How to Get Your Mindset Right for 2024

Hey, what's up, everybody? Jeff Zimper. Your host for the mortgage marketing radio podcast. I really, really appreciate you tuning in. Hope you're doing well. By the time you're listening to this, we're probably already entering 2024. And this is a perfect ideal timely episode for you to get your head straight, right? For you to get your focus on more about that in a moment. But as you know, if you've been listening for some time, this is the place where we help mortgage professionals move from solicitor and vendor to becoming partner in peer when approaching real estate agents and attempting to get engagement in conversations. Imagine not having to chase realtors, right? Go to open houses, do call calling if you don't want to, right? Go to broker previews, host networking, happy hours. What if you could actually attract agents instead of chasing agents? What if agents could engage with you and reach out and want to know more about you and connect with you and have a conversation based on their choosing. And therefore, you were able to qualify the people that you were actually spending time with. Would that be a better use of your time? Would you probably have less energy? Would you probably have less burnout? I'm guessing yes, just like you heard many of the success stories from our members over at my age in classes. And of course, I got another one to bring to you from the streets here. This is going back into the well from a few weeks ago. Justi Mahoney. She says, just a quick win. She put on her first class in a couple of months. She was in a funk and stopped doing one of the key activities that build momentum and engagement and conversations with real estate agents. And so she decided to get back on the wagon, right? And present a class. She had the ability to do it with her local realtor association. She had 35 attendants. These are real estate agents, right? And what she presented, what's our class called embracing the shift, which is basically, you know, how to survive and thrive the current market shift, what to say, how to show up online, what to post and all those things. And it went incredibly well for her. And she got conversations, meetings, she's getting referrals from it. And the bottom line is, look, this is appropriate to what we're talking about here today with my special guest. And that is, you know, understanding what your core value proposition is, what aligns with you and your values and you, your job when it comes to referral partners and realtors, in this case, is aligning with those same people who share some of the same values as you. Now, if you're a person who likes to, you know, be knowledgeable, if you like to help people grow, if you like to share relevant content, if you like to share information, teach classes virtually in person, well, then you can, this is perfect and alignment, right? Because you enjoy the process, you know, the people who are attracted to those same things are attracted to one of work with you. And therefore, things become that much more easy to do. And you work one to many instead of one to one and a leveraged fashion. And therefore, accelerate your results. So we've got a ton more success stories and results. You can go check out at mortgagemarketing.pro. We are looking for a few more people to join. This is not for everybody. But if it's for you, there's really only one way to find out that's go to mortgagemarketing.pro schedule a call with me and we'll have a conversation and see if we are fit for each other. So go check that out. Now, my special guest for this episode, I'm really thrilled and honored to bring Shayla Gifford back to the conversation today. Shayla Gifford is the VP of sales development and a branch manager with guild mortgage. And she is just a well of energy and giving and support and encouragement and fire. That's right. Let's just say it. She's fire, right? And hey, I don't know about you, but I'm a person who's attracted to somebody who brings energy to the conversation and in a meaningful, impactful way, kind of, you know, heart-centered leadership. Let's call it that. And this conversation is fantastic based on, you know, all the noise around like the activities you should be doing to get engagement conversations like what should you be doing in the market with your referral partners and otherwise. And that conversation is relevant and has the right place. But I like the fact that we start this conversation today from the neck up or with your mindset and your values alignment because mindset drives skill set, which drives activities. And you've got to get your mindset right. You've got to get your energy right and be really clear on who you are uniquely. And what is what are the unique skills attributes and value that you bring to relationships? Because that will help you get clear on number one who you are and who you attract. But also you'll be able to recognize who you mesh with and who you align with. Therefore minimizing the frequency at which you have to work with other people who don't necessarily align. And that's where you find a lot of burnout and people getting tired with, you know, in this industry and so forth. So I think this conversation you're going to really, really enjoy with Shayla. You need to connect with her more on Instagram, her Instagram handles at Shay Giff, S-H-A-Y-G-I-F-F or go to her website, which is Shayla Gifford, G-I-F-F-O-R-D, Shayla Gifford.com. She's got tons of amazing content to share with you and is one of those leaders in the industry who if she's talking, I'm listing. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Shayla, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Jeff. Happy to be here. Always a pleasure. It's always something I learn when talking to you and also get inspired, by the way. So get ready to be inspired people for people who may not be familiar with who Shayla Gifford is and what she does. What do you want to share with our listeners? Well, I'm 42 years old. I'm in Reno, Nevada. I'm a mom of two daughters, 12 and 9 years old. I've been married to Galen, coming up on 15 years now. Have a poodle and mini poodle, bean dog. We love to ski and surf and walk and hike. I love to read books, podcasts. I'm definitely an introvert that also has figured out a way to perform in sales and leadership. But I like my quiet time. So I started this industry. I'm going on my 20th year, Jeff started in 2004, 23 years old, and I've been a loan officer for the entire period of time. I always say I'm on the Gifford team, 14.5 version. I've had a team of all different sorts and types. I've also been a sole originator with no team, no processor, no mentorship, no coach, no leadership. So I know that before, the transformation of coaching and a building a team. And I feel like that's why I'm so passionate about coaching others. I run a district to kill mortgage that spans over six or seven states. I have 40 loan officers that work for