Mastermind Summit Top Producer Panel

And what's up, this is Jeff Simperer, host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast. This is where we help mortgage professionals move from solicitor and vendor to partner and peer in the eyes of real estate agents. If you want more engagement from agents, more conversations, you are tired of chasing. You want to attract the right agents to you, the producing agents who have the business and who understand the partnership mindset. Hey, that's what we help people do here in our platform at my agent classes. And I wanted to share with you that I just released for our members, normally I'm bringing you a success story, you know, wind of the week, that kind of stuff. So I'm going to do something different here real briefly and let you know that in today's market, right? What you're going to hear from our special guests in a moment, I asked them two questions and that is my first question is what do peripheral partners need from us right now? So this is going to be an amazing conversation. It's a live recording that I'm repurposing for you to give you an insight into some of the most successful, established leaders, you know, producers and coaches that are out there today. My special guest coming up will tell you about that in a second. But before I do, one of the conversations we have, one of the questions I asked is what do peripheral partners need from us? And the overwhelming kind of thread of the conversation is what they need from us by large is education, right, support guidance. You could also call it empathy. And to that point, our members within my agent classes are going into the local market, attracting agents and equipping themselves to be more valuable partners. How do they do that? Leading with education and resources, we just launched winning strategies for buyers agents, how to elevate your process, maximize your value and lock in your commission. What is that? It's a turnkey plug-in play presentation class that our members go teach in their local market to get in front of agents at scale to have meaningful impactful conversations that lead to conversations and referrals. And that's just one example of over 20 different class topics and other resources we've got to help you add value to your referral partners. If you want to learn more, you can book a call with me, go to mortgagemarketing.pro, book a call on my calendar. It's 30 minutes. Let's connect and see if we're fit for each other, mortgagemarketing.pro. And you can get your hands on that class winning strategies for buyers agents in over 15 other classes, email campaigns, social media images, done for you landing pages, weekly mastermind and coaching calls in this thriving community of mortgage originators who are all making progress and making an impact in the market today, mortgagemarketing.pro. Okay. So as I said, I'm bringing you a recorded conversation with my special guests from today. And these are three people that I've admired for quite some time in the industry. And they are number one, Sue Woodard, how would I describe Sue? She's got a passion for people. She brings over 30 years of financial services and mortgage industry experience. She's in a strategic vision and leadership role as a senior advisor and consultant with the Stratmore group. She's a FinTech evangelist. She's just an amazing human being. And she has incredible insights into what consumers need from you today with all the great data that Stratmore group has in their CX division. The other guess we've got is shot Benosian, guaranteed rates, number one loan officer, eight years running and the number one loan officer nationwide, five years running with over 40,000 closed units and 9 billion in funded loans throughout his 20 year career. This is a clinic that shot unpacks about how do we add more value to referral partners, clients? What is your process? How does he gain market share? What is his actual process with referral partners? So definitely get ready to take notes for each one of our guests in this conversation. And my final guest is somebody who I've followed and really admired for quite a number of years as well and who was a mentor to me in my years as an originator. And that's Cindy Ertman. Cindy is the CEO and founder of the Defining Difference and it's a coaching and training company devoted to helping you master the power of intentional choice in creating a defining difference in your life. Cindy to me is all about strategy, heartfelt leadership and connection. And this was just a fire conversation that we had in our private Facebook group over on Facebook. So if you're not there yet, go to Facebook and type in mortgage marketing radio and join that group. This is a chance to get access to these kinds of conversations live when they go. So that's what this conversation is. I hope you find value. And lastly, the other reason why I put this together is I am going to be a guest speaker as well as my three guests at the upcoming mortgage mastermind summit in Las Vegas. And this is a conference that's been going on for years. It's one of the most well attended, highly reviewed conferences out there. And it's June 5th through 7th in Las Vegas, the mastermind summit dot com. You can go there, book your registration right now. I'm not getting anything for this other than I wanted to give back to the industry and help spread the word on behalf of Matt Emory, who is the promoter behind the mortgage mastermind summit. And it's just a cool dude. Number one, number two, more people don't need to know about this conference, especially at this time in the market, your career, maybe you need to sharpen the saw, maybe you need to get around some people who think differently. This is your opportunity to do that. It's very affordable for you to be there. Go check it out in the link in the show notes mastermind summit dot com book your reservation. You will not regret doing so. So I hope you enjoy this conversation without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Okay. Number two, Sue, my dear Sue. I always think of you Sue. I know you and I we joke about this is like how many years ago was that where I brought Walter Sanford in to your office and teach a class to real estate agents and the bridge broke. Yeah. It was like literally the day after our 35 W bridge collapsed and we still had a great turnout thanks to you. So it was a it was a crazy day. Definitely unforgettable. Well, not crazy. We still had a great turnout by the main bridge to the where you are still is broken, so yes. Yes. So you've been an impactful leader. You're thoughtful. You're focused. I know you're passionate about people and you're an impactful educator for me. And I'm sure many people here in the industry, anything you want to say on top of that where you're doing a Stratmore group. No, I love I just that that was a great intro. It's kind of like Cindy said. I'm at 34 years and you know, so a lot of us I think probably on this call recognizing some of the names have also been in this business. So I'm that's what I love about this industry is here we are. We're still connecting. We're still getting together and learning from each other. So I love it. Awesome. And last but certainly not least, well, man, Sean, Sean was one of my guests on my podcast a long ass time ago. I didn't get a chance to look, but I'm over 320 episodes now and I think you were like in the double digits, maybe number 20, 30, 50 or something like that. So that was a long time ago. And if you guys don't know who Sean is, he's the number one loan officer eight years running in the country over 40,000 closed units nine billion and funded loans throughout his 20 year career in mass brother. What up, Sean? Thanks for being here. My pleasure. Honestly, it's what a room full of people. I think it's pretty cool to be here. Obviously, some people I know some people I know of and some people love to get to me, but I'm excited about the event. So. All right. Yeah. All of us here, including myself are featured