Recession Looming? 3 Power Plays to Fill Your Pipeline Fast

You ever feel like you're working hard doing all the right things, you know, posting on social, showing up to events, calling agents, but your business still isn't where you want it to be? Well, you're not alone. The problem may not be your hustle, it might be your system. Imagine if instead of chasing leads, you built a business where opportunity came to you consistently and predictably. You're listening to the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast, where we help mortgage professionals get more leads, close more loans, and make more money. My name is Jeff Zimfer and I'm your host and Mortgage Marketing Coach. Today on the show, we're asking the question, what does it really take to build a sustainable mortgage business in 2025? One that thrives no matter. What the market throws at you? And to help us dig into that, we're joined today by John Donnelly, strategic sales leader with Service First Mortgage. He manages the team of 75 loan officers and John is someone who's built a culture of execution, not excuses. So in this episode, you're going to learn three specific things. Number one, the overlooked way to convert real estate classes into referral partners and why the follow-up is where the real money is. Number two, we're going to unpack John's strategy for how commenting on other people's social posts can drive more business than creating your own posts. And number three, the simple Monday morning test you can use to instantly improve your online brand and attract better relationships. Plus, we'll explore how John uses voice to AI workflows while walking, yes, literally, walking his dog to build better content and save hours every single week. So if you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start building a pipeline that sticks, stay tuned for this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio. John Donnelly, welcome to the show. That'd be to be here. It's awesome. Thank you. So if we're recording this Monday, March 31st, there is another noteworthy news happening in our industry. That is the acquisition of Rocket, acquiring Mr. Cooper and their entire servicing portfolio for a few bucks. That's right. A few bucks is right. They're going all in. It looks like all kinds of stuff happening there. So I'm curious, somebody in your chair, strategic sales leader, right? How many sales individuals do you oversee? My team is about 75 LOs. 75 LOs. So when this happens, and then previously, there was a few weeks back rockets, acquisition of Red Finn, do you get a lot of noise from the streets? Does stuff bubble up? And I'm curious, that's what I was thinking about is like, do people then look to you to give them context or meaning around this? I think yes. And I mean, I'm a leader at the company. So they're going to kind of key off of my energy. Is it good? Is it bad? What should I think about it? Because people are trying to form their opinion. I don't think we know exactly what to think of it a little bit yet. It's pretty interesting. So how do you position yourself to win if you're going to go up against this behemoth? Is what I'm immediately thinking about? Yeah. So what I wonder is because I put myself in those shoes as a loan officer and I think about, you know, it's all about what do you pay attention to and what you can control? Yeah. And it makes me really empathetic and then sometimes curious how much time how much time lost loan officers might spend mentally, cognitively, like spinning through these cycles. My go to and I believe this is 90% of the things that you worry about don't come to pass. And so you could spend time and energy on it and let it grow but it's a waste of time. What can you control? You can control what you talk to. You control the number of calls you make. You got to focus on the things you can control. If they come out and have the greatest product and the lowest rates and they're smoking everybody, I mean, you got to pay attention but we're going to see what happens here. I think you, I think that if you do your business right, there's plenty of business for all of us, even those big guys to succeed. I want to I want to shadow you through an average day or week. We're entering into a new quarter of this year. What is the strategy game plan roadmap you're laying out for yourselves people? Yeah, that's great. The one thing that I'm talking to, we're a referral based mortgage company. And so our business is coming from, you know, realtor partners, builder partners, past customers, very traditional. There was a feeling in the last year that those relationships with realtors, they're not very meaningful anymore. If you look at numbers, they're not controlling transactions. They're not real oil to any particular lender. Maybe because they don't have enough business and they, they don't want to try to steer. I'm not really steer, I guess, but try to direct to their partners. I don't know all the reasons, but what I'm finding, I've been out teaching a lot of classes. I've been boots on the ground with a lot of realtor groups. There are, it's a viable source of business. Referral partners are still a great source of business. There's some of them that are really out hustling and they actually will give you referrals. You got to win them. Oh, it's up to you to win those deals. So business is still being done by realtors, even when, you know, the news headlines would lead you to believe that it's not. Yeah. I know you look up and you think that buyers agents are struggling and there's not business to be had, but I'm telling you a lot of our business has come from our referral partners. And so don't lose sight of that. Don't go out and chase other lines of business, especially if that's what you know and you're good at. So that's one thing I've noticed, you know, is people are having success. What are some of the things you guys do to build a fence? Well, I guess there's