How to Prepare for the End of the Refi Boom with Ryan Grant

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, listeners, what's up? It's Jeff Zimfer. Of course, but you knew that, didn't you? Because you're tuning into the mortgage marketing radio podcast and I am so grateful for that. So welcome back. If you're a longtime listener, I appreciate you. And if you're a first time or newer listener, hey, let me know. Reach out to me. What do you like about the podcast? Whether you want to leave a review, that would be great, wherever you're listening to this, or just reach out to me directly, podcast at mortgagemarketingradio.com. And I'd love to have a conversation with you, whoever you are, always open to hearing your feedback and topics you'd love us to cover or, hey, just reach out and say hello. You can also reach out to me on the Facebooks. We have a private community for the podcast, a private Facebook group. You can just go to Facebook and search mortgage marketing radio podcast and you'll find us in there. And we're going to be increasing our engagement over there, more content sharing lives and good stuff coming to you, our podcast listeners. So look forward to connecting with you there. All right. So let's transition. And this week, I wanted to bring back a special guest who I had on some time ago, who is always just incredibly impressed with in terms of what he's doing in the mortgage space. But also, who he is as a human being in the level to which he actually cares about serving the mortgage clients that he does. So here's the thing, Ryan Grant, right? Many of you have heard the name, know the name, one of America's top producers, multiple hundreds of millions in production per year. I've last I looked, it was well over $100 million. The important thing I wanted to talk about with Ryan today is it came to my attention that recently Ryan had landed Facebook as a corporate account, right? As a corporate affinity partner. Now Ryan had already had kind of an corporate affinity division with his team over in Orange County there. And but wound up doing a loan for a client who happened to be working at Facebook. And you're going to hear Ryan's story about how he landed that client, about how he was able to convert that transaction, if you will, that that sale, that process to a discussion about his platform called the Art of Home Ownership, which led to Ryan becoming one of the preferred lenders for Facebook. And you'll hear all the great things he's been able to do with Facebook since that began and the other things that are happening. And the other thing I wanted to bring to your attention was the opportunity for you to learn more about Ryan's platform called the Art of Home Ownership. We have decided to partner up on a collaboration and let me just make it clear, like the Art of Home Ownership, you're going to learn from Ryan what it is. Most importantly, I want to invite you to learn more. Is this isn't going to be right for everybody, right? And so there, if you wanted to learn more, there's links in the show notes or you can go to the website, go homeownership.com. That's a website just for my listeners here at the podcast and should you decide to move forward with it. Well, you're going to save some money on his setup fee, which is a pretty impressive platform. But again, really just what I want you to do is get educated on the Art of Home Ownership, the story behind it, decide after you hear this session, if you wanted to learn more and investigate it further, well, you're welcome to do that. And you go to that website. You'll have a conversation with Ryan's team. You guys will vet each other and see if it's the right fit for you or not. What I'm just trying to do to pass on to you is if it is a fit for you, then we're going to save you some money off of that sign up fee. So you can learn more about that by listening to this episode. And then once again, the website is go homeownership.com. And without further ado, let's get into this week's show, Ryan Grant. Welcome to the show. Hey, Jeff. Thanks for having me, man. Thanks for taking time from your busy schedule and what looks to be a little bit of mixing in a little bit of downtime for over the summer here as well, up there in Tau. Yeah. I wish there was a downtime. No downtime. I'm just working remotely from Tauho as opposed to working remotely from Orange County. Yeah. But you know, you can take that break and turn around and get that beautiful view. Yeah. Big deep breath. And then get back at it. Right. Right. Awesome. We'll appreciate you making time. So listen, as you know, I invited you here or asked you to be here because I had heard this story about how you landed Facebook and became the preferred lender for Facebook. So that's the main thrust of the conversation that I want to have with you. So why don't we start there? How did that thing even come to play? How did you, you know, have a conversation with a, it was a client in Facebook you did alone for, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's all of our corporate affinity partnerships start, you know, we typically don't just go directly to an HR because there's not a lot of success there. So, you know, we have a platform called the Art of Home