How to Use Video to Accelerate Trust and Grow Sales

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Go check it out right now. Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, Elisters, what's up? Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast. My name is Jeff Zimfer and I am your humble host. Before we get into this week's special guest, a few housekeeping announcements. If you haven't yet heard by now, I would like to know what the number one big pressing question is that you've got on your mind. It could be about marketing. It could be about social media. It could be about this business. It could be about anything, right? Here's what I am asking, offering, encouraging you to do. If you're listening on your mobile right now, you can simply minimize the podcast, player, go to your browser and type in askjfanything.com. Even better than that, you can just scroll to the podcast episode and look for the link to ask Jeff anything. Ask me anything and go there, tap on your screen and then simply do another tap and what's your big pressing question, what's your biggest challenge? What is it that you are trying to work through, break through, overcome, achieve or just get some more insights and help on this year? You can go there, askjfanything.com, link in the show notes, and leave your question. When and if I feature your question live on the air, which I've been doing almost every week for the past few episodes, first of all, you'll get your questions answered. I'll give you a shout out on the air. Secondly, no matter if I feature your question on the air or not, every question I get will be entered into a monthly drawing for which the winner will receive an amazing box of swag, cool stuff, gifts, t-shirts or t-shirt, I should say, other cool swag stuff, plus a free private one-on-one coaching call with me. Askjfanything.com or tap the link in the show notes. That's how you do that. Secondly, make sure you jump over to our private Facebook group where that is. You go to Facebook and type in Mortgage Marketing Radio. Love to see you jump in there. Lastly, if you are like many other loan officers are right now, recognizing that refives are down, and purchase business is what's invogue and what to go after, but you are like many other loan officers who are now chasing real estate agents and showing up with the same message and there's lots of noise, lots of loan officers going after agents bringing no real value. You need a system, a system derives above the noise, a system to actually get attention and get response from real estate agents because without something, quote, of interest or value or use to the real estate agent, unfortunately, you're put in a box of sameness and the same is lame. That's right. Same is lame. So, how do you break out of that box? You rise above the noise with a unique selling proposition, something unique and different to capture their attention. What is it? It's education. It's tools, resources, tips, strategies, and information that will help real estate agents grow their business. Break through and overcome the same challenges you're facing about. How do I navigate this world of social media, digital marketing? How do I get more listings and low inventory market? How do I get my buyers offer accepted? Imagine if you approached your real estate agents with solutions for that. Would you get more conversations? Would you get more meetings? Would you get referrals? The answer is yes. How do you do that? We provide for you the complete turnkey system and platform to do that. It's called my agent classes and what we do is lead with education by equipping and empowering you with every tool and resource you need to succeed in presenting this information to real estate agents, be it virtually over Zoom or in person. I don't care if you've never presented before. I don't care if you think, oh, I'm not an expert on this topic. No worry. We've handled that for you with our trainer videos, with our transcripts, with our downloads, with our speaker notes, with our images to promote on social media to help you get agents to attend your classes and follow our proven system and process for converting attendees to referral partners. Want to learn more? Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro, link in the show notes as well. Check out the brief video. We've put up there and see if that's for you. All right. So let's transition now into my guest this week is Darren Dawson, the co-founder and president of Bombom. Now many of you probably already know of Bombom. Some of you guys and gals, I'm sure are using it. I've been a Bombom user for a long time. I'm talking like 10 years, right? And what I love about this conversation that Darren and I have is you guys may have been feeling it that there is what we focus on here is, you know, they've got Bombom put out two books. One is called Rehumanize Your Business and the other is called Human-centered Communication, a business case against digital pollution. If you haven't checked those books yet, I definitely encourage you to do so. We'll link that up in the show notes also. But what Darren and I do is kind of unpack this whole issue of digital pollution. And how about yourself, especially during the pandemic and shelter in place, have you felt, have you been feeling that there's just too much digital noise, too much digital pollution, right? I think if you're like me and like others, I've talked to you, you feel that that's the case. And there's different types of digital pollution, if