presenters at this year's mastermind summit. And so as a thank you to Matt Emory, the man behind the summit this year, I wanted to bring some attention and awareness to that event this year coming up, which you have, if you haven't yet registered yet, you should definitely consider it, especially you're going to hear sneak peek from each of our three guests here today and what they're going to talk about. So with that setup, I'm going to open up with two questions and the first question is and I'll start with you, Sue, top left corner, we're going Brady Bunch here. What do referral partners need from us today in this current market environment that we are in? Well, I think it's interesting you said referral partners, you didn't say realtors because I think there's a big difference between what realtors probably need from us today versus some of the other referral partners that we might work with. So I would say probably the real estate agents need a lot of help with their communication and education of their clients. There's a lot of confusion and a lot of fear and a lot of trepidation about the housing market right now. People aren't sure kind of what to do and when to do it. And of course, we know all of our friends, the agents are under a lot of confusion and fear and speculation themselves in terms of some of the things going on with the commission, lawsuits and so forth. So it's interesting that it's just a time that I feel like helping them, partnering with them and helping them get their message out to consumers out there, to would be homeowners, would be home sellers and helping them help the consumers that we're all looking to serve is probably the most important thing. Okay. I love that setup. So what I'm going to do is this is I'm going to pivot to each of our guests here. I'm going to piggyback on each one of those answers. So let me pivot to shot for a moment if you don't mind. Let's balance out the energy here. What would be some tactical ways you think we could implement that premise of we need to help our referral partners with more education? Yeah. I mean, that's been the way that I've always decided to essentially grow my business. I believe when you educate, you attract. I believe when you inform, you motivate. And what I mean by that is like when you, I lead with education, I'm always whether or go in a financial planning office is going to my real estate agent offices, whether it's having events, I'm whether it's when the NAR lawsuit rolled out like within within three weeks of the NAR lawsuit. We had an event where we brought in a speaker to help coach realtors on how to communicate buyer agency and how to be able to communicate their value proposition. We had a 250 person event with three weeks planning. We had a 1200 person event at the beginning of the year to kick things off. Every single week, I'm in three different real estate offices coaching about what's going on in the market. So I'm spending time, you know, educating myself in terms of what's going on. And then when I say you educate, you attract, I'm picking up the right kind of referral partners because the people that are into the kind of information that I'm putting out there are the ones that start working with us. The ones that are like, you know, I like that person, they add value, I'm going to work with them. So I tend to attract the kind of people that value you, treat you respectfully, send you the right kind of clients, and same things with the clients. Like, you know, every single person, no matter who they are, no matter who they get referred to me by the first questions, let's talk about rates, right? But when you start educating them on how to win in the market, how to, you know, improve affordability, what type of steps they should take to prepare for homeownership, then you don't get commoditized and it's not only about rate, you're differentiated, your conversion increases. So, education is big for me because it attracts the right kind of clients and it attracts the right kind of partners. It does require that I spend a lot of time on my own getting educated in terms of what's going on in the mortgage business and the housing market. But I'm a professional. Like, all pros, no matter what they do, should be an expert in their market. Like, I don't think it's okay not to be an expert, not to be up to date with the trends that are going on, how to speak confidently. And then information motivates. And what I mean by that is, you know, there's a lot more buyers than there is sellers, right? So, like, when people don't know what to do, when they get in a stressful situation, they freeze. I want to make sure my buyers aren't freezing, and I want to make sure my realtors are prepared with buyers that aren't freezing in competitive situations, which I assume every single one of them are going to be. So I want to make sure my clients are informed, prepared, confident, empowered, and they're motivated to act. And I'm not going to be the ones that freeze. And I can tell you that my buyers convert at a higher rate because of all the work that we do and all the education we put in. And that, to me, makes me a strong partner to my referral partners, whether it be real tourists, financial advisors, because like, they're actually having an experience with me. I'm advisory. And I know I'm long-winded here, so please, I apologize. But the harder things get, the better it is for us as professionals, because it makes us much more valuable in the eyes of the consumer and the realtors. So like, when I hear things are hard, I'm like, great, because we become more valuable. When things are easy, then it's just about like, hey, once you're ready, send me a pre-approval, I'm good, right? They don't need us. When things are difficult, whether it's affordability, competition, whatever it is, I bring a lot to the table, and I'm a difference maker in terms of whether they buy a house or not buy a house or win the house or not win. So that's why education is so important. Love that, man. I love it. 100%. Cindy, I'm going to come over to you. Same question. What do referral partners need from us in your opinion? Well, I couldn't agree more with Sue and Sean. I just, to piggyback on that, I think it's all about education. When I look at the loan originators that I'm coaching now that are really getting traction and challenging market, and over the last year and a half, it's been those that like Sean are educating themselves every single day, and it's their morning practice. You know, they've got six or seven resources that they study, and the ability to educate creates trust and partnership with your agents, and your competition, much of it isn't doing that. So I'm a huge fan of starting with leading with education. I look at what I do personally to educate myself every single day, like I'm a total information junkie. So I study the markets, I'm not even on the front line of origination anymore, but it's fascinating to me because this business is in my blood. I really believe right now because I did build my origination business really with realtors at the helm of it, for sure, and financial planners were my two primary sources of business. And I really believe it's about collaboration and partnership now more than ever. I turned all my business over 10 years ago when I launched my coaching and training company to my partner, and I still am meeting with realtors regularly to toss realtors into that bucket by creating a different level of value. So they need support, they're dealing in fear. I'm not as fearful as many of the people in the market. I think just 35 years in this business and all the change we've gone through as originators when we think back to 2007 and all the shifts that came from that. I believe wholeheartedly I've been a licensed realtor since 1979, and I've never represented myself. I wanted independent representation. I believe in it wholeheartedly. I think meeting with our realtors partners and creating strategies around how you can cross sell their value