me. I do a daily training with those loan officers. We call it the daily hustle where we do some, you know, micro training. And then we all call together. This isn't something I've always done to run my team. But I feel like in today's environment, we need to be an action economy. We need to stop thinking and take action. And it's a heck of a lot easier to do that when you do it as a team in an organized fashion where there's accountability. There's high energy. And there's a lot of collaboration on what to say and what is the appointment? What are we going to bring to the appointment? So a high sales training environment is what I like to run. And then I also do coaching for my people where we're focusing on what is your wealth plan? What are you building? You know, let's look at the money every month and make sure that it's tactical is not emotional. Let's look at our plan on how we're going to generate leads and convert leads and track our numbers and know what we're doing. And then we of course have all the dashboards and portfolio and everything built in Salesforce so that we can use tools and technology to leverage and scale. So that's what I do. That's what I'm up to. I've coached professionally. At some point in time, I'll probably build another coaching company. But at this time, I am building my own army and team movement, whatever you want to call it, doing some event twice year live events, Jeff. But otherwise working with my team on a daily basis, a coaching them to be productive and crush it. Wow. Thank you, by the way, for sharing that. What a, sounds very fulfilling. Would that be a word that's appropriate? It is. I feel on fire right now. And I think there was a moment where I definitely burnt out, you know, probably at the time when I was making the most money I've ever made in my life during COVID. And, you know, I just overgassed it for so many years, didn't have a lot of boundaries in place, didn't do a lot of therapy as to what dysfunctions were striving my life. But was collecting a lot of trophies and making a ton of money and got no place of kind of self protection. I wasn't putting myself out there. I wasn't going to networking. I wasn't growing my team. I didn't have any clear goals or vision. And with this downturn over the last two years, I really believe we've been in these transition years. I've had to really like come to the table and say, what is it that I really love doing? What am I committed to doing? Because I'm never going to be that person or leader that's going to be grumpy or sarcastic or burnt. It's like either you're all in and on fire or get out. That's my mentality. So, yeah, I've reconnected to that purpose. I think the industry right now needs leadership more than ever. And people are craving it and leaders are being exposed. When times get tough, you get to see what's really there. And I can honestly say I've given everything I've got to my people. We're doubling down. We're finding new ways to be creative. And that makes me feel good. I feel needed right now, Jeff. I feel like my skills and talents are needed in the market. And I would say for loan officers that are also finding that, they're finding that professionals are needed right now. You know, enthusiasm is needed. Consistency is needed. And so if you're somebody that can lean into that, wow, this is just a time to dominate. So, yeah, I'm back. I'm in a fulfilling, fired up place. Yeah, I can definitely sense that. I've almost, I have to say, unequivocally, with every time that I've seen you, person in public, whatever, whether it's on the stage or just, you know, saying hi in the audience, you definitely show up with that energy and that enthusiasm, which is, which is awesome. However, circle back to what you opened up within one of the things that you self described yourself as, which, which is an introvert. I'm wondering, do you find that there are other introverts in this industry also? Oh, I think most of us are introverts. I mean, we like spreadsheets and solving problems and tax returns and using the analytical part of our brain as well. So, yeah, I'm an introvert that's learned how to be extroverted, that's learned how to be courageous, that's actually learned how to deal with people. I become obsessed with understanding human behavior and what drives people and how do we, you know, really work on this self transformation to be the healthiest, best versions of ourselves. I just thrive and crave that for myself. So, I love to crave that for others, but me being an introvert means, Jeff, that I just need quiet and space to recharge. So, like this weekend, you know, I was in the sauna for an hour and the sauna for an hour on Sunday. It's like my quiet mom box where I get away from the kids and my husband. I love to go on walks and be a nature by myself. I'm, you know, I'm getting fresh air, my creative brain turns on, I'm getting movement and oftentimes I'm listening to a book or podcast. So, I like people and I like being around people, but I thrive when I get that time and space to myself. Yeah, I totally get it wired in a similar way. I'm curious, though, on the aspect of introvert and the fact that, you know, the type of a person or, or, you know, characterization of an original writer who said spreadsheets, all that type of thing, what else I'm going to hang out here for a minute if it's okay because I just have a sensor knowing that a lot of people are in the same boat of like, I may quote introvert and I get the fact that we, when we're in groups of people, we in terms of our energy levels, that draws down and we need to go be alone to fill that back up. But what about what about the aspect of you learning to transition from being an introvert and having to create a personal public facing brand as well? Like, was that a challenge for you to cross that? Well, listen, I, I've wanted success from day one. I've wanted to stand out. I've wanted to do something different. I've wanted to differentiate. I've wanted to be the most successful woman in a man's club. Okay, so for an ever coaching event I've been to or whatever, often I was the only female in stage or the only one that was in that circle. And so I've really wanted success more than I've cared about my own personal energy or my own comfort. Like, I just took on the mantra and it's one of my core values in ours in our group is just whatever it takes. So if what it takes is to get good at networking, I got to get good at networking. What are the skills? What are the tactics to do that? To get good as a sales leader, I've got to learn how to tune my energy to get into that state to lead others in a battle. My husband calls me a wartime leader that I actually get better when it's tougher. Like, I just, oh, I just, I just figure out how to get to that next gear. Um, so what I have to learn how to do is actually moderate myself because I am so trained to be an achiever and to do whatever it takes that I won't care for myself. And I will