The No B.S. Guide to Unlocking Trust With Clients and Partners

In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with real estate agents is essential for success. However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge. With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections. Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Coghill is a must-read. Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals. And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business. To get your hands on this resource, head over to locastudy.com and download your free copy of the case study today. You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too. Don't miss out. Go check it out right now. Visit locastudy.com and download your free copy today. Hey, what's up, it's Jeff, this is Jeff, the host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. This is the place where we help loan officers like you get more agent referrals so you can become the go-to lender in your local market. How do we do that? We get you in front of agents at scale, leading with education, helping you implement a proven system for closing more loans without having a cold-called chase or put up with negative we need head agents or ever copay for leads. We do that through the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership and here's my success story of the way coming at you hot from Kevin Hollerman, Kevin, what's up. So we've been leading with teaching chat GPT as a class to real estate agents across the country and chat GPT is hot right now and so it's getting a lot of attention and we're getting engagement in front of agents. Kevin had 74 agents registered for his chat GPT class, 36 of them showed up. He did this class over Zoom and he called all of them afterwards and at last time I talked to Kevin within about 24 hours or less of that call. He had two in-person meetings scheduled right out of the gate. But many of the calls he said actually wound up being conversations about business, about partnering, about being coming the lender of choice, if not at a minimum, the second opinion letter. So guys, the name of the game now is Get in front of real estate agents, grab market share, get in front of the right agents to build your pipeline of relationships that leads to referrals for the spring and summer market which is definitely coming as you know. So if you want to learn more about how Kevin and our other members are doing this, you go over to mortgagemarketing.pro, go check it out. There's a brief video from me there. There's a bunch of other success stories and if you want to schedule a call, that's where you do it. Grab a time on my calendar, we'll chat, we'll get acquainted, we'll unpack your business, we'll see if we are fit for each other mortgage marketing.pro. Okay, my special guest this week has been on my hit list for some time. I'm talking to Shivani Peterson. She is a superstar mortgage originator out of the Reno, Nevada area and she is doing some amazing things with creating positive impact in people's lives in a lot of different ways and taking what I think is a unique approach to conversations, authentic conversations if you will with both her clients and referral partners. And I want you to go check out her links in the show notes, Instagram. This is where she gets most of her business, by the way, and she's the top 1% mortgage originator, top producer at her company, right? Always in the number 1 position or number 2 at in a rare instance, this other person creeps up with a line and takes the number 2 position, but she's number 1. In my heart and will be a number 1 in your heart when you get a chance to get a sense of who she is through this fantastic interview. So Shivani is going to unpack with unpack the concepts of authority and being real and authentic and what that means for you and then building a community and getting clear and identifying who your ideal client is, what you've often referred to as your customer avatar, right? She'll unpack who her customer avatar is and some surprises that she realized about that after some time. She'll walk us through some of the talk tracks and strategies she uses with both consumers and referral partners to create a very successful, high profit business. That's just doing very, very well. So I hope you enjoyed this podcast episode. I know I did and I learned a lot and I feel like I'm a little bit better of a person through this conversation. So if you like this episode, you know what to do, leave us a review, even better, share it with somebody or reach out to Shivani on Instagram and let her know that you heard the interview on this podcast and that you just want to thank her for that. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show, Shivani, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm very excited. I am too because I should have had you here sooner. What took you so long to get here? What took you so long to find me? It's not like you're hard to find, right? I apparently am because this is like a reoccurring theme to the start of many podcasts and interview is just in general. Seriously? Yeah, I mean, watch anything with like Dave Savage and he's like, I don't know how I didn't know about you. Well, looking, you come from a family, obviously, of two brothers who all three of you have a very strong presence in the mortgage space. So eventually, we're going to get to you all. But that must be, I'm curious, like, what are you with the dinner table the night out? You know what I mean? Like, what do you got? You guys talking shop or what's going on? It's funny because like our spouses would get really irritated. My mom gets really mad when the three of us are together, like