How to Level Up Your Value to Real Estate Agents

Hey, what's up, Jeff Zimfer. Welcome to another episode of the mortgage marketing radio podcast thrilled to have you here a real quick reminder, if you haven't yet joined our private Facebook group, just for podcast listeners, that's you go over to Facebook and type in the search mortgage marketing radio. That's our private group, just for listeners. And we're doing some extra things over there as a matter of fact, last week, we did a live stream with Chantinozian, who's one of the top producing mortgage bankers in the country. We did it with Cindy Ertman with Sue Woodard. We had a handful of loan officers on there that we're talking through. What do referral partners and clients need from us here today? So if you're not a member of the group and you're not active in there, we'll go join number one. Number two, let me know what your biggest challenge is right now in the current market, go over to Facebook, mortgage marketing, dot radio, look that up. Okay, so question for you. Are you scratching your head, wondering, are you curious, are you frozen like a deer in the headlights with how to show up for real estate agents in light of the NAR situation in light of the massive, I would say, fear in some cases, uncertainty, lack of direction. Help people need agents specifically in regards to the current market, the current NAR situation, right, the challenges that people are having around buyer affordability, what do you do? Well, in a moment, my special guest is going to answer those questions and more for you. But before we get into that, I've got another win of the week coming to you from one of our members at my agent classes. This, of course, is where we help you, the originator in the eyes of a real estate agent, be seen, not as a solicitor, not as a vendor, but we help you become a partner and appear, how? Because you'll lead with education and value and content, which flips the script, no more chasing, no more begging, no more co-calling, no more paying for leads. You build a personal brand that helps you rise above the noise, helps you differentiate yourself and become the pre-eminent choice amongst real furrow partners in your local community. As a matter of fact, Janelle Davis, she is one of our my agent classes members, she has been with us for years, she just posted in the group that her board of realtors, president, reached out to her and said, Janelle, would you please teach a class on AI, chat GPT, Gemini? And how agents can adapt and use artificial intelligence in their business? Now, why did Janelle get chosen? Well, because Janelle has been out there building her brand, building her presence as a facilitator and teacher of classes. And she was immediately thought of to facilitate this class on AI by the president of her local board of realtors, who just so happens to also be an agent at Keller Williams. And here's the icing on the cake, not only does Janelle get to teach this class to her local board of realtors, she also gets to do it for agents from three Keller Williams offices in her region, unsolicited invite. As Janelle says, plant the seeds and keep going big opportunities arise from this stuff. The name of the game, guys, is brand awareness. The name of the game is called 15 mile famous within a 15 mile radius, how many referral partners would recognize you, your name, if you showed up on their social media feeds, if an email landed in their inbox, if a phone call came from your text message, how many of them would they go, oh, that's Janelle, that's the person who hosts those educational classes. That's exactly what happened for Janelle and Janelle is going to be getting in front of hundreds of agents with the implied endorsement from the board of realtors president. And also at these three Keller Williams offices. Would you like to learn more about how we help you do that in my agent classes, real simple, write this down, get it on your phone right now, go to mortgagemarketing.pro. It grab a time on my calendar. We have a 30 minute conversation and we see if we're the right fit for each other, mortgage marketing.pro. Okay, talk about building a brand talking about leading with education, talking about 15 mile famous. My special guest for this week's episode is a second time returning guest. It's been one year since I've had Matt Weaver on our show. Matt Weaver is ranked as the number one mortgage alone originator in the United States. He's been the number one originator in Florida since 2020. His team has helped over 25,000 families achieve the dream of home ownership. And Matt is somebody who's perfected the personal brand of being a pre-imminent loan officer in his area that gets chosen without selling, without chasing, without dealing with weenie head agents. And you know what, one of the primary ways Matt markets himself events. You're going to hear on our conversation today how Matt has got out in front of this NAR settlement issue and has five or six events dealing with the NAR settlement, not giving legal advice or getting down to the nitty gritty of that. Right? More importantly, helping agents make the transition. His class is winning the buyer presentation, taking advantage of the NAR settlement. We in matching classes have a very similar class to that. Once again, you heard me in the intro talk about it. If you want to learn more about that, you go to my calendar mortgage marketing.pro. I don't know if you heard the podcast last week, but you heard champinozian the other top mortgage professional in the country. Who also within three weeks of the NAR settlement got out in front of his agents and held an event and is holding multiple events and classes and in office presentations. Because now is the time as you probably have heard for years now is the time to grab market share now is the time to go all in. And so today the conversation with Matt is a clinic on your value proposition on how to have relevant conversations with your real estate agent partners. What is your process? How do you perfect your process? How do you articulate your value and how you can help your real estate agents do the same so that you can win the business. So that you can be chosen. Then you can hear a little bit about Matt's consulting company at the end. This is not for most. It's for the few who want to be the best. Matt has as has decided to take it upon himself now that he's established himself as the best to help other people get there. So you're going to hear a little bit more about his company. Over there at floor 13 links are in the show notes to follow Matt to go check out those resources. It's a great conversation. So if you've ever wanted to get an inside look at how one of the most successful top producing originators in the country by whatever units measure volume or whatever that you measure that this is the conversation today. So I'm confident you'll enjoy this conversation reach out to Matt. Do you have any more questions? Let them know how impactful you thought the podcast was using the show note links. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show about we were welcome back to the show. Thank you, Jeff. And thank you for the opportunity. It's great to see you. I can't believe it's been already a year since the last time we've done this. So it's a great honor with great excitement. Yeah, I know right time flies and it's actually timely because a few things have happened since we last talked a little something called the the NAR settlement. And I think that's where I'd like to just jump right into the conversation here. I want to start with. You know, we've had a little bit of time for the dust to settle on this, but before we get into how you've responded and specifically what you're doing. I wanted to get your take on like your reaction, you know, there's a lot of different narratives out there, right? Like this is going to change the industry. This is going to friggin lower buyers agents commissions and all the noise you've heard. What is your professional take on the and a little bit like yet to be seen, but what are you kind of seeing down the road, the impact of this NAR settlement? The first thing is is that I think we can agree that there's one thing constant in our industry and that is change. And I say to the great group of agents that I speak to all the time, competitive people like change. And the reason why competitive people like change is because if things remain the same for too long, too many people will figure it out. So the competitive person, okay, the competitive person understands that change is opportunity in disguise. It's opportunity in disguise. So the one who can adapt to the change and accept it and understand where the value is behind it, then they're going to of course excel at a higher level. And a lot are going to just go ahead and leave or go ball themselves up in a corner. So specifically with the NAR settlement, okay, there's a lot of noise that's wrapped around it and that's what a lot of the fear peddlers do and a lot of the media does and so on and so forth. So the first thing I think we have to agree on is we have to be careful who we're listening to when it comes to specific things in life in general. But specific back to the NAR settlement, when you take a look at some of the changes that are going to take place, I happen to believe it's some of the best changes for agents and it probably should have happened a long time ago and here's where I'm going with it. Buyer broker agreement. Buyer broker agreement. Now that's nothing new. However, if it's going to be an industry standard, which I think it's going to be, I think that should have happened a long time ago and the reason I say it should have happened a long time ago is in protection to the real estate agent. If you stop and take a look at their business, Jeff, to date, okay, 50% of their business list side business has been under a hiring basis. You go, you make a presentation, the prospect, the homeowner makes a decision if they're going to hire you by signing a listing agreement. But then the other 50% of the business by side, you make a presentation, they say, hey, I might work with you. There's no allegiance or loyalty and then they go out and work with you and hopefully they buy off of you. So what's going to happen to the 50% of the business is it's going to be under a hiring basis. So if you stop and think about that, now the question becomes which agent can convey value, which agent can strengthen their presentation skills, which agents are formalizing their offer. They're offering to a customer to make the hiring process simple. So I think it's the best change that can happen for the real estate agent that can understand that and process that which most do. So that's my opinion on the matter with that one specific change. A lot of it is still very vague in terms of the compensation and the structure flowing through the buyer over to the agent. But you've seen a lot of the agencies have already come out figuring out how to adapt, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, et cetera, et cetera. So all that's going to get worked out. The net result of it all is the agent that has strong presentation skills knows how to convey their value is going to succeed at a high level. No question about it. Right. 100% and all right. So part two of that question, this is how I see it. I see this this NAR settlement and opportunity and I'm probably confident that you do as well based on what some of the activities I've seen you doing is I see this is probably one of the greatest opportunities we've had as originators in a long time to further and deeper integrate ourselves into the buyer agent process without a doubt without a doubt. A lot of the stuff that I go over with our great agents and our lunchens and seminars is it's time that we start formalizing ourselves formalizing our offerings, but here watch not just the real estate agent. How about loan originators? How formalized are you in your process because you see if the agent is going to start formalizing themselves, then you need to be formalized as well. So what we go over carefully, Jeff, and we have a lot of fun discussion in our lunchens with agents. We're talking about the power of a scripted process. We talk about your opening, your elevator, the basic elevator, whether it be in the mortgage side of the industry or the real estate side of the industry. How many can eloquently talk to a customer and eloquently I say deliver their value propositions and let's call it 45 to 60 seconds. So as an example, real estate agent says to a loan originator, why would I use you over the competitor down the street? Can you eloquently deliver to them within a minute to a minute and a half your value propositions and why they would choose you over the competitor or vice versa, the real estate agent? Can they eloquently deliver why that person would choose to list or buy real estate from them in an effective manner? So when you think about it, it sounds like the basic fundamentals and they are the basic fundamentals, but the truth of the matter is if we don't have the fundamentals, then we're not going to succeed at a high level in the hiring process. Because remember, the buyer has to now hire you. And so in hiring, they're interviewing. Yeah, exactly. And that's that there'll be some interesting dynamics that come out of that, regards to whether on certain properties, if the buyer agent composition is part of the structure of the deal or not. And then this gets a little bit in the weeds in terms of different options that agents put together regarding buyer agent agreements in terms of the levels of comp and all that kind of jazz. So then back to the value proposition, right? Let's take the loan officer side of that. Is this related to your four pillars of value? Well, okay. So Jeff, what I'm constantly doing is I'm coming up with unique value propositions all the time. And the way that we come up with our unique value propositions and the way anyone can consider coming up with a unique value proposition is understanding who your customer is number one. And then understanding what their pain point is and then delivering a solution to their pain. So if we can deliver a solution to our customer's pain, then we have a value proposition. Okay. So my four pillars of value have been my foundational unique value proposition and offering to the agent that I served for 14 years. However, we're constantly adding to that based on market adjustments, market changes and so on and so forth. So for example, multiple offers. I've been training on how to compete and win in a multiple offer for 14 straight years. Now in those past 14 years, we've seen markets in multiple offers and then we see markets that were not in multiple offers. However, that consistency and training really gave us a big boost in 2020, 2021 because the agent community said to themselves here locally. If I'm going to get into a multiple offer situation, it sounds like I need to be