you will, right? But Bombom line as pollution comes down to irrelevant, unsolicited, poorly targeted and overly aggressive messaging. And sometimes more is, less is more, I should say, quality over quantity. So Darren and I kind of unpack what's the challenges with digital pollution. How do you not fall into the category of digital pollution and make sure that what you're doing is relevant and welcome by the recipient? And lots of other good talking points for you about how you can, you know, I architect and design a customer experience that is high on the human touch and incorporates the high tech touch when important and relevant. So I think you'll enjoy this episode. And more importantly, what's your one big takeaway? Once you listen to this, come on back to the Facebook group, podcast group at Mortgage Marketing Radio and love to continue the conversation from there. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Hey Darren, welcome to the show. Jeff, thanks for having me, man. It's great to be here. I have to say it's a pleasure and all right, I'm going to say it's an honor. I'm not like, you know, make you feel strange or anything, but I mean, I've just been a huge and this is going to sound like fanboy stuff, but it's true. I've been a huge fan and user of Bombom for a number of years. So I'm really excited that we get to talk to you today. So thank you. I appreciate that. There's a lot of work that went into that and I'm thankful for all the customers, including yourself that have helped us out for a very long time. It's great. Yeah, I think I might have started using Bombom. Dare I say eight, 10 years ago? Wow. That's great. You know, well, I quit my day job about 11 years ago. So yeah, let's go. You helped me pay for my first real car, maybe, or this house. So I appreciate that. Well, you guys have definitely put in the sweat equity and all that now. Of course, you're a well-known name within the industry of Morgan Real Estate and others as well. But look, I think in preparing for this conversation here today, there was lots we could talk about, right? But obviously we've got to focus in on a few things. So I don't know. If you were just do this in case anybody needs a quick refresher update or they've been living under Iraq, describe Bombom, who are you and what do you do? Yeah. We make it very easy and simple to create videos and then send them in a place of messages anywhere. So anywhere you're sending a text message right now, you can simply send a video and track everything that happens with that video. So if I wanted to, I can send a video over LinkedIn. I can send it through Facebook, Messenger, I can send through email. I can send through, I use a Chrome app to put it into any place I want it. Yes, I can host them on websites. But typically what we're trying to help you do is stay face to face more often with the people that matter in your business. So what we like to focus on as a business is people who help people with their greatest asset, which is the home. So realtors, loan officers, insurance professionals, financial advisors, people who rely on a repeat and referral business, people who are necessary in the transaction, meaning like it's complex and I need to help you walk through this complex thing. That's the people who have been with Bombom a very long time, like yourself. They found us very early. We have thousands and a pound, thousands of them across 50 countries or something now. We're proud of that. I think those folks like yourself found us early and we've loved them. That's our focus. That's where we spend most of our time thinking. We try and solve problems for you. We partner with all of your coaches and all the people that you admire to bring content to you and what to say and when to say it. And then nutshell, video messaging. I think we understand these folks and your problems and your business better than anybody else that does what we do. Well, yeah, sure because the real estate industry is one that's still very personal, right? It's a much more. There's a lot of that personal brand element that could build on trust, I would say, right? I choose you based on trust in the consumers view. It's hard to say what's the difference between loan officer A and loan officer B, but when you meet someone, you guys build relationships through no like and trust. And for human beings, no like and trust is only typically built by meeting you and seeing you and feeling you and we can get into more of that. But I get really unattangent about that because to me, we ripped that out when we were confined to just sending text messages. To lose our humanness, that's for humanity, humanity, trust is for us. Trust is built on how we feel about a person. If they're going to be able to do for us, what we need them to do and do it better than the other people that we're meeting that do what they do, okay? So we feel like video really helps you do that. It's a lot of do's. That's a lot of do's in one team. No, but I think everybody's not in their head to in agreement. It makes a lot of sense, which of course is in part why social media has grown so much as well. That allows us to get to feel and know somebody through all that content. But I want to focus on at least for the first half of our conversation or for proportion of it is, this whole thing around, so you guys, your companies put out both Ethan and Stephen, two amazing folks on your team over there, have put out two books. One is rehumanize your business, selling books on Amazon, which is all about