Thanksgiving or Christmas because we're all always like talking about work. And now, like, work's gotten so, like, vast. It's not just loans. It's like, there's all the other things that each of us are launching separately. Like we all have our own, like, online brands and communities that we're growing. So we're always like talking about that stuff, too. But then like on the other side of the coin, like people at the office will say, like, have you gotten in touch with Neil about that? Yeah. And I'll be like, no, I've talked to him like every day, but it's been about my dad or kids or something else. And then sometimes it's like the other way around. We don't talk about work because we have other things to talk about. And this makes me curious, in terms of the, you guys doing your own independent things, was there any like, you know, talking amongst yourselves about that? Or did you just kind of, each of you find your own paths? No, we talk about everything for sure because like for me, Neil has been telling me to launch a course for like the last three years. It's just that I didn't want to do it until I was super inspired of something and like the platform for it in the basis. So when I did it, I wasn't talking to him that much about doing it, but when people would ask, he'd be like, well, yeah, I've been telling her to do that forever. That's awesome. Well, I'm, again, I'm plotting you kudos to do you doing that. What brings you here today to this right now is I attended the Modern Mortgage Summit in Vegas at which you were one of the speakers and you did a great job, by the way, kicked ass up on stage. I know it's not easy, especially when you got a camera and all these people watching virtually, right? All this stuff in your head. Like, how do you figure that out? But I loved what you had to say there. So that's why I wanted to talk about in a moment before we do for those who may need to know who Shafani is. Why don't you give him the brief backup, back, rounder. There we go. So I'm a loan officer. I've been in mortgage lending for about 10 years and then a few years ago, I got on the map with a lot of people because I started doing more content. I started creating content on Instagram and YouTube and Facebook. And I just try, I think like, you know, the conversation, the more open we make the conversation about anything, the better it gets. And so I've been approaching my content with this like unfiltered approach to money. Like let's just talk about money. I mean, the example I give a lot is that being a mom, being a parent in general, got a lot better for our generation than our parents because now everyone talks about how hard it is. Like our, our moms had to just like do it on their own. There wasn't even like a platform for information to be easily shared, but also like women didn't talk back then about if parenting was harder, what their struggles were with their husband or trying to find balance at home. And now everybody talks about everything and it's gotten so much better. Like it's so much easier to be a parent and there's tools that you can access and people are constantly striving together to be better at it. So why can't we do that with money? Like why can't we do that with mortgages in real estate and trying to like achieve financial freedom? So I started putting out content to just like speak to that in a really unprofessional way. I mean, you could honestly say. So I guess that's how I got on the radar and it really did amazing things for my business too. Well, it reminds me of, you know, and you mentioned this on your talk is I wrote that down by the way, you can see here. I'm not lying. The camera. Maybe it shows it. There we go. How cool is it to be in like one of those books? I know, right? But I think that's what's refreshing about you because money, I was thinking, oh, it's the final taboo. Like, you know, we can't talk about money, right? But I do love the fact that you are bringing that to the surface and talking about that because why not, right? Yeah, why not? Why not share what's really working? Yeah. You had a post the other day. I think it was an Instagram reel that you were kind of coming out of from the angle of you, you wanted to be there for people that they could trust in you and have confidence in you to, you know, you didn't want to be the person who was going to judge the, you know, the multiple trips to DoorDash or whatever the heck it is, right? Look at their bank statements and go, oh, wow, look at you, right, hitting a total wine and more. The truth is that like we don't have time or the brain space to judge people like that because there's way too many mortgage guidelines, like there's way too many other rules that I'm checking and making sure aren't being broken to even have the bandwidth to see how many times you go to Starbucks. Right, right. And I thought that was really cool because no one has at least that I've seen, no one's mentioned that thought that is going through our minds. Now, I can, I will say this is true for me because I recently were looking at buying a second home and I, you know, did this whole obviously prequel thing. And that's the thing that hit me. I'm like, shit, look at all the DoorDash hits we got for you though because that's like so reflective. You can think about like, are you okay with that number? No, I'm not. It needs to be. But aside from that, what you talked about resonated, I think. I don't hear anybody else bringing, like bringing that transparency to, I was like, look it. Yes, we get to see behind the curtain, the kimono, whatever. And hey, there's no judgment here, you know, and I think even like when I talked to my friends about money or when I talked to