Why This LO Refuses to Quote a Rate

Welcome to the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Shive. And in case my voice sounds unfamiliar, I am not Jeff obviously, but I am doing a guest takeover today on behalf of Jeff. And I'm really excited to share the interview with you. So today, I'm going to be interviewing Kayla Calendar. She's a top producing loan officer out of North Dakota. She is really active on social media, specifically linked in an Instagram. And she helps a lot of first-time home buyers. Now that might sound cliche, but if you follow her online, you'll see she is helping a lot of first-time home buyers every single month. And she is really passionate about that. So we're going to get into that a bit in today's episode. We're going to talk a little bit about her involvement with First Home IQ and all of the things that make her special. So without further ado, let's get into today's episode. So Kayla, I'm really excited to have you on today's show. And for those listening that might not know of you, Kayla Calendar, tell us like the 30,000-foot view, like how would someone describe you? Like you are in North Dakota. You work at a bank. Like there's so many things that you do differently than the normal loan officer, which is why we're really excited to talk to you today. So for everybody listening, tell us like who you are. And what are you doing? Loaded answer, get ready. Okay, I'm Kayla Calendar. I live in Fargo, North Dakota, yes. Anytime I meet someone, they're like, you're really from Fargo. I didn't know they have blonde girls in Fargo. But yes, Fargo, North Dakota, born and raised in North Dakota, grew up on a farm, graduated with a class of 29. I don't know why I use that as like a measurement, but let's you know how small of a town in front of me. Ball town. Okay. And then started working at a bank when I was 15 and got into business, went to college for business and continued working in the banking field and ended up in mortgage accidentally like most people. And for the last decade, I've been doing mortgages, which I always share. It's helping people get educated and empowered and understand in a world of chaos and lack of calm. That's kind of my superpower is to help people understand the power behind why you should own a home and all the numbers, all the things. It's there's so much to it and have become wildly obsessed with it. And I have four rescue pit bulls that I'm also obsessed with. I'm married. I have a lake home that I travel to often because we don't travel that much otherwise. And what else? I love to sleep. Fun fact, I love sleeping. So that's why I have to get to the side of that because I feel like anytime you and I actually first met on Instagram and we're gonna get into your social media strategy because you definitely are super active on social media. But you and I actually first connected on Instagram and DMs. And what I always found fun about you is like, it felt like no matter when I would respond or reply, like you would reply back. And I always think like I'm in a different time zone and my mom said work different crazy hours and yet you're always really responsive. So you say you love sleep, but do you ever sleep? Yes, that's one thing I do well is I have my ordering and I love it. You track your hours, that's awesome. Okay, so let's dig in a little bit like, okay, so you mentioned that you started working in a bank for 15 and obviously now you've transitioned into being a mortgage advisor for well over the last 10 years and you currently work at a bank, which is, can you talk to me about how that is different in the role that you serve versus if you were, you know, at a traditional IMB or had gone the broker route. I think a lot of people ask that question, what, why a bank, you know, I work for a bank, you know, that has a really great reputation in Fargo and what's really great is there's a lot of different tools that we can provide a client from outside of the mortgage realm. So if they need a HELOC or maybe they need private banking, it's many arms that we can have, but also it allows me to remain really competitive with my pricing and fees. But what's really great about where I work is the reputation. It's really, Fargo is small and I work at a company that has grown into this really great reputation. Now working at an IMB or a broker, of course there's value there. There's pros and cons anywhere you work, right? And I did, you know, I was at an IMB for a short, you know, seven weeks, but who's counting? You know, I've never worked at a broker so I can't share the difference between like what I would experience, but there is this thing that Greg Shayer always shares. No pun intended is, you know, that all of us, you know, whatever you want in your career and whatever you want to do and serve in what products and what set up IMB, broker bank, there's advantages, pros and cons with each and I'm at a bank right now and I've been here for a gosh, six years. So wow. Yeah. So it's cool because, you know, obviously you talk about, you're in a small town and you know, there's differences in being in a small area versus a more urban area as well. And so yeah, you're, you know, being at a bank that has a real strong community presence probably allows you to also do things with your personal brand that maybe wouldn't if you were at, you know, a mortgage company that had no local presence. Yeah, I think too, like the community piece is really important. First international is really involved with sponsoring and being able to provide volunteer opportunities and it's like anywhere you go, whether it's a sporting event or, you know, out to eat, you see that we are really invested in our community and when I think about being invested in the community, that's also home ownership. So in Fargon, Articode, it works really well to be, you know, tied to this local brand and local bank. Yeah, okay, cool. So one of the things that I have heard you talk about through your social media presence primarily is you specifically said this phrase, prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And the very first time I heard that, I mean, you're the first person I've ever heard use that phrase, but it really resonated with me. Obviously it's a medical term, but you applied that to your business. Can you explain, like what is that exactly mean and why do you believe that that's true? A thousand percent believe in that process, when you don't feel well or you think something is wrong, you don't just go to your doctor and say, hey, what do you prescribe? You don't just ask for something when you've never been seen, extras haven't been