stage of like hiring an assistant. And by the way, Jessica, I see Jessica's here. I thought you had a meeting Jessica to talk about you hiring an assistant. Anyway, she was here. So number one, a lot of people are in that phase of like, how do I go from, you know, 10, 12, 15 loans to 20 to 30, whatever that is, right? I know you've obviously been there and done that more than once. And then secondly, I do want to talk about your YouTube channel because you're getting time and attention, right, from people on YouTube, clearly. So I'd like to talk about a little bit there, but I am grateful for you giving us your time and attention today, Lizzie. Well, thank you, Jeff, I appreciate you. It's always like refreshing when people start off being super authentic. So is the floor mine? It is all yours. I don't necessarily have a script or anything to set you up with, but people are going to ask questions, so put them in the chat or unmute. We got a real kind of active talkative bunch here. So yeah, a bunch of just for those who don't know, give the real quick backgrounder, you know, you know, the usual deal on your stats and all that. All right, guys. So I'm not going to assume that all of you guys know who I am. I am not somebody who studies loan officers in my free time, so I have no expectations there. So just you guys know, I have been in loans since 2002. I became a loan officer in 2008, in 2014. I got fired for my job as a top producer. At the time, my units were 167 units, which, you know, puts me in the top 1%. You know, a lot of things happened to me. One, I channeled a lot of dysfunctional humiliation into deciding to become one of the greatest that there ever were in mortgages. And so I used that and grew my business from 167 deals to 238 deals to 412 deals is high scales, 529 deals, 634, there was like eight something, nine something, we did 1300 loans last year for over 350 million, okay? So I will tell you that I do run a big business. A lot of that is, you know, just like you saw in the motivational video, making the decision to be different and staying super committed to that cause. Now I will tell you that I disagree with FinTech winning. So yes, they win in, if they win in scale and cheapness and fastness all the time, but where they do not compete with us is on expertise actually. So we can be experts at our craft and we can be the big connectors. So I, like my personal perspective is that we can all spend our energy being worried about what's coming, being worried about our competition, or we can figure out how to be uniquely different in the marketplace and where we can provide a shit ton of value. Like that's what we have to be focused on and there isn't a big company that is going to provide the same level of expertise as somebody who's been doing it for 20 years. Let's get real, we're competing with people making minimum wage who just know how to take a loan application, okay? That is not the same, it is not the same. And we know, first hand, the people do not live their life to qualify for mortgage loan. So what we have to be are people that understand the industry can give financial advice, can give wealth advice, can be the real advisors and not just app takers. So if you're somebody who's just used to taking apps, you probably should just join picking hormones now. If you're somebody who gives expertise who's really focused and committed on providing value, well then you will have a job, okay? And we will actually still make the big bucks, right? That nobody wipes out the best financial people. It's all the middle people, okay? So decide to be the best. So scaling business is fairly simple, so is marketing. And it's on the same principles, it's defining core values for your business. So it's deciding what we do here. So in my business, we help first-time home buyers. Right, we handhold it with the process, huh? We handle it for a second. Yeah. Okay, I want to go back up to decide to be the best. What does that mean to you? Because people often throw around, like be a financial advisor and all that kind of stuff. And that also hit home from yesterday sitting in there, listening to a lot of that. Like there are people, it sounds like you are one of them who are 100% committed to delivering, to being an alternative to a financial advisor in some, you know, from a essence standpoint. So, and I'm not saying that they're going to get like, you know, all that kind of Jeff, all that kind of Jeff's. But from the spirit of like you take seriously the responsibility you have in consulting people on a mortgage, is that for sure. So like I have, so first and foremost, guys, you do need to know about money. You need to know about mortgage-backed securities, how that function, what the world is like when they start talking about inflation, what will that mean to interest rates? Okay, like that's how we make ourselves different. So for me, I am an expert in mortgages. I can tell you what's going on in the marketplace. I can tell you what's going on in the economy, how it's going to impact interest rates. I can look at a 30 year fixed mortgage and tell you like if you did X number of things on your credit, this is how you're going to optimize your interest rate. This is how we get mortgage insurance down and I'm going to compare it with three different programs, just to make sure that we are getting you in the right program. Not to mention, I can explain things like ROI, like hey, your minimum cash investment is going to be $20,000. This house is $400,000. The market's appreciating at 5% at a minimum, right? You will have 100% return on your investment in one year. That's the way I speak to people. It is financial management, guys. Mortgages are people's number one liability and number one asset that they will owe. You guys have to take that seriously and that's a baseline. Like that's my opinion, that's a baseline. When I say that we're going to be the best, I'm talking all kinds of things. Like when people come to me for advice, they're coming to me for advice on how to repair their credit. What should their budget look like? What do I believe is a successful pathway to not being house broke? I identify their biggest