working with Matt and his team. Okay. But it goes back to my understanding on whom my customer was from the beginning. I think what's so important for originators is to pick a lane. They got to pick a lane because singleness of purpose is the key to production. We cannot allow interest rates to determine who our customer is. Okay. So for example, 2020, we had the greatest refinance boom in US history I want to be able to say. But yet if you looked at my personal production, I probably had the lowest percentage of refinance business. Isn't that interesting? Okay, because I knew who my customer was. It was always the agent. Okay. Yeah. No, I know. You've, you know, you had to say no to that. I remember we talked last time. You said, was that difficult by the way to kind of turn that business down? Not at all. Not at all because you see when you're 100% focused on the customer that you're serving, it's almost like I have horse blinders on. I just, I'm infatic about being a specialist. Okay. Now my team and system, we do have a process flow to handle or refinancing query. Do not get me wrong. But we're not actively looking for that. We're not actively promoting it because we believe in singularity of purpose. Well, I think what you're really saying there is you're very clear on who your number one customer is and that's the real estate agent. So you're not willing to sacrifice everything related to that just to catch some easy money around the refi and then you jeopardize those relationships in your future business without a doubt, without a doubt. So I think a lot of us and a lot of us had to live through this that I've lived through it before in fairness to an originator. So I've seen the movie before. Okay. So in knowing that I knew not to fall victim to that. So a lot of originators now live through that for the first time and I'm sure there's so many out there that are seeing themselves. I'm not going to fall victim to that the next time. So that's just part of the learning process and the growing process and so on, which makes it so fun. But we have to pay attention and that goes back to our business being by design versus default. Right. Can you briefly articulate with your four pillars of value R and if you've added additional or what does those look like today? Absolutely. So by number one offering to real estate agents is my thorough pre-approval process. It operates seven days a week 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. 364 days a year only close Christmas day. It's been the same exact value proposition for 14 straight years. So here's what's interesting. So someone who would be new to our system. They'd say 364 a year. It sounds like a punch line. Jeff are busiest days are 4th of July Memorial Day Labor Day weekend because the agent community knows that they can rely on us. So when I say seven days a week 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. 364 we're answering the phone live. There's no text message back or perhaps or we'll get back to you tomorrow. So we're really infatic about that and it was built 14 years ago. So it's been the same offering. If you came to my local community here my local market they would tell you oh yeah seven days a week 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. 364. So our agents understand that. My second pillar of test offer. Oh they've tested it for years and we have a lot of fun in doing that. No question about it. So that's a basic fundamental when you think about it and here's what's interesting Jeff. 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14. I mean it was very unorthodox for a loan officer to say they're available on the weekends. Not especially holidays. Now in the past few years people are starting to catch on and they're starting to do the same offering. But it was very unorthodox going back 14 years ago which is what I like to do. I like to do the direct opposite of what others are doing. That's just been ingrained in me from training. But if you look at my second pillar of value my offer process. I have a seven step offer process that's designed to compete and win and eliminate buyer competition. It's been something I've been training agents on for 14 years once again. So it's not overnight. It's not something that I just pulled out of a hat. Okay, it's a process that holds the number one ranking in the state of Florida for most contracts accepted for what now four straight years. In the most we'll say aggressive markets. I think we have ever seen 2020, 2021. It's not to brag. I'm sharing this as a point of inspiration that when you know who your customers and you're focused on that. Then your offerings are focused around them. And then of course you you can script out that process and make sure you're consistent on it. On my third pillar of value is my service advantage. Okay, the biggest thing we can give to agents in addition to all the the great tools and unique value propositions. What's the number one thing in agent wants and the answer to that is communication. Super important to them. Okay, so my service advantage is constantly communicating with them. They know exactly where it stands from the onset of someone getting pre approved through the pre approval process all the way through to closing all the micro steps in between. So I'm constantly updating them. They understand where it's at. We have all the loan products set out there. And so we have so many other parts within service advantage, which is pillar three that I can't go into too much detail here because I'd be here for another hour. But that's a big part of our of our offering. And then my fourth pillar of value was growing together. I host about 130 different seminars and lunchens a year all in effort and design to increase market share and give my agents the competitive advantage. I take a great deal of time on my content. You see, if we want to perform in front of our agent group, we have to understand a few things. Number one, an agent only has so much time for learning. So if they're choosing to come and learn from you, how serious are you taking it? How much time did you put into the content and delivery? So we have to go back to have that firm understanding because I don't take anyone for granted. I'll have rooms ranging from 50 in the room upwards of 1000. And I'm grateful if there's just one. Because that one person is important to me. But I take it very, very seriously in my content that I write out, which I'm continuously and endlessly writing content. Very little. Do I actually talk about loan product? I don't even talk about loan product. It's boring. Yes. Yes. Interesting, interesting. Yeah, you and I are just so closely interwoven there with the whole leading grow together, leading with education, not pitching product because that's what they expect you to do. So the resistance is high. And you've clearly developed quite a name for yourself in terms of your events because you've been doing them for so long. And you probably have, well, not probably I'm sure you have a reputation of having some of the best events that are available for realtors to attend. Fortunately, and I say it humbly, we do have great attendance. We have a great track record on it. And it's because I took it serious from the beginning. Now you don't take yourself too serious because then you're a walking stiff. But what I mean by taking this serious is is truly putting together content that's relatable to them that they can transmit through their business, having it professionally