Ownership, which we're a part of and essentially every single client gets, you know, seven different unique services for 30 plus years. And you know, so we all, we do, we do a post closing call and for anybody listening or watching this, I'm happy to give away our post closing call script. So if you're, you know, listeners will email you or contact you, however, we can give them that post closing call script. Okay. I highly recommend doing this post closing calls every single time. So, you know, I spend about 20 to 30 minutes with each client after the transaction closes and I explain what our relationship is going to be like to them for the next 30 years of their life. Right? And it's interesting because clients always say, well, why don't, why don't you have another conversation? That we were done. Yeah. And, you know, our team is, is scripted and instructed to say, you know, this is really so Ryan can go over all the next steps, what you can expect moving forward, making sure you understand everything's going to happen from here on out. So clients actually really appreciate it. And so, you know, we talk about first payment information and, you know, when they're going to move in so we can plan the closing gift and we talk about, you know, future real stakeholders and we ask about how we did and, you know, we get feedback, we ask for testimonials, we ask referrals, we do all that stuff. And then I say, you know, Jeff, what's really important is that if you ever had a mortgage before, you've probably never heard from your mortgage resonator, correct? And they go, yeah, we've never heard from them. And I say, well, it's unfortunate because, you know, right now you're just on a home. And if we never talk to you again, you'll probably just own a home, but we're really more interested in helping you become a very successful homeowner. And in order to do that, it's, we have a process that we take people through and you're now an art of home ownership member. I want to explain to you what that means and what you're going to get from us moving forward. So, first of all, this isn't a cost to anything, we're not selling you anything anymore here. There's no way for us to make any more money. We just, where most companies will spend all their marketing, trying to find new clients so they don't know, we take those same marketing dollars and we reinvest it into our client success. And we know if we make you more successful as a homeowner through the art of home ownership, that you'll always work with us, you'll refer us friends, family, co-workers, will retain your business forever. And the most importantly is that we'll actually make a difference in your life, we'll actually help you grow your wealth, save money, avoid bad decisions and plan for future real estate goals. And so, they go, wow, that sounds incredible, what does it you guys do? I say, so, you know, there's seven different unique services, I list those off. And in this particular case, I said, you know, and one of the things we like to do as well for this client who was buying a second home, she was, you lived up in the Bay Area buying a second home in Huntington Beach. I said, we always like to offer the art of home ownership platform to all of your co-workers as well. So, we would offer it to your employer and they would offer it as an employee benefit to all of your co-workers and it doesn't cost your employer anything and it doesn't cost your co-workers anything. And even better, no one's selling anything, right? We just, we know that your employee or your co-workers that you work with would actually become more successful and they're real estate of financial livelihood if they have the same services that you now have. And so, this client goes, you know, I've bought and sold plenty of homes and literally not not only are you guys a service grade, but no one's ever told me they would do anything for me after the fact, right? Realters have never told me they're going to do anything for me, lenders and other, they just kind of like good luck, right? I hope you figure out your life. Yep. And I said, you know, and that's, unfortunately, common in an industry and I don't know why that happens, right? I don't know why we make the assumption that, you know, if Jeff, you're my client, I'm going to sell you a massive asset, which is really a liability if it's not a primary, if it's not an investment property. And then I actually give you a full liability, which is your mortgage. And my assumption is that you have all the answers moving forward, right? That you're just magically going to know what to do in every aspect of real estate or finance. When I know that 99% likely, no one's ever taught you about real estate or finance. And so she goes, yeah, I just happen to know the right person to connect you with because all we always ask, hey, who do you know at HR or a manager or someone we can talk to? And again, we're not selling anything, so you don't have to worry about, you know, we're not worried about that. Who can you connect with? She goes, you know, I happen to know the right person. So a week later, I had a blue jeans meeting schedule. That's their version of the Zoom, Facebook use that internally. And I was nervous. And I don't