How to Get Maximum ROI from Your CRM

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, Listers, what's up, Jeff Simpson for Host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast. Welcome to this episode. Let's get right into it. My special guest this week is Spencer Does About and Spencer has an amazing story and journey, quick background or on that is he is the founder of Hands For Others. He co-founded that nonprofit Hands For Others while in high school to help solve the world's water crisis and engage students in making a global difference. Really cool that he did that. We'll talk a little bit about that. But more importantly is we're going to talk about his new role as founder and CEO of ADM, which is formerly daily AI. You may have heard of daily AI. You may have heard of whiteboard, right, two CRM's that have been in the mortgage space for a number of years. Well, daily AI and whiteboard are now ADM, same team, new brand, superior CRM and Spencer and I are going to unpack this whole conversation around how to really maximize technology. Because a lot of us have technology and don't really maximize or optimize its use. We're going to unpack some of the challenges around that and share some best practices for whatever CRM you're currently using. Listen to this discussion through the filter and framework of where are you perhaps under utilizing that tool. Then of course, you're going to hear a couple of little finer points about some of the unique features and functionality about ADM. This is in by way just really a conversation as I said about leveraging technology for to better serve us, right, not be a slave to technology, but leverage it to what it's supposed to be able to do, which is free us up to work more on the business than in the business. That makes sense. And of course, we're going to put links in the show notes. If you want to check out ADM, it is thinkadmaiudm.com and I hope you enjoy this episode. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show Spencer, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jeff. Great beer. My pleasure. Let's do this for the listeners of many whom I'm sure need an introduction. Who is Spencer does about? What is he all about? Hey, look at what I did there. Who are you? What do you do? Yeah. Well, I am the founder and CEO of a mortgage technology platform called ADM. It was formerly ALAI. We acquired whiteboard CRM and sort of took the best bits of both of those companies and put it into ADM. But yeah, I have not done a mortgage. I've been involved in different real estate transactions. So seeing there's some room to help improve that process through technology and I'm excited to bring some of that to the space. So thank you for that, by the way. I'm very curious though. If we could, I want to start here and kind of, I'm trying to understand your timeline in journey. So how do you go from working in this non-profit hands for others to being in the mortgage space? That's a great question. I think for me, you know, hands for others was essentially a crowdfunding platform before the GoFundMe's of the world existed. So we were giving high school college students the opportunity to raise funds and awareness to solve the world's water crisis. I mean, I guess to make a long story short, we did projects in 17 countries around the world. It really, you know, really took off raised millions of dollars. And for me, I think I loved the, I think we were helping people, of course, is super rewarding. I think for me, I fell in love with just the technology that we had, we were leveraging tech to help solve problems at scale. You know, from there, I think that will, that will a different start-up interest eventually creating a company that was doing predictive data and analytics in the real estate space. So basically predicting when someone would be more likely to sell a home than generating leads and selling leads to realtors with that. And I think through that process, I just, you know, I think what struck me about a realtor is that they're probably one of the few thresholds out there that you can call them day or night and they'll pick up, not knowing who's even calling, you know, like, they don't, they don't, they don't know who's on the caller ID, they're just picking up their phone because we can just speech to real estate transactions that there's a lot of moving parts, it's always stressful and never goes exactly as planned. And I think for me, you know, recognizing that and also selling leads to them and oftentimes getting complaints around those leads sucks, you know, you know, these leads are good for me. Why am I paying for these? My response is always like, great, you know, like, I don't know how we go on this, I just want to provide good leads for you, like, so walk me through that and they're like, well, I got a lead yesterday, I called them today and they haven't called me back yet. And it's like, well, even if you're not leads, you're going to have to touch them five to ten times before anything comes of it. Look, I get, I get it, look, I mean, I am not someone that is disciplined enough to make five to ten follow-up calls. I think very few people on planet Earth