How to Say NO to Agents and Get Your Life Back with Jake Wade

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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey listeners, what's up Jeff Zimper, your humble host. Once again, for another episode of mortgage marketing radio, you know, it's funny when I do these intros. Sometimes I'm just, gosh, I'm thrilled to have you here. Appreciate your being here and I want you to know that I am. I'm very much thrilled that if you're tuning in, you've been tuning in for some time, I am grateful for that. And look, you could reach out to me anytime. You want to share a topic, a comment. You want to suggest a guest I should interview. You can email me anytime, podcast at mortgagemarketingradio.com. So check it out. Also don't forget as we're transitioning through the rest of 2020, right? How are you preparing for the shift away from REFI as that does begin to happen? What percentage of your businesses purchase right now? Are you investing in your realtor relationships, your referral partnerships so that you can keep those sticky solid because that is the oil well that's going to continue to feed you through the ups and downs? Should we have a small impact to the interest rates for refinances? You know that an impact can be fast and immediate and significant. So I want to help you prepare for that. I want to help you continue to build your realtor referral relationships in a fun, stress-free, non-cold calling way. How about never making a call call to a realtor again? How about never having to pay to play? How about never having to chase? How about having an educational platform that attracts agents to you? So you become the go-to lender adding more value than any other lender in your town and building loyalty, building trust, having a unique differentiator that gets agents to respond, that gives you a platform to reach out and build your personal brand with agents. It's unbelievable. How do you do that? Well, you need to follow a system. Number one, it can't be just from the hip, right? You need to follow a plan, right? You need some guidance and you need the right tools and systems to do that. Good news. We've got the plan and the system and the tools. It's called the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership. And what it is is a little library of on-demand, zoom ready to go, done for you classes that aren't on mortgage, right? Although we do have a brand-new first-time homebuyer class in there, but on topics, hot topics that agents want to learn about, social media, digital marketing, business planning, you name it, right? And we equip you to be able to facilitate and host these classes in a very stress-free way where you don't have to be the expert, right? But they are coming to you to learn this information and from that you will drive conversations, meetings, over Zoom or in-person. And thus, you will create this value-based relationship, which creates reciprocation and wants to refer to you, right, clients, because you're adding more value to them than just being a lender, which we know we need to do more than that. So you want to learn more? Go here. Mortgagemarketing.pro forward slash join. Got a brief video up there. We do weekly calls. By the way, the podcast we just released in this past episode was from Janelle Poole, right, who's one of our pro members. That gave you a snapshot into sometimes what we do on our coaching calls for our pro members as we do these hot seats. We're always talking about our members are coming to the table with ideas, we're helping people execute holding them accountable. So mortgagemarketing.pro forward slash join. All right, let's transition to my special guest this week, who happened to pluck from the stage of Todd Duncan sales mastery, Todd Duncan I've got a ton of respect for, helped me get started in the industry way, way, way back and was a mentor for me. And so Todd now this year, of course, did his sales mastery virtually, and I'm watching and I see this gentleman Jake Wade from Sonoma County, California talk about going from on demand to in demand and having those difficult conversations when you need to no longer if you're at a point in your career where you are getting burned out, spread thin, you don't want to play the on demand 24, seven, call me at 8 o'clock at night, kind of stuff. And how do you transition away from that? How do you have those conversations, what's the process you go through to make that adjustment in your business? Well, that's why I wanted to bring Jake here to the conversation today because he's done that and he's been on a rocket ship, kind of restarted over in the business after two year hiatus. So in 2017, he did 18 million, 2018, 27 million, 2019, 42 million, 2020. I think he's on track to do 60 to 70 million, 155 units and knows what he's talking about. So wanted to have this conversation with Jake and to help you if you've ever had difficulty wondered how do I have the conversation with realtors so that I don't need to be on demand 24, seven, and how do you be more selective in who you work with because there's enough other people, there's enough people out there that are