remember the last time I've been nervous before going into like a sales call, right? I feel like I have a pretty good mastery of my knowledge of why we're valuable and why somebody's worked with us. But this is a 40,000 employee company and, you know, it's a very well-known company. And so I'm like, okay, here we go. And so we get on the webinar. First thing he says is, you know, Ryan, now I got your information from our co-worker. She mentioned you guys do mortgages. We already have a first republic bank that helps us with all of our mortgages. Not sure how that would work with you guys, but what makes you different. And I promise you, if I didn't have the art of home ownership, I would have been hosed, right? Because I can't say, oh, we have better rates in them. Because, first of all, I don't know if we do or not. They're a private mortgage bank, so my assumption is that they're probably going to be a little more competitive on some of their things at times. I can't really lean on service because, hey, I don't know their service. And the service is a subjective thing anyways, so it's hard to create a sale based on that. And so I just said, you know, I was his name. I think John, yeah, John was the name. And I said, I said, John, what your employees don't need is mortgages, right? They're not interested in mortgages. What they need is advice and guidance and help. And what we do is we help your employees with seven different areas of their life without them ever even getting mortgages, right? They never have to buy a seller finance at home. I know we're happy to invest in Facebook's employees because we know that inevitably some of them will need to buy a seller finance at home. We'll be able to educate them as to when or if they should, if it makes sense for them. And then there's going to be a lot of needs that they have that are not necessarily mortgage related that we can help them with. And so I went through all the things and within 30 minutes he goes, wow, this is incredible. He goes, so we don't have to pay for this and the employees are not paid for this. I know this is our investment. This is our forward marketing dollars. He says, we'd love to have you. We'd love to partner with you guys. And so, you know, within 30 days, we were up on their campus, so we did a kind of kickoff event in January. We flew our team up there. They have what's called a pop-up shop, so they'll let their vendors come on and you get this little kind of like store that you set up in the store and all their employees who their campus is enormous, right? So, all their employees are walking back from lunch and all these different places. And you know, you put signs up to kind of direct people to your place. And we had people coming through all day long, right? And we had T-shirts were handing out and people would just come by and be like, what do you guys do? And I was, what was that was that the art of home ownership was the, it was the Ryan Grant team in partnership with the art of home ownership. Got it. So, they saw art of home. We have like banners that we've made that says Ryan Grant team in the art of home ownership. And so, people would walk up and be like, oh, what do you guys do? Right? Because they're used to having vendors on campus there. Right. And I said, do you own a home or do you rent? And whatever they say, I would say, well, this is how we help. And then inevitably they go, what's the catch? Like, how do I get all these things for free? And I say, well, the difference is most more companies like Quick and For example, will spend $400 million on Super Bowl commercials, hoping that you go into debt in the, you know, in eight minutes. And we think that we can spend, you know, our version of our marketing dollars, which is not $400 million, on helping you become more successful. And we, not only should we earn your business that way, we could actually impact your life in a positive way. And they're like, wow, it seems incredible. So, they find out, they get a shirt and we essentially adopt clients that way, right? And so, I think we adopted 187 Facebook employees in the first four hours that we were there. And they just started, they had kind of a change in HR. So, we had a meeting with them three weeks ago. And I had to kind of repitch it, right, because it was a new, like a new HR team. Right. And the lady says, this is incredible, she goes, I'm going to be moving soon, like, I personally need to use this. She goes, I don't know why this isn't more of a bigger part of Facebook's culture. And I was like, couldn't have said it better myself, I was like, I couldn't sell this thing better myself, right? Right. Now we're doing monthly lunch and learns with them virtually, right? So, every, every second Wednesday of every month, we do, you know, they promote it internally. And all Facebook employees come on to our webinars. They post all of our stuff internally. They promote people to sign up for our phone ownership. And so, you know, now we can take that to any company, right? So, we're in talks with a few others, like in and out or blizzard. And we're trying to, you know, show them the same type of corporate partnership. It always helps to have like a flagship, you know, employer or, you