is really, really powerful right now. I met with two realtors in the last week for dinner. Both of them, they're not fearful because they've been expecting this. They've been a Tom Ferries coaching program for the last couple of years, and they've been talking about this for a long time. This has already been integrated in the state of Washington. And we just find a new normal and a new way of doing business. And yes, they're going to have to prove their value, just like we have to prove our value. But I think in collaboration and partnership, to really meet with your realtors and get clear on what they think their value is, so you can shine a brighter light on it when they refer you a client. Really completely. I used to do a questionnaire with every realtor I'd meet with to just really log their greatest strengths so that I could reflect that every time I had a call with a borrower that they referred. I think collaboration, partnership, creating value, helping them create value, giving them value propositions, meeting with them on what they're doing to market their business, how they're going to depict their value and their listing presentations, and really just really collaborating and helping them be more successful in a challenging market for them as well. It's partnership. Yeah, those are one of those things like those of us who have been around in the industry for a minute, like many of us here, we've heard that phrase for a lot of years and yet I know a lot of L.O. is still struggle with partnership. And I don't want to make light of that word and you said something and we're all talking about this right now, Sean references as well, the NAR settlement thing. Like I know in our group, I see that you mentioned cross cell value. I see this NAR settlement as one of the greatest opportunities I've seen in the last half a dozen years to deeply integrate ourselves in the buyer process, the buyer consultation and to have a better client experience for those agents who get it, you know what I mean? Because not everybody gets it with the whole handoff to the lender and you edifying the realtor and all those things. So I'll open that up to any one of you three who wants to piggyback on that. I mean, I'll just chime in in terms of like, you know, we literally like we had this seminar where we just kind of like coach them on what like, you know, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of questions from realtors in terms of like, well, what's going to happen? Right? What is this? What do you think the anticipated changes are going to be? And I don't deal in the world of like make believe, right? I have no idea how Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA and everybody is going to interpret these changes and the changes they're going to make, like no clue. All I can educate them on it, like what they can do today already based on what like guidelines allow, what programs allow, mastering things like interested party contribution, how to structure the deals within the allowable different programs, loan devalues, the different questions we're going to ask up front today to, you know, understand if a buyer, for example, is paying the buyer agency fee out of pocket, like, verifying cash to close, structuring deals with credits and all that kind of stuff. So like, I don't get cut up too much in terms of like, what may happen because like, I don't control that, right? But there's so much information we can provide them today, just alone regarding how to structure deals, understanding max financing, understanding interest party contributions, different loan programs, that that alone in itself will make you look like a superstar and it's not that complicated and it's so simple, but to, and to a lot of us, it's like, oh, well, that's not like that, like that's not like, oh, that's, maybe that's not that enlightening or that's not a great response, but you'd be very, very surprised how 99% of the real state agents have no idea what we're talking about and no idea that you can do that. And to them, it's brand new information and it's very valuable information because ultimately, it's also like, you know, that's not the world they're living in every day. It's our responsibility to kind of educate them and stuff. So like, I have, you know, so many, I can't tell you the amount of questions I've gotten about, well, when are you going to be able to finance and buy our commissions? Like, I don't even, I don't, you know, speculate, right? I just deal with like, what can we do today to win? And the cool part is, is that, you know, they have 90 days, right, to prepare, or maybe a little bit less than that now. Oh, it nuts. It's, you know, July 1st, right? So it's 60 days, like, they don't have to wait till then to start making changes. Like, they should be making changes in anticipation of that happening, right? Like, you know, if you're in sports, you don't just figure out what you're going to do when the game starts, right? You prepare, prepare, practice, do all these things. And so like, that's where we can get out in front and lead our agents and I do think we become that much more important, whether it's to a selling agent or to a buying agent. So that's on that. And so let's get the conversation going in the chat or whether you want to unmute yourself. I put a question in there, a couple of questions. What conversations are you having with your agents around the NAR settlement, around buyer agency agreements, around overcoming the commission gap? Hey, Jeff, our CEO, which, which, you know, from Synergy, he was at the, at the housing wire event that just happened, right? And he was so surprised to, to see how many real estate agents had no dang clue what was even happening in their own business. Yeah. And, and to chance point, I think that that's the education is huge and they don't even know their own brokerages aren't giving them this information and they're not being educated on it. And again, we're 60 days away from this being implemented and they have most of them have no clue what they're going to do. So I think that that's what we're going to provide the most value to our referral partners is by doing that ourselves. Now, we're not going to talk about the legal ramifications of things. We're going to talk about what we do. We can't control now and what it looks like from the, from the loan officer's point of you. What we can do. Right. How many of you here in the chat right now feel that that's not your area to discuss? I'm wondering if that's a narrative anybody's having in their own head. Be very curious. Sue, you put something in there right now from a survey. Yeah. I popped something in there. I'll put a link to the survey in a minute. But it's kind of interesting. Clever did a survey of home buyers, home sellers. And you know, it's kind of interesting just the numbers that come back in and I think, you know, there's a lot of information in the survey where there's a lot of misinformation out there. One of the things that came up. I didn't paste it in yet, but 76 or 73% of people in their surveyed consumers said that they believed agents over inflated property values to secure a higher commission. Which is crazy when you think about that because it just doesn't make, I mean, it, it doesn't make logical sense. But that, that stood out to me along with some of these other numbers here, just in terms of some of the, just, you know, as we're saying, lack of knowledge, lack of education. There's a lot of speculation. There's a lot of things going on and I like what Sean just said about like, let's play with what's actual reality right now and keep people focused on that so that you can take actually on the right time comes. That's very interesting. I think that's the first area I know for our group, you know, where we put together classes for our loan officer members to go teach to real estate agents. We just put this brand new class together, winning strategies for buyers agents and it's about how to elevate, help them elevate their