sacrifice my well-being or even my family or, you know, other things that are lower priority at the moment, um, to do. But in terms of like being introverted and then having to make cold calls or being introverted and having to speak in front of a room or being introverted and having to network, that's all learnable skills. And you first have to believe that if someone else can do it and it's tactical that they're learnable skills that you can gain those skills. So everything that I've learned as a sales person, Jeff, was kind of unnatural to me, other than the fact that I'm competitive and I'm strategic. And so I just find who's doing something really well and I study what it is and what are the components and I pay attention to my own reaction to things and to people and go, huh, what about them, made me feel this way? How do I embody that with my own style? Yeah, so you have a good self-awareness, morometer, recognizing of also what are the changes you need to implement, right, to get to that end goal, learning new skills, video, obviously you've stepped up your social profile. Totally. Yeah, whatever it takes. And I think, yeah, it's just, you know, you can't do all things at the same time. But I think if we're all quiet, Jeff, we all know what that next thing we need to do is, right? I've been saying this that what realtors need from us right now is they need our sales skills back. For the previous 10 years, they needed our operational excellence. They needed reliability on answering the phone, doing a good quality pre-approval and closing the loan on time with communication. They've needed operational excellence. Now, guys, this is way back to being a sales job. They need our sales skills. They need our enthusiasm, our optimism, our strategic brain, our presentation skills, our ability to connect and overcome fear, find out what the real objection is. That's what a valuable partner looks like today. And I think the reason a lot of people will get out of this business over the next six months, Jeff, and have gotten out of the business is not because they don't love doing loans. Like millions of people in our industry love doing loans and solving problems and putting together the puzzle and handing somebody their keys. That's fun. But sales is what this is. It's helping overcome fears and solve problems and connect with people at a real meaningful level and not just be a commodity. So that's where we got to lean into those skill sets. Interesting. It makes me think of the team building aspect. I know you've obviously built teams and you coach people who built teams and never been them have been on the podcast over the years. But you know, that whole doctor practitioner, you know, kind of business model. Do you think still today that like if somebody recognizes as they hear you talk, they're like, well, I'm really the person who wants to I want to figure out the puzzle. I don't want to be the rainmaker. Do you think there's still possibility for somebody to do that? Well, yeah, they're part of a team 100% absolutely. But if you are a loan officer and you get paid commission only, then your number one job is to make it rain. You are a salesperson. You've got to generate leads. You've got to look for opportunity. Now, how are you going to do that through your unique abilities and through your strengths? So if you are a very confident technician, which by the way, you're my favorite. Like I became good at this industry because I became a competent technician first. I didn't want anyone to look at me at 23 or 25 and go, oh, there's that blonde chick who's going to just flip her hair around and run around and make promises that she doesn't know if she can keep. It really mattered to me that if I said somebody was good to go, if I said I can close by Friday that I could pull it off. And that requires really learning a lot of skills and being competent. So my confidence as an originator came from my competence as a technician. That's what I spent the first six years getting really good at is being competent. Now, the problem if you can't articulate your strengths to somebody in a way that they go, yes, I need you. You're my guy. You're my girl. You're my loan officer. I'm going to refer you. I'm locking my loan with you. Well, then you're just stuck. You're a highly talented person that's a total secret. So competence is a really important thing. That loan technician, that ninja, that solving problems. Great. Well, your skill set to learn is articulation. It's being willing to ring your own bell. It's being willing to say, here's your problem, Jeff. And here's how my skills and strengths are going to help you win. And if you can't do that, if you can't sell yourself is what people call it. If you can't articulate the value of your competence, you're dead. You're dead. People, so many people want to assume that people will figure it out. No, that's what there's not enough leads in the market for people to figure it out. You don't have enough opportunities at bats right now to work with realtors over time for them to go, oh, Jeff, I see what your strengths are. This is what your unique ability is. This is how you can help me make money. I see it now. Like, if we're expecting people to figure it out on their own, we're giving away all of our power and our ability to connect with the right people and live in our strength. Most of the time salespeople are running around trying to get people to like them, going, ooh, does she like me? Does he like me? It's like, no, no, no, you have to realize this is what you bring to the table and you've got to articulate that and find out if other person needs it or not. If they don't, you're not a match. Next, if they do, then you are a match, let's go to work together. That's what prospecting is is knowing what it is you bring to the table and finding people who need that thing. So we've got two things. If I'm correct, let's play this out for a second, riding simultaneously here. We've got the awareness piece, which is you can't be a secret agent, right? You'd be an advocate for yourself. You need to get on the promotional bandwagon. You've got that, but then you've also got the competence piece or why would I choose you? The old adage, which you know very well, which is great, great service, I close on time, all that stuff, which is tuned out. Yet that's still great service, air quotes. That's very vague and not specific, right? I'm assuming you would agree that you need to go deeper than that in terms of the articulation to use your word. Any examples you want to perhaps, and I know I'm just thrown this stuff on. Yeah. Well, let me say this that like great service will keep you in the game, but it's not opening the door right now very often. Okay, you might get lucky and meet a real or a CPA or a builder tomorrow that's just have three deals blow up and is so frustrated and is like, why can't I find a competent loan officer who answers their phone, closes on time, does