know, corporation that helps to kind of show some social proof. And now all of the telephone ownership partners, right? So, all loan officers and realtors who are telephone ownership partners across the country, they now have the same comparable, right? They can say, hey, this is, you know, we partnered with Facebook. Now, their personal team may not have, but artificial ownership is a whole deal, right? So, they can use it to go partner with corporations and companies in their local markets, right? And it's been a huge win for a lot of our telephone ownership partners. Wow. That's pretty amazing. I want to come back to the, obviously, the discussion of our telephone ownership. But perhaps I should have asked early on, that initial client at Facebook who you did that loan for, that was buying the property in Huntington Beach, how did that come to you originally? It was a Yelp lead. Really? Yeah. So, we get quite a bit of business from Yelp. We're one of the highest rated Yelp lenders. And so, you know, that culture up there is very much calculated, and so when Yelp found us, raised out, you know, did the transaction, and she was a really incredibly nice lady. You know, she was one of the higher ups in the company, and so it's not going to work every time, right? If we would have worked with probably 99% of the other Facebook employees, we may not have gotten that introduction, but that's the game, right? You never get for what you don't ask for, and so every single client, no matter what, unless it's way outside of our purview, like if it's a company that's, you know, in Texas or, you know, we're licensed there, but if let's say it's a company in Delaware, we're not licensed there, then, you know, we wouldn't do that. But if we're licensed in the state, which we're licensed, I think, in 17 of them, we always ask every time it's a, and it's me asking, right, because I do the post-gosing calls with every client. Hmm, interesting. You mentioned early on about HR, like I know some people going after corporations has been around for a while, and you mentioned like, if I remember correctly, something about HR, that's usually not a successful route to pursue. Well, going direct to HR is hard, right, because they get pitched everything all day long, right? There's a million people trying to get in with large companies, HR, where, you know, they're trying to say why they should be a benefit provider or why they should be in with them. So they typically have their guard up pretty heavily, and so if they're not, you know, but if an employee who works at a company says, hey, you know, I'd love for you to meet this person and chat with them, they do something really unique, then it makes the opening a lot easier. Right. That's just, but that's just half the battle, right, because imagine you're an employee of a 3,000 person company, you're, I'm sorry, you're, you're an owner or an HR manager with 3,000 person company, and I come to you and I say, hey, you know, we'd love to be here for a lender. We helped one of your employees, blah, blah, even if I get in, right, I get past it, the gatekeeper. You're going to say, okay, well, why you? And I would say, well, we'll, you know, give you a little bit of discount rate, we'll give you some credits, maybe free appraisal, and we have really great service. It's like, are you really going to stick your neck out and say that we're preferred for your company of 3,000 people when you don't really, like, you don't know if we have really good rates or not, and you don't know if our credits are legit or not, or if we're just pushing the interest rate up to give that credit, like, you don't know much about us, and everyone says they have good service, right, they mean you could do some due diligence and maybe they have good reviews, but at the end of the day, you typically don't see larger companies take the risk of edifying a smaller, local mortgage provider without an offering, and that's the challenge that lenders and realtors have nothing to offer other than loans and real estate transactions. So in the event that, you know, 99 percent of the 3,000 employees don't want to loan a real estate transaction at that time, there's not much we can offer you, right, and so the art of home ownership allows us to offer a suite of services that will fundamentally impact the success of financial livelihood of the employee, and there's a lot of studies that have been done. We, our whole presentation is built around the studies that have been done by multiple business journals that, if the employer takes more of an interest in helping someone with their real estate and their financial success, it creates a much more employee lock-in, it reduces turnover, it increases employee efficiency, because they're less stressed about their financial capacity, so when we show that to the employer, along with all the things that we have to solve those problems, it typically becomes a no-brainer, right, because normally they have to pay for something like that or share in cost, but if we're, if we're running that cost because of our affiliations art of home ownership, then I don't know what employer would not want to offer their employees a platform to be more successful in every aspect of real