challenges, their biggest fears, which is what I was going to tell you guys about defining who your client is and your core values, like what your business does. I know my first-time home buyers, I know they don't understand the process, I know they're scared about their credit, they don't have a lot of funds, and it is my job to teach them how to save it, how to budget for it, what assets will get them there faster, and what type of loan programs will achieve their goals. It is financial planning, it is financial management, and that's what I consider myself, and if you watch my channels, if you're following my social, I have a lot of people who tune in, because I explain really big financial terms in a way that people can digest. Right, and I have lots of loan officers, lots of realtors, and a ton of clients. And so this is how we differentiate ourselves. The guy who's the guy at Quickin is not going to compete with me, he's not the expert. True, okay, thank you very much for that. I'm seeing a couple questions come in, but keep going on your thread. You said you served as your primary client first-time home buyers? Yes, so I guys niche down as much as possible, because it's way more effective in marketing and way more effective for building a team, truthfully. So I deal with primarily first-time home buyers, and real estate, buyers, okay, that's who I market to, that's who I serve, that's it. And how do you draw the line in the sand, though, with that? If I did every first-time home buyer in Phoenix, I don't have enough staff to do it, that's why I draw the line. I'm not saying I don't do investments or refinances, I just don't market them, and my process and systems, my training, my financial advice, it's all to first-time home buyers, it's easier, and you get better by focusing. Right, got it. By the way, guys, if you got questions to start putting them in, I can see one question, was do you use mortgage codes or something similar? Yes, I use mortgage codes. Okay, there we go, Nick, that's for you. All right, so first-time home buyers, that's who you serve, that's what you're all about. Is there any specific, we'll get to YouTube channel, I guess, we'll kind of bounce all over the place, but your content, all that kind of stuff is all focused on attracting that audience, it's answering their questions. So first and foremost, once you decide who you're helping, you have to identify what their biggest problems are, what their biggest fears are. And what have you discovered are the biggest fears and problems of first-timers? It's like I just said, so credit assets, they don't know the process, they're scared of being house poor, a lot of millennials saw their parents go through bankruptcy, go through a foreclosure, go through a short sale, these are their biggest obstacles in home ownership. And they're fearful. Yeah, absolutely, that's probably a number one emotion for everyone buying in this market. Okay. Guys, you have to also understand what the news is saying, right? The news is talking about a housing bust every five seconds. Like the other day, there were 22 different headlines about how the bubble has burst in and the housing market is taking. Okay. Your clients are going to be asking you these questions. And if you are one or two follow-up questions away from falling apart, it tells you that you need to do more. If you expect the big bucks, if you expect to be in business, like for a very long time, you have to take the craft of knowing all of the data, the market, the industry, you, that has to be your passion. So we have a question about how your team is set up. How do you manage the leads apps and control your, like, where do you come into the process and where do you step out? Yeah, so I read it. So it's hard because my team size, so I'm, it's weird because in loans, people consider themselves like a loan officer with a team and then a brand, the team, like, I'm a branch at this point. Like, I just hard to explain. I am the only person that originates loans. So like, all the leads are originated by me. All the relationships are mine. I talk to every client, but I don't do every part of a loan. So like, I would not compare myself to somebody who like does all of the apps themselves does all of this, right? So I am a branch. So how it happens is I have a team of people who take and intake leads. They follow up on needs list. They take applications. They run to use. I have another set of people that pre-approved that client and then I have processors that take it from contract to close all the way. Got it. I have about 30 people. Well, I have 30 people in my branch. Not everyone works on my team. I have about 25 people that work on my team between openers, processors, you know, sales like reps, right? So I have loan officer assistance that are licensed. I have six sales loan officer assistance that help with leads and pre-approving. And we close about 88 loans a month. That's the average. Got it. Are you using any DPA with first-time home bars? It's generally a program that I show them. But again, when you're talking about expertise guys, a lease down payment assistance where I am from is not free. It has a three year recapture period and the interest rates in the mid fours and the rates that actual fees are about $1,500 higher than a regular loan. So oftentimes what we're doing is we're showing them an option without and then showing them an option without us giving them a credit towards a cost. So that's one way to outsell that guys. And your number one source of first-time home buyers is what? Real estate agents. How many and do you maintain those relationships yourself primarily? Thank you. So I have five big accounts and I have a database of three thousand agents that read my newsletter to an end to my social media. And last I checked with you, you were doing some type of advanced or classes or something, weren't you? I teach a bunch of Zoom calls. So I used to do in-person live events but with COVID that's become difficult. So now I just do a lot of Zoom events. So I probably teach five or six lunch and lunch. Do you guys hear that? Five or six. Yeah. All right. That's a lot of what these people here do by the