done, blood work hasn't been ran, you haven't seen a doctor, right? The same applies for the largest purchase of your life. The biggest amount of money you will probably ever spend is on real estate, a home. But yet, a lot of us lenders get calls that say, hey, I'm calling around, what's my rate? What's the rate? And in reality, I think, well, what do you want it to be? Do you want it to be five to quarter? Do you want it to be six and an eighth? It truly depends on your scenario and where I struggle to really give a client a rate is if I'm just guessing, I'm not helping that client at all. I could tell a client, yeah, your rates five and a quarter, but it's gonna cost them $27,000 at closing on their loan size. Or maybe they don't even want to pay money or maybe we need to talk less about rate and more about out of pocket or more about renovation loans or construction. And so I really try to let my referral partners know do not tell clients to just go shop rate. I mean, I wouldn't tell someone to go and find a realtor or a doctor and just say, go find the cheapest doctor that you can and then let me know who you want to work with. So I go again, going back to prescription without diagnosis as malpractice for me to properly curate and prescribe and diagnose. I need to see your application, your financials, and then I need to do an analysis. I need to meet with my team, review the X-rays, talk to my head of whatever you want to call it in the medical field and find out what kind of work that's for their goals. So that's where it came from. Well, it's a really great analogy that makes sense. It's really common when you lay it out that way. What would you say is the cost to the person who is that heavy-focused rate shopper? What does that really do to the client experience and just that perception in general? I think my rates and fees really competitively priced in my area, but you will always be able to find a cheaper rate. You can go online, make 10 dials and find a cheaper rate that day. Wait 20 minutes in the rates move again. But when clients are just chasing a rate, they're not asking how many loans have you done in Fargon or Dakota? Have you ever done VA loans? What do your clients have to say about you? Do you close timely? Do you have an origination fee? There's so many things that go into this and when all you're doing is chasing a rate, you are missing out on value. And I actually, Katie, I had a client last week, not around here. My rate was higher a little bit than some credit union in a small Minnesota town. And he's like, so why would I use you if your rates, I think it was like an eighth higher? And I said the same reason that you would choose your doctor or your personal trainer or the fact that you would choose this car over that car. And I said, everybody has different needs and requirements. Does your lender respond after 5 p.m.? Katie, so many lenders turn off their phone. This weekend, I had got out, I think it was eight pre-approval letters that clients needed as they were shopping. Is that important to you? Or is the eighth percent better for that day? Right, right. The client is, they are only taught to shop rates, but they're never really taught to not just shop lenders, interview lenders. Who do you jive with? Who has a really raving Google review, 100 reviews on Google that talks about their work ethic? I think that that's what clients miss out on when they're just shopping rate. Yeah. Well, and I mean, the same could be said to your realtor partners as well, because I think realtors have also, you know, this is a little bit different from just the traditional rate conversation, but I hear a lot that realtors still give out the three cards. And I think you could apply that as well. How would you respond to that of a realtor that still is like, well, I give out three cards and you're one of them? So I actually had this conversation with a realtor. I said, you say I'm the best and you want your clients to work with me. Do you not feel it's in your clients' best interest to work with me? And she said, yes, I do. And I said, then why are you doing them a disservice by, honestly, Katie, I feel like it confuses clients. They do three applications. They have three credit reports. They have a lender calling them and, you know, with trigger leads happening. And then their phone's blowing up. And then this lenders telling them put 3% down and this one's saying 4%. We all have different ways of helping somebody, but it confuses the client and what I'm seeing as they give up. So what I do with realtor is as I say, here's what I recommend. Say, go talk to Kayla. She will take care of you. She is the best. And tell them, go look online, go Google her. That way it's not just you and your word. If you're worried about them having a bad experience, which that's not what this realtor's concern was at all. But I said, have them go and Google me and then say, talk to Kayla. And if she does not take care of you, let me know and I'll have other recommendations. Because then they're just talking with me. They're getting comfortable. This is a very vulnerable moment. And opening up about your financial situation to three strangers is scary. So I come back that way, give them my info. Tell them why they should use me. And then let's just start there and just tell them if it doesn't work out. I got two other people. So that's what I do, right? Right, right. Yeah, no, that's a great approach too. And I think it really comes down to the level of trust and value that you offer to your referral partners as well and making sure that you're really aligned in how you serve your clients and what they're needing. So one of the things that I find really unique about your approach is the diverse range of types of clients that you serve. So anybody that's listening, I would highly encourage you to go follow Kayla on Instagram and LinkedIn. And we'll have all of the links and stuff in the show notes. But you're really active on your stories, especially. And I feel like I see you constantly posting photos of helping a first-time home buyer who's young and then they're early 20s all the way up to doctors and high-end net worth professionals, people buying their second homes. So those in and of themselves are pretty niche and can be very technical. So can you talk to me about who would you define as some of your core clients that you serve and how do you serve each of those personas or categories really well when they're so different? They are so different. But one thing I've noticed quite a bit lately, probably in the last year is that I have clients that are buying their fifth home and no one