my friends probably about anything or even not my friends, the acquaintances that I cross in the street, I'm just like that. I'm just unfiltered. I just say things. And then, you know, we'd go out to dinner the first few years that I was in this industry and someone would ask me like a kind of vague question about what they should do with their student loans. And I'd be like, well, how much is in your bank account and what are you putting your money towards right now? And what are you earning? And my husband would be like kicking me into the table like, you can't ask those, but I'm like, but they asked me something, I'll have all the information I need to answer the question. True. True. So it's been like, why does there have, why can't we just talk about this stuff? Like, we can help each other. And I think in today's day and age, right, we want that because you said, the other thing you said at your, at the conference during your session was, and you've stressed this, you better be real, right? Truthful and authentic. Well, how many people are putting out content and they're like, it's not working. I'm like, well, are you being real in your content? Because it will work if you're being real. And by being real, you may be real to you and you're unique. Yes. Like, you can't, whoever's listening to this, if you were not an unfiltered person, then don't use my strategy. Figure out yours. It makes me just wonder, you must have been like this for probably most of your life. I'm guessing. I have two older brothers, like, I have to be kind of aggressive to be heard, right? And here's another example of that. And we're going to put links to all your stuff in the show notes, Instagram, but one of the things I did was opt into your newsletter, just because that's what I do. But I love the fact that what you say is, no spam or sales bullshit will ever hit your inbox. Like that's, that's transparent, you know, it's refreshing too, because what do people think? I'm about to opt in. I'm going to get sold a bunch of crap, right? No. Yeah. I did do clickbait this last newsletter that with the Trump thing. Oh, really? Which, what did you use? I just said, how will the Trump indictment affect real estate? Oh, that was the subject line and the headline and then the video had nothing to do with that. And I said it right away. I said, I just wanted you to click the link because I actually don't know if it's going to affect real estate at all. It's your honest, but that is what we see a lot of people on YouTube doing. Don't we? Yes. All those friggin leading headlines, you know, why the market's crashing and then the videos about why the market's not even crashing. I feel like fair enough, we've got to get in, change the narrative here, like everyone needs to stop freaking out about the market crashing and pay attention to some other things that are equally concerning, but not the market crash. Yeah. Any examples of those? Well, interest rates, right? Like, they've been this huge variable wild card all year long. And I think they're going to continue to be following the bank collapses. I think the great news is that we're probably away from 7% for the rest of the year. Like, is there going to be another black swan event this year? Typically, we say there's one like every couple of years. Now, I don't know, there might be one a quarter. So interest rates are much more of a concern than home prices tanking, but everyone wants to talk about home prices, tanking and not think about interest rates, which are really the biggest variable driving the housing market and the biggest risk in the housing market this year. So this makes me curious, what do you, so you're up in the Reno area? You've been in this business this 10 years, by the way, I forgot to ask, give us a sense if you could last year's production, if that's a good metric, you want to talk about units and volume. I know you have that handy, right? I hate talking about that because it's like, oh, well, I know everybody's like, well, should we even listen to you? Are you even credible? Why? That's not why. By the way, that's what I ask on every episode. I'm the top producer for my company in 2020 and 2021. The numbers just came out for 2022 and I'm really struggling with being number two. I'm working on myself and who I am as a person. If you get past that, I had a baby last year, but I lost to a guy, the same guy who was number one forever until I unceded him for two years and now he's freaking back. He's not as nice as you though. He's pretty cool, actually. He's really nice. All right. I don't even know what you're talking about. Okay. I mean, I knew you were obviously a top producer, but I have to ask what I asked just to give the context there. You're right. Some people do kind of put that filter on that, but that's a bullshit filter. If you ask me, because there's a lot of amazing things that somebody could be doing, even if they're not top one percent or whatever, you know, all those things. Yeah. And how do you get that? Like, I'm pretty sure I'm top one percent, but how do you get that thing? You apply for it. Where? You submit your info to the various magazines and all the people who like publish that crop and you say, hey, feature me. I'm your top one percent. Oh. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. All that. To be in the squad, it's a guy. You have to submit your information. And there's a process. I'm waiting for them to call me. Oh, no, no, no, no. You've got to submit the app with the whole units and they've got to verify it in some way. I don't know how they do it. I'm glad. You're talking. Okay. So find the real fear. What I gather from what you talked about, find the real fear is that that is like a thread for you when you're talking with potential clients, we're for all partners. Yeah. Because people have all these objections that we put in our own way and what's really amazing about us as human beings is how quickly we believe our own lives. Like when I tell a story, it gets better every time. You know, the story gets more engaging every time I tell it, but at some point, I forget the original story. Like I forget how it really happened and I've made myself believe the exaggerated version is what actually happened. Well, we do that with like what we tell ourselves we can afford and we do that with what we tell ourselves like the trajectory of our life is going to be. So we very quickly believe our own lies. And so when someone's telling you, I'm not buying a house because I'm scared of a housing crash, well, I want to know like how did you, how did you become scared of a housing crash? What makes you believe there is going to be a housing crash? What would a housing crash mean for you? Why is it so terrifying? And when you like get to these things, then you find that, oh, it actually has nothing to do with the housing crash. There's some trauma from their childhood or there's some relationship with money that needs to be sorted out or there's some fear of not being able to qualify or not being able to live in the neighborhood they want to live in or something that they've put in there, some roadblock they've put in their own way and you can waste a lot of time answering about a housing crash and like all the data of why we're not going to have it, but that's not going to make them feel any better because it's not their real objection. So if you can find the real fear behind their objection, then you can actually help them. So I'm makes me curious then how you get to that. It makes me curious of a bunch of different things simultaneously. Like what your loan app process is, is it online versus a conversation? How long is it? You know, because you're going a little bit deep here. Yeah. So I still use like an online app. I have people fill that out. Before they do that, we have a quick phone call like 15 minutes. But then after I've qualified them, I get face to face to have this like therapy session. Now face to face. Now to have a buyer consult where we go over their plan. I mean, one of the strategies I teach in my course is about how you find these hidden fears. And then there's a whole nother module, which leads you to be able to do it, which is about awkward silences and just letting people talk. And where did you get your training or education on finding these hidden fears from doing it? But then after being a top producer for a couple years and then building a brand online and realizing that that I was doing things a little differently than my brothers were doing them and a lot different than a lot of other loan officers were doing. And my mom's a therapist. I was like, I'm really interested in psychology. So I started graduate school to get a master's in marriage and family therapy for like three reasons. One, I realized it was a psychology component to what I was doing and what I was building. And I wanted to dive deeper on it to people fight about money in my office all the time. Like marital spats, problems within families about passing down generational wealth, secrets, drama, trauma. People have a fucked up relationship with money in our country. So I was, I allowed to cuss. I should have asked you that before because from the day from the first moment, so I just feel like I want to be able to be a better mortgage professional if I can understand the psychology of how people behave better. And I can help them stop fighting about money with themself and with others. And then third, I wanted to be like a coach someday. I wanted to coach top producers, but I think just being a top producer isn't enough knowing like the psychology background will be great too. Yeah. It's very interesting. You mentioned that because I'm sure you've found both on the work perhaps you've done on yourself. I'm assuming me having done a fair amount of that too. I had somebody say to me once that like building your own business, being an entrepreneur is the greatest and most challenging self-development course you'll ever take. I don't know, marriage is a pretty big one too. That's true. In a different vein sort of, but you're all, you're working on yourself for sure, right? Building your business. Yeah, you are. And like it brings up a lot of like, it brings up this mirror of your strengths and your weaknesses and the ways you let yourself down. Because when you're building your own business, there's no boss that you can like reframe the problem to make them it. You're pointing the finger, it's pointing right back at you, right? Yeah. What's been the hardest thing for you then? I'm really curious on this journey of right, quote, top producers or we keep using that word, but achieving at a high level, however you want to describe it. I think that like, it's getting out of your own way in a big sense because I, and I kind of talked about this at the Modern Mortgage Summit, but I had a really hard point in my career after I had kids because I didn't have the same time to dedicate towards cold calls and being abused by realtors. And so I felt like I was struggling in a sense, but also like a lot of it was I was being my own problem. Like, you know, I was, I was being resentful about not having enough help at home. I wasn't asking for and then demanding help the way I needed to and I was making a lot of excuses and finally I just realized I'm like, I am my own problem. Like, I've got to get out of my own way here. And then you began to do some