better business communication. But the most recent one, which I'm a huge fan of, which is human-centered communication, and one in the subtitle is a business case against digital pollution. That's right. And I thought that would be an interesting conversation for us to chew on a bit, because I think everyone's feeling that. Yeah, I do too, so you know, listen, well, first of all, the first, one of the best things I ever did in this business was hire those guys. Right, I worked with Ethan but he and I worked in a television station together. I was the online director, Ethan was the promotions director, we're on a leadership team and a local NBC affiliate when I and Connor came up with this crazy idea for, for bomb bomb. And it was like one of those jerrier, McGuire moments where I got Ethan to quit his job and come with me to the adventure. The foolish thing I did do is pay Ethan and stock early on and not in cash. Ethan's one of our biggest shareholders, you know, kind of, because he got in so early, but then Steve, I'm proud to say, has been with me over seven years. I think that's rare. Okay, so like he's our CMO, Ethan's our chief evangelist. I've worked with Ethan going on like 17 years now and at bomb bomb 10. So I'm really proud of that that we've all been the good or for a long time. But yeah, both books are great. The first one, rehumanize your business is about tactics and how to use video and step by step methodology and psychology around why video and when to do it, what to say. But the last one, human circle communication, a case against digital pollution. I like to say we focus, we help you focus more on the recipient of all of your digital communication because everyone, you said everyone needs that right now. It's because we just went through this pandemic and I swear that was the genesis of that book was, we're just, it's like this nuclear proliferation of digital stuff. Right. We define that as pollution. It's just noise, right? Because we no longer could be face to face. So it's like we leveraged up on just send more stuff and that's like, and here's the deal, like this phone rings, I don't answer it, like unless you're in it, I don't answer anymore. Okay. But in most of the time, it's, it's people trying to sell me an extended warranty in my car, like that's a big thing. Well, and this goes to the point of pollution and I was watching, by the way, the trailer for this, you know, video or movie, what do you call in this thing that you guys have? Dear first name. Dear first name. And so what's the intent behind this? Well, I bet you've gotten one of these emails that came to you. It just said it had this filler spot that's supposed to have Jeff in it and just says first name. That's how great we don't even care anymore. It's like we're just sending all this stuff either from our phones to LinkedIn or inbox. I mean, here's the thing I like to describe it to people. I think most people can relate to this. When you get a message now from a human, if you got that, or you got, say you're going to email five years ago, you would, it would say from this person's name, right? Right. And you would like, even if you weren't interested, you kind of felt a reciprocity. Like I need to let them know I'm not interested or I need to reply to this, right? Like, and that's because you thought that a human was on the other end of that email. What I think we've been learning and what our brains now know is that that's not true. Even if that says my name and it doesn't say first name, I don't believe you. I don't believe the human actually sent it. I think a machine that I think that technology did artificial intelligence did or automation did. And what that does is remove the reciprocity of me needing to respond to you. Now it's, click, shift, select all, delete all. I just don't, I just don't pay attention to that anymore. I think most people, it's just pollution to me. And so unless I know you, you don't get my phone answered. It just goes the voicemail, unless I know you, I don't respond to your email. So the question bags, how do I know you and how do humans build relationships and how do we trust each other? And so that's where we're kind of getting to in that book. And we try and help you focus more on the recipient because most communications based on the company sending it, what I want to get from it, not what the recipient should be getting from it. We have a mantra in marketing, it's be a value and abundance will follow. And that's really what that book's about. Well, that's really highlights, of course, probably the biggest problem with any tools. And I know you guys have seen this yourself as well. The misuse of a tool like bomb bomb, one of the things I grabbed when I was watching your trailer, I believe it was in that the digital pollution has led to the distrust of digital media, which you illustrated a moment ago with that email example. And think about the texting and think about it's like, yeah, you don't answer your phone anymore, right? We have this huge distrust of everything digital. So how do you think that video is the option, knowing that people still have to receive and open and engage with that message? How is that going to help us break through that? I do think that like video can be misused as well. And it doesn't necessarily only apply to video, but I can answer your question. I want to back up and say, look, any communication that focuses first on the value you're giving the person receiving it is more human centered, okay? So you can have a