willing to do business on your terms. So hopefully today's conversation helps without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Jake Wade, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for having me. Appreciate you being here. You're hot off the stage from sales mastery 2020, man, how'd that go? It was incredible, you know, I wanted to go out there and do a live, I wanted to go out there and see Todd and give him a hug and feel that good energy, you know, it was amazing. You know, every year that I go to one of these things, it's like a shot in the arm of some high trust and some good energy. And so with COVID and all that, it was definitely a trip to go out there and film for, you know, an hour, but well worth it. And you've met Todd, you know, his energy is just off the charts. Yeah. Todd, it's so funny because my story, I started in 2003 and I was reading some of your bio. You've been in the industry a long time too. Yeah, Todd, man, I used to have his sales mastery, like DVDs on the shelf, you know, and we put those into the computer nowadays, you just watch the stream, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. No, so all right. Let's jump into it. So here's why I wanted to pluck you off of the stage, so to speak and appreciate your flexibility. Because this was literally two days ago, I think, right? You were on the stage. You talked about a concept that comes up a lot when I talked to loan officers, which, you know, the title of your session with Todd was going from on demand to in demand. And but what you really talked about was the whole concept of like when we all first started this business, we want to be available 24 seven, right? You know, where I'm going. Yeah. I outworked anybody. Call me week as nights, whatever, and you played that game for a while, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, one of my realtors came up with the tag line. She's like, well, you just started, Mr. Make it happen, aren't you? And so kind of stuck. And I, that was good when I was starting and, you know, everyone called me. I got a hard one. I can't do or I need you. But I learned after about a year and a half, like that, that maybe even a bad strategic move there because it set the premise of exactly that. Mr. Make it happen. Call them 24 hours. Call them one in the morning. They'll get up and do a pre approval for you, which I did. I mean, if I told you some of the stories of stuff I did to gain new market share, it would blow your mind. But yeah, I think every L.O. goes through that. I don't care how successful you are now. There was one point you were fighting for scraps, you know? Yeah. So at some point, yeah, you have to do that to kind of prove yourself, I guess. Now that you're, by the way, how many years have you been in the business? This would be 16. 16. And you switched over to pinnacle when a few years ago? So I actually worked until 2013, full-time in the industry, took a break for three years. I mean, I still did a couple deals, refer them out, blah, blah. So I team fresh into pinnacle in a new town, zero relationships, zero realtor clients. So I kind of started over, if you will, in January 2017. Wow. Okay. So take us fast forward. 2019, what was units and volume, and what do you kind of track in this year? 2019, I did, so I'll just give you that, 2017, I did 14 million, 2018, I did 27 million, 2019, I did 42 million. And this year, I'm projecting somewhere between 64 and 70 million, and that's my personal production. Right. And I know you're in California, so let's put this in the context for our folks in Indiana. Roughly, how many units that is, roughly, I mean, you just ballpark? I'd say probably about 155, 160. Got it. All right. So you're rocking it. Yeah. Okay. So you started basically from ground zero in 2017. That's a fast clip. Number one source of business is, past clients, so you're really good at database farming and all that. Okay. Okay. Okay. So past clients number one, then number two, realtor, realtor, okay. I want to roll back to clock a little bit to how you first started, then we'll bring it up to modern day. But when you first started, you're just blowing and going, you're out there, Mr. Make It Happen. This is 2017. How did you get attention from realtor's? How did you get noticed and get conversations? I'm pretty fearless, so I mean, I would just walk into a room, and I would look for things that I liked, right? Oh, I liked your sunglasses. Oh, those are nice pair of shoes. I have a green pair or whatever. You know what I mean? So I would look for similarities, but honestly, I'm pretty fearless. I mean, I would go to networking events and just introduce myself to as many people as I could, you know, see someone with a nice car in the parking lot, start a conversation. I mean, you name it. I was doing it. You know, you got to remember at this time, I came off a three-year hiatus working part-time as a, working full-time as a personal trainer, just for something to do. But my 2016 touch turn set 32 grand, right? So fast forward January 17, or excuse me, January 17, I have a new baby on the way, right? So all these things, I was hungry. I was hungry