are, honestly, essentially when you're dealing with very complex transactions, you know, such as buying or, you know, selling a home. And so I need, it was surprising to me, it wasn't the fact that they weren't making the five, the fifth, sixth, seventh follow-up such point. It was the fact that they didn't have technology that was doing that for them and automating that and helping automate their day-to-day operations and follow-up lead conversion, all that fun stuff. And so, you know, it really gave me a glimpse of the life of a realtor and you kind of threw that life in a loan officer. And candidly, I just saw a lot more opportunity in the mortgage space. I think, you know, there have been innovative platforms that have tried to come in in the real estate world, not really any in the mortgage space. So, just saw an opportunity to bring some innovative technology that hopefully would, you know, help mortgage professionals prevent a better experience to their customers and also improve the quality of their lives and ultimately give them back, you know, time into their days and make sure that those follow-ups that are really hard to do are just taking care of when they're not the worry about it. Okay, so let's just get down to it for the listeners. I'm familiar with whiteboard, daily AI and so when we've got the convergence here and we've got ADM, so you, I think kind of alluded to feeling when you look at the landscape of current CRMs out there specific to the mortgage space, you felt, no, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you felt that basically they were lacking some of the advanced functionality or automations that are available or that you had saw comparatively in the real estate space. I think there's some of that. I think it's more of nothing seen maybe comprehensive enough to me. I think that there's a number of platforms in this space that do certain things really well. You know, like maybe you're great on the marketing content, you know, database nurturing standpoint. I don't have a lead conversion element into it where they're not, you know, texting your leads as they're coming in, you know, maybe they're not integrated with your point in a sale and someone stops filling out an application to re-engage and help that pull through rate. Conversely, there's platforms that maybe do lead conversion side but don't really do, you know, the marketing side well for, you know, for an enterprise or for a big bank or brokerage. And so I think for me what was really interesting to see is that really the only thing that was a total solution was someone that would go out and pay hundreds of thousands, you know, at the team level or millions of dollars at the enterprise level to basically do a custom sales force build or a custom hub spot, whatever platform they chose to really try and bring everything together and integrate it, you know, some of the initial people we talked to as we started developing the product were producing teams that were six different platforms, you know, they had a one doing lead conversion, a platform for the mass texting of the realtors. They had their year-end that was sending out, you know, in process updates, you know, pretty much emails and they had an email marketing platform just, and they're trying to like connect these things through like a Zapier or higher developer or something and it just sort of mind boggling to me that like, wow, there's, you know, there's really just not a solution that's just kind of saying, hey, you know, we're going to be your, you know, your solution for lead conversion, we're going to be your solution for driving people through the application process, we're going to be your solution for, you know, helping your team, all parties up to date, what's going on within a transaction, allowing you to build out advanced workflows if then logic, you know, if it's alone as conditionally approved, I want to send a text message to everyone and I want that to come from my, my LWA or my processor, right? I mean, those types of advanced workflows and then of course on the, on the end, you know, post-close nurtures staying in front of your clients, you know, the idea of client life. And so this, I didn't see a solution that was doing all of that. I saw some people that were spending crazy amounts of money to try and jerry rig these systems or to build out a Salesforce which, you know, I mean, Salesforce is very flexible platform, but, you know, I think it's something that's most intuitive and, you know, I just, I saw an opportunity to build something that was mortgage specific that could really focus on the end to end journey, if you will. I didn't think that had been done and that's ultimately what we're, you know, what we've built and we're continuing to improve upon an ADM. I can't help but feel for the loan officer listening and just just take individual L.O. for a moment because we're typically the ones in the field, you know, having to try and make this thing work. Would you agree that for too long now, CRM companies have promised that all in one solution yet haven't delivered? Not certainly what I've heard. I mean, I'm not, I haven't been in this space for 20 years, right? So I