way as well. Class, virtual and in-person. Okay. Want to talk YouTube? Sure. Let's talk YouTube. I'm going to do a screen share and bring up your channel here real quick. No, Janelle had a question. Yeah, it was about the down payment assistance. Oh, it was. Okay. Cool. Yeah. We got Kevin. Mike drop. Are you getting involved with a lot of the CDs at all? I do. I do a CD call with every client. Good question, Kevin. So that's 88 calls a month roughly, right? Yeah. What do you, what's your average hours in a given day or week? It depends on what's going on in my business, truthfully. So there's lots of times where I'm working 35 to 40 hours and then there's other times where I'm working 78. Like this week, I've worked like the last two weeks. I've worked a lot because my production managers was on her honeymoon and she took 10 days off. So that was pretty fun. No. I can imagine. All right. So Emmett, I'll get you a question in a second. Let me get to sharing her YouTube channel here. There we go. Desktop. All right. So I think last time I had you on the podcast, it might have been like 18 months ago or so. But if I remember correctly, you were just kind of getting going with that. Is that right? Two years ago. Yeah. About two years ago. That's how long we did it. Yeah. Yeah. It was roughly that. Anyway, okay. So we have a handful of people here who do YouTube as well. So here's the channel. Awesome. Tell us for anybody who is considering YouTube, you've obviously got a nice head start. I'm looking at your view count. Obviously, what have you learned so far about YouTube that maybe you could pass on to anybody who's considering it? Yeah. So YouTube is a commitment. No, stop. So you have to have a good scheduling time for like when you're going to record your videos. You have to have a process for who edits the videos, how they put them on. You want your, there's like some really good books like Daryl Eaves wrote a really good book on YouTube specifically. So do that. Got right here. Yeah. So I mean, for me, I will tell you the truth. I'm not as consistent as I should be on YouTube. Like there's several months where like I don't post any videos, right? Which and so like I just posted a video after not posting a video for a week after being really inconsistent. So like my view count is down. But like, you know, the video that I just posted, it was Wednesday will probably get like 2000 views, right? Which is pretty standard for my channel. And then like the best ones I have have almost 100,000, you know? And so it depends on the topic, but like the topic is like how to understand APR. You know, it's not like it's not super sexy stuff. It's very niche stuff that first time home buyers would have questions on. Yeah. You know, I was listening to somebody the other day and they're talking about like the philosophy or how you approach YouTube. And actually it was Kyle C. Graves and I love Kyle. Yeah. And he said that one of the things he learned was he stopped when like when it really shifted for him is instead of making videos for everybody or a mass audience, he was making a video for one person. And I'm looking at your content. I'm thinking like, hmm, that looks like it resonates as well. First time home buyers, right? How to qualify for a mortgage. Should you buy new rules for FHA, student loan debt? Yeah. And honestly, like I had a ton of moments about the very beginning of the year, like all of my videos were getting 9,000 to 10,000 views. And I got COVID in March and I just haven't been as consistent as I wanted to be. So I was like out for like almost all of April. So like it is just what it is. But like my I'm going to get re-committed to doing it. My like I don't I generate probably like I don't know like 10 leads a week on social media. So it's not a ton. I primarily do this because it serves my real estate agents and my database. Do you know what I mean? And that is where I see like, you know, 30% of my business. You know, so it's like everything I do has multiple purposes. But honestly, like if you were getting 10, like 60 leads, like quality, because these are leads that guys like also on social media, the quantity isn't that many, but they're all ready to go and they all want to buy. So like these people pre-approved, they buy with us, they're super committed, they're loyal because they found me and they chose me, you know. So the quantity isn't as many, but if you are getting like 50, 40 high quality leads a month, I mean that's top producing lead source. Yeah, and the conversion rates high as well. Like you said, hey, hey listeners, it's your friend, Jeff. I hope you're doing well. I wanted to pop into your ears for just a moment and remind you that if you're looking to quickly and easily get more agent referrals, more quality agent relationships and do it without chasing, do it without pay to play and do it with a predictability and a system that works every single month like clockwork creating conversations between you and real estate agents that you choose who you talk to, you get to decide who you work with or not, but one that actually generates referrals for you. Every single month, so long as you follow the proven planning system, if that is something that you're interested in and if you're looking into leveling up your digital marketing game, well, perhaps you'd want to check out the mortgage marketing pro membership. Every single month, we've got loan officers, teaching classes around the country, getting in front of agents at scale, having conversations at scale and driving agent referrals. You know, in business, there's a concept I learned years ago from Tony Robbins and the two things I learned were, number one, if you want to improve your results, get better results or more results more quickly, you need to apply the principle of leverage. Leverage means the ability to do less and accomplish more with leveraged activities and then the second principle is compression, right? To reach more people in less time and the concept of talking to real estate agents instead of one to one, you go group. So imagine if you instead of were one to one marketing to real estate agent, once the two Z, you were able to actually