estate or finance. And was Facebook the first corporate client you had on board, or were there some prior to that? No, we had some smaller ones, some kind of local ones here in Orange County that, you know, 100 employees, 300 employees. I think that what Facebook did is it gave us the belief, it lent us the, not only the belief, but the credibility that, hey, not only can we do this, but we absolutely should, right, seeing how they're embracing it and seeing how they're promoting it really helps us, you know, and we hate the term sales, right, but, you know, it gave advice for guys. I couldn't even really believe it myself that we should be a perlinder for somebody and we would add that much value until I saw what we did, right, and so now, you know, I can say it, yeah, I can say it with confidence, I can say it with a full of belief, I have social proof, I have a, you know, a large enough company where everybody knows the company and what they're in, so it just, it gave us that extra credibility and we had a client of it, it was Google, right, and he just emailed me back two days ago, he's like, hey, whatever you have on that, can you send it to me, I'll push it over to my HR, so I don't know if anything will come of it, but, and we send them over our video that we have, that we created, we send them over our presentation deck that we do, so who knows, maybe Google will be next, but it'll be a long shot. You're on a roll, baby. Yeah, we'll see. Well, you mentioned something in terms of how the, your client at Facebook responded and then, of course, the HR director who replaced the previous, both responded with like kind of a wow factor, you know, they were like blown away by it, and I'm curious, because I know you lead with education and I know you have for quite a while, your big believer in the responsibility you have for educating clients and taking on this debt and how to manage it. What I'm curious about is, you and I both know this, you know, we were talking before about loan officers and some people listening have heard of our own ownership, others haven't, we'll put some links and, you know, tell you about a special offer at the end here for you to learn more. But do you think, given the educational journey to go on as a client, let's somebody who's acquiring a loan buying a house or a refi, do you think, given that version of the home loan process versus the more transactional one, do you think, by and large, 90 plus, 95% of the people would always pick the, hey, give me the more educational route? Yeah, so the short answer is yes, the long answer is, the art of home ownership is, is definitely educational, it's less about the upfront education around becoming a homeowner or buying a home, like we do that almost separately, right? So we used, you know, mortgage codes, we used MBS Highway, we, you know, we do hour-long complications where we used to sit in the composing with them, now they're Zoom meetings. And all of that is just a part of our normal process because we believe that the client doesn't have the information they need and they really should, right, they not only need to know what they can do, but more importantly, what they should do. So we've always had that. The challenge is what happens after that, because the art of home ownership is really geared more around helping someone after the fact, because I tell every client, like buying a home is not that hard. I like, there's 495,000 licensed and MLS loan officers, non-bank, right? I think in total, there's close to 950,000 with credit unions and banks, any one of them can give you a mortgage. Right? Some can do it better than others, right? Some have better mathematical skills than others, right? Some, you know, are more detail oriented, but at the end of the day, if you have credit increment assets, anyone can give you a mortgage, right? And a lot of people can even give you really good advice on mortgars, not most, but there is really good mortgage professionals out there that understand holistic personal finance and will help you structure your mortgage appropriately, and we'll do that. But then the really challenging part of the next 30 years, right, it's figuring out when do I buy another home? When do I sell this home? When do I leverage this home? When do I pay it down? What should I be allocating my additional income on? Where should I be? How should I use real estate for retirement? There's so many things that need to happen for someone to go from just owning a home to becoming a successful homeowner that they don't have access to, right? That nobody's helping them with, and they have to search that out on their own, and most people don't have time or energy to do that. So art of home ownership is really more based around the long-term value to the client. And another thing I love telling clients is, look, if you think that managing expenses leads to wealth, it doesn't. I'm nobody's ever become wealthy by saving an eighth or quarter point in their mortgage. People become wealthy by having advice and guidance and getting consistent planning, proactive information that helps you actually move the needle in your financial and real estate world. And that's what the art of home ownership provides, that's what