has ever broken it down for them the way that I do. So they'll say, Kayla, this is my second third fourth home, I bought my late home. And no one has ever told me that I could pay money for a lower rate, what are you talking about? Or that I didn't have to ask her taxes or insurance? Like what I'm finding is that you need to treat everybody the same. So, and that's just the approach that I take. So I say, I will say, I'll have a discovery call. I'll get to know their hopes or dreams or fears. You'd be surprised that a first-time home buyer has similar fears as a client that's going to sell their first home and buy them never sold before. Oh my gosh, I'm buying a second home where a vacation I've never had that. So I find a lot of similarities, but the differences that I see are usually the ones that I bought before, they've been through it. So they get it for the most part. But there's just a different level of detail. But what I'm finding is you might have a first-time home buyer that's an engineer and is super detailed. You might have a doctor that's like, I don't even know if I escrow. Like it's so different yet so similar. So I just approach every single client the same. We're very detailed, we're hands-on, and I ask them, do you want the high-level version or the detailed? And I let the client kind of decide, but what I find is if I treat them all the same, I kind of read the room and kind of structure or plan for that client based on that. Interesting, and so I think one of the other things, like if I were to just kind of pinpoint what I could assume off of some of the differences, is talk about working with high-net wealth professionals or doctors, for example. They're typically, they don't hold traditional office hours in that like nine to five Monday through Friday. So do you find that even though maybe they're a little more knowledgeable about the process as opposed to a first-time home buyer, their needs are still very different because of the career that they have and how are you best positioned to serve them as a loan officer? You know, especially doctors, I see so many that they just, the time that they have to meet with their spouse and get on a call, we always offer, if you cannot meet during traditional hours, let us know. A lot of times we're hopping on a Zoom on a Saturday morning. And there's so much gratitude from the client for that because we know how busy they are and how tired they are. You, we always tell our clients, we know you're not going to probably find a home on a Tuesday at 2 p.m. So what we tell people is let's meet, let's talk when it works for you. I think that if you want to be competitive and you want to provide your clients based, you know, to a service based on their needs, you have to be flexible. Now I'm not saying you need to meet with every client at 10 p.m. on a Friday night, you need to have boundaries in this industry because my goodness, they will get broken down so fast, but by being able to be flexible, I don't work eight to five. I work when my client needs me and sometimes those doctors, those physicians, those dentists, and some first-time home buyer. The option is a Sunday morning and we do our best to accommodate that. Yeah, it's so true. And I think that yeah, they have different needs for sure. So let's bounce over a little bit more to first-time home buyers as well because you post a lot of that. And I know I've seen some other things just going off of your profile and prepping for today's interview. And that you're involved with First Home AQ. So what is your involvement with First Home AQ? And why do you have a sweet spot? I talk with a lot of loan officers and I actually almost get the opposite. I think as an industry, we know it's important. But then when you really break it down, some of the things that I hear of like, oh, they need a lot more education and their price point is lower and it takes a lot more time, like their runway time before they're available is longer. But maybe this is just the outside looking and I don't get that impression from you. So what is your opinion on First Home Buyers in that? I just like my heart is on fire when you talk about first-time home buyers. What I've noticed, like this job is not for the fainted part. It's stressful. There's so many hands in the pot. There's so many moving parts. There's people's homes are on the line here. So when it comes to First-time Home Buyers Katie, what I found is they're so uneducated and they're so scared. And I actually, when a realtor or a client reaches out and they're like, hey, I've got a client, they're really nervous. I almost get excited because I'm like, oh, wait. When they meet with me, we're gonna be best friends and we're gonna talk. And so I have this like sensitive place for First-time Buyers because nine out of 10 times, they're given wrong information. Yeah, there's great information on TikTok and YouTube is great information, but it's almost information overload. They don't know who to believe, what to believe. They're dads telling them about, you know, when they bought and this young TikTokers telling them this, but it's not applicable to their town. So when I can get a first-time buyer, just on a 15-minute call or zoom. And I just say, let's talk. It's okay, you don't have to apply, we're not pulling credit. Just tell me, what's motivating you don't wanna buy? Well, I have a dog and we're in an apartment and you know, I've got, you know, money saved up and I've wanted to put, you know, holes in my wall or have a garden yesterday, a girl said, I just want to put my bare feet on grass and I'm like, honey, yes, grass. And she's like, I hope this doesn't sound stupid, I just wanna mow my lawn. And I said, no, I think that's amazing. And so when you really break down what's behind it for a client, what's the motivating factor and you just say, let's just talk as humans. Then they're more, you know, open and say, okay, I'll do the application and I say, no cost, no commitment. It's just me doing my prescription without diagnosis as my practice. I wanna be able to see what, you know, everything looks like behind the scenes. And then the best part is when you tell them, they can buy a home and they're like, wait, what? I can and then I'm only getting the keys. So I love that of, you know, helping people build that confidence and getting a piece of calm in a place of chaos. So I have such a sweet spot for first-time home buyers. And do you find by helping them and, you know, maybe this is a little bit different to your market because I would imagine, you know, the price point in Fargo, North Dakota, it's gonna be very different than somebody