can't, you know, I've had certainly anecdotally that's what I've heard. I think that it's two things. It's the end to end solution, but it's also making it accessible, right? And I think to be just very transparent, like, I think that's the mistake we made when we brought our product to the market, you know, two and a half, three years ago, as we just didn't have a lot of content in there, you know, it wasn't turnkey, right? And I think look like there's, there are people that love to stay up late at night and kind of tinker with the system and try and dial it in. That's just not most people. Most people have gone on their life for, you know, especially if you're, you're very relationally built, like you want to be out there connecting with your referral partners and you're going to spend your time, you know, doing that instead of tinkering with a system for hours on end. And so I think for us, we missed that with the initial iteration, which is, you know, there's this crazy, powerful system, people get access to it and it's like, oh, you know, well, what now, right? So I think for us, where we've, what we've really done at ADM is, and the reason why, you know, we sort of were calling it the two point of version of the product, it's, it's a completely reimagined user experience in facelift, where the idea is, is you get in and, you know, one click, you have your email integrated, one click, you have your texting number integrated, one click, you pull in all the content, we call it playbooks, this is kind of something we got from Y4, which is, here's all my holiday nurture stuff, here's all my in process stuff, here's all my lead conversion, okay, you know, someone starts to fill out an app, you know, can I integrate my point of sale? So if they stop, you know, so, you know, just one, you know, one click and compass, you know, things like that, we try to make it really simple, so it's just quick and people can get off to the races. And so I think for me, like, I think what we're obsessed about at ADM is we want people to just see the value of what we're providing as quickly as possible. We don't want people to have to build something for months and months before maybe it's going to get there, we want them to come in and click a few buttons and it's like a week later, it's like, oh, I can't believe what this thing is doing for me, that's our obsession at the moment, is to make it as turnkey as possible. So that way, people aren't doubting us, they just see it, they see it quickly and they believe it, right, that we are for my end-end solution. Right, so I'm looking at your website for technical partners in compass, I assume that means you have an integration to in compass? Yeah, we integrate the number of LSSs, so we integrate with compass, you know, already in link, we have a Zapier connection, which allows us to kind of port and data to arrive. And then we have integrations with mine and lending that as well. Okay, so when it comes to let's take texting SMS for example, that's kind of seamlessly integrated for users? Yeah, absolutely, you basically, it's a part of the onboarding. You say, hey, I want this area code. So let's say you're in a, I don't know, 123 area code, you type that in, you press enter, we spit out a list of numbers, you click whichever one you want, you know, click the arrow button, and you're done, you're integrated, you have texting, just like that. Other third party tool, what's I'm looking at? You got home bot there, from the from a loan officer standpoint, right? They're all about sales facilitation, and then of course, you know, we've got the three stages, right? There's pre, there's during, there's, you guys have, you've, you've got hand, a hand, a process, you've got the playbooks. So I guess what I'm trying to picture is, you know, because everybody's heard this kind of stuff, you know, this is well from serums before, they get in, it's usually over promised under deliver, or like you said earlier, they do one thing really well, but they don't do these three things really well. How would you, for the loan officers, that in that space right now, you know, can you fill in some of those gaps for me? Yeah, absolutely. So I would say in general, there's two categories of serums in the mortgage space. There's those that are maybe more enterprise centric, that are really marketing automation platforms, like we're sending out emails for the in process stuff, worse, send it out, you know, birthday, home anniversary, holiday stuff, right? And that's kind of, and that's really what they do. And then I think you have others that it's like, you can customize the heck out of them. And it's, it's hard to do. It's not, it's not necessarily intuitive. And maybe they don't have the out-of-the-box marketing stuff available to you. And so I think for us, the way that we look at it is, you know, we kind of bridge both of those, we have marketing stuff there out of the box, it's turnkey. But we also have the ability for you to build as complex as stuff as you want. I think one of the main differentiated points that we have in our platform is, you know, we call it our automation builder. But literally you can trigger based off of anything