multiple things, right? A, build a fence around the existing referral partners you have, but then there's also reach new potential over for all partners. What are the, okay, we're going in the battle, man. I got my friggin, my side or my gun. I got my boots. John's at the front. He's leading us. What are we tactically doing? Yeah, tactically. I mean, we're having one-on-one conversations on how to refer each other and how our teams work so that when I get a referral as a loan officer, I know how to sell you back so that customer stays sticky between the two of us because we both have potential to lose. The agent can still lose the deal as much as we can nowadays. So we really have to work as a team, you know, if you look at it that way, we're going out trying to expand our network by teaching classes. We've built lead-gen classes, mortgage-based classes. I personally do LinkedIn classes because that's my little lane I live in a lot and trying to show them how we can give them benefit and grow their business. Their business growth, ours growth is real obvious. Okay, so that makes me curious for anybody who's listened to me for some time. They may know that a very huge advocate of doing agent classes. We have a whole platform that helps people do that. Can you give me any use cases, examples, case studies of leading with classes? I apologize if this sounds self-serving, but look, if it works, let's share it. So any specifics you want to share around how that's helped people in the field? Oh, yeah, for sure. How does having a class? I mean, for me, I go out and offer classes to my loan officers. So I'll say let's go out and put together classes. On my class, particularly I've been teaching here lately is LinkedIn. So for sales, basic 101, you have to make a lot of calls to get these agents into the class. You get those opportunities. And then, obviously, if you can teach, I would encourage all my team to be the instructor. When I teach the class, everybody comes to me. I'm the one that gets the messages. I'm the one that builds the rapport. But if I can get them to teach the class, they're the expert. And then the money's in the follow-up. After that, then that's where you really need leads. Well, take me deeper. What does follow-up look like for you? Let's say you had a magic wand and you could get this, you could get any loan officer to do the John Donnelly approved version of follow-up. What does that look like? Yeah. So what it looks like for me is, at the end of my class, I've got a landing page with the QR code. You've got the presentation. You've got your take away. And you've got a chance for people. They enjoy the class, the register. And then when they do that, they're getting emails, text messages as part of a drip. And then it's on you as the loan officer to call and go deeper in that connection. So are you making a phone call as a minimum best practice follow-up? Yeah, minimum. You've got to have a conversation. Come on. John, you'd be surprised. I don't know. Maybe you wouldn't because you felt that was not your whole life. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. People maybe try once and they don't ever try again for sure. No numbers. But yeah, if you don't have that conversation, you're not going to get any way. Okay, so if you don't mind, I'm going to go down this, I'm going to continue on this thread for a moment. Is that okay? Let's go. Because I think it's really instructional for listeners because there's a lot of loan officers who've heard, look at classes isn't new per se. People have hit or miss, tried it, have asked what not. But I really want to illustrate, you'd be surprised how many conversations I've been having about this fundamental activity. So that's why I'm talking about it right now for anybody who's listening and wondering, what were the initial hurdles? Were there any that you had to personally overcome? How long have you been teaching classes? Let me ask that. I don't know. Maybe five, six years. When you first thought of that, was that daunting? Or you're like, yeah, shit, no problem. Let's go. Actually, one of my loan officers brought to me is kind of a real quick story. We had an office back when we went in office. We were in Arlington, Texas. She was, hey, come here. And I was like, what? She brought me next door in an office. We didn't have. She was, if we blow through this wall, then our office will connect to this training room. And we're trying to figure out how to grow our business here. She was, I could have a class in that training room, you know, three weeks out of the month and grow our business. So we said, okay, let's put a plan around that. And that began teaching and instructing for me for her. And the idea was, for her, this was the vision we casted. She wants every realtor in Arlington and Mansfield to know her name. So by having invite to all these classes that is going on, you know, she's going to brand herself. So when a contract comes in, she can call the listing agent and say, who she is, and what she's doing. And they'll know her name and it'll help her soften the beaches. That was kind of the idea. The classes she taught as many as she could. We got title companies, teaching classes, you know, all the things that you do to different types of classes. We had underwriters teach classes. We had hobby lobby teacher class on how to make closing gifts. We got pretty creative on on the different types of classes. I believe classes work when you teach especially, like if you're the instructor, that's where that's where it's at. And she's still with you. She's still with me. She's, uh, she's kind of semi-retired. Just taking it's coming after. It's good coming after. So yeah. But that built her book of business and helped you guys collectively. She made President's Club in the next couple of years and was the affiliate member for Arlington Board of Realtors the following year because of how much it worked. So it definitely