listening to maybe Denver, Seattle or LA. But for helping first-time home buyers, do you have clients where you've helped them get in young, maybe they've house hacked? And then even in a year or two later, they're like, they have that light bulb moment where they're like, this is the power of ownership. And that first time, like, kind of hesitant, scared buyer is now feeling like super emboldened or like energized to like continue. Do you ever have clients that you help that are like, wanting to move up or add more doors to their investment portfolio? Yeah, those are the best as you do a check-in or, hey, how's it going? And I actually talked to one of my clients that bought. November 15th, 2024. Don't ask me why I remember. I think it was just such a special day. He was a young buyer in a small town and he was nervous. He was so scared. And then I talked to him about a year later, he had questions because on insurance and we were chatting. And I said, so tell me, you were really nervous when you bought, how are you feeling about that decision? And he's like, oh my gosh, best decision I've ever made. He added flooring, he made improvements. And what's cool is like, even some clients after a year or two, seeing the equity that they've made. And they go to sell. They're like, he loves it too soon to sell. Let's just say we're two and a half years in. And I'm like, no, I mean, it's really based on what you guys want to do in your goals. It is so cool to say, my gosh, your realtor is telling you you're going to list it for this much. People forget about this silent equity gain. People just think, I'm renting for $2,000. My mortgage is $3,000. There's no way, that's so silly. And I'm like, yeah, but in the meantime, you're making $20 grand over here in equity. And over five years, it's not timing the market. It's your time in the market. Yeah, market, yeah. So you create that. So that is one of the most common things I see with clients is like, oh my gosh, I had no idea that it was, like this could be done. And it's usually when they go to sell or they go to tap into equity. Yeah, so cool. So let's talk a little bit about social media. Because when you were talking about the first time home buyer and you made some references to TikTok, first of all, are you on TikTok? I'm on TikTok, yes. You are, okay. I feel I myself feel a little bit under a rock. I'm like, I am not on TikTok, but that shouldn't surprise me because I follow all of your social media channels. And I had followed you for a long time before I actually ever even sent you a DM and was like, hey, and shortly after I connected to you, fun fact, I actually sent Jeff a message and I was like, you need to have her on your podcast because she is really just forward in your marketing and what you're doing. So let's talk about that on social media. And I know it's not about vanity metrics. It's really not about how many of followers that you have, although I think that is something. But I think it's more about the quality of conversations that you have and the things that we don't see, like the number of DMs that you're getting and conversations that you're having. So what would you say has been, you know, outvigate like the best advantage for you in having a social media footprint? I love this question because for a while, I was like, what's the point? I'm making, you know, I'm sharing these things. I'm posting closings. This was like in 2016, 2017. And I'm like, is this like, this feels like a second job. Is this even worth it? What is so cool about social media is that you have this platform to build trust without even having to convince a client. And here's what I mean by that. I had a client that got referred to me. Realtors said, hey, I sent this client stopped in an open house. I sent your info. They already know who you are. They follow your Instagram. That happened three times in a weekend. And to me, I'm like, okay, they know who I am. I get on a call with them. And I'm like, hi, guys, I'm Kayla. A little bit about me. The girl goes, I know all about you. You have four dogs. I love your content. I learned so much. And she's like, we have dogs. It is this instant like warmth and cozy and comfort versus you have somebody a lender and you can't even find them on Google. Are they real? And you're like, okay, I'm gonna call this person. They don't answer their phone. Like social media is building trust without you even having to convince a client. And so for me, it's just another error in my quiver of getting in front of a client without having to share everything about me and convince them why they should use me. They're already looking me up. They're already following my stories. And a lot of times, they're not just choosing me because I'm a really great lender. They might feel, wow, she's really relatable. Or, oh my gosh, she has like I said, dogs. And I have a dog. She seems like someone I can talk to a friend. So that's, that's why. I'm seeing the social. So you're on social a lot. And can you, can you break that down a little bit? Like what platforms are you on? Let's start there. So I'm on LinkedIn. LinkedIn I have the most followers because I've been on LinkedIn for so long. I feel like LinkedIn is kind of a powerhouse that people forget about. It's not a job engine search only. It's not just for finding a job. It's for connecting with professionals. Okay. I'm on Instagram, which is directly linked to Facebook. It's amazing how many friends and followers you get on Facebook after being on it for 20 years, you know what I mean? So don't forget about Facebook. There's a lot of power there at Instagram. And then yes, I have TikTok. Now my account got hacked a year and a half ago. So I had to rebuild and that's okay. So I've got TikTok. And I have YouTube that I'm slowly working in. I do a lot of my podcasts that we upload. But that's a whole other beast that you have to figure out and algorithm things like that. But a lot of platforms to be honest. Okay. So I hear you and just as somebody that does create content myself, I'm even listening and I'm like, whoo, that's a lot. Because I mean, let's be honest. We can all say you just need to be everywhere, right? Like I love even Arjun had said the other day, like the best known beats the best. Because you know, it's like whoever is the best known typically gets, you know, the first call or whatnot. And so, yes, we all say like you have to be everywhere and get in front of as many people. But I find it, that's really overwhelming. Especially if you're like, hey, I'm a loan officer first. I'm really good in sales. I've never met a stranger. I'm great in front of people. And