that's happening and build if them logic. And so you can say, you know, I kind of give the example earlier, like if loan is conditionally approved, I want a text message to go from me, the loan officer, to most realtors, buying and listing agent, saying, hey, FYI, you know, we're initial approved. Don't worry we got it. This is what's happening. Maybe I want my LWA or my processor to send that to the borrower and co-barrower, saying, hey, here's the conditions, here's the things you need to do. Maybe I want an email to go out to title for whatever reason, right? I mean, the point is, is like, you can dream it up. The automation builder can build it, right? And you can even say something if the loan comes back conditionally approved and it's a Spanish speaker. I want this, right? Or if it's a also, you know, a purchase, but, you know, address is TBD, you know, like you can, you can kind of build it however you want to. And so I think for us, like our approach has been a little bit different, where I think that, you know, we basically looked at this and said, hey, we want to provide that turnkey value. But as deep as you want to go, you can go. And I think that that's a new approach to the space. I think it's been, we'll provide a turnkey value, but you can't go much deeper than that. Or you can go as deep as you want, but you got to kind of figure it out. If you don't put a lot of time and effort of this thing, you're never going to get an ROI from it. And so I think for us, we're kind of trying to bridge that where it's like, you're going to see the ROI right away. But you can go down that rabbit hole as much as you want to build whatever you want with with our system. So I think that's why I think about it if I was, if I was a Nellow. It's like, great, you know, you're, you're kind of, you want to start in the kitty pool, so to speak, and get all the marketing stuff that you're used to going. Great. And then you want to dabble and start to swim in the deep end. You can do that. And I think there's not another platform out there that allows you to kind of, to make that jump, if you won't. What can you tell me about the co-marketing with referral network partners? That's one of the features on your website. Yeah, absolutely. So we have a marketing and kind of design center, which is free in the app. Think of it as a canva, if you will, where you can, we have a lot of designs out of the box there. So you can go in and edit and drag and drop. And the designs that we give you, one click post to, you know, a social media, Facebook, LinkedIn, send out via email. And so yeah, you can, you know, if you have an LOS integration with us, we're going to pull in your your partner, you know, referral partner data automatically. So you have that populated, you can easily act upon that. Or, you know, if, if you don't, you can upload your LOS the partners via like a CSV or you can of course just kind of manually input them. But yeah, I think we've, we know that's, you know, that's critical and have tried to make that as seamless as possible. It makes me curious, CSV, how do you handle people who've got referral partners like, let's say, okay, yeah, I've been business 10 years and like I've done various marketing activities, et cetera, that I've got this list of 1200, you know, referral partners to do zero vetting process to go through. I'm sure you guys are, you know, want to be cautious of spam issues and things like that. Yeah, so I mean, I think for us, like it's, you know, we're really a tool that is designed to help you, you know, save time through automation. Really, like we want to be the engine that is running your business for you in a sense. And so I think for because of that, like we try not to be too opinionated, like if you want to up, there's no limits. You can upload as many people as you want to our system, like we're a tech, we don't we're a tech platform. It's like, it's like going into the Gmail and, you know, they're saying, you know, you can't, you know, sorry, you can't actually, you know, send that email this way. You know, it's like, right, you know, so as far as email, like there's no restrictions. I mean, one of the things I think is really cool that we do is you can agree your outlook for your Gmail. So you can send from that, which is great. So you may show us up in your sent folder. And you know, as people reply, we bring it into the CRM. I think that's it's really unique. But of course, if you want to send that that 1000 email blast, you don't want to use your outlook. So we have sort of our own email servers to help you with that. But yeah, we're not going to just discriminate against, you know, if you want to send out a blast those people, I think texting, we're going to discriminate a little more just because I think carriers have gotten a lot better at filtering out people that are spamming. And so, you know, we do limit, you know, we're not going to let you send out 100 texts in a minute. Just be, honestly, because you're going to, yeah, you're going to basically get your number banned. And we don't want you to do that. So we're going to kind of limit that a little bit more. And you know, for texting, of course, it's