a great pre-approval, and like you walk into that opportunity, okay? But because there's such low volume in the marketplace and operations teams have tons of capacity, even the crappiest loan officers that don't know how to take a good loan application or 1003, they can turn in a piece of shit loan and operations can redo it 14 times and still get it to close on time. Because there's capacity, okay? So those weaknesses will be exposed once we have more volume and there's just not, there's not capacity to deal with all that stuff, but right now those weaknesses are not being exposed. So you've got loan officers who are good at articulating, maybe don't know anything about loans, and they're getting the business because they've got an operation team that can handle it. So, but what's going to open the doors is you being able to say, this is why do what I do? Everybody has heard that it's about the why it's not about the how. Can people feel your energy? Can people feel your commitment? Like when I say to you, Jeff, Jeff, listen, your great loan officer in Las Vegas, I'm in Reno, Nevada. I'm looking to expand my team. Your goals are to double your business over the next two years. We have alignment and values. You want to provide value. You're always learning and growing. You show up with humility and curiosity. You love people fiercely. We are totally aligned in that. But my strength as a leader where I can help you is that I will set high expectations for you. I will create a culture where we do the work together. And I'm really good with the strategic brain so I can listen to what your strengths are, to what your challenges are. And I can give you talk tracks, scripting, calendar management, whatever you need to help you get through those next barriers to get you to be successful. Do you see a world where you and I pairing together could help you achieve your goals? That's good. Makes me want to sign up and originate again. Start originating, Jeff. I'm practicing this live with you. Thank you for giving me that opportunity. I'm trying to say basically what I used as a framework is exactly what I would use to land an employee. It would be the exact same to land a business partner. Is that number one, I need to know you. I've really got to know the person that I'm talking to. So when we show up to meetings, we've got to be leaned in. Being an introvert or extrovert doesn't matter, but like, are you bringing something to the table? Are you opening your full heart? Are you being curious? Are you asking questions? Are you bringing energy to the table? So every time that you and I have had the opportunity to connect, which is not enough, but I'm really honestly curious about who is Jeff? What are you all about? What are your goals? What do you care about? Do we align with each other? Because if we don't, I'm not going to waste my time or spend any seconds with you because there's too many, there's seven billion people on this planet, right? So I have to first know you, what you care about, what you like, and what your goals are. In number two, I have to know what my strengths are, what my assets are, what my resources are, to see if there's alignment. So when you and I first met and you said, hey, I, this is what I do with my podcast. This is the product I sell. This is how I try to help loan officers. I really was like, okay, I understand that. Here's my resources. Here's where we could maybe really do something together. And if there wasn't a match there, then we move on, right? So know your strengths. Know why you're doing this. Let people feel your passion. And your conviction, like I would not say that to you, Jeff, is a recruit. If I didn't 1,000 percent believe it, because I don't want to feel like a fraud or a fake. I don't want to promise you something or, you know, pretend like I can be somebody that I'm not. So figure out, that's the self awareness piece. The skills and the tools that I would use for that is I would use a gallop strength finder. So you go to gallop.com. You can spend 20 bucks and take an assessment and get your top five strengths. I would actually go back through your entire working history and all the way back into, you know, maybe grade school, high school. And think about how did you apply those strengths to find successes in your life? What have you had to overcome in your life? What are successes that you've had and be able to articulate your story to somebody else? Because the more you can tell about your life and what you care about in your goals and your dreams and a story that people are like, I'm in on that guy. Like I just like him. Why do we like people, Jeff, because we have alignment in our values and our values really show up from like when we get squeezed, when we get pushed against a wall, when we're going for something, what is it that we choose to do? How do we align, right? So, you know, we do, we do a lot on core values. Obviously, I've got a really firm, clear five core values that we have in our company that are, that are my personal values. Everybody that starts with us every six months, we do a core values workshop. It's three and a half hours where we help people take a hundred values and really find their five and then connect to where did those values come from for you? What people in your life have represented or misrepresented those values? How do you articulate them? And also, what happens when your values get threatened? What happens when when you have a rub with a company or a person or something? Which values are what is the infraction on those values so that you know, oh, that's out of alignment. Because the quicker that you know, if something's in alignment for you, the quicker you could say hell yes or hell no. Right. And you could be decisive and you could be clear. And that's what I think most people are struggling right now is they don't have that clarity and they're not decisive about what I want and who I'm going to align with to get there. Hmm. Wow. That's brilliant. There's a lot of good stuff in there. If you're listening, you need to go rewind and take notes on that and go to the gallop hole, the strength finders too. Thanks for the reminder on that. I've been meaning to do that for some time. Okay. Can I hold you accountable to it? Yes. What's my commitment date? So get it done by the end of this week. And here's what would be interesting, Jeff, is for you to take that. Right. And then the question I would ask you as a leader is to say, okay, what are your 2024 goals, Jeff? What do you want to do? And it could be I want to be a better father. And then I would go, okay, well, what is better mean? What does it look like if you were on fire? Like if you were crushing it in your physical being, you're like, I need to get healthier. This is how people sell goals. Like I want to make more money. I want to get healthier. I want to get better. I want to be a better wife. What the hell does that mean? Right. Was that what? Yeah. Success