again, just like I was when I was 22 years old. Right. All right. So you had a big compelling why, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Big reason to get your motivated. So you got after. So you're just, it was the hustle factor. You're out there just doing everything you can. Like we said, the 25th. I was in, yeah. I was in B&I. I was in, you know, leads for, I was in multiple networking groups, multiple, I was just out there. I was, you know. And did that stuff work? Somebody did and somebody didn't. And what I learned is the stuff that worked for me, I did more of the stuff that didn't, I just kind of let go. But in the beginning, right, you've got to try a lot of different, especially if you're coming out of this. You do all. Yeah. For zero experience, you're, the name of the game is awareness. Who the hell is Jake Wade? I don't know. Yep. Yep. And then you got to prove yourself. Somebody's got to take a flyer on you and be like, all right, I love your hustle, man. I'm going to flip you a bone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I worked a lot open houses, holy folks. I worked a lot open houses because I realized early on that that was the way that to be in front of that person one on one less distractions, you know, really gets no. And I think that's what started kind of my formulation of getting into like high trust or the relationship based model is, I just hang out with these people. And I was normal. I was trying to put on a show. I was just being me. So. Yeah, being you. That says a lot there. Okay. So at some point then now we're, you know, 2017, 2018, you're building volume, you're building relationships, referrals and all that kind of stuff. Was there a point where you kind of had this awareness or recognized, you know, like, hey, you know what, man, I'm burning the midnight oil. I need to change some things. I can't be 24 seven. Yeah. So it was a, it was a two part equation. I went to, I had, I had basically figured out that now I was getting up business where I didn't have to take on the very, very hard loans. And I was realizing they, I was starting to realize it took me a while. I hit my head a few times to realize that I was spending more time on these loans just trying to be the hero and probably missing the feels that I should be focusing on and not. So I do one loan and lose out on three, right, because I'm, so that was kind of the start of it. And then yeah, the second part was just emotional toll. I mean, I'm a pretty open book. That first year, my daughter's life, I was not, I was not home much. And after about a year of that, I was like, you know what, this isn't, this isn't why I'm doing this. I'm doing this so I can be with my family, not be away from my family. So I think all that. And then realizing that I had to set some boundaries, right? Just like anything in life, like you have to set those boundaries for success. You have to set those boundaries for personal reason, you know? So I think all those in culmination, I just started to realize, like, okay, you need to have like some work life balance and figure out when you're going to work and when you're not going to work and then communicate that. And I think the last part of communicating that was like the gold moment, like, oh my gosh, I'm going to say this right now, and I'm going to tell someone no, and I might lose them and fear, you know, all those things. Yeah, and I'm glad you went there because that's exactly where I want to spend the bulk of our rest of our time talking about because a lot of loan officers, even in their established, right? You know, a lot of loan officers like the bitch and moan about realtors and complain. Right? And I get it. I get the whole conversation, but you know, probably better than a lot. That's just a choice you're making to work with those people, right? So maybe give us an example of how do you identify who you're going to cut loose? How did that conversation go? Kind of what happened from there? Yeah. So there were a couple that right off the bat. And just I was like, I kind of, I, well, I remember I wrote down a list, right? And I like one side of the column, this is who I don't like working with. Well, it was more a list. And then I just started kind of making notes next to their name. And like, right, immediately, there were like two or three that wrote, like, this has got to be a breakup. Like, this has to be a breakup. There's never anything going to cut it this. We just don't work. And that's okay. They probably work better with people than me. And I work better with, you know, same thing. So there are probably three or four. Then a meet of them, you know, good chunk of them was, Hey, I know, like, you kind of got used to me, like, kind of being like, Hey, call me up Saturday. I'll be there on Sunday for an open house or, Hey, you know, text me eight o'clock. And then I'll drop what I'm doing and go do a pre-approval. I just need to have some conversation. Like, I need to tell you that like, Hey, my life's changing a little bit. And I want to spend time with my family. And the thing is, is it was the truth. If there wasn't that, I want to go golfing or I want to