a little different email as long as you give them a way to opt out. You can legally email whoever you want texting. You know, you need to get that consent. And so, you know, again, like it's not our job to micromanage that. Like we have a button that says, you know, you confirm that you have consent to do it. And, you know, as long as you're saying, you have consent to do that. And you're kind of, you're taking the responsibility for it. We, you know, again, we're a software tool at the end of it at the end of the day. So, you know, we're not going to second guess you. We're going to take you at your word and you can, you can use the system out. Or it's going to best figure use case. Who is your ideal user? I don't know if you've got an avatar or like, you know, who's best suited for using ADM? Yeah, I think, I think for us, we love to work with, you know, called teams or branches that are really trying to push the envelope. And it's going to be individual small brokerages too, of course. But they're really looking to automate every aspect of their business. Okay, you know, I integrate with just civil access or flow file. Like, what happens is someone, you know, is uploading these docs. They don't, there's a couple more things to do. They don't do it for seven days. Can I automate that? Yes, you can in ADM, right? Like, you know, hey, what, what happens if, you know, like the use case, like it's a, it's a Spanish speaking, you know, loan and, you know, a person buying a house and, and they address the TBD, you know, just like, these different scenarios, like, can I automate that workflow? Can I deliver a personalized journey to that person? Yes, yes, you can. And so I think we love those, those people that are helping us fine tune and make our system better, right? Where they're, they're in it and they're stretching the boundaries of what we can do and encouraging us to, to, to provide more. I think, I think we, we love, we love that. And I think where we've really, I think resonated well with the market as well is, you know, maybe independent mortgage banks that are on the smaller side of things, if you will, where they, they need to provide that kind of marketing automation system to their, to their people. But they also, they're not so heavy on compliance that they're going to let their top producers, you know, really geek out on the system and build the stuff that they want to build. And so I think for us, we found a really good niche there because a lot of those smaller banks they have to integrate with five CRMs currently. And I think they see us as that one stop shop of like, okay, you can find you can make all of my people happy and we can just have one system in here. That's, that is something that is very attractive to them as well. Interesting, very interesting. What do you want? So, I mean, it makes me think behind the scenes, I'm sure there were some growth pains, the merging of two brands into one and technologies and platforms. I'm sure that wasn't easy, you know, to your point earlier, you've come out with the 2.0 version. Maybe that's an outcome of some of the growing pains from merging the two. But, you know, giving you this platform to allow you to get ADM in front of an audience, right, of loan officers who, you know, as I think I've kind of alluded to with some of my questions is perhaps jaded, right, or gun shy, or tune out some of the quote marketing messages about CRMs because everybody's always asking, you know, what's CRM you're using? What's CRM using? You know, and I know the best answer is the one you use or what's the best CRMs, the one you use. But what do you want to really help originators understand when it comes to choosing a marketing automation platform? Yeah, I think so. I disagree with the kind of, I don't know people say the best CRM is the one you use. Okay, I want to hear your opinion. I think the best CRM is the one that's automating your business for you, right? I mean, like, otherwise, one of the music style, like, if you're doing everything manually, then like, what's the point of even really using? I mean, I know it keeps things organized, right? But I think the best CRM is the one that's saving you time. If you're spending more time managing your CRM than you would otherwise, then like, then why are you using it, right? And so, um, so I agree with you. Like, I think the underlying truth to that statement is, is fair where it's like, yeah, you have to use it. That's the good alternative answer to that is, yeah, because people could be using Excel or something that sucks, but you're using it, you know, quote unquote. But I like that that the best CRM is the one that saves you the most time. Yeah. And I hope to make the most money. I mean, it's those, those are the two, you know, things that, you know, I see where I should do. It was a shall be save time and it should help you make more money. It's not doing either of those things. I'm like, and we have interesting conversations with people all the time. It's like, well, I love this plot. Why do you love it? Oh, you know, well, how much money does it make you? How much time does, I don't, I don't really know, right? It's just, oh, because these