can work. Yeah. It works if you work it like anything, right? Yeah. For sure. For sure. We had somebody behind her calling and doing the invites, calling and following and setting appointments. We're going to see our M-sending messages, you know, sharing that information with her partners. So we took it to the right level that it needed to to really be successful. You mean you used it as a system? Yeah. How about that? How about that? Wow. Unbelievable. Right? It's amazing. You know, I always go back to one of my favorite books is The E-Mith by Michael Gerber, that series. Yep. You probably know of it. Your book guy. Yep. Yep. And one of the one of my takeaways from that book is every successful business has a process for lead attraction, lead engagement and lead conversion. A process, not a wing it, not a once in a while, not a shoot. I got to make those calls and I blow it off because something else came up. No, a repeatable, difficult system that will scale. Sounds like that's what you guys applaud. Exactly. I think of the atomic habit books too. You don't rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems. Absolutely. So same idea, right? If you don't have a system, you're never going to get there. Okay. So by the way, everybody listening right now, huge, huge takeaway. Okay. You just heard the system. So stop procrastinating, get after it. I often ask John, I ask these questions of loan officers. Do you need more agents or better quality agents? The answer is both, right? And so therefore, how do you get them? And you just laid out a very duplicable system for people to do that. Okay. I want to transition now into I'm thinking about loan officers listening always. Okay. They're like, Jeff, thanks. Got it. Agent classes. What else? What else? John, you got this audience. You know, people, let's just face it kind of overall volume is down, right? Affordable like all the stuff, all the noise we know. And yet people are still out there doing deals. What do you see besides from getting in front of realtors at scale? What other activities, you know, would you be coaching people on right now? Showing up to any event you can get in front of. I believe whether it's an open house, a realtor event, whether it's a chamber. I don't really care what event it is. But when you show up, you got to dress up. You got to be professional. You got to do sales pitch. You got to practice in that momentum. It gives you energy and you just get better. The people that are having success right now, I feel like are out doing things. They're counters full. They're driving around and they're busy, but they're not all doing the same things. You know, they're doing different things. I get a lead today from my fantasy football league. So, you know, you just don't know where things are going to come from, but you have to engage with people you can't sit around and wait and hope. Yes, you have to be active. Hey, are you tired of co-calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere? With my agent classes, you don't have to chase agents anymore. We hand you a done-for-you system of ready-to-teach presentations, plug-and-play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite so you can double your agent referrals in 90 days or less. Plus, you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members. Been part of my agent classes for a little over a year and totally changed my business. I grew at least 25% and that was during a pretty down market and have only grown every single month that I've kept doing it. Community is great, jump to the Friday calls. It's awesome. Have fun with it. Teach as many classes as you can. Just do more. Do better. Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting agent referrals on demand? Book a call at mortgagedmarketing.pro or hit the link in the show notes now back to our show. Where do you rank then, you know, social media engagement video? Like you're obviously pretty strong on LinkedIn, but what coaching do you have around that? I think that you got to post the leads a couple of times a week around what you're doing, but the money is in the commenting and the messaging. I think that's the key to the whole thing and it feels good to make a post and have people like it, but if you don't get any leads, what's the point of it all? I mean, that's kind of where I'm going at with my team is like, is a direct message, is as good as a phone call nowadays in my opinion, comments build our on other people's platforms, bring awareness to you just like your own post do. And so engaging on the platforms is more important for most of my all those than it is posting and putting out amazing content. So you're on LinkedIn. I want to talk a little bit about why I say you're on LinkedIn. That's where a lot of your focus is. And I think that perhaps could be because of who you are, your position as an executive sales leadership, things like that. I'm wondering though, if you, you know, as loan officers evaluate their time and presence on social, let's just face it, it takes time. You need to get good at certain skills, right? In terms of, like you said, commenting, being present, let alone content producing and things like that. Do you see loan officers getting deluded trying to be too many places at once or what advice do you have around choosing a social platform? I think I think you should, yeah, I think you can get deluded. I think also if there's one that you love leaning hard to that. And so I mean, I've had some, I had one yellow build is business off LinkedIn targeting realtors. And you're like, how does that happen? Well, you got to have a strategy around it. Personally, I can reach out to most realtors. I can Google their name and see that their LinkedIn profiles on their top five search results. And so I can call them up and say, okay, you know, Microsoft owns LinkedIn. It's it's always up there in those top few. I can call that realtor and say, you don't have a