reframing of different situations and self talk? Well, I started building my business in a different way that was much more fulfilling for sure. Okay. And that helped a ton. It's still like I had to not be resentful about a lot of things and ask for help. And if I didn't, if asking didn't work, then demanding the help, like just I'm, I'm going to take the help I need because you cannot do this. You cannot do everything alone. You need help. And that goes beyond like just delegating. And then it's also a mindset thing like being a loan officer, I think a lot of people, especially women can relate to the fact that we don't have time off. So the first two babies I had, I had no maternity leave. My computer went with me to the hospital to deliver. I did pre-approvals from the bed like I just, I didn't have the space to, and also even as you build out a team in this industry, it's hard because you've sold people on you. And so it's, you know, there's few people who have teams that are doing it really well. And you have to be in your business a lot. And so then you can get resentful. And I remember after my second kid, I would be resentful all the time that I didn't have a maternity leave. Like, why can't I have six weeks to sniff his eyelashes and lick his armpits and not answer people's phone calls? But then I would have to reframe that in my mind and be like, well, I'm not going to go back to work 40 hours a week and put them in a daycare five days a week from nine to five. I have a position where I can be flexible and where I can make my own schedule and in a lot of senses be my own boss. So reframe, right? Like be grateful for this industry and what it allows. Right. Right. It makes me curious for a moment. If I can, how the hell you and your brothers got into the mortgage business? Like it's like, it's like having, you know, the, the, the manning brothers, you know, what I mean? Like you got two, the manning brothers. Oh, geez. Come on. NFL quarterbacks. You got Eli and Peyton Manning. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Two, two super bowl quarterbacks. Anyway, hopefully you understand. I don't pay attention to sports. I'm very. Come on. You get where I'm going here, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. We have three high achieving. Right. It's very successful. You know, siblings all in the same industry and whose parents would not be proud about you told that story, by the way, on stage, they of course didn't want you to be in the mortgage business. Yeah. They're not. They don't. It's not that they didn't want us to be in the mortgage business. It's just that as Indians, you have three choices, doctor, engineer or lawyer. Yeah. You said that's not what we came here for. That's like everything we growing out, they'd be like, because, okay. So for example, I had a job in a salon when I was at the, my senior year of high school. And I worked that job through college and then after for a few years. And I kept saying to my parents, like, let me go to beauty school because I can make a lot more money as a hair stylist or a statistician while I'm going to college, then I can't at the front desk. Like this. I'm looking at the money and the numbers here and I can make more money in less time over there. And they were like, no, we didn't come to this country for you to do that. And if you do that, you will start making too much money and then you won't finish school. Ah, yes. That's a requirement must finish school. Must finish school. So like right now, I'm the only, because I'm in my graduate program for my masters. And I'm the only one of us who will have done graduate school. And I will again, submit my status as favorite child because if you don't have a master's degree, I mean, a bachelor's is nothing to them. Really? Wow. Yeah. Who does, do you guys for going against the, you know, the grain, so to speak or the wishes, right, of the parents to pursue what you really want to pursue? Because not everybody has the courage to do that. And they. Yeah. It is tough. And I think I hope they're proud of us now. I would hope so too. I would think so. You mentioned a word of community a few minutes ago. And I know that's a, you, you mentioned that's how you change your business. You kind of rebuilt your business in terms of getting abused by realtors or whatever. So can you just. Don't or whatever that. That's real. We use a lot of us. Listen, I always say you go where you're celebrated, not tolerated, right? And so we, it's whatever you're willing to put up with for abuse. I know you work with some very successful realtors who don't abuse you, right? Yes. Because why? Why is that the case? Well, because one, I think the first way you become a realtor's ride or die is because in the beginning, right, realtors will only give you their trash deals. Yes. Only trust you with the hardest deal that no one else could do because they're like, well, I don't know if you're going to do a good job anyways, but this is dead right now. So bring it back to life where it stays dead. And so they always test you with those, right? And that builds you some credibility after you close them and they start offering you. But the reason you become a realtor's ride or die is when they had a deal that thought was a sure shot curve ball happens. It gets screwed. You pull through for them and get them their clients into a home. So they get to be the hero and they get their commission. And everybody is happy in the end. So I think that's how you become a ride or die for a lot of realtors. And then beyond that, I'll show up with value nonstop. Like I just want you to know what to talk about this weekend based on the headlines that relate to real estate. So I'll