organized too many times. Do you see? If you asked me or if let's say a real estate agent said, hey, just come and speak five minutes at my company sales team or company meeting, I should say. There's going to be two philosophies. There's going to be the loan officer that says, okay, I'm just going to go speak for five or 10 minutes and just wing it. I don't wing anything. I believe the audience deserves nothing but the best. And my mentor hasn't pounded into me that everything is a scripted process. So get used to it, script out what you're going to say and follow a script because the audience deserves it. So if you were to all here ready, so just last night my wife started, my wife and I started watching for the first time, the roast of Tom Brady. Okay, I don't know if you saw that on Netflix. I would see that yet. So I have not seen the whole thing. It's three hours for God's sake. I don't even know how you roast someone. Oh, wow. But that's neither here nor there. So we watched about 45 minutes to an hour of it. Now comedy is scripted. Everyone thinks that while they're just coming off the jokes off the top of their head. I mean, if you watch the whole show, it's one big scripted process. Okay. So are we prepared when we go and sit and have a coffee appointment with a real estate agent? When we go and are asked to go speak for five to ten minutes at a sales meeting, when we go in front of a room for an hour or two or three, how prepared are we? How serious are we taking it? And do you rehearse and perform? Okay. Do you rehearse what you're saying? Do you go over it? My kids could probably illustrate to you my value propositions because they heard it so much in my home. Okay. I'm constantly going over my material over and over again, my jokes, my lines, everything. Okay. Without a doubt. I mean, I have humor coaches. Yeah. Really? Yeah. You've obviously continued knowing who you are. Obviously, you know, you continue to layer on the quality and the skill level, right? Because obviously, you know, roll it back 14 years or whatever. You probably weren't as efficient or effective or as impactful as you are today. Oh, no. I was a walking stiff. I mean, it was like, you know, because I was very regimented and, you know, but what it is because we're analyticals typically in this business. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in the mortgage business. So analyticals are usually, you know, they don't perform well under pressure. Okay. So what can ease that performance is, of course, being scripted, understanding what to say, when to say it. And, you know, you hear that word script and everyone gets like nervous. Am I going to be a robot? Not at all. Watch ready? Are actors and actresses robots? No. It's because they practice. You know, like the old saying, I don't know if you know the book, exactly what to say by Phil Jones. He's got a quote in there that says, the worst time to think of what to say is in the moment you need to say it. Well, 100%. I mean, never want to be caught off guard like that. I mean, all the best performers on planet earth, okay, are all practiced and rehearsed. Well, I mean, you're scripting anyway, it's just as you're scripted any good, right? Whatever it is that you're saying is a script. That's really cool. So back to then, the four-pillar process. Thank you. You covered that. That's really great. I love the, it was a real shift for me for a moment there of how serious are you taking it? Because what's interesting is what flashed in my mind when you said that was the image of not only when I was an originator and doing getting up there and speaking. But then of all the originators, I can see across the country who get up in that exact scenario. You said and have no idea what's going to come out of their mouth in the next 10 minutes. Yeah. And you wonder what meetings, all that stuff, you know, all the excuses and noise. They give themselves about why classes don't work or whatever, right? Right. On the one hand, I give them a little bit of credit for having a audacity to not prepare. I mean, wow. I mean, God bless you. But on the other hand, it doesn't work. The audience deserves the best from you. And it's your job to give it to him. And remember, I lived by the one saying, there's no such thing as a small audience, just a small speaker. So no matter what, no matter what, you could have 10 in the room. I'm going to perform at the highest level. You could have 4,000 in the room. I'm going to perform at the highest level. Or try to at least. That's all. I got some nuggets to bring back to my team there. Also, your content, we're going to, I guess, come back to the NAR content. Yeah. I looked at your schedule and it looks like you're doing six from correct five or six events about the NAR settlement. As a matter of fact, if I'm correct, let's just, uh, what is that? Winning the buyer presentation and taking advantage of the NAR settlement. Yes. What are you doing there? Okay. Well, think about it. Okay. So now, um, the buyer presentation has now just turned into a job interview. Okay. So it's a job interview from the agent to the buyer. So how well prepared are they in the job interview? So here's what I asked the great group, um, who here remembers a job interview. And they all raised their hand. Then I asked them, were you prepared? And they all say, yes. Now watch the next question. Then I asked them, did you have a script? And they all say no. But then I say to them, well, yes, you did. Your script was your resume. So when the employer asked you, what was your background? You'd say, well, I worked here, here, here, and here. That's a script, which is your resume. Then they asked you where you went to school. You said, I went here. That's a script, which is your resume. Then they asked you what your background was and so on and so forth. So in a job interview, you were prepared and you had a script. Okay. So in the buyer presentation, how prepared are you? What are your opening lines? What is your unique, what are your unique value propositions? What is your process? And what I share with them, Jeff, is a lot of the notes that I took from the Ritz Carlton Leadership Center. I had one of the great speakers from the Ritz Carlton fly down for the great group of agents that I was working with at the time. And they went over what was called creating memorable customer service. And creating defining moments. But within that, they went over the fact of journey mapping your process. So I journey mapped my process 14 years ago. I took a big white board and I said, what is it going to look like from the moment someone calls me and says, I'd like to get pre-approved all the way through the funding and the 32 micro steps in between. That's how we create consistency in a process. So I challenge the room that I'm in. With when was the last time you journey map your process. Okay, which most don't. But if we're looking for the hire, okay, so watch, if someone's not signing a buyer broker agreement, then it's not really a hiring basis. So they're not going to scrutinize you as much. They're just going to say, fine, I'll work with you. But if you're asking them to sign with you, now they're going to interview you a little further. So what is your process from beginning to end? I ask agents all the time, what are your hours of operation? Do you think it's important? And watch, loan originators, do you think it's important? And don't give me that 24 or 7 crap. Nobody wants to speak with you at 3 a.m., okay? So my hours of operation have been clear for 14 straight years. So I think what's happening is that the level of standard and professionalism in the real estate industry, which a lot of the great agents want and deserve, is going to increase because it's a hiring process. And that buyer should be obligated, at least in some way, shape or form, with using that agent. So we break down the buyer presentation from beginning to end, and I share a lot of experience that I've had over the years through some of the greatest mentors I've had on the importance of process, openings, on the importance of conveying value, okay, and so on and so forth. And you're providing them some examples of dialogues or scripts, perhaps that they can use with their buyer consultations? Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. And, you know, so I get this involved because, you know, first of all, I'm trying to give them a competitive advantage, okay, because their competition doesn't talk this way. Our competition in our industry doesn't talk this way, okay. So you can really create a contrast. See, like I'll give you an example. When I go into a luncheon, that's a job interview for me. So based on my delivery and presentation skills, they're going to make a decision if they want to hire me for their clients or not. Do we agree on that? Yeah, see? So if I'm going to go present in front of a group, that is a job interview. My presentation skills. Okay. So if I go in here, I was just going to say, I know there's a little bit of a delay here, but I was going to say, that's what I love about events. And of course, you do events very, very well, but to put it into context of you just said job interview, if you're listening to this right now, and you're like, oh, you know, I need to grow my business. Some of my partners have gotten out of the business. I talked to one the other day who said, is all his referral partners are dying, because he's older, but, you know, it's like we need to continually add to the bus, right? And continue to recruit and add referral partners, in most cases. Events, correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is why I'm bullish on events, is your job interview now is one to many. Like if you've got 20 agents in the room, you now have 20 job interviews. Is that how you look at it? Well, you know what it is, is a lot of them are current customers as well, current clients. And so I look at, so my trainings and lunches are a true value proposition within my offering. And so when you stop and think about it, it's a little bit of a different set of circumstances. So as an example, if you said to be Matt, how many happy hours have you done in the past year? The answer? Zero. If you said Matt, how many times have you brought on multiple guest speakers? Zero. Okay. So it's not really a party-esque atmosphere. Okay, it's an atmosphere of learning, training, and how they can adopt what I'm saying, and weave it into their process flow and business to increase that extra sale. Right. If I were to bring a lot of agents to the forefront, they would say, you know, last year, or let's just use an example, you know, probably 20 or 30% of my production was due to getting homes under contract due to his training. You see, so I look at it as an opportunity to give back to the current clientele base, first and foremost, because 50% of my room is current clientele base, then there's exposure to new, so there could be a portion there that may say, hey, you know what, I identify with him. And then, Jeff, there's a portion that'll never use me. It's just how it is. So if you stop and think about it, if you want to be an originator to a high level, to a high degree, which I have to tell you something, and this is okay, most don't, and that's respectable. Okay, but we have to be honest with ourselves. If we want to succeed at the absolute highest level in this industry, then we have to understand that we're going out almost like for an election. Now, forget current day politics, but at the end of the day, what's happening is, is that if you rank number 2,741 in your state, the people have spoken. If you rank number one in your state, the people have spoken. Either way, the people have spoken. So our job is to maintain our base supporters. Then our job is to find the swing voter, to try and help them, to try to come over to our services. And then we must understand that there's a portion of population that'll never vote for us ever. And that's how it works. And that's just the fact of life, and that's okay, like you said. I think what I want to do is just kind of reiterate, in terms of mechanics of how you stay in front of agents, you've got this incredible personal brand. I heard the other day, it's called Be 15 Mile Famous. And if you've heard of that, right? Which is how many people, how many, I'm using it like crazy, because it really makes sense in the context of us, where it's like how many agents actually know Matt Weaver's name within 15 miles. In your case, I'm going to guess a lot, what you've done, because if you've ran for office, and you've built this platform, and you've gone out there, and you've done other things, I was going to ask you this, and then we'll get back into some specifics of your process. In terms of ranking the various ways you can create awareness for real estate agents, and consider being chosen, being getting elected by them. How would you rank the events you've done versus other methods? Well, remember, events don't mean anything, unless the base framework of the process is intact 100%. So remember, I'm able to go out and speak to the level that I'm able to speak to, because my operational infrastructure is sound. You see, I could have the best opinion of gas, as I say business by doing, meaning nothing, meaning the kitchen's not burning. Well, you're doing events, is that what you mean? Well, not only just that, the kitchen's not burning. Number one, and number two, remember, you have to have the service levels to back up what that mouth is writing. So I spent years in development of process to allow me to speak in front of a room of 300 and encourage every single one of them to write a 10-day closing. You see, because they're not going to, they're not going to impact my operational infrastructure. No one's going to tap my capacity. You see, we spoke a little earlier about this. If you think about it, we spoke a little earlier about this. I don't run a branch, meaning I don't have loan officers under me. I don't have any loan officers going out and getting their own business and writing business under me. It's my own business. So why am I sharing that? I'm sharing that because I have a team of 41 that are my production crew to support my personal production. So as an example, I'm like a mini company within the company. So I control the entire process from beginning to end. Underwrite, funding, closing, everything. So to your point, that base framework has to be intact before we could ever go and present. Because if our mouth is writing checks our bodies and our cash, we're out of business. Absolutely. No, very, very important point. Yeah, because there's what I've heard it said in the past. Does the internal reality match the external perception? That's right. That's right. And clearly you've built that process so that it does. So you can say 10 day closing. And then if you say that and they get in there and it breaks, well, now you've lost credibility. So what I would say is the notoriety and the 15 mile radius as