process, maximize their value and lock in their commission. Speaking of surveys and studies, it was interesting to see that there were two sides of the survey from 1000 while consulting. One of the questions was, why do you feel the services of a real estate agent are not necessary when buying a home 45% said because I can find homes for myself online and tour them at open houses. And then the next, you know, opposite side of that coin is which of these statements do you think is most true? And I'll just for sake of time, I'll give you the one they thought was most true, 55% of the people felt an agent can help buyers make smart decisions looking at the pros and cons of buying a home, translating inspections, disclosures, et cetera, et cetera. So this gets back to everything we talked about so far, which is the theme of this whole thing is, depending on the state you're in, but let's just agree, most states, the buyer, agent, hasn't had to demonstrate their value for compensation. Now they do. And whether they're getting good training or not on that or not, doesn't matter because I want to be the yellow who's the facilitator of that. And to Sean's point earlier, leading with education, you're going to attract like-minded people, hopefully weed out the weenie heads and deal with those people who write, have that same kind of value-based, you know, approach to doing business and they're attracted to the same types of people. So there's my riff on that. More good stuff from you, Sue, by the way, people look at the chat, call past clients, catch up. Was that an answer to the question about CSCPAs? Yeah, but now I'll just share on that real quick to state, I've always, that's what I used to use when I was looking for kind of alternative referral partners besides realtors as I would call my past clients and talk to them about what kind of financial planner do you use, CPA, insurance agent, because you win with whatever they answer. If they say, oh, I don't work with anybody great, you can say, gosh, it's such an important thing that you do work with somebody. You know, I know you've got three young kids, you've talked about sending them to college. I have a great financial planner that I love to put you in touch with so you can get on that path. They say, no, it's a great answer to get someone to refer if they say, yeah, I work with somebody amazing. You know, I love this person that I work with, then you can call up that financial planner and say, Sally, I can't believe it. I work with John Smith. He raved about you. You know, I'd love to talk to you a little bit about your practice and see if we might be a fit. So those are, that's what I always found really successful as a win win. You know, also if it were me and you have a financial planner, I would be introducing the right clients to my financial planner, right? When asking that question, you know, looking at their total financial picture and asking them those questions about their long term financial future and plan, and if you discovered that they need some help and direction, hey, would you be open to, right? I've worked with this guy, Micah. This is a guy, Micah. By the way, Micah, my financial planner was introduced to me by our realtor, all right? So it makes sense. And then I would do the same thing. You know, if it was you, Jackie, I'd just say, hey, Jackie, so, you know, before we move on, like, I'm just curious, I'll be getting into some questions about your financial future planning, same stuff. Sue said, college planning, how do you feel, do you feel comfortable about your plan for the future? Uh, no, probably not, right? Okay, great. Would you be open to an introduction to somebody that I found to be very helpful? That would be the first place I start with how do you get in with financial planners? Because then once you tee up a couple of those, then you ask your guy, hey, who do you know? Can you put together a blanchine, you know, whatever the thing is? All right, now we're flowing people. Let's keep the dialogue going. I'm going to, for a sake of time, transition. Yeah, go ahead. I just want to share that many years ago, I launched my own network group. And so the first person I wanted in my network group was a financial planner. And I really didn't have one on the bus. So I put together a script. I now lead a whole training around how to build relationships with financial planners, but I put together this great script that was really about what we could do to support them by referring them, referral sources. It wasn't about asking for business for them, but I picked five financial planners. I got meetings with all five. I selected the one that I wanted in my group. Ultimately, he became my financial planner. He's still my financial planner to this day. I would go into his office twice a year and present and have more leads than I knew it. I, you know, what to do with after I left that meeting every single time. Because I spoke their language, you know, I presented opportunities for loans that, where they could keep more of the assets under management since that's our hot button. But financial planners are such a great resource for business. And they're really easy to get into because you've got such a big opportunity to educate your clients on while they are important. The other thing I did with my financial planner is once we had a relationship, I offered to be his referral source, meaning he could use me as a testimonial. So he would refer people to me to close him as their financial planner. So we were like in lockstep together. But one of the best referral, I probably got 20% of my business, like year after year after year from my financial planner. I have three of them, actually at different stages of investment criteria, but it's such a great other pillar of business for mortgage originators right now. 100%. And let's not forget the debt consolidation opportunities, right? 100%. Yeah, I mean, those are the conversations to be having with your past clients to Sue's point earlier. Look at this is the fundamentals, but around forever, everybody in this group gets it. But like, you know, the calls you make to your past client database, right? The annual reviews or whatever they are to look at their financial situation and look for those. We know people are getting in debt, right? In this current economy and market and all that stuff, not to go down that rabbit hole, but that's another source for you. The fourth attorneys as well, hold another subset, which, you know, on the podcast, I've had a few different people who specialize in getting divorced, you know, certified and all that kind of stuff. So definitely a viable market for you to pursue. For a second time, I'm going to have to pivot to real briefly. Let's go, let's take you first, Cindy, on what do the consumers that we're engaging with right now need most from us? Well, you know, it's interesting because I had a conversation with the National Mortgage Bank leader last week, and they have a consumer direct division. So we have this conversation about consumers, but to your point about debt consolidation, he said their number one product from their consumer division is cash out refives. And now, you know, he's really pushing into their retail division to start making those calls, like Sue said to the past clients, I think making those calls on a lot of originators don't do it is so key, because I think the consumers, more than not, I mean, we are, as we know, in one of the highest appreciating markets, there's more equity and property in America today than ever before, and also the highest amount of debt. But we're not, you know, no one's calling to say, I need to pull cash out to that. So there we go. I'm in trouble. Like, yeah, you know, I'm keeping my 3% rate, which is silly. Because I, time after time after time, my clients are saving people, you know, 1,500, 1,700 a month, and really changing people's monthly cash flow by asking the question and talking about, hey, just, you know, educating your consumers and your