send a newsletter out on Fridays that says here's your talking points. Here's how did I just all the economic news that came out this week and sound smart this weekend. I'll answer their texts. My phone calls like some things are basic. Some things are higher levels. Some things are very unique to me. Some things anyone could do. But I'm just really committed to having good relationships with people where I show up for them in a way besides buying them coffee. How do you get to the point of having good relationships because it takes two. You know, so is there a criteria? Is there do you say here's what a partner means to me? Are you selective? You know what I mean? I'm sure it's evolved over time. Where are you at today? Yeah. So I think it's like, there's this energy you have when you meet with a potential partner right, even with clients. And sometimes you click and it's like, man, we could really like take over the world together. And other times you feel like this vibe like, I'm just not it. And I think you have to be okay with accepting that you're not going to be everything to everyone. And some people are just not going to be the realtor relationship you have for 10 years. This is just not going to happen. Roughly how many agents do you have then and you categorize them, you know, ABC level players type stuff or? No, I don't rank them, but I have. So I have like my top crew of 20 agents that like I they refer to me on the level of like I'm not one of three lenders names they give out. They say like, this is who you have to use. This is who I use personally. If you want to work with me, you must work with her, right? But beyond that now, I don't have time to keep building out more realtor relationships. Of course, I want to help as many realtors as I can here locally. And so our team works together to let as many people work with us as we can. When you said earlier, you know, you're building a team and sometimes people don't like that. Does that mean you're kind of like the, you know, doctor patient relationship you come in white lab code, do your thing, then bounce out and your team handles the rest? No, so I've designed it differently because I want to be involved every step of the way and keep my relationship with the client. But I also want to edify my teammates and people to understand that they're not working with an assistant. They're working with people that I've chosen and very carefully and trained extensively. So one, I mean, that starts with hiring, right? Higher people smarter than you don't hire people who should be assistant. So that's what I've done with my two loan partners. And we have probably not the most efficient process, but we're all in the loop and discussing every file every day at 9 a.m. So we all know what's going on, a daily debrief, a realtor's your number one source of biz? No. What is my content is now? Social media? Yep. Really? So consumer direct getting in your web and going through that whole process. All right? So let's talk about that then. 24. Yeah. I don't cautious to say anything because you're going to like put it through the 24,000 Instagram followers, right? Not that that matters, vanity metrics. I get it. But that proves that, you know, you've done some time and work in building up an audience. But to be honest, like the first year that I started creating content, I had less than a thousand followers and it tripled my business. Really? Yes. Okay. That could mean two things that I either had no business or that the content actually works. But I had some business. I was closing like five to seven loans a month and triple those numbers. Okay. So give me the Shavani Peterson, you know, Crash Course Secret sauce in building a consumer direct machine. Let's take Instagram because that seems to be your main jam. Yeah. I love Instagram. All right. But you just have to think of everything that you would say to someone if they were in your office. Like imagine that everyone you're speaking to with that video is already your client and share with them, like let them inside your process when you create content. And you know, they tell us to always know who you're talking to. I dive really deep on that. Like I know who I'm talking to. I know who this person is. I know where they would get their coffee. I know what questions they would run into. I know that when they saw that headline, like how what it would trigger for them. And that's what I'm going to talk to you. Have you actually designed an avatar or you just kind of have you have? Do you want to articulate a little bit about that? Well, so it's funny. Okay. So let me tell you about my avatar and then let me tell you what I just realized. And then you're going to think, wow, Shavani, you're not that smart. If you only just figured this out. So my avatar is a female. She's 30 to 50 years old. She works full time. She has a family. And there's something about being on this hamster wheel that she's just not diving with. She wants financial freedom to her would mean the ability to be present in any given moment. So that when she's at work, she can be at work and not be worried about where she's not. When she's at home, she could be present with her family and not be worried about being at work. She wants to start like learning about passive income streams and diversifying her income and being more financially stable and independent. She doesn't really have a ton of time to like educate herself on this. So what I'm trying to do is show up when she thinks she's relaxing on her couch after she's put her kids to bed and educate her by entertaining her. Hmm. So that's my avatar and what were you going to say that you thought I wouldn't? I just figured out that I am