is your definition for what that means. So I would help you clarify that. And then you would go, okay, I want to add 22 clients a month over 2024. And this is my value ad, or this is the product that I'm selling or whatever. And then I would say, okay, well, what are your strengths? And how are you going to utilize and leverage those strengths in your talk track and your messaging and your behavior and your activity so that you can get the goals that you want? That's good clarity right there. I like that. I can already feel it. Like we how much time do we even spend like doing that self analysis? Very little. But it's funny because we're kind of up here in the cloud, so to speak, right? And I've got some tactical things written down, which we'll get to. But however, I think what's so great about what you just unpacked for us is all the tactical stuff in the world will lose its power. It's impact without the value stuff and being clear who you are and who you're for. Would you agree? Yes. Oh, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. I just did. So I'm putting myself out there. I just did a live, a Shay lie. What do we call it? Shayla live or play with Shay event in November? And I committed to doing that twice a year. And what I did is the whole first half is a day and a half. And I'm really good at strategically architecting a process to take people through a process to get to a point of actual execution. And the first half day is these kind of exercises because you're right. We don't sit and really think about what does it mean for me to be on fire? What do I really care about? What goals am I going after? What is my long term plan? Like I've got to have a long term vision that really gets me pumped that I can like viscerally feel so that I will do the work today and make those freaking calls today and go on that networking thing and go to the appointment that I don't want to do because I'm an introvert or I hate this or you know that we got to do. So I'm glad we're getting a chance to spend time on this because this is a kind of like usually it's the small shift that makes all the difference in the world. It's it's the human being that shows up to the meeting. You guys know we're not human doings. We're human beings. So how is your being? What is your energy? What is your clarity? What is it that you're going after? That's what's attractive. That is what people buy and go I'm a hell yes, let's do business. Yeah, I love that. And I think all right, so let's transition briefly then into you. I'm going to assume your degree, but you tell me it's like when I'm thinking of the context of this relationship or conversation, we just kind of unpacked and I'm visualizing a loan officer listening to that and I'm trying to think of the amount of times or the reluctance or like when most the the quote unquote average and I know we're not talking to average right now, but you know more originators need to have those types of conversations with agents. Most would you agree? Most of them are just half-assing it, winging it, just going okay, there's a you fogged a mirror cool like no here's here's what I think I think everybody's doing their best really I think that they just don't know how to do it differently I same thing I feel with realtors people go don't you think most realtors are lazy I go no I think if you joined a commission only job in the real estate world whether you're a loan officer or realtor you are a highly motivated driven person the problem is in the clarity about how to do it and who you're looking to partner with so once you get that clarity down and then you have the actual tactics now it comes down to do you have guts can you find the courage in the conversation to put yourself out there a little bit to ask the question but if you don't have the clarity if you're drifting and you feel lost and you feel stuck I don't think that means you're lazy or half-assing it I think you just don't even have a process for how to go from that murky lost place to on fire and that is what I believe everyone can learn I've learned it and I can I can articulate and and set a plan like oh this these are the steps if you're willing to do the work if you want it bad enough that you get clarity and then you start using scripts on top of that so the best script that everybody can use at this moment is you need to sit down your first of all we are prospecting to find the who's that we want to go into business with that we want to take action with and you're not looking for everybody you're looking for those people that you really really enjoy working with that you have the similar goals or core values that the way you behave the way you treat others your character and how you show up okay so the best thing you could do is first decide who you're looking for so I want you to think of your favorite realtor partner business partner builder whatever that you've done business with often people get think of like one or your favorite client if you're a real estate agent who's your favorite why what are all the attributes that they have how do they behave how do they show up what kind of person are they in the world and oftentimes people tell me they're really driven they're client first they're more about doing the right thing than they're about the money they are consistent they are fun and nice to work with they can keep it light but they're you know really focused on the details whatever you give me a list what I just found out for you are what your values are because the things that we admire in other people and the people that we really look up to that we really really appreciate are the qualities that we really like in ourselves or hope to even sharpen on or improve upon well now you've got a list of the ideal partner that you're looking for and so I'm looking for people are really committed that are career oriented that are really loving that are forgiving and loving and understand that they're respectful and looking for people who are courageous will get out of their comfort zone that are looking for growth and improvement all the time so now that I know that when I sit down with you Jeff and I'm asking stories and I'm going where are you from where were you born how'd you get into real estate what do you do for fun who are you married to what do you love about your partner tell me about your kids tell me about you know your career history all the stories that you're telling me are highlighting who you are and what you care about and I'm looking for those nuggets where I say oh gosh he cares about growth he's always studying he's always learning he's always at conferences he's always like like geeking out and stuff like I love that about him why because I'm like that right um he's a guy of service he really wants to give and help other people succeed we have alignment in that now your goals might be to close two transactions this year and mine is to close a hundred million and so our goals don't align