client base on that simple fact that, hey, you know, we are in a very high debt situation. We don't talk enough about debt, but, you know, so you might take a 7% rate, but if you're paying off your 23% interest rate credit card or you're consolidating your car loan and your student loan debt, I mean, it's really an important conversation. But the fact that it is their number one loan right now, there's another opportunity, but getting loan officers, and you guys, I'd love to hear if you're actually calling your past client database because that was a source of 20 to 30% of my income every single year. And I called 10 past clients on Tuesday and 10 past clients on Thursday, my entire career and opened up a lot of opportunities. So I think it's a, I think consumers right now need the same kind of education about what's going on in the marketplace to be able to make educated decisions about buying because that's one thing I learned from one of my favorite agents many moons ago when I first got in the business is Ren said to me, time solves timing problems in real estate. And so I lived with that philosophy. My son came to me five years ago and says, Mom, everyone's telling me it's the wrong time to buy that, you know, we're at the top of the market. I shouldn't buy a house. I said, don't listen to your friends. If you can get into a house, let's get you prequalified. Let's, and he bought a house two weeks later. And if you don't think five years later, he's happy. He bought his house when he did. So time solves timing problems in real estate. So now is the time like that. Okay. Thank you for that. Let's hop on over to Shant. Same question. What, how are you engaging with consumers and what do they need from us? Yeah. So, you know, two, I mean, really mostly two ways. And, you know, one would be, we're still doing a lot of email marketing, right? Like email is not dead. What's dead is like boring HTML emails, right? Like those get deleted immediately and go into or get like unsubscribe to. But we send out and I send out anywhere from three to five emails a week of just stuff that I find interesting ways like almost stuff that you would see no different than like what you'd see on like when you're scrolling your Instagram feed, right? Or so like I'm putting together very short emails that we're constantly sending out sometimes I'm just recording videos that I'm posting on my Instagram and sending it out via email like through bomb on or something like that. And we're doing a lot on social. So every single time we do a transaction with somebody, whether it's when I say transaction, whenever we get somebody's contact information, whether it's a new lead closing, whatever, we're putting them into our Instagram Facebook and LinkedIn. And then we're just we're constantly posting there. We're making sure that they're seeing our stuff. So like to me, you know, I say this all the time just because somebody's not commenting or liking your social doesn't mean they're not, you know, paying attention to what you have going on. Think about like think about when you scroll. Do you comment like every single thing you see but doesn't mean you're not paying attention, right? So like so probably the two biggest ways that I'm, you know, I have 100,000 people in my over 120,000 in my email database at this point. So I, you know, I'm not going to lie. Like I'm not calling my consumers individually at this point. However, I am calling them when it's time to refinance, when it's, you know, when I'm we're utilizing tools when they have life events and all that kind of stuff. So it's a little bit more reactive to events that they have going on through utilizing technology that I didn't have access to 10 years ago or when I first got started. So it's a little bit more, there's a method behind it. But the activity that I have like my email, my average email open rates, always over 40 percent, right? So like there's a lot of people reading my emails on a weekly basis and there's a lot of people see my social and they feel like because we're, we're, you know, communicating with them in a way where like I always say when you're on social be social, right? So when people are commenting on your posts, like make sure you're engaging them back, like they're being talked to when they're direct messaging you, direct message back, right? So like it's just a different, like there's certain things that I couldn't do early on in my business that I can do today because the way we communicate with people changes. So, but I'm trying to do everything, like I'm literally emailing on social, I'm texting, I'm direct messaging, I'm calling, I'm mailing, I'm on the radio, like you name it, like I'm figuring out, I don't know how people are going to consume my content. So I just try to do all of it and figure out, like let them figure out how they want to digest it. And it's working. Yeah, they can opt out if they want or whatever. So what I heard there was two things. Well, one thing primarily is when you close a transaction, let's say, is you're adding those people to social. And so you're building your social network there every single time, which is awesome. The question I had for you is I'm on your, I'm available weekends email. And I'm curious, how's that working, man? Surprisingly, it works very well. You know, the amount of business that I get every single weekend. So we usually generally take almost without question, like 40 to 45 full-out loan applications every single weekend. So like, you know, and that's like when people are out there making offers. So like, so what it does is this, one, it makes sure I'm in my Realtors inbox with all my contact information literally every single weekend. And so what happens is one, they don't feel like they're bugging me, right? They know that I want, like it's an open invitation to reach out to us over the weekend when they're busy in your business. It's a nice little reminder, it keeps me top of mind. Let's them know that I want to do business too. But then the other thing it does is that every single Realtor that I'm not there, number one or number two, when they can't reach their number one or number two, I'm picking off all those deals, right? And there's enough of those people to keep me extremely busy. And then eventually it leads to, well, hey, I showed up for you when you needed me. Let's get together, come to my events, let me come in your office, let's get to know each other. And slowly I go from three to two to one. And you know, if you're consistent with it, if you're consistent with anything, it pays off. And like, you know, I can't tell you how many people I meet, like when I'm out of these events, like I've been getting your emails for 10 years, you know, like, you know, and like, and it's awesome. Like that's exact, and I tell them, I'm like, you know, I love it. And then a lot of them are like, you know, regarding my previous answer about emails not dead, like, you know, some Realtors are like, I get an email from you every single day. And like, they're not unsubscribing, right? If they were, they wouldn't be seeing them, right? So like, it's just all about staying in top mind and like the amount of business that we've, we didn't do more business in 2023 than I did in 2022, right? But my market share grew probably the most it's ever grown in any year. Because like, a lot of people are choosing to sit this market out and waiting for it to come back. Like, we are on like full-on offensive. Yeah. There's not this land grab talent. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That's, that's, that's a great answer. I was always curious about that weekend email, which by the way, I know some of you listening right now, you don't send the I'm available weekend email. You don't want to be available on the weekend. Don't want to be reachable. I'm calling BS on that because, you know, you heard it here. And I remember early on in my career, it's like, especially when you're ramping up, it's like, dude, you got to embrace the suck. You got to take the calls when you don't want to. Yeah. I mean, I'll just comment on that because like, like, it doesn't suck when you're phone rings on the weekends in this business. Like, that's like, that's when people are out there looking at houses. Like, this is the business that we've chosen to do, right? Like, if you don't want to work like when like our nights and weekends, like, this might not, like, you know, I mean, everybody can do whatever they want, but like, I'm intentional about like, you know, that's when like, the magic happens. Like, if I get all those applications on the weekends, while all the offer deadlines are due, Mondays and Tuesdays, like, I'm in the game. So like, to me, that's like, you know, I'll be, I'll never stop sending that email. I never want to do less business on the weekends. Like, you know, granted, like, I also built up staff, like, invested in my team to cover weekends and nights and all that kind of stuff because like, I treat myself like a business. Like, I'm not just like, a one person show, like, you know, like, it's, you know, when like, a gym advertises, they're open 24-7. The owner's not there all 24 hours of the day, right? Like, you know, I'm not, I don't, I don't act like I'm a salesperson. I act like I'm a business. And like, I want to serve as many people as possible and in, when I say my, my consumers and my partners, but like, there's nothing that sucks about the phone ringing on the weekends. That's when like, the goal is, hey, Jeff, I have a question for Shannon Fagan. Sure. Sean, so I, I, I send out a, I use the reach app to send out to 170 agents every Friday. I put a funny video in there that my loan partner and I do. And that resonates really well. But I have 3000 agents emails too that, so you think, I mean, obviously it's working for you. So you send it out to X amount of agents via email. I never even thought about that because I'm, I'd be reaching those people that, that don't know, like, and trust me yet, right? I'm going to send it out to my 150, 170 that I've done business with. But that's, that's huge. You know, I love the reach app. We also use it as well. So it, like, you know, text messaging is a way that, obviously, people like to communicate. So we use that as well. I just find that it's easier for us to keep track of everything over email. And I just find it, for whatever reason, I just noticed that our agents like are referring more, there, there's something easy about like copying and pasting and like, introing somebody to us over email. That is just like, for me, a little bit easier to follow up. But certainly, I'm not recommending not texting. The reach app is great. We utilize text to communicate with our partners more so than we do with consumers. So like, I use reach almost exclusively for, for realtor communication. So I think that's a great idea. And I might implement that this Friday. We'll see how it goes. Yeah. Would you mind pulling that thread a little bit more about what you're sending out on that email? And you've put a link to your application. But what else are you doing on there? Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit different every single time I try it. You know, like, sometimes we're sending, sometimes we're sending a video that we post it for the week. Sometimes it's part of like a newsletter. Sometimes it's part of stuff that happened. Sometimes it's just a regular, hey, I'm available every weekend. Like, sometimes we just want to keep the message really, really simple. I did a video a couple months ago about why I'm available on the weekends. And like, you know, I kind of just talked about some of the things that that resonate with me and why it's important for my business in terms of me showing up for my clients and my partners when they need it the most. Think about like a client, right? Like, no matter what we do. And sorry, I'm on this rant here right now, but I'm passionate about this. Like, yes, in a perfect world, all our clients would call us six months in advance. Say they were going to buy a house, get pre-approved, understand their numbers, then go out and find a house and buy it. The reality is that no matter how much we preach that and no matter who we work with, like, a lot of times, like, they're just not ready until the right house pops up. Like, they go from being not motivated to motivated immediately. And that's okay, right? Like, to me, that's where like, we can really show up and really increase conversion is like showing up when I feel like people when you show up for them, they need it. So, so like, you know, like, it's always, that's not going to change. Like, you know, like, I do control a lot of how my business comes into me. And I think I've coached my agents on how to refer us, when to refer us and all that kind of stuff. But I want to be prepared for the stuff that I can't prepare for and available for that stuff as well. So, yeah, I mean, that weekend rush is golden. So like, that's when they're deciding, you know, if they can afford it, if how they have to be strategic, who they need to be speaking to, what decisions they need to make. And if you're a part of that conversation, and then a generally, in like my markets that I work in almost all the offer deadlines are either Monday, afternoons or Tuesday mornings, right? And so like, they have to make very, very life life decisions and sometimes in 24 to 48 hours. And if you can be the person that supports them and supports your realtors when they need that kind of stuff, it's very powerful. It shows, and it shows kind of shows to everybody what kind of person you are, what kind of professionally are. Thank you. All right. Before we allow you to leave the stage, Sean, we got one question I wanted to get to then Sue. I'm going to come to you with the same question, and then we'll wrap it up regarding what do consumers need. Sean, we got a question from Amanda. How often do you refer back to your realtor partners? A lot. So, you know, I'm a very good referer of real estate agents. So like, I don't want it to be one sided. Obviously, to me, I, you know, I mean, I'm not a realtor, right? So like, however, you know, anytime a consumer comes to me correct, part of our script is like, you know, who are you working with? And if they don't have somebody, then we're making it a point to refer them to one of our partners in our market. And like, I don't refer out like three agents. Like, I literally find out like who there were like, I find out what price they're in, when they want to buy, you know, what markets they want to be in. And then I have somebody in that market that I refer them to. If I don't have somebody in that market, I go out and find somebody in that market, you know, and, you know, like, I just referred somebody in Fort Worth, Texas, right? I don't have a realtor in Fort Worth, Texas. But like, I was able to track somebody down. That was great. That was referred to my friend and a friend. I got on the phone with the agent and I partnered with the client. So like, but no matter what, if a consumer comes to me direct, I'm putting them in touch with a realtor every single time. And I'm just asking like, and I'm doing it once I've earned their trust. And once I've earned their respect based on like, they can kind of tell who I am, what I bring to the table. And then I'm just offering it up. I never post you about it. But I just tell them how difficult the market is. How important working with a superstar realtor is and how it's going to make a difference in terms of whether they win, whether they should walk away, whether they get great advice, they know all the ins and outs of the markets. Like, I 100% believe that buyer representation is imperative. And so that comes out, you guys can see how passionate I am about it. That comes out to my clients and and like, you know, what, you know what, I don't have to send very many referrals out to partners, to have them to become their person because like most people aren't sending them anything. So like, you