my avatar. Oh, no, that's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. How did I not realize that I've been talking to myself for the last six years? Yeah, you're too close to it. Somebody once said to me that you are most equipped to help the person you once were. Yes, I love that. How did I not connect the dots when I heard that? Like, I've heard that before and it didn't connect. And I know a lot of people's avatar client is not going to be themself. Right. So, but for some people, it might be, but I just think it's interesting that I've been creating content for this person and building a community and planning events and doing all this stuff without realizing I am this person. Yeah. That's pretty cool. That's really smart. Okay, to get a big tactical then for a second, even though I can hang out there, what is your strategy? Because I look at people like you and, you know, I'm struggling to like produce content on a consistent basis and get better at it. And clearly, you know, all three of you guys have done a great job of that. So it makes me curious. Are you like batch filming or like, how do you produce at a high level? Yeah. I shoot every week and I time block the day before to script my content. And then when my video guy comes, I shoot five to six reels and then he edits them for me. And then I send them off to a guy in India, fragile, who's amazing, who puts my dynamic captions and graphics on. And then I post them. The goal is to post like two of it to a week. So it seems like we're posting a lot more than we are. Two reels a week. Yeah. It does seem like you're posting every day. No, it's just two reels. Really? Wow. And then I'm on my stories a lot because I feel like that's where you can connect with people directly. And then I create content, not just for social media, like I create videos longer form for YouTube and for my realtor partners. So I block the time for that on Fridays. When you say realtor partners, what are you sending them educational content? What content about like how to start and smart this weekend? Okay. So kind of a company is the newsletter or whatever. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Very nice. Very nice. And so Instagram, Germaine, focus, are you posting yourself, you have somebody else post for you? I post myself. I do everything myself. I'm just not filming myself because I'm not good at that stuff. And I'm not putting on my own captions, but I'm writing, I'm scheduling the content. I'm posting the content. I'm writing the content. It's on me. My weak point is posting. I mean, I got a backlog of content. So I just need to pull the trigger and hire somebody to schedule it, you know, not make comments and all that, but just post schedule. Yeah. It is hard. And then like, you got to post it on Instagram and then you got to post it on YouTube shorts and then you got to post it on TikTok and Facebook. It's a lot. Yeah. It is. I don't hold it against you that that's your roadblock because it's a lot. Well, I got to break through it because if it perception is everything, right? And the perception is you guys, you're posting every day and here you tell me it's only twice a week and I'm like, get out of here. You can do twice a week. You got this. Oh, no, I'm like doing every day. That's what I'm going to do. I'm not like people are going to get tired of seeing me. They won't though because of the way that the algorithm works. Right. Right. Exactly. Hey, also, I don't want to leave the scene without talking briefly about your community. You really stressed that a lot, both at the event when you spoke and like you're creating this community. So you, you know, I get the consumer side of things, right? I'm on your Instagram and I love the highlights with the hacks. That's pretty cool. What are you doing that you want to share at all about this whole community vibe or framework that you're bringing to your real estate slash, you know, mortgage partnerships? Yeah. So mainly I've been creating content for the consumer for my avatar client. I think it's important to note that like I work with more men actually than women, most of my clients are not my avatar, but because I'm passionate about something, people respect that, right? They don't have to fit that mold, but they're like, they like your hustle, they like your enthusiasm. So if you're scared to design your avatar because you're scared you'll exclude other people, that's not the case. You'll just look like more organized and your voice will come through stronger in your videos because you know who you're talking to. But anyways, that was a tangent. And I forgot your question. The community that you've built with real estate agents. Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to now, as the following grew up, like you said and pointed out, a lot of those people who are following me are not consumers now. They're realtors and loan officers and a lot of them were asking me for help. And so I started putting together the mind of a markets community so that I could help really sales people in any industry, build or access, I guess I should say resilience within their business so that they're not so at the whim of market cycles and interest rates and the economy. And they can build a business that's more recession proof. All right. So I'm on that right now that we'll put a link into it in the show notes. This is potentially for loan officers to go check out and realtors. And if you work in sales, honestly, in any industry, okay. So you've got, I mean, what can they expect if they go check that out and consider participating? It's a, you tell us. Go ahead. On Instagram subscription, you can get involved with that. And that's basic. That's