like I just choke in front of the camera. Or I, you know, one of the things I think some of our listeners might say, and I'm just gonna say this on behalf of them is like, okay, Kayla. Like you have, you know, you talk about your lake house and you post a lot of photos about your dog and all of these, you know, different things that you're interested in. What if, what would you say to somebody listening if they feel like maybe they're boring? And from the sense of, I don't know what to talk about on social and I don't just wanna post the picture of my closings. Mm-hmm. I think this is really common. And I think too that we forget about social media and we can really get you in that comparison trap. The comparison can be with the food joy or it can create some fire underneath the view to say if I'm feeling this way, maybe there's something I'm missing. So there's a lot with social, right? It can be tiring. You're like, am I doing enough? I felt the same way. I'm like, I don't know if people are going to take me seriously. I feel like as a woman and being blonde, I'm like, do I have to work harder to have people take me seriously? And then I realized, I am me. My heart is goofy. When it comes to my business, I'm solid, I'm strict, I'm straight, I'm very competitive. But what I would say to somebody is just start showing up and I would say it in stories. Stories are where the magic happens and stories that everyone's going to see posted but that's where there's DMs and that's where people get to know you. If I struggle to get on and have this camera in front of my face, sometimes I'll just do like B-roll. Maybe I'll set my camera up while I'm working my phone anyway. And then I'll put some words over it on a post. I would say find the places that, you know, you're finding yourself having conversations with clients, these aha moments. Where are the same conversations coming up? Tell the story about how you helped somebody. And so I think there's a couple ways to do it and I think you just have to test it out. But show up as authentically you. Don't try to be everybody else. Try the stories like to say, hey, I'm on my way to a closing, I help this person. I don't know why, but I feel like that's just less pressure than a real. And then that's how I started on doing rules. I'm like, okay, the stories people were like, you should make that story a real. And I'm like, oh, okay, because then you can share it. So that's how I leaned into it. But you have to come in thinking, you can't be perfect because you're never gonna post. And you have to realize you're not for everybody. And that's okay because you don't want to be either. But I promise you that something you share, even if it helps one person realize they can buy a home, then that's not boring. You're doing exactly what you should be doing showing up online. So two things that I take away from what you just shared, there's a lot. But two things that I take away is, one, you have to understand that like you start, so you're gonna, you have to start somewhere, right? Like we're not all camera ready or influencer status. And so I think if you, if you give yourself permission to start and say, hey, I understand just like with money and wealth, like compound effort, like effort will compound over time, right? So the more that you practice and the more that you do it, the better it gets. But you also said something that I wanna key in on and that is to know who you're talking to. So how do you approach that? Because I find a lot of people when they approach social media is they try to be all things to all people to have this infinite reach and in return, they end up having like no influence because they're talking so broad. So like what would you say about really knowing your audience? I think it's again trial and error. I mean, you never know who's seeing your stuff because a lot of times people see your stuff whether or not liking or sharing or commenting. But typically what you're seeing is the magic in the DM. So I would say pay attention to the posts or the things that you put out there that are having clients ask questions. Whether it's hey, did you know you can make an extra payment a year and do this or whatever it is that you're posting, just pay attention. But Katie, I don't know if there's really a way that you know who you're talking to, but just like how in our world, in our sales and in our business of mortgage that you're always told, you need to niche down, you need to have, who do you help most, we're always told this. So I would challenge somebody to try to niche down some posts, maybe say, are you a single mom that struggles with understanding your finances and if you can buy a home? Or maybe you say, are you a medical professional and you struggle with putting money down for your down payment when you're not making the money yet, but you have a contract that you will be like, whatever it may be, just niching down on the content. I mean, for someone like me, I might say, do you have a dog and you're you sick of living in your apartment? I often kind of do this broader approach too, but when you kind of test it out, you've seen who follows and who likes and what I've found is you might help one doctor and what's happening is that doctor's gonna tell their doctor or you might help this one dog groomer and that dog groomer's gonna tell their dog groomer friend. So it's kind of like birds of a feather, but you really just have to test it out and try to just niche down on your content, pick one thing and go that route. One of the things you have to give yourself permission to, to kind of trial and error that way through it. And you know, like you're saying, I mean, you can look at, you can look in some of the analytics on the backend view counts and things like that. But one metric that I heard somebody share recently that they follow and I liked the mindset is, and you know, we talk about virality of like, oh, this post went viral or I think sometimes people assume that to be successful in growing their business through social media is they need viral content. But what I recently, this mindset shift was viral for me. And what do I mean by that is like, hey, what is viral for you look like? That might be you share one story and you get three DMs out of that. Or maybe you get, you know, a realtor who viewed it and it's been following you for a while because there's people that follow, but they don't engage. That's where it makes it really tricky. And then, you know, maybe that's one post is what makes them decide, oh, I trust you. I will start sending you business. So rather than looking at the number of impressions or