know, but I try to send out stuff every single day. Awesome. Here's what we're going to do. Sue, we're going to pivot for the sake of time that we have left and we're going to leave unless you've got something you already shared a lot actually related to consumers. So if you don't mind, we're going to pivot to what you're going to share at the end. As to mind summit. Would that be okay? Yes. Well, it has a lot to do with consumers. Actually, everybody consumers need from us. So I'm talking by presentations called Gen CX and talking about kind of what the consumer of today is really looking for from from us. And so it's it's really touching on a lot of these things. But there's some pretty surprising data that's out there about how the consumer has somewhat changed. And part of what I love that that shot was sharing what I know he's such a master of is, you know, finding that right balance of technology, your team, and where Sean is showing up himself, right? Because that's the beautiful thing that we have with technology is that, you know, I mean, think about what we're doing right here. We're all like here looking at each other's again, digital eye contact. It feels very personal, but we're on a call reporting in from all kinds of places, including Hawaii, right? So I really go deep on that about, you know, kind of the most important things that consumers are looking for. And the kind of unique thing that I'm talking about or that I did with this presentation is I had some secret shopping done. And so I've got some videos of secret shoppers kind of sharing what they found when they went to apply about a mortgage, apply for a mortgage, the experiences that they had. And I've actually got, you know, the names, of course, of any institutions are covered to protect the innocent or the guilty as it may be. But it's actually showing some of the customer journey that people go on in this market. Because, and I think Sean just said this a second ago, I think people think, like, oh, people are getting all this communication, you would be shocked. You would be shocked at the actual journey that consumers right now, when everybody's crying about, I don't have any business, I don't have any business, the kind of janky or non-existent customer journey or prospect journey or referral partner journey, that's actually happening. So I'm going to show you some real examples so that you know exactly what's happening. Like I said, no names are logo and showing, of course. But it's pretty eye-opening. And then I think most importantly talk about how do you solve this in your own business and really ensure that your own customer is the customer of today is getting the kind of journey that they actually need? Yeah, I love that. You guys have some of the best data out there, Shratt Morgan, when it comes to CX and what's really happening. And I remember what previously I talked to Mike and he talked about, like you just mentioned, a lot of loan officers perception is, oh, they left me a review. Good job. And your data actually says otherwise just because you got that review doesn't mean they actually enjoyed the process. Yeah, there's some eye-opening, eye-opening and kind of humorous stuff, but it's also stuff that makes you just go, oh, really? Like, we're not doing any better than that. So it's eye-opening. All right, so that'll be your session of the upcoming Mastermind Summit. By the way, folks, I put a link to the Mastermind Summit in there. If you want to check it out, we'll talk more about that before we wrap up, but it is June 5th through 7th here in Vegas, Resorts World. It's incredibly affordable this year. Vegas is also cheap if you get on it now when it comes to hotels. So do that. Cindy, let's come over to you. What are you going to be talking about for your session at Mastermind Summit? Well, first of all, I hope you guys welcome, because it's like my favorite event of the year. I think I've been a keynote there for 12 years and running. So it's definitely near and dear to my heart. I would love to meet all of you. In fact, I think I met you, Sean at Mastermind Summit many moons ago after you were on stage, Sue introduced us. And Sean, I always got it, you know, like I set my sights to be in the top 100 originators when I was an originator for 30 years. And I never got, you know, I've strove for that number one position, but, you know, I give you a lot of credit, but it is what you've done and what you've created in our industry is really mind blowing. And I know what that takes. And I just, I really do honor your commitment to this industry. Thank you. I appreciate it. So thank you for that. One of the things that I hear constantly is most of my coaching clients have developed a level of success. Many of them, most of them are branch managers. And so they've hit this pinnacle of success. And they cannot break through to the next level. And obviously, given the last couple of years and how challenging it's been and with referral partners, you know, not doing the amount of business and obviously with inventory issues, we have to expand our reach. And people get very locked in their tunnel vision of how to build and grow a business. So I'm going to talk about three bold strategies to drive referral partners to a yes, a yes to work with you to just talk about some things that I actually did and that I'm coaching people on right now real time where they're getting traction. But we're going to talk, people always say, we've got to bring value. But what I hear even from 20 year veterans of the mortgage industry, it's like, how do I actually do that? What is a value proposition? Because, you know, it's like, if you're going to call a realtor, you've got to have a value that you're going to bring. You've got to have a reason for the call and some reason that they need to meet with you. So I'm going to kick it off with, you know, what is your value proposition? And how can you get clear on that and shine a much brighter light on it? So it's a differentiating factor. And I do a lot of work with my clients around that. Secondly, I just let us session. I let a mastermind group here in California at 30 L.O.s fly in from all over the country. We do an annual retreat called mortgage mastermind elite. And we did a whole session on how to overcome the biggest objections. And my dear friend Jeremy for CA was with me for three days at that retreat. And we really answered a lot of questions about how to overcome some of the biggest objections that originators are facing right now. So not only am I going to be contributing suggestions to how to overcome the biggest objections that we're hearing from our clients, but also I have some of my coaching clients that are going to share videos of how they're getting people to the other side to a yes right now, both their clients and their referral partners. So I think and then we're going to give away a guide on those objections, how to overcome them because they're the objections that you're all being faced with right now. And then we're going to talk about how to create a value bomb library, you know, so that you you actually have a library value that is stored and ready to go. So if you meet a new realtor partner, if you meet a new client or you need a follow up strategy with a potential referral partner, you kind of have a way to stay in touch and a way to create value. And whether you're doing that through an email drip campaign, whether you're doing that through a text campaign, whether you're doing that through a video campaign, it all works, but really have teach you how to build a value library for your referral partners. So you can pull from that to build relationship. Awesome. That's going to be a focal point. I want to sit in on that right now. Let's go. All right. Thank you very much for that. Sean will come to you. What are you going to be presenting at the mastermind summit? Yeah, you know, I remember being at mastermind when I was just getting really kind of started and I was having some success, but I felt like