not producers use it. I use it. I think it's cool. It's like, okay, well, let's just really distill that down. Like, that was just really helping your business. Like, what does it mean to your business if this goes away? Like, does your lead flow get cut in half? You know, like, you mean, you spend an hour and extra day on stuff? And so, that's how we like to kind of quantify, you know, hard technology. You know, so I, I guess for me, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I also have this here. I've got me off track a little bit. What's that? What was the underlying question again? Well, I was saying, what, how would you advise originators, you know, to be wise and selecting and automation and CRM technology platform for themselves? Because, you know, there's a lot of bills and whistles. Like you said, oh, top producers use it, whatever. Yeah, but how do I know what's right for me? Yeah, I think, I think that's a great question. I think it's taking a look at the way I see this is there's the way the CRM could be most helpful is, it's obviously bringing in your data into one place, right? So it's bringing your leads, you know, data is a tech term. I know I'm just a tech guy, but, you know, data is your leads, it's your, your referral partners, it's your contacts, you know, like, you know, your, your borrowers, your past clients, your transactions, you know, you're, you know, all of that. It's bringing it all into one place. And then it's allowing you to take that data and make it actionable through sort of automation, right? And so I think, you know, for me, that's how we really look at this is it's like, how can we help you get all of your data here? And then how can we help you take that and leverage that data to automate it? Right? So in other words, like the point of sale example, the great example, how can we take the data that somebody started an application and stopped it hasn't done anything for the last seven days? Like, can we get that data? Yes, we can. Can we help make that data actionable for you to re-engage that lead and try and convert it? Yes, we can, right? You know, if you think about it from like, in a lot of perspective, I can say work within confidence or whatever, right? Like again, a loan comes back approved. I mean, how can we help you make that actionable in the most effective way? And I think there's two ways we can do that. One is providing you with workflows out of the box that make that actionable. So it's like great, you know, it's setting out text and emails. But it's also giving you the flexibility with our automation builder to make that data as actionable in the most relevant way to you. So it's the flexibility of this system where it's like, you know, maybe you have a different workflow. We can help you save time in a different way. Great. We can build that for you or we can teach you to build it. I mean, but the problem with the system is that it can be done, right? And so the way that I look at it is it's like, I think that, you know, again, you want something that saves you time. I think that's for some of the powers of space to have done well. We're just out of the box or they're providing some value. They're doing stuff for you. But you do, you do want to platform that can really go the extra mile and begin to save you more and more time and help you make more and more money. And I think one of the things that has always been surprising to me in this space is like the lead conversion, you know, side of things. I've given the point of sale example, but you get a referral partner from a lead from a referral partner. You know, we have a portal where the referral partner can upload a lead and that kicks off an automation where you're reaching out to the lead and trying to schedule time to talk to them. And, you know, like, let's say you're going to our system is going to send them an email and a text, you know, twice the first day and once the next day, and if they don't respond, our system's automatically going to go back to the referral partner and say, hey, look like I'm just a just person, you know, I text them three times or the past two days and email them a couple times and hear from them, like, would you mind reaching back out to them, right? It's things like that, which, you know, again, I think those types of things have not really been done or at least I haven't seen them done. And so I think that's that's the way we're thinking about things. It's like, think about how much time that saves you. I mean, I mean, think about the inefficiency of you get a lead from a referral partner, they call you, maybe they, they, they, they Facebook messenger you. It's like, okay, great. We want the data in our system. We want to make it actionable. So you're not even doing anything. It's like the system is doing everything for you. And so that's the way I look at it. It's like, we want to provide that, bring the data, make it actionable out of the box. But then we really want to enable you or again, you can work with us. We can do it for you. You can dream up a workflow. We can build it. But it's like, we want to, we want to help you kind of, you know, we want that life of the turn on towards, like, wait