we subscribe to. So our clients don't come to us for debt, they come to us for growth, and that's most more companies haven't figured that out, right? Most law officers haven't figured that out, most realtors haven't figured that out. Yeah, your mortgage process, your mortgage experience is completely, I'd say, the opposite of what people are expecting if they don't know you previously, right? Of course, normally they're expecting, let's go zero to six, take, you know, tell me to rate today, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you totally turn that on its head. Yeah, so people treat getting a mortgage like getting a credit card, right? Go online, find a lowest rate, you know, who can give me quickly, okay, great, I have my new credit card, now I can manage debt and I can figure it out, but then, you know, credit card company's not helping you, they're actually doing the opposite, right? And most more companies are the same, like we just, as an industry, you know, my goal is creating the art of home ownership, but originally was just selfish, right? I just, I needed a way to differentiate myself from my competitors, and I was, I was not happy with what I was doing, I was not happy with being known for selling more debt than most other law officers in the country, right? So when I, when I was able to now reposition that and say, look, I can really help our clients do some amazing things, and we create art of home ownership, and then I realize, you know what? Every loan officer needs to have this, and we're going to shine a phenomenal light on the mortgage professionals who decide to take this route in their, in their practice, because I think it's, it's important, and it's usually necessary. Yeah, for sure, you, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours, Dave Marzenke, shout out to you, Dave, if you're listening, yeah, yeah. You had asked him a question, you know, we're in the middle of this RIFI boom, which is chaotic in many ways, and many people aren't thinking, you know, where's the puck going, right? To use that old reference, but you asked Dave a question, which he relayed to me, he said, you asked him, where's your blind spot? Right? I don't know if you remember their conversation, and then it was like a set, do you want to just, for the people listening, right? What do they need to think about, you know, like when this thing ends? A dark winner. Seriously. I mean, if we thought, if we thought the end of 2018 was scary, right, what happens when rates go from 275 to 4 and a quarter, I mean, everyone in their, in their planet has refinanced or, you know, gone to low rate, if anyone's taken any cash out, they're probably doing it on a HELOC. You know, if someone's got a 275, they're not playing on sell that home to move to a 4 and a quarter anytime soon. And it's going to take a real long time for the psychology of the buyer to catch up to the new level of affordability, right, a 4 and a quarter, less home prices are continuing to climb like crazy. So it's like a, you know, not a full stop, but the faucets are pretty slow drip at that point. And so when I ask people, they're blind spot, it's typically around 18 to 24 months from now. Now, some people might think, well, I'm just trying to keep my head above water right now, right? I mean, literally just trying to, right, too much business coming in, I'm a bear standing in a salmon stream. I only have two arms. Right. I can't, I can't get most of the salmon. Right. And so, you know, I love asking people that question because, you know, I was on MBS Highway with Barry the other day, and I think you, you saw that and we were just talking about, hey, you can't, you can't just be a worker, be right now, right? You can't just outwork the industry. And, you know, if you are, then save every dime, right? Because when it becomes a challenge, if you don't have a differentiating factor, if you haven't been building something that will continue to give you business long-term, it's a real challenge, right? Like, you really have a job as opposed to a career. And so, all the things that we're doing with the corporate affinity partnerships and the direct consumer adoption of artificial ownership are database, who really has become dependent on us in every aspect of real estate or finance. Those things create that longevity to where when the market becomes challenging, not only can we still survive, but we can thrive, which is, you know, one of the things that we've always focused on is I always want to outpace the market no matter what the market is doing, hard to do now, right? But, in a downward market, being able to outpace it is something that, you know, that's what you really can tell who runs, who runs a successful business and who doesn't, right? Because right now, you're just scraping it all. Anybody can win right now. Right. Do you guys do just a segue for a brief moment here? Because I know you're heavy on, you know, past client database and leading with education and creating this value to attract people back to you. You do an amazing job with your referral partners so that they fight on your behalf. Are you, and you mentioned consumer direct? And of course, I'm on your website, checking it out. You do, you're, we'll