go party or I want to work. It was really, I want to spend time with my family. So I think because that was the truthful, intentional reason, people know when you're bullshitting and when you're not. And then, you know, once I said that, the next step was these people started to see spend, see me spending time with their family. And then the, like, amazing thing happened. How'd you do that? How'd you do that? And so my readers started wanting that same life balance. And so it was this weird kind of alignment that happened. And yes, I still did work open houses. And yes, I still worked on the weekends. And yes, I still do to this day. But that was, that was, now it's 20% of my, of my schedule, not 90% of my schedule. Right, right. You're not sacrificing family anymore because of, yeah. And I still work a lot, but I know, I, I know how to set those boundaries now. Do you are, do you have, you know, some people have this policy like after a certain hour? I don't answer my phone. I don't really have that, but I do let people know when I'm not going to be available. Like I have a text message ready to copy and paste to my realtor segment of my phone book. And, you know, I sent it out this morning. I said, hey, guys, just select, you know, I'm only going to be in the office until Tuesday. My daughter and I are going to go get some ice cream and then go to the park. If you need anything, please send me an email, one of my team members, again, the importance of delegation now in team, one of my team members or I will get to it either over the weekend or Monday. If it's an emergency, texting and people do that. Sometimes they cross the boundary and then they text me for like a pre-approval. That's not getting somebody to tell Monday. And I just have to remind them, like, hey, you know what, I come in at 6 a.m. So like Monday is okay if we do this. Oh, yeah, sure, no problem. So it's really about communication. And if you work with the right people, that is not hard to do. You should be able to talk to, in my opinion, you should be able to talk to your realtor's candidly, openly, honestly and with love. And do you think L.O. struggle with that? Is that an issue you think for people? Yeah, why? I think, I think a lot of people, I think some L.O. think you have to put on a show or you have to say the right thing. I'm authentic and some people don't like it and some people do. But I'll tell you, I make them good living off the people that do that. I'm okay with that. I guess it's that old saying there's enough people out there who will do business on your terms, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And that doesn't mean everyone's smile, you know, I go, you know what? No problem. I'll jump on and drop that for him. I'm doing anything right now. But yeah, I think, I think communication, honest communication is tough unless you have built the foundation of a trusting relationship and a true relationship. Yeah. If it's a referral partner, someone that just calls you to get a quick pre-approval, that's not a partner. That's someone calling to get a quick pre-approval because they know you'll do it to drop the hat. Well, what's the difference? How do you know the difference between a true partner? And because that sounds like a daily thing, realtor, hey, I need a pre-approval. The realtor that just sends you a referral and you say, hey, I'm spending time with my family. Can I get it to you tomorrow morning? I then may call Lender B and then never talk to you again. That's someone who's not your partner. Someone who's partner who goes, hey, can I get that pre-approval? Is it okay to like tomorrow morning? Yeah, sure. Just before 8 a.m. because the offers are due by me. Now, that's a partner. Yeah. So a funny story from my past and I was an originator is, I had this guy, you know, he was courting him, wanted to get his business really, and I worked it, worked it like crazy. And I did. And then about six months into the relationship, he starts playing the game where leaving me a voicemail, hey, if you don't call me back within 30 minutes, I'm calling on that whole game. Yeah. And you're just like, hey, man, we got to talk. So, all right, this is going to be very honest. So, and I don't say this out of ego, but I do it to kind of prove point, I have had that happen to me. And basically, my response was great. Do you want the name of three great ones that I know? That's awesome. That's even better. Yeah. I think the thing, channel, L.O. struggle with, especially early on, but even ongoing is just, even when I started, you know what I mean, confidence. I didn't, I was, I was, it's the word apprehensive about pursuing successful realtors because I thought they had their act altogether and all this kind of, then you get to, you realize, oh, my God, these people are screwed up. You know? Yeah. So, so one of my first mentors, last coaches, Roger Savvy, I don't know if you've ever heard the name, but wonderful trainer, wonderful guy. We talked about when the first thing we talked about is perceived indifference, right? So, perceived indifference means that realtor doesn't want to hear from you. That realtor doesn't want to talk