banner. Your last referral was 2011. If I'm a person who got a couple of realtors names and I'm thinking about calling you to be my realtor and I use LinkedIn, I'm not sure you're in the business today. Let me show you how I can in 30 minutes update your profile to attract somebody to you instead of defer him away. I'm not saying you have to be a LinkedIn guru that you got to post all the time and have all these connections, but at least put your best foot forward. You know, and so that one conversation can really take a relationship to the next level just by giving a little bit of value, you know, just that one thing. Yeah, like that. So I call that doing a digital audit. That's that's an easy win. And it works on other places besides LinkedIn. So I love the fact that you said, John, like wherever you're hanging out the most, wherever you're all in on social, like make that the one. Just because you heard John talk about this one LinkedIn idea and you're like, you got a strong presence on Instagram, doesn't mean you should all automatically pivot me. Let me go do them. No, you can use that exact same principle identify agent general market who are under optimized with their profiles, Instagram, Google, business, whatever and offer tips, suggestions, et cetera. But, John, how do they know? How do they get educated on what to recommend? How do they on what's a recommend? Yeah, the loan office or how do I know if you're LinkedIn banner is weak or your Instagram profiles missing things? Yeah, they have to do it themselves, right? Are you saying they have to learn the modern? I learned it. That's right. Come to me. I'll show you. I'll teach the class. At least on that, I'm not a guru in all the platforms because I do what I'm telling you. I lean into the ones that are the best for me. But yeah, self leadership proceeds team leadership always. And if you have to always be learning, you have to be reading, you have to develop your skills. And if you feel your cup up, it'll pour over to other people. I mean, that's just how it is. Well, and we're going to put we're going to link up your LinkedIn profile in the show knows for people who can go follow you. But if you look at your headline, like, here's an obvious place to start, I know you know this, helping mortgage professionals break through ceilings and build thriving careers. Well, it's pretty obvious what your called action is, what your offer is, right? To capture somebody's attention. Yeah, the point of that is I call it the Monday morning question. Whoever your target is that you're going after on your LinkedIn, they have a problem on Monday morning. Well, what what are you trying to solve? What is it? How can you solve that problem? Because then you're connected with the people that you're targeting, right? So if you wanted to, you know, attract realtors, you know, to call you, how can you how can you change your headline up to speak to realtors to help, you know, help them know that you can be their coach and guru and partner. Obviously, mine's targeted to other people in my industry, loan officers, branch managers, you know, it's pretty clear. There's hopefully they, you know, I'm answering the Monday morning question. If they're up there on a Monday morning, they don't know where to take their business and they run across me. Maybe that's the sign they needed. Absolutely. Yeah, whatever platform that is true, by the way, in terms of headlines and examples of your bio. Now you've got at 20,000 followers on LinkedIn. Man, congratulations. Thank you. I know that just magically showed up overnight. You didn't have to do much to get that, right? Oh, yeah. I've been working at it since 2018. So on purpose. How now this is again, I'm just going to focus on LinkedIn because this is John's profile. So if you're listening, again, put this in the context of your social platform profile of choice. How has building a presence and a brand awareness on LinkedIn, specifically for you? How has that impacted your business and your goals? Man, it's interesting because for a long time, I didn't know that people were seeing me the way they were. And then I'll go to an event like a TNBA, Texamori's Bankers, and five people will tell me about posts that I've made and stories about things I've talked about, but nobody commented, nobody liked. That really early on that gave me a lot of energy. It's like, okay, something's happening here, but I don't know how to gauge the success of it exactly. And then I'll interview people, especially in operations, and they'll pull up my LinkedIn profile and tell me about it. So it's a tool that it softens the beaches for me. It doesn't necessarily bring a whole lot of leads in and make your phone ring off the hook or anything like that, but it softens the beaches for me when I reach out to people and they look at my profile and they feel like, okay, you know, I see who this guy is, and I can tell what he's about. So that's what it is for me. I like that term you've used it three times now, softened the beaches. Yeah, I think we're all trying to, you know, in sales, trying to make it a little bit easier on ourselves and try to get some influence where people recognize us, so it just makes it easier. Well, I mean, a warm call is better than a cold call, right? Right. All day long. All right, so where are you ranking the different types of content you post? I'm looking at your feed here. You've got a fair amount of mix of video and text. Tell us how you decide what your content strategy is. Yeah, I look at my best days for content and the most interaction on LinkedIn is probably Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays. So I really geared my best stuff that's really industry related, you know, tips for other people in the industry. I'll put them into those days most of the time. Mondays, not as strong, Fridays, not as strong. And so my goal is to post Monday through Friday, sometimes on the weekends. And, you