human centered text communication, absolutely. It's simply thinking about the recipient first and saying, am I bringing value to this person? Or am I just trying to set the appointment to meet my quota and get on to the next thing? It's less about me and it's more about them. So but in the video, I think it enhances it a bit more because like I was saying in beginning that human beings are unique that we decide if we trust someone based on meeting them. And like there's a bunch of, right, there's a bunch of psychology around this. A brief example would be that you see me talking with my hands, it's a gene I was given by my father, look, but back in the caveman days, if you didn't see my hands, you might think I'm holding a weapon. So that brain is still in there for you. So that trust is built through the tone you hear me say, you know, the tone I'm using, my inflection, my facial expressions, my hand gestures, your human brain is feeding all that in and saying, that person's talking to you and it's, you're registering that against all of your history, all your experience and you're deciding if you can trust them or not, or you're, you're sizing them up, right? Do I believe what they're saying? Do I understand what they're saying? All that happens in a, I think, you know, 99% of what I just described is removed in a text format, but yet texting and text has exploded not, I mean, hasn't been that long when you think about it. You're talking about the late 80s early, I got my first email address, I'm like 1993 or something. It's not too long ago, okay, but our brains for millennia have been communicating with all these other factors. So you're just, you're taking it all out, we've heard videos worth a thousand words and it is all that, but it's even more because most people in a business context, we're trying to get you to trust us so that we can work together, have a relationship that's reoccurring that then you'll also go so far as to refer other people to my service, especially for your audience, right? I mean, that's a big, it's not just trust, it's beyond, it's more trust, I'm going to vouch for you, which might be the highest level of trust someone can give in a business context, right? I think video does that better, I think your chances ask yourself from what I just said, do you think your chances are better by sending a text communication, whether that be social media, whether any kind of business context, when you're trying to get the attention of someone to work with you, is your chances better that way or face to face? Yeah. And if you're in sales, the answer is probably face to face. If your answer is not face to face, I would challenge that you're in the right spot. Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of whatever that old study was originally, I thought it was from Stanford, but you know the 738-55, right, which is the, what creates influence, it's the percentage of the words, 38% of the tone, 55% is body language and things like that. Yeah, and so video, if you're not in person, video, the next best thing to be in there, right? Yeah, I also think that there's a time-saving mechanism there that there's a, look, if you're a loan officer, you get the same question daily, right, like again and again, but you know, a better customer service or a better customer experience rather would be to tell that person, answer that question for them, right, like, so if you're my loan officer and I've been through this with my, I've been using Scott Seaman for years, he's done countless deals with me. What's this company? Yeah, it's great. It's big, central, great guy, so known for a long time and if it's a refi, I got questions. Like look, I own a business, we got 116 employees, I don't understand this stuff, I don't. This by me, but it's a complex transaction that he needs to help me understand like, what's going on here? What do I need to pay attention to or, you know, I'm building a house. That was a deal. Like, okay, I was just a construction long thing work and what, like, and then I do what at the end and what is Scott, how much cash does that, but he's gotten that question countless times. Okay, he can create one video that explains that process that he's gotten that question a hundred times, explain the process for new home construction, how that works, explain a refi, explain a VA, explain it, what's there's been conventional in VA, have all those kind of lined out and just boom, and you get the question, send the video. You can deliver a video in a way that feels very personal to the recipient because of your brain, our human DNA, because I can do something like this, hey, thanks for that. We get that question a lot. Here's the difference between a VA loan and a conventional loan, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I hope that makes sense. If you have any questions about that, don't hesitate to send me back. That's a very personal delivery that really you can only do in person. If I wrote that email out, it almost seems too casual, it seems wrong. That dear first name problem goes away because when I say that video, that's what we call an evergreen video. You can use it again and again and again, but it's made once, but delivered many times. But your brain says he's talking to you. There is no, just the assumption immediately is and it feels better than the customer experience is better that way. It's interesting. It's like your brain completely skips that step of needing a dear first name because it creates this personal connection, seeing