you'd mentioned. The events are the icing on the cake. If you speak to these agents, whether they use me or not, they would just say he sets a standard. Remember the ultimate professional always wins. And what do I mean by that? I know our society has gotten a lot more comfortable. Okay, I know that loan officers have gotten more comfortable. But I have to be honest with you. Remember, oh, well, you're ready. I could tell you that I have plenty of agents that use my services and their closest friend is in the business, meaning the mortgage business. And the reason why they're using my services is because their closest friend doesn't have the bedside manner, may wear a backwards hat, may haven't shaved for three or four days or whatever. Okay, and thinks it looks cool. But watch for the agent when push comes the shove and their commissions on the line. They want the professional. So if we take a look at that, I don't mean to insult anyone. I want us to think about this for a second, trying to give it from a point of inspiration. If we stop and think about this for just a second, you can never go wrong as the ultimate professional. Do we agree? So it's always going to be a win. So someone's going to say, no one's going to say, well, I'm not going to use him because he's too professional. What can be the loss is I'm not going to use them because they look and seem unprofessional. So remember, if we're looking to be elected, if we're looking to be number one, okay, then every vote counts. You want to minimize the reasons for them to count you out. 100%. You know, whether that's the backward hat, that's the whatever. But it's like, yeah, I mean, let's just face it, we do judge a book by its cover. Without a doubt. I mean, without a doubt. And so that hasn't gone away. What's gone away is the new gurus coming out that really haven't done it themselves. Okay. And so that's the stuff that we have to be very careful with in Mindflow. I mean, whether you're in the industry or not, I mean, even with just in life. I mean, everyone now has a microphone. I mean, I always look at what someone's background is before I ever listen to what they have to say. That's a good point. Consider the source. All right. I'm going to fast track a little bit for sake of time. Two other items I want to talk about before we wrap up. Coming back to the NAR classes that you're teaching, which is, I'm also doing the same with my clients in helping, you know, prop them up to be able to go into the market and teach some of those relevant classes. I was curious if back to what we kind of opened up with where we see this as a tremendous opportunity for us as mortgage professionals to insert us into the value process that they have with their clients. Have you done additional things, say during that event or that class that you bring to the surface or showcase as additional ways that you can help them? Right. Get the buyer to say yes, secure their commission, maybe deal with a commission gap strategy, anything like that? Well, presently, we're staying away from the commission part of the talk. Because if you stop and think about it, that has not been 100% ironed out. In the state of Florida, there's about 50 to 60 very smart broker owners, attorneys, and so on that are all collectively working together to restructure the Florida as is contract. So that part has not been 100% ironed out. As we can see, there's already been a delay now from July 1st to August. So all of that stuff is a little tricky to talk about. I'm more of a facts and figures person, and I'll address that when that time comes to the audience. Because I don't want any misunderstandings there. But as far as how to get a buyer broker agreement signed, oh, without a doubt. I mean, we're going through the various steps of creating value. Okay, so if you take a look at value, there's a lot of different pieces to it that we all want. So for example, I go over to the group I break down value in an acronym. Okay, so value can vary amongst people. A stands for all everyone wants to feel important. L stands for love. People love their money. You stands for unique, unique value proposition you got to have one. And E stands for experience everyone wants an experience. So if we can understand how to convey value in that way, then we'll understand how to really give them what they want. So let's use L for love as an example. People love their money. They just do. Okay, so I'll ask the group who here likes to overpay for a price of good a service. And they all raise their hand. And it's because you love your money. But let's accept that for a moment. Now moving along from there, your customer does too. So what are your negotiating skills and techniques that you're sharing with them? Interesting, isn't it? Most agents don't share negotiating techniques. Okay, in a buyer presentation, they just say I'm going to make an offer. We can't be so passive about an offer. Okay, in today's market, you either have to figure out how to eliminate the buyer company. Okay, in today's market, you either have to figure out how to eliminate the buyer competition, or how to get them a better deal on a home, which is a better price, seller credits, maybe credits to offset closing costs, lower rates, et cetera, et cetera. So what's a pain point right now of a customer interest rates? Okay, so how is an agent handling that in the buyer presentation? So the typical agent response would be home buyer. Interest rates are very high, agent. I know. Okay, but watch, does the agent have control? And they do. Because an agent's negotiating skills and techniques can determine the home buyer's interest rate. I want you to think about that. Okay, so that's the way that we think. I saw a clip from one of your events where I think if I'm correct, what you did was, you just said you can control the interest rate. And I think that's what your video clip said. And then you kind of segue into the seller buy down. Am I correct? 100% because if you think about it, watch, can a buyer pay for a, for a temporary buy down? No. So that means a seller has to pay for a temporary buy down, right? Okay, so how do you get a seller to pay? And agents negotiating skills will determine their ability to get a credit to in turn determine their interest rate. It's really simple. Yeah, and see that. That's where I think the deep integration between you and the realtor is so deep in that particular point. Because as you know, most agents don't know how to talk about seller buy downs. Correct. And this is where you come in. You see, there's a lot of offshoots from you showcasing that in a class. And the agents' minds are kind of blown and they're like, well, how do I do that? And then you have your, you know, you're very subtle called action or whatever of, you know, let's get together after the class or whatever the thing is. Because the way I look at events, multiple purposes, but one of them is to drive conversations post event. Right, right. And so I get them to think a little differently because I think a little differently. I remember I said it a little earlier, I tried to do the opposite of what others do. Okay. And I try to, I'm always challenging my thinking to think in a direct opposite of what others are thinking. Okay, so it's really, I call it think 13. Okay, so 13 thinking is what we refer to it as. Yeah, I love that. We're going to talk about that before we wrap up your consulting company. One more thing I got to ask you just because I was really curious about this. I noticed