know, Fridays are dead to me. They're not a lot happening. I do personal posts on Fridays. You know, all that stuff just hangs out there in social. So if I throw up a picture of me, my family doing something or at the, at a game or whatever, that's out there. People can connect with it, but it's not my best stuff. So I like mixing in a video a week. Sometimes I'll do a video every day. It just depends on how I feel. I also like to sometimes I'll just just do text only. You know, you get a selfie picture in there. If you don't know what to post, just document something that's going on your day. It's not that hard to come up with some things to talk about on your LinkedIn. But I mean, I'm just about to launch a newsletter, just a long form content that I'm working on. I don't know. I just like mixing it up. It's about, I post around a couple of things. My core values, who I am as a leader, what it's like to look at my work in my company. Because that's the target audience that I'm aiming at. So, right. I learned about me. Which by the way, that right there is a key point we could spend 15 minutes talking about is your target audience. You've got to be specific in your head of like who your, your ICP, your ideal client profile, whatever, right on who your content is for. Because to your point and I go to look at your LinkedIn content, it's clearly for that person you're trying to reach versus a loan officer listening perhaps. Who is their content for? Well, maybe it's for a buyer. Maybe it's for a financial advisor. Maybe it's for a realtor. I don't know. And you can kind of cross three of those with your kind of content. How do you think? Yeah, I think on that, I mean, in your content, in your post, or ever call out that audience first, too. I mean, I try to do that specifically. If I'm posting the realtor's because I'm teaching a class, I'm going to say, hey, realtor's, you know, I'm going to call you out because I want your attention or hey, loan officers, you know, I'm going to call that out first to try to narrow the focus of who's going to read that post. So I think that matters. Yeah, 100%. Do you actually have a content like schedule or calendar or how do you actually, you know, get you do? Yeah. So I started, I started using a tool called air table. It's just like a Google docs, you know, real simple. And I started putting together a history of all of my posts that I was making. And I didn't know where I was going with it. I just started making posts. This was a few years ago. And then over time, I had this huge database that I could search around different topics realizing that, you know, you talk about a lot of the same stuff over time. And you decide to rework it and make it sound fresh and new. And so I just every time I make a post, I put it in, I put the date and the image and a link to it. And I have that history. It was pretty cool because it's like you're writing a book, you know, if you want to look back on it. But also anytime I have an idea, I've probably already posted about it or written something so I can search it and see what I've done before and then use that going forward. And then back to my same ideas, you know, I'm generally posting, you know, some kind of a tip during the week. I'm part of my personal stuff on Friday. You know, I just kind of have my themes that I'm working off of, depending on what's going on. I share some people's content, you know, also it's still real critical that you got to comment and post on other people's stuff. I just think that's been one of the things that's really helped me elevate. How do I get a lot of connections is because I engage with other people, especially people with a big platform. And they see me and the next thing, you know, I'm getting more connections because they see me engaging with those other people. It's such a great idea to jump on there for a second is, you know, it's like the largest networking party on the planet and it never closes. Are you using GPT or any other AI and helping you with content? Yeah, I am. I think it's, I love it. I think it's great. It's 90% good a lot of times, but you better pay attention to what it's producing. You know, and so I've kind of taught mine to write a format like my post the way I like it with a hook and bullet points, you know, talking seventh grade level because it's got to be quick and easy, you know, all that type of stuff. So it kind of knows me and then I'm a big, I go and walk all the times kind of my thing. And so I'll sit there and I'll have some ideas and I'll just talk into it and say, here's what I'm thinking. And I'll turn that into a post. Sometimes it's pretty good. Sometimes not so good, but you don't just blindly trust that stuff. I mean, look at it and see, but it definitely what I like is that it learns me and it kind of knows my voice and it can, it can pull other aspects of other posts into it. And so I'm leaning into it and learning. When you say you walk and talk, are you tell me more about that? Are you actually using the GPT phone app and speaking or what we're doing? Exactly. Exactly. I taught it, I know this is like kind of funny, like I'm telling myself, but I taught it our entire HR review system and we wrote, we had to do reviews recently for our managers. And so I literally went on about a two hour walk and I just told it based on the format I put in. Here's all the things I think about this person. For me, that's way easier because I'm a verb, I can verbalize a lot better than I can write. And then I said, just professionally put it into the format. I need, bam, it was just done. Samey storm works time. Yeah, you know what's interesting. I was watching a video of somebody who runs a social media marketing agency and she was talking about how she uses GPT on behalf of her customers. And she said that she gets better results by actually talking to chat GPT because it is easier for it to understand context because it can hear how you talk and the