consistently get in front of 10, 20, 30 agents every single time you want to do by hosting a class, virtual learn person. And therefore, your conversation goals would happen much more quickly because you're using the principle of leverage with compression, which combines with a law of large numbers, you're going to get better results more quickly. So if you want to learn more about how do we do that, go to mortgagemarketing.pro, check out the short video. This may be for you. That's up to you to decide. And now back to our regularly scheduled program. All right, so we're going back and forth a little bit with the questions because that's sometimes how it rolls here. People take a question, put it in. That's awesome. So Janelle, who I know she's running a team, we want to unpack a little bit about, and you can probably see her question there, how you started managing quality standards as you brought out new team members, nervous face. Yeah, how do you keep the quality, right? So I lean heavily on technology. So I have a sales force that is built out very extensively, you know, to make sure that consistency is there. So I'm a big believer in that that cost me like $80,000 a year to maintain. But for me, it's so important because we run a really big business and you mess up enough deals for one account, you lose it. So that's high maintained quality standards. It tracks conversions, response times. It, you know, there's a standard of communication and professionalism because all the templates are drafted. But also it comes back to the core values. Like for me, everyone knows what they are. We follow them. If you're ever going to be like written up or anything, it's going to be based on a core value. And I'm very committed to making sure that people are successful, but I do have a three strikes your outrule. So like, let's say you did something, you messed up on a client situation, we've talked about it. Great. It happens again. We're going to have a formal write up. And if it keeps happening, like unfortunately, like for me, it's just like it's three times. Like it never really ever gets past one or two, truthfully, thank goodness. But sometimes it does. And when it does, people know that I will fire them. And it's not, there's no hard feelings. I just don't believe in pushing a square peg through a round hole. I don't get mad. I'm not like losing my shit. But I am just super clear. And people know how to win here. Like they know how to win here. Do you do any pre-hiring assessment tools, discs or anything like that? No, I'm not going to lie. No. I was trying to think about like I do have a unique hiring process though. And I feel like if people are willing to go through it, then they're generally good. So like if I'm hiring a processor, they turn in their resume. They have to turn in a cover letter for an underwriter to explain conditions. I want to see their thought process. Right. So like, just that is like enough to opt people out. And then if it's a salesperson, they have to record a video of themselves explaining why they'd be a good candidate. And so like just then in there, like lots of people just don't apply or they don't move past that point. But that's generally speaking. And then for me, like when I interview people, I like to think I'm a good gauge of character. So I ask questions like, you know, tell me about yourself. You know, what's the like, what's the one thing that people normally get wrong about you, right? Like it's like the biggest misconception. And whatever they tell me is the absolute truth, right? But people will tell you their worst quality in that question. And it's like, can you live with that or not? You know, my interviews by the time they get to me, they're very informal. I normally have snacks or I have coffee, I'm trying to get them to feel like they have the job because I want to see what their natural like habits are. So I mean, like, that's as far as I go. Got it. Okay. Good stuff. All right. Some more questions coming in. Ryan, you saw my message back to you. We got to get you people talking. Let's go, Mr. Miracle. Hey, hey, Lizzie. Thank you once again for coming on today and providing so much value to the rest of us. But so yeah, I've been watching you, Kyle and hobby here for some time now. Trust trying to see if there is an empty space of vacuum there. I know Kyle's in my neck and the woods. But how long did it take for each of you? I know you may not know their metrics, but generally speaking, how long did it take for you guys to have enough people show up on the lives to make it worth your time? I so I feel terrible because guys, YouTube for me is is is like a hobby. If I hate to just make that sound, I don't want, like I do get a lot of leaves and yes, I have a lot of subscribers and yes, all the things. But I'm not like they are. They're like hardcore committed, have the plan, the downloads, the all the things. So I know that for me, it took like 23 videos for me to actually get traction with my channel. And then like I think that you should just start doing lives even if there's like five people that show up, that's five people you're talking to for 30 minutes. They'll grow from there. I would promote them to your database. I would I mean, some like I get some upward anywhere between like 30 and 100 people. That's not like oh my god numbers, but I still do them every week. Like that's the one thing I have been consistent on is the YouTube lives because I always get a lead. Like every single one, I get one at least still. So you did 20 or so videos before my channel started even getting traction, yeah. So is that static videos or is that live you did before certain videos? I just started doing lives. Gotcha. Thank you. I know. But if you if you really want to know, both Kyle and Javier are like the nicest people ever. If you message them, they will give you all the information. Yeah. And Kyle's not an active loan officer, just so you guys know. So like, it's it's not like you're competing for the same real estate agents, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have him on as well. Yeah. Kyle's just a great guy. Okay. So I'm going back to the questions here. And guys, if