you have what's called an agent takeoff call. Can you explain what that is and what's the purpose? Absolutely. So for an agent that can't attend one of our events or for an agent that maybe wants to get exposed to what it is that we're doing in our services, they can arrange an agent takeoff call and that takeoff call is to go over our unique value propositions, how to integrate with us, how to start working with us, our pre-approval system and process and so on. We really are partnered with our agents to a very high degree. So it's not just the relationship of high would you like to get your customer pre-approved. It's we take them on the journey with the free and through the pre-approval process, through the offer process, from contract to close all the way through. So it is a true and genuine partnership that we have with them. So as far as our unique value propositions, a call is almost needed because we're constantly pumping out new value propositions. So it would take some time to go over each and every single one of them. I have to be so selective in my lunchens which ones I'm going to be covering because we have so many of them. And that's because remember Jeff, my philosophy is that we can always be better. Okay, we can always be better. Now we always and we have a firm understanding that status quo dies. So we are very uncomplacent in what we do here at the Matt Weaver team. We're constantly thinking of something new because it can always be better. So an agent take off covers our process flow or unique value propositions, how to begin with us, how to get integrated with us and so on. So it's an exciting thing for them. It's efficient for them. Not everyone can make it to an event, which we understand and respect. And so if they can't, they can schedule a call. Is that a Zoom call with those visuals? No, it's not a Zoom call. For us, we kind of leave Zoom out of what it is that we're doing. We try to keep it very efficient for both them and for us. Sometimes they're on the go, sometimes you know. And so to put that together, we're not finding a whole lot of value in it for both the consumer and the agent. How long does that call typically last? Well, it can vary. So depending on the flexibility of the agent, it can go up to 45 minutes. But on average, I say about 20 to 25 minutes. And then you have a director of agent success who apparently handles a fair amount of those calls. Yeah. So Marcus is on my team. You know, his job specifically is to really go out and meet individually with agents to spread the good word of what we're doing in our value propositions. Almost like an agent concierge. He's not there too. He's not a loan officer. He's not there to act in the capacity of a loan officer. But we have such a wide array of offerings depending on an agent's skill set. Okay. And depending on what they specialize in, I'll give you the best example. If an agent is solely a listing agent, we have value propositions for them. If an agent is 50, 50, we of course have value propositions for them. And if an agent is by side, we have value propositions for them. So our marker stack is one of those that will speak with them. Go over an array of our offerings to get them excited to use our services. Have you shifted regarding to the NAR situation to be, you know, I see some people's, you know, basically talking about going after listing agents now. But do you see any change in your approach to listing versus a by side agent? Not at all. Not at all. You know, if you think about it at the end of the day, now think about how, watch ready. Let's pretend you and I were business partners and we wanted to buy a condo in Manhattan. Just use that as a random example. Now, could you imagine, Jeff, we're going to fly up to New York. And could you imagine if I said to you, okay, we have seven apartments we want to see. What I'm going to do is this. I'm going to call every single listing agent on all seven apartments to try and figure out when we can go see each apartment individually independently from one another. Or Jeff, we can call a by side agent, interview the one that we like, sign in agreement with him, and he can show us all seven. Which one are you going to choose? So what we're going to choose there is how strong is that buyer agent presentation and what value proposition can he offer you and I in our investment in buying in New York? Okay, I want the agent that's dominant. I want the agent that can tell me about the negotiating techniques, their knowledge, their skill set, their home search process, which is different. How they have properties that are perhaps off market. So that's who I want to identify with. Which is what we talk about in our great lunch. Yeah, I like that a lot. So what's your quick take then and we'll wrap up on, you know, in terms of who's got all the business. You know, listing agents versus buyers agents. Well, listing agents, I mean, listing agents have always been dominant. I mean, if you think about it, but the truth of the matter is that, you know, the reason why you hear challenges. Now, let's think a little unorthodox here. It's always been said you got a list to last. Okay, fine. And it's always been said that listings are better than buyers. Okay, fine. But the reason it's been said that way is because buyers had no loyalty to you. A seller had to sign up with you. But if that's the new industry standard that they have to sign up with you via broker agreement. And you have a great process for a buyer. Is it easier to find a buyer over a seller without a doubt? You see, so now the playing field has leveled itself. And so what I'm saying is in defense to an agent. If an agent was asked from a broker owner to use a buyer broker agreement a year ago, I can empathize and understand why they wouldn't do it. The reason why they wouldn't do it is because in the back of their mind, they know Susie Q down the street may not ask for one. So they're afraid that they may go to Susie Q that doesn't ask for a buyer broker agreement. However, if effective August 15th or whenever it is, Susie Q down the street also has to ask for a buyer broker agreement. Now it's a hiring process. And the agent that is confident and can convey themselves accordingly, they're going to succeed in a high level. So it's one of the best changes within that change that could take place. That's interesting. That's a good, good angle. I like the reframe on that. Very cool. All right. Well, once again, this has been a clinic on how to think differently as a mortgage professional, how to increase your value proposition with the real estate agents and get out there and capture more market share. So thank you for that. I of course want to highlight for a moment something that I think is a rare opportunity for those who have liked what they've heard from Matt today and want more. Like, you know, how do I, right, become better? How do I become number one? Let's say that. And you have a consulting company, F13, please tell us a little bit more about it. And we'll share the link in the show notes too. Sure. So F13 stands for floor 13. I was born on the number 13, which of course 13 is an unorthodox number to begin with. I mean, Jeff, they don't make floors for people like me. If you go to any hotel, if you go to any room, it's just amazing. So I have a little chip on my shoulder about 13 because actually constructurally the 14th floor is the 13th floor, but where it's neither here nor there. So F13 is a consulting company. F13 has a completely unorthodox