but because our values align I would totally dive in and work with you Jeff doing two deals this year now am I going to give you the same amount of energy and time no because it's not warranted for two closings versus the next person who's like I want to double my business and I want to do XYZ so I don't judge my partnerships um or or evaluate my you know partnerships based on what their goals are their goals are their goals I evaluated based on are we aligned in how we behave and what we're doing and what I will tell you is you often very rarely find people who are totally like they're growth oriented they're committed they're courageous they're loving they're they're all the things like you find a very small handful of those people right as we get older we go yeah my best friends fit on one hand right yeah the rest are people that I can really love and appreciate but they probably have one or two of those qualities like they're maybe super committed but they're not super loving all the time their emotional intelligence is maybe a little whatever so I'm gonna focus on the fact that they're really committed and I'm gonna appreciate them for how committed they are and I'm gonna keep you know giving them compliments around that and gratitude around that because I want to focus on the positive and where we do have alignment and keep driving hopefully more alignment so you've got to know who you're looking to be around who's your ideal person that you just kill it when you partner with these kind of people then when you meet people you tell them straight up here's what I'm looking for this year I'm looking for 15 great partnerships people that are all in like I am to giving great service and loving people and solving problems and you know being courageous and what you've just shared with me Jeff over the last 30 minutes about your story and what you did in high school and the way you got into this business you've just shown me how courageous you are and I just feel a lot of alignment like I really like you a lot I would love to do business together can I be your loan officer nice and you smile and shut up and oh here's the two things that people don't do they aren't clear on what they're there for that's the articulation piece and they're not clear in asking can I be your loan officer that's the close it's not a hard close okay now the other part to this is problem solving so I found out I like you we have aligned values and I want to work with you but now I need to know what are your business goals where are you looking to go and what are the challenges that you having getting there right now like I said everybody's got a sales struggle so you might say to me I want to close 20 deals this year and I go awesome what did you close this year and you're like 10 okay so you're going for a double love it I love the big goals where did your business come from out of these 10 that you closed and you're going well I do a little sign calls I do open houses I sometimes call expires I've got some database so I did that I'm like okay cool where are you going to focus for this next year blah blah blah blah okay where's the biggest opportunity for growth where where do you need to like double down right and oh by the way tell me about your lending partnerships in the past what have you liked what have you not liked what have they done well where what's something that pisses you off I'm really trying to figure out like where is the opportunity that I can step into this with my strengths and help you how can I help you make more money how can I save you time how can I lower your stress how can I make you money right now guys is how can I use my scale skills my strengths to help you convert like where are you getting the leads where are you losing them are you losing them to other realtors are you working cold leads are you losing because you're not ballsy enough to ask for information at an open house like where is your struggle and where are my strengths going to come in and help you with that struggle so thank you again this is like an amazing clinic everybody should be sending you some kind of a gift or something please like sir there's someone's good in this conversation and I love it because more often than I know you know this most people go kind of like tactical right out of the gate and there's a place in a time for that which you just transitioned into but it starts with like fix your headspace first right get aligned with who you're really trying to attract you like you said we don't want everybody but I wrote down conversion did you say that you're optimizing for conversion basically like this is the skill set you're offering to bring to the table is conversion absolutely so people choose us because they like us because we're aligned in passion energy values whatever they stick with us because we perform right and really people don't care about you or me Jeff until they realize that we can help them get the result that they want okay now if the result is they just want a new friend okay I'm not really here to make a new friend right like I'm in business I have a lot of friends I'm here to find business partners I'm only looking for 15 because when I take on a partner I am all in I'm committed I'm looking for 15 great people that I can answer the phone late at night do prequels 42 times if that's what it takes sell the hell out of you do you know follow up with the lead 42 times before I give up those are the kinds of things that I'm looking for which is why I'm looking for only a select few people out of everything that you just shared and what you're looking to accomplish and what your problems are I really would like you to be one of those 15 in 2024 can I be your loan officer you guys can't see it but she's got a big smile going right now just waiting for them to reply yeah so so that what I did there's I created scarcity plus I also give you a focus you know I know that in coaching it's like yeah you need 40 people on a list where did that arbitrary number come from from Rick Ruby I don't know it's a bullshit arbitrary number okay you might need 250 you know I've worked with people in small markets that there's 400 agents in that market and very few people do more than one or two or three transactions they're bigger transactions but that's the way it is so could you really just work 15 or 40 probably not okay you kind of need to be known by all of them I I've coached people at work on a market with 6,000 agents and you know they're like I got 250 people on an email list that doesn't work just being like a hey girl you run around to events in your popular and you go hey hey girl hey bro this bump like that is not getting it done what is getting it done is having real conversations and rolling people into your vision your process and your business and then getting a commitment yeah so I've got to ask you when you are out there and again I don't think loan officers are you know lazy or whatever you just said