a second. All I've been doing is sending out emails to my database with my current CRM. I have this crazy idea. What if I could do this? It's like, great. That's, that's, that's, that's the light. But we want to go off where people are now ever centering this motive. Like I'm scared of technology. I don't know what it's going to do. Is it going to do something that I don't want it to do? We want, we want people to, you know, feel empowered to, to go on the offensive to say, actually, I love this. I want to do more with this. Here's how I think this can help my business even more. And so I think that's, it's how I look at it. And that's the advice I would give is, like, look for something that's going to provide maximum value to in your business that you can quantify. But don't, but don't settle as well or don't, don't handcuff yourself to a platform. It isn't going to continue to iterate and evolve. Yeah, that's good stuff. So in wrapping it up then, if somebody's listening to this, they're helping, they're trying to decide if they should court someone else. Right? Another potential CRM platform like yourself. How, how would somebody or what would some questions they ask themselves be? How do you know it's, it's time, right, to look at other options? This maybe goes back to what we said earlier, is it saving you time and money? But are there like pain points or questions that should be surfacing for somebody? I think there's a few things. One is like, if, if you bought a platform and it's, you're not really using it two to three months in, nothing's going to change. And I hate to be that way, but it's like, you know, we're all that way, right? It's like, I get a gym membership in January and I haven't gone and it's March, like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to start going in May or June, right? Like, so if you, and you could get inspired, yeah, I like the positivity. Maybe I'm just, yeah, I don't know. So maybe that's just me, you know, but I think it like, if you want something, you're not seeing value from it to three, you know, kind of, you know, like months into that or even a month and using it, you're not engaged in trying to build it into your process. There's a problem there. Yeah, there's a, there's a problem and I would look for a platform that's going to be more tricky for you, right? And I wouldn't wait, you know, I would look sooner rather than later. I think the other thing I'd be asking is, where are the biggest pain points in my business right now? You know, two years ago was just so many refinance. Like, how can I make, you know, how can I process more loans, right? Now it's, how can I give her more leads, right? Like, and I think that is a, that's what we've really focused on with our kind of point of sale integrations and, you know, kind of the lead conversion campaigns is, you know, we really, we really want to help you. I mean, look, like a lot of people's answered to growing their business as I'm just going to go spend money on more leads and I can certainly work. But if you're only converting, you know, 25, 30% of your leads right now, like maybe start by saying, how can we get that to 50% right? Because you don't have to spend more money to do that, right? And so I can increase the pull-through rate. And so I think it's just, I think it's looking, I think it's being thinking about what are the pain points in your business, not only in aligning with the provider. And I think, look, I mean, I would demo different products. We're not the solution for everyone, you know, I fully recognize that. And I would ask the hard questions. Like, I think, yeah, companies tend to oversell things. I get it. Like, it happens. Like, we charge best not to do that. But, you know, okay, so you text, yeah, of course we text. Okay, what does that mean? Like, what does that really look like? Like, ask the hard questions. If there's three things that are really important to you, like, don't just take the casual yes as a, as gospel, so to speak, like really, really dig deep and make sure that it's, that it's right for you. Okay. And I think, and along those lines, if you heard something of interest for you here today, you can go obviously get a demo from ADM, the website link we'll put in the show notes, but it's think ADM, A-I-D-I-U-M, think ADM.com. And go check them out, book a, request a demo, big button over there. Can't miss it. And maybe it is for you. If you're in a place where you considering alternatives and you haven't been using your current platform or you don't have one at all, even worse, need one for sure. All right, man, this is, this is great. Thank you so much for sharing and congrats, by the way, on the, you know, continued growth and evolution of these platforms merging into one, ADM 2.0. Looking forward to more good things to come from you guys. Yeah, thanks Jeff. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Everybody in order to do, check the link to the show notes, go check out ADM, and if you like this episode, hey, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before, and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. 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