shares which are really traditional metrics, I think they're really incorrect. If we look at it as a viral for me, what is the standard for you? So can you talk to me, do you have, I know you had mentioned in a previous conversation, you shared a carousel and it was a little bit contrarian to what was going on in the current market. And then you got conversations all weekend out of that, but you actually got a lead directly from that from an out-of-state realtor, am I correct? Yeah, so long story short, but you know, sometimes we get nervous to post things that might go against the grain or might be controversial. You get nervous still with what you've built. All the time, I'd even delete stuff sometimes. So I'm like, oh my gosh, someone's gonna get offended. And I was just at this point where I get frustrated when I see headlines and then clients panic. And I'm like, why are people sharing these things? We need to get to the truth and the source and we need to educate the consumer. So yes, I made a post and I'm like, do I do this? And I posted it on a Saturday morning, which doesn't usually go over well. It's usually during the week. But this post, everyone started sharing it because everyone in the industry was relating to it. They're like, oh my gosh, someone finally said it. And many clients that asked to cop are not clients. Many other industry professionals asking to copy it because they're like, I wanna share this. Well, what happened is people are sharing it because they want their audience to see it. And yeah, you have, I had a couple of different individuals in our industry reach out and say finally, thank you for sharing that. And that leads to conversations, that leads to coffee, that leads to clients. But I'm not gonna be that lender that's afraid to say the truth. And sometimes you gotta do that through social. So that carousel, again, it wasn't a real. It usually reels or what kind of, I guess, game the most attention. It was a carousel that you slide through. And it was just me saying, hey, here's a real deal about interest rates and the headlines that you've heard. And yeah, it was scary to post. But I mean, I had, so I think that post, I had more followers than I've ever had. And it was everyone in our industry. So now there's realtors that are like, wow, she's speaking the truth, I'm gonna follow her. And guess what, we might now be in business and have a client together. Yeah, it's kind of taking that leap and it's okay to be scared. But that's usually what leads to the most successes doing the things that are the most scary. Yeah. So what, you know, you mentioned the contrarian, kind of taking a contrarian take, which doesn't, most of your content doesn't really feel like that. So maybe there's something to be said about leaning in more to having, you know, it's the say it louder for those in the back. Yes. Let's talk about, I'd be curious to hear, are you using AI? And how do you bring in AI to your content? Because it seems like you create a lot of, a lot of original ideas, but how do you bring in AI to your content? Well, truthfully, you find a friend in Katie Shive who tells you all the things that you need to hear. You know, upgrading from chat GPT to the clouds of the world, the Gemini's. Like, there's so much out there, it gets to be overwhelming. But I truly think if you just take some time to understand how other options work for you, I mean, using Claude versus chat GPT just the output is so much more in depth. And, and when you train it, so what I did is I had a brand book created that was plugged into Claude where it really understands my voice, my vision, who I am as a human, who I am as a professional. And what I do, and this maybe this sounds super simple, but I have these thoughts and I have these ideas, but I sometimes don't know how to get it articulated well. So when you can plug something in and say, hey, Claude, here's what I'm dealing with, I want to create a post, but I want this to be my audience, it is amazing how it can take your ideas and just have them just so much better organized it. Ah, like organized in a way that is digestible to the consumer because a lot of us lenders are like, V-O-E, C-O-E, P-V-O-E, like we're staying all these acronyms, we have all these thoughts, but we have to remember, sometimes we need AI to kind of, I want to say not dumb it down, but bring it down to a digestible level. So I use it for, hey, I want to do a post about this, and it's amazing how it like takes my words, but also like maybe I want it to be softer, or maybe I want it to be edgier. And so I use it a lot for just post ideas, I've used it for a first time home buyer webinar that I was doing, but it really is not supposed to replace me, it's supposed to almost enhance me, like take my words in my vision and organize it. So that's what I've been using, Claudin, Gemini and ChatGBT, the most for. So you kind of bounce all over. One of the things I've heard from a few loan officers who have been hesitant to embrace AI specifically with social media is they're just concerned about authenticity. Like they're like, if AI writes it for me, then I didn't really say it. What would you say to somebody who's really struggling to lean into AI? And maybe that is, could they leaning, they're leaning into AI actually help them get off the fence and create more content or content consistency? But what would you say to that specific statement that if they didn't write it specifically, an AI helped that it's not really them? I say your competitors going to do it, and they're gonna attract the consumer or the referral partner. I think that AI, yeah, you should be concerned. I still get online and I'm like, this is so ChatGBT, my gosh, get rid of it. What are those long dashes? M dashes? Oh, the M dashes. We are still in that, like, come on people. So you can totally tell. And I'm like, so I would challenge somebody to write it yourself, write it yourself, and then plug it in and have it fine tuned a little bit. Tell it what you want to do. Speak it, you know, take my words and polish it to reflect someone that's reading it as a first time buyer, whatever it may be. And at the end of the day, sometimes I post something and I'm like, it's just like, there's something missing. If I'm a consumer, I'm reading this, there's something missing. I'll plug it into AI. And I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you. It's not to replace you. It's to help you. I mean, it's no different than asking a friend, hey, how could I rewrite this? What's the difference between asking a friend, hey, if I posted this, would this make sense versus AI? You just cannot have