put links in the show notes, but your website is like a, a, a, a, a college level class, you know, in engagement, leading with education, using direct response, lead capture type stuff, you know, with, with information, quizzes and education library. It's really like amazing. I'm sure you spend a lot of time in money building that. So kudos to you. I'm curious. Yeah. With that, are you also investing in any other consumer direct strategies, whether it's PPC, Facebook ads or anything like that? A lot of it right now is social media with art of home ownership, right? So we'll ask a question, you know, do you just own a home? Are you a successful homeowner? Take this quiz to find out. I like, you have this node, you have this node, you have this node, okay, you know, sorry, you're not a successful homeowner, but you can become one, doesn't cost anything, click here, right? Or, you know, understanding home buying in the COVID era, you know, mastering the art of being a homeowner. There's a lot of different things that we'll test and we'll run that, you know, we'll get seven to 10,000 views and we'll be able to capture, but if I'm super honest, we're just not pushing a lot of direct consumer right now because all of our referral partners in our database really need our help the most. And so the, the external stuff, you know, if I had more staff and a bigger fulfillment team and operations, then we could do that, but we didn't hire 70% more people, unfortunately, we're working on it, but that's awesome. All right, so let's do this. Let's pivot briefly and talk about, for those listening, the art of home ownership. And let's kind of, I mean, you've kind of really already alluded to and explained kind of what it is, but here's the thing, right? You and I have chatted, you've been on the podcast before. I'm a huge fan of yours, as you know, and I'm always looking for things that I think are incredibly valuable and useful for my listeners to bring to them. And it's very rare that I do. So based on what you're doing, what I've seen happen, just who you are as a human being, you know, I feel definitely strong and confident in endorsing you in this platform. That said, let's be clear that art of home ownership, integrating that platform into your mortgage practice is not for everyone. So maybe we should talk about who it's not for. Yeah, you know, the first thing we did is we limited it to, you know, really two loan officers or two mortgage professionals for every 100,000 people in an MSA or a metropolitan pharmaceutical area. We want it to be a major differentiator between just being the cheapest provider of mortgages and being the most valuable provider of mortgages. And we are very well aware that it's probably less than 1% of mortgage regulators in America that will even be attracted to this type of platform that will want to be this person, right? That want to end up becoming the most valuable person in their clients lives as a relates to real estate or finance. And so, you know, we know that it's a limited release. There's only a certain number of partnership opportunities available in each market. And the person that's going to really speak to is the more professional who wants to actually be valuable. All right. And one of the biggest pet peeves I have is you see all over social media and everybody know, why do you do this? And I love helping people. I'm like, okay, let's really break down what you're doing here. Like when you say helping people, someone who already has decided to buy or finance a home, rate it out to you by some act of miracle, whether it's referral or, you know, they find you somewhere. And then they decide to use you, whether out of thousands of other lending choices, you give them the mortgage that either they want or that you believe is best. And then you leave them on their way. I like, how much does that really help them, right? All you really did is you just kind of, you just served an order, right? It's like, it would be like if someone at Burger King said, I just love helping people. Like, all you're really doing is just giving them what they ordered. And so if you really want to take that to another level and you really want to be valuable to your clients and impact their future generation of wealth and be the consummate financial professional in every aspect of the word, then this applies to you. All right. Otherwise, if you're just the churn and burn and get them in, get them out, quote rates, and you know, we always say there's a big difference between production and performance. There's plenty of loan officers and plenty of companies that outproduce us. I would just argue that there's probably none, unless there's other art of homeowners and members that outperform us. Hmm. Interesting. Well, it's funny how outperforming and leading with education and all the things that you have articulated here really creates, I think, ultimately what people want, right? Isn't that that the sustainable business that supports you through good and bad all markets, right? Yeah. I mean, whenever you have people that are coming to you saying, hey, Jeff, I was referred to you by my friend, Joe, and Joe just said that you're really great with everything real estate and finance