you just want to unmute and ask your question, go ahead. Come on. This is your chance. This is why we're here. James, I'm going to take your question. Credit challenge borrowers, how do you handle them? Do you put them on a credit repair program? Or what do you do? Send them to Sam Parker. I know. We have our own people that work on credit plans. Yeah. We just follow up on them. All right. Three questions in one, but all right. Well, let's go with that one. What's the three questions in one? So Amat, go ahead. Hi. First of all, you're you're doing awesome out there. I've been following your computer content for a while. Three different questions. First of all, production tiers as you were bluffing through, you know, 20 million, 40 million, 60 million. How did your team make up changed throughout those transitions? So first and foremost, you guys have to track the number of leads, purse, and then leads to clothes, right? So for me, it's about, I mean, I every LP one can manage about 20 leads, active leads at a given time, so that they're actively following up on. And then an LP too, so like, people who take it from contract to close, their metrics are 15 to 25 in their pipeline, depending on experience. And then my pre-approval team can do like three to five, depending on experience. So depending on what that looks like for you, you know what I mean, in terms of leads and closings, the course says it's like five loans, closings for every one person you have. But you have to track it. For me, it was, I always hire by leads. So if I'm getting more leads, I'll hire, even if I don't have the closings. So I'm more of a leading metric person versus a lagging, so I hope that helps. And there's a really good book called Traction, it's by Geno Wickman. It's a really good book on metrics, so that way you guys can like run the numbers on yourselves. And then it'll help you figure out what you need to scale. So like, most of you guys just have to get better at converting the leads you have. If you had one or two percent more conversion, you'd actually probably hit where you want to be in terms of goals. But then once you're past like that, then it's about, okay, I need X number of referral sources. So like the average realtor does a half a transaction a month. So I needed 42 realtors to start to get to close 15 to 20 deals, right? So like, that's what I was going for. So you just, you, you want to be aware of what that looks like. And you know, how many leads they're producing. And then eventually, you're going to just top grade over and over again. And I top grade with employees too. Like, I'm always hiring at any moment in time. So like, we are always open for jobs because chances are, I'll grow or somebody won't work out or somebody puts in a notice or whatever. So just like the interviewing every week. Good stuff. Go ahead, Adam. Okay. You touch on some of this stuff. I'm also a YouTuber. And like I said, it's set in your channel. Did you find a lot of your collaborations with Javier and Kyle and those, use those to slingshot your, your view counts and where are your views coming from? I know you said it's a hobby. I don't know if you really track that kind of stuff. So I never did a collaboration, I haven't done a collaboration with Kyle. I used to, so how I did YouTube guys is Javier wanted a loan officer on his lives on Saturday. Like that's what it was. He wanted somebody to answer all the lending questions. And then like, you know, I mean, it ended up being that like, I would do these lives. And then I would literally spend two hours after the live answering all of these DM messages that I would get. And then I was like, well, this is like very not time efficient. These people aren't even living where I live. They're like all over the country. And I would feel obligated to respond to them. So then I was like, well, I'll just start making my own channel and then answering these questions and then sending them. So now if somebody asks me, I just hit the link and just send them the question. So that's how it started with me. I wish I had you, I wish that at the time that I was doing that, that I knew I wanted to pursue YouTube because my channel would be in a completely different place. And like recently, Javier did a couple of lives with me. And that was super fun. And it definitely does help the channel. So I would definitely say like getting like a Jeb Smith, Christina Smallhorn, like there are people that love to do collaborations all the time. So I don't know if you've reached out to them. Kyle will do a collab. Like there are people that will just do them. I have it personally done them. Javier is a real try actively work like I'm his loan officer. That must be a hoot. Okay. Emmett, part three or a question. Go ahead. Part three about referral partners. And which is why I'm on Jeff's thing here. Basically, you know, I know the core and others teach about targeting realtors for production. And I find here in Florida, it just seems like your top 5% are all Zillow people. Like they just have a Zillow. And then we all know who the Zillow is. So did you target the top realtors? Like where did you target them? You said you're looking for 40 of them. I mean, it's hard to know where to aim because they're just such a, just like you said, half a transaction apiece. Like where do you start? And what do you target? Your title companies will keep track of people's productions. You generally want to go for people who are closing deals. I'm going to say something and it's going to sound really obnoxious. But I just, the thing is, it's the truth. I made myself the prize. And like I market myself as like working with me is like the prize. And so it's different now in my marketplace because like, like I literally walked into a meeting yesterday and there's 30 vendors and there's four lenders to this one account. And like two of the other people refer to me as the queen of mortgages. And I laugh, but I'm like, you know what? My marketing is totally working. You know, it's like that's what it is. It's like I come in and I give them a full economic breakdown of what's going on. I know real estate stats like the back of my hand. And then all of