it write it all for you. It's very clear when that happens. Yeah. No, it's really real when you start looking at some of the content. You can go to the extreme. I see this in, I feel like it's more obvious in LinkedIn. Maybe that's in the platform that I hang out on more. Or you're just like scroll, scroll, scroll before you're like, oh, finally, somebody is real voice. You know, and how you actually maybe talk. But you touched that you have the most followers on LinkedIn. And again, it's not about the follower count. But why do you believe that loan officers should be in LinkedIn? You know, I think it's a different market. I think a lot of your home buyers are probably on the Instagrams of the world. But I think that your kind of B2B, maybe it's your lawyers, your financial advisors. The realtors aren't on there as much as they should be either. But to me, I'm getting more, hey, I have a company event. Could you come speak? Or I get a referral from somebody. I'm like, oh, who sent you my way the other day last week? Someone said, oh, my boss told me he follows you on LinkedIn. And I should talk to you. My biggest referral source in 2022 was from a group of financial advisors. Because one of them saw my posts saw the day financed in South Dakota, did a deal for a doctor in South Dakota, had a good experience. He started using me, then told all of his financial advisors, you guys, 30% of my business, like, what from? Because I posted on LinkedIn that I could help someone in South Dakota. So I think that it's a way to do more B2B versus B2C. And now there's still people that are going to reach out and want to loan in whatever state that is a home buyer. But to me, it's where the professionals are, or the HR people. How cool would it be to get in with HR at a company in town, the clinic in town, and be like, hey, yes, send me your people. It's just a different platform. Yeah. And I think I would argue that maybe your quality of referrals are also going to be different. Because again, if you're working with professionals, they're probably coming to you. Maybe their income is better, or maybe, I don't know. I mean, I just think that there's opportunity there. The other thing that's great and overlooked with LinkedIn is you can do more long form content. Do you have you gotten into anything like newsletters or writing articles, or are you mainly just posting and having conversations? In this season of life that I'm in, wild one, I am just really just posting when I can. I've not done newsletters. What I've started doing, actually, though, is I will do a weekly email to partners if they want to be on this list. And I'll just give a quick like, hey, here's what rates are doing. Here's a tip, something like that. But I think there's a lot of value in doing a LinkedIn newsletter because if you've got followers, you can easily say, hey, sign up for my newsletter, and it's a click of a button. It's actually genius. I follow a lot of those newsletters because I'm like, yes. And what's great about that is you already have, whatever, maybe 1,000 people that you're connected with. If you just put out there, invite all these people to join your newsletter. I mean, why wouldn't you? But I haven't gotten there yet. But with the help of some friends in the industry, I think I will get there because I think there's a lot of value. Yeah. Well, and yeah, you can bring in some, you add in value in terms of your thought leadership and like you're saying. I mean, if you went to go create a newsletter, what I do like about LinkedIn is it sends a notification to all of your followers. Like, hey, so and so just created a newsletter. Would you like to subscribe? So you're instantly getting a mass push from LinkedIn. And that sit that comes through your inbox differently than if it was an email. And then second to that every week or whatever cadence you subscribe to, when you post a new newsletter, your followers get notified as well. And so I do believe it's an underutilized strategy. So I would encourage you to like, to lean into that since you are so active on LinkedIn. But for anybody listening, you know, maybe you don't love the camera. Maybe YouTube is not your jam. Maybe you're not on TikTok. And maybe you have some really good ideas and you want to put that into more long form content. LinkedIn really is an underutilized platform. I think there's still a lot of room to get in to be adding real value in conversations. Well, and let me be an example. We just got to talking about, you know, hey, you've never posted a video. I've never posted on LinkedIn newsletter, but I know the value. So it's like, how do you take that first step? How do you do that? And you want to know what? There's never going to be a perfect time. You just have to do it. And I started doing a realtor zoom monthly. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I've never done this. It's amazing when you do it once. How you're like, it's not so bad. You know, just give it a shot. You want to name it off. Yeah, and if you don't want to do it anymore, you don't. If you don't want to do the newsletter, don't. If you don't want to do the zoom, but at least you can try it and be like, oh, okay. And then get the feedback of you had it so much value. When I do my realtor emails, it's like, I had no idea. That's what this is about, community, education, and helping people with their businesses as well. So it's, I think, LinkedIn, newsletters. It's next on my list, key. Okay, one, so two more questions, this, for people listening and they're like, okay, she's on TikTok, she's on Instagram, she's on LinkedIn, she's everywhere. I'm just going to ask the direct question, do you have a big marketing team? Like, what is your kind of behind the curtains look like? No, so for me, it's me right now. So it's me and my thoughts and my canva, but one thing that I did do is I hired a VA. And no, and then does that mean like, do your marketing for you? So yes, I know she helps me with ideas, she's helped me kind of get organized. One thing that I do love about her is she'll get ideas going. So she might create four posts and I'll use one of them, but I wanna say 99.9% of the time I'm going in and I'm editing it, like, oh, I wanna change out this picture, what have you, this word, but she gets the ideas going. So I'll tell her, I'm thinking, you know, here's some things I'm thinking of, she'll send me some ideas, she'll just go posts that are like, make the posts and canva, but then I go put my spit on it. So she's helping really get like juices flowing and the thought, the creativity side, or I've had some things that I wanted to build, she's been