related. I'd love to chat with you about my situation and see what you suggest. Very few lenders get that type of referral, right? The referral is, I want to buy a house and I told you I've got rates or do you have a service or I want to re-finance and I got your information, like typically people only get people who already know what they're doing. What we want to strive for as more professionals is to adopt the consumer in advance of their decision. Yes. So I want you to come to me before you even have a clue on what you want to do about real estate or finance. I want to learn more about you and now I want to help give you a roadmap, I want to help create a plan for you, I want to give you advice or guidance at worst. I want to tell you, Jeff, you're actually in a really great position and I like I wouldn't change much, maybe just get your estate plan updated, maybe double check your disability insurance. But other than that, I think you're in an awesome spot based upon what your goals are and what you want to do. Let's follow up again this time next year and if anything's changed or evolved, we can just keep a conversation going and then we'll talk every single year. That's the type of advisor we need to be. We don't need to be selling anything, we just need to be curious and when you remove the outcome of the conversation from sale or no sale, it's incredible how valuable you can be to the client because you're just listening and intently trying to solve any problems that make this. Yeah, the other thing too that I just thought of that's that's very interesting and creative is you think about you're actually building your future business by giving people access to art of ownership, you know, through the corporate arrangement, you talk about the millennials, right? I mean, you are basically building those relationships to be the person they're going to choose because you've been most engaged with them during that whole journey till they're ready to buy. Yeah, and that's 100% it, right? If someone can do no cost for renovation financing prior to selling their home to get the most value out of that home when they sell it, if they can move from one home to the next with the relocation technology that takes out stress, energy and money, if they have monthly real estate wealth digest, if they have a home concierge, there's like a personal system for their house, like they get all these things without ever transacting, right? And so engaged is a probably an understatement, right? Like when I was just getting really moving the needle in their life and so it keeps us top of mind, it keeps us, you know, engaged at a really high level. And we will typically know when they should do that transaction before they do, right? And that's that's the key. That's pretty amazing. That's awesome. Congrats to you. Okay. So let's for those who want to learn more about art of home ownership. That's okay. No worries. That's editing school, man. Yeah. All right. So I'll be back into that. Three, two, one. All right. So for those who want to learn more about art of home ownership, as I said a moment ago, we've decided to collaborate. And for my listeners, we're putting together a two step process. Number one, the next step would be if you want to learn more about art of home ownership. I'm going to give you a website and I'm going to actually put it in the show notes as well. But it's go home ownership.com. Once again, it's go home ownership.com. And what that will do is take you to a page with a brief video and what you can do there. If you want to learn more, it's scheduled a time to speak to somebody on Ryan's team to learn more about, is this the right fit for the two of you? Because what I know for certain is, as Ryan said, they're not looking for everybody. They're looking for the one percenters or just under that who really have the mindset and approach that Ryan talks about. The advantage you guys do have that, if you do decide to take action on that, is for our listeners here on the podcast, you get $250 off the sign up fee or the set up fee because there's a lot that goes into setting this up and make it work for you. So that again is just, you know, as a thank you to being a loyal listener and Ryan, thank you for making that available to our listeners. Yeah. How about to help? Yeah, for sure. So, that's it, you know, as far as, if you like what you've heard today, if you want to get ahead of, like Ryan said, your blind spot in the next, what was it, a dark winter in the next 18 to 24 months, prepare for the change that's inevitably coming and really build a sustainable, long-term business, I strongly encourage you to check out the start of home ownership through the links we share with you, go homeownership.com. Ryan, I know you're busy, man. I appreciate you making time and all I can say is thank you. And thanks for also leading an industry who needs more people like you to kind of level up our game. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. All right. And listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode. Leave us a review and appreciate you tuning in and we will see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. 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