a human face and all that right away. The level is huge, right? It's not trying to trick anybody, I'm trying to save you time. But arguably, the response from the recipient is, thank you so much. That was a great, gosh, they took the time to make a video for me. Look, even if they are on the idea that it was canned or evergreen, it's better. It's better than a text response to that question. So you mentioned the word customer experience and I know that's in, you know, people throw that word around a lot and as I was kind of preparing for this, I was curious to ask you how you would describe customer experience because I think that's one of those words where people thought, it's like, well, what does that really mean customer experience? So what's your response to that? Now, we're really into this at Bombam, as you know, our podcast is called the customer experience. And so I've been on the podcast and we asked this question of everyone who comes on the podcast, my answer is, and it's similar to I think the most people, but it's every interaction your customer has with your brand, okay? So for us, it'd be everything from, you know, your sales experience, how you, you like our books, the emails that we send, when you get on the phone with one of our representatives, how do that feel, feels important to me from my position, how you feel about our business. I personally want to feel approachable to people who, who have our service. I want to solve problems for people and I'm entrepreneur hard. I want people to know that I want that to come across when I hear me on podcasts like this, but to our customer success professionals who, when you're our customer, I want you to be a customer for a very long time. I want you to tell everybody about us just like you do and your listeners do. And so for a loan officer or a realtor, it might be, you know, how are you different than your peers? And how do you make them feel interacting with you? Because I like to give this illustration of a company A and company B, if, in my perception, let's say it's landscaping, right? In my perception, company A and company B have the exact same service they're providing. They cost the same. There's really nothing different between them. How do I decide which one I'm going to work with? And the really the way I decide, I think most people do is it's the one I like the most for whatever reason and how do we decide who we like the most through this human experience? So I think that if you're competing for business, which all of us are, all of us, how we, people feel about us as they're making that decision is a big deal. And really, we all look the same on a black text with a white screen or it's how to be show up in that or like you said, the social media, how are we educating people along the way so that like when I do have this need, I'm calling them, right? And I just think that video is one of the easiest ways to help them experience you and leads to this better customer experience, especially again, in a consumer's mind. I just don't know about these things. I'm not a professional in financial services and how much liability insurance I need. That's why I need you. So you showing up this way, helping me think through, you know, what's this interesting thing all about? What's inflation mean to me? Do I, should I keep my money in the bank or should I put it to work in real estate? I know everyone on this call has an answer for that, but explain that answer to me and help me understand it. That's your customer experience, right, in social media or whatever, you can put that message out there so that I can make a decision to choose you when I'm ready to have that need. Well, you've used, I put this in brackets here on my notes, you've used the word feel multiple times. How do I feel about engaging with this company, this brand? That's right. I guess what all comes down, that's how we're making an assessment of who we decide to give our time and attention and money to. And that's human-centered communication. And I think there's been this huge swing too much over correction to AI automation and look, there is a place for that. I am not against it, but you can't swing all the way to one side or the other, like there's a place to make our businesses more efficient using these tools, right? But in the business that I'm talking to, real estate, financial services, loan origination and any of those interns, any of those, that is not a place to commoditize those people. Repeating referral business is the lifeblood. Either you're getting a referral from an agent or you're getting a referral from a past client or you're getting new business from someone you just met because you're educating them around this complex thing. I would not, if I'm big in our business, how I run the business, we do not outsource core competencies. Okay, so we host our own videos, we encode our own videos, we send our own email, like none of that is third party service. I think if you're in one of these businesses, that should not be something you're commoditizing or outsourcing or third party using. You need to, if you just dove into these existing relationships and really got into those more, I think it benefits you exponentially down the road in your business. I mean, the lifetime value of a customer, I was like, what is that to you? It should be like six to 10 transactions per person, at least, right? When you think about that, as a consumer, like I have at least done six transactions with Scott. So I'm worth six and I've referred