to you. You, the thing, the self talk, you tell yourself as a newer L.O., like you are perceiving the indifference between you two before you've even given, before you've even given a shot. And that was a huge one for me and it kind of goes back to, you'll never get the business if you don't ask for the business. And really, what's the worst thing that can happen? They can tell you to go fly a kite, big deal, you know? What do you think about L.O.s getting hung up on feeling like they don't have anything unique or different to add a value, you know? We're, hey, I got rates, I got loan programs. What's different about me? I think, I think you always have to strive, like, you know, Todd talks about this a lot, but like you have to be a differentiator, right? Like you have to find your own brand, you have to make yourself different. You know, throw a rock and you hit a loan officer these days, right? But to really differentiate yourself, yeah, so I think that comes with confidence. I think that comes with discovery, right? So you have to look within and say, who do I want to be? Who do I want to be in six months? Who do I want to be in six years? Who do I want to be in 60 years, you know? So I think thinking about those things and then becoming extremely intentional about what you're going to do revolving your brand. Are you going to do social media? How is that going to look? You know, when you show up to a meeting, what sucks are you going to wear? What shoes are, you know, like what is your brand and what are you going to get really intentional about? So I think that kind of goes hand in hand with that. I, I'm, I'm a huge, when I coach and when I train people, I have always saying be authentic, be authentic, be authentic, be authentic. Because again, I think if you're authentic, the right people will be in your life. If you are being you and you are being authentic in how you care about your business, how you care about your clients, how you care about the perspective relationship with this new realtor, then you will get the authentic, you'll get the right people. You know what I mean? If you're trying to be fake or put on a show, you're going to maybe win some people over, but you're always going to be putting on that show. Yeah. So I love what you're saying there, be authentic and all that stuff. And it is a process sometimes for finding what that is for you, your voice and all that. Seems like you're pretty confident with who you are. So you're in, you're in, where are you again in Northern California? No, no county. No, no county. So it's pretty laid back up there, right? I mean, is anybody, you've learned sport codes or what? I was, yeah, I mean, I were sport codes for it. Okay, it's definitely not like when I worked in the financial district where I wore a full suit, you know, every single day. It definitely isn't. I mean, I have shorts and a T-shirt on right now on footplops. I can go see any one of my realtor partners and they went bad and I, it's summertime in Sonoma County. You know what I mean? I think, I think when you're a younger or not, I mean, when you're a newer L.O., you definitely have to show up more polished. You definitely, you know, I mean, that's part of it. First impressions. But yes, first impressions are huge, but I think, you know, when I coach younger L.O., I think that show up polished, show up knowing your stuff, show up in a nice, you know, outfit or whatever. So I think that's part of it, but that doesn't mean you, you, you, you, you fake your intentions or you fake her, you are anything like that. You're just showing up dressed to impress. Yeah, for sure. And also what I can tell about you, I think, is that if I'm correct, that you're not showing up and it's not about what you can get, right? It's about what you can give. I, I regularly use the word surf, I always, you know, how can I serve you, how can I help you? I go into every single partnership, asking questions about how I can help their business, because here's the thing. If I, we are human, they are trying to get something from me, I'm trying to get something from them, but I am not taking it in self interest. I am truly wanting to invest so that they become a true partner in their business. So, you know, I do the high-trust interview, I talk to people, I regularly check in with my realtors, I work with exclusively, hey, what kind of do that help you? Oh, nothing, everything's great. I said, there's nothing you've been struggling with lately, due to the shift in the market with increased buyer demand. Well, you know, I, you know what I mean? So, I'm constantly probing that, how can I help, how can I serve, how can I help? And that doesn't stop just because you solidify a relationship, because their business change, your business change, your personality changes, what you need changes. So, you need to be, in my opinion, asking that continually, because it forces you to continually approve and stand your game with that relationship. Are you doing anything like, you know, agent masterminds or Facebook groups or anything like that with your agents? Um, I did, yeah, I have done some Facebook groups. I've got done a few small