like half-assing it yeah I think they don't know that that's the point the point is I make calls to book appointments I take appointments to find alignment and get commitment and then I follow through on those commitments and then I do it all over again I make calls to book appointments I have a great appointment that gains commitment and then I follow through on commitments but if you're just having meetings where people are like that was nice I really liked her and then you're wondering why the phone doesn't ring and you don't get the leads you didn't that's the art of getting the commitment yeah I was that's popped into my head about about a minute ago was this feels like it's a lost art disagree you know well we haven't had to do sales training yeah the muscle we have not had to do sales training for five years or more so it's like not going to the gym for five years you're not going to be in the best of shape no I mean I've got to re-remember stuff like like listen deals happen in person face to face so often it's like someone will ask for something on an Instagram DM and you just give it to them and move on I was like no no like there's a reason people reach out to us book an appointment even if it's a Zoom call like make appointments get a commitment you know have a follow-up we're doing a sales contest right now Jeff it's pretty fun um started last week and we're going in Nashville and March is a group my goal is to have 25 loan officers that that play in the contest complete the challenge and to go to Nashville and um anyway one of the things is send in your face to faces every week and what is the next follow-up steps and so this week was the first week so someone were like I saw these four agents at a Christmas party and I'm like you're four baby yeah I'm not giving you credit for that like I need you to to expand what did you talk about what are you getting a commitment for you know it could be a hey I want to participate in this Christmas party one year from today this was so moving to me I just telling you right now that's a goal of mine is to be that valuable that I'm a partner for you in a year from now does the commitment does a zoom count oh yeah yeah absolutely and guess what a Zoom's probably even better because if you jump on you there's like a purpose to have a meeting here like we're on a Zoom for a purpose whereas when we see people at a social gathering a lot of times we're like well I don't want to be too forward or I don't want to whatever like it just could be hey I want to talk to by the end of the week I've got this idea for you that's getting a commitment can I call you can I text you can I send you a daily market update can I get you to come to an event can we talk about your stale leads can we look at the last five free approvals we've done and figure out to get these people off the fence can we meet for coffee those those are all commitments there's about you know a hundred things that we could ask for hey when are you doing an open house next can I come sit with you when you do your next listing can I do listing flyers for you if you just asked enough people and get commitment and follow through a commitment you'll keep moving the ball down the field yeah I'll love that I'm keeping an eye on the clock here knowing that there's so much more we could talk about but I'm going to switch to I'm going to be drawn by I'm going to trust my gut because I think this is in line with who everything we've been saying so far and I grab this I think from that webinar told you about of yours I was watching earlier which is um and then you might have already answered this but maybe just put a cherry on top of everything you just took us through which was amazing but I grabbed this sound bite from that webinar and I think was you who said or opened up the conversation with what are loan officers really competing against and I'd love you to maybe unpack that is briefly or whatever you want So what are we competing against we're competing against people's fear we're competing against perception because people's perception is their reality so is the perception that the rates are too high is the perception that the prices are too high is the perception that it's not a good time to buy in the real estate is the perception that you're too busy for my time Is the perception that you're not really going to care about my leads and convert them and work them like crazy? Is the perception that, you know, me affiliating with you might damage my brand or hurt somebody else's feelings? That is it. Like trying to figure out what is the perception, what is in the way to their goal? Because again, they don't care about us, they care about the result that they want when they figure out that we are somebody that can help them get to the result. Then they'll start caring about the fact that we have kids and that we like to wake surf and that we, you know, want to write a book someday or whatever the heck our dreams or goals are. So I think so many people right now are just putting out like me, like me, like me when it's like, no, be the conduit to help people get their goals accomplished and you will be an attraction machine. That's clients, that's business partners, that's recruits, that's whatever. All right. Great. I get to still put another double cherry on this Sunday because you said be the conduit that helps people solve their problems, you know, get what they want. If I'm correct, I noticed you recently attended the the Chaplac Maverick event, right? I did it. Yes. Yeah. So what, what, very smart to do that, by the way, and what that, what that made a note for me in my head was that you're actively seeking information, usually, right? You know, couched in the, you know, for realtors, it's a realtor training event for those who don't know who John Chaplac is, as he says, well known, you know, high level mortgage or I'm sorry, real estate trainer, but you and a couple of people from your team were there. I'm going to assume you were there to learn strategies and tools to help realtor solve problems. 