nine people or something at least to Scott. My lifetime value as a customer is great. So send me a video and say, thanks for your business, simple things just mean so much more money. We get caught up in these other things. I think that that commoditized or mitigated the relationship and you shouldn't do that, especially not now. Well, again, it goes back to noise and digital pollution, like what gets the headlines? AI and tech disruption, fintech and soft bank and everything that's going on there, that gets all the attention. It doesn't get the attention is what you and I are talking about, which is how business actually happens. You've said a number of things that made me think of like, and I know you know these stats pretty well too, which is, okay, five million homes are sold on average in a year. 89% of those people still use a real estate agent, right? Yep. Why? And I always like to do the comparison. I'm sure you've heard it before, which is, you know, it's one thing to 100% rely on tech and an app for an Uber ride. I'm just not going to do it, but I think the trust back to trust. Yeah, it's in relationship. Look, my, my realtor is at bear and Renee, the bear and bear team, right? Great friends of mine and I'm not going anywhere else. So, you know, we're, I'll self identify, I'm in the 50 plus category, but do you think even the newbies, the newer, the younger folks, do you think they're going to have a different, you know, appetite for that? Well, if you remember, I mean, five years ago, I remember saying that they weren't even going to buy homes. Right. And now, they're the ones that can't get a home that want, they're buying them in mass. So there's always, you know, there's always these predictions, but no, I do think that. Do they want to look, my wife is shopping for homes constantly. Not to buy them. She's voyeuristically, and I am too. I should have, she's going to hear this. Wait a minute. You're right there with me. You know, we're looking at homes that I get an alert that tells me every time a home comes for sale around my neighborhood, right? Like, and I'm like, oh, cool. Look at the pictures and how does my house rank? I think that's changed. That's changed information. I'm going to identify what I want. And I'm going to be very smart and be like, okay, Pete, I want this or Ed, I want this, you know, the benefit with bomb bombs, I got a real turn every bird, but I want to buy and reckon, Ridge, I can call Pete. And if I want to buy here, I could call Ed, you know, it's, but I know what I want to do there. I'm telling him, hey, I'm looking for something like this. Can you figure that out? Right? I can figure that out. But then I don't want to deal with it for, I don't, I don't think people have time or expertise to deal with this. Now, if you think you do, great, and some people might, but it's always going to be the very smart percentage. Look, for sale by owners has always been a small percentage compared to the market, okay? And we, look, like the headlines that sell are fear-based. The headlines, unfortunately, all media is based on ratings, okay? And that could be clicks, that could be engagement, whatever it is. That's what they're selling ads to promote it. So the headlines that aren't very sexy, you know, like in a better word, don't get promoted. And that is repeating referral business, that is, you know, relationships matter. They say sure do. So all right. So I think we've set up the stage right when I think everybody recognizes there's digital pollution, particularly since coming through the pandemic, when everybody was just stuck looking at their phones or their screens and, you know, the over. And then like you said earlier, is people have gone into the push everything out mode, just like the big thing of snow or your hat, just push the snow forward, right? Hopefully something good happens and that's creating this distrust and tuning out. But the other thing that is true is this is that tools like Bombom make it easy to have quote, human centered communication. Yet, and I know you know this, you probably see your usage stats, but, but why do not more people embrace it? Yeah, I got a lot to say about this, I'm glad you're back. So yeah, I'll just say our bomb bomb or two core comp me have two core competencies. The first one is speed to video. I want to make it easy to quickly record and send and track any in an environment. But the second one is guidance to success. And this will come all the way back to your question because people, when the camera turns on, somehow they don't, they don't know what to say. Like the person was sitting across for them in a, in a desk in that environment, in a restaurant, they know exactly what to say. But for some reason, when they turn the camera on, they have a hard time and there's a few reasons for that like to unpack. So I think the first one, maybe more for our generation is that we still remember that the 10 o'clock news and remember Ethan and I came from news. And so the 10 o'clock news or 11 o'clock news is the thing. And it was polished and was produced and it was people were in suits and they said things a certain way and you know, and we thought that video had to be like that to be good. And we kind of describe this as marketing through video, like marketing video, like it's polished, it's branded and all this stuff. Well, so that was for folks of a certain age, we say, don't think about it that way. Be more transparent, be less polished, be more authentically you. So that's a hardship for