a sudden, I'm like the valued presenter at these real estate meetings. And people can go, oh my god, she's the number one female loan officer or oh my god, she's the number one Latino loan officer. Or they just have these things to be like people like status. So you have to figure out where you can be number one in your marketplace and own that. So there's a really good book called the 22 immutable laws that's marketing. It's like one of the best books I've ever read in life. Like, and I read it and I was like, oh cool, where can I be number one? Where can I do all the things? And like, what's funny is I'm not actually the number one female loan officer anymore as of last year because the better mortgage now is like, but it doesn't matter because I was first marketed. Everyone still calls it. And now I market myself as America's favorite, like a female loan officer and people, it's still the same thing in their minds. Like, it doesn't matter anymore. Well, there's a lot of lessons in there as well. First of all, you decided to claim that. Like, you know, we've all heard the old cliche with branding is no one's going to come along and name you the number one loan officer. Like, you have to claim it, you know, and in love, I love that you bring that up as because it really makes me think all of us here, I think to some degree, are wandering generalities. Right? I mean, good. I think a lot of people are afraid to niche. They're afraid to be confident. They're afraid to be bold. You know, part of the difference between giving information and expertise is an opinion. Like that video you watched at the beginning of it was like, are you tired? You need to do this. They get in your face. And I have never been, I'm not shy about having an opinion. I'm not shy about being myself because I would rather people opt in fast or opt out fast. Like, it being neutrals the kiss of death for business and marketing. Hey, man, you can't be for everybody. No, Nick, are you raising your hand? Head on mute. Hey, Lizzie, I've been following you for a while. I really love your stuff. You said you, you know, you picked a niche. You picked, it sounds like just one niche. Was there, so I guess like two parts. One, why first time home buyers and have you considered more niches or do you think that would dilute your marketing? So I think it would dilute. I chose, so in that book, the 22 mutable, this is where I got niching actually from. I just, like, it went full circle for me when I mentioned the book. So it says you need a target market that is so big that you couldn't possibly do all of them in your marketplace. And that's why I chose first time home buyers. And I think that the needs that first time home buyers have are typically the needs of like a second home buyer or like somebody who's buying a move up house, you know, they're, they're along the same lines. And I just, I don't, I'm not going to get into other niches because if this is working for me, and I believe that if something's working for you, you just improve on it 30%. So another way I scaled guys is I look at what's working for me, and this is 100% the rule, like every quarter. I get all of my account pyramid. I figure out my best accounts. I double down on what I mean. Number one marketing sources. I double down. And then the least profitable accounts and or marketing strategies, I 100% duck without question. What do you, when you say accounts, are you talking about people? Yes. So are we talking individuals or are these brokerages? Brokages, people, like I'm not saying, hey, we're not friends anymore. I'm just saying, hey, I'm not going to spend marketing dollars with you anymore. You know, and or I'll just put them on my marketing list and just focus on other people. I do the phase out. Yeah. Do you slowly just do the, you know, the back dance, the moonwalk, or do you actually have that conversation of be like, hey, you know, we're in a marketing relationship. I have the conversation. And like the thing is, I really, I'm a very like good communicator. So if like I check these things all the time, like literally, I check leads daily, I check leads weekly, I check leads monthly, I'm always going over 12 months rolling calendar, like I am hard for with data. And so I have these conversations on a red. It's like, hey, like what can we do to be earning more leads? What can I do to be, you know, providing more value? What can I do? Right? To be the best partner for you. And if we're having this conversation and nothing is changing and I'm not providing more value to you, again, like I said, I don't believe in squeezing a square peg through a round hole. We're just not the right fit. It isn't about like, oh, you didn't give me enough leads. It's like, hey, dude, I'm not effective in your place. Yeah. So let's talk for a moment about the marketing spend. And I know last time we talked, you were doing some, I do a lot guys. I spent like $50,000 in marketing annually. No, a month. Got. And so how does some of you are mind blown, but get this. You have to spend money to grow your brand and business period. And like sometimes the easiest, like entryway into a top team is to volunteer to pay whatever their spend is, right? And if you bring in a lot of value, let me tell you, the spend is nothing to what I get back. Like all of my accounts are, like sometimes I make $200,000 a month after all of the expenses. Was it worth it? Yes. Yeah, you really have to look at it from the business. You'd be paying for advertising, etc. If you're running, you know, your plumber, whatever, you're going to run ads, you're going to pay for ads. Now, I think the challenge, though, with paying for leads or co-paying, you know, with realtors is oftentimes it's the relationship that's wrong going in from the beginning, whereas they are looking at you as a place to get, right? And you're replaceable. So how do you address that? Well, again, I am the prize. And also it's your mindset. Like if that was your mindset, like you're just going to go pay and they're going to give you all of your leads, it's not going to work for you. Like it just will not work for you. How I go and approach everything, guys, is I am their business