so good at this. I'm like, I need a digital link for my clients to have like a buyer booklet. Like, I want them to be able to flip through the process and I don't want to attach PDFs. Hey, Rachelle, can you make this into an electronic version? Or maybe I'll say, hey, I've got this event coming up, can you make a flyer? So she's been able to take some things off of my plate, like uploading my podcast to YouTube was a huge feat. We had a hundred and some podcasts and so she was able to do that and then take clips and repurpose them for content. So again, it's not like she's like this marketing person that's designing everything, it's a collaborative effort of who's Kayla? What can Rachelle give lift on? Hey, can you help organize these things so that, you know, I'm not all over the place? And that's been a huge lift because sometimes it's just getting that creative idea going and she does it for me. But it probably also, you know that you're paying her every month. You're like, maybe it probably lights a little bit of a fire under you to be like, okay, I got to like do more, you know, to do that. So yeah, and it's true. I have to, you know, keep her busy because I am paying for her. But my gosh, the possibilities are endless of what I could do. But I'm in a season of life where I'm so busy that it's like you have to stop to take the time to give, you know, almost train somebody but it has been worth it. Yeah. So for everybody listening that's like, I don't have the time, you know, not that we don't need to follow Kayla's exact example. But what would you say to people that are like, I just don't know where to start. I don't have the time. Like what's the next thing that you would tell them? I would ask, you know, what is it that you want to do? What are your top three things? Maybe it is a newsletter. Maybe it is hosting a Realtor Zoom. Maybe it is doing a home buyer webinar when it comes to social media. One of the things that I did that got me kind of like, oh, this is a good idea, is I follow Lendercreat? I think this is how ideas for loan officers. I think coffee and contracts is one for Realtors. I've done stuff like punch the monkey like that. Yeah. I like, I got that idea to like do something with punch from like seeing that. So it's just like it takes, it's very trendy, but it gives ideas. But I would say get Canva, build out a few different templates that you can just switch out some pictures, go get some photos taken. Your photo from like 10 years ago, like go refresh it. If you're nervous to take photos, people see you every day. Like that's how you look. Like go take some fun photos. You know, take some B-roll, set up your camera, and just type and then put that on, you know, in Canva or a reel and just put some words over it. You know, you have to talk. So that's kind of what, how I started, or that's kind of what I do for filler, Katie's. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so busy this week. I'll send Michelle a video of me and be like, hey, can you create this about a first time home buyer and add these stories or reviews? Like, there's a lot you can do with just a B-roll and some photos, you know? Love me some B-roll. It has saved my bacon many days when I'm like, I don't have time. It's a good, yeah. I think in the cool part about the B-roll is, you know, you can do B-roll. And so for people listening that might be like, what is B-roll? But that's just taking a small, like an example would be like, if you're flying somewhere, like take a 10 second video of the picture outside your airplane and the clouds, or if you're going for a walk, like, you know, pan the pretty area that you're in or a sunset. So it's just background video that's not necessarily like talking head words, it's straight on. And again, as listeners, you've seen this, when you're scrolling in social media with, you know, it's words right and over that. So cool, well, we're gonna last and final question is if you could fix one thing about the mortgage industry, like overnight you had the magic wand and you could fix one thing. What do you think it would be at? What would it be? And what would it mean for the next generation of home buyers? Would a thousand percent say that I wish that I could wave my magic wand and people would stop rushing the process, meaning going and looking at homes and saying, I'm gonna wait for the perfect house to come out. Before I look at the finances, I wish that realtors wouldn't show houses until someone said I can afford it because it creates this sense of rushing and then they don't take the time to get educated. So many times I see people that do it the right way and they're confident and they're comfortable and they're excited and they understand it and they're getting a really great deal. And then when I see the ones that are just not taking the time, I see it fall to pieces, I see them get stressed and no one wants to deal with it, it's stressful enough to move, to buy a house. So I just wish that people would take their time. And that could just mean having a conversation, doing an application and then just waiting to go look at homes because so many times I've had to tell people on Friday of last week Katie had clients that want to write an offer and they're like, hey, is it pre-approved on? What can we do? They wanted to write an offer for 300. I could pre-approved them for $85,000. And they were crushed and they, you know, and that is the worst. And here's a deal, it's like, if we could just prepare, it's not a no, it's just a roadblock. How are we gonna get past this? To me, I just think that for the biggest purchase of your life, it's worth doing your homework before the night before it's due. That's what I would change. So, so good. Okay, I love it. Well, on that note, thank you for just your time. Thank you for popping and we will make sure to put all of the show notes in the bottom. So, for all of our listeners, you will know exactly how to go find Kayla. And what would you say? Like, you want them to send you a DM if they want to take this conversation any deeper? Yeah, a DM, my phone's out there, my email, whatever way is easiest for you. Yeah, I don't miss my DM, so. So, shoot me a DM if you want to chat. I'm here in any capacity and if you want social media tips or talk mortgage or you're a home buyer maybe you just want to just have a new friend in the social media world, like Katie, I've never met you in person. I feel like I already know you. Yeah, that's awesome. Very cool, thank you guys for listening. That we will be back next week with another episode. So, make sure to follow along and we'll be back next week. Thanks, Katie.