approach and how to get business. But F13 is also designed for those that are looking to be number one. I don't say that ecotistically or arrogantly at all. The truth of the matter is that there's a finite group in any industry that truly wants to be number one within their respective counties state or in the nation. And so F13 is a consulting company to several elite individuals in our industry that are striving to be number one in the nation, which is a big goal. So we consult with these members to a high degree. We share the entire blueprint plan as to what I built out over the past 14 years. So they are out doing the same activities as I'm doing. It's not a coaching company. Okay, if you need coaching, that's not what we do. Coaching would be a little bit more rudimentary in a sense of just that type of accountability and so on. Let's put it this way. My company is taking this all-star quarterback, moving the pinky on the ball a little bit differently to get that one extra or two extra touchdowns to get to number one. That's what F13 is all about. So for someone who is considering and really, really wanting to be at that number one status in their respective area, it's something to consider. Now it is very limited in its membership offerings. We do have two memberships available and then we're closed off for the fiscal year. So it's really exciting. I'm doing it also to really help me too. So it's a wonderful thing and the group of elites that are in it have really gone from, we'll say, elite to extra ordinary. We break up that word, extra ordinary because we're looking to be extra ordinary. So if the information is think13.com, that's the landing page there. It's a little bit of information. You'll read on it. I think you already did read on it. I think you had a question for me about one of the terms that I use. I do. Yeah, let's kind of close out on that. It's a good thing and I just want to reiterate that. It may not be right for everybody. There is a qualification process. But I love the example you gave of tweaking the pinky on the ball because when I think about with that and whenever I talk with you, what I hear is distinctions. And it's just like that plane who's going from LA to New York. Well, if that plane is off just a pinky on its course trajectory, it's not going to land in New York. And so I think what you bring to the table is a lot of those distinctions that can really adjust your trajectory. So with that said, you have a quote on the page at think13.com. The world needs more impostor syndrome, not coaches or gurus. What the hell does that mean? So impostor syndrome is typically used as a negative term and impostor syndrome. It's someone who doesn't feel necessarily worthy of or feel fraudulent. So I suffer from impostor syndrome to a very high degree and I have virtually my whole life until I really recognize it was passed by 10 years. But I chose to take impostor syndrome and turn it around as a positive. And what do I mean by that? So I've been asked five, six years ago, hey Matt, would you consult me? Would you help me in my business? Would you coach me? You know that these types of requests came over the years. But I have such a high degree of impostor syndrome that there's no way I could ever consult someone else unless I became number one myself. And so I'm sharing that and I say the world needs more impostor syndrome because the truth of the matter is is that there are too many gurus out there that really haven't done it themselves to any degree. And yet there are coach yet there are this or that and they haven't performed themselves. So they need a little bit of impostor syndrome to humble themselves a little bit. Go out and perform to a high level and then extend your services to someone. It's just my belief system in what I think about. Okay, I couldn't possibly engage under contract with let's say you Jeff or another person when I haven't done it myself. So that's where that statement comes into play. I think that's really authentic. So hey, if you think this might be for you listener, you can go to think13.com. Check out the application process and then obviously Matt's team will get back to you. Matt, once again, I've learned a ton. I feel like I'm a better person for the time we spent together. So thank you so much. Likewise, thank you for all the quotes in those books. I made a note of so I appreciate you. Oh, yeah, you bet. So listeners, you know what to do. Follow the links in the show notes. If you'd like this episode, you want to share it with somebody. Feel free to do so. Appreciate you tuning in and we'll see you on the next one. All right. Well, thanks for tuning into today's episode. Hey, you got a question for you. Are you struggling to get engagement and referrals from real estate agents and feeling like you're constantly fighting for business? And a crowded market? What if I told you there's a way to attract agents to a provide unique value that helps them grow their business and generate referrals on demand? Helping you become the dominant loan officer in your local market. Look, I was an originator for over 10 years. I understand the frustration of feeling like you're just another player and a sea of competitors. And you're struggling to stand out and get noticed by the agents that you want to attract and engage with. What if I told you this way to flip the script and position yourself as the go to lender in your market attracting agents, not chasing, not paying for leads, not cold calling, but actually generating referrals on demand. And the best part, you don't have to ever make a cold call or chase leads again. You don't have to work with we need agents if you don't want to. This is what we help originators do at the my agent classes membership. What do you get? You get exclusive access to our private community of like minded law officers where you can network, share best practices, get ongoing support to grow your business. And you get a turnkey platform that helps you build your personal brand that moves you from solicitor and vendor to partner and peer. You attract agents, you increase conversations and you increase your referrals all without chasing without begging, playing the game, paying for leads. You just by doing what you love to do, which is help other people solve problems. So how do you learn more? Go to mortgagemarketing.pro. What could call with me and I'll take you through the library of done for you agent classes that you can use to just plug and play and follow our proven system of train the trainer. You don't have to be the subject matter expert. Think of yourself like that nightly news reporters just sharing the news. You also get access to our marketing automation platform that will. Attract engage and convert agents to referral partners for you scripts, checklist, downloads automated email SMS text messages. Done for you landing pages and more. You also get our market maker content, which is the social media images to help you promote your class online. And again, every Friday at our mortgage marketing mastermind call, you get access to top L.O. speakers, coaches, connect and collaborate. What's what's working right now in today's market to help you grow your business. So you don't have to struggle and try and figure it out all on your own. Don't miss the opportunity to learn more about what's helping so many originers succeed and become the go to lender in your local market. What could call with me now mortgage marketing.pro. We'll see you on the other side.