partner. And if I am your business partner, do I expect to like pay half of the bills for the leads that we are both getting? Yes, I do. And I also expect that as my job as your business partner is to do my job above and beyond just taking your apps and closing your deals. Like the way that I'm winning, guys, is that truthfully, I provide more value and more substance than my competition period. Like we were in a room of 30 vendors yesterday and like they're just all complaining. And I'm like, okay, we can sit there and complain and they're going to be real motivated to send us more leads. Or we could say, okay, guys, so here's what I think really works. This would be super valuable to me, right? This is like what would mean more. Like, you know, for instance, they want us to pay for more CE classes. And I'm like, hey guys, you know, I'm going to say something a little controversial here, but it comes from a place of love, okay? The CE classes have very little ROI for us centers. Now, I will continue to pay for the CE classes because you guys are a valuable referral source for me, but just so you know, I consider that a donation to your organization. Like that, it does not do anything for me. But here's what would do amazing things for me, right? I would love it if you guys put some of this content online and allowed for me to play a 30-second video, right, before it plays. Like, if you would allow me to do that, that would actually bring me a ton of more ROI. And I never want to agree with me, and it's a way better approach. And they liked it. Now, the other thing is I know that groups number one thing is recruiting. And so I'm like, hey guys, like, here's one thing way for us to help you recruit more agents. Here's another way for us to help you retain agents, right? And I'm leading the meeting. I am their vendor. Let's get real. I am an affiliate. I don't run their business. But again, like, people are afraid of confrontation. They don't know how to do it correctly. They come from a place of scarcity versus abundance. And people think you're a complaining whiner versus somebody who's advocating and getting what they need. Like, and so you got to just understand your approach is everything and your mindset is everything when it comes to relationships and ROI. If you come into it going like, what am I going to get out of it versus what am I going to bring to the table? You will negotiate poorly, right? Because you won't understand your own value. And you are never going to be taken seriously. Absolutely. You're replaceable. So let me pause here for a second. I'd like to check with the audience. Back to your statement about the prize is you. Like working with me is the benefit. Now, obviously, that is a wonderfully strong certainty of a mindset. And if I can be honest, I think some, maybe some people here, I don't know. I don't want to speak for anybody. Does anybody struggle with that? With, okay, so you see a couple heads nodding. And I just know this from just being around long enough and talking enough L.O.s. It's like they don't necessarily have that mindset. Like, what's so great about me? So you guys, I'll tell you the truth right now. You do not have a strong enough opinion and you do not know enough about the industry, enough about marketing, enough about your business to really be valuable to other people. Like if it's an insecurity, double down on that and get better. Like if you couldn't say absolutely to that question, read more, listen to more podcasts, get more hardcore, like figure out what your agents number want. Just go, hey, how can I provide more value for you? A lot of you guys are too scared to actually ask for the real authentic advice or the opinions of your referral partners and then you get defensive and then want to defend yourself. Like one of the best things about me is like I'm super open to feedback. Like people will be like, hey, you guys totally screwed up on that. And I'm like, oh my god, we did. That's horrible. I'm so sorry. Thanks for not firing me. Let me go ahead of that. And then I'm like, hey, here's how that's never going to happen again. And oh, by the way, I said the client to gift and I said you want to. Like, you know, it's just I'm really open to feedback and people give it to me all the time, like all the time. Yeah. I love it. I just just I know we do talk about that here in the group and that's part of the reason why everybody's here and gets together is we're one of the ways we try and more add more value is it's through the educational content, right, teaching and marketing, social media and all that stuff. But we all, yes, you're right. We all need to get better at that and have a stronger value proposition and be more confident. And by the way, I would also say that if you have a, I don't know, you might feel differently about this Lizzy, but I do think that you having a kick ass process while that sounds like a lot of fluff and hyperbole, people don't know that it's true until they actually go through it. But compared to the average process for most LOs out there, once somebody does experience it, if it does rock, then that is like how to compel you that you can also sell on data. Okay. So Jeff, I would love to talk with you more offline because you and I have opposites spectrum mindsets. So like you're like, no one can sell this. You guys, I like rip out the data from my CRM and I'm like, look, let me tell you the average loan officer will call your lead once. Right. And maybe twice if they're really good, I have 16 touches to follow up, not to mention my average call response time guys is less than an hour for when I get a lead. And I can guarantee it and I can show it to them. Do you think that makes a difference? Yeah. So I think I agree with you that those are all sellable points. And I guess what I'm saying is is that if you don't that data to back it up. Yeah. Right. I can pull it from the CRM like you're like, no, you can't sell unless you can experience it. I'm actually saying, hey guys, like you can physically see this data. And if you pull up the top like 1% in the marketplace, the ones that have the biggest growth year after year are my partners. And I