folks like us, okay, it is. And we help them walk through that. Then there's the newer younger folks from a younger demographic. They're being taught that you need to use a filter that you need to, you know, smooth your skin out that these things are what is good, that everyone's doing this, like you're not, you don't look good enough, so you need to fix yourself. Both are lies and both I don't think are authentically human and don't build trust. And in fact, I think all of those things I just described are the antithesis of what I was trying to communicate about feeling and trust and building a relationship. I think what here I got to talk about the third thing. How I hear myself talking right now is not how you hear me. Okay. So when I play back a video, I go, wow, I don't like that. In your brain says, do you don't like that? That doesn't sound like you because we hear ourselves in our heads. And the only time we really look at ourselves is in the mirror when we brush our teeth in the morning, but you know, zoom in these, you know, Microsoft teams, we do video conferencing now so that that's helped that more, but still it's how I sound. Most people don't do it because they don't like how they sound. They don't like how they look and they don't know what to say is what they claim. However, again, if you were to pick up the phone, they'd know what to say because they've been doing it for 20 years and it's no big deal for some reason the camera turns on. So I had to identify these kind of three bumpers that really challenged people to do video. Now I have some solutions to that. Would you like to think about that? Let's do it. I think for humans, what we really thrive on, what we need more of in this world is gratitude and empathy. Okay. So I'm going to get a little cycle cycle or do some psychology and a little deep here, but the first thing you should do if you're beginning to send video or getting into video and you're not sure about it is send gratitude videos to people you know and that like you and they know you and just say thank you. So it could be a past client that you've known forever send them a video and say thank you for your business sincerely show gratitude help them tell them how much you mean they mean to you. Thank you for the referrals for the last decade or whatever it might be. They will love getting that you will love sending it and you will usually get a message back from them being blown away and gratitude overwhelms. It also increases your referrals by the way. This helps people remember to refer you, but it doesn't have to be in a business context either. It could be a coworker. It could be a realtor partner. You've worked with for a long time that's always sending you referrals. Hey, I just you know what? I don't say it enough. I just want to take a quick second and send this video and say thank you sincerely. You meant so much to me and the business you've sent. I can't say enough of our relationship. Thank you so much. It builds confidence. Look, I get my I get goosebumps saying that and I'm like not even saying it to anybody. Our minds trigger off of endorphins. Those endorphins can be good. It's what social media is. We get triggered off the endorphins released by seeing these things like and getting likes. You can do the same thing, sending gratitude videos and receiving gratitude back and that helps us build empathy with each other helps people understand each other better. I need a lot more of that in this world and it makes you feel good, makes other people feel good. And then when those endorphins get going, you actually start wanting to do video. It's the same thing that drives you back to social media again and again. I'm not trying to make you an addict for bomb bomb, but I am trying to make you an addict for gratitude and thankfulness and I trust me if you change your mindset and you start your day with gratitude. So what do you usually tell people you're getting going video for next two weeks send five gratitude videos a day. The harsh thing you're going to have is, who am I going to send my gratitude today for? Even if it was one or two videos of gratitude a day, you will get used to sending videos and it will build your confidence and you'll be better at it. That's a great exercise actually for somebody to do to put down a list of every person that you're grateful for. It could be relative to whatever. Like you said, past clients, but I think the point is to be family could be that lives across country. Yeah. Just get yourself into the habit. Like you said, the positive loop that happens with all the kind of jazz, then you'd be comfortable with it. And most importantly, like you said, we could all do better by having higher levels of gratitude, right? Success in anything is about mindset. If you're working out, you're exercising. It doesn't matter. It's about mindset business. It's about mindset. It's about perseverance and this is no different, but that exercise just has this reciprocating effect of before you and them and it's great. Yeah. So gratitude. Love it. Ampathy was that part two? Yeah. So I really think we lack empathy for each other in the only way that we can really build that is the build to to no one another deeper. And so I do think that empathy is tied into the gratitude video because you just build that deeper relationship. We just don't do these things enough. Like we're usually too grumpy to say thank you, like in an intentional way. Like we could say thank you for this or thank you for that. But being intentional, it