get-togethers. I haven't really done too much of that with the COVID thing, but I will tell you, I text and check in with my realtors. I mean, there's probably a week that doesn't go by that I talk to almost my whole database. And sometimes it's not even business, right? Hey, saw this on Facebook, how was your run? Because that's really, so I think what I've done a really good job at is two things. The thing connected with my realtor database and saying connected with my client database. I mean, I send out five checks every Wednesday to five people in my database. I do five handwritten cards every Wednesday to five people in my database. And I send five personalized voicemails to five people in my database every single Wednesday. And I've been doing that since 2017 religiously. Wow, and it pays off. Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. And you're also doing some other things as we wrap up here in the last few minutes. I noticed when I was looking at your website, you are part of give back homes. Yes, I am. Yeah. So I've had them on twice, man, I really love what they do. Yeah, so that's one of the charities I'm part of, but it is by far the, I don't know, the coolest, the most hip, the kind of like, I don't know, their whole, their whole, their whole branding and their whole message is just so cool to me. And it's a younger, you know, generation of getting back. And I really like that. Yeah, Cory Robinson, one of my friends and top realtors in Marin County got me involved with them. It's incredible. And what's really cool is I'm not giving money back just internationally, but I've gone over to the builds in Oakland. I've gone to the ones in San Francisco. I lived in San Francisco for a decade. I've given back to the community there. You know, I've done soup kitchen. I've done it all, but to do this in my now profession is really cool. Yeah, for sure. And of course, you know, it's focused on realtors. So, you know, talk about a networking, a charitable organization where it puts you in front of realtors. I'm just curious if you ever, well, you got a local, local friend and top realtor there. Sometimes like in the past, when I've had that month, I've tried to show lenders, hey, here's a great thing you could introduce to your realtors that they would find tremendously value. Talk about, hey, how do I value to your business, right? Give back homes is wanting something. Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. I honestly hadn't even thought of that. I've just kind of given them money, but I mean, if I can talk to my realtor database about that. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, fantastic. All right. Anything else you're doing, you know, for the rest of this year, we basically have a quarter left. We got COVID, right? We're still kind of working our way through that. Anything that you've done significantly different post COVID had to adjust your, you know, your business or your pursuit of referral relationships. Um, you know, definitely working from home a lot more face time, a lot. I've really tried to do use face time for my clients and my realtors database. I just formed a new partnership with the large real estate company that we're going to be, you know, the new inhouse lender for. So it's going to be interesting because we're going to have to start that via Zoom and all that. But what I have found is it's almost easier to an extent because I can schedule 12 calls back to back and hit all 12 of those. If I had to drive, cut that in half. Right. Right. So you are leveraging Zoom technology to stay connected and build those relationships and all that. Absolutely. That's interesting in house. That could be a whole separate conversation in house lender. It's a double edge sword, isn't it? Yeah, but I always think if you go, if you start the relationship right and then both people aren't just invested into your point of what can you give me? What can I give you? And if you really have a shared vision, which I do have with this group, I think it'll again be a different differentiator. No, that's awesome. It's funny because that hasn't been talked about much a lot. I don't see that bubbling up on the channels or all that kind of stuff, you know. And I think that to your point, the right, it's all about relationship. That's what it comes down to. And that's the only time those things really work. So good for you, man. Well, I know you're busy and you want to go have ice cream with your daughter. I appreciate you making time. I really wanted to dive into the whole difficult conversations with realtors and we definitely should have some nuggets. Hey, if anybody wants to connect with you, where's the best place to send them? J way to PCM. PCMloan.com or find me on Instagram. Jake Wade. Mr. Make it happen. Man, I want to see banners and t-shirts and all that stuff. You got it. All right, man, I appreciate you being here and listeners. You know what to do if you like this episode. Feel free to leave us a review and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before. And I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. 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