100%. I heard him as my coach. I'm paying him $100. I'm paying him $100 a minute. Love it. Love it. Yeah. So I get 20 minutes of coaching every week and, um, and, you know, I'm attracted to John because he's very intense and I'm an intense person and I feel like, um, partnering around other people that, that think and behave and act on that pace is me sending a message to myself and the universe of like, I want to play big. And this is what I'm up to and this is what I'm about. But I was, I went to John's first event simply because I really want to understand the psyche of real estate agents and these mega team leaders and what are their challenges and what are they dealing with? And like, where do they need me as a, as a, with my strengths and as a, as a mortgage person in a partnership, like, what do they need? And I still haven't totally figured it out. Like, there's a team here in Reno, um, that I really respect these guys. I've had a long term relationship with them, but haven't been doing mortgage business for them over the last four or five years. And they now have 22 agents on their team. They're running all of these lead funnels on into their business. They're working on recruiting. They have virtual staff, nine of them that got an ISA department, they've got, you know, weekly sales trainings that they need to grow their team to now 50 agents and I'm going, okay, so what would a really valuable lending partnership look like? When was last time you had a vendor that actually really provided you value as a leader? Because you're not just a solo agent that is going to an open house this Saturday and needs me available Saturday for pre-approvals. Your problems, what you're thinking about, what your goals are going to require a whole different set of solutions and maybe what I can bring to the table help you and maybe it can't. And so that's where I'm in exploration. Again, I have to first figure out these are kind of people I want to be around. Do they bring the energy? Do I learn from them and they learn from me and blah, blah, blah. And if they are, then I'm trying to go through that process of going, okay, well, how do you really get leverage off of me to help you achieve your goals of going from 20 to 50 agents of hitting these production goals, so on and so forth. So, yes, I've learned a lot being in those rooms plus, you know, you hang out with people that are really successful and driven and all of a sudden you go, wow, like my vision is not big enough, how do I think like that? And furthermore, my whole success has been based on R&D, which is not research and development, it's rip off and duplicate. It's seeing somebody that has what I want and saying, okay, I just want to do what they do so I can get what they've got. I can't keep doing what I've always been doing and expecting different results. So finding a leader that's grown from zero to 1200 transactions in 24 months and studying how did you do it? What did you do? Okay, teach me, can I pay you, can you coach me? That's been a key to my success. Yeah, and I think that's really smart and that just goes back to, I think everything we've been saying is that for the right person, if that's you listening to this, you know, maybe that's one of the things you do is, you know, help age and solve problems with those different areas they've got in their business, which oftentimes is the same issues we have as an originator, whether it's, you know, how do I do the social thing, the video thing, or how do I, you know, structure my plan for the year or whatever. Whatever that kind of skill set either is you have or you can learn, right, and bring that to the conversation, would that be fair? Totally. Absolutely. I mean, look in the next 12 months, there's Tom Ferry events, there's Brian Bathini events, there's Cheb Black, there's EXP con, there's Keller Williams Family Union, there's Remax, whatever they call that, like there's so many different opportunities to go into those rooms and just being there, you're differentiating yourself. So I 100% back that behavior. Love it. Well, listen, I've got a whole like page of like tactical notes here, we didn't even get to. So would you be willing to come back maybe in 2024? Yeah, I'd love to come back. And you know, maybe funnest to send me an email with some of them, Jeff, because I could recruit, I could record some mini segments, if you like. I'd love to know what you wanted to know, because that'll help me just with my general content and serving my community. And then maybe you could send them out as follow up nuggets or tease the podcast with them. I'd be happy to do that. There you go. Well, this has been fantastic and amazing. Thank you so much. I'm glad it went the direction that we did, because I know you've got your pulse on the industry and I like to think in some way, you know, perhaps I do as well. And I think this vibe that bubbled up was really, really what people needed to hear. Well, and I need to tell you and for your audience, I'm sure most people have been following you, realize how powerful and brilliant you are and the product that you're giving loan officers with the class materials and being able to invite agents and give them something of value is huge and probably are subscribed in members. And I hope they are. But I believe that your presentation skills have to improve in 2024. So having, you know, Jeff's work of, here's what to do and here's how to do it. And here's what to say. We all need to get in front of more groups. We need to work on speaking and presenting. We're in sales. And so you provide that solution. You've given that to my team and many people have never taught classes of taught class and they've got a lot of confidence from doing it. They've gotten results from doing it. So thank you for what you're doing in the world to support all of us too. Thank you. I appreciate that. For me, you know, I just come from that same place of, you know, wanting to serve and help people, you know, break through some of those barriers. So for those who want to follow you, it is Instagram, right? Shea Giff, is that correct? Yeah, I live on Instagram. So come find me on Instagram at Shea Giff. And I just, I just launched a Shea LaGiffre.com website. That's only a one-pager. But for people who want to look to work with me or join my team and have a discovery call, I even do one off coaching for anybody that raises their hand and, you know, that feels stuck in any of those processes we talked about. So you could go book time on that website and or reach out to me on Instagram DMs. Well, I have to say, you know, when people ask me, you know, about, oh, I'm thinking about a change and from where they're currently at, you know, the first two things I ask them is about culture and leadership, right? And I, again, you and I didn't talk. This isn't a setup. But, you know, I've obviously had some level of engagement and relationship with the team at Guild now for, I don't know, at least half a dozen years and they call leaders like that. Guild is on the short list, right? The culture and leadership there, if you get a sense of today, just from today's conversation of what that looks and feels like, like, it's there, like that's it. So if there's something, yeah, if you guys want to check out that out for more, then obviously contact Shayla. All right. Hey, I appreciate it so much. So awesome to see you every single time. I'm grateful. I'm grateful through. We did it. Thank you, Jeff. This has been a lot of fun. All right. Well, listeners, you know what to do. If you like this episode, please leave us a review. Otherwise, we'll see you on the next one. And bye for now. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you, agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attracting convert agents into referral partners. 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