builds empathy for other people. So then when I do get grumpy, you have, I got chips in the bank, so to speak like for my wife, if I show her gratitude and intentional gratitude, the next time I'm grumpy, she's got way more empathy for me if I screw it up, right? So when you do screw something up, you got chips in the tank or chips in the bank that can be retracted instead of always just kind of one step away from not being referred, right? Yeah. Yeah, what was it all that all that they used to say about making deposits in the emotional bank account? That's right. Like that because then you got plenty to draw on. So if you're always extracting from the emotional bank account, then yeah, you don't have much to draw from. That's cool. I like that. I love that practice of, you know, five videos a day. Maybe it's one a day. Right. You can handle. Yeah, it is just start. Yeah. Gratitude. And then amp it up to these videos to customers and doing things like that. Hmm. Interesting. So are you an advocate then for quality over quality, quality over quantity for content, video content? Yeah. I think I can tie that back into this. One question I get all the time is how long should the video be? And I always say as long as it needs to be. Because if it's a complex singer walking through, it could be a two minute, three minute video. If it's not like it can be less than a minute, if it's a quick response, right? But I think it just depends on what is the message. So I use video all the time, but I don't do it if it's like, yeah, that sounds good thanks. I don't do a video. Right. But if it's not, I typically will just send a video because I want to be heard and understood and I want them to see, hear my tone, hear my inflection, all those things. So in I do both, I've sent over 10,000 personal videos or something. I think our leader in our company is in over 27,000, one to one videos. I think Ethan's in the 20,000's. So we're zealots for it. Like we're fundamentalists, okay? So I think that how he's talking about, I'm like, look, we're fundamentalists. You can't make everybody think this way like we got to we got to walk them along. So quality, yes, quantity, maybe absolutely choose your battles in the beginning, not everything has to be a video. But gosh, if it's better set in person, send a video, right? It'd be better said face to face, send a video. Okay, I love that. Before we run out of time, let's also give a couple pointers on referencing your book here at Human Center Communication. Once again, yes, video can pollute. So how should they not be using video? I mean, in Bombom, you can send a mass email with a video on it. I don't love that. I think that again, the tenet to hold to in all these digital communications is what value, I mean, for real value, my brain to the recipient. And then this is from Ethan, and he says it's all the time. One, he would say a and then be a, you know, every communication you send, you're setting up for the next send. So if it's not a value, you start to get people to not trust you. So the next time you send them something, they don't open it. Everyone calls us like, oh, my open rates are horrible. It's your fault. No, it's your fault because you're not sending things out of value. So that's a big deal to understand in all marketing, digital communication, right? So if we're sending things, we're setting up the next open rate, remember that. And then be, if you don't know them and you picked up the phone and you said, hey, Jeff, what's up? And they don't know who you are. You probably shouldn't be sending them an email on solicited. No one wants to hear that, okay? I'm a big Seth Godin fan. I don't know. I built this business based on the idea of a thousand true fans, a purple cow. You should know these people. You don't need a hundred thousand, a thousand even sometimes in your database. You need 200 that really appreciate you and will refer you. You have a great business if you do that well. Some people, I get it. You get bigger. It's fine. I'm not against it. But what are your open rates? Sure. Can you pick up the phone and do they know who you are? Fantastic. That's scales. That's scales. It's interesting. I'm thinking about that from my side of the things in that I help people with outbound marketing an email and things like that. And yeah, it's right from your point of view. I tell you, Google and Outlook and these guys are not getting more like accepting of these tactics. Right. Well, look at what Apple's doing. Oh, yeah. Let me see. Right. Google's right behind them. Email. Look, they're removing tracking from email could be happening and we will see that happen. So the communication is going to be valuable because that's how you know they received it because they're going to respond to you. We got to start thinking about that now because those things are all moving very, very, very, very quickly. Facebook's valuation just got collabored just on the announcement of it. That's, that's, that's very true. Eventually, I mean, it's likely they say, right? I think Seth Godin said that, right? Marketers ruin everything. 100%. I also think he wrote a book called Marketers or Liars. Yeah. I got a few of them over here on the shelf. This is marketing is one of my favorites. Yeah. All right. Well, look at that. We are just about out of time. This has been amazing conversation. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchase loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. 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