going to give you just like quick tips and insights that you can be using to improve your content and your marketing. And if you want to go beyond that, you can buy the course online itself paced. It's eight weeks long and it has eight modules where we really dive into how you can turn your audience into a community where you attract their attention. And you earn their trust and ultimately build loyalty because that's what you need, right? Is that they would use you over anybody else regardless of the scenario. So that eight week course will help you do that. And then if you want to go even deeper, we can do one-on-one coaching. Hmm. And this would be maybe you help them get clarity on their kind of content strategy, avatar or things like that. All kinds of personal and professional development. Like I want to help you. Sure. Head stuff. Yeah. I want to get into it, right? Like coaches who are professional coaches are like, well, the biggest challenge is it ends up going beyond business and into personal stuff where they actually should be talking to a therapist. Well, I'm going to school to be a therapist. So let's get into it. That's awesome. Listen, you can't separate the two. They're intertwined. Yeah. Your business is 100% affecting your life. Your life is affecting your business. Like we've got to get it all straight. Yeah. What do you, I'm curious. What do you do locally in your community with role state agents, education-wise? Do you, like, advance classes? Do you do one-on-one consult as well? Yeah. So we have two big things that we do. One is the mortgage and memosos click. And so it's events that we do quarterly where we bring them together and just share like super valuable information, whether it's marketing, whether it's about the market, whether it's new loan programs. And they get together. They get a little bit drunk at 10 a.m. and then we educate them. And then the other thing is the future is female, which is for realtors and investors. It's a fundraising group I started to empower women as real estate investors. And we raised money for the Women and Children's Center of the Sierra, which helps women in our community with everything from diapers to an education and job placement. And so that's been really, really cool and fun to be a part of. And also, like, after the future is female events, like you hear from all these women who are like, I didn't even know or I didn't think it was possible. And now I'm so inspired and I'm going to go, like, I'm going to go after my dreams. And I love that. That's awesome. Congrats. It's always, I mean, there's a few things more fulfilling, right, than orring into somebody else. And especially, yeah, especially if you like help people have a, this is like back to your whole, getting your masters, helping people have a breakthrough, right, a mental or emotional breakthrough and all of a sudden, like when they step in there and they accept their greatness that they just can't see for whatever reason, you know? Yes. And like, then you're both buzzing afterwards, like it's the best. And talk about, all right. So you, you referred to realtors abuse you. I was going to say, I was going to say, and that creates loyalty, doesn't it? When they get to abuse you. No, no, when you like, when you initially change in some people's life, like this transfer me, this is going to sound cheesy and weird. And like people are like, dude, I don't want to know realtors that well. And what I'm saying is like, that's the answer to all you're complaining and bitching about realtors is like build real relationships with people who value you. Don't work with realtors that you don't want to know that well, like work with the ones that you want to know that well, like that you, you respect their hustle, they respect yours. You guys click, like you can help each other take over the world. This business is too hard to work with people that you don't like. Yeah. Yeah. You fired people in the past, haven't you, realtors? That's awesome. That's awesome. So I think the big takeaway, what I mean, what I'm hearing from like everything you are energy wise, I also wrote down from your talk, attract versus chase, you know, it's just being who you are is what attracts people. Yes. And like when you're really authentically doing it, so like, people would wonder, how do you have more male clients than female when all you're doing is talking to women all the time and speaking about female empowerment? Because it attracts people like the enthusiasm, the hustle, the commitment I have to what I do, it attracts people. So find something that you can be that passionate about. You'll attract all kinds of people to your audience and into your sphere and into your world where you can build them into a community. Yeah. Love that. Okay. This has been fantastic. We are going to put a link in the show notes to your Instagram jam because that's where it's all at. And there's a link tree in her bio. You can go there to find out more about all the stuff we mentioned in here. Shavani, it's about time we did this and I'm glad we did. Yeah. This was so much fun. Like a lot of podcasts and a music not fun and this was really fun. Thank you so much. You help make it fun. So listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode. Hey, leave us a review, share it with somebody you like. And most importantly, connect with Shavani Instagram in the show notes and her thank tree stuff. Go check it out. Appreciate you guys. We'll see you on the next one. Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cool calling done for you agent classes, expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you. 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