different nuances and then you know how you talk is different than you write. And so writing is kind of a little bit more finite and tighter versus the audio is actually, you've got that kind of wider lane to go down. Yeah. So last night I went on a walk and I just mentioned I'm working on newsletter. I've never done a newsletter in LinkedIn. I feel like I talk about it, but I should do it myself, you know, I'm going to teach classes. And so I had a plan of what I kind of wanted it to be like. So I told it act as my social media coach. Here's what I'm thinking. I want to write a newsletter, but I want you to ask me a minimum of 10 questions as an interview and help me develop my name, how it's going to look, the format. I want to write a one sheet for my assistant to help me understand how to do this. And it kept, I had a conversation for 45 minutes with chat GBT. And it kept asking me questions and help me come up with a name and to help me build what I think was better than I would have come up with in a 45 minute window. Like it's really fast. So do you have, I know, do you use in the audio where it talks back? Yes. Yeah. Because that's like you can turn that on or off. Some people just like it reads your voice and types it out, but I'm talking about the actual dialogue like it's your version of her. Exactly. I haven't named it. I know some people have, but I haven't named her or him, but there's like a friend, you know, it is coming that way. And I think people are going to find that they actually enjoy the conversations at some point more than they think about. Side note, I named mine Carmen. Okay. And my wife is not a fan of the female voice Carmen that I have conversations with. I don't have a name, but it's coming. I know it's not far. I know in Google, Google maps, there, there's a voice that I have and I call him homie. Because I was like, Hey, homie, thanks. You know, I always joke about that. But you know, I'm sure it's coming. That's awesome. Yeah. By the way, guys, again, listeners, that's another takeaway. If you haven't used the audio version, download chat GBT to your mobile phone, the actual real chat GBT app, not some of those third party lookalikes that are out there because you can use the free version and it'll change. It'll take it to the next level. Your usage and output on which at GBT it'll be easier. Okay. We got it like two minutes left. We're in a sales meeting, John. We just wrapped up Q1. You got some people who, you know, are on track. You got some people who aren't. Let's just say people are wondering, how do I build Q2 pipeline? Let's just let's take that. I don't want to get too far ahead of our skis here. Q2 pipeline, not to be redundant, but it's okay. If you can go back, you want to go back to the fundamentals of what we said doesn't matter. But what do you coach in our table right here sitting around the round table? Okay, guys, go hit the streets. This is what you do. Yeah. This is what you do. First thing is you got to know who you're targeting. I mean, sounds really basic. But for us, if we're going to target realtor partners, I want to qualify a list and make sure they're actually doing business before I go put a lot of effort into them because there's a lot of them that aren't, you know, we hear all those stats. If you're going to lean into builders, we do a lot of builder business too. We have a lot of relationships that you can kind of work and utilize. Get strategic on which ones you're going to go after and why you're going to why you're going to go after the certain builder you're targeting. But then go back to what we just said. What is the plan to make the calls and then follow up with the people because the money is made in those calls and that follow up, not even in the event itself. I don't know that many people, you know, it's just a place for you to showcase yourself and attract people to you. But until you call somebody afterwards, you're not going to get a lead. You're not going to grow your business. So that's the basics. There you go, man. Reconnocence, getting the field, right? Make, get to turn rocks over and make contact. Let people know you exist. That's awesome. Okay. So for people who want to connect with John, I'm going to assume linking you up on the link in as a place to go. That's the place to be. Yes, sir. So you just got to go to LinkedIn and search. The John Donnelly is your actual profile handle. I guess is that what you call it? Profile. Yeah. John, this has been a wonderful education on how to get back to the basics, you know, and execute on what's actually working. Yes, sir. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. I love your show. Yeah. And by the way, if anybody is interested in learning more about your organization, right? I suggest you to check out what John's doing there as well, because you guys have quite the culture at service first. It's all about culture and leadership. So if you are considering a change, I would encourage you to check out John and service first, because they clearly have a culture of leadership and leading from the front. So just wanted to say that. That was unsolicited, John. You bet listeners, you know what to do. Follow John, link in the show notes. Let them know you heard this podcast episode. Let him know on a comment DM him in LinkedIn at a minimum or comment on his content. Let him know what your one big takeaway was from today. We appreciate you guys tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes. You're proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to co-call again instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want to send you business with done for your presentations, marketing automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit mortgagemarketing.pro or check the link in the show notes and why you're there. Don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage pros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.