think you can pull them up themselves. What we're trying to do here is to help everybody here have more conversations with the right agents who can appreciate that. Here's what I'm going to tell you right because I want you guys to get this. I don't pick agents based on their production. I pick them based on their like give a shit meter. Like if I meet an agent and they're like, you tell me what to do and I will do it. I'm all on board. I coach agents from the ground up, from the ground up, my number one agent I close 100 deals with for a year, fourth year in the business. Okay. Like you guys, it's about like figuring out how you can sell this stuff. Like most people wouldn't go, they go, well, I don't know how you sell process. Well, how you sell processes, you have to get a system to track your data. Like you have to go, hey, what is my competition doing and can I market this? Like when I read a Harvard study on follow-up, right, you can Google it. But it was like people call people one time maybe twice if they're good, eight times is actually statistically more likely for people to follow up with, right, for people to answer the phone. And after if they answer after six times, right, they're more than likely to proceed with going with you, right? So I'm like, okay, well, I need a system that at least markets to people eight times, right? So I can get maximum conversion on dates, right? So I know this. I use a Harvard study. I create my own process and I go to sell that. You cannot sell things that people are not going to sell the opposite of. So you can't say I have great service because what a no one's going to say I have bad service, right? People are going to say I have great follow-up, but they're not going to have the tangibles which are, by the way, there's this study from Harvard. People do X. This is what we're doing. This is our consistency. This is our pull-through rate. This is our conversion. Here's what my other agents are saying about me in case you want to call them. Like, do you treat this like a job interview? My point is like in order to own being the best, you have to go and seek out what is the best. Like, we all go into different hotels, right? You can, and they all offer the exact same thing. Guys, Motel 6 offers you a bed, a bathroom, made service, cable, a pool, and maybe a continental breakfast, okay? The Ritz Carlton offers you all those things except they're way nicer. It's an experience. People pay attention, right? So what does the Ritz Carlton experience look like for you? And you cannot define it, guys, until you have know what your agents' biggest problems are. Your clients' biggest problems are. And then what you're going to do to fix it, and it cannot be generic. It has to be like bullet-pointed niche down with data that you can support on it, and then you can sell on it, and then you can be the best in that solution. When you are the best in that solution for their problem, are you a gift? Yes. Are you the prize? Yes. That's how you get there. Got it. Of that. That deserves a seriously. I love that. That's so amazing. We need to take ownership of it, and more importantly, have a actual documented system with metrics that we can report on and sell. Otherwise, we're just talking BS. You know, I'm the greatest, I have the greatest service. We close in 21 days. If you have a lot of marketing book, we'll teach you a lot. It's like 100 pages, guys. Definitely go buy it, please. Al Rice and Jack Trout, 22, and Mutable Laws. Yep. Classic. All right, listen, we are almost out of time. So folks, if you have your one pressing with the one question, you wanted to ask Lizzie Hofer, but you never had the courage. Okay, so here is it. It's from Alex. Do you do coaching or do you recommend coaching? Hey, there's a question. I recommend the core coaching. There you go. Recommends core. Okay, so listen, I know you're hourly's way high, so we've already taken enough. I'm so grateful. People, was this worth it? Let's give a little thumbs up wave. Are you grateful that Lizzie came? Seriously, more nuggets per minute than we appreciate it very much. Thank you, Emmett, Alex, Janelle, everybody. All right, so if people want to follow you, they just go to Instagram and follow you there. Check out your YouTube channel and, you know, go out and kick some ass, Lizzie. I think that goes without saying you're going to do that no matter what. Yes, guys, Lizzie with one Z. Okay. With one Z. Okay, got it. Awesome. Okay, everybody, this is it for this session. We will, I believe we back next week, same time, same channel. Get out there. Do some classes. Post your wins of the week in the Facebook group. Let us know what you're doing. And if you need more help, I appreciate you guys. Hey, guys, so there you are. There is a look behind the scenes into what a call would sound like if you were a member of Mortgage Marketing Pro, right? Every single month we have a special guest. This month it was Lizzie Hofer and you've heard her story. Hopefully you were impacted by that as our current members were. You heard her say that she does five to six agent classes per month, mostly over Zoom. Hey, if you've thought about doing agent classes, but are stuck with, well, where do I start? What content do I produce? Should it be CE or not? How do I get butts in the seats? We've got the solution for you, right? The members you heard on this call today are doing exactly that across the country and they're getting fantastic results. Imagine if you could be in front of 20, 30 agents at once instead of one or two, right? And then they schedule time with you on your calendar. How do you do that? You follow a proven system. Want to learn more? Go to Mortgage Marketing.pro. All the details are there. I appreciate you. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and you just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you, agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug-and-play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates, real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top L.O.'s authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere from 8 to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.