I was kind of capped out in terms like what I could do. And then just not really having a network within the industry. And I remember leaving that after three days, like completely invigorated, motivated, inspired. And it's funny here that I'm on here now with Sue and Cindy because when I first started on those things, they were already icons in the business. And I was just like, I could walk around that place and everybody was new to me. So it's pretty cool to not be on stage and presenting. I think what I'm going to cover is ultimately the reason that I've had success is not because I'm the most talented, lone officer in the country. There's a big difference between talent and success. And I think the reason that I've had success is because of the way I think I don't really limit in terms of like, I don't have limiting beliefs in terms of like what can be accomplished in this business. I'm truly grateful for it. So I'm going to be talking about kind of what's inside my brain, like my mindset, like how I think every day, how I act, how I communicate and why I'm successful and kind of how I maintain a positive approach, how I maintain the right perspective, how I utilize it to see the opportunity in this market. You know, I think, you know, if I was to categorize it like, you know, one, I'm going to talk about some of the basic activities that I do on a daily basis because the basics work, you know, they're the basics because like sometimes we get away from them, we should never get away from there. I'm talking about how I can focus on what I can control. You know, everybody wants to talk about interest rates, the economy, inventory, NAR, you name it. None of that stuff we can control. All we can control is our activities and our actions, right? I am going to talk about how to communicate our value proposition because that's really more important than ever, you know, how to be differentiated versus being commoditized. And then I'm going to talk about all the stuff that I do to maintain a positive mindset because it's like really easy to just be like, oh, well, just be positive, right? But like, it takes work, right? Like, you got to like invest in yourself. Yeah, I mean, it takes work. Like, you know, it's not like I'm just like, like, wake up and like ramos and unicorns, right? Like, it's like, but you just got to like, there's a lot of work that's gone into it. And that's the secret to my success. I'm certainly not the most talented blown officer out there, but the reason I'm successful is because I'm committed, consistent, disciplined, every single day. And that starts with my mindset. Love that. I've got written on my whiteboard for the last year, be brilliant in the basics. I mean, the basics work. Okay, cool. So that's fantastic, guys. I really appreciate you guys being here and sharing some of your knowledge and wisdom. Also, sneak peek of what you're going to share at the Mastermind Summit. I'm just curious, is anybody already registered for Mastermind Summit? I don't know if you know, or not. I put a link here in the chat. Obviously that turns my self as well. I'm going to be there talking about, you know, how to unlock endless reel to referrals without chasing how to move from solicitor and vendor to partner and peer. Travis just registered awesome way to go Travis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glad to see you there. By the way, guys, I get nothing for this. If anybody's watching and thinking, I just really want to, you know, this is what I've been doing since for a decade, given back to the industry that, you know, I'm so passionate about as well. So and Mastermind Summit, as Sean said, is one of those ones that can be transformational for you because you're getting in front of some amazing teachers like this. So go to the website mastermindsummit.com. It's incredibly wildly affordable. And look at if you're at a place, I was feeling this the other day, anybody feel this where you, like you said, you don't wake up every day and have, you know, unicorns and rainbows. Some days, it's just freaking dark, right? Some days you're a little tired, you're a little burnt out and you're like, damn, I need a freaking boost. I need to get around some people who are going to help me stay sharp and level up. That's what this event is all about. So be there. And plus that, you know, Vegas is fun. What the hell? If you get enough people come on over my house, we'll have a pool party. All right. And we'll, we'll get together in the definitely network. So you guys, if you're coming, like reach out, send me a DM. I'd love to meet you guys live in person. Yeah. Maybe we can do a special, I don't know, breakout or something, you know, that I'll manage to some degree. But we'd love to see you guys there. It's a great event. MastermindSummit.com Sue, Cindy, Sean, I'm grateful for the time. I know your days are very busy and important. Everybody, please thank our guests for being here today. Follow them. Comment on their social. Let them know what you're talking about today from today's session. I appreciate you guys. Take care. Thanks. Bye. Bye. All right. Well, thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Hey, you got a question for you. Are you struggling to get engagement and referrals from real estate agents and feeling like you're constantly fighting for business in a crowded market? What if I told you there's a way to attract agents to a provide unique value that helps them grow their business and generate referrals on demand, helping you become the dominant loan officer in your local market? Look, I was an originator for over 10 years. I understand the frustration of feeling like you're just another player and a sea of competitors and you're struggling to stand out and get noticed by the agents that you want to attract and engage with. What if I told you this way to flip the script and position yourself as the go to lending your market attracting agents, not chasing, not paying for leads, not co-calling, but actually generating referrals on demand. And the best part, you don't have to ever make a co-calling chase leads again. You don't have to work with weeny head agents if you don't want to. This is what we help originators do at the my agent classes membership. What do you get? You get exclusive access to our private community of like-minded law officers where you can network, share best practices, get ongoing support to grow your business. And you get a turnkey platform that helps you build your personal brand that moves you from solicitor and vendor to partner and peer. You attract agents, you increase conversations, and you increase your referrals. All without chasing, without begging, playing the game, paying for leads, you just by doing what you love to do, which is help other people solve problems. So how do you learn more? Go to mortgagemarketing.pro. What could call with me? And I'll take you through the library. I've done for you agent classes that you can use to just plug and play and follow our proven system of train the trainer. You don't have to be the subject matter expert. Think of yourself like the nightly news reporters just sharing the news. You also get access to our marketing automation platform that will attract, engage, and convert agents to referral partners for you, scripts, checklists, downloads, automated email, SMS text messages, done for you landing pages, and more. You also get our market maker content, which is the social media images that help you promote your class online. And again, every Friday at our mortgage marketing mastermind call, you get access to top L.O. speakers, coaches, connect and collaborate. What's working right now in today's market? They help you grow your business. So you don't have to struggle and try and figure it out all on your own. Don't miss the opportunity to learn more about what's helping so many originers succeed and become the go-to lender in your local market. What could call it with me now? Mortgage Marketing Duff Pro. We'll see you on the other side.